US military chief makes unannounced visit to Pakistan

[Rocky_Shorz]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

"My understanding is that no foreign troops are allowed to operate inside Pakistan and if any action is taken across the border, then it is for the Isaf and Nato troops to do so.”

In public he has to stand up and say it is wrong, but the non-actions by Pakistan's army is showing what their true stance is... He's no different than the leader of Syria, sitting on a powder keg with only a squirt gun to put out the burning fuses.

The Pakistan army is now coordinating with NATO on attacks inside of Pakistan. Which goes back to exactly what I said (about 10 threads ago, I couldn't even find it.. we don't need new threads for every update to the story... hint hint)

We had Drones flying over 15 villages today inside Pakistan without one shot fired...

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by Rocky_Shorz

In public he has to stand up and say it is wrong, but the non-actions by Pakistan's army is showing what their true stance is... He's no different than the leader of Syria, sitting on a powder keg with only a squirt gun to put out the burning fuses.

The Pakistan army is now coordinating with NATO on attacks inside of Pakistan. Which goes back to exactly what I said (about 10 threads ago, I couldn't even find it.. we don't need new threads for every update to the story... hint hint)

We had Drones flying over 15 villages today inside Pakistan without one shot fired...

Originally Posted by Rocky_Shorz

In public he has to stand up and say it is wrong, but the non-actions by Pakistan's army is showing what their true stance is... He's no different than the leader of Syria, sitting on a powder keg with only a squirt gun to put out the burning fuses.

The Pakistan army is now coordinating with NATO on attacks inside of Pakistan. Which goes back to exactly what I said (about 10 threads ago, I couldn't even find it.. we don't need new threads for every update to the story... hint hint)

We had Drones flying over 15 villages today inside Pakistan without one shot fired...

I acknowledge up front that you may be proven right. However "In public he has to stand up and say it is wrong" only shows what is obvious, that a spokesman is going to speak in a way that obfuscates the truth for the sake of "perception". What is not up for debate is the fact that the last time soldiers crossed the border, they were fired upon. Don't forget the fact that the "apparent" change in attitude came after the Indian air force flew over Kashmir territory. In other words, there is more going on here than meets the eye, and I find it very unlikely that the Pakistani government "loves" NATO, "supports" the U.S.'s war against Al Qaeda/ Taliban, "acquiesces" to foreign troops entering their territory, fundamentally "allies" itself with the Western viewpoint, or "celebrates" the commitment of the U.S. to root out terrorists NO MATTER where they geographically decide to do so.

Comments from ministers and government spokesmen neither prove nor disprove either of our viewpoints, no more than Rice and Cheney's condemnation of Russia's actions in Georgia eliminate the fact that they support the U.S. acting similarly (to put it most mildly) when they see fit.

Again, I fully acknowledge that you may have the better read on this situation. I still maintain that the original U.S. - Pakistani "alliance" was false, or rather, one born of temporary mutual benefit, that was destined to fall apart from its inception. Note - Musharaff is gone - not inconsequential or irrelevant. Note - post Musharaff the Pakistani government has not "played ball" as usual with Musharaff.

In addition, you have to look at the larger pattern very recently developing, unseen heretorforenow, of nations OPENLY siding against the Bush/Cheney/Israel, cabal - e.g. Latin America, South America, Russia, Pakistan - joining in with Iran et alia. China behind the scenes, playing the situation carefully and mostly silently - only threats coming from their alliance w/ Russia vis a vi Iran, via the Shanghai Cooperative, and subtle, but most devastatingly real economic threats via their state newspaper -
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id...onid=351020404, as an example. I see Pakistan's obvious "change" in approach to the Taliban, Al Qaeda, Ahfganistan situation must represent something different than the previous mode of "cooperation".

Please continue to update me with information on this area, and please don't take my responses as a refutation of your ideas. I value your thoughts here,


Z

[Rocky_Shorz]

I do enjoy your inputs, seeing a different point of view brings up new questions that make me look for answers.

Remember the first day when the Pakistan Military leader Stated flat out there is no Al Queda or Terrorist in Pakistan's tribal region as the US Military had drones in the air, bombing and killing their Operations Leader...

Made the Pakistan Military leader look clueless...

Next thing we knew, the head of NATO flew out for the meeting.

Right after that, the government announced that NATO will be pursuing them into the country...

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by Rocky_Shorz

I do enjoy your inputs, seeing a different point of view brings up new questions that make me look for answers.

Remember the first day when the Pakistan Military leader Stated flat out there is no Al Queda or Terrorist in Pakistan's tribal region as the US Military had drones in the air, bombing and killing their Operations Leader...

Made the Pakistan Military leader look clueless...

Next thing we knew, the head of NATO flew out for the meeting.

Right after that, the government announced that NATO will be pursuing them into the country...

True enough, Rocky, and thanks for the compliment, I return it to you. However, that doesn't even touch on the issue of defining the true nature of Al Qaeda, a generally acknowledged "creation" of the CIA in the 80's. I think it is important that we not take the word of the government, specifically the liars (my opinion, and the opinion of many) that constitute the Bush, Cheney cabal, as to the definition of the ENEMY, yet alone the proper course to follow to alleviate the problem they cause, IF that problem exists (according to their definition).

Therefore, if even a miniscule amount of skepticism is applied to our "war on terror", then the "mainstream"/ Bush justification for violating the borders of any nation is in jeopardy, much less the border of a nation that up until very recently we have called "friends", "allies", "compatriots", et cetera. One might ask, "How can this issue of a border dispute with Pakistan EVEN exist?", "Are we not brothers in the fight against the Taliban?", "Do we not oppose an undemocratic Ahfganistan together?", etc... etc...

In other words, once the "Al Qaeda as the ultimate enemy of mankind" or "if the Taliban is not destroyed, freedom will die" arguments fail to hold up, then the excuses for crossing the Pakistan border similarly fail. If that is the case, then the Pakistani cries for "sovereignty of their OWN border" can be seen in a different light than the Mullen/Rice/Bush viewpoint of "Hey, we're just getting the bad guys, like we talked about." I think that neither the Pakistani government, no matter how involved with the West they committed themselves, nor the Pakistani people, will ultimately see things the Bush way.


Let's see where it goes, and keep the info coming

[Rocky_Shorz]

several threats towards Iran has come out in recent weeks from Al Queda...

They are accusing them of being allies of the US against Afghanistan and Iraq...

Kind of a twisted view, but I know you understand the two edged sword mentioned in your last post.

If they directed the same towards the leadership of Pakistan, the whole country would explode into violence.

I did get out of the government from Pakistan what I was hoping to see...

[Zarathustra]

Understood, Rocky, and it goes towards the theory of "the taking of sides" I have outlined in other posts. Let's see what happens.

[Rocky_Shorz]

a little bird laid this before me, all I can do is smile...

Story Link

U.S. military advisors may soon head to Pakistan
The U.S. and Pakistan have cleared remaining obstacles, so the long-delayed team may arrive within weeks, Joint Chiefs Chairman Michael Mullen says.
By Peter Spiegel, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
September 19, 2008
A long-delayed plan to send dozens of U.S. military advisors to Pakistan to train its army in counterinsurgency could begin in a matter of weeks under a new agreement on a training base, according to the top U.S. military officer.

Washington for months has urged the Pakistani military to accept the training team. Pakistan has resisted, asking for additional weaponry and equipment some U.S. officials believe is best suited for its standoff with regional rival India.

Mullen said he believed Pakistani officials were insisting on their right "to defend their country, which I understand, which anybody understands."

He added: "Clearly we have no desire to get into any kind of engagement with the Pakistani military."

[Zarathustra]

US defies Pakistan with new air raid

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...-25837,00.html


Pakistani president tells foreign troops to keep out

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapc...n.sovereignty/

[Rocky_Shorz]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

US defies Pakistan with new air raid

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...-25837,00.html


Pakistani president tells foreign troops to keep out

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapc...n.sovereignty/

Well what do you expect for him to tell Pakistan after he watched a bomb make a crater 30 feet deep in front of a highly guarded hotel...

They can't handle it which is why there is going to be coordination starting, but al queda's enemy is the US, for us to open a base there is going to give them a "target"

What do you think is going to happen the first time al queda makes an attack on the US base?

[Rocky_Shorz]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7651249.stm

The evening attack killed at least 20 people, unnamed Pakistani security sources and the Dawn News television channel said.

It is believed to have targeted a house in the village of Mohammad Khel, 30km west of Miranshah, the region's main town.

'Most were foreigners'

Most of the dead in Mohammad Khel are thought to be foreign militants.

"Our reports suggest that around 20 suspected militants were killed..." an unnamed "senior Pakistani security official" was quoted as saying by AFP news agency.

"Most were foreigners," the official added. Dawn TV reports that 16 of the dead were foreign.

North Waziristan is a stronghold of Islamic militants, including the Taleban and al-Qaeda. ...

However, the agency later quoted a Pakistani military spokesman, Maj-Gen Athar Abbas, as denying there had been any intrusion into Pakistani territory.

Instead, he said, an international operation had been launched against militants on the Afghan side of the border.