The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay

[historycircus]

I have just read the post announcing Avalon's change to subscription, and like many here I will no longer be able to post when that change goes into effect. I understand the decision, and thank the Avalon PTB for the brief, yet worthwhile opportunity to engage others on the important issues that concern us all.

I started this thread to say goodbye to some of the good people here - friends I hope I see eventually on the other side - and for others who cannot subscribe to post their own fare-the-wells.

It has been fun, and you all be good.

Cheers :cheers:

[Karen]

If you cannot afford the minimal option of $1 per month, there will be other options available. Some members will gift in those who cannot pay. You could help out the project in some way. Just let us know ... post a Private Message to me or post here if you would like to find an option to stay.

The only limit is the lack of imagination to pursue solutions. We will do what is possible for those who want to stay.

For those who are leaving based on philosophical objections, without some income, Bill and Kerry will not be able to continue their work. This subscription fee is just one of many ideas, but others will take more time to implement.

Brainstorming ideas is encouraged. Please do not be disparaged or disparaging.

Karen

[Ampgod]

I propose PC be kept entirely separate form PA forum.
If you need money for your interviews/traveling and such then state that on PC.
If people don't give money for PC Interviews etc. support...then it shall stop.
Don’t make PA pay for PC’s lack of income.

This forum should remain, in my personal opinion, free and open to all.

[MAP]

can someone post a link to where they have announced they are now charging to belong to the site?

[firefly]

Well I'm sorry that some members do not feel that the information here on this forum is not worthy of $60 per year. I am on a small government pension but I would be happy to forgo a small luxury to obtain information that will only be available to me through a forum such as this because our government will be imposing strict access to any controversial websites. So I will be relying on the members here to inform me of info that I will not be able to obtain after January 09.

Perhaps if all those who can afford to subscribe paid an additional $12 per year they could pay for one more member that is not able to pay for themselves. I for one would be happy to do so.

Blessings to All

Love and friendship

firefly

[Reunite]

can someone post a link to where they have announced they are now charging to belong to the site?

http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?p=82584#post82584

[GregorArturo]

I don't work and go to school full time, supported by my parents. I walk everywhere and try to survive on a meal a day. My only money goes to food, and food alone. I treat myself to the occasional drink out at a bar or coffee shop when it comes to discussing philosophy. So unless someone 'gifts' me membership or this subscription does not come to manifestation, I shall leave. I am very adamant about all knowledge being open source and free, even though our current economical structure begs to differ. I understand Bill and Kerry are working out of their own pockets, however, in reference to times like these, I would put freedom of access [to information] over support of more and new information. I think Avalon alone has divulged more information than Bill and Kerry [with Project Camelot] have this fall alone (and I say that in the most positive respects) in terms of the information and networking I have gained from Project Avalon.

As I said in an earlier post, action and physical networking has surpassed that of the amassing of knowledge. We must begin to act versus standing and watching.

As with the ancient Chinese proverb, "To know and not to do, is not to know." This is the era that has recently falling upon us [with the sixth day of the Mayan calendar].

I honestly feel Bill and Kerry should stress donations and maybe have some kind of fundraiser. I think there are better options out there than this.

I feel I have gained sufficient ground with networking already, and can easily be on my way. However, I feel I will lose out on the sharing of my research and theoretical concepts. Hopefully, I can get someone to host me a website (as I recently did not renew mine due to finances, and something else that seemed more of a luxury than a necessity), which I might try to get through my university.

Namaste.

[Rebel4Life]

I propose PC be kept entirely separate form PA forum.
If you need money for your interviews/traveling and such then state that on PC.
If people don't give money for PC Interviews etc. support...then it shall stop.
Don’t make PA pay for PC’s lack of income.

This forum should remain, in my personal opinion, free and open to all.

Dito.

[Karen]

Gregor, I will put you on the list for a donated membership. I think everyone that wants to be included here can still have posting access. And yes, we will consider other options. Your ideas are noted, as will be the ideas that everyone here presents. Who wants
to organize a fund raiser?

[Reunite]

I too will be leaving when the subscription service is introduced in a weeks time as per Kerry's announcement. It has nothing to do with the affordability but on the principle of restricting free speech to be heard through monetary means. Now we don't have a choice to network and exchange resources amongst ourselves unless we pay with $$$ to conform with the owners idealogy saddens me.

I want to say a big thanks and goodbye to all the friends I have manifested over the last months and will be sticking to the Mass Consciousness Coalition schedule. Friends start networking face to face in your local area today as the main goal here was to share and exchange information to direct our energy towards a positive future together without limited constraints ie being controlled by money.

Money will dictate and hold souls in restraint as long as the corrupt system is in place.

I think not listening to 77% of their supporters suggesting other means to generate an income is career suicide, in saying that I wish Bill & Kerry all the best of luck in the future.

A warm thank you to all the mods who have invested alot of time and energy into the forum with no pay, you guys are truely gems in disguise.

See you on the other side :original:

[Myra]

Gregor, I will put you on the list for a donated membership. I think everyone that wants to be included here can still have posting access. And yes, we will consider other options. Your ideas are noted, as will be the ideas that everyone here presents. Who wants
to organize a fund raiser?

Karen, please put me on a list for donated membership.

I too am unable to pay for a subscription albeit a small one. I am out of work and my husband, my daughter, and I are struggling and we have no assets to sell. We have been behind on utility bills and have yet to come up with the money to fix our car so we can have it smogged and registered, among other things etc. etc. I won't go on. I'm not trying to get sympathy, it just is what it is.

[SoulSuspect]

Well seeing as I wont be paying for the new forum. Which makes sense by the way I do think you should charge for it if you cant afford it, im not a hater. I just wanted to say GoodBye To Avalon its was pretty rad! When exactly does the forum start charging by the way and if I suddenly change my mind and become a paying member will you guys still edit as many posts as you already have or will there be more freedom due to the fact that one is a paying member?

[bluestix]

As much as I hate to say it, advertising is probably the more lucrative way to go.

With a subscription forum you will probably make ~$2000/yr if you are lucky.

With advertising on a site that has ~1M page views a month you can expect >$3K/month in revenue.

You also don't severely limit the amount of content on the site.

[bluestix]

As much as I hate to say it, advertising is probably the more lucrative way to go.




Bill Hicks on Marketing, from his 1990's standup routine Revelations. Transcripts from here and here, reformatted to my taste. Official Bill Hicks site here.

-----

By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself.

No, no, no it's just a little thought. I'm just trying to plant seeds. Maybe one day, they'll take root - I don't know. You try, you do what you can. Kill yourself.

Seriously though, if you are, do.

Aaah, no really, there's no rationalization for what you do and you are Satan's little helpers. Okay - kill yourself - seriously. You are the ruiner of all things good, seriously. No this is not a joke, you're going, "there's going to be a joke coming," there's no ******* joke coming. You are Satan's spawn filling the world with bile and garbage. You are ****** and you are ******* us. Kill yourself. It's the only way to save your ******* soul, kill yourself.

Planting seeds. I know all the marketing people are going, "he's doing a joke..." there's no joke here whatsoever. Suck a tail-pipe, ******* hang yourself, borrow a gun from a Yank friend - I don't care how you do it. Rid the world of your evil ******* makinations. Machi... Whatever, you know what I mean.

I know what all the marketing people are thinking right now too, "Oh, you know what Bill's doing, he's going for that anti-marketing dollar. That's a good market, he's very smart."

Oh man, I am not doing that. You ******* evil scumbags!

"Ooh, you know what Bill's doing now, he's going for the righteous indignation dollar. That's a big dollar. A lot of people are feeling that indignation. We've done research - huge market. He's doing a good thing."

Godammit, I'm not doing that, you scum-bags! Quit putting a godamm dollar sign on every ******* thing on this planet!

"Ooh, the anger dollar. Huge. Huge in times of recession. Giant market, Bill's very bright to do that."

God, I'm just caught in a ******* web.

"Ooh the trapped dollar, big dollar, huge dollar. Good market - look at our research. We see that many people feel trapped. If we play to that and then separate them into the trapped dollar..."

How do you live like that? And I bet you sleep like ******* babies at night, don't you?

"What didya do today honey?"

"Oh, we made ah, we made ah arsenic a childhood food now, goodnight." [snores] "Yeah we just said you know is your baby really too loud? You know?" [snores] "Yeah, you know the mums will love it." [snores]

Sleep like ******* children, don't ya, this is your world isn't it?

[watchZEITGEISTnow]

I don't really mind paying a small fee, but my issue is with how you pay, and then your anonymity has gone, and even though it will only goto PC/PA I don't like the idea of paypal having these details which can be passed onto third parties, such as those that may use this as a form of databasing.

So I will still read the posts here, but just not be able to post... which is ok I guess.

My thoughts anyway.

:)

wZn

[Karen]

I don't really mind paying a small fee, but my issue is with how you pay, and then your anonymity has gone, and even though it will only goto PC/PA I don't like the idea of paypal having these details which can be passed onto third parties, such as those that may use this as a form of databasing. So I will still read the posts here, but just not be able to post... which is ok I guess.

There will be options other than paypal for payment. And there are options other than paying in the first place. PM me if interested. Karen

[Dusty Nothing]

It's a pretty sad thing, I won't be able to afford to post anymore.
ah well, should be used to these kind of things happening by now

I think you should definatly consider having at least just one advertisement on the forum, that alone would make some money, most forums or any concept infact that changes to a subscription seems to fail inevitabley, route of all evil n all.
I obviously don't want bill to start hocking doritos but maybe advertisements are a good idea, we see them all the time anyway, I've learnt not to pay attention whatsoever.

[Truther21]

Well it probably for the best.... soon enough I will shut down my internet anyhow, I have seen what I need to see. I know enough to survive.

Peace

[Undooz]

Stepping back and viewing this situation with a wider lens shows me that I've seen this before;
watched this kind of creative arc span from pertinent to banal on many projects of many different flavors.

The time it's taken to go from brilliant to consummate has varied but the rearing of the monetary horse
has seemingly throw nearly all the riders time and again.

The word 'subscription' is heavily loaded in the sense that it implies content released on a set schedule.
To be a 'member' of the body of offerings that Camelot and Avalon hold sounds far better than being a mere 'subscriber'.

A stark reminder that our words create worlds; choose them with care.

Having already begun to pull away from Avalon after the first few weeks of golden threads and drifting away from Camelot gradually
over the last few moons has given me the space in which to digest the wonderful things I've learned in that not so distant past.

Whatever paths you choose, the best to you always.

Undooz

[enacae]

Well I hate to go, but I just can't pay anything right now. Good luck and God speed to Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy. Love ya!:sad:

[Deoxyan]

asking for money is an error, period.

[Dantheman62]

This might sound kind of, well, I guess it doesn't matter how it sounds, but don't we have any wealthy members here? Can't somebody just throw in a large donation to help out those less fortunate! I know I would if I could, and if times were different, as in any other time but now, I'd throw in a few grand just to help and get that"feel good" feeling of knowing I helped out several thousand people! It doesn't matter if you agree with the subscription or not, the time to help is NOW so nobody has to leave.

[no caste]

I am NOT in favour of a paid subscription. The magic of this forum is its openness, diversity, inclusiveness... It's helped me in many ways, so many interesting perspectives - if one went missing it would be a loss.

So, Kerry and Bill, I would rather you postpone a decision. Solicit donations on Camelot. See what happens. Given this stark choice today, I would donate at least an annual subscription or 2 there, right away.

If in a month you see that members here are all talk and no action (i.e. no money comes into Camelot), then so be it. We knew your realities and we made a choice about it, i.e. did nothing. I figure we can't complain, at that time.

As far as merchandising goes, I feel the world has enough of it already. The only exceptions for me are music and books, which can run rampant any time. I'll probably buy your eBook. Knowledge should be open source, a growth industry.

I repeat: I am NOT in favour of a paid subscription.

[crowmirror]

This might sound kind of, well, I guess it doesn't matter how it sounds, but don't we have any wealthy members here? Can't somebody just throw in a large donation to help out those less fortunate! I know I would if I could, and if times were different, as in any other time but now, I'd throw in a few grand just to help and get that"feel good" feeling of knowing I helped out several thousand people! It doesn't matter if you agree with the subscription or not, the time to help is NOW so nobody has to leave.


as far as i know someone did offer to pay a whole years worth for everyone
and obviously it was turned down.:shocked:

[Dominic]

I am not going anywhere.


Spread the Love,

Not the fear.

[giovonni]

I have just read the post announcing Avalon's change to subscription, and like many here I will no longer be able to post when that change goes into effect. I understand the decision, and thank the Avalon PTB for the brief, yet worthwhile opportunity to engage others on the important issues that concern us all.

I started this thread to say goodbye to some of the good people here - friends I hope I see eventually on the other side - and for others who cannot subscribe to post their own fare-the-wells.

It has been fun, and you all be good.

Cheers :cheers:
My friend,
Please wait and see what options might be offered, in making it possible for you and others to remain. You have been very wise and insightful in your post. Too loss individuals (as yourself) would be truly sad. I hope this thread, will incite you to the importance of us staying together, as long as possible! I apologize and extend my belated but sincere friendship, My best gio

[Bill Ryan]

This might sound kind of, well, I guess it doesn't matter how it sounds, but don't we have any wealthy members here? Can't somebody just throw in a large donation to help out those less fortunate! I know I would if I could, and if times were different, as in any other time but now, I'd throw in a few grand just to help and get that"feel good" feeling of knowing I helped out several thousand people! It doesn't matter if you agree with the subscription or not, the time to help is NOW so nobody has to leave.

Hi, Folks:

Don't jump the gun here. We've been listening.

We're making options available for people to pay at various levels. The minimum subscription is $1 a month, - which is $12 per year, or the price of two hamburgers.

We're stating clearly that we would would prefer a payment of $5 (or more) per month, but this will be optional.

We will ALSO be adding an option for those members who are subscribing to sponsor (at $1 per month) any members they nominate who cannot afford it.

All the information will continue to be available on a read-only basis for those who prefer not to subscribe. (Two-thirds of the people who visit regularly to read the information on this forum are not members anyway.)

We've been using PayPal for two and a half years, and have never had one single security problem or any other difficulty. It does work very well. If it didn't, we would not use it.

The new structure will be in place fairly soon, but we don't yet know exactly when. We'll announce it as soon as we've implemented and tested the system so that we know it works.

What will happen is that on a certain day (probably sometime next week) members will come to log in and be directed to a new page where they have the option to register again and choose whether, how much, and how they want to pay - and if they want to nominate another person as well.

After a lot of thought (and reading everyone's comments and suggestions), this is absolutely the best system we can think of in order to be fair to all, ensure that everyone can benefit if they want to, and allow our work to continue.

We WILL be sorry to see anyone leave. At the cost of two hamburgers per year, we'd like to think that the scheme we've come up with is within the budget of almost everyone. It is of course entirely an individual decision whether or not this presents good value - but we suggest that it does!

Very best to all, Bill

[sleepingnomore]

Maybe you could consider selling T-shirts as advertising for the site.

[Bill Ryan]

Maybe you could consider selling T-shirts as advertising for the site.

Yes, we're going to do this too! We never realized quite how easy this was until one of the members (I'm afraid I can't remember who) recommended http://zazzle.com to us.

White and black, with these logos on them:

http://projectcamelot.org/cheetah_logo_red_sm.gif http://projectavalon.net/avalon_logo_sm.gif

Very best, Bill

[Anchor]

Well seeing as I wont be paying for the new forum. Which makes sense by the way I do think you should charge for it if you cant afford it, im not a hater. I just wanted to say GoodBye To Avalon its was pretty rad! When exactly does the forum start charging by the way and if I suddenly change my mind and become a paying member will you guys still edit as many posts as you already have or will there be more freedom due to the fact that one is a paying member?

Should you go down this path, you will be able to see the moderating style for yourself.

Lurking will be free as I understand the announcement.

A..

[Swanny]

I don't understand why you don't just put an advert at the top of the page?????
It would make good money and you wont lose the info that people are giving.
This site without the info input will be useless and people will go else where.
Maybe you will have a few people here posting but the majority will leave and move on to another forum which will then become more popular and draw even more people from here.
Please don't make it subscription I've seen forums die before :sad:
It's easy to ignore an advert but you can't ignore the lack of people input.
I'm self employed and my future is looking very grey at the moment, nothing booked in after this week so I need every penny I can get and definately can't afford $5 a month.

[Bill Ryan]

I'm self employed and my future is looking very grey at the moment, nothing booked in after this week so I need every penny I can get and definately can't afford $5 a month.

Hi, Swanny:

But can you afford $1 a month, which will be the minimum for those on low incomes?

That's $12 a year... or (as I said earlier) the price of two hamburgers. Or one movie ticket... or three Starbucks coffees. :)

Very best wishes, Bill

[henners]

i personally agree money is needed. to run this site. Why not wait and see just how it works and who will contribute. I like what i see and will be staying. I do not have great expenses (appart from a mortgage), and no big vices so 60 bucks a year sounds OK.

One less coffee a week i can do without.:cup:

[SoldierOfTruth808]

All the information will continue to be available on a read-only basis for those who prefer not to subscribe. (Two-thirds of the people who visit regularly to read the information on this forum are not members anyway.)

This is good, at least itll weed out all the nutcases who are making this site into a ***** heap. Unless they are willing to pay to spit nonsense... though I imagine if the agenda is big enough that they would pay to spread it.

I for one will join the lurkers... not that it matters. Im not one who contributes any profound knowledge. I just want to be within informations grasp when its time to act. I dont want to debate, I dont want to pat anyone on the back or have anyone pat me on the back. I already know that people with like minds exsist and thats good enough for me. All I have to do is open my eyes and look around at this point and all the answer will unfold. Besides Camelot is a good enough resource as it is. Playing "whos the mole" on this forum is pointless and tired.

See you... but you wont see me,
Roland K

[Bobcat]

two hamburgers from thousands of sheepeople is alot of hamburgers for you isnt it?

Cya all.

Good luck everyone

Kindest regards

Bobcat

[Dean Plejaren]

Very few forums charge to post stuff. This will upset everything at the forum. Cut communication off with people. All that just for 30,000 extra a year. Doesn't seem worth it just give up the Australian Ark bunker or something.

Sell books or DVDs. T-shirts anything but charge people to communicate on here as communication is the most important thing.

[Harper]

Bill, Kerry & Moderators,

There is a deeper problem with paying that you may not have considered its that people will no longer know what they are buying, if, and I don't believe you can, guarantee that the amount of information and exchange on the forum will remain the same then I think its our first lesson in pulling together and helping others who cannot pay. I will pay for myself and 2 others. I have just lost my job but I can still afford that amount of money once a year. If I find I can't I'm in way bigger trouble and have a lot more problems than being able to post on an important forum :-)

So how will you solve the problem of people knowing what they are now buying, if you introduce this fee and I come on the forum to see one that only 1 person has posted that day what value will I get? Not being an oracle myself I can only offer my ideas but not mathematical genius, or years of scholarship on the bible, or insider information of UFO etc...... Do you follow?

Why don't you try the t-shirts first because not only is it a money maker but think what if I see someone I know or even don't know wearing one, I would go straight up to them and have a chat about what's going on. I would actually know that at the very least, whether we agree or not that we are both seekers and it could have a huge bi-product effect of enabling relationships. I am however not a person who is afraid for my life or anything so annonimity is not an issue, they know who I am or they don't, what will be will be..........

Any thoughts?

PS I will stand by the above mentioned offer for myself and 2 others.

[norman]

as far as i know someone did offer to pay a whole years worth for everyone
and obviously it was turned down.:shocked:


Yes I'd noticed it too but I'm not going to get flustered about it. Well not yet anyway.

What I do want to stress is this:

When this forum splits into posters and lurkers it will effectively become a one-way channel. For one thing, local networking will be handicapped. On the 'good' side, with less and narrow banded posters it will become a quicker and easier read here.

I'd appreciate it greatly if the people who 'stay' would adjust their language and methods to compensate for the one sided nature of the Avalon experience. There will be a lot of people who may want to check and clarify things but they won't be able to. Heck, even the BBC has a website with two way com's now!

If I was in B&K's position I would be well freaked out about what I was going to do about money (other than get jobs). I understand their problem. I'm not sure this subscription idea is going to do much to solve it though. If it was a political party we'd probably complain about large donations. It's a tough call.

If I don't 'stay', and it looks like I won't, I'll be looking for you all on other forums. These wacky ID's and avatars that people use make it harder to do that but hopefully we can establish 2 way coms by supplementary means.

We've got a few more days yet so it's probably too soon to be saying goodbye.

:sad:

[capreycorn]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515/weezethejuice/useless_balloons.gif

subscription fees won`t bring lots of money, selling t-shirts also not.
advertising sounds good but...(projectavalon powered by ??? monsanto? might not look good to some); or wouldn`t a merger with some other community do the trick - what is with St. Clair?
:zip:

[Antaletriangle]

Hello there,I'm just 'subscribing' to this thread-to show my state of play in affairs-i shall have to leave the forum as i am unemployed like a few have already mentioned-i can't afford my own website to try and make some living from my photography as i'm unable to market my work through the net-i suppose my work's not good enough to sell anyway;that's another issue but i am stretched with finances here-i look after my mum at home who's unwell,this is why i spend alot of time on here!!lol.I have been trying to get out and get some more shots but it is difficult in not leaving my mum for too long-so it's ver y hard and now i find i will have to leave the forum,one of my only links with like minders-i realise i haven't posted much good stuff but have contributed from the outset,I'm even doing a wedding this weekend and not charging for this as the couple who are marrying are skint as i am but i look at it as helping them to start off in life and is better for my conscience in the long term-this you cannot put a price on!!
I don't wish to be subsidised or appear to scounge,and in my humble opinion this move to subscription is akin to showing who can and who can't afford to pay for free thinking.i am aware that Bill and Kerry need an income as we all do but i'm really struggling i hate to say but 'tis true-i still give what i an able-i could tell you some situations that i've been in!
Anyhow i don't wish to be put in a position of charity and thankyou for the flexibility but i don't think it right-if i can't be self sufficient then i am forced to leave-i may find somewhere else to call home;i wish to thank everyone for the support and criticism i have received it's all been processed in the development factory of my soul,
Cheers,Wayne,.A.t.
P.S. i forgot to say thankyou Bill and Kerry for starting the site and the forum-you'vebeen a piece in the jigsaw that's brought much enlightenment to us all.

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=17&pictureid=4814

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=17&pictureid=4408

[Skillet]

My wife has been unemployed since March of this year. I'm a straight commissioned sales rep in the light construction industry. I live in San Diego county, which has been hard hit by the housing crunch. Down 33% in the last year, with no new construction. BUT.............

I will be happy to pony up the modest $60. The information this site has provided is very critical to me, as well as my family. I have also made some new like minded friends, Whitecrow, and Rockyshorz, who I know I can count on when the SHTF. I have never paid for access to a web site before, but I will gladly for Project Avalon. Bill and Kerry thank you so much. Keep up the fantastic work!

Skillet

[Kahunamahalo]

Hi, Swanny:

But can you afford $1 a month, which will be the minimum for those on low incomes?

That's $12 a year... or (as I said earlier) the price of two hamburgers. Or one movie ticket... or three Starbucks coffees. :)

Very best wishes, Bill

Bill,
It's not the cost, it is the principle. This idea is wrong on so many levels. People are also suffering badly at this time from the economy and sometimes a hamburger is hard to come by. Goodbye.

[Ali Quadir]

Guess I'll be splitting guys.

I don't have the method to pay over the internet. I do have the means obviously. What's asked for is not much, I've given larger amounts (per gift) to vagrants. I've also donated to forums in the past. None of them however were subscription models. And it was always cash in hand to help out a friend.

I don't have a credit card or internet money account. I don't consider this forum enough of a benefit to me personally to go through the hassle and potential risks of getting them. I have asked Bill via pm about alternatives over a month ago when the first mention of money problems arose, but I've got no response so far. So I really have no options.

And to be honest, if I had options I'd have objections. People have suggested some very good alternatives and experts have made warnings and offered their advice for free. It's not good if their warnings are ignored. These are professionals for a reason.

I hope it works out for you. And thanks for the fun sofar!

[Bill Ryan]

Very few forums charge to post stuff. This will upset everything at the forum. Cut communication off with people. All that just for 30,000 extra a year. Doesn't seem worth it just give up the Australian Ark bunker or something.

Sell books or DVDs. T-shirts anything but charge people to communicate on here as communication is the most important thing.

Dean, see my reply to you in the ASK BILL AND KERRY thread here:

http://projectavalon.net/forum/showpost.php?p=82996&postcount=53

If it was not for Camelot's work, Avalon would not exist. All of Camelot's work is available for free. You can watch 100+ hours of videos (or listen to the audio, or read the transcripts) and not pay a cent. We agree: communication is the most important thing.

Very best wishes, Bill

[Bill Ryan]

Guess I'll be splitting guys.

I don't have the method to pay over the internet. I do have the means obviously. What's asked for is not much, I've given larger amounts (per gift) to vagrants. I've also donated to forums in the past. None of them however were subscription models. And it was always cash in hand to help out a friend.

I don't have a credit card or internet money account. I don't consider this forum enough of a benefit to me personally to go through the hassle and potential risks of getting them. I have asked Bill via pm about alternatives over a month ago when the first mention of money problems arose, but I've got no response so far. So I really have no options.

And to be honest, if I had options I'd have objections. People have suggested some very good alternatives and experts have made warnings and offered their advice for free. It's not good if their warnings are ignored. These are professionals for a reason.

I hope it works out for you. And thanks for the fun sofar!

Hi, Ali:

You'll be able to pay by money order or check if you like, and there'll be a generous period of grace while we wait for the payment to arrive. We won't be heavy about it.

We know some people don't have bank accounts. There's nothing to stop you being a member if you want to be one. You can even sponsor someone else who may not be able to afford it.

Some people posting on this thread, who are genuinely hard up, might appreciate it. If you did that, we would appreciate it too.

If I missed a PM, I do apologize. I 'm not often online for long periods, and e-mail is a better way to communicate as then we're able to pick up e-mails and then read and reply offline. We can't do that with PMs. Do please re-send, and copy to support@projectcamelot.org. Many thanks.

Very best wishes, Bill

[MAP]

*edit never mind about that offer I changed my mind sorry..

[Triaxis]

I was never a big poster here - mainly just posted some positive comments if i felt too much negativity really, even as a member i pretty much just lurked.

My two cents worth.

I understand why Kerry and Bill are doing this and fair enough. But i think they should have levels of membership. Those that don't donate should still be able to access the networking section, those that do donate can access everywhere else.

I live in Australia so i am pretty much just a bemused spectator from afar to all this stuff going down, thus i probably don't need to network really.

But our brothers and sisters on the "front lines" in the US and the UK that are poor could probably could make use of the networking section. Why not give them access to that section for free?

Anyway, thanks for allowing us to continue to lurk, read and watch for free. You cannot offer a fairer deal than that.

All the best. See you on the other side :)

Triaxis

[franciejones]

I support Bill and Kerry 100%

I absolutely WILL PAY to be here at Avalon. Most sites with video CHARGE people to watch their interviews or read articles. I am so GRATEFUL to Project Camelot. I do not remember how I found them BUT I assure all who read this, were it not for PC, I would never have waked from my zombie-like slumber. In my mind, Project Camelot and Project Avalon are sisters to each other..and if paying at Avalon will help support Camelot...then I would hope everyone would be willing to pay to help out.

I am also very excited to see when the T-shirts and much awaited DVD's will be available. (Do some baseball caps too if you can Bill!)I will be first in line for both! I have yet to get my family to watch their interviews as no one will sit in front of the computer to do it...with DVD's my family will greatly benefit!

Warmest Wishes-Francie Jones

[burgundia]

Since i can find here very interesting and valuable information I am not going to quit. However, it made me really sad and a bit surprised, that so many people ( especially in the US) can't afford $5 a month. I guess the situation there must be really bad. I myself will be able to pay that amount of money and perhaps I'll be able to "sponsor" another person from time to time. If sb needs help, let me know. I'm not going to save money for my retirement or any other purpose in the face of possible future disasters or what may soon become of money. And if the future appears to be a bliss maybe i won't need money at all.

[franciejones]

Since i can find here very interesting and valuable information I am not going to quit. However, it made me really sad and a bit surprised, that so many people ( especially in the US) can't afford $5 a month. I guess the situation there must be really bad. I myself will be able to pay that amount of money and perhaps I'll be able to "sponsor" another person from time to time. If sb needs help, let me know. I'm not going to save money for my retirement or any other purpose in the face of possible future disasters or what may soon become of money. And if the future appears to be a bliss maybe i won't need money at all.

Very good point burgundia! As an American, I can tell you from my own observation that people in this country (please don't throw a fit when I say this fellow Americans) always seem to want something for nothing. While some may in fact be having difficulty with money (myself included) --it is my opinion that many of the Americans here were "throwing a fit". Others seemed to be using the "fee issue" as a way to create drama or dissent. (dramatic goodbyes???) I know that I can certainly pinch $60.00 per year.....I can cut out fast food, frivolous driving, one less new pair of shoes per year...change my cable suhscription, air dry my clothes in the summer, get a cheaper haircut....the list could go on and on. To any who would PM me with angry retorts....please save it! If you are American, you will know that what I say is true. Truly destitute people do not even have internet service...so lets stop with all the silly posts about having to subscribe please :)

[voltron]

I admit that as a Hippie in the 70's I wanted everything to be free. Free food, free places to sleep and free drugs. And I actually kept that attitude up until five years ago. Now in my old age I am still working at entry level jobs even though having a college degree. I didn't support my wife and children as well as I should have. What I am saying is now I appreciate the efforts others have to go through to bring us products and services. I worked on web sites and I can tell you it is a lot of work. We pay for gas, food, clothing and housing. Would we expect our landlord to give us free housing because they should "love" us? Avalon is asking only $1 to $5 per month. That is only pennies per day. Think anyone literate enough to read this has expendable income in excess of that. Let's all get together and support something we believe in rathur than asking for a handout.

[piers2210]

I agree with Burgundia that it shocks me how many people would leave even if its only $1 a month, but i understand the reasons, which are not just money-related. So there HAS to be a way to fund the forum, even if it slightly compromises principles - the forum is too good to see it fail. T-shirt sales are a brilliant idea, but some form of marketing can't be too bad if monitored. And those members who contribute significantly should be given FREE MEMBERSHIP. I am a "lurker" so am happy to contribute (both to the forum and to PC) but I love to read the links etc and i have become so much more knowledgable about stuff i never knew about just a short time ago...and i spred the word like everyone else once i know something.
Bill & Kerry keep up the great work and best of luck with finding funding, but do be reasonable towards those who you know contribute/add to the forum's knowledge, and definately have a list of people who can be "sponsored" by others.

[Luminari]

I will be happy to suscribe and buy a t-shirt...

The sooner the whining whingers leave the better I say.. (though they will still be lurking in the shadows) I have been blown away by the amount of stupid comments and attention seeking that I have seen since this forum started and have wanted to leave myself rather than associate with such people.


Then there are the 'Beautiful People' :wub2:
Who make it all so worthwhile and truly magical to be a part of and give me such inspiration.

Thank you beautiful people and thank you Project Camelot

[MaskMarvl]

I understand the needs of Bill and Kerry... I for one, may or may not subscribe since I don't do very much posting myself.

I find it ridiculous and childish how some of the people here are saying "goodbye" and how they're "leaving" and "farewell", etc... If the can't pay (or simply don't want to) is no reason for "leaving" since all the information will still be available for FREE... (just not posting).

I also find their "excuses" very hard to believe. I'm pretty sure their internet access alone costs them a lot more than a $1 a month so, please don't come here with your "un-believeable" reasons for saying "good-bye" :nono:

Anyway, I apologize in advance if I've offended anyone with my comments above... :wub2:

Bill & Kerry... keep up the good work!

[GregorArturo]

Very good point burgundia! As an American, I can tell you from my own observation that people in this country (please don't throw a fit when I say this fellow Americans) always seem to want something for nothing. While some may in fact be having difficulty with money (myself included) --it is my opinion that many of the Americans here were "throwing a fit". Others seemed to be using the "fee issue" as a way to create drama or dissent. (dramatic goodbyes???) I know that I can certainly pinch $60.00 per year.....I can cut out fast food, frivolous driving, one less new pair of shoes per year...change my cable suhscription, air dry my clothes in the summer, get a cheaper haircut....the list could go on and on. To any who would PM me with angry retorts....please save it! If you are American, you will know that what I say is true. Truly destitute people do not even have internet service...so lets stop with all the silly posts about having to subscribe please :)

I just wanted to respond to this to explain my position, just to remind people of my "type" versus my brother's statement of me being a freeloader.

I live with my parents, I eat their food, and they pay for my schooling (which is heavily discounted as my dad teaches there). They are financially stable for the most part, and I help them out around the house, physically and emotionally. I cannot give up that extra pair of shoes or a movie ticket, because I do not partake in any of these conventional activities of purchases or entertainment. I really don't. I go to class, philosophize with friends and students, and go home, read and write. I treat myself to the occasional beverage which may happen once a week, and you could say that is the only luxury I ever engage in, and almost always someone is buying me the drink. I have nothing I can sacrifice in terms of exchange because I choose to live a simple life.

To connect with this idea, I had an amazing experience at a homeless shelter this September, as I joined an elderly man for dinner at our local soup kitchen (where I was treated negatively and assumed to be a 'druggie' simply due to my presence there). He was very intelligent and was an artist. We discussed in detail art, history, and culture. He travels the country, making art, and giving it away for free. He lives the most simple life style as possible as that is what he believes in and chooses. Is he a freeloader? Is he a druggie or chronic alcoholic? By no means. He may not be working for the capitalist agenda, but he surely is giving back to the world with his endless inspiration and kindness. He taught me an important lesson that is priceless and one can never buy.

My problem with money is the direct connection of it with material goods, material time. There is more to this material world :)

[shybastid]

Apology accepted MaskMarv,...

Oh wait , I was'nt offended

My bad..:wub2:


I think you wrapped it up pretty good tho.

Im so broke...I need a co-signer when I pay CASH:roll1:

Seriously... If I need to post..and most of my drible is'nt worth reading in the 1st place,Ill find a couple of bucks.
What I READ here is what I should be paying for anyway.

[GregorArturo]

I understand the needs of Bill and Kerry... I for one, may or may not subscribe since I don't do very much posting myself.

I find it ridiculous and childish how some of the people here are saying "goodbye" and how they're "leaving" and "farewell", etc... If the can't pay (or simply don't want to) is no reason for "leaving" since all the information will still be available for FREE... (just not posting).

I also find their "excuses" very hard to believe. I'm pretty sure their internet access alone costs them a lot more than a $1 a month so, please don't come here with your "un-believeable" reasons for saying "good-bye" :nono:

Anyway, I apologize in advance if I've offended anyone with my comments above... :wub2:

Bill & Kerry... keep up the good work!

It's not necessary childish. It's strategic. Look at the underlying pyschology with the statements. One may make such a statement as a last defense to change the course of things, not in terms of agreement. Including myself, because if I seriously had to put some cash out for this, I would most certainly leave. And that puts out the message, "Oh, Gregor is leaving. Bummer." And that can cause a chain reaction with Avalon members thinking "Hey don't let this happen Bill & Kerry! We'll be left with only Christian fundamentalists, fear mongerers, and cynical disinfo agents!"

There's always more to a literal message at hand.

[Antaletriangle]

I understand the needs of Bill and Kerry... I for one, may or may not subscribe since I don't do very much posting myself.

I find it ridiculous and childish how some of the people here are saying "goodbye" and how they're "leaving" and "farewell", etc... If the can't pay (or simply don't want to) is no reason for "leaving" since all the information will still be available for FREE... (just not posting).

I also find their "excuses" very hard to believe. I'm pretty sure their internet access alone costs them a lot more than a $1 a month so, please don't come here with your "un-believeable" reasons for saying "good-bye" :nono:

Anyway, I apologize in advance if I've offended anyone with my comments above... :wub2:

Bill & Kerry... keep up the good work!

It's not a matter of your quote:childish,goodbye etcetera,etcetera it's the moving of the goalposts-this started as a free posting and exchanging site,now there is a decision to charge no matter what the charge is,i'd have hoped that Bill and Kerry would have planned this a little better from the outset and mentioned it at the very start(as i can't remember if they did?).It's o.k. for some on here with money there are lots who are struggling and i mean struggling i could just afford my £10 a month server today and it's taken me overdrawn on my overdraft so i'll receive charges to the amount of £38 on next month's statement.
I offered to do designs or contribute in some way;i suppose but i am offering a way to help but when money enters the equation i get bad vibes- in my opinion we've all been talking about change and ascension/sharing/creating radiant zones and we're going backwards and playing the game of the bankers.I'd expect a charge on a music download site or similar because that's the nature of that beast.
This reply is nothing against anyone,please understand there are alot of people who are in unfortunate circumstances on here-i don't wish to be subsidised by anyone,i am no scrounger-i wish to contribute but placing a price on this to me seems a little unfair.I do most things if not everything for free-believe it or not YES i do even though i'm skint it has not stopped me from giving.

[DoctorTony]

I just wanted to respond to this to explain my position, just to remind people of my "type" versus my brother's statement of me being a freeloader.

I live with my parents, I eat their food, and they pay for my schooling (which is heavily discounted as my dad teaches there). They are financially stable for the most part, and I help them out around the house, physically and emotionally. I cannot give up that extra pair of shoes or a movie ticket, because I do not partake in any of these conventional activities of purchases or entertainment. I really don't. I go to class, philosophize with friends and students, and go home, read and write. I treat myself to the occasional beverage which may happen once a week, and you could say that is the only luxury I ever engage in, and almost always someone is buying me the drink. I have nothing I can sacrifice in terms of exchange because I choose to live a simple life.

To connect with this idea, I had an amazing experience at a homeless shelter this September, as I joined an elderly man for dinner at our local soup kitchen (where I was treated negatively and assumed to be a 'druggie' simply due to my presence there). He was very intelligent and was an artist. We discussed in detail art, history, and culture. He travels the country, making art, and giving it away for free. He lives the most simple life style as possible as that is what he believes in and chooses. Is he a freeloader? Is he a druggie or chronic alcoholic? By no means. He may not be working for the capitalist agenda, but he surely is giving back to the world with his endless inspiration and kindness. He taught me an important lesson that is priceless and one can never buy.

My problem with money is the direct connection of it with material goods, material time. There is more to this material world :)



AMEN Gregor

AND a big thank you for your inspiration on this, Project Avalon. It was a pleasure meeting you. I left with an inspiration to research more instead of stopping because my head was going to explode. I will never stop learning new and exciting things because of people like yourself. I myself get some meals from my parents. Times are tight and money is certainly and unfortunately the catalyst for so many people's unnecessary worries.
If in the event of a flooding of the coast I hope to start a new civilization with you in Northwestern Maine somewhere. Your knowledge of torsion energy and other means of harnessing what the earth has to offer is enough to start something that certainly surmounts a coming carbon tax. See you in the new earth.

Thank you
Dr Tony

:thumb_yello:

[enacae]

Well although it is not much for a subscription at the least 12 USD a year , and at the most 60 USD a year. This site has exploded in such a short time because of the content they provide. The content is excellent! With the audience that Bill and Kerry have they should have no problem raising money through placing advertisements in key locations on the site. Everyone knows why ads are on a site, and everyone knows that if you click an ad or complete an offer that the site owners get revenue. I truly believe in what Bill and Kerry are providing here. I know that they will do fine with or without the paid subscription. I also believe that the only thing that will suffer here is the forum part of the site. You see, right now anyone can post, but if the people have to pay to post a message or convey an idea about something they will probably go to another forum to do so. Therein the sites content becomes very limited and people will stop coming to the forum. Loyal visitors will stop by to see if anyone has posted anything of interest, but with the limited amount of select people who decided to pay to post, the site will suffer in the end.
Not to mention the whole stigma that goes along with turning something that was free to begin with into something that we now have to pay for. Kind of like a bait and switch deal. I know that is not what Bill and Kerry wants.

To me it's a simple decision
Turn this site into a paid subscription site :

Pros:

Quck revenue from the subscribers that is reoccurring month by month or year by year. (depending on how the subscriber pays)


Cons

Limits on who can post messages.
Loss of potential content (due to limits on who can post).
Stigma of the whole "pay to post" thing.
Potential loss of traffic to the site.
Subscribers could potentially drop their subscription due to lack of content or limited views.


I could go on and on on the cons of this, but Im not going to. The thing is.... I could come up with the 60 bucks to pay for a subscription, but I wont do it. This site will grow beyond belief if you keep it free. More and more people out there are getting the word about this site and it could reach critical mass and it could just go crazy. If those same people come here and realize they have to pay to post. Then what do you have? You have them leaving and probably never coming back.

What ever you guys decide to do, it will be fine. As I said before, Good Luck and God speed.

[MaskMarvl]

Those of you who get your meals and other things from your parents... what are you going to do when they're gone? Maybe it's time to start looking into that?

No offense of couse... :wink2:

I agree that it's a bummer that they've decided to go with a "membership" fee and also that they should at least try the donation scheme first but I suspect they've already experienced that with Project Camelot.

Oh well, I guess all we can do is watch and see what happens... Like someone said... "Everything happens for a reason" :wub2:

[Orion Morris]

I understand that they need funding and I am willing to support in any way that I can. I value the information on this fourm and would hate to see it change in any way possible. What we need is more people on here, not less. If the fourm goes to a subscription only then their will be a drastic decline in members and information. It will kill this place.

We cant do this...

I will support anybody that I can... But I do not have large amounts of money... Actually I am broke... But I will throw down 50 bucks....

My problem is that I use only cash... I will have to mail the money in cash....

Where do I send it... Will I be kicked off if the money arrives late?

[kem]

hello,

I have enough money to pay the subscription but I've posted yet no more than 20 messages.
I like to read what people has to say even if it's nuts.
Anyway I've found much usefull information here and I would be glad to sponsor somebody for one year.

peace

[burgundia]

I have an idea! let's ask Rockefeller and Rothschild to pay for Avalon.:roll1:

[GregorArturo]

Those of you who get your meals and other things from your parents... what are you going to do when they're gone? Maybe it's time to start looking into that?

No offense of couse... :wink2:

I agree that it's a bummer that they've decided to go with a "membership" fee and also that they should at least try the donation scheme first but I suspect they've already experienced that with Project Camelot.

Oh well, I guess all we can do is watch and see what happens... Like someone said... "Everything happens for a reason" :wub2:

When they're gone, I am going to go out back in the woods and harvest my own food, and cut my own wood, as I already do, but just to a smaller extent. It's easier to survive than much people think. And I don't think they'll be gone. I think the income will flip flop in the times to come. Instead of their money taking care of us per say, it will be my labor and rational mind taking care of us (rational as they are still in denial to what is going on).

I can tell you, I have thought out all my scenarios very extensively and am very comfortable in where I am and my current resources. The question is, have you?

[MaskMarvl]

I can tell you, I have thought out all my scenarios very extensively and am very comfortable in where I am and my current resources. The question is, have you?


"So do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring worries of its own. Today’s trouble is enough for today"

Matthew 6.34

:original:

[Antaletriangle]

I just wanted to respond to this to explain my position, just to remind people of my "type" versus my brother's statement of me being a freeloader.

I live with my parents, I eat their food, and they pay for my schooling (which is heavily discounted as my dad teaches there). They are financially stable for the most part, and I help them out around the house, physically and emotionally. I cannot give up that extra pair of shoes or a movie ticket, because I do not partake in any of these conventional activities of purchases or entertainment. I really don't. I go to class, philosophize with friends and students, and go home, read and write. I treat myself to the occasional beverage which may happen once a week, and you could say that is the only luxury I ever engage in, and almost always someone is buying me the drink. I have nothing I can sacrifice in terms of exchange because I choose to live a simple life.

To connect with this idea, I had an amazing experience at a homeless shelter this September, as I joined an elderly man for dinner at our local soup kitchen (where I was treated negatively and assumed to be a 'druggie' simply due to my presence there). He was very intelligent and was an artist. We discussed in detail art, history, and culture. He travels the country, making art, and giving it away for free. He lives the most simple life style as possible as that is what he believes in and chooses. Is he a freeloader? Is he a druggie or chronic alcoholic? By no means. He may not be working for the capitalist agenda, but he surely is giving back to the world with his endless inspiration and kindness. He taught me an important lesson that is priceless and one can never buy.

My problem with money is the direct connection of it with material goods, material time. There is more to this material world :)

Quality-we are the same..we are brothers! (Highlander the first, and only highlander film)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lgOD-eVSLI0

[Antaletriangle]

I just wanted to respond to this to explain my position, just to remind people of my "type" versus my brother's statement of me being a freeloader.

I live with my parents, I eat their food, and they pay for my schooling (which is heavily discounted as my dad teaches there). They are financially stable for the most part, and I help them out around the house, physically and emotionally. I cannot give up that extra pair of shoes or a movie ticket, because I do not partake in any of these conventional activities of purchases or entertainment. I really don't. I go to class, philosophize with friends and students, and go home, read and write. I treat myself to the occasional beverage which may happen once a week, and you could say that is the only luxury I ever engage in, and almost always someone is buying me the drink. I have nothing I can sacrifice in terms of exchange because I choose to live a simple life.

To connect with this idea, I had an amazing experience at a homeless shelter this September, as I joined an elderly man for dinner at our local soup kitchen (where I was treated negatively and assumed to be a 'druggie' simply due to my presence there). He was very intelligent and was an artist. We discussed in detail art, history, and culture. He travels the country, making art, and giving it away for free. He lives the most simple life style as possible as that is what he believes in and chooses. Is he a freeloader? Is he a druggie or chronic alcoholic? By no means. He may not be working for the capitalist agenda, but he surely is giving back to the world with his endless inspiration and kindness. He taught me an important lesson that is priceless and one can never buy.

My problem with money is the direct connection of it with material goods, material time. There is more to this material world :)

Exactly!
I know plenty like this i've lodged homeless people in the past when i had my own place to be able to exercise this several times!
Listen to this quality sounds!:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lgOD-eVSLI0

[historycircus]

Like Gregor above, I feel I must reply to some of the insinuations that have been put forth on this thread. I don't take accusations of being "dramatic," "childish," "a whiner," or a selfish "American" too lightly, so for the judgementally challenged, let me make a few clarifications:

I sarted this thread with the title "The Goodbye Thread" because I didn't want to suddenly be unable to say goodbye to some of the fantastic creatures who call Avalon home. There are good people here who have either seen my points of view and offered their own support, but more often, there are the folks who understand my point of view and have challenged me to move beyond my own mental box - some of the people who have called me out publicly and privately via my Avalon posts have helped me see the world a little bit differently. Is that not the point of the Hegelian dialectic? To reach synthesis? It is those folks who I am going to miss INTERACTING with here because of the subscriptions. My hope was that others who will be in the same boat could say a classy goodbye, and hopefully the thread would act as a way to get a little closure for a bad situation. That was my only intent. When subscriptions finally cut off communication, my plan was to copy and paste the text to a Word document, and keep it as a memento. I never threatened to "leave," I was just saying goodbye while I could. What was wrong with that?

Then my thread got merged with this "Options to Stay" business, and the thread became a debate/"love/hate your decision" conversation. My intent was not to discuss the merits of Bill and Kerry's decision - I don't know enough about maintaining computer forums and running a video production company to do so. But I do know a little something about conducting interviews, travelling a great deal to do so, and presenting research at conferences for the sharing of ideas. THAT costs a great deal of money, and since Bill and Kerry have been incredibly up front about the money they collect at PA going to support the work at PC, I totally understood the decision. That does not make it stink any less for those who won't be able to post anymore, but if the "big picture" demands it, so be it. I wasn't "whining" about subscriptions, or trying to preserve my existence here, I was just trying to say goodbye. Read my OP again, if in doubt.

And I must address the notion that I am a drama king because I am a citizen of the United States, and therefore must be greedy, selfish, and want everything for free - I invoke the Jerry Springer defense: "You don't know me." If you did, then you would know that if I'm still breathing, I'm fighting the dominant paridigms - with or without access to internet forums. I don't want to be seen as a blind American patriot here, but the "lazy, selfish American" stereotype is one that does not hold up to scrutiny. European nations are baffled by the fact that Americans work 5-7 days a week and only take an average of two weeks of vacation a year. Our teenagers might be killing each other in the secondary schools, but where do the worlds high school graduates come to get their college educations? What nation leads the world in humanitarian aid? I'm not saying the United States is perfect, it has many problems, but what nation doesn't? Shall I bandy about some tired stereotypes of the French, English, or Germans? No, because to do so is stupid, insensitive, and would betray a lack of understanding of said peoples and cultures. I think it is disgusting that those who mask themselves behind love and light and bemoan the lack of enlightenment in others could find themselves so reduced to throwing out tired, inaccurate, blanket assertions about such a diverse society as the United States.

[Esther]

What a loss of brilliant minds this will be! Times are too pressing to be putting this kind of energy on this forum. There are better ways to raise money: donations, selling of some of the data, etc. There are many free forums from websites that inform people. They sells books, cds, etc.

Is this bringing a new paradigm to birth? I do not think so. I have donated my website to several causes because I do not believe in the exchange of money for ideals of the heart. I am by no means a rich person. My work outside the house is very hard so that i can devote some time to raising awareness.

Au revoir and it has been a pleasure to 'meet' all of you.

[nibiru]

SERVICE TO SELF - SERVICE TO OTHERS... THE ETERNAL DILEMMA.... DON´T POLARIZE TO THE EXTREMES... INTEGRATE OPPOSITES....IN A HARMONIOUS WAY...
THIS SITE SHOULD BE A FREE SITE FOR FREE THINKERS... BUT THERE SHOULD BE ALSO AN EQUAL EXCHANGE OF ENERGY...FUNDRAISING SHOULD BE NO PROBLEM AT ALL IF YOU LOOK WITH THE CORRECT LENSE...WE ARE NOT BEING CREATIVE TO PROPOSE A SOLUTION THAT WORKS FOR ALL OF US....GROUNDCREW,MODS,FOUNDERS...
I PROPOSE TU RAISE FUNDS VIA THE ROTSCHILD´S ... LOL
1) CHARGE A FEE FOR YOUR CONFERENCES WORLDWIDE
2) SHIRTS AND DVD´S ALSO WORK FOR FUNDING PURPOSES.
3)ASK FORMALLY TO TYCOONS...there are some who will be willing to help...no one has asked them yet...or have you ?. I don´t think so...
4)WRITE A BOOK AND SELL IT...there is plenty of material to do so, and it will give enough funding for years and years to come...
5)BEGIN A PROGRAMM IN WHICH THE CANDIDATES WILL PAY A FEE TO ASSIST YOU IN INTERVIEWS...
people pay in advance to go to the moon or to fly to space in private flights...why not
6) EDIT A WORLDWIDE MAGAZINE... AND OFFER SPACE FOR ADVERTISING ON IT... IT´S GOOD BUSINESS...
7)BEGIN A CLUB...WITH AN ANNUAL FEE FOR MEMBERS ONLY...
8) RAFFLES...WIN A PRIVATE INTERVIEW WITH ST. CLAIR... (as an example only)
9) SELL ADVERTISING SPACE ON THE SITE...(HSBC WILL LOVE THIS ONE...LOL)
10)DONATIONS FROM MEMBERS OR VISITORS...
MORE?....

[BeaTnik-BandiT]

Well although it is not much for a subscription at the least 12 USD a year , and at the most 60 USD a year. This site has exploded in such a short time because of the content they provide. The content is excellent! With the audience that Bill and Kerry have they should have no problem raising money through placing advertisements in key locations on the site. Everyone knows why ads are on a site, and everyone knows that if you click an ad or complete an offer that the site owners get revenue. I truly believe in what Bill and Kerry are providing here. I know that they will do fine with or without the paid subscription. I also believe that the only thing that will suffer here is the forum part of the site. You see, right now anyone can post, but if the people have to pay to post a message or convey an idea about something they will probably go to another forum to do so. Therein the sites content becomes very limited and people will stop coming to the forum. Loyal visitors will stop by to see if anyone has posted anything of interest, but with the limited amount of select people who decided to pay to post, the site will suffer in the end.
Not to mention the whole stigma that goes along with turning something that was free to begin with into something that we now have to pay for. Kind of like a bait and switch deal. I know that is not what Bill and Kerry wants.

To me it's a simple decision
Turn this site into a paid subscription site :

Pros:

Quck revenue from the subscribers that is reoccurring month by month or year by year. (depending on how the subscriber pays)


Cons

Limits on who can post messages.
Loss of potential content (due to limits on who can post).
Stigma of the whole "pay to post" thing.
Potential loss of traffic to the site.
Subscribers could potentially drop their subscription due to lack of content or limited views.


I could go on and on on the cons of this, but Im not going to. The thing is.... I could come up with the 60 bucks to pay for a subscription, but I wont do it. This site will grow beyond belief if you keep it free. More and more people out there are getting the word about this site and it could reach critical mass and it could just go crazy. If those same people come here and realize they have to pay to post. Then what do you have? You have them leaving and probably never coming back.

What ever you guys decide to do, it will be fine. As I said before, Good Luck and God speed.

Well said. :thumb_yello:

salute.

[oldpaganfreak]

well, it's official. they are going to start charging for ther forum. i'm enjoyed being here, but as a pensioner, i can't afford to pay. so much for the 'free sharing of important information'.
peace, patrick

[sleepingnomore]

Stop and think members before you sling mud.

Offer suggestions and alternate methods to solve the problem. This is not the place for division and attitude.

Personally, I think all of the alternatives are feasible. Why not try them all and see which ones work the best?

You could have a post office box address to send donations in the form of money orders and checks.

Sell advertising or dvds, t-shirts designed to get the message out. Imagine the people that don't even know this site exists that might just be curious enough to check it out.

Have subscriptions (if you must) at varying levels of affordability.

After a trial period see which methods work and alter your future methods.

[doodah]

Contact one of the mods and tell them you'd like to have your name put on a list of people who would like to be gifted a membership. This is one of those situations where if you ask for help, you'll likely get it. A number of posters have already said they will be happy to pay for themselves and one, or several, other people.

Peace.

[hobbit]

Could I just suggest an alternative to subscriptions ( which will lead to an elite and secret system similer to the masonic lodges)

E Bay is the biggest and easiest way to raise funds, I have thousands of books , and all sorts of other STUFF that could be sold on there, then if it was all sold under a banner and account deposited into an avalon account, We could all just do that as and when we have goods to dispose of.
That way a fresh influx of members will keep joining, but as a subscription forum it will never expand and become eletist.
If the fund was kept visual, and open( isn't that what we all want to happen world wide?)
Then living withdrawals and expenses could be drawn and shown, Avalon would be the property of all members then?
Hobbit

[capreycorn]

should looking for a sponsor be a option...


be sure to aim high!

try this guy:


http://u2fanlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/time-bono.jpg

http://files.splinder.com/3088e15de38d18ed63955085021c5bb4.jpeg


ok lets be partners...cheers
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh81/jpiepenbrok/squirrel_drinking_animated.gif

[m00g]

I will miss reading all these people leaving.

Gregor and Flying Pyramids in particular

I know of a hosting service which cost's me all of "Seven" USD per month for 'Reliable hosting' which has been trusted for about ten years in the 'distribution scene'. Yep cheap and for about a 100 USD you can host a lot of anything. FXP is working well there as I type ;)


With all due respect to B and K :)

"Withholding the opportunity to interact in dialogue for free is...what ?"

It might be better if you state that you need to cover flight tickets for camelot interviews ;)

That way you are 'up front and honest' and also place some interest in the viewers power to donate for that particular trip ;)

If you need cheap and reliable hosting pm me, I can help. ;)

Prohibiting free speak is not cool... :wall:


All the best B and K

Goodbye and good luck as you have helped a LOT :)

-moogy

For those that want a free space to talk email me @ m00gercake@gmail.com (finally I will drip out of the KG world and help in another way.....)

[zorgon]

A goodbye thread... how appropriate...



I think not listening to 77% of their supporters suggesting other means to generate an income is career suicide, in saying that I wish Bill & Kerry all the best of luck in the future.

Not really if you look at the numbers... and I too agree with you that its not the money (though 60.00 a years IS outrageous) but the principle.

How can you purport to be a whistle blower on government and PTB wrong doing and greed, then say you will charge for it? :mfr_omg:

Now then, lets look at the numbers for a minute and put this in perspective...


Fee... 60.00 a year...

Current members as of today...

5,342 times 60 equals $320,520.00

Active Members as of today... about 50%

2,651 times 60 equals $159,060.00

If only half of the ACTIVE members pony up the loot (25% of total members)... that still leaves $79,530.00 a year income. Not to shabby where I come from.

Most of us have to work HARD to get even close to half that for a yearly income, but this money will be used so the Camelot crew can travel around the world to talk to people (who may or may not have anything of value to say, truth wise, as recent wrong predictions have shown)

Add the book sales, t-shirts, coffee mugs and CD's/DVD's and you have a very lucrative business.

Impressive :thumb_yello: Maybe I should reconsider 'getting into the business' After all ATS is now worth over $250,000.00 :shocked:

So the book is already at 1500 pages in draft form. Seems to me this was planned all along. Hoagland would be proud. Don't forget the Press Club in Washington release. RH sold a LOT of copies from that release

Congratulations for joining the ranks of "Truth for Megabucks" whistle blowers. May you live well in your posh resort in Australia while the ground crews scramble for cover in the dirt when the SHTF, as it so obviously will according to all the 'info' spread here.

[Worlds Beyond 2]

Hi all..

only just been able to log in after a 28hours of being 'locked out' from Avalon server.. eek! (nothing ominous I hasten to add!!) .. I've only just seen the news re: Subs and read all the threads/posts...

Wow. many people have already said a lot of things I also think. But I have a few things to add...

I feel the urge to tackle/question the content/tone of several comments/reasons/statements by certain 'decision makers' (and a small number of other members/mods) in their posts about this whole issue.. but I won't.... I don't feel that will be at all helpful to anyone.. and will only be perceived as being 'negative' I'm sure! :wink2:

But it has, sadly, become crystal clear (from those same posts), that the level of values/beliefs/ethics around issues of human unity / compassion / love / freedom / truth / accessiblity / equality / respect for all, which I had thought underpinned this forum, are not quite at the level I had hoped/thought they were. :nono:

I am very sad at the decision by Bill/Kerry to make the forum paid/subs based. For me, apart from any personal financial aspect, I feel that the very premise of being required to pay (any amount, even 1 penny) to contribute to/participate in a Web Forum is erroneous and rather misguided...(sorry guys, but that's how I feel, no offence intended) ... especially given that:

1. An opinion poll was conducted and a clear majority said they would leave if had to pay to access the forum. To ask the members their views, and then to totally ignore them, and go and do the exact opposite of the forum's own 'market-research' is, to me, madness. It's shooting yourselves in the foot, my humble opinion, and I think something Bill and Kerry, that you might come to regret later, after hindsight has graced with its prescence.

To ask people's opinion, then ignore it and do the opposite of the majority, I'm sorry to say, for me that is a little reminiscent of the very type of political/power-play/'sod the peasants' shennanegans we're all here working to get rid of/overcome.. one way or another!

2. There have been SO many other positive, constructive, workable suggestions, some good, some less practical maybe, of ways to generate revenue for PC/PA 's continued running.... including clear offers to pay outright for PA Forum! Yet these solutions seem to have been put to back burner / done as a small 'sideline' to the Forum Subscription.

3.The very principle of this decision is forcing people to pay to participate .... yes.. forcing! Let's not make 'excuses' here, or try and paint it as something different! Basically, you will no longer be able to particpate in PA if you can't pay! Nor if you prefer to keep your dignity intact and financial position private by not going on the "free school-dinners" waiting list for 'charity-case' members! :sad:

4. ... point 3 is something which, by its very nature is, in my view, going along the very same 'mode of operating' that the world we are trying to Ascend, Change & Move On from operates in.. and has been doing for centuries.. hence the very mess we are all in right now on this planet! i.e. oh yes, there's plenty of resources on this planet.. for those who can afford to PAY for them!!! :sad: :mad3:

4. Given a large content of PA/PC material relates to the financial downfall of the West/entire world, end to currencies, possible end of the entire monetary-based world as we know it in coming years... isn't making this a pay-for-membership Forum just going in REVERSE direction of what PA/PC stands for in first place??!!? :shocked:

OK, enough from me!!!!

My simple summing up of the hundreds of thoughts I have about this decision, and some of the "reasons" / "justifications" which have been given for it, is this:

Just as a Company means its people, and by it's very nature/name cannot exist without them.. a Web Forum IS its members... and woud be nothing without them... except a blank template floating around in Cyberspace....

WITHOUT PEOPLE (freely and equally able to contribute) there simply IS NO FORUM!

PC/PA may have cost implications to keep going, am not doubting/commenting on that. But a Forum is a forum. And a business is a business. Don;t mix up the two! And PA is a Forum. Without the equal and free contribution of its members, it is nothing... no matter who 'owns' or 'runs' it.. no matter who's house the "party" is in!

I personally thank Bill & Kerry and all at PA/PC for bringing the forum intro being.. and also for all the info on PC.... I have no doubt that it has been hard work and I thank you for sharing the info with the public. But, notwithstanding that, even if I could afford to pay £500 per month to be a full member, I wouldn't do it. It's a matter of personal integrity, life-values and personal principles.

I wish you ALL well for the future! And thank you especially to the ordinary Members.. many of whom have contributed some wonderful and invaluable info, intersting ideas and personal thoughts and learnings...

Peaceful blessings! :original:

[franciejones]

zorgon...your post is exactly what I hope will disappear with a paid subscription! :)

What the "nay sayers" keep failing to mention is that EVERYONE will be free to read all info here....

[macleodmunro]

Yes, i'd be happy to help out others to stay on the forum, although i still don't think this is the best option.

Weigh it up.
Excellent forum for free, or lesser forum you have to pay for.

mmmm, like i said not the best option.

Also i'd expect more Camelot material in the pipeline if were paying.

[Swanny]

Hi, Swanny:

But can you afford $1 a month, which will be the minimum for those on low incomes?

That's $12 a year... or (as I said earlier) the price of two hamburgers. Or one movie ticket... or three Starbucks coffees. :)

Very best wishes, Bill

Thx for the reply Bill
But why would I want to pay to use a forum when all the best posters have left and the new info is very one mans view type??????

I have a idea, how about you let all existing members stay for free and charge any new people joining????
That way you reward the people that made this site what it is and you still get a income from new members. Plus your more likely to get new members because there is still a lot of new info being posted.
Also stick a little advert in the corner.

[historycircus]

zorgon...your post is exactly what I hope will disappear with a paid subscription!

Tsk, tsk, tsk, . . . (sigh)

[capreycorn]

law of attraction people...get out of it! AIM HIGH!

PA powered by U2? a merger? with their site? maybe?
http://www.u2online.org/images/U2-header.gif

i mean them:
http://www.nme.com/images/84_u2_treasurehunt_L.jpg

not them:
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/i/bcst/channel7/595/50987976.jpg

ok ...so maybe you end up with phil collins...
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x136/ds7wwjd/Encouragement/SmileAnimated.gif
so what?

[zorgon]

Contact one of the mods and tell them you'd like to have your name put on a list of people who would like to be gifted a membership.

Whatever for? Its not about the money, its about the principal...

By charging for 'info' on how the PTB and Governments are greedy at the expense of the people they resort to the same tactics and charge to here this?

The info provided by whistle blowers here time after time has failed to come true. Why pay for gloom and doom and false profits... errr prophets?

I can turn on Fox news and get that for free.

Well TTFN I have no intention of providing my work for free when someone else will make a buck from it... or at the very least I want my royalty check...

[crowmirror]

zorgon...your post is exactly what I hope will disappear with a paid subscription! :)

What the "nay sayers" keep failing to mention is that EVERYONE will be free to read all info here....

after reading your comments i conclude that you may be a prime candidate
for some cult somewhere....good luck on the compound!

:tongue2:

what you seem to not notice is that the info will be leaving once ppl like zorgon are gone...

[franciejones]

Thank you crowmirror! I appreciate your thoughts.

[SplatPantZ]

Goodby to all, i will keep reading, but no more posting.
I would not like to be put on the list for help with payment or free posting as im not one for a free ride (unless in a ufo (snigger)).

Love to all :wub2:

[Worlds Beyond 2]

What the "nay sayers" keep failing to mention is that EVERYONE will be free to read all info here....


Hi Francie...

I what many people, myself included are feeling, and the point we're trying to make is this..

yes, we understand the forum will be 'free to read' by all after the change to a monetary-based participation system is imposed... but the point that seems to have been overlooked (or perhaps ignored?) is that what MAKES this forum what it is, is the very information that is provided by the members themselves.. through being able to come and participate, freely and equally.

The whole idea/premise of a Forum, as I understand it, is participation by the public/audience (forgive me if I'm incorrect, I have not checked this in dictionary)... it is the members being able to actively contribute/voice/discuss.. not stand behind a screen hidden from view and just observe..

The members ARE this forum. No members = No information = No forum.

Without the members being able to input/access freely and equally... I think the forum will, sadly, start to be somewhat lacking in having content, and diversity, and may very well find itself not having "all the info", before too long....


Peace and good wishes :original:

[franciejones]

I appreciate what you are saying Worlds Beyond 2...HOWEVER Bill stated that being here is a privilege NOT A RIGHT and if a paid subscription is needed then it is NOT UP FOR DEBATE......

People who do not wish to pay are not REQUIRED TO DO SO. I do not see what the problem is.

[Jack]

Hello OldPaganFreak.

The forum will remain free as read only, but if you wish to participate then you will have to pay a subscription fee. This is very fair considering the work that Bill and Kerry put into getting this information into the public domain. They are running on fumes right now and im suprised people who claim to care about whats going on dont show their support by helping them out. Many of us have jobs and we can pay the Bills. For Bill and Kerry this is their job. And considering they are providing this very valuable service to us, it is only fair that we play our part in supporting them.

It is also optional if you want to show your support by paying the subscription. If you do not wish to do so that is up to you.

All the best,

Jack

[ucan]

I've been on the forum since the beginning and it was really exciting when it began - but it's turned into something completely different now and I'm not so interested in being part of what's going on right now - I hope that when the subscription starts things will flow more - I for one will be staying and will be considering the money I pay as a donation to camelot/avalon for the fine work Kerry and Bill et al are doing and to help keep it going - with the added benefit of getting a login to avalon. I haven't used the networking features much yet as I'm not really a fan of facebook-esq sites and never really know what to say to people, but I've noticed quiet a few users that i'm really interested in and I would like to get a bit more involved...


:cheerful_h4h::cheerful_h4h::cheerful_h4h:

[franciejones]

Well said ucan! My sentiments completely! Can't wait to see what changes take place.

[Donny]

zorgon...your post is exactly what I hope will disappear with a paid subscription! :)

What the "nay sayers" keep failing to mention is that EVERYONE will be free to read all info here....

I have to say I dont think this comment was constructive, we all have the right to an oppinion and express our fellings, even if sometimes they are read wrongly.

We still, even if some choose to leave the forum, for what ever private or disclosed reasons that they may have, we have things going on in the world which will require at some stage people working together to bring love and peace back to a stricken world, bickering and rudeness will only make people like myself wonder if the love and light realy shines from this once lovely forum.

Donny

[Dantheman62]

Well said Jack! And with such a low fee for subscription I throw principals aside, and would be happy to help out those in need. False prophecies or not, I look at it as enlightening entertainment, for lack of any better words. There is always something to learn here!

[SpeedAdict]

Hello Jack..

Listen.. What about us outside US that have problems with the dollar, and is very (not to say almos imposible) to obtain the dollars here..

The Exchange Monetary system in Venezuela is controlled 110% by the goverment... I wish to subscribe and keep writting in the forum, but to obtain the dollars to pay is REALLY difficult..

What about that kind of problem!!?? :wall:

[burgundia]

Hello OldPaganFreak.

The forum will remain free as read only, but if you wish to participate then you will have to pay a subscription fee. This is very fair considering the work that Bill and Kerry put into getting this information into the public domain. They are running on fumes right now and im suprised people who claim to care about whats going on dont show their support by helping them out. Many of us have jobs and we can pay the Bills. For Bill and Kerry this is their job. And considering they are providing this very valuable service to us, it is only fair that we play our part in supporting them.

It is also optional if you want to show your support by paying the subscription. If you do not wish to do so that is up to you.

All the best,

Jack

I agree with you. What Bill and Kerry are doing costs money unlike on other forums where extensive travelling is not required to get information.

[Worlds Beyond 2]

I appreciate what you are saying Worlds Beyond 2...HOWEVER Bill stated that being here is a privilege NOT A RIGHT and if a paid subscription is needed then it is NOT UP FOR DEBATE......

People who do not wish to pay are not REQUIRED TO DO SO. I do not see what the problem is.

Ouch!! :sad:
I was not having a go at you at all, so why are you up on some high horse ?

The "privilege" aspect, if there is one, goes BOTH ways.. are PA not priveleged that so many ordinary members have shared so much of their personal experiences, knowledge, idea and stories on here??

the "RIGHT" ??? oh.. ok... well.. I'm not sure it's worth continuing trying to reason with you ... ?? There is a BIG difference between "appreciating" what someone is saying, and really seeking to understand their view/feelings/thoughts, with an open mind and heart...

Take care Francie! :original:

[Malcontent]

Hm, going to start charging for forum? Well while nothing in life is free. I will have to say reading something you can't comment on isn't very rewarding. Appears my time here has been cut short.:sad:

[symbolon]

I was here from the beginning and i opt to stay. Most of you who opted to leave do so out of principle, but none of you can know for certain what this forum will become after you have left. You may well regret leaving.

You are actually demonstrating that you prefer self-service, i.e. what's in it for me? And yet, you want this world to change for the better...just as long as you are not asked to participate in it's change. This yearly subscription is in truth very low, and the vast majority would well be able to afford it.

At this stage in the game i do not see the sense in leaving, because by doing so you will deliberately withold your knowledge and your support to the rest of us who would value your input.

[Lotus]

Sounds quite reasonable - read for free, pay to contribute....:smoke:

[Bill Ryan]

I'd have hoped that Bill and Kerry would have planned this a little better from the outset and mentioned it at the very start (as i can't remember if they did?)


We did!

It was just about the first thing we posted, as we knew it was important not to ambush people with this.

We actually said (in early September) we'd implement the subscription at the start of October. But there were so many new posts and threads right at the beginning that we do understand that you might well have missed it.

Very best wishes, Bill

[BeaTnik-BandiT]

law of attraction people...get out of it! AIM HIGH!

PA powered by U2? a merger? with their site?

But don't ask the U2 guys to invest in Ireland, their own country of origin,

Taxes are too high !...:thumbdown:


salute.

[ghglenn]

It would be the first forum that I would have to pay to be a part of...


Weird...C-ya

[THE eXchanger]

brightest blessings to all

[Bobcat]

what I don't understand is, with all the whistleblowers that are so connected here why don't they spend a bit themselves. They seem to be from very high paid work and they want us to listen so we can understand. Why are people now being charged? Its not like we are being chrged enough in life.
Someting just smells funny....I know of hundreds of sites that run larger forums than this and they are very poor people.

Iff I had the spare money I'd be chucking a bit of cash about just to stop this stupidity.

I smell a rat

[ATYT]

Adios.

A sido genial el tiempo compartido.
los veo aca: http://www.astrovera.com/forum/index.php

PAZ

[Bill Ryan]

A goodbye thread... how appropriate...

.... (though 60.00 a years IS outrageous)

$12.00 a year minimum.

How can you purport to be a whistle blower on government and PTB wrong doing and greed, then say you will charge for it? :mfr_omg:

Whistleblowers contact us for free by post, telephone, e-mail or Skype. We had one such conversation tonight, that lasted for 90 minutes.

After due diligence, we publish their testimony free of charge on the net, and sometimes pay thousands of dollars to travel to interview them on camera.

Viewers, listeners or readers pay precisely $0.00.

Now then, lets look at the numbers for a minute and put this in perspective...

Fee... 60.00 a year...

Current members as of today...

5,342 times 60 equals $320,520.00

Active Members as of today... about 50%

2,651 times 60 equals $159,060.00

If only half of the ACTIVE members pony up the loot (25% of total members)... that still leaves $79,530.00 a year income. Not to shabby where I come from.

Bogus math. Not very scientific :)

So the book is already at 1500 pages in draft form. Seems to me this was planned all along.

We started thinking about the book in January.

Congratulations for joining the ranks of "Truth for Megabucks" whistle blowers. May you live well in your posh resort in Australia while the ground crews scramble for cover in the dirt when the SHTF, as it so obviously will according to all the 'info' spread here.

Shame on you, Ron. F*** your sarcasm. If you'd met us in Vegas when we offered to buy you dinner - and you never returned any of our phone calls - you would have learned at first hand about us, our principles and values.

You've never once met us, but you prefer internet rumor, and (as usual) figure that you know best. You may not.

Be careful - you are revealing what a good researcher you may or may not be.

Ask John what kind of people we are. He will tell you.

Very best wishes, Bill

[franciejones]

Love you Bill.

Well said!

Please know that most of Avalons supporters do not buy into the rubbish that was posted on this thread by zorgon.

[Worlds Beyond 2]

none of you can know for certain what this forum will become after you have left. You may well regret leaving.


What it "will become"?? probably fairly empty and narrow ..? Just my feeling, as it will lack the rich diversity / volume of information and knowledge and ideas provided by so many members who are not able or willing to pay to post. And, this is exactly one of my earlier points.. Bill/Kerry (I feel) are possibly likely to feel regret about the decision they made at some future point.. I could be wrong..... ho hum..


You are actually demonstrating that you prefer self-service, i.e. what's in it for me? And yet, you want this world to change for the better...just as long as you are not asked to participate in it's change. This yearly subscription is in truth very low, and the vast majority would well be able to afford it.

Wow! Did you really mean that or think about it before saying it?? I beg to differ on your view here. I for one, have very little, materailly or financially. I came here as much to share my experiences with others as to learn from others experiences. Memebers who post are not "takers". Many, maybe MOST, are in fact "Givers", as they are sharing and providing information, knowledge, experience and learning. The members contributions are the SOLE content of the Avalon forum.

Also.. how can you possibly comment or know what any single person here does to make a contribution to this world?? Do you know any, or all of them?? What they have done / do now / do in future for others?? Who are you to estimate, assume or judge anybody's commitment or actions or record towards service to others / to the world, or to bringing about positive changes ???



At this stage in the game i do not see the sense in leaving, because by doing so you will deliberately withold your knowledge and your support to the rest of us who would value your input.

I'm sure nobody who leaves has even contemplated this as being "Deliberately withholding knowlege" or denying "support"... as you seem to see it..... .it's more that many feel why should they be forced to pay to share their knowledge??? Or to participate??

The knowledge on the forum IS the knowledge ALREADY provided FREE OF CHARGE by the current members. So.. your point makes no sense, at any level, to me anyway. In fact, the reality, to me, is quite the reverse !! ... taken logically, surely it would then mean P/Avalon paying MEMBERS for the knowledge they give to create Forum Avalon?? Otherwise P/Avalon is just acting as a 'service to self' by asking people to contribute knowledge and ideas and support, AND then asking them to PAY for the privilege of doing so!!! lol.

........anyway... ...... so.... this post of yours makes me once again realise that the idea of "listening" and "seeking to understand" what many members are saying, instead of judging them/viewing them as 'wrong' comes into play again...

the accusation that people who are leaving "prefer self-service, i.e. what's in it for me? And yet, ..want this world to change for the better...just as long as you are not asked to participate in it's change" is not only laughable, it is quite insulting and deeply offensive, to me personally (you have NO idea what I do, what I give, or how I interact in this world, not my blanace of GIVE and TAKE in life!!).. and possibly will be equally as insulting and offensive to the many, many people (much more than me!) who have shared so much knowledge, wisdom, love and ideas on here.. and in other's lives/the wider world ... for FREE !!!

[Truth voice 2012]

Jaysus! Avalon is really gettin a good oul beating off the duality stick recently. Tempers flairing and broken hearts all over the place and not forgetting the Love and light crowd still dancing naked and holding hands in the corner. How interesting. Ill miss throwing in a thought or two every now and then her on avalon but Ill still visit to gather info (if theres any left after everyone leaves). I wish everyone all the best. I pray, out of all the theories that are out there on whats gonna happen that we do indeed evolve into something better. If its certain death for all, than Ill see you all next time we reincarnate and start all this bulls**t all over again.

Good bye for now peeps

Danny

[Bobcat]

interesting point Truth Voice 2012,

If we are all dead and moving vibration/dimention, why do we need cash ?

[bluestix]

We did!

It was just about the first thing we posted, as we knew it was important not to ambush people with this.

We actually said (in early September) we'd implement the subscription at the start of October. But there were so many new posts and threads right at the beginning that we do understand that you might well have missed it.

Very best wishes, Bill


It is just a bad business decision to try to charge for something people obviously don't want to pay for.

Subscription models on the web only work for things that people are willing to pay for... like porn.

For everything else there is advertising.

Look at Google. All of their services are free and they make $5B every 3 months.

Unlike forum users, advertisers will go out of their way to give you money.


I admit that advertising is a less then desirable solution but it is a much better solution then your subscription idea.


People love you and we are grateful for the work that you do but you should take some business advice.

[capreycorn]

http://teamscrew.com/pics/cats%20fight.jpg

[GregorArturo]

Just to let those know, it seems that my presence is greatly desired here so regardless of what happens, my membership has been vouched for by several individuals. Thank you for your gifts and also helping Project Avalon. It seems I will be having a website going up rather shortly with my work and writings.

However, I want people to understand the 'principle' at hand like Zorgan has stated along with historycircus. I also want people to critically think about this as this a major MAJOR philosophical idea that people need to try and wrap their minds around. As you may know, the three of us are active posters on Avalon, and are considered by many to be great assets in terms of the insight we contribute [and I say that out of truth, not modesty]. So, I hope that with that notion, you really try to grasp why the three of us have this position and that it is not based on some 'freeloader' mentality.

Principal first is a huge thing. It comes down to honor and belief. Relate to the movie Braveheart where Mel Gibson is breathing his last breaths in the end of the movie. It seems like the logical thing to do was to 'give in' and renounce your beliefs to save your life. However, he goes to his death with his beliefs. This scene is one of the defining moments in all of Hollywood of the true meaning of honor.

Technically, if we give in to paying a fee, we are indeed renouncing our honor, our beliefs. Through my experience in life, many people have a hard time fully grasping this concept. It relates again to a Chinese proverb I recently used on Avalon, "To know and not to do, is not to know." These concepts are at the core of philosophical understanding. Some of you may indeed grasp the concept of honor, but do you live by it [being that you choose to even recognize it as something of a positive nature versus impractical and foolish as many seem to see].

If one is able to grasp the concept that at the core of this universe is consciousness while hard matter is all but an illusion, then it is behavior that matters over material actions. Connect that notion with honor and survival now.

A 'true' philosopher realizes the reality of ownership and knowledge in that there is no concrete connection between the two. When one applies such a restraint, especially in the terms of knowledge that is being presented that relates to these specific concepts, in my opinion is rather hypocritical.

Bill and Kerry if you read this, I by no means mean to offend or disrespect you but am discussing this from a purely philosophical position. Namaste.

[symbolon]

I beg to differ on your view here. I for one, have very little, materailly or financially. I came here as much to share my experiences with others as to learn from others experiences. Memebers who post are not "takers". Many, maybe MOST, are in fact "Givers", as they are sharing and providing information, knowledge, experience and learning. The members contributions are the SOLE content of the Avalon forum.
I guess it's your very good right to differ.

Also.. how can you possibly comment or know what any single person here does to make a contribution to this world?? Do you know any, or all of them?? What they have done/do now/do in future?? Who are you to estimate, assume or judge anybody's commitment or actions or record towards service to others, to the world, or to bringing about positive changes???
Why can i not comment? You do! My opinion on this subject may be different from yours, but it's just as valid.

the accusation that people who are leaving " prefer self-service, i.e. what's in it for me? And yet, ..want this world to change for the better...just as long as you are not asked to participate in it's change" is not only laughable, it is quite insulting and offensice to the many, many people (much more than me!) who have shared so much knowledge, wisdom, love and ideas on here.. and in life/the woder world ... for FREE !!!
I guess you want everything for free.

[capreycorn]

But don't ask the U2 guys to invest in Ireland, their own country of origin,

Taxes are too high !...:thumbdown:


salute.


oh i get it,
http://artificeeternity.com/voltage/images/20070318_youreachin_300x300.jpg
it would be too cool really with U2...
the band is probably also not anymore what it used to be....
bono is too deep into politics.:sad:
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40928000/jpg/_40928624_bono_bush_body.jpg

[crowmirror]

.

[Worlds Beyond 2]

I guess it's your very good right to differ.


Why can i not comment? You do! My opinion on this subject may be different from yours, but it's just as valid.


I guess you want everything for free.


Symobolon..

1. there's a very big difference between making a "comment" / having an "opinion" and making accusations/value judgements about people.

2. I don't want anything for free. I don't want anything in fact. I have no 'wants' in my life.

thank you for replying :original:



By the way... one final thought..... not aimed at anyone, just a thought... after all this debate/conflict about money... and "Right" and "privilege" etc.... have some people forgotten what is coming?? What lies ahead???

The fact is.. there is no such thing as MONEY on the 'other side' !!! :original:


Peace and light to all..... and God bless your journey...

:original:

[herbivore]

this really sucks :thumbdown:
adios amigos

[symbolon]

The fact is.. there is no such thing as MONEY on the 'other side' !!!
Very true, but this is not the others side.

I have no 'wants' in my life.
Not so. Judging from your original aggressive post, you want to be heard...agressively if need be. You have already demonstrated this. I do not recall attacking anyone at all or making hostile comments. You did this, i did not. I merely voiced my opinion, like you did, nothing more.

Peace to you too

[GenerationIke]

nor shall I be able to post. I am on a very strict budget. I do know how tight money is these days. And trying to pay down the bills as far and as fast as I can before the big slide hits is all I can do. Also, trying to stock food on a limited food budget doesn't help either.

So, I will keep checking in from time to time to see what's the latest in news.

And I will keep dreaming those dreams as well! Count on it!

Remember to keep fighting the good fight. We shall over come one day.

[crowmirror]

speaking of options:tongue2:

http://www.astrovera.com/forum/index.php

[capreycorn]

how about this sponsor?:original:
http://neverneutral.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/watermarkphp.jpeg
i mean "virgin"

[norman]

F*** your sarcasm.





Your getting there Bill, just a little further and we'll really talking soon.


:roll1:

[Flying Pyramid]

To Bill & Kerry From The Son Of Man:

I go by many names but the one i am is S.O.M. (Son Of Man).
I was given a mission, a purpose at the age of 12.
That Free DC Energy be released 4 years before 2012.
This is my all consuming reason to live or i would have taken myself out years ago. You honestly have no idea what it feels like, the mind f**k it plays on you to know what i know for 21 years and know there's nothing i can do or obtain that will ever make me happy because it was not my purpose. So in the later days of my life i begin to wake up and find a place called "Camelot" & "Avalon" and see my people, my family, there. The gathering place of others, the true heros and heroins of our day and age. All of a sudden in a blink of an eye i was not alone, i was not crazy as i thought most of my life. Everything i have ever possably thought or contimplated is here. I knew right then that this was the place i had to find. This is where i was to tell the world what i knew. I at anytime could have handed this over to the powers that be. I could have been king of the world, the man that sold the world. But i didn't. I stuggled on faceing whatever life and the PTB through at me. Marching on even though i knew nothing. I had nothing to go on other than a dreram. I had noone to walk with me other than god. And i fought god (myself) evey step of the way. But i stumbled into my destiny being guided by my own madness. It was the dream that kept me going. The whole time i was lost, homeless and hiding i was never hungry. I was always clothed. I never had to freeze outside. I was never messed with or assualted even in the most dangerous places in the world i walked freely.
I metsome of the most beautiful people in the world living in places where haveing almost nothing is a blessing.
And then it dawns on me, i have never once spanged. (spare change for money) Not once have i ever asked for money. Why? I should have, i could have had alot better times than i did, but looking back on it, i never wanted for anything. When i was hungry i ate. When i was cold i was warmed. When i needed rest i did safely.

Do you know why it worked this way?

Because i was doing the work of my higher self for us all.
The greater good is all that matters. Only us together can induce change.
If you are doing the work of the gods, and you are, then fear not.
Want not. For what you need is allready written.
God knows what you need. And you shall have it.
Money in all ways is a service to self.
In a positive community the farmer farms, the butcher butches, the fisherman fishes, the warriors protect, the tailor clothes, the chef cooks and no man, woman or child goes without anything.

Knowledge is power.
Power corupts.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

To with hold knowledge or to "charge", "barter", or other is to keep the haves powerful and the have nots weak.
For this is the path to the darkside.
For this plants seeds of seperation. It builds the foundation for the house of corruption.

When i saw this thread and the others my first emotion was to "pay" you for a subscription and then repost everything posted here in another forum i would make for free so that those of us who barley get time to get online could have access to this and other knowledge.
What if i came here after the subscription was iplimented and free dc energy was not released here or anywhere? What then? Would this knowledge be lost to worlds past forever?
What if there are people out there that have even greater knowledge to share but may be living a life or hiding in a life that would greatly benifit us.

So i stop that train of thought. I sit back and reflect on that former feeling of, "i've never wanted for anything" and i now say this:

I offer all that i am to help this cause.
If someone is hungry i will feed them.
If someone is naked i will cloth them.
If someone is scared i will comfort them.

Bill, Kerry, what you need is help. Not money.
I have run 5 seperate businesses and had what i thought was a life once.
But it is meaningless. If all this is to come to pass then money IS useless.
To charge money for knowledge of a world that will most likely NOT be based on money but what one can do for the community is a fundamental mind f**k from the start.

I left my fake life and dove head first into this one.
I now walk with god, not behind him or in front of him.
I let the human spirit of us all guide me.
And even now as i write this i am contempt with the life that is to come.

I beleive in the both of you. You would not be doing this if you were not meant to. I believe you are just and have love in your hearts.
Your purpose is to be a beacon of light so others will be able to stear their weary ships into the shore.

If the light is only visible to those that pay for it then we are lost.

What am i saying?
I'm saying that i offer up all that i am to your cause.
We can do it seperatly or we can work together.
There is strength in numbers.
I have already made dvd's and began to hand them out to everyone that will accept one. My friends at first then everyone.
What i know and what i am is a solid driving force of truth.
All that i am is for one purpose and one purpose only, to serve us.
That is my choice, that is what i asked for at 12.

I am moving to sedona Arizona and will get a full time job and still take on CGI jobs and poor every single dollor into this venture of yours if this is what it takes to see my, our (our as in the worlds) dream come true.
This is what i offer.


All For One & One For All
Son Of Man

[KassandraLoves]

asking for money is an error, period.

I agree. This information sharing must ABSOLUTELY BE FREE. We cannot SELL this message! If we are trying to be all about the freedom of information, then why do we tie ourselves to a PAID site to share?

To SELL the important information of others will be like trying to Run tied to a pole. Itll give us something to do but we will get no where.

No one will get share the info *unless they shell out* and we will be right back where we started, crying out for free information sharing.

Money is useless. Its fake, its an illusion. The information is REAL. And unfortunately on this path, we WILL eventually pay for the information, with much more than colored paper. How do we know there arent already really important people we need to hear from that cant come out as a whistleblower and cannot link themselves to paying for a site??

Even if I had the money, I dont think id buy it. Its not the amount that matters to me its the principal. Pay to play? We already pay to play...

[Dantheman62]

You know what you should do Bill and Kerry, change the wording from subscription to donation!, then give it three weeks and if not enough is donated to cover everything then close the forum down!!!! I've heard about every f.......ng philosophical bu...s...t reason on earth here in this thread. For those that can't afford to donate, it's o.k. I feel ya! For those posting other sites to go to for free, f....k you!, what about respect and a little loyalty towards Bill and Kerry! this is their house god damn it. And to historycircus, sorry everybody including me hijacked your thread. Sorry for the f......ng language but it's called being real! F....k people, it's called LOYALTY and RESPECT to Bill and Kerry.

[GregorArturo]

Your getting there Bill, just a little further and we'll really talking soon.


:roll1:

Responding to this and Bill's comment on sarcasm.

STOP! EVERYONE JUST STOP!

Do you believe in a world where a child can be born into a healthy environment with free education and equal chances to grow up into a beautiful and enlightened individual? Do you?

This is what the elections do to us. Friends that are close and dear to you being torn apart by bull sh*t. We have the same beliefs deep down. We want change. We want truth. We want to be loved.

These times are hard. The powers at be don't need to bring down this site by physically shutting it down. We are doing it ourselves with this pestering and bickering. It gets us no where. You are human. I am human. Even more importantly, we are all human (And above that, we are all thinking entities).

I've stated my positions in as much as a positive manner as possible not to infuriate people. The people on Avalon on some of the most good-hearted honest individuals I have ever met. We are surrounded by beauty and so many seem to forget it as you encompass yourself with hate and fear.

This world makes me so depressed at time, but I am always reminded of the beauty it shares with me in every prevailing moment. Don't let the latter overcome the former, otherwise you will be stuck in that dark lonely mindset that plagues the world continuously day in and day out.

I want to share a little bit more of my perspective here. A personal story with my life that I hope will shed some light. During the summer in Maine, I perform downtown more than several times a week with my fire dancing. I spend money on fuel and on the excess food for the calories for my performances. I set out a hat, and do my thing.

To many, it may seem that hat is my purpose, to get by, to feed myself, and so forth. That hat is seemly there for the form of generosity and respect. I am there to create beauty, to be apart of beauty, to fall into the moment as my feet dance to the music. But even more importantly, I want to share that beauty with the world. Someone walking home from a depressing day at work, picks up the far off sounds of Sigur Ros playing in the distance. The hypnotizing music attracts them to a square where they see myself moving ever so gracefully to the music with the awe of fire spinning around me. And for a moment, a single moment, they forget about the ******** in life, their troubles, their sorrows, and they smile as the beauty encompasses every aspect of their existence, even if for only a millisecond.

That is why I do what I do. Please people, please, remember the simple truths. They are the intangible friend that is always standing by your side, someone who you do not have to question your faith in.

So right now, I ask one thing. Just smile.

[IronWoman]

Goodby to all, i will keep reading, but no more posting.
I would not like to be put on the list for help with payment or free posting as im not one for a free ride (unless in a ufo (snigger)).

Love to all :wub2:
same goes for me!

=..(

Goodbye avalon..
sniff*

[Seeker Mom]

What is ironic to me is that I'd gladly pay for the whistleblower video interviews and other inside information by Bill and Kerry, but I wouldn't have any interest in paying to be a member of this forum or any other -- ever.

I appreciate all the work Bill and Kerry have done. I've learned a lot from Project Camelot over the past year and have trememdous respect for the both of them. But fighting over subscriptions to the forum is harming their reputations, I fear. I don't think this conversation should go on much longer for it isn't in anyone's best interest to continue.

From all my years on the net I can tell you it is never wise for the 'talent,' so to speak, to mingle with the 'fans.' It never ends well. (Yes, I admit I was once so blind that I was a member of an American Idol's site -- it embarrasses me to the core to even remember those days.) :roll1:

Good luck everyone. I'll be around hoping for the best until the proverbial plug is pulled.

[GoingToFast]

what Bill and Kerry is asking of us in money is not much, the whole A-team is sitting all over the world moderating this forum that alone must cost a small bundle and the traveling to do the interviews and research must cost a bigger bundle.
I believe that some of you are confusing this with the likes of Commander-Adama who gives absolutely nothing of substance to you and ask for money in return, that is not what PC/PA is about.

[bluestix]

If you need more money for Camelot then why don't you do some interviews with useful people like Dave Lawton, Ravi, John Bedini, Stefan for OU forum, panacea-bocaf, or any of the other people that have really useful information and are willing to share it.

Put those interviews on DVD and sell them for $25.

I will buy them all.

I don't even care if it's just a crappy webcam interview done on Messenger.

[micjer]

My 2 cents,

I think I would prefer to make a donation to keep it going. I would pay a membership, but if there is no-one left on here, I can talk to myself without having to post it on-line.

I see both sides of the problem. I don't expect Bill and Kerry to cover all the expenses, but I would hate for the membership to drop away off.

[Orion Morris]

Yeah I would throw down even 100 bucks to keep it the way it is... I dont want to see the content drop... even if it filters out some of the less needed and less serious members... The fourm should stay original.

[KathyT]

My suggestion, is why doesn't Project Camelot, through the moderators (and Bill and Kerry ) do a fund raising drive like Public Broadcasting stations do it?

That way it is voluntary... and with enough convincing... you should be able to justify your case for seeking more contributions.

Please consider this...

[Myplanet2]

since some people seem to read only the last post or two before hitting the post button, let me jump in with the umpteenth reiteration of the fact that.....the information is and will remain free. There is no intention to sell any information. Everything on Camelot remains freely available. Everything posted here remains freely available to everyone. Anyone can come here to the forum and read everything that's been posted. That doesn't change. All the information available for free now, will be available for free after subscription.

[Northern Boy]

I`d like to pay but times are tough and getting tougher.... say why don`t we band together and ask the Treasurer for for a bail out

[Swanny]

since some people seem to read only the last post or two before hitting the post button, let me jump in with the umpteenth reiteration of the fact that.....the information is and will remain free. There is no intention to sell any information. Everything on Camelot remains freely available. Everything posted here remains freely available to everyone. Anyone can come here to the forum and read everything that's been posted. That doesn't change. All the information available for free now, will be available for free after subscription.

But if 90% of the people that post can't what new stuff will there be to look at???

[micjer]

But if 90% of the people that post can't what new stuff will there be to look at???

my thoughts exactly!!:wall:

[Orion Morris]

Word dan!




you know what you should do bill and kerry, change the wording from subscription to donation!, then give it three weeks and if not enough is donated to cover everything then close the forum down!!!! I've heard about every f.......ng philosophical bu...s...t reason on earth here in this thread. For those that can't afford to donate, it's o.k. I feel ya! For those posting other sites to go to for free, f....k you!, what about respect and a little loyalty towards bill and kerry! This is their house god damn it. And to historycircus, sorry everybody including me hijacked your thread. Sorry for the f......ng language but it's called being real! F....k people, it's called loyalty and respect to bill and kerry.

[Flying Pyramid]

I did not want to post this openly, i was hopeing people would read between the lines and "get it". But in case no one has or no one will read my above post let me be rediculously clear:

You all believe the same thing about oneness and energy, yes?
That means ALL things not just the ones you like, yes?
You see them, they see you, yes?
MONEY IS THIER TOOL!

My simple message was to Bill & Kerry but at the same time i hoped others would get it.

The darkside rides with you.
It knows what you know.
Change can not come from knowledge.
Change comes from the choice to have love.
ANY and all knowledge from here will change nothing!
Only the choice you free willingly make to help others in anyway shape or form can induce change.
THE SIMPLE PURPOSE of this forum and Project Camelot at it's core it to let YOU know that you are not alone in this choice.
Others struggle with you.
Others know and want what you know and want.
YOU will not make the choice alone.

The subscription path is only a test by the powers that be to see how committed they are to thier cause.
The first one into battle will take the most damage.
They are leaders of thier cause.
They serve a purpose.
They have been, are, and allways will be tested in thier conviction.
They asked a question to the cosmos about thier stuggles on thier path.
And they recieved the answer.

The point of all of this is to change the negative entities to positive.
In doing so you must sacrifice yourself to your own cause.
You must be willing to go the distance or drop out of the race.
If you can not command, you must obey.

In short everybody, if you want change you must change yourself first.
You need to go halfway around the world to do something but you have not the means to get there, then look up to the sky, dig deep into oneself and ask for help and ye SHALL recieve.
You need to go to africa to do something, hey you might just have a friend in africa who will let you stay there while in town.
If you hunger, someone will feed you.
It's all about choices.
Wants and needs share a thin wall.

It's not what you have it's what you give.
It not the life you choose it's the life you live.

I have only been here one week and i already know all of this.
I know who Bill & Kerry are.
What troubles they face Inside and out.
This is one way, only one path they are concidering.
Only one path out of many laid before them.

One must believe in the power of love.

Will i still visit if the forum goes paid? Of course.
Will i still post insight and new technologies? I won't be able to, but where there is a will there is a way.
What one knows, all know.

Peace, Love & Light

[Heretic]

man...

I am just astounded by how many absolutely poor and destitute for money people here really are, it is almost beyond belief, because I am pretty damn poor myself and one dollar a month is WELL inside my financial means

you can afford a computer, and internet access fee but 1 measly ole dollar breaks some of you people? Methinks people are fighting the principle more than their pocketbooks here

but then I cannot really know the financial means of anyone here at all, thus my opinion is subjective at the best, and I apologize, sympathize, and even relate to those who are really in a bad spot financially and hope the best for you and hope you all can stay

a pack of smokes a month?

I can do that

I will be paying the full $5

[Orion Morris]

Great post!
I was just checking the other fourm that everybody is switching to and the vibe is totally different....
Their is a thread that says bring down avalon! People are crazy!
We have to do anything we can....

Let us dontate first... I will go into by beer and smoke budget to pull out a hundred buck and donate it...

Give me the adress I will send it tomorrow...

We cant ruin this place!!!

We can donate... We can figure this out.... fund raisers... radio... come to my college we will put you on the air and have a telethon!





To Bill & Kerry From The Son Of Man:

I go by many names but the one i am is S.O.M. (Son Of Man).
I was given a mission, a purpose at the age of 12.
That Free DC Energy be released 4 years before 2012.
[... content of large quite chopped - see forum guidelines]

[Anchor]

I agree. This information must ABSOLUTELY BE FREE. We cannot SELL this message! If we are trying to be all about the freedom of information, then why do we tie ourselves to a PAID site to "freely" share?

To SELL this important information will be like trying to Run tied to a pole.

No one will get the info and we will be right back where we started, crying out for free information.

Money is useless. Its fake, its an illusion. The information is REAL. And infortunately on this path, we WILL eventually pay for the information, with much more than colored paper.

Eeven if I had the money, I dont think id buy it.


The information posted on the forum is/will be free. If you are not subscribed you will still be able to read the posts on the forum.

Please read the announcement again before making long posts that are completely wrong.

What you will get as a subscriber is the ability to post more of it.

A..

[Xhaosis]

Nothing personal but I am supporter MUCH already... Lights love,the begging's of many more. Perhaps if I was single and this was my only platform to see the light, yet how do I need you? I do not, and 5 dollars is part of my breath whispering in so many's ears here already, if you want my blood perhaps, if it was to keep you alive, yet as in any failure,, it will not keep you alive. The value of my Five dollars keeps up the road signs in this cantrip where no sense has its final divide. In other wards I will be in the ashes, and god forbid you.. Dragging away the taste of me, and others who could not pay the price. A tragedy INDEED.. Don't forget to wash the sheets... For what you are claiming is a tragic ending.. Yet indeed you will save the day.... At last..

Peace

[alienarena]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but I have some webmaster experience and successful websites with a lot a traffic such as this one can pull in a mint from advertising. There is no need for paid subscriptions if you set aside some space on your website for things like google ads or space to sell advertising.

[Deoxyan]

quite strange to have to pay to talk. the word free donations would have sounded much better.

We have to pay to talk here?, that´s major ********, sorry.


Keep you all this: you have to pay to talk.


smells very bad.

[Xhaosis]

does not sound like a message board to me. A donations link should be open.. I am sure many people who have lots of power will not have a problem giving some of it to you.

The scholar of all schools meets a man, who has no education.. He tells him I know everything, Money has paid to teach.. The pathetic man who has no education tells hims something cold... Also out of place and left behind all alone... It was something he did not know.. It left him to wander in the dark for the rest of his life.. Wishing on stray stars... To be different you must be different.. I feel your pain, it is mine as well.. It is mine as well..

PEACE

[KassandraLoves]

The information posted on the forum is/will be free. If you are not subscribed you will still be able to read the posts on the forum.

Please read the announcement again before making long posts that are completely wrong.

What you will get as a subscriber is the ability to post more of it.

A..


Im referring to that....after re-reading it I see my err.

I mean our "collective" information.

I get what everyones argument is. I understand that we need to keep bill and kerry afloat....But there are better ways in my opinion....

I am going around and around in my OWN head about this. And its NOT about the dollar amount....its more than that....

I dunno....Consider me speechless on the subject for now...

[truth-freedom]

Hello to All,

I would just like to make a couple of comments.
First of all, I cannot help but feel a bit of discouragement when I read the posts on the 6 pages of this tread. We should all, at this point, realize the importance of ALL OF US coming together and communicating in a mature fashion. But it does reveal, clearly, that many of US, WE who profess to seek TRUTH, have much work to do in recognizing the polarity of Fear and Love and then choosing the latter.
When One has conquered One's innermost Fears, then One is able to master One's emotions and then, truly, change the world. Soooo many unmastered emotions, as I too experience discouragement.
For darkness to exist, the Light must be extinguished. Are we to allow this to happen?
Lastly, I would just like to say that I recognize and appreciate Bill and Kerry for their work and their desire to seek out and reveal Truth. I understand that, in the world in which we live, the work they do requires funding. In that regard, I echo the suggestions of other members to at least consider funding by DONATIONS as opposed to SUBSCRIPTION. (And yes, I am aware that with the subscription situation viewing is still at no cost.) There are many here, including myself, who would like to financially contribute and have no philosophical objection to doing so. For those who either do not want to, or are unable to, contribute financially, let's recognize their contributions of information, ideas and opinions as valueable assets. Either way, the money raised will be the same amount. It's just that with Donations, we don't lose anyone's input or cause anyone to feel less valueable.
Well wishes to all.

[Myplanet2]

But if 90% of the people that post can't what new stuff will there be to look at???

actually, the vast minority of posters here, have contributed the vast majority of value. I expect nothing much to change, except perhaps a LOT of mod work will be reduced.
:naughty:

[GregorArturo]

Truth in freedom. (http://www.trilulilu.ro/axlio/3b71e99dc666e8?video_google_com)

(I have to throw in this one too! (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/882018/braveheart_freedom_speech/))



EDIT NOTE: Just discovered the rule on 'naked links', and didn't want to ruin the beauty of my last post by adding captions so here they are hahaha. Both are clips from braveheart. The first being the last scene with Gibson's death, and the latter being his speech before battle)

[GregorArturo]

Hello to All,

I would just like to make a couple of comments.
First of all, I cannot help but feel a bit of discouragement when I read the posts on the 6 pages of this tread. We should all, at this point, realize the importance of ALL OF US coming together and communicating in a mature fashion. But it does reveal, clearly, that many of US, WE who profess to seek TRUTH, have much work to do in recognizing the polarity of Fear and Love and then choosing the latter.
When One has conquered One's innermost Fears, then One is able to master One's emotions and then, truly, change the world. Soooo many unmastered emotions, as I too experience discouragement.
For darkness to exist, the Light must be extinguished. Are we to allow this to happen?
Lastly, I would just like to say that I recognize and appreciate Bill and Kerry for their work and their desire to seek out and reveal Truth. I understand that, in the world in which we live, the work they do requires funding. In that regard, I echo the suggestions of other members to at least consider funding by DONATIONS as opposed to SUBSCRIPTION. (And yes, I am aware that with the subscription situation viewing is still at no cost.) There are many here, including myself, who would like to financially contribute and have no philosophical objection to doing so. For those who either do not want to, or are unable to, contribute financially, let's recognize their contributions of information, ideas and opinions as valueable assets. Either way, the money raised will be the same amount. It's just that with Donations, we don't lose anyone's input or cause anyone to feel less valueable.
Well wishes to all.

I completely agree. I will state this, if the subscription process was to suddenly cease and fall through, I will gladly do my best to make a contribution to Project Camelot at some point. I will not however submit to a subscription service. They are indeed two differing philosophies.

I will admit I feel bad for someone else paying my subscription but it is of greater benefit that my ideas are shared with all of you then with myself and local community as is.

[KassandraLoves]

... For those who either do not want to, or are unable to, contribute financially, let's recognize their contributions of information, ideas and opinions as valueable assets. Either way, the money raised will be the same amount. It's just that with Donations, we don't lose anyone's input or cause anyone to feel less valueable.
Well wishes to all.

I LOVED your post on this. Well said. I couldnt have said it better...literally, I had to edit my post just to have it make sense...

The contribution IS the information that EVERYONE can give, with or without a dollar in hand...

[Anchor]

Im referring to that....after re-reading it I see my err.

I mean our "collective" information.

I get what everyones argument is. I understand that we need to keep bill and kerry afloat....But there are better ways in my opinion....

I am going around and around in my OWN head about this. And its NOT about the dollar amount....its more than that....

I dunno....Consider me speechless on the subject for now...

KassandraLoves,

Thanks!

Please dont be speechless :)

To Everyone,

It is a big change, thats for sure. The good thing is that it is not a catastrophic change. People can take thier time in deciding what to do and if they want to pay or not. There is no cause for hasty action.

Those people doing "dummy spits" and saying "I'm off" etc, are either grandstanding, attempting to subvert the confidence of others, or maybe they didn't read the announcement closely enough, or are simply not thinking things through in a calm and rational way. I am sure there are other reasons I didnt think of, but I certainly can't think of any positive ones.

Everyone will be able to read the forum.

Take some time to think and internalize what has been proposed. I hope you all will see it really isnt that bad.

A..

[pinkpixiexx]

Hi everyone :original:

I found this forum a few weeks ago and lurked for most of this time. I was pleased to find a forum where everyone was one the same level and where I can continue to learn and increase the knowledge I have already acquired from surfing the web and reading over the past few years. Other stuff I have believed in for most of my life. There are many other sites out there but I was particularly drawn to the vibe here and felt it covered the greatest scope of beliefs.
I finally signed in recently as occasionally I felt I had a point or 2 I could add but I am not someone who will be posting a great wealth of knowledge here.
However, even though this is my first post here I feel a little saddened that such a great forum which is supposed to have been set up in order for all of us awakened people to share info, discuss the different take on what is happening...and most importantly, or so i thought, to be able to help each other on how to be prepared and organize ourselves into a ground crew!
This subscription seems to me to be a real slap in the face of what I believed to be the purpose of the Avalon forum.
Could the subscription not be just for Project Camelot and its forum and leave this forum alone so as to be able to serve the purpose I thought it was intended....ie... a place for us all to advise , prepare and organize into local groups to help each other should the worst happen??!!

I do believe that having to pay a subscription may turn some people away which seems to defeat the whole point of this forum!!...or maybe ask for donations as some have suggested?

with love :original:

[Tara]

Hey Bill and Kerry,

How about creating a donation meter with the amount you need over whatever period of time, with a click on to donate. I am more than happy to donate. I do not want to see these valuable contributors of ideas and info leave us. You could try it. I am willing to pay for a subscription or donate, but I do not want to see so many wonderful people leave because of it. Love to all.

[Donald]

can someone post a link to where they have announced they are now charging to belong to the site?

It's on the main page of Avalon : http://projectcamelot.org/

[Donald]

The minimum subscription is $1 a month, - which is $12 per year, or the price of two hamburgers.

Oh my God! Where do you buy your hamburgers! That's 6$ a piece!

Just kidding :)

But Seriously, I'm out of work right now. I keep every dime I can save. That's not to say I will not be back someday (hopefylly before december 21st 2012!!!)

[StClair]

Dear Bill & Kerry
Dear Friends here

Havent had time to check in here often
since i have to take care of my zone at
http://stclairzone.ning.com plus my work

Have caught up with a few things here
ok I will send you funds, tell me how,
and where to, and we get it done ok.

I dont see any reason why people make a fuss
either they see the point and contribute to it,
or they dont, and then so be it, it is one of these typical moments,
where action without thought in choiceless awareness is everything...
and all words are useless, meaningless concepts in disturbed timelines,

why dont people just donate immediately without further ado?

Francie Leone Jones pointed out many things I agree with...
well she is correct, people will soon find out what FREE means.

Let me know how best to send you some funds to get started ok -

Apart from that, I feel you can go ahead with the projects such as DVDs series, and movie plans, and the book/s, and the list of donors, sponsors, advertizing banners etc. I am sure sure some good books and new technology enterprises would not mind being seen as paid for ads on your sites. As long as everything is consistent with what your work is about, these things can be handled easily.

Or / and otherwise make an inner circle radiant electronic zone only for those who like your ideas and immediately act on it. I find it strange that people dare discussing your house rules while inside your home. But such is life in the "new paradigm of obama" timeline... you will soon see more weirdness and high strangeness.



Peace,
Very best to you

Michael St.Clair

[Donald]

Why don't you try the t-shirts first because not only is it a money maker but think what if I see someone I know or even don't know wearing one, I would go straight up to them and have a chat about what's going on.

I had a few ideas for slogans to be put in these t-shirts (in both french and english). I think I developped a good concept. I wanted to call this Ascension Clothing Company but I don't have the money to start that company (:

But Both Camelot and Avalon are welcome to these ideas. Here they are (imagine them on a t-shirt in front) :

1. Is Nibiru coming?
Est-ce que Nibiru s’en vient ?

2. Ce qui est en haut est comme ce qui est en bas.
Ce qui est en haut est comme ce qui est en bas. (to be translated)

3. Change your reality.
Changez votre réalité.

4. Reality is only what you believe it to be.
La réalité est seulement ce que vous croyez qu’elle est.

5. Where will you be on December 21st 2012?
Où serez-vous le 21 décembre 2012 ?

6. The aliens are coming! The aliens are coming!
Les extra-terrestres arrivent ! Les extra-terrestres arrivent !

7. Are you really there?
Êtes-vous vraiment là ?

8. Am I really here?
Suis-je vraiment ici ?

9. Dream yourself into a new reality.
Rêvez à une nouvelle réalité et plongez-y.

10. Love and light are powerful. Be both.
L’amour et la lumière sont puissants. Soyez les deux.

11. Leave the Bigfoot alone.
Laissez le Bigfoot tranquille.

12. Roswell, New-Mexico: What really happened?
Roswell, New-Mexico : Qu’est-ce qui est vraiment arrivé ?

13. Nothing is real but this t-shirt.
Rien n’est réel à part ce t-shirt.

14. Leave Nessie alone.
Laissez le monstre du Loch Ness tranquille.

15. We are therefore I am. I am therefore we are.
Nous sommes donc je suis. Je suis donc nous sommes.

16. Thoughts change reality. Think about it.
Les pensées changent la réalité. Pensez-y.

17. Do your own research.
Faîtes votre propre recherche.

And in the bacK :

http://www.divinecosmos.com

http://projectcamelot.org/index.html

http://projectavalon.net/

What do you think?

Donald

[crowmirror]

2. Ce qui est en haut est comme ce qui est en bas.
Ce qui est en haut est comme ce qui est en bas. (to be translated)

as above so below...


:thumb_yello:there done

[Donald]

Those of you who get your meals and other things from your parents... what are you going to do when they're gone? Maybe it's time to start looking into that?

I think yo should apologize for this one my friend. I personnaly relied a whole lot on my family for the last year and half and that's not because I wanted or planed to. I had health problems. Thank God for that wonderful family of mine. I'm usualy a hard working man (I'm mangement) but as i said, the last 18 months have been really hard on me.

I do not know the situation of everyone here and it's none of my bussiness. But I'm sure you would find other people with stories like mine.

[GregorArturo]

Donald, that is great and you got several laughs out of me. I am so going to make the 2012 T-Shirt. It's too good! Those are things I could so sell at my school. They speak alot of truth.

With StClair's post, I will admit I am disappointed. I have become more disappointed with several of Project Camelot's interviewees lately as I use to resonate rather strongly with them but that has since changed [slowly].

It seems the forum on this issue is split rather decisively and I find it as futile as the New Agers and Christians going against each other. I will note that those who have stated the notion of 'principal' I feel are indeed all of the philosopher type. Many people cannot see past their viewpoint and truly understand what we are stating in terms of prinicipal, honor, and universal truths. The intangible (honor/principal) far outweighs the tangible (survival/access).

When I was in middle school, I remember looking up the code of chivalry, printing it out, and reading it many times. I had no bible as a kid, but I had this. It was one of the few things that resonated true with me. Heck, in the few years I've had MySpace, I've never changed the occupation from knight. It was not in terms of I wanted to be a hero, but the beliefs I held at the deep core of who I am.

I will state that many of these ideals still seem to be ahead of their times, but with that, time will tell. I will also reiterate this viewpoint in that I find it much MUCH more important in the times we have recently moved into (sixth day) that we network with each other and develop meaningful relationships rather than being presented with new information. I feel much more information can be divulged more rapidly amongst us, especially in person, eye to eye, and that we need to engage and act, versus sit and think.

[Donald]

2. Ce qui est en haut est comme ce qui est en bas.
Ce qui est en haut est comme ce qui est en bas. (to be translated)

as above so below...


:thumb_yello:there done

Thanks :)

[crowmirror]

Thanks :)

no problem:thumb_yello:

Ho! Mitakuye Oyasin

"We Are All Related"

[Nebula]

Its interesting to see the different thought waves collide on this simple but important subject. Let's face it, we are human beings, therefore we will agree or disagree depending on our perception and situation. But the fact remains, Project Camelot/Avalon needs your help. I will take the middle ground and say this! ... forget the word subscription! Out of the goodnes of your being with love and gratitude, would you all please donate towards this endevour and lets all help each other!

[Dantheman62]

Thanks Micheal St.Clair!!

[DaveR]

Dear friends:

I read this whole thread and have a couple ideas for fund raising.

1. Pay by the post. If you have something good to say, pop 50 cents to put it up. This will cut down on the trolls and one word comments, which are cute (not the trolls) but really not all that useful. Thereby the quality of commentary goes up and the detritus goes down. If you are seeking information, can't you pay 50 cents? People spend more on a phone call and then to only one source. So you pay to post your question, gather a bunch of private replies (direct e-mails, for instance) and post a cumulative response. Whew, a whole dollar and you've given HUGE, HUGE to the community here. Then go back to lurking.

2. Visit Red Ice Creations. They have a subscription model that I think works well. This would be for PC. The first half of the interview is free and the second is by subscription. The financially strapped people (me) get a bunch of good information free and those who can pay get more. Yeah, I know, "He who has, gets...". It's not exactly fair, but what is?

I agree with those who say the value of this forum is the members, but not every post has value for many. I saw one post in this thread that contained a single period. No value there!

Bandwidth is not free. Travel is not free. Neither are cameras, tape, editing systems, hotels, rental cars, meals, and all the rest. We will need to contribute financially somehow, or the thing cannot continue.

2 ideas @ 2 cents each - 4 cents please!

Dave

[whitecrow]

...I think there are better options out there than this...

Gregor, your entire post was well-put. The vote was at least four-to-one against subscription, and they went for the money. The majority will leave, and they will be left with their private admiration society, which is perhaps what they were looking for all along. If it pays for their world tours, God bless 'em.

It's okay guys, you aren't the first and you won't be the last. But it's a sure thing that no one who's so stuck in the old paradigms will lead in the direction of the new.

Guys, it's been great...and I guess you all know about Astro Vera (http://www.astrovera.com/forum/index.php). I've set up a special email address for keeping in touch with folks I've met here...it's wc@indigodave.com.

[RSF]

Care about you'll (members)-- but stop whining. And Bill, Just tell us where to send the M/O to?
Very happy to be a PC/PA member and a few bucks a year to help support your effort is fine with me.:original:

Broke but happy,
RSF

[Kerry Cassidy]

Dear Bill & Kerry
Dear Friends here

Havent had time to check in here often
since i have to take care of my zone at
http://stclairzone.ning.com plus my work

Have caught up with a few things here
ok I will send you funds, tell me how,
and where to, and we get it done ok.

I dont see any reason why people make a fuss
either they see the point and contribute to it,
or they dont, and then so be it, it is one of these typical moments,
where action without thought in choiceless awareness is everything...
and all words are useless, meaningless concepts in disturbed timelines,

why dont people just donate immediately without further ado?

Francie Leone Jones pointed out many things I agree with...
well she is correct, people will soon find out what FREE means.

Let me know how best to send you some funds to get started ok -

Apart from that, I feel you can go ahead with the projects such as DVDs series, and movie plans, and the book/s, and the list of donors, sponsors, advertizing banners etc. I am sure sure some good books and new technology enterprises would not mind being seen as paid for ads on your sites. As long as everything is consistent with what your work is about, these things can be handled easily.

Or / and otherwise make an inner circle radiant electronic zone only for those who like your ideas and immediately act on it. I find it strange that people dare discussing your house rules while inside your home. But such is life in the "new paradigm of obama" timeline... you will soon see more weirdness and high strangeness.



Peace,
Very best to you

Michael St.Clair

Thank you Michael for your kind offer.

Here is the information:

Mailbox address:

PROJECT CAMELOT and PROJECT AVALON
638 Lindero Canyon Road
Suite 277
Oak Park
CA 91377-5457, USA

FedEx and other secure courier packages can be received there, as well as regular mail.

DONATIONS BY CHECK OR MONEY ORDER ARE ACCEPTABL.

PLEASE MAKE PAYABLE TO:

PROJECT AVALON

All donations will go to further our work at Project Camelot and Project Avalon.

We have registered the trade name for Project Avalon and have obtained a Federal ID# as required by U.S. law.

Please note: We are NOT a tax exempt non profit company... therefore you may not be able to file your donation as tax deductible.

You can also use the PAYPAL DONATION BUTTONS LOCATED ON THE PROJECT CAMELOT WEBSITE located at the bottom of most every page.

Best wishes,

Kerry

[clearlyalec]

Bill & Kerry,
Intent is the point, correct?
There is no option to this, and this I for one understand: As members of the "Ground Crew," we gotta pay our dues. You two do this for all of us, and it's not too much to ask for help.
You'll get my subscription.
This Unified Field Theory of Nassim Haramein is hitting me hard. I love it.
Any hopes/intention of speaking with this fella?
All sortsa love,
Alec

[clearlyalec]

Guys, there is so much to say. How to begin?

[capreycorn]

so the plans have changed?

the word "donate" is what St. Clair uses.
not "fee".
somebody mentioned a fund-meter to show the money received and what`s still needed! brilliant idea..put it next to de donation-pay-pal-box.

[WalkingTurtle]

I haven't contributed very much to this forum but if anyone has to pay for sharing his/her knowledge, experiences and wisdom anywhere I won't be checking this forum anymore. Think about this: Sometimes a stranger just passing by and leaving a comment on a subject, can have a really big impact on a discussion and can immediately change the course of thinking of all involved.

It's a matter of principles I think. We have to pay for learning and even for giving our knowledge to others all our life. That's absolutely against any principles we all stand for, don't we? We want to change that, don't we?

Just a thought,
WT

[capreycorn]

Think about this: Sometimes a stranger just passing by and leaving a comment on a subject, can have a really big impact on a discussion and can immediately change the course of thinking of all involved.
We have to pay for giving our knowledge to others. That's absolutely against any principles we all stand for, don't we? We want to change that, don't we?

Just a thought,
WT
:thumb_yello:
ah yes, i wanted to say something like that too..:sweatdrop:
..a donation "box" wouldn`t be so limiting..

[Artycarl]

I have given this a lot of thought recently. Originally I voted not to have subscriptions as I was worried that some people would not be able to fully contribute here just because of financial restrictions and that would have been terribly sad. But in all honesty there is not a great deal of choice. If you make it donation only...even with the best will in the world most people wont bother to donate...that is just the nature of it. So subscription it is.

I am happy to subscribe but the two tier system again makes me concerned that some members will be made to feel like second class citizens.

I suspect our numbers will dwindle somewhat and unfortunately that is inevitable but if it allows Bill and Kerry to continue doing what they do then I think it is a very small financial sacrifice.

[capreycorn]

I have given this a lot of thought recently. Originally I voted not to have subscriptions as I was worried that some people would not be able to fully contribute here just because of financial restrictions and that would have been terribly sad. But in all honesty there is not a great deal of choice. If you make it donation only...even with the best will in the world most people wont bother to donate...that is just the nature of it. So subscription it is.

I am happy to subscribe but the two tier system again makes me concerned that some members will be made to feel like second class citizens.

I suspect our numbers will dwindle somewhat and unfortunately that is inevitable but if it allows Bill and Kerry to continue doing what they do then I think it is a very small financial sacrifice.

all right, but then make it like a parking-meter..where you put 50cent and can park your car for a certain time..if you throw in more, you can have more "time"...if payment ceases, the accounts shouldn`t be cancelled, just put to a "coma" until some more cash flows...(maybe)

i just really hate it when i have to cancel a subscription, so that i won`t get charged any more..(my wife did that with the wrong company and it was a real pain to get out of it)... that`s why I don`t subscribe..:original:

ps: there should be 2 possibilities...the parking meter type (for those with little cash flow) and permanent membership (until you quit..)
pps: there should be a 3rd possibility like a "forum-time-counter" (like credit)...post now pay later...and add to it a system, where good posts can be awarded by the richer with penny donations... does it make sense? (of course some other member would have to vouch for the one going for option 3 post now pay later...

[StClair]

Hi Kerry
we do that ok
done deal...




*


Dear Friends

my donation leaves Europe to reach Kerry next week

meanwhile here is the spiritual conspiracy at work
if you like you can become a part of it also

** http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7888 **

http://zenofstars.org/image/Mystery.jpg
Peace
M StC.

[franciejones]

I am following Michael's example and donating today (as soon as the donate button works---I pm-ed Colin about it)

I must admit that I have been feeling guilty for not sending money to Camelot prior to this...I have visited PC for about two years and a donation is LONG overdue for me...

Please accept my apology Bill and Kerry....I was being selfish (very true). I love you both and dearly appreciate the work you are doing. My thoughts are with you always.

Francie

[franciejones]

Side note:

I dontated thru Camelot site instead as that button works just fine :)

[GregorArturo]

so the plans have changed?

the word "donate" is what St. Clair uses.
not "fee".
somebody mentioned a fund-meter to show the money received and what`s still needed! brilliant idea..put it next to de donation-pay-pal-box.

It's like them changing 'bailout' to 'rescue plan'. Hmmm... Namaste.

[RSF]

Hi Kerry,
Thanks for posting the Donation address. By Monday I'll have sent a contribution.
---
Hi Members, I was absolutely blown away when PC interviewed and published:
http://www.projectcamelot.org/george_green_2_sept_2008.html
Sept 2/08.

At the time I didn't believe -- now I do !!

RSF

[PTTurboe]

I don't really mind paying a small fee, but my issue is with how you pay, and then your anonymity has gone, and even though it will only goto PC/PA I don't like the idea of paypal having these details which can be passed onto third parties, such as those that may use this as a form of databasing.

So I will still read the posts here, but just not be able to post... which is ok I guess.

My thoughts anyway.

:)

wZn


AND EXACTLY MINE.

I own websites and make a ton off of advertising. Some of my sites make thousands a month from Google AdWords.

I always thought this place might be a trap. I can find no info on Bill and Kerry.

When you pay they have you!

Goodbye.....

Good luck.....

And Peace to you all.....

[Myplanet2]

No need to shout. somebody worried about anonymity could send a money order or something. Going to be nice around here pretty soon.

[Bill Ryan]

I can find no info on Bill and Kerry.



You're kidding.... right?

Try the 'Ask Bill and Kerry' thread, for a start. :original:

http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7675

Or the Camelot 'About Us' page.

http://projectcamelot.org/about_us.html

Or any one of dozens of radio interviews, like the one listed here with Paranexus (quite a good one):

http://projectcamelot.org/audio_interviews.html

[slywinkl]

ok, i came bck against my word here to check upp the "news" on this "free open mind o ppl" site.

only to discover u are divide and conqering.

i am laughing my ass off in the sight of all this.

here u all are speaking of freedom, opening minds, helping EVERYONE, getting the truth out.. buuuuut you haf to pay for it.

sound like the this timeframes earth goverment and elites speaking.

and yes i am talkin of u bill and kerry

you haf countless of times talked of justice and gettin the fact and truth out to everyone at any costs, and standing upp against the system that are in failure today.

becouse in the face of truth it is not ONLY you 2, we are all one, remmember that statement?

and yet here you are dividing and conquring, throwing away those who cant give a fictinonal number, a fantasy paper, a metal round thing witch is made upp and created from nothing of our world.

when did this all change? what changed? did we change? did we get to free to disscuss our problems with the world?

or was it the lust for getting onward get passed by the fake worlds one true grip of uss take over? money, cash, credits, numbers that have gotten a "value"?

one thing is pretty obvius, this is becomming more and more the anticrist u all have preached aboot for years, here u are speaking of advertising, donations, getting comanyes in to sponsor you, and making ppl pay to open their mouth.

try putting this to comparement to the goverment u all "oppose" soooo much. u see the ressemblence?

here u are creating a base of fear at its rawest and brutal ever

you have started a place with ppl could come away from fear, and disscuss their inner most secrest that most dont have anyone around in their real life to talk with.
and created a place were ppl could ask questions and even anwser questions from own experience. dont matter if it was a 14 year old or a 50 year old HU-Man who did it, it sparked, it resonated and out came a disscussion many have red and mby even learned from.

but this is at an end, just becouse of a fantasy paper, fantasy number, a created debt from nothingness. the verry thing that many are batteling to get a free world were we can actually share and live in prosperity and co-existance. and above all do what we are here to doo. take care of this planet we live on.

you all was so amazed that it boomed so big in no time

and u speak like priests of new worlds and what we should belive and look into

then you start of limeting the "free word" down by imposing rules
(sounds familiar?)

and now your are cutting down all the freedom by divide and conquer.

this is relly ridiculus. if you cant continue of this YOU bill and kerry have started, then end it, dont go on pushing on free ppl to pay for the truth.

if you relly are so noble and sincere as u have portrayed yourself as this is your path. you started this, you took the choice, you made all of this. u reached into the vastness and created this. then why do you all of a sudden need all unknown creatures to give you something the elites and goverment created to continue?

this is ridiculus, you are becomming the verry thing you all "hate" so much, but cant "live" without.

[RSF]

slywinkl, something's a wee-bit out of whack with your post. Do you have spell and grammar checking ? Sorry, it's just that it really is that bad before I get into your back-ass message content.. garbage.

I came across Project Camelot about four months ago and was startled by the effort and effect of Bill & Kerry's work.
Frankly, when I read some of the nonsense posted by some members, such as the above, it actually makes me chuckle as to how these dudes found there way here? :nono:

RSF

[slywinkl]

ive never followed school, or the ways of this "world".

i follow the earth and me.

and as for the ppl posting "garbage", who are you to say what is garbage? im pretty sure many haf told you that stuff u speak of is ridiculus, but u belive in it. even if you are are 100% sure that u speak the truth, mby some dont belive even 1% of your word, couse they haf to find their own truth, tis is how we are

[RSF]

Sorry. Your right.
RSF

[slywinkl]

no im not right, it is right for me, i dont impose my belif, i merly brings it to the light. then anyone can read and make their own belif if they wish, if not they wont read it and be on their merry way.

[GregorArturo]

slywinkl, something's a wee-bit out of whack with your post. Do you have spell and grammar checking ? Sorry, it's just that it really is that bad before I get into your back-ass message content.. garbage.

RSF, I find that statement to be rather negative and uncalled for. Think of this Chinese proverb:

“Those who do not read are no better off than those who cannot.”

I'm sorry, that man speaks truth, and I am sorry if it appears only transparent and flawed to you. He speaks with passion. You speak with ignorance. Think of what I am saying.

I have been familiar with PC for almost a year now, and they have done tremendously wonderful work. Bill & Kerry are very good-hearted people I feel. However, that does not mean you blindly follow them. Think for yourself, not with the majority.

[GregorArturo]

Sorry. Your right.
RSF

I admire you for this. Namaste.

[jazzgad]

I m not sure if it is moral issue with me of just my guts telling me no
But together with lots of fear mongering in October which in my opinion
Ultimately falls on lap on Bill and Carey ,paying for privilege of posting here
Is a strong no from me .see you on the other side friends .

may the love and light of our infinite creator be with you all.

[RSF]

RSF, I find that statement to be rather negative and uncalled for. Think of this Chinese proverb:

“Those who do not read are no better off than those who cannot.”

I'm sorry, that man speaks truth, and I am sorry if it appears only transparent and flawed to you. He speaks with passion. You speak with ignorance. Think of what I am saying.

I have been familiar with PC for almost a year now, and they have done tremendously wonderful work. Bill & Kerry are very good-hearted people I feel. However, that does not mean you blindly follow them. Think for yourself, not with the majority.

---

Quite right too. My anger got ahead of my senses, as yours.
RSF

[RubyTuesday]

I'm an admin on a smaller forum. We charge $5/year for operating costs and use any leftover to help forum members who go through challenging times (after a vote by the forum members). We've helped buy groceries, pay mortgages, pay medical expenses, send flowers, etc. On that forum, that people pay for, ALL are considered "owners". Admins just do the techie stuff.

Paying implies a sense of entitlement and freedom to say what's on your mind. After reading the numerous threads here, I'm going to propose to the other admins of our board that we set up a widget and do donations instead because times are getting hard for so many financially and we won't have to keep track of who has paid, who hasn't, send out warnings to pay, or ban people from posting.

What bothers me about paying to be here is what this forum will lose. There are MANY people here who don't post a lot but will, from time to time, post a fantastic nugget of info. Many who mostly read won't pay. In return, we lose the information they *could* have provided. It's a very limiting model imo. We won't know what we're missing.

What's wrong with putting up a widget? Sure, people could donate now but why would they if it's still being debated? Some of us are waiting for a decision to be made before we decide to donate. I personally don't want to donate and then find out that people are being shut out for not paying. I wouldn't feel good about my money going towards that.

It's easy peasie to set up a widget. Put the dollar amount and the money will come. If not enough is raised then suspend all posting for a day or two with a message on the front page explaining that operating costs must be met first. I don't think it would come to that, though. I think the money would be raised pretty fast and nobody would feel that they have to beg for someone else to pay their way and others will feel good that they have been able to contribute financially. Win win.

Looking at all the controversy surrounding this issue it seems to me that it's pretty obvious that a paid subscription doesn't "feel good" to many. On a spiritual level I understand that very well. Many of us listen carefully to how we "feel" and avoid that which makes us feel uneasy or just doesn't feel right. This controversy doesn't feel right.

I would also like to say I was a member of another board (a fertility forum) that instituted a paying system- then the mods got heavy handed and were deleting people's posts, even suspected of reading private messages which resulted in banning paying members. Lawyers got involved and many people were refunded their membership dues. Ugly situation for all involved and that site ruined their reputation.

[enacae]

Please keep the forum free to post. I love it here.

[MaskMarvl]

I haven't contributed very much to this forum but if anyone has to pay for sharing his/her knowledge, experiences and wisdom anywhere I won't be checking this forum anymore. Think about this: Sometimes a stranger just passing by and leaving a comment on a subject, can have a really big impact on a discussion and can immediately change the course of thinking of all involved.

It's a matter of principles I think. We have to pay for learning and even for giving our knowledge to others all our life. That's absolutely against any principles we all stand for, don't we? We want to change that, don't we?

Just a thought,
WT

I totally agree... :thumb_yello:

[ADAM KADMON]

After some reflection ~ I believe there is certainly something deeper going on within the psyche of both Bill and Kerry.

Show them love and respect and appreciation for how they've contributed to you. Pray that they will "make it through" this time of tribulation which they face. It is obviously more then monetary -- and the monetary crisis we all face is just a symptom of something deeper.

Despite the fact their decisions are not fully supported by all members here, this is common response "of the people" when their supposed leaders make any big decision. Some praise, some condemn. And politically, leaders will traditionally align themselves with the greater majority...

Obviously that is not the case in this setting, at this time and place. For whatever reason, have faith that it's all perfect in the greater scheme of things -- even if the reasoning of how it's so eludes us now.

If you choose not to offer financial support, give them both your blessing. They too are walking the path.

Blessing Bill & Kerry, my peace is said.

Adam K.

[Pierrot]

Hi All,

some months ago a friend told me about this forum, I had a look, found all the points of view interesting, then I subscribed, posted a bit, and I like it here. Now I discover some changes are coming next week, I didn't decide yet if I'll stay around or not - and talking about it with my friend it appears I maybe don't understand the situation here, so she suggested I post my point of view here. Here it goes -

First - a forum has it's owners and moderators, and those subscribing and posting are invited here sort of, that makes a community, friends, etc and the owners have the rights and privileges to decide whatever they want about the place. When I'm invited to a party I usually, lol, don't try to move the furniture around or if the owners ask for some pparticipation to cover the costs I don't discuss it. One can come in or leave.

Second - I love internet forums and participate on some of them for about 10 years. Those with free access mainly, because even if the fee is very low, multiply that by 20 or 50 forums.... my budget wouldn't allow that. AN d I don't limit myself to one forum.... otherwise which one to chose? So my choice is to participate to free of charge forums mainly - would I pay to write on a forum I just discovered on the net? not sure - it takes some weeks to get the atmosphere of a place, find how many people there are one can share with. Then decide - so I wonder when the Project Avalon will become a paying forum if that will not cut out some new arrivals and thus lose potential?

I have seen that happen on some sites - some regular posters go away, the level drops down, and the site becomes a desert. It's not a question that the owners have to offer a free service, no, as I wrote above. In fact just some time ago on another forum the administrator opened up a thread saying she had trouble to finance the forum with personal money, suggesting a monthly fee, she put there a paypal button, and in about a month there was more than a 1000$ raised by a community 1/10th as big as the Project Avalon one. So the question might be about "how to get the money?" rather than find a solution that might be a problem.

Further considerations - I confess I didn't have yet the time to read about Project Camelot... :sad: I'm familiar with some data for years, and am interested in, but too busy to study it now. And reading the threads here I understand or misunderstand that the Project Avalon Forums should finance that activity (?) - which sounds a bit weird to me and looks like a mis-managed marketing attempt, I might be wrong but that's how it looks from the outside.

Normally every section of an organisation should finance itself. Or exchange one with the other that brings the money in. If project Camelot has books or DVDs or t-shirts, those should bring in enough money to finance further projects, further interviews, travels, books. I understand the wish to let that work free so it's widely knowns, though. But maybe the "how" again is mis-managed?

Internet marketing is a very interesting tool. A lot to learn there - for instance I know one guy in "relationship" business, who sells his DVDs, CDs. His products are widely known, in his area, he has a terrific mailing list that grew above 1.000.000 subscribers. He sends regularly summaries of what's in the DVDs, courses etc, carefully written so the data are widely available, but leaves enough mystery (yeah, it's a marketing glue, lol) so people buy more and ask for more. And the forums pertaining to the subject are free of charge.

The communication lines of the community are free and for free. And that makes the subject grow and become widely known.

Well - that's just some thoughts, maybe useless maybe not. I feel the freedom to communicate should be protected. And on the other hand guys who do the work, like the owners of this site, should earn plenty of money too. I don't think otherwise - I'm a management consultant too ;-)

And to put it really simple - from my maybe uninformed as yet point of view it looks like this: let's say there is a car company that produces the best and environment friendly cars. It wants its products widely known and used. It organises also free seminars and parties where customers and potential customers meet and exchange points of view (some of which even to build better cars). They all have a great time. And now the company decides to charge the parties and seminars to finance the costs of the whole production of all cars... well, probably I got something wrong ;-)

But then I only write because I feel it's a pity when I hear people (want to) leave such a great place of communication like this.

Friendly
Pierrot

[MaskMarvl]

I think yo should apologize for this one my friend. I personnaly relied a whole lot on my family for the last year and half and that's not because I wanted or planed to. I had health problems. Thank God for that wonderful family of mine. I'm usualy a hard working man (I'm mangement) but as i said, the last 18 months have been really hard on me.

I do not know the situation of everyone here and it's none of my bussiness. But I'm sure you would find other people with stories like mine.

My comment was not directed to people with health problems, little children, mentally retarded, people with Down Syndrome or any of the like.

I'm sorry if you felt the "shoe fit you" specifically. :rolleyes:

[letitshine]

conscious media network has loads of ads but i still go there often for there great info. What is stopping everyone from creating a truth based forum, and waiting for it to get popular and making $ off it.The people created a good community here( bill and kerry didnt do much to build the vast group of people that make pa what it is) So you dont believe in charging for the info on pc, but charging for a forum is better? This website has pretty much been the same (except for the forum) since its creation. The rest of us have to find ways to create resources's . But kerry and bill get to profit off of truth networking. On the promise of making pa "better". Havnt seen anything new from them in a long while. a 15 min phone interview with st clair and a reach of an interview with deagle( not saying much new). And saying well its only a 1$ , well the governmente says the same with taxes, dollars add up and someone gets more of a free ride, I will read still and not share cuz i will be restricted from doing so, not cuz a 1$ is to much, make the site what you say it will be and then maybe people will make more donations, why does pc have to be there career that they must fund, its obviously not a full time thing since we get on an average of one new peice of material a month, I used to check pc everyday , stopped and havnt missed any info cuz there has been nothing of any relevance. I am part of a few forums all of which are free what a forum was intended for, I am a bill harris student and do believe in demanding value, but you have to give back value, what are bill and kerry giving now, not in the past now, The ground crew is making this forum what it is, just run adds then how you guys make your $ or how much is your business, charging for other sections or services is one thing , running a forum program, by moderaters who are doing it out of the good of there heart, and charging for it after it gets popular enough sounds like a scam to me, not what i heard pa was for in the beggining

[Donald]

Donald, that is great and you got several laughs out of me.

It seems you're the only one who thought that was funny. That's not a good sign when people can't laugh anymore. That's sad. :(

Maybe it's getting too serious around here.
_____________________________
Life is beautiful. It's better than tv sometimes.

[Donald]

My comment was not directed to people with health problems, little children, mentally retarded, people with Down Syndrome or any of the like.

I'm sorry if you felt the "shoe fit you" specifically. :rolleyes:

Thank you for the explanation :)

[Myplanet2]

Thanks for writing Pierrot.

The actual situation becomes somewhat obscured by people posting the contents of their speculations and misunderstandings, which grows from there.

for someone to read posts about this, it's not easy to get an accurate picture of the situation.

As I understand it, the situation goes like this:

Bill and Kerry found they had a common purpose and interest in discovering the truth in the area covered by Camalot, and to create a safe space for whistleblowers to come forward with what they know about it. And to make that information freely available to all people.

They both had or came into a bit of money, and used that to finance the project.

Fast forward to now.

they have both used up all of their personal money, and the project has come as far as it has. which is much farther than things were before Bill and Kerry started their project.

Their interviews with St Clair, Green, and Wilcock benefited Camelot, and St Clair, Green and Wilcock, as well as the rest of us who were able to follow along through their generosity.

As Bill and Kerry saw correspondence from more and more people displaying interest and support for their efforts, they decided to do the Avalon forum as a meeting/networking place for Ground crew as described in George Greens Channeled books.

Obviously, it took off harder than anyone expected it would. It's very popular.

But it was always the intention for it to be subscription based. It said so from day one. Right up front. The reason was for funding of the ongoing work. It was never for marketing considerations, as there has never been anything to sell.

There might be now, but the Camelot data has always been free, and will remain so, as per Bill and Kerry's statements.

Interviewing whistleblowers and truth tellers, is their job. It's just never paid them, aside from any generously given donations.

Now it's simply time to start paying them for their work, as otherwise, the work can't go on.

I personally think subscription is the way to go, for many reasons.

If I was them, I'd not like to have to depend on whether any felt like paying me something this month so I can pay my rent, or stock my refridgerator. Subscriptions will be predictable. Donations are not. What if your employer, or clients got to pay you "at their discretion"? How would that make you feel?

Me too.

There is going to be a great deal of added value to being a member here. It's never just been a place where people can go to yak. You can do that anywhere.

This place has always been purposefully created as a meeting/networking place for ground crew. Many hundreds who never understood that, or simply didn't care, have turned the forum into a majorly "off topic" forum. Much is on topic, but much is off topic.

Subscription will have the added bonus of weeding out lots of those who just insist on selfishly going on about anything they want to go on about, instead of making any effort to deal with the subject matters of Ground Crew.

This is all obviously my opinions based on my observations and discussions. But I believe this to give some context to some of what can be read in all these posts and threads about how people think Avalon can better serve THEM.

I think it's an honour to be able to be in service to Avalon, and be a part of it's service to Mankind.

[franciejones]

MyPlanet2---well said, well put and much needed. Thank you for taking that time and effort.

[MaskMarvl]

If I was them, I'd not like to have to depend on whether any felt like paying me something this month so I can pay my rent, or stock my refridgerator. Subscriptions will be predictable. Donations are not. What if your employer, or clients got to pay you "at their discretion"? How would that make you feel?

Well... for starters "we" (the members of the Avalon Forum), are NOT their employers so I don't think that's a good example.

If they implemented a Donation scheme, and the "proceeds" vary, then they would just adjust their schedules and travel "when the money permits".

This has nothing to do with paying their rent bill or re-stocking their refrigerators... :fisch:

[franciejones]

MaskMarvl...you misunderstood...please re-read. If still unclear, I would strongly suggest reading all of the information on Project Camelot and the "youngest threads" here from Bill and Kerry. MyPlanet2 has the right gist of it.

[motov]

I propose PC be kept entirely separate form PA forum.
If you need money for your interviews/traveling and such then state that on PC.
If people don't give money for PC Interviews etc. support...then it shall stop.
Don’t make PA pay for PC’s lack of income.

This forum should remain, in my personal opinion, free and open to all.

wise words amp... i think that those words is the bottom line....:thumb_yello:

[Myplanet2]

Well... for starters "we" (the members of the Avalon Forum), are NOT their employers so I don't think that's a good example.

If they implemented a Donation scheme, and the "proceeds" vary, then they would just adjust their schedules and travel "when the money permits".

This has nothing to do with paying their rent bill or re-stocking their refrigerators... :fisch:

Well, since it's in their court of Camelot, they get to call the game. They've left lots of ways to play open, but the bottom line is, they have to have the money to continue their work. And they deserve to have it be securely so.

If one important interview is missed because of no travel funds, then that's too high a price to pay, so that the "service to self" majority can continue consuming on somebody elses nickel.

those who can't afford it are one thing. Those who object on conscientious or philosophical grounds, that's another. But those who just want to behave like squirrels, grabbing anything that interests them that comes within reach, is too much.

They can get back on the horse, or donkey they rode in on, to keep the metaphor going.:tongue2:

[slywinkl]

Thanks for writing Pierrot.

The actual situation becomes somewhat obscured by people posting the contents of their speculations and misunderstandings, which grows from there.

for someone to read posts about this, it's not easy to get an accurate picture of the situation.

As I understand it, the situation goes like this:

Bill and Kerry found they had a common purpose and interest in discovering the truth in the area covered by Camalot, and to create a safe space for whistleblowers to come forward with what they know about it. And to make that information freely available to all people.

They both had or came into a bit of money, and used that to finance the project.

Fast forward to now.

they have both used up all of their personal money, and the project has come as far as it has. which is much farther than things were before Bill and Kerry started their project.

Their interviews with St Clair, Green, and Wilcock benefited Camelot, and St Clair, Green and Wilcock, as well as the rest of us who were able to follow along through their generosity.

As Bill and Kerry saw correspondence from more and more people displaying interest and support for their efforts, they decided to do the Avalon forum as a meeting/networking place for Ground crew as described in George Greens Channeled books.

Obviously, it took off harder than anyone expected it would. It's very popular.

But it was always the intention for it to be subscription based. It said so from day one. Right up front. The reason was for funding of the ongoing work. It was never for marketing considerations, as there has never been anything to sell.

There might be now, but the Camelot data has always been free, and will remain so, as per Bill and Kerry's statements.

Interviewing whistleblowers and truth tellers, is their job. It's just never paid them, aside from any generously given donations.

Now it's simply time to start paying them for their work, as otherwise, the work can't go on.

I personally think subscription is the way to go, for many reasons.

If I was them, I'd not like to have to depend on whether any felt like paying me something this month so I can pay my rent, or stock my refridgerator. Subscriptions will be predictable. Donations are not. What if your employer, or clients got to pay you "at their discretion"? How would that make you feel?

Me too.

There is going to be a great deal of added value to being a member here. It's never just been a place where people can go to yak. You can do that anywhere.

This place has always been purposefully created as a meeting/networking place for ground crew. Many hundreds who never understood that, or simply didn't care, have turned the forum into a majorly "off topic" forum. Much is on topic, but much is off topic.

Subscription will have the added bonus of weeding out lots of those who just insist on selfishly going on about anything they want to go on about, instead of making any effort to deal with the subject matters of Ground Crew.

This is all obviously my opinions based on my observations and discussions. But I believe this to give some context to some of what can be read in all these posts and threads about how people think Avalon can better serve THEM.

I think it's an honour to be able to be in service to Avalon, and be a part of it's service to Mankind.


am i relly reading this right? this is still divide and conquer, you are talkin o weeding out the ground crew? i was under the belif we all was equall? so ur better than the rest and so is bill and kerry couse they stand forth in their own way?

off topic? who are anyone to say whats off topic for the ground crew?(yes i say tis often)

as i haf said before, we haf to pay to talk? so by that logic we gotta pay to go to work? since we tend to talk to other ppl when we work..

[Pierrot]

Thank you for your answers, Myplanet2, that give info regarding the developpement of the Projects, and the overall intention. Which is good ;-)


(snip)

I personally think subscription is the way to go, for many reasons.

If I was them, I'd not like to have to depend on whether any felt like paying me something this month so I can pay my rent, or stock my refridgerator. Subscriptions will be predictable. Donations are not. What if your employer, or clients got to pay you "at their discretion"? How would that make you feel?

Me too.

I might be not the best person to ask this question to. Being self-employed I always depend upon how good my products are, be it in music, real estate or personal consulting. It's up to me to get myself more known and perfect my skills so public and customers "feel like paying me". It's actually my "thermometer" of how good at what I'm doing I am. Sometimes that induces stress, sometimes it's abundance - but I wouldn't change that basic operation (nor would I advocate you should do as I do, lol)

So I go by subscription AND/OR donations, whichever shoe fits, so long as it doesn't exclude potential customers. (I don't worry about the "bad guys", sooner or later those leave on their own)

There is going to be a great deal of added value to being a member here. It's never just been a place where people can go to yak. You can do that anywhere.

This place has always been purposefully created as a meeting/networking place for ground crew. Many hundreds who never understood that, or simply didn't care, have turned the forum into a majorly "off topic" forum. Much is on topic, but much is off topic.

Well... it's difficult or sometimes nearly impossible to keep a forum on one topic anyway. The important thing is the overall intention of a group isn't swamped in endless digressions.

Anyway - thanks for the clarifications answering my questions and putting the projects in perspective.

Pierrot

[Myplanet2]

am i relly reading this right? this is still divide and conquer, you are talkin o weeding out the ground crew? i was under the belif we all was equall? so ur better than the rest and so is bill and kerry couse they stand forth in their own way?

off topic? who are anyone to say whats off topic for the ground crew?(yes i say tis often)

as i haf said before, we haf to pay to talk? so by that logic we gotta pay to go to work? since we tend to talk to other ppl when we work..

What do you think Ground Crew is?

There is no intention to weed out ground crew. But I personally feel we can do without, and thrive in the absence of whiney babies, who've never conceived of doing anything for anyone else, who think everything should be free to them, even if it costs someone else.

The old paradigm is dying. I'm all for giving it a burial now and getting on with the work of creating our new paradigm. Read the books. They're FREE.

[Myplanet2]

Thank you for your answers, Myplanet2, that give info regarding the developpement of the Projects, and the overall intention. Which is good ;-)



I might be not the best person to ask this question to. Being self-employed I always depend upon how good my products are, be it in music, real estate or personal consulting. It's up to me to get myself more known and perfect my skills so public and customers "feel like paying me". It's actually my "thermometer" of how good at what I'm doing I am. Sometimes that induces stress, sometimes it's abundance - but I wouldn't change that basic operation (nor would I advocate you should do as I do, lol)

So I go by subscription AND/OR donations, whichever shoe fits, so long as it doesn't exclude potential customers. (I don't worry about the "bad guys", sooner or later those leave on their own)



Well... it's difficult or sometimes nearly impossible to keep a forum on one topic anyway. The important thing is the overall intention of a group isn't swamped in endless digressions.

Anyway - thanks for the clarifications answering my questions and putting the projects in perspective.

Pierrot

Welcome, Pierrot.

Much affinity for civility.

One point. There is no product here for sale. the real product always was and will remain free. this exercise is to provide support in those efforts. Donation has been open for years. It's obviously not been enough to keep the project going. And I personally don't want to see a situation like in public television in north america were every so often, your enjoyment is intentionally interrupted so they can annoy you into supporting them.

If this is to be their livelihood, what happens in 3 months, or 6, when the funds run out again, and it's time to hit up the membership. then you get the "but I already paid...can't somebody else this time?"

Either way, I'm sure this will work out fine. When people see the extra added value of a ground crew nature, they will feel very "in-exchange". so to speak :wink2:

[slywinkl]

ok, ground crew is uss, its one and all, its not one single HU-Man that aint the ground crew, just becouse of the simple reson IF something triggers this planet. like goverment, elites, planet x, meteorites, and alien income, then we ALL are inn the gameplay, not just you that are supposedly "above" uss in the chain, that is how u are speaking now, all those who spark an conversation in the forums sparks someone else, if its childish, then someone will anwser that it is childis, and some other will say its a beutiful thought, and mby even someone goes and research whats said, and wups its usefull information for all.

you sais
"But I personally feel we can do without, and thrive in the absence of whiney babies, who've never conceived of doing anything for anyone else, who think everything should be free to them, even if it costs someone else."

that is a sentence one step from wanting to be a dictator, and take away ppl's freedom and free word. u want to shut them upp so your bvelif system comes into play

so your buring the old world u say, or "paradigm" so that meens ur thinkin yourself higher than others that dont know of this, or belive what u belive. hmm sounds more like goverment thinking joined with religion to me. but hey what do i kno, i am under u in the "food chain" soo i should shut upp, huh?

[RubyTuesday]

What do you think Ground Crew is?

There is no intention to weed out ground crew. But I personally feel we can do without, and thrive in the absence of whiney babies, who've never conceived of doing anything for anyone else, who think everything should be free to them, even if it costs someone else.

The old paradigm is dying. I'm all for giving it a burial now and getting on with the work of creating our new paradigm. Read the books. They're FREE.


You're going to lose a lot more than whiney babies- especially if that's how you stereotype people who are having a moral issue with what is happening here.

What I'm seeing is a reinforcement of the old paradigm, not a new one, and I'm quite sad about it.

[Jenny]

Hi Ruby,

even in the new paradigm you will have to eat and have shelter.

I do.

And so do Kerry and Bill.
:original:

[Myplanet2]

ok, ground crew is uss, its one and all, its not one single HU-Man that aint the ground crew, just becouse of the simple reson IF something triggers this planet. like goverment, elites, planet x, meteorites, and alien income, then we ALL are inn the gameplay, not just you that are supposedly "above" uss in the chain, that is how u are speaking now, all those who spark an conversation in the forums sparks someone else, if its childish, then someone will anwser that it is childis, and some other will say its a beutiful thought, and mby even someone goes and research whats said, and wups its usefull information for all.

you sais
"But I personally feel we can do without, and thrive in the absence of whiney babies, who've never conceived of doing anything for anyone else, who think everything should be free to them, even if it costs someone else."

that is a sentence one step from wanting to be a dictator, and take away ppl's freedom and free word. u want to shut them upp so your bvelif system comes into play

so your buring the old world u say, or "paradigm" so that meens ur thinkin yourself higher than others that dont know of this, or belive what u belive. hmm sounds more like goverment thinking joined with religion to me. but hey what do i kno, i am under u in the "food chain" soo i should shut upp, huh?

Ground crew is working in advance of anything that might be coming our way. Not waiting to be in the same boat as everyone else.

There has to be someone there, ready with the solutions, prepared for the eventualities that may come up.

That's what the ground crew is. That's who this place is in support of. IMO.

Nobody's pretending to be any better than anyone else. Nobody is any better than anyone else. It would just be nice to get on with the work at hand without all the distractions.

It seems likely that much infrastructure we now depend on may be going away. If that happens, there will need to be people who are prepared.

[slywinkl]

Ground crew is working in advance of anything that might be coming our way. Not waiting to be in the same boat as everyone else.

There has to be someone there, ready with the solutions, prepared for the eventualities that may come up.

That's what the ground crew is. That's who this place is in support of. IMO.

Nobody's pretending to be any better than anyone else. Nobody is any better than anyone else. It would just be nice to get on with the work at hand without all the distractions.

It seems likely that much infrastructure we now depend on may be going away. If that happens, there will need to be people who are prepared.

what are you saying? so a unknowing farmer that is left after, uhhm lets say a meteorite, hes not in the ground crew becouse he is unknowable of WHY it happened, and might come after? hes now in the ground crew? what? he can give uss food, and learn uss to farm and support our lives! even if he is simple minded hes in the ground crew, wether u like it or not

[slywinkl]

hehe pressed to soon, hes in the ground crew becouse he is alreddy prepared.

[Myplanet2]

You're going to lose a lot more than whiney babies- especially if that's how you stereotype people who are having a moral issue with what is happening here.

What I'm seeing is a reinforcement of the old paradigm, not a new one, and I'm quite sad about it.

Some will leave. I've explained a few times elsewhere that, for me, this is not about those who can't pay, or have a moral issue. It's about those who insist they should get a free ride, because they think so, and shouldn't have to contribute regardless of consumption.

Time is short, and those who don't want to help, should at least not stand in the way of those who are trying to.

[RubyTuesday]

Hi Ruby,

even in the new paradigm you will have to eat and have shelter.

I do.

And so do Kerry and Bill.
:original:


Of course. I also assume it won't be based on fiat dollars and that there will be a sense of community where people contribute what they do best- cooperation of give and take and trust that each person will contribute what he/she can. That's why I suggested a donation system, repeatedly. I've yet to see a sound reason that isn't being tried first other than "there's a paypal button" but I'm not donating anything until decisions have been made and I know my money isn't going to shut people out. The way we exchange money has our energy attached.

That's more in line with a new paradigm, not forcing people people to pay to share information that would benefit others. And food and shelter isn't that expensive unless you plan on living at a high price exclusive ark or something- which I don't begrudge but when you're going to throw out the food/shelter reason then the ark should be brought up.

[Myplanet2]

what are you saying? so a unknowing farmer that is left after, uhhm lets say a meteorite, hes not in the ground crew becouse he is unknowable of WHY it happened, and might come after? hes now in the ground crew? what? he can give uss food, and learn uss to farm and support our lives! even if he is simple minded hes in the ground crew, wether u like it or not

The farmer may or may not be. depends on his intention. Ground Crew is defined in George Greens Books. Have you read them?

[slywinkl]

lol. a free ride? its the ground crew givin you all the info to support this site.

i suggest u think aboot that for a sec, becouse i haf, and i think i am blessed to haf the privilage to read what others think, in my mind, its we who should pay each individual becouse they provide the info, they provide the numbers that enter this page, they provide the time and effort so you can sitt there and judge them...

[slywinkl]

exuse me, are you arguing to say that not all are inn the ground crew? child as old ones, smart and not so smart, u want to divide them couse u think u dont need them? or aint of their kin?

no i havent red that book, i know the meaning put here, and what was original idea here, it was for so all could come toghether and get anwsers, not be afraid anymore, support EVERYONE. not divide em more, and copying the rules of the elites and goverment

[Jenny]

Hi Ruby,

Maybe you want to read up again on how all info will stay available for all on the forum.
Info is free and will be free in the future.
Bill and Kerry are passionate about all the info to be free...no charge.
I was mordicus against subscription until I heard all the details. and then I surrendered without hesitation.
It is about shelter and food and doing the work they have been doing so courageously.
I want to support that and help them.


As for Bill and The Ark in Australia....grinn...at this time it is a dream he voiced...a dream he wants to pursue. I wish him all the best in attaining that dream and make it come true.:thumb_yello:

I have different dreams and I can't afford them either......:wink2:

[RubyTuesday]

I want to help and support that, too but not at the expense of losing information. I've read up on all the information, repeatedly. I do not make my statements without researching first and- if you've read my previous posts- you'd know why I feel this way and wouldn't assume I haven't read up.

There are many lurkers here and read only is fine for them. But even lurkers have insight to share at times and they step out and do so when they are "called" to. Will they pay to do that or just take their insight elsewhere or keep it to themselves? It's what we will lose that's the problem. And we won't even know it.

My only point about the ark is it costs several hundred thousand to join. So saying they need to pay for food and shelter- it isn't like we're talking about regular rent and groceries here. Good for them but it isn't fair to throw that out as a reason for a paid subscription, especially when many are struggling to pay a regular mortgage/rent. It's kind of "in your face" really. Sort of like tax money going to bailout out banks who use the money for luxury retreats.

Again, why not a donation system? And have my previous posts been read at all? And how is doing the same thing "a new paradigm"? What's so new about forcing people to pay to play?

:wub2: to you all. I have no ill will, just questions and concerns. I'm okay with what you guys decide because it's your forum, your path. I hope it works out for you, I really do, but I think membership will decline and the variety of insights we see now will vanish as people become lurkers.

[Myplanet2]

exuse me, are you arguing to say that not all are inn the ground crew? child as old ones, smart and not so smart, u want to divide them couse u think u dont need them? or aint of their kin?

no i havent red that book, i know the meaning put here, and what was original idea here, it was for so all could come toghether and get anwsers, not be afraid anymore, support EVERYONE. not divide em more, and copying the rules of the elites and goverment

Then we're simply talking about different things. I'm talking specifically about Ground Crew as described in George Greens books, and which is the definition in mind in the creation of this site.

Not just "people on the ground". Lol.

[Flying Pyramid]

The mods and admins here are blind or they choose to stay silent.
I posted twice now and everybody just passed them by and kept posting the same thing.
All you keep saying is "the content will be free" "you can still read the info".
How can i come here and post new info, valuable info?
How is anyone with anything relevent to say supposed to come here and post? YOU ARE CHARGING TO SPEAD KNOWLEDGE.
Knowledge is power. YOU are charging to have power.
This place is now the JASON Scholors & The tri-lateral Commision.

1.) Yes i personally believe in Bill & Kerry's mission.
Yes i believe they have started the foundation of something good and pure.

2.) Yes, i believe they need more money or help to keep this going.

3.) NO, i dont not agree that making a forum a subscription is the way to make money.

Trust me, i ran REVforums for 6 years and i know what i'm talking about.
Project Camelot & Project Avalon are new and very, very, controversial.
Do you really think that "others" are not watching, posting, directing?
This is a test. Why doesn't anyone see that?
If you decide to do something for the betterment of mankind the evil entities wile try to devour you by turning what you built into thier tool.
Let me be very very blunt:

Bill, Kerry, If you decide that this is the only way to make the money you need without looking at other ventures, you will fail.
You must understand how humans work.
It's the message that counts, thats what really matters.
What message are you sending to the powers that be if you use their system to get your "positive" message across.
You are the navigators of this ship. You control where the destination is.
But there are huge waves and attacking ships trying to vere you of course so those that follow will lose their way and once again be lost.

I can not say it any other way, please look inside and you will know what i say is true. Do not feed the hate.
I proposed to move to your town, get a $400-$500 dollor an hour job, still take on CGI jobs which pay $1000's for each job, and hand it all over to you to fund your venture so you did not have to start charging for ANYTHING! The dvd's , t-shirts and others are also fantastic ideas that will make way more money than 10,000 subscriptions.
And it sends a message that we dont need the "system" to create a new world. We dont need their "system" to live happy or healthy.

I love you both, but if this is your only avenue to take, if you refuse to accept any other means of support then it is clear that the "intent" or your venture lies elsewhere and not with the people. And if this is true then Avalon has fallen And they win!

Pease, Love & Light

[Myplanet2]

I want to help and support that, too but not at the expense of losing information. I've read up on all the information, repeatedly. I do not make my statements without researching first and- if you've read my previous posts- you'd know why I feel this way and wouldn't assume I haven't read up.

There are many lurkers here and read only is fine for them. But even lurkers have insight to share at times and they step out and do so when they are "called" to. Will they pay to do that or just take their insight elsewhere or keep it to themselves? It's what we will lose that's the problem. And we won't even know it.

My only point about the ark is it costs several hundred thousand to join. So saying they need to pay for food and shelter- it isn't like we're talking about regular rent and groceries here. Good for them but it isn't fair to throw that out as a reason for a paid subscription, especially when many are struggling to pay a regular mortgage/rent. It's kind of "in your face" really. Sort of like tax money going to bailout out banks who use the money for luxury retreats.

Again, why not a donation system? And have my previous posts been read at all? And how is doing the same thing "a new paradigm"? What's so new about forcing people to pay to play?

:wub2: to you all. I have no ill will, just questions and concerns. I'm okay with what you guys decide because it's your forum, your path. I hope it works out for you, I really do, but I think membership will decline and the variety of insights we see now will vanish as people become lurkers.

It's not my place to go into it, Ruby, but it is about food and shelter at this point. I believe that to be true. Solid provision needs to be put in place if it's to continue.

[slywinkl]

Then we're simply talking about different things. I'm talking specifically about Ground Crew as described in George Greens books, and which is the definition in mind in the creation of this site.

Not just "people on the ground". Lol.

then why are you here? why are you imposing that belif system here? when its mostly written here that the ground crew is all.

its not diveded, its not looking down on ANYONE, its not casting anyone out of the flock.

it is all are equall, we are here as the ground crew to give and get INFORMATION (do i haf to spell it?)

we are here to help, and give anwsers, and as many say here, its so that all can have the chance to speak upp, many here just surf and look and read and not catching everything here, but something resonates with someone, so they search upp info of the subject, be it books, be it youtube vids, or interviews, or announsments u dont get from the mainstream.

or its like giving tips to survive in the nature, as for me i rang my farmer friends to get little more detailed info how to survive in the forest. since i didnt remmember all i learned from growing upp in the woods, and i count those persons i rang as fully fledged ground crew members

[Baggywrinkle]

How is anyone with anything relevent to say supposed to come here and post?

We are brainstorming that right now. The idea is a maildrop like you might
have in your front door where information could be deposited. Rather like
comments in a blog. It would, however, be heavily moderated and would be discarded if it did not add value to the information at hand.

Or you could go to Alpha Rubicon, or Another Voice of Warning, where the restrictions are even more strenuous. At Alpha it is publish or perish. They do not tolerate rubbish and require one quality original article monthly or you are out. AVOW has over 1900 active members btw. Must be something good going on in there, but you will never know cause you can't read it unless you JOIN UP

[slywinkl]

I don't understand when you say free ride Myplanet2? Help me here!!! The people contributing in these forums are not getting anything out of this! They are charging money for other people's research and work. If they want to be fair then every dollar that is given to this forum let them split it up with those here that are drawing the crowds so they can benefit from this as well. I am not talking about those that draw crowds through fear either.

Peace Brian

exactly, all are opening upp someones mind at some time, and its from everyone. its so true, we should then pay all who writes here, and puts in time and effort to get info and pictures to post here to wake ppl upp :)

[norman]

I'm convinced there is no cerebral truth that's going to resolve this. None of us are right. For 2 days I've had this issue burning me up. I so much want an outcome to this that exceeds all our expectations.

The axe is going to fall soon and a decision be ruled. I have many times been blown around by different arguments on this thread and believed I was watching a war break out. Actually, it's mostly aliveness and passion that's broken out here and it's wonderful. People are starting to put themselves on the line in front of each other.

It's an exchange of energies and an intimacy amongst a people who are on the whole, by reason of simply being here at this time gathered around Bill and Kerry's creation, are ready to reach for another level of intimacy. A 'no hiding places' common intimacy. It's what aliveness is.

My sadness is in predicting that when that axe has fallen, when the immediate solution has been ruled, we will all go back to a cerebral sleep only vaguely aware and trying to intelligently guess 'truths' again.

Yesterday I tried really hard to put myself in Bill's position and to see all this from his perspective. The conclusion I came to was that he in particular, but it possibly includes Kerry also, intended to have a fairly cosy little ground crew forum. Nothing wrong with that. As I see it, they don't want another ATS. Massive traffic and advertising is not what they feel they created this for. If I'm correct about that, I agree.

If you read all Bill's posts it's very clear that he is a 'genuine' guy with a quiet controlled manner. He's spent most of his money on this. He's not a bread head. Zorgon cracked his 'cool' precisely because of that.

I admire Bill's personal sojourn. I'm even willing to do what I can to care for him. My problem with that is that I don't share his apparent instincts about a couple of his closest Camelot friends or guides. Not wanting to alienate myself, I've never been able to just 'spit it out'. Many people here have said things that have echoed my feelings in this regard but have been banned or have become otherwise disinterested in contributing to the heart of this group or ground crew or whatever you want to call it.

This current issue that is sparking people up from all directions is telling us the way to go. It's screaming obvious. I'd love to be wrong about this, but I don't think Ryan, Cassidy, StClair or Wilcock or even all of them together could handle the size and acceleration of this huge thing that it is, without first cooling it off again. I know I couldn't and I am one who would very much like to keep it going as it is going.

I say drop the axe and go ahead and do it. Bring Avalon down to size. Get comfortable with it but don't forget what began to happen here and try to return to it. Even if the worst happens and it becomes a cult-like beast, disappearing up it's own time line, it will at least have been a precious lighthouse that kept a lot of people away from the rocks beneath it.


My 2 cents worth. :soccer_h4h:

[RubyTuesday]

or its like giving tips to survive in the nature, as for me i rang my farmer friends to get little more detailed info how to survive in the forest. since i didnt remmember all i learned from growing upp in the woods, and i count those persons i rang as fully fledged ground crew members

You'll still be able to read all you want, but if that farmer gave you some awesome tips on surviving in a forest you'd be paying to share that with the people here. That's my issue. Would you pay to do that or post elsewhere or keep it yourself? That's why the force to pay to post makes so little sense to me. You pay to post and all posts are property of Project Avalon...

This is just not settling well with me at all and I still haven't seen a good reason other avenues aren't being tried first, especially given the divisiveness of this issue. This is not new paradigm, at all. :zip:

[Myplanet2]

I have read some of George Green's books but that don't mean I accept the information in them. Everything which we seek can be found within us gave to us freely by our Mother. The word "Groundcrew" has been given a certain talisman energy given to it at this forum. What comes to mind when someone says Groundcrew to everyone here? What are they really trying to say with calling everyone groundcrew? I am a member of Earth by means of incarnating in a body provided by her. I will do her service now in anything she ask. Groundcrew!! Goodness!! I came to these forums reading and seeking information that its members have freely gave. Wow what special people came here and exchanged ideas and shared themselves with us in ways we never knew existed. It is sad the decision they have made will provoke these people to leave.

I don't understand when you say free ride Myplanet2? Help me here!!! The people contributing in these forums are not getting anything out of this! They are charging money for other people's research and work. If they want to be fair then every dollar that is given to this forum let them split it up with those here that are drawing the crowds so they can benefit from this as well. I am not talking about those that draw crowds through fear either.

Peace Brian

Nobody is planning on charging for anybody elses work. The idea is to pay a monthly or annual subscription fee to participate here. Not for information. The information is and stays free. anyone can come anytime, and read everything on the open forum. Rather it is for the expressed purpose of supporting Bill and Kerry in their work. That's all. If they are not supported in their work now, the work can't go on.

the place was created in support of Bill and Kerry's work, and as a place where Ground Crew can find others of like mind who want to share information and to create networks and form communities.

I might add. Bill and Kerry have both said this is the last thing they want to do. There just is no choice. If you want to stop subscription, make it unnecessary. Right now it is vitally necessary.

[Avid]

Can't afford a subscription as on a tiny pension (early retired), haven't read all the thread, but the title suffices. I'll be very sad not to be able to take part any more.:tears::tears::tears:

[Flying Pyramid]

We are brainstorming that right now. The idea is a maildrop like you might
have in your front door where information could be deposited. Rather like
comments in a blog. It would, however, be heavily moderated and would be discarded if it did not add value to the information at hand.

Or you could go to Alpha Rubicon, or Another Voice of Warning, where the restrictions are even more strenuous. At Alpha it is publish or perish. They do not tolerate rubbish and require one quality original article monthly or you are out.


Baggtwrinkle reread what i posted and then read what you just posted and if you can not see the heavy programming then my friend you too are lost.
I love you and i do not blame you, i just wish i new the right words to come across with what i'm trying to say.

So i post free dc energy and it is decided that it's not relevent so it's discarded and the world never sees it because the people who will listen and can do something about it are HERE. If you help Avalon fall then you too will share that burdon apon your soul.

Wake up dude.

Peace, Love & Light

[Baggywrinkle]

Can't afford a subscription as on a tiny pension (early retired), haven't read all the thread, but the title suffices. I'll be very sad not to be able to take part any more.:tears::tears::tears:

Send your name to a mod for inclusion on the gifting list.

[slywinkl]

Nobody is planning on charging for anybody elses work. The idea is to pay a monthly or annual subscription fee to participate here. Not for information. The information is and stays free. anyone can come anytime, and read everything on the open forum. Rather it is for the expressed purpose of supporting Bill and Kerry in their work. That's all. If they are not supported in their work now, the work can't go on.

the place was created in support of Bill and Kerry's work, and as a place where Ground Crew can find others of like mind who want to share information and to create networks and form communities.

its not mainly for bill and kerry this, in muy understanding it was for the ground crew, i thought that was all.

as for the information, how is that gonna appear if like lets say first u loose 30% of the ppl who gets the information now here when they are on a wake upp time in their life and wanna share what they have discovered, but havent got the cash to "open their mouth" ?

[Baggywrinkle]

Baggtwrinkle reread what i posted and then read what you just posted and if you can not see the heavy programming then my friend you too are lost.
I love you and i do not blame you, i just wish i new the right words to come across with what i'm trying to say.

So i post free dc energy and it is decided that it's not relevent so it's discarded and the world never sees it because the people who will listen and can do something about it are HERE. If you help Avalon fall then you too will share that burdon apon your soul.

Wake up dude.

Peace, Love & Light

I'll look for you at otherpower.com Dude. Meanwhile, B&K have interviews that they can't do because they don't have the finances.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

[Reunite]

What do you think Ground Crew is?

There is no intention to weed out ground crew. But I personally feel we can do without, and thrive in the absence of whiney babies, who've never conceived of doing anything for anyone else, who think everything should be free to them, even if it costs someone else.

The old paradigm is dying. I'm all for giving it a burial now and getting on with the work of creating our new paradigm. Read the books. They're FREE.

That is very mature and diplomatic of you to start labelling people whiney babies and telling them to get back on their donkeys who have INTEGRITY and high morals. You have probably persauded another 100 or more people to leave from your statements.

I'm certain you will find the positive path in your life soon. Peace be with you brother

[Myplanet2]

The mods and admins here are blind or they choose to stay silent.
I posted twice now and everybody just passed them by and kept posting the same thing.
All you keep saying is "the content will be free" "you can still read the info".
How can i come here and post new info, valuable info?
How is anyone with anything relevent to say supposed to come here and post? YOU ARE CHARGING TO SPEAD KNOWLEDGE.
Knowledge is power. YOU are charging to have power.
This place is now the JASON Scholors & The tri-lateral Commision.

1.) Yes i personally believe in Bill & Kerry's mission.
Yes i believe they have started the foundation of something good and pure.

2.) Yes, i believe they need more money or help to keep this going.

3.) NO, i dont not agree that making a forum a subscription is the way to make money.

Trust me, i ran REVforums for 6 years and i know what i'm talking about.
Project Camelot & Project Avalon are new and very, very, controversial.
Do you really think that "others" are not watching, posting, directing?
This is a test. Why doesn't anyone see that?
If you decide to do something for the betterment of mankind the evil entities wile try to devour you by turning what you built into thier tool.
Let me be very very blunt:

Bill, Kerry, If you decide that this is the only way to make the money you need without looking at other ventures, you will fail.
You must understand how humans work.
It's the message that counts, thats what really matters.
What message are you sending to the powers that be if you use their system to get your "positive" message across.
You are the navigators of this ship. You control where the destination is.
But there are huge waves and attacking ships trying to vere you of course so those that follow will lose their way and once again be lost.

I can not say it any other way, please look inside and you will know what i say is true. Do not feed the hate.
I proposed to move to your town, get a $400-$500 dollor an hour job, still take on CGI jobs which pay $1000's for each job, and hand it all over to you to fund your venture so you did not have to start charging for ANYTHING! The dvd's , t-shirts and others are also fantastic ideas that will make way more money than 10,000 subscriptions.
And it sends a message that we dont need the "system" to create a new world. We dont need their "system" to live happy or healthy.

I love you both, but if this is your only avenue to take, if you refuse to accept any other means of support then it is clear that the "intent" or your venture lies elsewhere and not with the people. And if this is true then Avalon has fallen And they win!

Pease, Love & Light

those who believe they have valuable contributions to make, might consider joining the researchers team. They will not be required to pay subscription fees as long as they contribute substantially to the ground crew library data base.

[Baggywrinkle]

those who believe they have valuable contributions to make, might consider joining the researchers team. They will not be required to pay subscription fees as long as they contribute substantially to the ground crew library data base.

along with a movement and strong encouragement to gift two memberships..

[slywinkl]

those who believe they have valuable contributions to make, might consider joining the researchers team. They will not be required to pay subscription fees as long as they contribute substantially to the ground crew library data base.

so what is valuable information then? i know how to survive in the wods with a knife for a extent of time? is that valuable info? i also kno argiculture, is that valuable? i know computers and haf many classess from this and haf been a teatcher of this. i also haf runned a sheep farm since i was little, is this valuable info for the ground crew? or is it info just some gets to decide if is valuable, and is this just abopot spirituallity and aliens, and stuff that most of uss havent experienced

[Myplanet2]

That is very mature and diplomatic of you to start labelling people whiney babies and telling them to get back on their donkeys who have INTEGRITY and high morals. You have probably persauded another 100 or more people to leave from your statements.

I'm certain you will find the positive path in your life soon. Peace be with you brother

I'm sure all the whiney babies will find a nice place for themselves. Oh wait. didn't you already post that link?

[capreycorn]

http://a.bebo.com/app-image/6742930091/5315963826/PROFILE/sbst1w.static.zynga.com/stickerz/bebo/images/4/234/190980.jpg