Where Are We on 9-11 Truth?

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Originally Posted by micjer

Yes I do agree. It needs to be reinvestigated, and hard evidence (that was quickly put into containers and sent to China) is what is required to get results.

Most disasters sit with caution tape around it for a period of time until investigators do their thing. Heck the dust hadn't even settled and they were carting it out of there. More proof that it was all premeditated.

The only smoking gun with the beam weapon theory may be in what melted and deformed the vehicles? Is there a way of proving they were done with microwave energy? Certainly very bizarre.





Why does this ambulance have melted inside doors? The inside looks to have suffered more heat damage than the outside. What would cause that?








http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/JJ/JJ1.html

Here is an hypothosis:

http://www.911blogger.com/node/15847


Interview with Judy Wood and breakdown of interview: (she evades lots of questions and is very vague and her evidence is faulty and does not seem to know what she is talking about)

http://www.911blogger.com/node/8110

Also read this:

http://www.journalof911studies.com/v...ry-Jenkins.pdf

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Originally Posted by EYES WIDE OPEN

Here is an hypothosis:

http://www.911blogger.com/node/15847


Interview with Judy Wood and breakdown of interview: (she evades lots of questions and is very vague and her evidence is faulty and does not seem to know what she is talking about)

http://www.911blogger.com/node/8110

Also read this:

http://www.journalof911studies.com/v...ry-Jenkins.pdf

any comments?

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by EYES WIDE OPEN

any comments?

I am reading everyone's posts but I'll defer to others. I have not listened to Judy Wood recently; I only remember her from a couple of years ago.

I started this thread because of the allegation that there are disloyal Americans - paid disinfo agents - within the truth movement!

That is what concerns me. That's the allegation that I'm trying to clear up. What will it take to do that?

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by Seashore

I am reading everyone's posts but I'll defer to others. I have not listened to Judy Wood recently; I only remember her from a couple of years ago.

I started this thread because of the allegation that there are disloyal Americans - paid disinfo agents - within the truth movement!

That is what concerns me. That's the allegation that I'm trying to clear up. What will it take to do that?

Is it not true that it is being alleged by anyone that within the 9-11 truth movement there are paid disinfo agents?

[micjer]

This is no different than when JFK was assinated. Mix facts with truth so that there becomes too many theories to prove what actually happened.

Now it is difficult to see who is disinfo and who is not. Chances are that disinfo will be telling 80% truth, and then mix in reasonable doubt so it would not stand up in court.

You know what I think....they are all partly true.

The plane (or cruise missile) definately did the intitial damage. Did not cause the towers to collapse.

Next you can see the mini explosions as the tower collapses. So I think there was mini-nukes/thermite planted in the towers at strategic points.

I believe that there is evidence that a scalar weapon was also involved. Total disintegration of everything but the paper. The vehicles have turned to jelly and a fire alone does not do this.

I think that the tower 7 was a controlled demolition. Testimony from witnesses (many of whom have been eliminated) point to explosions within the building just prior to its collapse at 5 pm. Silverstein said they "pulled it".




I don't expect agreement with me but this is what I am going with. Everyone should reach their own conclusions.

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by micjer

This is no different than when JFK was assinated. Mix facts with truth so that there becomes too many theories to prove what actually happened.

Now it is difficult to see who is disinfo and who is not. Chances are that disinfo will be telling 80% truth, and then mix in reasonable doubt so it would not stand up in court.

You know what I think....they are all partly true ...

Thank you, micjer.

Let's be more specific at this point. Let's name a 9-11 truther and get it on record if there is a member who believes he is a dis-info agent: Alex Jones.

Is there a member who believes Alex Jones is a paid 9-11 truth disinfo agent?

Also, have Judy Wood and Mel Mabregas intimated on air that Alex Jones is a disinfo agent?

[371]

.....Know what though?? Despite all this proof, whatever whatever.. NO ONE GIVES A ****



In mainstream America, that is. Why? It's not convenient.

Same deal with JFK, they didn't want to think about it then. Only now that it is been so long and doesn't seem to matter anymore do people acknowledge. It is just easier right now to blame Islamo-fascists, terrorism, blah blah blah.


US vs THEM.... what they fail to see, it is US vs US.


911=Burning of the Reichstag... this has gone on for a long, long time it seems- in one form or another.








blah, blah, blah..... question we should be asking ourselves I think is:

What does our awareness of all this mean? What can we do with it, to change? How to break a cycle and power structure that has been going on throughout recorded history??? How can we learn to live as ONE, with ourselves and with the rest of mankind?? How do we reconnect with Nature? How do we keep this from happening again???

There is ONE answer to all these questions. But we are not going to like it.

[micjer]

@Seashore,


Oh I see where you are going with this now. Perhaps Mel (Fabregas btw) could comment on this himself. He is Manticore on here for people that don't know.

So Mel can you help us out here?

[Majorion]

Originally Posted by Seashore

Is there a member who believes Alex Jones is a paid 9-11 truth disinfo agent?

In fact, I do.

This has been my opinion from day one.

He is there to 'control' the movement.

Thankfully, the multitude of theories and people taking different stances about 9/11 has not worked in Alex's favor.

Another thing is that I also do not agree about a 'reinvestigation'. Whats the point? You'll just get another cooked and well planned proceeding with the same conclusion already decided. In fact much of the 'new' evidence and witness testimony would be selectively discredited, one by one, piece by piece.

Then no one will ever question 9/11 again.

That's why I think the movement should be more centered around the process of 'waking people up', rather than trying to prove the government are murderers, when this is already established through the preponderance of evidence.

Personally, as outrageous as some people think, I really ted there may have been orbital weapons platforms and DEW's used for the false flag attack, perpetrated in the interests of extremist christian and zionist cabals, thus justifying tremendous budgets and public propaganda for several wars, which are more like training with new weapons against innocent people, and illegally occupying territory, and God knows what else.

I even heard that part of the motive for invading Iraq was to acquire, or rather, steal, certain artifacts in that area, perhaps to do with Sumerian Stargates.

Hey, who knows? - Hitler was certainly after stuff like that, before ultimately his demise.

Peace

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Originally Posted by Majorion

In fact, I do.

This has been my opinion from day one.

He is there to 'control' the movement.

Thankfully, the multitude of theories and people taking different stances about 9/11 has not worked in Alex's favor.

Another thing is that I also do not agree about a 'reinvestigation'. Whats the point? You'll just get another cooked and well planned proceeding with the same conclusion already decided. In fact much of the 'new' evidence and witness testimony would be selectively discredited, one by one, piece by piece.

Then no one will ever question 9/11 again.

That's why I think the movement should be more centered around the process of 'waking people up', rather than trying to prove the government are murderers, when this is already established through the preponderance of evidence.

Personally, as outrageous as some people think, I really ted there may have been orbital weapons platforms and DEW's used for the false flag attack, perpetrated in the interests of extremist christian and zionist cabals, thus justifying tremendous budgets and public propaganda for several wars, which are more like training with new weapons against innocent people, and illegally occupying territory, and God knows what else.

I even heard that part of the motive for invading Iraq was to acquire, or rather, steal, certain artifacts in that area, perhaps to do with Sumerian Stargates.

Hey, who knows? - Hitler was certainly after stuff like that, before ultimately his demise.

Peace

I prefer to concentrate on evidence that will get 9/11 re-opened. As I showed in my previous posts, space based weapons evidence is poor and the main pushers of this theory have no idea what they are talking about and their evidence is not empirical and they interpret it to fit their theories. Its bad science.
Jones does not control the truth movement nor is he trying to. There is no evidence of this. He is just a sensationalist is all.

[Majorion]

Originally Posted by EYES WIDE OPEN

I prefer to concentrate on evidence that will get 9/11 re-opened. As I showed in my previous posts, space based weapons evidence is poor and the main pushers of this theory have no idea what they are talking about and their evidence is not empirical and they interpret it to fit their theories. Its bad science.
Jones does not control the truth movement nor is he trying to. There is no evidence of this. He is just a sensationalist is all.

Simple sensationalist or not, he has undoubtedly contaminated the field, which is the word I should have used instead of 'control'.

Originally Posted by EYES WIDE OPEN

As I showed in my previous posts, space based weapons evidence is poor and the main pushers of this theory have no idea what they are talking about

I wouldn't go that far.

The people who argue the no-plane theory have excellent points.

I noticed John Lear and my friend Zorgon have already discussed this with you quite a while ago, and provided monumental evidence: http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...ead.php?t=3863

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Originally Posted by Majorion

Simple sensationalist or not, he has undoubtedly contaminated the field, which is the word I should have used instead of 'control'.



I wouldn't go that far.

The people who argue the no-plane theory have excellent points.

I noticed John Lear and my friend Zorgon have already discussed this with you quite a while ago, and provided monumental evidence: http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...ead.php?t=3863

Not THAT again!

Unfortunatly, John ran away when the going got tough. (read the whole thread if you want the whole strory) He also did EXACTLY the same thing on the open minds forums. When faced with difficult questions, he refuses to admit he does not have evidence to back up what he says. Indeed, I was the reason john left Avalon. see this post....
http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...4&postcount=54
But lets say no more about it. I dont want to rake up old graves and its obvious to all who read the thread which of us couldnt take the heat.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Originally Posted by Majorion

Simple sensationalist or not, he has undoubtedly contaminated the field, which is the word I should have used instead of 'control'.

How? You cant just say something like that and not qualify it.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Originally Posted by Majorion

Simple sensationalist or not, he has undoubtedly contaminated the field, which is the word I should have used instead of 'control'.

I wouldn't go that far.

The people who argue the no-plane theory have excellent points.

Please be clearer in your thinking. I was talking about spaced based weapons. Not "no planes." One thing at a time.

What do you think of the interviews I posted? It should be clear to all that take the time to watch it that Judy is talking herself in circles and has no real understanding of physics and cannot stick to one point or indeed, answer a simple question without constructing straw man arguments.

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by EYES WIDE OPEN

I prefer to concentrate on evidence that will get 9/11 re-opened.

I think that 9-11 truth advocates should focus on continuing the initiative of spreading the word that the official story can't be true and that it is clear that the attacks were staged to further the New World Order agenda, and not engage in a debate about what technology was used. It doesn't matter!!

What matters is that we the people not be fooled by a false flag attack, and that we reject all that has come out of that false flag attack. I'm talking about the Patriot Act, etc., etc., etc.

[Majorion]

Originally Posted by Seashore

spreading the word that the official story can't be true and that it is clear that the attacks were staged

The process of waking people up is more important.

I agree.

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by Majorion

The process of waking people up is more important.

I agree.

I would love it if we here on Avalon could focus like a laser beam on that objective.

There are guests reading this forum. Some of these guests may never have researched 9-11 truth.

With our posts, we can reach out. And we can do that with what we avoid saying as much as by what we say.

9-11 truth is so important! I think it behooves us all to try to help spread the word the best that each of us knows how to do...

[happyhollergal]

I found this video last night, not knowing that it was under the subject of 9/11. One guy plays several different characters, and if you can overlook the multi personality issue, he's got some great information. He even ties AIG, the former head of the Federal Reserve Bank, the Mena Arkansas drug deals, etc. to 9/11. Very interesting material.

<embed id=VideoPlayback src=http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=1981225573970187433&hl=en&f s=true style=width:400px;height:326px allowFullScreen=true allowScriptAccess=always type=application/x-shockwave-flash> </embed>

[happyhollergal]

Sorry, the link didn't work. Go to google videos and search for Who Killed John O'Neill.

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by happyhollergal

Sorry, the link didn't work. Go to google videos and search for Who Killed John O'Neill.

Here's another try. Hopefully this is the one you're talking about:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...ohn+o%27neill#

[happyhollergal]

Thank you so much Seashore! Yes, that's the one. I'm not good with posting links.

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by happyhollergal

Thank you so much Seashore! Yes, that's the one. I'm not good with posting links.

You're welcome!

Thanks for your participation.

I've been having trouble with links lately, too. I've noticed that strange things happen to my links later. If I go back to a previous post the link has changed. It's weird.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Originally Posted by Seashore

I think that 9-11 truth advocates should focus on continuing the initiative of spreading the word that the official story can't be true and that it is clear that the attacks were staged to further the New World Order agenda, and not engage in a debate about what technology was used. It doesn't matter!!

But it does matter. The devil is in the details. People want to know how it was done.
You wont convince anyone by just saying, "it was a false flag but you dont need to bother to look at the evidence, just take me at my word". You must present evidence. No plane theory and space based weapons theory can be refuted and are not provable 100%. What we DO have however is incontrivertibale evidence of explosives which we did not have 3 years ago. This has not been debunked and indeed is only getting stronger.
Show them the peer reviewed papers.

Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe
http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/co...001/7TOCPJ.SGM

Environmental anomalies at the World Trade Center: evidence for energetic materials
http://www.springerlink.com/content/f67q6272583h86n4/

This is hard science and is the best chance of convincing a skeptical mind.

Also read these 2 amazing articles on how explosives could have easily been put into the trade centers and how Nano-thermite related companies had office space in the towers...

Demolition access to the World Trade Center towers: Part one - Tenants
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?...90713033854249

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?...90813150853871
Demolition Access To The WTC Towers: Part Two - Security

[Kundaflower]

Hei,

I guess we in a phase called "ridiculed" still. Thats the hard price you have to
pay when you say anything against official "truth".

Think about it, how many people know that both world wars were started as false flag operations?
I mean all this is admit by our governments and are no more secrets and still there is a huge denial around it.

And list goes on...Vietnam war, uss liberty incidence in -67, bomb attack in 1986 in berlin that caused USA bombard to Libya, Irak, Afganistan.....

Start a war is very difficult without good reason because you have to get people behind you.
I would be extreamly suprised if any war would start without false flag operation.

Anyway, we have in Finland good truth movment what comes to terrorism
that governments practice.
You can visit the web- site and found lot of articles in English if your
Finnish isnt that good...

http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/

Piissiä ja rakkautta
KF

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by EYES WIDE OPEN

You wont convince anyone by just saying, "it was a false flag but you dont need to bother to look at the evidence, just take me at my word".

Of course not.

It just seems to me that the anomalies in the official story should be the focus rather than the theories of what the actual event was that took place.

I believe that the anomalies alone are enough for the vast majority of people. The only problem is that many people have not yet taken the time to consider them, or they have not yet been able to face the horror of it all.

Most people are not stimulated by a scientific puzzle to be solved.

Included in the box of a DVD that I purchased there was a card entitled "The Independent Thinker's 9/11 FACT SHEET." It says on the back of it "Order postcards at www.911WeKnow.com.

I'm just going to type this list:

1. No steel-framed building before or since 9/11 has ever collapsed due to fire.
2. No official agency (FAA, FBI, or the airlines) has ever released a list of the 9/11 passengers. But within hours, the FBI released a list of the alleged hijackers.
3. On September 11th, 2001 the FAA successfully grounded all aircraft - an unprecedented operation. Yet it could not successfully scramble any jet fighters that day - a normal procedure occurring over 100 times a year.
4. Building 7, a 47-story skyscraper and part of the World Trade Center complex, was not struck by a plane but collapsed in 6.5 seconds at 5:20 PM on September 11th, in the exact manner of a controlled demolition.
5. There was no visible airplane debris where Flight 93 supposedly crashed in Pennsylvania - only a smoking hole in the ground, much like a bomb crater.
6. Office fires burn at low temperatures of 600-800 dF. Steel melts at 2750 dF. Jet fuel is an ordinary hydrocarbon; its maximal burning temperature is 1200 dF in open air. Neither jet fuel not the burning contents of the buildings could have caused the towers' steel structure to buckle or fail.
7. Tests have shown that cell-phone calls cannot be made at altitudes over 4000 to 8000 feet, as cell towers are located on the ground. Commercial airlines fly at 30,000 feet and above. No passenger could have successfully placed a call for help by cell phone from an airborne plane on 9/11, as reported.
8. 9/11 was immediately declared an "act of war" by President Bush. The rubble from Ground Zero was carted away and the steel sold off without examination.
9. Enormous profits were made by insiders on plummeting stock prices of the two airlines involved in 9/11 - American and United. Federal law protects their identities.
10. Accepting victims' compensation barred 9/11 families from further discovery through litigation.