Be careful not to be gullible.

[100thmonkey]

Originally Posted by WarriorServant

I have noticed that many people believe that gullibility is a good thing. This does perplex me and make me wonder if I am in the twilight zone -- but what do you do? There is another thread on this subject which is winning acclaim and applause. However, I must insist that gullibility is not a virtue.
...
I guess others could argue the contrary (they are actually), but I do not see anything positive about being easily deceived or cheated -- especially when there is a remedy.

What's wrong with being deceived?
In terms of our eternal being, all will be made known eventually, whether in this life or another.

I don't think you've stated it yet, but your passion seems to be in saving people from some fate that awaits the deceived?
That if we just follow whatever sounds good, or 'fluffy' we may end up... where? ...Hell?
You being a KJV person I think that may be what you're saying?

I understand that. I used to be christian myself. I was raised in it from birth. I used to believe that daemons were waiting to deceive us at every turn - even in our own minds. I used to be wary of the 'New Age'. I used to believe in the 6 day Creation, the fall of Adam, the virgin birth, the resurrection, the second coming, hell, heaven, etc.

Have you ever wondered though? What's really wrong with being deceived?
Have you ever questioned, in terms of Eternity, why should somebody who is deceived, be punished for being deceived?
Is it their fault?
If someone really deserves punishment out of that situation why not punish the deceiver, not the innocently deceived?
You do understand that on some level, because you're here trying to awaken people from their 'deception' - otherwise you'd leave us to what we 'deserve'.

Yes, in nature deception rules, and will cost you.
If you don't see the Tiger in the long grass because it's camouflage deceives your eyes - you will be it's dinner.
No mercy.

If you believe in the 'super'-natural though, that we are eternal beings, and you believe in a God, doesn't he(/she) have greater depth than that?
Greater understanding, greater mercy?
When there is a supposedly loving merciful omnipotent being watching over all, how could anyone's eternal fate be left to such a merciless extreme?

So a 'daemon' has sought out an earnest truthseeker and set up some deception to draw them away from the 'truth', then their life expires before they realise the deception.
Do they deserve 'punishment'?
No explanation for why they must now suffer?
No second chance?

Your level of passion seems to imply that you think those who are gullible have such a fate awaiting them, and they are merrily skipping to their eternal doom.
I understand that if you believe that, such passion, compassion for us, is admirable - but isn't even that level of compassion greater than the god in the bible shows?

These are things most people on this forum have faced in their own way.
They may not accept the logic presented for such a thing as an eternal hell. Not because they are gullible, deceived by daemons, or seeking something more 'fluffy', but because such unnecessary punishment is repulsive to most civilised beings.

It's hard to worship a god who doesn't seem to show the same level of mercy and compassion that most humans demand even from themselves.
So they can't really believe in the bible god, or that his way of doing things is how things really are.

They aren't gullible, they aren't ignorant, they're just seeking a level of truth and justice that is higher than the version presented in the bible, or any other holy book.

If mere mortal me can think of a better system of eternal 'justice' than burning people in a lake of fire (reincarnation for example) then how can I accept any less from a supposed 'god' that I am then supposed to worship?

People aren't necessarily jumping on you for mentioning the word 'Jesus' or 'Bible'. They are more liekly jumping at a concept they have already processed and rejected.

A lot of people here know that the 3 day death and resurrection is really an allegory to the changing direction of the sun at the winter Solstice (Merry Christmas /Saturnalia /Sol Invictus) and thus the deception at the foundations of the gospel story.
So for them rejecting Jesus is actually part of trying not to be gullible themselves...

It's not necessarily personal against you in particular.
They may have experience with others who have been more stubborn (you have to admit there are some raving fundy bible thumpers out there) and maybe unfairly assume you are the same - but these are issues that cut to the core of what it means to be human - and most people don't like the humiliating way the bible depicts mankind - that he is the Potter and we are the clay, to be disposed of how he see's fit - or that man deserves eternal hellfire by default.
It's natural to be defensive against such degrading implications (it's the same tyranny we reject in human societies).

It's not rebelling against 'god', it's rebelling against the idea of unecessary harshness.
It's seeking what true god we know must exist, who doesn't demand such harshness.

You may think that's just seeking something more 'fluffy', but why not?

If you're not implying any horrible eternal fate then my apologies for going on so long, but when you mention the bible etc. that's what most people see being implied - and may naturally object to...

[WarriorServant]

Originally Posted by 100thmonkey

What's wrong with being deceived?

This is as far as I got before I decided I wouldn't respond to the rest. I did read it. Don't agree. That's all I have left to say.

[Shadowstalker]

Originally Posted by 100thmonkey

What's wrong with being deceived?
In terms of our eternal being, all will be made known eventually, whether in this life or another.

I don't think you've stated it yet, but your passion seems to be in saving people from some fate that awaits the deceived?
That if we just follow whatever sounds good, or 'fluffy' we may end up... where? ...Hell?
You being a KJV person I think that may be what you're saying?

I understand that. I used to be christian myself. I was raised in it from birth. I used to believe that daemons were waiting to deceive us at every turn - even in our own minds. I used to be wary of the 'New Age'. I used to believe in the 6 day Creation, the fall of Adam, the virgin birth, the resurrection, the second coming, hell, heaven, etc.

Have you ever wondered though? What's really wrong with being deceived?
Have you ever questioned, in terms of Eternity, why should somebody who is deceived, be punished for being deceived?
Is it their fault?
If someone really deserves punishment out of that situation why not punish the deceiver, not the innocently deceived?
You do understand that on some level, because you're here trying to awaken people from their 'deception' - otherwise you'd leave us to what we 'deserve'.

Yes, in nature deception rules, and will cost you.
If you don't see the Tiger in the long grass because it's camouflage deceives your eyes - you will be it's dinner.
No mercy.

If you believe in the 'super'-natural though, that we are eternal beings, and you believe in a God, doesn't he(/she) have greater depth than that?
Greater understanding, greater mercy?
When there is a supposedly loving merciful omnipotent being watching over all, how could anyone's eternal fate be left to such a merciless extreme?

So a 'daemon' has sought out an earnest truthseeker and set up some deception to draw them away from the 'truth', then their life expires before they realise the deception.
Do they deserve 'punishment'?
No explanation for why they must now suffer?
No second chance?

Your level of passion seems to imply that you think those who are gullible have such a fate awaiting them, and they are merrily skipping to their eternal doom.
I understand that if you believe that, such passion, compassion for us, is admirable - but isn't even that level of compassion greater than the god in the bible shows?

These are things most people on this forum have faced in their own way.
They may not accept the logic presented for such a thing as an eternal hell. Not because they are gullible, deceived by daemons, or seeking something more 'fluffy', but because such unnecessary punishment is repulsive to most civilised beings.

It's hard to worship a god who doesn't seem to show the same level of mercy and compassion that most humans demand even from themselves.
So they can't really believe in the bible god, or that his way of doing things is how things really are.

They aren't gullible, they aren't ignorant, they're just seeking a level of truth and justice that is higher than the version presented in the bible, or any other holy book.

If mere mortal me can think of a better system of eternal 'justice' than burning people in a lake of fire (reincarnation for example) then how can I accept any less from a supposed 'god' that I am then supposed to worship?

People aren't necessarily jumping on you for mentioning the word 'Jesus' or 'Bible'. They are more liekly jumping at a concept they have already processed and rejected.

A lot of people here know that the 3 day death and resurrection is really an allegory to the changing direction of the sun at the winter Solstice (Merry Christmas /Saturnalia /Sol Invictus) and thus the deception at the foundations of the gospel story.
So for them rejecting Jesus is actually part of trying not to be gullible themselves...

It's not necessarily personal against you in particular.
They may have experience with others who have been more stubborn (you have to admit there are some raving fundy bible thumpers out there) and maybe unfairly assume you are the same - but these are issues that cut to the core of what it means to be human - and most people don't like the humiliating way the bible depicts mankind - that he is the Potter and we are the clay, to be disposed of how he see's fit - or that man deserves eternal hellfire by default.
It's natural to be defensive against such degrading implications (it's the same tyranny we reject in human societies).

It's not rebelling against 'god', it's rebelling against the idea of unecessary harshness.
It's seeking what true god we know must exist, who doesn't demand such harshness.

You may think that's just seeking something more 'fluffy', but why not?

If you're not implying any horrible eternal fate then my apologies for going on so long, but when you mention the bible etc. that's what most people see being implied - and may naturally object to...

Dude everything you stated here is the reason why I stopped ministering and starting on a less judgmental path, i am BECOMING more lightened by the day, so if anyone is going to quote me then plz quote me correctly (LOL)

I love to learn and i am still learning and waiting upon relevant info to help me grow, you have posed all the statements I have known for many yrs now, I am glad i am not the only one who thought this.

Namaste-Matte

[WarriorServant]

I'm lost Shadowstalker. Do you have anything to contribute to the thread, concerning the original post?

[Shadowstalker]

Originally Posted by WarriorServant

I'm lost Shadowstalker. Do you have anything to contribute to the thread, concerning the original post?

I am aloud to respond to other folks unless someone changed the rules with out informing me, and not right now, no I don't have anything , but you could have had something to contribute other then being worried about my response to someone else, If i find another person to respond to, i will do that as well.. Please don't worry about me, I am just still going through the threads again.

And seeings how you said last night that you will take your time with what you have planned for this thread, i think I will do my best to communicate to others the best way I can, and relay my thoughts to them..

Namaste-Matte