Stocks tumble on fears about Dubai debt fallout

piers2210 · 11-30-2009, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peaceandlove

You're back! Hi Piers!

Hi there PaL! Just visiting really...i do occasionally look in, but often don't bother to sign in, this forum is monitored for sure.

P.

BROOK · 11-30-2009, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piers2210

Hi there PaL! Just visiting really...i do occasionally look in, but often don't bother to sign in, this forum is monitored for sure.

P.

Hi Piers! Monitored? Who us? ...hahaha

peaceandlove · 11-30-2009, 11:12 PM

My God, There Is A Wise Govermment

Monday, November 30. 2009
Posted by Karl Denninger

It just happens to be in the Middle East: Dubai World’s Debt Not Guaranteed by Government http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2...dvgvqhps&pos=1

Nov. 30 (Bloomberg) -- Dubai’s government said it hasn’t guaranteed the debt of Dubai World, the state-controlled holding company struggling with $59 billion in liabilities, and that creditors must help it restructure.

“The company received financing based on its project schedule, not a government guarantee,” Abdulrahman Al Saleh, director general of the emirate’s Department of Finance, said in an interview with Dubai TV, when asked whether the government was backing the debt. “Lenders should bear part of the responsibility.”

Ding ding ding ding ding ding.

You make a bad loan predicated on a bunch of pump-monkey nonsense instead of sound underwriting, and it goes bad, you are going to take a big fat loss!

How come we can't get this right? Why is it that we protect creditors while slamming debtors? Are you going to tell me that the only place there is a "free market" left in lending is in the freaking middle east?!

“The times of implicit support are clearly over,” said Philipp Lotter, vice-president of Moody’s Investors Service in Dubai. “In the past entities such as Dubai World certainly represented themselves as quasi-government entities, whereas there was no legal obligation on behalf of the government to support, and that has certainly shifted with last week’s announcement.”

Where have we heard that before? Oh yeah...

CONTINUES: http://market-ticker.denninger.net/a...overmment.html

peaceandlove · 12-04-2009, 11:53 PM

Friday, December 4. 2009
Posted by Karl Denninger

Heh, I Thought Dubai Was a Non-Event?

Then what's this that the market is totally ignoring today? Creditors to refuse Dubai World deal http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...bai-world-deal

Creditors of Dubai World http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/dubai-world are expected to reject a standstill agreement proposed by the company, threatening to drag out negotiations over $26bn (£15bn) worth of the conglomerate's debt.

Advisers involved in the talks tonight said that the process could take months as more than 100 accountants, lawyers, bankers and other professionals descended on Dubai from London. "There won't be a standstill agreement," one said.

Eh, that could get fun. Refusal to stand-still means there's an immediate default, which means the CDS go boom.

Me thinks the weekend could be verrrry interesting, especially given the "hype and hope" trading we've got in the US markets today on the employment situation report.

Question for the Peanut Gallery: Who holds the risk on those CDS, and how much?

SOURCE: http://market-ticker.denninger.net/a...Non-Event.html

11-30-2009, 11:12 PM	#3
peaceandlove Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Turtle Island Posts: 2,776	Re: Stocks tumble on fears about Dubai debt fallout My God, There Is A Wise Govermment Monday, November 30. 2009 Posted by Karl Denninger It just happens to be in the Middle East: Dubai World’s Debt Not Guaranteed by Government http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2...dvgvqhps&pos=1 Nov. 30 (Bloomberg) -- Dubai’s government said it hasn’t guaranteed the debt of Dubai World, the state-controlled holding company struggling with $59 billion in liabilities, and that creditors must help it restructure. “The company received financing based on its project schedule, not a government guarantee,” Abdulrahman Al Saleh, director general of the emirate’s Department of Finance, said in an interview with Dubai TV, when asked whether the government was backing the debt. “Lenders should bear part of the responsibility.” Ding ding ding ding ding ding. You make a bad loan predicated on a bunch of pump-monkey nonsense instead of sound underwriting, and it goes bad, you are going to take a big fat loss! How come we can't get this right? Why is it that we protect creditors while slamming debtors? Are you going to tell me that the only place there is a "free market" left in lending is in the freaking middle east?! “The times of implicit support are clearly over,” said Philipp Lotter, vice-president of Moody’s Investors Service in Dubai. “In the past entities such as Dubai World certainly represented themselves as quasi-government entities, whereas there was no legal obligation on behalf of the government to support, and that has certainly shifted with last week’s announcement.” Where have we heard that before? Oh yeah... CONTINUES: http://market-ticker.denninger.net/a...overmment.html

12-04-2009, 11:53 PM	#4
peaceandlove Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Turtle Island Posts: 2,776	Re: Stocks tumble on fears about Dubai debt fallout Friday, December 4. 2009 Posted by Karl Denninger Heh, I Thought Dubai Was a Non-Event? Then what's this that the market is totally ignoring today? Creditors to refuse Dubai World deal http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...bai-world-deal Creditors of Dubai World http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/dubai-world are expected to reject a standstill agreement proposed by the company, threatening to drag out negotiations over $26bn (£15bn) worth of the conglomerate's debt. Advisers involved in the talks tonight said that the process could take months as more than 100 accountants, lawyers, bankers and other professionals descended on Dubai from London. "There won't be a standstill agreement," one said. Eh, that could get fun. Refusal to stand-still means there's an immediate default, which means the CDS go boom. Me thinks the weekend could be verrrry interesting, especially given the "hype and hope" trading we've got in the US markets today on the employment situation report. Question for the Peanut Gallery: Who holds the risk on those CDS, and how much? SOURCE: http://market-ticker.denninger.net/a...Non-Event.html