Symbolism/Language/Focus

01-20-2009, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 777 The Great Work

It is probably a full moon which means all emotions will be high and propaganda will be soaked into the subconciousness of the masses.

Hi 777 - The moon's not full. It's a waning crescent > new.

2009 Phases of the Moon
Universal Time
NEW MOON .....FIRST QUARTER...... FULL MOON........LAST QUARTER
................... ..JAN. 4 11 56 ...... JAN. 11 3 27 .....JAN. 18 2 46
JAN. 26 7 55....FEB. 2 23 13 ....... FEB. 9 14 49......FEB. 16 21 37
http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/MoonPhase.php

LOVE & DARK NIGHTS (LOTS OF STARS)

777 The Great Work · 01-20-2009, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by no caste

Hi 777 - The moon's not full. It's a waning crescent > new.

2009 Phases of the Moon
Universal Time
NEW MOON .....FIRST QUARTER...... FULL MOON........LAST QUARTER
................... ..JAN. 4 11 56 ...... JAN. 11 3 27 .....JAN. 18 2 46
JAN. 26 7 55....FEB. 2 23 13 ....... FEB. 9 14 49......FEB. 16 21 37
http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/MoonPhase.php

LOVE & DARK NIGHTS (LOTS OF STARS)

I had no idea,i 've just noticed that major decisions and events take place on days of the full and new moon . Thanks No caste, i meant to say new and full.14 on and 14 off

Humble Janitor · 01-20-2009, 04:30 PM

Had a dream recently where the numbers 772 and 13 were prominent.

It was odd and actually 3 dreams in 1.

Dakini · 01-21-2009, 05:58 PM

My sense, and also from my reading and direct experience, is that symbols arise from the Collective. Carl Jung devoted much of professional life to their interpretation, re: Man and His Symbols is good place to start. He advocated that no symbol is connected to a dogmatic interpretation.

Symbols surpass any secular language and are universal - therefor any being from any system or time/place can experience them and get similar meaning. The mystics write greatly on having visions of symbols. I myself have received hundreds over the years - quite profound ones. When the symbol or even ancient word is given in a vision or dream, it can be absolutely transformational - simply ask what it means. Begin there. If you receive an internal answer - wonderful. If not, after a few days, go the internet - you will be blown away by what you can often find.

The psyche gives us symbols via dreams. I had a powerful dream last year ...
I am secretly holding a golden brown elixir called "Rasa." I haven't heard of this word before. Lucidly, I wonder what this is...I am in a group of women that I think I have to give some to...share it with everyone here...but some of the women become mean and petty...I realize I cannot give them the Rasa...it's too precious...I sense they are not worthy yet, besides, I don't really know yet the effects of it...and soon I know that it is me alone who needs to take it. I turn the Rasa over in my hand, it is sticky and looks sweet. I raise it to my lips...and the dream ends.

I do 'my asking,' I believe I understand the power of it, but I want to know more and go to the internet. What I find on Rasa is incredible and very affirming of what I am experiencing at the time. (If anyone has any info on Rasa, I'd love to hear it, btw.) This is just one example of the universal way that Spirit/The Soul Self speaks.

Clients often ask me where they can begin their spiritual journey. I tell them to begin to record dreams in the present tense. Be ready! Once you actively engage the psyche, something very exciting starts. The part of you that has so longed to connect to your conscious self begins to speak - in symbols.

Dakini

Dakini · 01-21-2009, 06:05 PM

Humble Janitor,
One of the interpretations of 13...
From the Major Arcana of the Tarot - 13 is the Death card - a very auspicious one for death of the old and is a herald of of "rebirth, transformation, and even transfiguration. You can choose to shed your past and eliminate your previous existence...you will then be in a position to assume the position of refinement, prepared for the spiritual Sun and celestial waters to nurture you into replete, newborn splendor." Marcia Macino

Jeez, I'm all excited for you...!

772 - what is your date of birth?

Dakini

Dakini · 01-21-2009, 06:18 PM

Czymra,
In response to your second question, "Why use symbols?"

One reason is that because symbols are universal and resonate directly with the Collective and the Soul Self, it is one way to get the message delivered undiluted. It's a communication that transpires.

It's sort of akin to the universal language of medical terminology, which is standardized across all countries and software and hardware programming and protocols and yes, using symbols. Does anyone realize what was accomplished when creating a brand new universal language with computer systems? Awesome. Which is one reason why high level internet insiders are saying that the internet will never go down...they will make sure of it.

Czymra · 01-22-2009, 12:28 AM

Thanks for all your replies first of all. I'm glad to see such interest by itself.
However, I've not yet seen what I was looking for. The revelations about the moon are precious to me, the dream terminology I'm catching on to, but I haven't seen any hard fact.
Okay, maybe there aren't any hard facts on this topic but at least some 'hard argumentation'. I hear it claimed again that symbols are a 'universal language' but if they aren't pure as such how can they be? Aren't there misinterpretations? I could understand if any interpretation is right the the openness of the symbols IS the very facet that lends the visual realm back its self-arrangement.
However, the concept breaks down for me when looking at geometric symbols. I mean, the triangle is so pure, if you leave away all the association, it just is in all it's simplicity and complexity. The same goes for a circle. Is it a ring, a ball, a cylinder, an area, is there depth? It doesn't matter for it's all the same! That doesn't work with a symbolistic approach for 'lightning' though.

EarthBowl · 01-22-2009, 04:55 PM

my intuitive thought only-

We are one. On earth we bought into the illusion of separation.
We may or may not consciously be aware of our collective unconsciousness / genetic mind system - which is only a thin wispy image construct to remind us of our Oneness.

We are creators- it is what we do. Symbols- including all images made by us, are attempts at communication in this collective unconscious or genetic mind system. Symbols -fuzzy images that attempt to trigger a recollection of a truth in the Oneness.
Reminders to remember, that can gather or divide.

I am an artist who uses symbols and words. I feel the power in the symbols but know the real power is the connection established between those who resonate with the focused image- symbol-object. In the same way writers / poets - use symbol language to show you something they see- feel- understand. This condensed focus may open up a similar place in you. So realized consciously or not - that is a connection.
I think connection could be the purpose.

Czymra · 01-22-2009, 08:05 PM

That is how I feel as well but that doesn't account for the consistent use of the pyramid in i.e. Masonic imaging. If I put a pyramid, have no idea what it means, maybe I want it to be a huge three dimensional arrowhead, pointing at something else, does it still have those connotations? Will unknowing people feel that connotation sub-consciously even without ever having learned about the Masonic meaning?
For what you say sounds as if the symbol is merely a channel, a graphical representation of an image, that due to its geometry can be interpreted, which and whatever way the interpretation happens then, is just a question of conditioning of the observer or the context within the piece (if you ignore the conscious mind at least).

EarthBowl · 01-22-2009, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Czymra

... is just a question of conditioning of the observer or the context within the piece (if you ignore the conscious mind at least).

Maybe- the symbol is the same but people have laid 'veils' over it. Here's how i think about it- When painting there is a way to lay thin layers color over and over the same area. It is important to let dry between colors or it all becomes muddy. The layers add a dimension- depth happens and the area is or may be seen differently because the viewer is focusing on the surface or even a few layers deep. But there is still the opportunity to focus and see the base area.

I'm just thinking here... guessing ... making a story.
Could these symbols ex triangle- be codes from our deepest heart, recognized by all in the Genetic Mind System consciously or unconsciously but known, as Carl Jung says the Archetypes are known. They are coded with information... but it may be the FOCUS and INTENTION that is the magic that changes how something is seen. If true - it can be changed again. yahoo!

An example of obscuring or changing meaning:
The swastika was an ancient symbol of life (in many cultures) long before being used by the Nazi. In a short time- a very few years- the same symbol was transformed and is now seem by many as a symbol of death.

Czymra · 01-22-2009, 11:06 PM

Ah, this sounds like we're getting somewhere. Are you in the opinion of the base layer to be something like a general truth? That's where I just can't find peace. Is there something like a natural original state? Is the base layer the real thing or is is just the Urgedanke?

Conspiracy theorists would say that the layers are there to obscure the true meaning and syphon the energy through the symbol like that (however that works outside social dynamics) while the 'all is fine' folk would say that each layer adds to the meaning of the symbol and is equally important as the symbol expands into infinity, or some such.

Neither really rings true and I wonder if there is a paradoxical balance to be found here.

EarthBowl · 01-22-2009, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Czymra

Are you in the opinion of the base layer to be something like a general truth? That's where I just can't find peace.

I took a basic philosophy class once. It was Plato, I think, who believed in universal truth, universal beauty etc. Something all other truth, beauty etc. was based on - independent of us or our judgements.

I could go both ways here. First Source could be the source of the universals, but if I thought that was true- wouldnt I again be trying to put the Source of All, in my little box.

...a Wingmaker quote I have on my wall;

"The fundamental frequency of expression that issues from First Source- is appreciation of life in all its forms with a love that is absent of condition or judgment."

LOTS is happening now... frequencies, energy; my understandiings are changing every day. I don't know whats true or even who I am.

But I LOVE IT!

Dakini · 01-23-2009, 06:41 PM

One thing that just came to mind...and those with a physical science mind would explain it better than me...

Close to the basic 'building' blocks of physical life are geometric patterns. Our DNA is apparently crystalline, so from there, physical structures are built. Less tangible are the waves, the alchemists views of the prima materia, the formless base of matter. Particles, waves...wouldn't it seem that symbols then emerged and have evolved ever since?

Czymra · 01-24-2009, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakini

One thing that just came to mind...and those with a physical science mind would explain it better than me...

Close to the basic 'building' blocks of physical life are geometric patterns. Our DNA is apparently crystalline, so from there, physical structures are built. Less tangible are the waves, the alchemists views of the prima materia, the formless base of matter. Particles, waves...wouldn't it seem that symbols then emerged and have evolved ever since?

Good point, I never heard that DNA is crystalline but that the evolution of shapes that are basic to life is a great argument, one that is more convincing than the repeating of 'images are universal'. Thanks.

I'll look differently on the symbols around me and hope that the biological models I have been taught are correct.

Dakini · 01-25-2009, 10:30 PM

Another idea that just came in...
images can come from nature...so think about the shapes that have been on earth, as well as other planets and star systems...

I think all this is very interesting. Thanks for stimulating us all, Czymra.

Czymra · 01-26-2009, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakini

Another idea that just came in...
images can come from nature...so think about the shapes that have been on earth, as well as other planets and star systems...

I think all this is very interesting. Thanks for stimulating us all, Czymra.

Yes, that reminds me of that film about the electronic sun, in which they connected all the ancient symbols and identified them as cosmic constellations, the centre of the galaxy or electric filaments.

Quite interesting to uncover some of these origins. I wonder how many modern symbols one could map like that. I imagine quite many. Maybe I'll have a go.

01-20-2009, 04:30 PM	#3
Humble Janitor Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,201	Re: Symbolism/Language/Focus Had a dream recently where the numbers 772 and 13 were prominent. It was odd and actually 3 dreams in 1.

01-21-2009, 05:58 PM	#4
Dakini Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Connecticut Posts: 152	Re: Symbolism/Language/Focus My sense, and also from my reading and direct experience, is that symbols arise from the Collective. Carl Jung devoted much of professional life to their interpretation, re: Man and His Symbols is good place to start. He advocated that no symbol is connected to a dogmatic interpretation. Symbols surpass any secular language and are universal - therefor any being from any system or time/place can experience them and get similar meaning. The mystics write greatly on having visions of symbols. I myself have received hundreds over the years - quite profound ones. When the symbol or even ancient word is given in a vision or dream, it can be absolutely transformational - simply ask what it means. Begin there. If you receive an internal answer - wonderful. If not, after a few days, go the internet - you will be blown away by what you can often find. The psyche gives us symbols via dreams. I had a powerful dream last year ... I am secretly holding a golden brown elixir called "Rasa." I haven't heard of this word before. Lucidly, I wonder what this is...I am in a group of women that I think I have to give some to...share it with everyone here...but some of the women become mean and petty...I realize I cannot give them the Rasa...it's too precious...I sense they are not worthy yet, besides, I don't really know yet the effects of it...and soon I know that it is me alone who needs to take it. I turn the Rasa over in my hand, it is sticky and looks sweet. I raise it to my lips...and the dream ends. I do 'my asking,' I believe I understand the power of it, but I want to know more and go to the internet. What I find on Rasa is incredible and very affirming of what I am experiencing at the time. (If anyone has any info on Rasa, I'd love to hear it, btw.) This is just one example of the universal way that Spirit/The Soul Self speaks. Clients often ask me where they can begin their spiritual journey. I tell them to begin to record dreams in the present tense. Be ready! Once you actively engage the psyche, something very exciting starts. The part of you that has so longed to connect to your conscious self begins to speak - in symbols. Dakini Last edited by Dakini; 01-21-2009 at 06:37 PM.

01-21-2009, 06:05 PM	#5
Dakini Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Connecticut Posts: 152	Re: Symbolism/Language/Focus Humble Janitor, One of the interpretations of 13... From the Major Arcana of the Tarot - 13 is the Death card - a very auspicious one for death of the old and is a herald of of "rebirth, transformation, and even transfiguration. You can choose to shed your past and eliminate your previous existence...you will then be in a position to assume the position of refinement, prepared for the spiritual Sun and celestial waters to nurture you into replete, newborn splendor." Marcia Macino Jeez, I'm all excited for you...! 772 - what is your date of birth? Dakini

01-21-2009, 06:18 PM	#6
Dakini Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Connecticut Posts: 152	Re: Symbolism/Language/Focus Czymra, In response to your second question, "Why use symbols?" One reason is that because symbols are universal and resonate directly with the Collective and the Soul Self, it is one way to get the message delivered undiluted. It's a communication that transpires. It's sort of akin to the universal language of medical terminology, which is standardized across all countries and software and hardware programming and protocols and yes, using symbols. Does anyone realize what was accomplished when creating a brand new universal language with computer systems? Awesome. Which is one reason why high level internet insiders are saying that the internet will never go down...they will make sure of it. Last edited by Dakini; 01-21-2009 at 06:37 PM.

01-22-2009, 12:28 AM	#7
Czymra Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 1,151	Re: Symbolism/Language/Focus Thanks for all your replies first of all. I'm glad to see such interest by itself. However, I've not yet seen what I was looking for. The revelations about the moon are precious to me, the dream terminology I'm catching on to, but I haven't seen any hard fact. Okay, maybe there aren't any hard facts on this topic but at least some 'hard argumentation'. I hear it claimed again that symbols are a 'universal language' but if they aren't pure as such how can they be? Aren't there misinterpretations? I could understand if any interpretation is right the the openness of the symbols IS the very facet that lends the visual realm back its self-arrangement. However, the concept breaks down for me when looking at geometric symbols. I mean, the triangle is so pure, if you leave away all the association, it just is in all it's simplicity and complexity. The same goes for a circle. Is it a ring, a ball, a cylinder, an area, is there depth? It doesn't matter for it's all the same! That doesn't work with a symbolistic approach for 'lightning' though.

01-22-2009, 04:55 PM	#8
EarthBowl Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Vermont Posts: 66	Re: Symbolism/Language/Focus my intuitive thought only- We are one. On earth we bought into the illusion of separation. We may or may not consciously be aware of our collective unconsciousness / genetic mind system - which is only a thin wispy image construct to remind us of our Oneness. We are creators- it is what we do. Symbols- including all images made by us, are attempts at communication in this collective unconscious or genetic mind system. Symbols -fuzzy images that attempt to trigger a recollection of a truth in the Oneness. Reminders to remember, that can gather or divide. I am an artist who uses symbols and words. I feel the power in the symbols but know the real power is the connection established between those who resonate with the focused image- symbol-object. In the same way writers / poets - use symbol language to show you something they see- feel- understand. This condensed focus may open up a similar place in you. So realized consciously or not - that is a connection. I think connection could be the purpose.

01-22-2009, 08:05 PM	#9
Czymra Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 1,151	Re: Symbolism/Language/Focus That is how I feel as well but that doesn't account for the consistent use of the pyramid in i.e. Masonic imaging. If I put a pyramid, have no idea what it means, maybe I want it to be a huge three dimensional arrowhead, pointing at something else, does it still have those connotations? Will unknowing people feel that connotation sub-consciously even without ever having learned about the Masonic meaning? For what you say sounds as if the symbol is merely a channel, a graphical representation of an image, that due to its geometry can be interpreted, which and whatever way the interpretation happens then, is just a question of conditioning of the observer or the context within the piece (if you ignore the conscious mind at least).

01-22-2009, 11:06 PM	#11
Czymra Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 1,151	Re: Symbolism/Language/Focus Ah, this sounds like we're getting somewhere. Are you in the opinion of the base layer to be something like a general truth? That's where I just can't find peace. Is there something like a natural original state? Is the base layer the real thing or is is just the Urgedanke? Conspiracy theorists would say that the layers are there to obscure the true meaning and syphon the energy through the symbol like that (however that works outside social dynamics) while the 'all is fine' folk would say that each layer adds to the meaning of the symbol and is equally important as the symbol expands into infinity, or some such. Neither really rings true and I wonder if there is a paradoxical balance to be found here.

01-23-2009, 06:41 PM	#13
Dakini Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Connecticut Posts: 152	Re: Symbolism/Language/Focus One thing that just came to mind...and those with a physical science mind would explain it better than me... Close to the basic 'building' blocks of physical life are geometric patterns. Our DNA is apparently crystalline, so from there, physical structures are built. Less tangible are the waves, the alchemists views of the prima materia, the formless base of matter. Particles, waves...wouldn't it seem that symbols then emerged and have evolved ever since?

01-25-2009, 10:30 PM	#15
Dakini Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Connecticut Posts: 152	Re: Symbolism/Language/Focus Another idea that just came in... images can come from nature...so think about the shapes that have been on earth, as well as other planets and star systems... I think all this is very interesting. Thanks for stimulating us all, Czymra.