Montreal (Quebec) General discussion

[CosmicJobFocus]

Hi All,

I believe we need a specific general discussion place for the people of the Montreal area. General discussion is fun because anything goes. Sometime people might have something to say and they don`t know where to say it. They are wondering if it is the appropriate forum.

For example I feel l would like to talk about meeting. I believe networking is important. However it is difficult to talk about it without any feedback.

The question I ask are :

1) Is it relevant to have meeting once in a while?

2) what do you think about the frequency ; 1, 2, 4, 6 or 12 time a year?

3) Where should the meeting took place?

I believe meeting is good for the ground crew to strive and grow. I am going through the thread "Montreal Quebec survival community" and see what can be done differently so that the networking can continue to grow.

[NorthernSanctuary]

Hi ,

It's hard to say how often we need to meet. We can meet when there is interest or issues to discuss (we can decide at the end of a meeting), or we can have a scheduled interval, and cancel if there are no issues to discuss.

Depending on how events unfold, we may already be running a bit short on preparation time if changes happen sooner rather than later. If we can get interested people's input/opinion on what they want to discuss or get done, we get get an agenda for each upcoming meeting. (I think we should meet at least once a month initially, or as needed). We can ask new people what their interest is when they first join.

I'm interested to work with people in creating a RZ community/ fellowship, so would be interested in resolving issues and agreement to get this going. Some of the people expressed interest in taking a look at the land I have up north, so I'm proposing Sat. May 23 if the weather is good, otherwise Sunday, the 24th. We would leave in the morning, and I would suggest the following tentative agenda:

1. A tour of the land
2. A "working" lunch in St. Agathe to discuss,
get people's feedback, next step, etc.

People can let me know if they are interested, so we can co-ordinate on leaving together.

/Wayne
wayne49s@gmail.com

[Cosmic Dancer]

I like the idea of meeting as soon as possible, as I too believe that time is of the essence and it would serve us all if we could get together and discuss our intentions and then decide on the frequency of regular ongoing meetings going forward. I would love to be a part of a growing, committed Montreal ground crew. It would be great to assemble interested parties, clearly define our mission and put in place regular meetings to develop our vision and actualize our collective plans. I believe that much can be accomplished with organized effort focused on the goal. I, for one, am willing to do my part and contribute as much as I can to make this a reality!

NorthernSanctuary's tentative agenda sounds great. I would like to attend the trip up North on May 23 or 24th (weather permitting) including the tour of the land and the working lunch.

I hope this information will reach all potentially interested parties!

:original:

[CosmicJobFocus]

Hi ground crew disciple,

I am working on rescheduling appointment to be part of the trip and meeting.

[NorthernSanctuary]

I got a message from a guest that used to be on the forum that is also interested to go up north for the tour/ mtg. She also offered to let us use her place for future meetings. Her message is as follows:

..most definitely would love to go May 23 or 24, but will have to go with my family (kids 7 and 8 and no baby sitter (bummer) and hubby) because I can't drive, I have a stupid frozen shoulder. If this too much for you to put up, please say so, no offense will be taken.

...I wondered why you thought I was being generous by offering my house for meetings...then I realized the different concept of what a home is this side of the pond. Home, for North Americans is the safe haven, the cocoon, the refuge from the outside world, but for us Europeans is where we live and where we receive guests, and ringing someone's doorbell unannounced is NOT a major "faux pas"!

So I reiterate my invitation, (did I tell you I'm a very good cook?), the house is not very big but the back yard is huge for Montreal standards and we have a WOOD barbecue and many trees. Please tell the others.

I'll look at the posts for further instructions, if you don't object us going in such a big numbers, and will keep in touch.

Thank you once again

Susana

I don't have a problem if you bring your family.

Best Regard,
Wayne

[sunflower]

Hi Wayne, my husband and I are interested in taking part in this activity. I have mentioned this opportunity to friends of ours and will see if they are able to join us. Will get back to you with definite answers.

[NorthernSanctuary]

Hi CosmicJobFocus, Sunflower, glad to see you can make it; hope to meet your friends, Sunflower.

I got an email from Julien, a person from the very first Montreal meeting that well be there also. Here's his email:

Hi Wayne,

How are you? Do you remember me ? We meet in the first Montreal Avalon Community Meeting, this past autumn. The young man with black hair, dark eyes who referes himself as a truth seeker?
Oh, I just remember that I did send you an email not too long ago, telling you I was interested with your project of Self-Sufficient Communauty.

Anyway, I didn't subscribe to the Avalon but I want you to know that I still follow a bit of what's going on there and I'm following the recent threats on Montreal as well.
My personnal situation has changed considerably the last few months and I think I will have a lot of free weekends to work on personal projects for the rest of the year.

I'm reading that you are planning a meeting for the next weekend 23 or 24 may.
I'm free next weekend and you can count on me to be there.

So I guess we will discuss everything that day.
I will follow instructions written on the forum threat for the meeting.


Best regards and thank you,

Julien

It'll be good to see you again, Julien.

Best Regard,
Wayne

[ovsalf]

Given that some people from the Montreal area ground crew have shown a real interest in shortly organising a meeting and given that they have also manifested the wish to visit NorthernSantuary’s land in the Laurentians, a new thread has been created under: "Montreal (Quebec) Radiant Zone mtg (May23/24)" (see http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13929)

I would then suggest using this new thread as way to discuss the logistic and preparation for the land tour of this potential Radiant Zone.

[NorthernSanctuary]

An Avalon friend gave me this reference for eco-villages across the globe. This is a good reference for people's experience and can be used for ideas and guides to structure a community. Topics to discuss.


http://www.ecovillage.org/

[Cosmic Dancer]

I am interested in finding fresh locally grown organic food in and around the Montreal area. I'm used to buying my organic food from a Health food store but most of the time it's shipped in from elesewhere...

Does anyone have any specific places to suggest? I'd be grateful to learn of nearby organic farms or a farmer's market that sells organic certified produce?

--CD

[sunflower]

Hi Cosmic Dancer, the following link may not be exactly what you are looking for but it does provide a list of organic farms in our area.

http://www.equiterre.org/en/agriculture/paniersBios/index.php

Equiterre is an organization that provides information on organic farms so that the consumer can choose a farm in the area where he lives. He pays a share of the farmer's crops at the beginning of the season. From June thru September a weekly basket of organic vegetables is delivered to a convenient drop off point near his home.

We have decided to try that system out this year for the first time. We are aware that the first couple of baskets will be limited to fast growing crops. And we also know that we have no choice in what is being provided each week. I guess I'll be getting some vegetables I might have been avoiding until now:original:

[Cosmic Dancer]

Thanks so much Sunflower!

I appreciate your suggestion. It sounds like an interesting system... I have lots of questions so I will check out the site more thoroughly as soon as I have time and see if it would be feasable for me.

In the meantime, I hope these surprise baskets work out well for you this summer.

[NorthernSanctuary]

Hi all,

We have to keep moving forward. People can bring up topics for the next meeting. I can prepare a presentation on the proposed community center project in terms of the goal, project process, financing, etc. for discussion. We can also bring other topics related to energy production.

Please give me feedback on who can attend and dates/time. Let me know who can attend on Sat and/or Sunday (June 13/14). What about after lunch, say 2:00pm. If people want to shop, maybe Sunday is better.


/NS

[CosmicJobFocus]

Hi NorthernSanctuary,

I would be available for Sunday 14.

If Saturday is chosen, I will see what I can do because I really want to be there.

I also agree with the afternoon timing.

[GaiaLove]

Hi all

NS: whereabouts?

[NorthernSanctuary]

Hi GaiaLove, It'll be in town. Let me check and post it after.

[ovsalf]

Hi all,

In order to continue the discussion regarding the meeting planned for the weekend June 13/14, I have created a new forum thread called "Montreal Radiant Zone mtg (June 13/14)" in the Canada forum heading.

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?p=142984#post142984

Ovsalf

[NorthernSanctuary]

Here's some info for green houses to give an idea of the kit costs. The cost is from $20-30 per sq. ft for the traditional onces, rated at 80 mph (not 4 seasons):

http://www.canadagreenhouses.com/


Geodesic kits for 4 seasons:

$20-$25 per sq. ft US

http://www.geodesic-greenhouse-kits.com/sizes.php

The 4 seasons don't seem to be much more expensive. They have an insulation value from 1.8 to 3 and heat storage from the sun during the day.
To minimise cost and also the issue of heat retention, this can be integrated into a living structure for a circular type building with a "greenhouse" cover over an interior court area. Another smaller structure alternative is the "earthship" structure where the front is used as a greenhouse.

[Cosmic Dancer]

Hi there!

I would be delighted to attend the next meeting proposed by Northern Santuary. My preference would be to meet in the afternoon (2 pm) on Sunday, June 14. However, if most prefer the Saturday, I'd be willing to rearrange my schedule in order to attend.

I'll be looking to find out more details as they develop...

I'm also posting this reply on the thread called "Montreal Radiant Zone mtg (June 13/14)".

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?p=143357#post143357

[ovsalf]

I have read much of the documentation about the 4-season greenhouse and it seems very appealing in the context of creating a self-sufficient radiant zone community in the Laurentian area.

Ovsalf

[NorthernSanctuary]

I have read much of the documentation about the 4-season greenhouse and it seems very appealing in the context of creating a self-sufficient radiant zone community in the Laurentian area.

It has useful information. The cost can be reduced quite a bit if we build it ourselves. The plastic covering is only about $5-6 per sq. feet. A heat resevoir in the ground can keep the plants warm enough during night. There is a lot of information to built geodesic domes, and it is possible to build them stronger then shown in these kits (up to 200 mph resistance for the frame). Another possible alternative is to disassemble them before the winds come.

[GaiaLove]

Bonjour a tout: Please join the Avalon Social Group for Montreal.

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/group.php?groupid=76

[NorthernSanctuary]

Hi all,

I got this site of a sustainable building complex being built in Montreal. It's functionally similar to what we are looking for, but the price is from $200 per sq. ft and up. The link is:

http://www.productivehouse.com/overview/index.php

I'll be interested in the sizes of the units people are interested in. Anyone interested in participating in the community center, can you give me an idea of the size of the unit you are looking for, and the price range (either in price per sq. feet or total price). You can PM me if you like.

The difference in our case is :
1. We are building for a different scenario, and actually want a stronger building, also nothing more than 2 stories. this raises the cost.

2. The land cost is a lot cheaper.

3. I think we want more community areas. Let me know if I'm wrong.

4. We need to be totally self sufficient, in energy and food (both of these raises the cost persq. feet compared to the link).

5. We need to build this ourselves at a much cheaper cost.


/NS

[NorthernSanctuary]

Here's some other considerations in looking at unit size. Consider that we can have a common dining area, lounge, library, bunker, exercise area, so the smallest size can be 1 bedroom. Anything above that is up to you according to your situation, needs, finances. Let me know if you want 2 stories for the larger size (to have a private basement area).

i'm looking at an integrated green house as well as an outside greenhouse, circular design, bermed into a slope.

[NorthernSanctuary]

Here's a model for a future community that is a bit more lean, but closer to our ideas. We can build with more comfort, but not as costly as the Montreal link example.

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14786

[Cosmic Dancer]

Hi NorthernSantuary,

I've briefly looked at the sites you mentioned. They both offer good ideas that we can explore and discuss.
The Eco-Logistics on the Productive House site describe great green design innovations. The Tamera site presents an ideal in so many ways. Their philosophy and way of life has much to be learned from.

Although there are differences (as you mentioned) in our specific intention for the community, their ideas and implementation for sustainable living can contribute much to the planning of our project.

I will explore both sides a bit further and give more input as we go along.

[NorthernSanctuary]

Here's a new presentation I posted (scroll down) by Ivon that's interesting. The last video (part 16) shows the new equator after the shift, and the Laurentians go right through the equator.

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12271&page=2

[mudra]

YouTube - Hopi message from Elders

Your project is blessed NorthernSanctuary.
There is no other way to go but through togetherness and unity.
I admire your strengh and dedication in opening that path.

Kindness
mudra

[NorthernSanctuary]

Hi Mudra,

Your thoughts and encouragement are appreciated; your own dedication is much recognized by all. The video expresses the way forward very well and the message is an important one that we must all heed in these times.:original:

Love and Light to you,
/NS

[NorthernSanctuary]

Hi all,

I've sent a draft of the new center design to the people that have been involved in the last mtgs and can have a tentative bill of material to discuss for the next mtg.

If we want to start building this year, we'll have to breakground in August. So we need to assess if this is possible. Who is available to mtg for this coming weekend ? Can you post or pm me. As mentioned before, if some people are not available, we'll send the minutes by e-mail.

/NS

[Cosmic Dancer]

Hi NS,

I'm available this weekend, either Saturday, July 3 or Sunday, July 4, preferably in the afternoon. I'm still working on finding a meeting place, however if none can be confirmed by this weekend we can always meet at a restaurant or coffee shop.

With much anticipation,
--CD

[CosmicJobFocus]

Hi All,

I would be available for Sunday. If Saturday is chosen I will see what i can do. Have we find a local yet?

[NorthernSanctuary]

Hi CosmicJobFocus,

It looks like it'll be Sunday then. Cosmic Dancer found a place, but if it is only a few people, maybe a simpler solution is easier. I'll let Cosmic Dancer decide later on in the week when we know how many people are available.

/NS

[NorthernSanctuary]

I posted a new thread for the July 5 mtg .

[NorthernSanctuary]

hi all,

I'm giving a presentation on the RZ community at a gathering that anyone interested in RZ may attend on Aug. 22, Sat morning. It's co-sponsored with the Edgar Cayce group in Canada. The information is at the following link (early registration is pushed back to July 15, I believe):

http://www.creativeawakening.com/creativeawakening/Weekend_Workshopa.html

/NS

[NorthernSanctuary]

Here's info for legal structures with references for Quebec :


The website is: www.canlii.org (quebec civil law)

We did some preliminary investigation into the legal structure for communal ownership. Here's some general info (people will need to consult a lawyer for their own legal laws if interested);

1. Divided ownership (article 1038 +)
2. Undivided ownership (article 1012, 1014)
3. Leasing (article 1892)
4. Owning shares through a company

For 1: This is the condo concept. There is real (private) ownership for some parts of the building. Typically there is an owners agreement for the common parts. There is a legal entity that is created (syndicate in Quebec) and published in a register. The agreement needs to be published to be applicable to 3rd parties (a potential buyer).

For 2: This is ownership as a percentage of the whole building. A separate agreement is required for the owners, and should be registered and published. Restrictions on selling may be part of the agreement.

For 3: This is not so attractive or applicable as there is a concept of landlord and tenant, and the requirements of the landlord responsibilities to the tenant.

For 4: Was told that a good shareholders agreement would easily cost in excess of $10,000, so forget it.

Conclusion: At this point, before consulting a lawyer, it looks like the undivided ownership is the most applicable and most easy.

[NorthernSanctuary]

Here's a picture from the get together at the Edgar Cayce conference a few weeks ago: From left, Jim (Sunflower's husband), Sunfower, Cosmic Dancer and me). A nice conference of 40-50 people, met some old friends. The audience asked a lot of questions, and I did not finish the presentation within the allotted 75 minutes. It was an enjoyable day, with spiritual teachings and some nice messages.

http://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=de90bcb3e7&view=att&th=12351bc430c8492b&attid=0.1&disp=inline&zw

[NorthernSanctuary]

Cosmic Dancer and I took a visit to a local commercial aquaponics company. His operation was quite impressive. In a greenhouse of 40' X 200', he was growing 40,000 lettuce plants and farming rainbow trouts (17 inch size), with product shipments on a weekly basis. The system looked pretty complex with computer control of the total environment from temp, humidity, and had separate hydroponic and fish tank control to maximize production.

The owner is available for design of a custom system or consulting. We would not need such an optimized system, so could be simpler, and grow different vegetable varieties. His website is at:

http://www.cultures-aquaponiques.com/

[NorthernSanctuary]

Hi,

It's be a while since I've posted any news on our community activities. There's been a lot of activities, so here's a quick update:

1. Presently we have a core group of 3 working full time involved in the community development activities.

2. We've been involved with discussions with the local town municipality as part of the process to obtain a building permit to start construction in the spring when the snow melts. We will need the town council to approve the project, so this process will take some time, as the council will not reconvene until after the holidays.

3. We went to the first conference on Quebec eco-communities where Diane Leafe Christian was the keynote speaker and the event also marked the first directory for such communities in Canada. There were from 175-200 participants present and the energies were very good. The overall impression was that there are a lot of local interest in eco-communities, but that the whole movement is in the early stages and there is a lot of work to be recognized to help such communities to be created (political and municipal recognition for such structures). Most of the people there were not so focused on the 2012 issues, but we got some interest from some people to join our community and have a follow up interview this weekend. Also the organisers want to form an inter-community group and we have expressed our interest to participate.

4. As far as promoting and recruiting members, we have placed our community information in a number of directories, and have got queries internationally from Europe and elsewhere, as well from some people we met from the Edgar Cayce conference last summer and local friends. i got a request to present 2012 information (as a result of the movie 2012 buzz) and possibly a follow up talk on preparation at my previous employer.

5. We are also working on our website. It has been delayed by the other activities, but we are making progress on it.

6. Just as a note of interest to a lot of people on this forum, i'm aware of a local developed product that will be coming out next year that will provide an "unlimited" source of energy via cold fusion.

7. There has been much synchronistic experiences that we've had, from getting tickets to the above conference after it was sold out, to meeting the proper people that have contributed to helping the community creation effort. It's really amazing to see so much local interest for community creation in this province.