Vegetarians or Vegans?

[Jonah]

Please consider that test were done on people that do not eat meat. It was conclusive that with out the properties that meat gives the brain it leads to memory loss in later years.

[Jacqui D]

i have been vegetarian for many years now, also do not have dairy.
Like a previous post if i had to eat meat now i think it would make me very ill.
Don't know about the ascention thing but not eating living things must surely give you a cleansed body and soul.

[Phtha]

Originally Posted by Vorian's Revenge

Please consider that test were done on people that do not eat meat. It was conclusive that with out the properties that meat gives the brain it leads to memory loss in later years.

Source of this study? Sounds like the normal FDA type method of scewing views on health and reality to me.

I went vegan about 6 months ago. My main reason at the time was because it was so hard to find meat that isn't loaded with antibiotics and growth hormones. Now there are many many more reasons why I'm glad I made my choice.

[eddiefibbro]

Well, yes I am a vegetarian. Been one since i was 24 years old and now I am 61. I have raised 7 children as vegetarians and split roughly 50/50 they are by choice veg or non veg.

Originally, a Hindu/karma/ living in India inspiration. Now that I know all religions are mind control BUT intuitively knowing it is important I have discovered the proper reason (in my view) it is important to refrain from eating the flesh of living beings.

We are living in a giant holographic universe that operates off the binary of FEAR and LOVE. It is easy to understand that when the Annunaki set up the scene for humanity's next 5,200 year cycle (26,000/5) now drawing to an end, they put in place programs that would guarantee their domination through fear of human kind The Temple of Solomon was the perfect program, dedicated as it was to presenting the burnt offering of flesh to the gods. There humans were introduced to the idea of Sacrifice of Life to feed the gods. We know the stories of the Astral near dimensional beings who harvest human emotion ( a transformation of sun light) just as humans harvest plants and animals (transformations of sunlight).

This is the core program of the Predators, something they call the food chain, survival of the fittest, dog eat dog etc. However, we are deeply into a program of planetary ascension. The process involves each individual making CONSCIOUS choices that are opportunities to evolve based upon the established binary program- FEAR or LOVE.

We are programmed by the dominant culture to choose FEAR. The choice for each Soul is to go with the flow OR to resist the fear that is designed to funnel all the Sheeple into the corral.

The opposition- benevolent ETs, self realized reincarnatees, sincere souls are always pre-disposed to seek information (LIGHT) and pass it on. LIGHT is the precursor of LOVE. So, one happy and do-it-yourself program available to us all is the the free will choice we make in respect to feeding the body. By recognizing CONSCIOUSNESS as the presence of life and CHOOSING to honor life rather than take it for the sustenance of our own flesh, we have an opportunity on a daily basis to reinforce our tendency to choose LOVE over FEAR.

The Ascension moment- whether it is 21/12/2012 or in 20 minutes- will be a unique subjective moment when each individual has the opportunity to make the the personal FEAR/LOVE choice which will write that person's ticket for metaphorically the next 26,000 years. So, LIGHT says, Eat for Love!

[Phtha]

Btw here is a good show to convert meat eaters to veggies.

http://www.chooseveg.com/animal-cruelty.asp

It's hosted by one of the Baldwins.

[uniconr]

Originally Posted by Vorian's Revenge

Please consider that test were done on people that do not eat meat. It was conclusive that with out the properties that meat gives the brain it leads to memory loss in later years.

vorian here is referring to vitamin b12. it is found naturally only in meat and animal products. edit: or not. read Phtha's link and associated articles long term deficiency can be fatal.

it is an essential supplement for vegans. while it is possible to derive a multitude of vitamins and minerals from vegetable sources, if you are not eating meat, dairy, or eggs, you are most likely deficient in b12 edit: but dont take my word for it, get a blood test!

the studies have been numerous, but most of them are portrayed as 'proof' that vegetarian/vegan diet is not good for you, that it will shrink your brain, cause irreversible nerve damage etc etc

if youre going to eat a vegetable-based diet, it is really important to learn a few things about nutrition. you are missing out on a lot of nutrients if you dont know to eat the right foods. what comes to mind immediately are the essential fatty acids, omega 3 6 and 9, but lately, in canada at least, the trend has been to fortify a lot of different foods with those, and many breakfast cereals as well as soy/rice/nut/hemp milk are fortified with b12 but dont depend on those.

unfortunately, i feel confident in saying that most humans are malnourished in some way, regardless of dietary structure. most people should really be on multivitamins..

much love,
a vegan

[Phtha]

After gaining a huge distrust for anything that is planted in the public spectrum by so called "professionals", double so when it comes from the medical profession, I started researching this b12 issue after a friend warned me about it.

Here is a good article on the b12 hoax.
The Vitamin B12 Hoax by V.V. Vetrano, B.S., D.C.

Originally Posted by uniconr

vorian here is referring to vitamin b12. it is found naturally ///only in meat and animal products. long term deficiency can be fatal.

it is an essential supplement for vegans. while it is possible to derive a multitude of vitamins and minerals from vegetable sources, if you are not eating meat, dairy, or eggs, you are most likely deficient in b12

the studies have been numerous, but most of them are portrayed as 'proof' that vegetarian/vegan diet is not good for you, that it will shrink your brain, cause irreversible nerve damage etc etc EAT YER SUPPLEMENTS

[uniconr]

v interesting. the b12 articles (i read five) on the raw foods site are saying that the standard for healthy b12 levels is much higher for high fat and meat oriented diets, due to impediments to absorption, than for the vegan diet. applying one standard to the other diet is incorrect.
im not a medical professional and so i have never asked to see the chemical analysis of my bloodwork, but i was told that said tests showed i had a 'marked deficiency'. its possible that the test results would show my levels were unhealthy for a conventional diet, but healthy for a vegan diet. or its possible that i really do have a deficiency, im lucky enough to be part a very select group, what the articles refer to as 'one or two vegans' being low on b12. i wasnt found to be anemic though
while the link between pernicious anemia and b12 was disputed, there are other problems associated with low b12 levels. things directly associated with b12s function in the body, like cell metabolism and dna synthesis, and problems arising from chronic deficiency, the decay/sclerosis of nervous tissue in the brain and spine.

thanks for the link though! and i apologize for my post reading as 'eat your vitamins or die' or stating that vegans et al. were 'most likely deficient'. i too distrust the medical profession, but i dont have the facilities to do my own blood tests, and thats currently the only way to gauge nutrient levels

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

I am a hypocrite vegatarioan. (I eat fish)

My wife is a vegan

[David]

The smell of red meat gets me sick. I eat fish and lots of vegetables.

[Phtha]

Originally Posted by uniconr

thanks for the link though! and i apologize for my post reading as 'eat your vitamins or die' or stating that vegans et al. were 'most likely deficient'. i too distrust the medical profession, but i dont have the facilities to do my own blood tests, and thats currently the only way to gauge nutrient levels

I understand where you coming from. The problem with getting blood tests is the results are measured against standards that are more then likely fraudulent or just plain wrong.
These are the same folks that are telling us cancer is a genetic disease and virtually incurable. Today because of the "wisdom" of the establishment, 1 in 4 people will develop this disease in a lifetime, and you don't have to go far back in time to realize cancer rarely even existed 200 years ago. There are at least 4 cancer cures that have been completely suppressed from the public since the early 1900's. And the same goes for many of the other so called diseases we get.

Sorry for going off topic a little but I just don't trust a thing they tell us. My personal belief (because of much research) is that the whole medical establishment needs to go away. It "cures" people from illness that are caused directly from chemicals and other foreign substances that they put in our food/water and air. The amount of people that die from doctors and other medical professionals is equivalent to a 911 attack every week. That's not called "healthcare".

On the bright side of things, eating a healthy diet and not intaking foreign substances will make us virtually disease free, as we are meant to be. Disease and sickness is not part of our makeup as we have been taught.

Much love.

[chelmostef]

Originally Posted by Phtha

.
These are the same folks that are telling us cancer is a genetic disease and virtually incurable. 1 in 4 people will develop this disease in a lifetime. There are at least 4 cancer cures that have been completely suppressed from the public since the early 1900's. And the same goes for many of the other so called diseases we get. It "cures" people from illness that are caused directly from chemicals and other foreign substances that they put in our food/water and air. The amount of people that die from doctors and other medical professionals is equivalent to a 911 attack every week. That's not called "healthcare".

Still off topic but I totally agree with this. I am very seceptical of the pharmaceutical industry. They thrive if ill health. They dont want to cure us but to buy more drugs. Anti-depressents that make you suicidal can't be good. A drug for this and a drug for that. If it the sole purpose was not to make money a profits they would cure us!!

I would like to add though, if the worst case scenario does happen. And If food is in short supply what drugs or vitamins would be worth will having in a kit bag to keep one going? Maybe thats for a new post though..

Stef

[arcora]

This thread is very good news for me.

After all hell breaks loose and only we enlightened people are left standing, red meat will be plentiful.

[Morgan]

To add to the B12 discussion, I have read in multiple many (non-MSM) books/places that the B12 levels they state as 'normal' on blood tests are not only INCREDIBLY vast in range (I think the labs I go to say 200-800?), but also many alternative health professionals will tell you that 200 is WAY TOO LOW. Most people start to feel low energy and other symptoms of B12 deficiency before ever dipping below that level. (I was one of them.)

Additionally, the "healthy" or "normal" levels on the blood tests are actually 'averages' or what have you of the samples blood labs take from people. (Check out books by Sherry A. Rogers MD for more specifics. She's an allergist who became anti-pharmaceuticals and now treats people by looking for causes, recommends supplements, saunas, etc.) Now use logic - who gets their blood tested most often, sick people or healthy people? And who is more likely to be vitamin deficient? Dr Rogers basically states that the levels medical labs use for 'normal' are too low for people who want to be genuinely healthy.

B12 is only found in animal products, or, I am told, in fermented foods. Bacteria can produce it.

Looking for a supplement, aim for B12 in the form of methylcobalamin. (The cyanocobalamin is not absorbed as readily.)

-------

Now I want to comment on being vegan/vegetarian. I was vegetarian for 9 years and vegan for over half that duration, until becoming severely ill. My diet wasn't ace, but I was more nutritionally informed than probably 90% of people. I was deficient in all kinds of micronutrients and found to be allergic to literally ALL grains (yes, even spelt and the alternative grains).

I switched to a meat, veggie, and fruit diet. My health has recovered considerably.

So my 'beef' (ha) with this 'vegetarianism is more spiritual' is that - what do I do? With my allergies and other health experiences, I barely survive on a vegetarian diet, nevermind vegan. There has been much research into epileptics and other health conditions that show some people/health conditions do MUCH better on ketogenic or high protein diets.

So what does one say to my sector of the population? We won't ascend because we can't survive on plants alone? We will never progress spiritually because our ill health requires us to eat animal sources of protein?

I totally 100% support vegetarians/vegans, and I would be one were I in a different situation. I just find it hard to believe that my spiritual advancement would be blocked because in this incarnation I have conditions that require me to adhere to a particular diet in order to function in society.

I don't mean to cause any trouble either, and I love this thread, but I had to speak up on this. Vegetarianism, done with some knowledge, is absolutely healthy and ideal for people who are suited to it.

[chelmostef]

Originally Posted by Morgan

Most people start to feel low energy and other symptoms of B12 deficiency before ever dipping below that level. (I was one of them.) until becoming severely ill. My diet wasn't ace, but I was more nutritionally informed than probably 90% of people. I was deficient in all kinds of micronutrients and found to be allergic to literally ALL grains (yes, even spelt and the alternative grains). I switched to a meat, veggie, and fruit diet. My health has recovered considerably. So my 'beef' (ha) with this 'vegetarianism is more spiritual' is that - what do I do? With my allergies and other health experiences, I barely survive on a vegetarian diet, nevermind vegan. .
So what does one say to my sector of the population? We won't ascend because we can't survive on plants alone? We will never progress spiritually because our ill health requires us to eat animal sources of protein?
.

Thats a tricky situation to be in. If it effects your own health and well being, then you have no choice, its just something you cant do. You have tried it to you own detriment maybe this is enough. I have heard acording to you blood group that this can affect which foods you can eat.
Maybe its ones frame of mind that counts towards ascention, living in harmany with the world around us.
I have always thought it was a fallacy put out by meat eaters that you need meat, maybe I am wrong.
I personally have never had any ill health or felt less fit or had less energy from being vegan. I would go as far to say I feel much better for it.
I am not blowing my own trumpet, but I am a lot fitter than most people.
As for B12 vitamin, I looked at my chocolate alpro soya milk and for a 250ml serving you get 1.25ug or 125% of your RDA(recommended daily allowance) of B12 amongst other things + For 30g of my cornflakes I get 30% of my B12s

Maybe thats why I havent gone completely crazy despite what my freinds say!

[King Lear]

Meat is my vegetable!

[chelmostef]

Got chucked of the other threads did we king liar

[Phtha]

Originally Posted by King Lear

Meat is my vegetable!

That quote on your attachment implies to 99.99% of meat eaters as well. They get someone else to murder for them.

[igniop]

99% Vegan here! (I do occasionally succumb to pizza with cheese

I do believe that everybody has different needs - we just need to listen to our body and the vegan diet is not for everybody!
as for B12 - one can get enough through dairy and eggs.
as for getting sick - for me, I have been the same as when i was eating meat.
My husband has been vegan for 11 years and for the 5 years that i know him he has never been sick - not even once!


here are some stuff from wikipedia:

Health benefits and concerns

Vegetarianism is considered a healthy, viable diet. The American Dietetic Association and the Dietitians of Canada have found a properly-planned vegetarian diet to satisfy the nutritional needs for all stages of life, and large-scale studies have shown vegetarianism to significantly lower risks of cancer, ischaemic heart disease, and other fatal diseases.[10][11][35] Necessary nutrients, proteins, and amino acids for the body's sustenance can be found in green leafy vegetables, grains, nuts, and fortified juices or soymilk.[36]

Vegetarian diets can aid in keeping body weight under control[37][38] and substantially reduce risks of heart disease and osteoporosis.[39][40][39][40] Non-lean red meat, in particular, has been found to be directly associated with dramatically increased risk of cancers of the lung, oesophagus, liver, and colon.[13][41] Other studies have shown that there were no significant differences between vegetarians and nonvegetarians in mortality from cerebrovascular disease, stomach cancer, colorectal cancer, breast cancer, or prostate cancer.[42]

The American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada have stated: "Vegetarian diets offer a number of nutritional benefits, including lower levels of saturated fat, cholesterol, and animal protein as well as higher levels of carbohydrates, fiber, magnesium, potassium, folate, and antioxidants such as vitamins C and E and phytochemicals."[35]

Vitamin B12

Plants are not generally significant sources of Vitamin B12,[51] However, vegetarians can obtain B12 from dairy products, eggs, fortified foods and dietary supplements.[52][53] Since the human body preserves B12 and reuses it without destroying the substance, clinical evidence of B12 deficiency is uncommon.[54][55] The body can preserve stores of the vitamin for up to 30 years without needing its supplies to be replenished.[51]

The recommendation of taking supplements has been challenged by studies indicating that exogenous B12 may actually interfere with the proper absorption of this vitamin in its natural form.[56] The research on vitamin B12 sources has increased in the latest years[57] and researchers at Hiroshima University have developed methods for growing plants rich in vitamin B12.[58]

[Blufire77]

The free will choice to become vegetarian or vegan has always been interesting and at the same time perplexing to me . . . . especially the part about not eating something that once was a living sentient being.

I spend the majority of my time outside on my farm growing organic food and tending to the various medicinal herbs and plants that I grow both by cultivation and wild crafting. Plants and trees for me are just as alive as the numerous animals here on the farm. When we harvest the vegetables, grains and fruits their “life force” is released and the plant “dies” . . . . it no longer can continue to grow or live through its natural cycle of life.

When I am in the garden or woods the plants and trees share their energy and communicate to me in a different way than an animal or person, but there is an emotional response none the less. Most have probably heard about plants that are talked to or are lovingly cared for are healthier than those left alone and given only the basic needs of life. Is this not a “form” of emotional intelligent response?

I eat all types of meat, eggs and dairy products as well as fruits, whole grains and vegetables. I embrace and accept my “human” designation in the “animal” kingdom and part of that designation is an “omnivore”, one who consumes both plants and meat. Humans are not classified as carnivores (meat only eaters) or herbivores (plant only eaters). Our bodies require complex proteins and amino acids that only red meat can supply. Does that mean that humans cannot survive on only a plant or meat only diet? No obviously humans can as many of you in this forum do. But there is a difference between surviving and thriving.

I am striving toward a completely off-grid, self-sustaining environment. Part of being self-sustaining means not only do I grow all the food I eat, I also grow all the food my livestock eat. All life on this farm (four and two legged and rooted) is respected, loved and honored. I abhor the way animals are treated in mass producing slaughter houses and I will not eat meat produced in this way . . . for many reasons not only morally. I also detest mass produced vegetables and fruits. These “living beings” are also grown in toxic, hostile environments.

At this point, I would like to state that I strongly take objection with the idea that only vegetarians or vegans can ascend to a higher level of enlightenment. My personal enlightenment and spiritual growth rapidly took off at the point I began meditating and praying outside in all weather and seasons while going about the daily tasks of farm life . . . . all tasks of farm life. I have became very sanguine and completely at peace with the “circle of life”. Simply with the absolute knowledge and understanding that “life” never, ever ends . . . .it is unfathomably and wonderfully infinite.

So for me when one says they are superior to me because they only eat “dead” plants, fruits and vegetables means that perhaps they should come here to my humble little farm and shovel poop.

[uniconr]

Originally Posted by Blufire77

When we harvest the vegetables, grains and fruits their “life force” is released and the plant “dies” . . . . it no longer can continue to grow or live through its natural cycle of life.
..
Our bodies require complex proteins and amino acids that only red meat can supply. Does that mean that humans cannot survive on only a plant or meat only diet? No obviously humans can as many of you in this forum do. But there is a difference between surviving and thriving.
..
So for me when one says they are superior to me because they only eat “dead” plants, fruits and vegetables means that perhaps they should come here to my humble little farm and shovel poop.

i disagree with the idea that harvest means death. i believe much of the life force is still present in the plant until it is broken down in some way, either by digestion bacterial or animal, or by cooking.

plants still reproduce sexually, but when its seeds germinate in the ground around the plant, competition for water and sunlight wont do either plant or sprout any good. plants need animals to poop their seeds far and wide, thats why fruit is so delicious! the infinity of animal life though does not benefit from being eaten..

i dont think that meat consumption is a detriment to spiritual growth, and i dont think exclusive vegetable consumption is a detriment to thriving.

in conclusion shoveling poop is really good money. for serious

[pineal-pilot-in merkabah]

mostly vegan here, if i visit others houses and are given gifts of food then i accept dairy products. been veggie since 2000 and vegan for a year. i will eat meat if i have to tho if it comes to it. obv wild rabbits or deer or whatever squirrels?? im also looking at buying a few hundered cans of sardines for absolute emergencies!!

[uniconr]

Originally Posted by Morgan

I was deficient in all kinds of micronutrients and found to be allergic to literally ALL grains (yes, even spelt and the alternative grains).
..
So my 'beef' (ha) with this 'vegetarianism is more spiritual' is that - what do I do? With my allergies and other health experiences, I barely survive on a vegetarian diet, nevermind vegan. There has been much research into epileptics and other health conditions that show some people/health conditions do MUCH better on ketogenic or high protein diets.
..
So what does one say to my sector of the population? We won't ascend because we can't survive on plants alone? We will never progress spiritually because our ill health requires us to eat animal sources of protein?

its really surprising to me that a meat diet is your only option, but if it is truly the case then so be it. health is paramount.
to your segment of the population i would say talk to a nutritionist and if they know their onions theyll point you in the right direction.
grains arent even an essential to the human diet. have you looked into acupuncture? my girlfriend is actually being cured of a few of her allergies and sensitivities, but it tends to be pretty expensive..

[truthseekersearching]

Interesting topic.

I have toiled with whether a human body actually "needs" meat to sustain itself or not, for a few years now. My gut tells me it’s all about your individual DNA make-up whether or not your body can effectively process meat or not. I personally and two other direct family members have had to have our gallbladders removed, which is the main organ that breaks down fat from meat products, so the cards are stacked against me from a physiological standpoint.

Personally, not eating meat is a moral decision I have made. I have also learned that meat and dairy products are low vibration foods and I have received enlightenment to stop consuming low vibration foods. Not eating dairy products has been a challenge.

Realistically, if certain outcomes do come to pass, meat wrapped in a nice little package in the refrigerated isle of your local grocery store will become a thing of the past and consumers will either need to hunt for their meat, which brings up the topic of who owns the meat that you hunt? Unless you are hunting wild hoofed stock chances are the meat you are stalking is owned by a rancher somewhere and you run the risk of being shot for stealing their meat. That would mean consumers would need to rely on a very unsanitary open market scenario to buy/trade for meat.

Interesting topic indeed.

Peace

[King Lear]

I'm soooo mean