Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

YinYangMind · 01-12-2010, 02:42 PM

[SIZE="2"]Quote:
Originally Posted by petem
hi bill,
Your statements regarding Clif High hiring a "PI" to research Dr Bill has raised many an eyebrow among us Avalon veterans.

Thanks for this - this is one of a number of questions asked in this thread and on the one dedicated to discussing the issue.

The issue is sensitive, so I’ll just say this:

1) Kerry immediately invited Clif to her radio show so that he could discuss the issues with me and her. He declined.

2) My view remains firm that Clif High should not be investigating (and drawing conclusions from) Bill Deagle’s private finances with an intention to discredit him. And this IS his intention.

3) I was physically present in the room with Henry Deacon (Arthur Neumann) when he talked with Bill Deagle for 45 minutes in early December 2007, which included a fascinating exchange about classified projects, project locations, codewords and clearances. It was the first time they had spoken.

There was absolutely no doubt that the conversation was genuine and that Bill Deagle and Henry were both in the many places they stated they were. I'm personally convinced that (like Henry) Bill Deagle is well-intentioned, is a brave and principled man, and has told the truth as best as he knows it.

If Clif High has a different view, he has a right to that. But in my opinion Clif would be best advised to focus on his own prognostications and to respect data revealed by other whistleblowers without going out of his way to denigrate them publicly, digging up private financial information in order to try to do so.

Well, I'm not sure how the rest of those who have expressed interested in this topic will feel about Bill's response to this particular question from his thread, but for what it's worth, here's my observation...

1. Out of the several posts, comments, questions regarding Bill's initial pathetic response to Clif's open letter, Bill either has not seen the other posts/questions on his thread about it, or has completly ignored them and certainly hasn't seen the thread here...or maybe he has which may explain the response above.

2. Not sure when Kerry invited Clif on her radio show ('if' this is true, wouldn't it have made sense for Bill to make that known to those of us who have/were interested in seeing closure on this?) but Clif stated on his web site about two weeks ago that all interviews for January were canceled due to personal responsibilities which may explain why he declined...Clif is certainly not shy nor intimidated by Bill or Kerry and would, without a doubt, clearly articulate his position with which I'm sure Kerry would struggle with...wonder if Bill would have been on the show as well??? After all, it's Bill who has the issue here, not Kerry.

3. Is Bill suffering some memory loss? In his mini mea-culpa to Clif's open letter, he stated that he (Bill) was incorrect in stating that Clif had hired a PI to investigate Deagle and Clif clearly stated that he did not investigate Deagle's finances, yet Bill states in this response that Clif 'should not be investigating someones personal finances with the intention to discredit him...and that IS his intention!' Wow! Not only did Clif not do what Bill aledges, but makes another 'claim' of what Clif's intentions are without providing evidence or proof! Clif simply did what the rest of us have asked B&K to do with their 'whistleblowers'...

4. Here we go again...complete support without considering or addressing the well documented, public facts (some of which contain financial information without 'digging') of the many nefarious issues surrounding Deagle...there are none so blind as they who will not see!

5. Bill should take his own advice given to Clif in his last statement of the response...in fact, Clif does exactly what Bill suggests... 'focus on his own prognostications and to respect data revealed by other whistleblowers' and either supports quantifyable data (LaViolette, Geryl, etc.) or calls them out (Deagle, et al) when he finds supporting data/information/evidence...the only objective Clif ever expresses is facts and truth, not blind acceptance and loyalty.

This has pretty much sealed the loss of any trust and respect I've had for B&K, and I've promoted their work to many over the years. In fact, it has mostly been Bill who I thought had the best grasp and conduct throughout the interviews where Kerry just seemed to struggle, Bill picked up the pieces.

To all of the PA members who have taken the high road with 'can't we all get along, peace, love, brotherhood, personal space/place in time, spiritual growth in one's own time, higher this & that, back at ya and I wish you well. For me, the 'policitally correct, love your brother in spirit' perspective is just a little to wishy-washy when it comes to human discourse and interaction, in fact, the universe is both hard and soft in it's expression and manifestation and sometimes it takes you to the mat and it's time to get tough. I hope my statements and comments are taken for what they are...

'Always speak your mind and thoughts, those who matter won't mind and those who mind don't matter!'

Peace,
YinYangMind]

01-12-2010, 02:42 PM	#11
YinYangMind Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 30	Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations [SIZE="2"]Quote: Originally Posted by petem hi bill, Your statements regarding Clif High hiring a "PI" to research Dr Bill has raised many an eyebrow among us Avalon veterans. Thanks for this - this is one of a number of questions asked in this thread and on the one dedicated to discussing the issue. The issue is sensitive, so I’ll just say this: 1) Kerry immediately invited Clif to her radio show so that he could discuss the issues with me and her. He declined. 2) My view remains firm that Clif High should not be investigating (and drawing conclusions from) Bill Deagle’s private finances with an intention to discredit him. And this IS his intention. 3) I was physically present in the room with Henry Deacon (Arthur Neumann) when he talked with Bill Deagle for 45 minutes in early December 2007, which included a fascinating exchange about classified projects, project locations, codewords and clearances. It was the first time they had spoken. There was absolutely no doubt that the conversation was genuine and that Bill Deagle and Henry were both in the many places they stated they were. I'm personally convinced that (like Henry) Bill Deagle is well-intentioned, is a brave and principled man, and has told the truth as best as he knows it. If Clif High has a different view, he has a right to that. But in my opinion Clif would be best advised to focus on his own prognostications and to respect data revealed by other whistleblowers without going out of his way to denigrate them publicly, digging up private financial information in order to try to do so. Well, I'm not sure how the rest of those who have expressed interested in this topic will feel about Bill's response to this particular question from his thread, but for what it's worth, here's my observation... 1. Out of the several posts, comments, questions regarding Bill's initial pathetic response to Clif's open letter, Bill either has not seen the other posts/questions on his thread about it, or has completly ignored them and certainly hasn't seen the thread here...or maybe he has which may explain the response above. 2. Not sure when Kerry invited Clif on her radio show ('if' this is true, wouldn't it have made sense for Bill to make that known to those of us who have/were interested in seeing closure on this?) but Clif stated on his web site about two weeks ago that all interviews for January were canceled due to personal responsibilities which may explain why he declined...Clif is certainly not shy nor intimidated by Bill or Kerry and would, without a doubt, clearly articulate his position with which I'm sure Kerry would struggle with...wonder if Bill would have been on the show as well??? After all, it's Bill who has the issue here, not Kerry. 3. Is Bill suffering some memory loss? In his mini mea-culpa to Clif's open letter, he stated that he (Bill) was incorrect in stating that Clif had hired a PI to investigate Deagle and Clif clearly stated that he did not investigate Deagle's finances, yet Bill states in this response that Clif 'should not be investigating someones personal finances with the intention to discredit him...and that IS his intention!' Wow! Not only did Clif not do what Bill aledges, but makes another 'claim' of what Clif's intentions are without providing evidence or proof! Clif simply did what the rest of us have asked B&K to do with their 'whistleblowers'... 4. Here we go again...complete support without considering or addressing the well documented, public facts (some of which contain financial information without 'digging') of the many nefarious issues surrounding Deagle...there are none so blind as they who will not see! 5. Bill should take his own advice given to Clif in his last statement of the response...in fact, Clif does exactly what Bill suggests... 'focus on his own prognostications and to respect data revealed by other whistleblowers' and either supports quantifyable data (LaViolette, Geryl, etc.) or calls them out (Deagle, et al) when he finds supporting data/information/evidence...the only objective Clif ever expresses is facts and truth, not blind acceptance and loyalty. This has pretty much sealed the loss of any trust and respect I've had for B&K, and I've promoted their work to many over the years. In fact, it has mostly been Bill who I thought had the best grasp and conduct throughout the interviews where Kerry just seemed to struggle, Bill picked up the pieces. To all of the PA members who have taken the high road with 'can't we all get along, peace, love, brotherhood, personal space/place in time, spiritual growth in one's own time, higher this & that, back at ya and I wish you well. For me, the 'policitally correct, love your brother in spirit' perspective is just a little to wishy-washy when it comes to human discourse and interaction, in fact, the universe is both hard and soft in it's expression and manifestation and sometimes it takes you to the mat and it's time to get tough. I hope my statements and comments are taken for what they are... 'Always speak your mind and thoughts, those who matter won't mind and those who mind don't matter!' Peace, YinYangMind]