Vegetarians or Vegans?

Aren't plants living creatures too? Or is it only OK to eat living organisms outside our biological classification?

[arcora]

I believe the body craves what it needs.

Suddenly I feel like having a pork chop.

[Phtha]

Originally Posted by historycircus

Aren't plants living creatures too? Or is it only OK to eat living organisms outside our biological classification?

It's known that the vast majority of plants live on a far lower plane of consciousness then even the most lowly animal.

Many fruits and vegetables are designed to be eaten. Just look at them and think about how they work and you'll see. I can't think of one animal
where the same can be said.

Then, it is OK to harvest for sustinance any living organism that has a lower level of conciousness than ourselves? That should present a real problem for those who believe extraterrestrials are doing the same thing to humans, and are horrified by it.

Just a thought.

Originally Posted by Phtha

It's known that the vast majority of plants live on a far lower plane of consciousness then even the most lowly animal.

Many fruits and vegetables are designed to be eaten. Just look at them and think about how they work and you'll see. I can't think of one animal
where the same can be said.

[Shellie]

"Life" doesn't spontaneously come from nowhere... it just gets passed along. Somewhere, something has to "give" in order for something else to "receive".

[izz]

Originally Posted by 99Boogies

"Life" doesn't spontaneously come from nowhere... it just gets passed along. Somewhere, something has to "give" in order for something else to "receive".

good point .. where are mankind giving ? specifically where are western mankind giving ?

[arcora]

At the risk of being labeled a provocoteur or a troll I have a viewpoint.

Karma is for all beings - including animals and perhaps vegetables.

Has anyone thought that perhaps an animal giving his life to feed and nurture a higher being creates good karma which will allow that animal to ascend to a higher state of conciousness? Perhaps when a higher being eats an animal and gives him the opportunity to ascend that also generates good karma for the individual.

I know this is out of vegan mainstream belief and again, I don't mean to disrupt or instigate. It is just a thought that I had.

[izz]

Originally Posted by arcora

At the risk of being labeled a provocoteur or a troll I have a viewpoint.

Karma is for all beings - including animals and perhaps vegetables.

Has anyone thought that perhaps an animal giving his life to feed and nurture a higher being creates good karma which will allow that animal to ascend to a higher state of conciousness? Perhaps when a higher being eats an animal and gives him the opportunity to ascend that also generates good karma for the individual.

I know this is out of vegan mainstream belief and again, I don't mean to disrupt or instigate. It is just a thought that I had.

i apologise for calling you saying you were ATS trolling that was wrong of me

[burgundia]

Originally Posted by arcora

At the risk of being labeled a provocoteur or a troll I have a viewpoint.

Karma is for all beings - including animals and perhaps vegetables.

Has anyone thought that perhaps an animal giving his life to feed and nurture a higher being creates good karma which will allow that animal to ascend to a higher state of conciousness? Perhaps when a higher being eats an animal and gives him the opportunity to ascend that also generates good karma for the individual.

I know this is out of vegan mainstream belief and again, I don't mean to disrupt or instigate. It is just a thought that I had.

I have always wanted to believe that, but the way we treat them or the way we kill them...They suffer so much.

[Phtha]

Originally Posted by historycircus

Then, it is OK to harvest for sustinance any living organism that has a lower level of conciousness than ourselves? That should present a real problem for those who believe extraterrestrials are doing the same thing to humans, and are horrified by it.

Just a thought.

The planes of human consciousness and above are in a whole new and separate category then that which is below it, ala elements, minerals, plants, and then animals. There exists a gradient though between the creatures and the planes. Meaning the highest mineral will be similar in awareness to the lowest plant, and the highest plant similar to lowest animal.

But going along with your question, to be truly benevolent we wouldn't even be able to exist. As every step we take would squish an atom which has a basic love/fear consciousness, or scientifically speaking, attract/repel. This is where common sense needs to come into play.

Edit:
Oops I meant to add that what is happening now to animals is PURE EVIL. They are being skinned alive and hung from hooks every single minute of every day. They are being burnt, electrocuted, and tortured in ways we all need to become aware of, because anyone with any sense of humanity would be sickened if they really knew what was happening in meat processing plants. We need to become aware so it will stop..

Watch this video meat eaters! It doesn't bite... or live in ignorance.
http://www.chooseveg.com/animal-cruelty.asp

[izz]

Originally Posted by Phtha

Edit:
Oops I meant to add that what is happening now to animals is PURE EVIL. They are being skinned alive and hung from hooks every single minute of every day. They are being burnt, electrocuted, and tortured in ways we all need to become aware of, because anyone with any sense of humanity would be sickened if they really knew what was happening in meat processing plants. We need to become aware so it will stop..

Watch this video meat eaters! It doesn't bite... or live in ignorance.
http://www.chooseveg.com/animal-cruelty.asp

i agree .. and when our consciouness rises collectively this wont happen .. advanced societies would never ever treat sentient beings like this ..

we as in mankind dont have a great track record in the way we treat each other either ..

[King Lear]

[izz]

yea yea same old same old .. there is ALWAYS someone like king lear who is an avid meat eater .. who then starts going on about vegetables YAWN ...

The good king's symbols are valid Jzz. We have a right to eat vegetables because they are a lower form of sentient life? I think the carrot men of garden planet 7 would argue with you.

[izz]

Originally Posted by historycircus

The good king's symbols are valid Jzz. We have a right to eat vegetables because they are a lower form of sentient life? I think the carrot men of garden planet 7 would argue with you.

haha my point is that it is always the people who care nothing for the killing of other life forms who make this point IMO .. they happily eat veal and pigs that have been kept in sheds their whole lives and killed in the most barbarious manner ..

then they always seem to make this inane point about vegetables ..

I do think trees and plants have life force ... lear made that post to mock not to inform which is why i am

[Carol]

Izz, from one perspective you are absolutely correct. To kill and to eat another animal is wrong from several spiritual perspectives.

Then there is the reality that if the body goes without meat in 7 years it loses the capacity to produce its own vitamin B. In fact, some bodies become anemic without meat and just do very poorly. Blood type O needs meat where another Blood type doesn't. Who is to say what is right here? We chose not to eat meat for spiritual reasons and then chose to eat meat again for medical reasons.

I did speak to a Buddhist about this once and there was a lovely story she told which referred to how the consciousness of that which was eaten was raised by the act of becoming one with person who needed food to live. That if not eaten, consciousness would stay at the same level. I wish I could remember the story to pass it on as it did help me personally come to terms with this delemma.

[King Lear]

Originally Posted by izz

haha my point is that it is always the people who care nothing for the killing of other life forms who make this point IMO .. they happily eat veal and pigs that have been kept in sheds their whole lives and killed in the most barbarious manner ..

then they always seem to make this inane point about vegetables ..

I do think trees and plants have life force ... lear made that post to mock not to inform which is why i am

"killed in barbarious manner"??
Do you know that there are strict rules/laws how to butcher an animal cruel-free?
Ever heard of that?
Indeed there are many countries in the world where humans have lesser rights and get abused much more than animals in the western world.

So stop wailing!
Go to Afghanistan and demonstrate there for animal rights, you will see what you earn.


I myself have in fact many veggies as personal friends, but that doesn't stop me to make fun of them.
In my opinion it is as stupid to exclude meat totally, as to exclude vegetables and fruits totally.

In my opinion that's unhealthy.

[izz]

Originally Posted by King Lear

"killed in barbarious manner"??
Do you know that there are strict rules/laws how to kill an animal cruel-free?
Ever heard of that?
Indeed there are many countries in the world where humans have lesser rights and get abused much more than animals in the western world.

So stop wailing!
Go to Afghanistan and demonstrate there for animal rights, you will see what you earn.


I myself have in fact many veggies as personal friends, but that doesn't stop me to make fun of them.
In my opinion it is as stupid to exclude meat totally, as to exclude vegetables and fruits totally.

In my opinion that's unhealthy.

[Phtha]

Originally Posted by King Lear

"killed in barbarious manner"??
Do you know that there are strict rules/laws how to butcher an animal cruel-free?
Ever heard of that?

Whether there really are such laws I don't know, but if you think they are being followed then you have proven your ignorance to the reality of meat processing plants, among other things, 110%.

Do you guys know that in one pack of ground beef there could be up to 1000 different cows... mmmmm!

Did you know that the FDA deems cows and other animals with cancer and other man made diseases safe for processing.... mmmmmm!

[izz]

check out ' meet your meat '

put that in your browser King Lear ..

and tell me that slaughter houses are not evil places full of pain, fear and terrible terrible acts of barbary

[Swanny]

Why do some people call themselves Vegetarians and then eat fish??
Can I be a Vegetarian that only eats chicken???

[Gnosis5]

I find it interesting that all vegan threads on all forums absolutely rage. I think both sides need to go and look within themselves for possible unconscious messages and "let go of it".

The funny thing is that in one of Hubby's session he had a lifetime where his military superiors implanted a whole digestive tract into him and his comrades who were assigned to a planet. It was meant to keep them busy in bodies and less able to spiritually develop themselves and thus lift up out of their bodies, thus out of the control of their superiors.

I am always a bit suspicious, therefore, of spiritual leaders and teachers who glorify the human body. Perhaps I have only seen the dark side and maybe there is a bright side to having a body. IMHO it is only "okay" if one does not let it prevent them from realizing themselves as a spiritual being.

[Metaphor]

Originally Posted by Swanny

Why do some people call themselves Vegetarians and then eat fish??
Can I be a Vegetarian that only eats chicken???

Swanny, bear with us whom have just found out that meat is wrong. The transition perhaps takes a little more time if you were once eating lots of meat (like i did)
Yes i do eat fish, and i say i am a vegetarian who include fish in my diet, as a way to avoid eating animals. My goal is not veganism but respect to everything i eat. Therefore lending some milk from an animal is not wrong per say. It is the way we harvest other living beings that is wrong.
We cannot criticise the aliens that harvest us if we do the same to animals IMO

[Swanny]

Originally Posted by Metaphor

Swanny, bear with us whom have just found out that meat is wrong. The transition perhaps takes a little more time if you were once eating lots of meat (like i did)
Yes i do eat fish, and i say i am a vegetarian who include fish in my diet, as a way to avoid eating animals. My goal is not veganism but respect to everything i eat. Therefore lending some milk from an animal is not wrong per say. It is the way we harvest other living beings that is wrong.
We cannot criticise the aliens that harvest us if we do the same to animals IMO

I dont think it's wrong to eat meat, I love it

[Gnosis5]

Originally Posted by Swanny

I dont think it's wrong to eat meat, I love it

Me, too, I'm one with that baby lamb. Eating is primitive by any standards, but did you know that reptilians eat to also absorb the spirit?!
Eating is a form of communication and being able to get into communication, although I don't promote it. At some point my eating compulsions will disappear entirely.