Melbourne/Victoria

[Aussie Babe]

Hello and Welcome Foilla!

You are in for a treat traveling around this wondrous land of ours.Enjoy!

Are there any more members centered around Central Vic? I feel like I am in this part of the world all alone.

Would be willing to link up with somebody /anybody to share ideas etc/

[fiolla]

Originally Posted by Aussie Babe

Hello and Welcome Foilla!

You are in for a treat traveling around this wondrous land of ours.Enjoy!

Are there any more members centered around Central Vic? I feel like I am in this part of the world all alone.

Would be willing to link up with somebody /anybody to share ideas etc/

thanks for your welcome aussie babe!You´re not alone as you see, there´s a lot of poeple around here! Very anxious to see your country and meet poeple over there, sideseeing Melbourne, hire a campervan and explore Victoria!

Hello fiolla,
Welcome to this thread of the Forum.
Also welcome to Australia when you get here.
As Aussie Babe has stated already, you will find Australia a very fascinating place, but you may have to go to the Northern Territory to find good places of aboriginal sites. There are not too many here in Victoria unfortunately.
I wish you a great time while visiting our country.
Take care.
Best regards,
John
DarkMatter

The Hurdles of Safe Space
I'm assuming that many of you are wondering what to do and how to go about finding a safe space to survive the possible calamities that may happen in the very near future. I ponder this every day, and without being too overly cynical, the options, unfortunately don't look too favorable.
Here are just some examples of the hurdles involved:

(1) The need for a plot of land and/or property of the ideal safe space location
Who amongst us could afford to purchase a plot of land and/or property??? I know I could never afford this, and I suspect most of you would be in the same boat. So what can we do???
We need to band together, form a committee and pool our resources. We would need to meet on a fairly regular basis to organize the best options for the survival of all members and their families.

(2) Where would be the IDEAL safe space location???
As sirdiablo69 has already pointed out: "l must say that although mt macedon ids convieniant so far as proximity its also extremely close to suburban melbourne, which unfortunately means that in time of food shortages etc there will be large numbers of melbournians seaching quick alternatives to residential melbournes lack of resorces therfore l believe mt macedon would in effect be to close to and subject to maraudinf elements that could nay would be very needy and most inhospitable with regards wanting/ taking from any reserves we may have of food liveststock etc".
He is 100% correct on this point. Unfortunately Mount Macedon is too close to a major population center. So where else???
Country Victoria would probably be the best alternative. Aussie Babe and her hubby seem to be in an ideal location. Population isn't too high. It may not be mountainous, but its probably far enough away and high enough above sea level to be a safe spot in case of tidal waves.
Someone has already suggested the Snowy Mountains. What about in and around the ski resorts: Falls Creek, Threadbo etc.???

(3) If you do have a safe space to go to, when do you move in???
If your retired and well off, then you could probably go now. But if you work for a living, you can't just move in and still be expected to go to work every day. Especially if the safe space is very far away.

All of the above questions need to be answered and alternatives nutted out. I've only given a couple of examples, there are heaps more questions that need to be resolved, but just one person cannot be expected to solve them on his or her own. We need to get our heads together and overcome these issues if we are to have a higher probability of survival when the s--t hits the fan.
Anyone who is interested in forming a committee to overcome the logistics of a safe space, then please let me know in this thread. BUT, you MUST be committed. No half arsed wanting to help. Its all or nothing. Sorry to be blunt, but possible lives could be at stake here.
Take care all and I look forward to your votes of confidence.
Best regards,
John
DarkMatter

P.S. If you have any comments, views or criticisms, then please post them here.

[fiolla]

Originally Posted by DarkMatter

Hello fiolla,
Welcome to this thread of the Forum.
Also welcome to Australia when you get here.
As Aussie Babe has stated already, you will find Australia a very fascinating place, but you may have to go to the Northern Territory to find good places of aboriginal sites. There are not too many here in Victoria unfortunately.
I wish you a great time while visiting our country.
Take care.
Best regards,
John
DarkMatter

thank you for the tip Dark Matter, but I think I will go to Geelong first to visit an aboriginal centre there(it sais in my guide).Since the whole of Australia used to be aboriginal country, I am sure that my special "antenna" will find some places where there is strong and good energy that we can use to survive!As you know the aboriginals were very good at surviving, we can learn o lot of them, that´s why I would like to see and feel their places......

[AussieG]

Forums are fine but face to face sets the pace, is anyone organizing a meeting in Melb. If so, where and when.

[sirdiablo69]

Gday all
l am going to post my email for two reasons the first is because l recieved an eamil claiming to be from this sites founders stating that the site is being closed down for various reasons and secondly l strongly suspect it no longer safe to state online much info so far as locations etc are concerned you can reach me at mschoen57@bigpond.com temporarily, a further word of warning that various govt interests tend to dictate that they plant there own operatives within various groups for the purpose of gathering intelligene and info that may bring down any threat percevied by their respective leaders, l hope all this serves as a suitable warning to all such as myself hoping to meet like minded individuals, as for meeting all or any interested in forming some melb group to discuss and consolidate on safe havens please feel to to make conatact via my email address provided ASAP as this opportunity is not indefinate

thank you for the tip Dark Matter, but I think I will go to Geelong first to visit an aboriginal centre there(it sais in my guide).Since the whole of Australia used to be aboriginal country, I am sure that my special "antenna" will find some places where there is strong and good energy that we can use to survive!As you know the aboriginals were very good at surviving, we can learn o lot of them, that´s why I would like to see and feel their places......

Your most welcome for the tip.
Hmm.. Sorry for my ignorance, but I never realized there was an Aboriginal center in Geelong. Hmm.. I guess you learn something every day...
You are 100% correct in regards to how well Aborigines can survive on very little. In fact they would make the best teachers, as would the native American Indians. Its something I never contemplated. Well done in your thinking, I take my hat off to you.
Take care and please let us know when you hit Melbourne.
Best regards,
John
DarkMatter

Forums are fine but face to face sets the pace, is anyone organizing a meeting in Melb. If so, where and when.

I agree AussieG.
I wouldn't mind organizing something after the Nexus Conference. Some time in the middle of October, perhaps a tad earlier or later. What are your thoughts people???
Where we meet is another issue, so I'm open to suggestions. I would like it so it isn't to far for Aussie Babe and her husband. And there are probably others that live far from Melbourne also. Would also be good to synchronize a time when fiolla is in Melbourne as well.
All suggestions are welcome. So lets get into discussing this issue people.
Take care all and I hope to hear the suggestions fly.
Best regards,
John
DarkMatter

@sirdiablo69
Thank you for your comments and insight. You make some extremely strong and valid points. These MUST be discussed and digested by all, he's not talking s--t, he's talking about reality.
I can also understand the urgency in regards to preparation, as George Green has already stated, we may just be too late. So I agree with the need to set things in motion yesterday.
Unfortunately we have to be realistic, proper preparation takes time. But I agree that we need to get together quickly and start the ball rolling. I was hoping to organize a meeting just after the Nexus Conference, as I would like to share with all on what will be said by the various speakers. Hopefully one or more of the speakers may provide a time frame of when the s--t may hit the fan. But if that is too far off, then what do you propose???
I'll leave it up to you all in regards to how soon things should happen.
Take care all.
Best regards,
John
DarkMatter

Many thanks to Aussie Babe and Tez for those links. I think they will be invaluable.
Both are survival Forums. I thought ours (Avalon) was the only one. Seems like I need to do more surfing and searching....
That GPS Australia will also be a bonus:
http://www.gpsaustralia.net/
Take care.
Best regards,
John
DarkMatter

[sirdiablo69]

Gday All,
l have noticed the tendancy of many to suggest a communal concept of sorts, suggesting the formulation of a singular group functioning somewhat independant of existing rural communities, l suggest working alternative, rather than attempt to create from scratch all that would neccesary for some sort of long term unique remote commuity l would instead recommend that we all seriously consider adopting as a place of refuge an existing community such as a small rural township to form the basis of our own subgroup, therebye eliminateing the enourmous logistics involved in creating all nessecary infrastructure needed to support even a small group of wayfarers such as our selves. therefore l strongly reccomend that rather than clear bush land and buliding suitable domesciles on top of the expenses required for food supplies farming equipment fencing for any livestock etc etc etc l reccomend that we seriously consider what properties, housing etc within small rural towns that we could for a minimal outlay rent lease, culitvate, in the more immediate future, that would free what capital we do have that we could then apply use for items such things as generators, maybe solar panels, as well as large reserves of vegetables and grains fruit trees, livestock for the long term picture, as well as many many other items such as various hand tools, saws hammers nails screws even down to things such as sewing needles, leather working tools, basically most items that dont require electricity, petrol or gas, so if we do survive upcoming events we have sufficent reserves of food clothing etc to last until our first or second crop, and are also able to perform repairs modifications as per required independant of most external resources that figurateively may not even still exist.

[sirdiablo69]

Gday,
as for how much time l believe god willing we might and l do mean might have until next january around the time of the next American Presidential inauguration to have at least one existing preplanned location which with to gather in the begining, keeping in mind that we will also need to have at least two more alternative sites that can function as plan B and plan C. Although we can reasonbly expect the equivalent resourses available at all sites we can at least choose those that have existing water supplies as well as suffiecent room and local laws that would allow us to legally make an encampment e.g some sort public campsite, of which numerous exist in various national forests etc easily locatable on victorian parks websites, sorry but l dont have the exact URL onhand, just google parks victoria to easily locate it

[sirdiablo69]

Gday All,
another reccommendation aside from us migrating like a bunch of gypsies or nomads would be the suggestion that perhaps two hopefully as many as three of us establish a home bases independantlly of each other from the nth west of Victoria to the nth east of victoria, therebye providing specific established homes/properties with a minimal land mass that would allow the other members establish their camp/caravan as per required need. if the group total was not excessive than even a regular house on a regular block would have suffiecent room for the existing member/s to reside as well as room for some tents/caravan/s also. Therebye in part eliminating the need in the short term for extensive establishment of a habitable enviroment that would be required in something like virgin forrest. I n fairness to all members l believe that we would need to establish as firmly as possible some minimum standard for group acceptance e'g members personal tent/caravan, as well as perhaps at least three months personal food food supplies and of course a general willingness to contribute to the workload that may prevail.

[sirdiablo69]

Gday All,
having said all that lve said with regards utilizing establish towns residences etc, l also reccommend that we all have a clearly well thought out and purchased emergency pack including good items such as good quality hiking boots sleeping bag back pack etc so we all if ,really neccesary can migrate on foot for some distance yet still survive for some period of time if our chosen locations become seriously compromised. P roviding of course that we have sufficent advanced warning, if that is at all possible.

[sirdiablo69]

Hi me again,
even if we are able to pull this self rescue attempt, with some sort of success. we will still be faced with our groups body politics. We will have to at some point need to address an almost equally devisive problem/s. Conflict resolution, what do we do and how do we do it. Sooner or later there will be some disaggreements among some of us, whether its about how much we eat or how much we do, maybe some of us cannot aggree on the next step we take maybe we cannot aggre on even the first step we take, Do we operate as a democracy with each having an equal vote in the decision making and if so do we have to unanimously aggree or simply a majority vote. Can we agree to disagree or do we have force others to concede to our own viewpoint. then if we can succeed as a group politically, how do we deal with issues pertaining sexual relations in their mirriad forms, what becomes exceptable and what doesnt. then what about religous beliefs or lack of, does that become a matter of choice, or are there certain prerequisites, do we politicise religous veiwpoints, then if so is it another issue we then vote on etc. aND IF L HAVENT ALREADY OPENED A HUGE CAN OF WORMS, how do we handle the issue of soviernty, for example if we are staying at the established home of one of the members as previously suggested for the purpose of convieniance of location does that person then have the right to dismiss a member from their property if they fail to reach some comprise resulting from some disaggreement, also do the individual members retain their sovienty over their possensions or do we adopt the principles of some tribal groups where the possesions that members bring to the group belong to the group and therefore may used by any member, alternatively do the individuals get to choose what among their possesions is stricly personal and what if any is for group use and then if any are for group use does the group maimtain possesion of said items when or if that person terminates their association with the group. I DID SAY I HAVE OPENED A CAN OF WORMS HUH

[sirdiablo69]

HI
so what do we do to resolve any disputes, for there will be some evetually be at the very least someone somewhere whom simply does not agree with an individual or even majoraty rule, also do we rewrite the rulebook eg current laws etc and if we do or dont who and how do we enforce them, how do we guarrentee everyone justice, not just how but also to the satisfaction of all concerned

[sirdiablo69]

Originally Posted by DarkMatter

@sirdiablo69
Thank you for your comments and insight. You make some extremely strong and valid points. These MUST be discussed and digested by all, he's not talking s--t, he's talking about reality.
I can also understand the urgency in regards to preparation, as George Green has already stated, we may just be too late. So I agree with the need to set things in motion yesterday.
Unfortunately we have to be realistic, proper preparation takes time. But I agree that we need to get together quickly and start the ball rolling. I was hoping to organize a meeting just after the Nexus Conference, as I would like to share with all on what will be said by the various speakers. Hopefully one or more of the speakers may provide a time frame of when the s--t may hit the fan. But if that is too far off, then what do you propose???
I'll leave it up to you all in regards to how soon things should happen.
Take care all.
Best regards,
John
DarkMatter

Gday
after all the comments l have already made l would just like to thank Dark Matter for his complementary evaluation regards one of my postings
Tankyou Dark Matter

[sirdiablo69]

Are we all just worried about a storm in a tea cup i wish it where so

[sirdiablo69]

hI
MOST OF MY COMMENTS SO FAR WOULD SUGGEST IM PRIMARILY A MATERIAL GUY WHOM IS LARGELY CONSUMED BY PRACTICAL ISSUES SO FOR THE BENEFIT OF OF ALL AND ANY I WISH TO SHARE SEVERAL MAJORS DREAMS VISIONS THAT IVE HAD THAT HAVE ENTAILED SOME PROPHETIC AND/OR DEEP IMPRESSION/S SOME WITH A REACURRING THEME NOT TO BE CONFUSED BY ANY JUNGIAN ANAOLGIES RATHER HAVING A MORE LITERAL DELINIATION PLEASE DONT READ THEM AND DECIDE THAT WE ARE DOOMED
FIRST ONE I WOULD LIKE TO SHARE FOR- THE ENTIRE WEEK PROR TO THE 9/11 EVENT IMMEDIATELLY UPON WAKING IN THE MORNING EVERY DAY IN THE WEEK PRIOR TO 9/11 L SAT ON MY BEDSIDE AND BENEATH ME IN A VISION L WITNESSED AS IS L WERE A GIANT LOOKING DOWN FROM ABOVE I BEHELD A CITY BUILDING SEEMINGLY IN MINATURE WHERE THERE WHERE NUMEROUS PEOPLE VISIBLE IN THE UPPERMOST FLOORS OF THE BUILDING AND FOR REASONS I COULD NOT WORK OUT SOME OF THEM WHERE TRYING TO ESCAPE THE BUILDING FROM THE TOP FLOORS BY USING A LENGTH OF ROPE THAT WAS SIMPLY FAR TOO SHORT EVERY MORNING FOR THAT WEEK L WOULD HAVE THE SAME VISION THE MOMENT I AWOKE YET EACH MORNING THEY WOULD PERFORM THE SAME RITUAL TRYING TO CORRECT THE PROBLEM OF HAVING TO SHORT A LENGTH OF ROPE TO ENABLE THEM TO LEAVE THE BUILDING FROM THE TOP FLOORS L DID NOT KNOW WHY THEY WHERE TRYING TO EXIT FROM THE TOP OF THE BUILDING EXTERNALLY ONE MAYBE TWO WERE HOPING TO CLIMB DOWN THE EXTERIOR OF THE BUILDING USING THE ROPE BUT IT SIMPLY WAS TWO SHORT AND ONLY REACHED SEVERAL FLOORS DOWN STILL A LONG WAY FROM THE GROUND TO BE EFFECTIVE YET THE FOLLOWING MORNING THE SAME EVENT OCCURED AND L BEGAN THINKING THE PERSON TRYING TO EXIT THE EXTERNALLY WITH THE ROPE KNEW AS DID SEVERAL OTHERSA LITTLE MORE ABOUT THEIR PLIGHT EACH DAY YET WHERE NOT ABLE TO IMPROVE UPON THE PREVIOUS DAYS FAILED ATTEMPTS L SIMPLY DID NOT KNOW WHAT TO MAKE OF THIS DAILY EVENT IT WAS UNIQUE TO ME BOTH IN ITS MINITURE PRESENTATION AS WELL AS ITS DAILY OCCURANCE THEN THE NIGHT IMMEADIATELLT PRIOR TO THE NEWS BROADCAST OF 9/11 L SAW MYSELF MOMENTARILY DRESSED IN A BLUE SHIRT AND DARK BLUE TROUSERS JUST AS SUDDENLY L FELT MY THROUGHT CUT WITH A CORRESPONDING POOL OF BLOOD AT MY FEET AN EXTREMELY VIVID AND GRAPHIC IMAGE/VISION EVEN FOR ME SO I FELT STRONGLY DRIVEN TO TELL MY DAUGHTER THAT VERY SOON AN EXTREME EVENT IS GOING TO OCCUR EVERYONE KNOWS THE REST

[sirdiablo69]

Ok
the next major dream occured whilst asleep say major because although i did not have any reocurance i awoke almost immediately and have reacalled it many times since often looking at various events in the media so i could calmly reasure myself the dream/prochecy had been forfilled by some event yet ive not been able to give myself that reassurance = now to share it the dream began as some mild yet siily event l was watering a moderately sized limblees tree l realize you will hint maybe its phallic symbology simaltaenously i began to reason my illogical behaviour in light of our current water restrictions also the location although only several kilometers from here was not my aboad allthough my actions would suggest it was l turned my body to face an easterly direction and there was only meters away the sembalance of rising sea waters as though the nearby river had flodded as continued to turn towards the norht l realized that worse floding was occuring there to the piont that the nearby land mass was in fact breaking away dues to the rising sea level yet l did not feel personally threatened by any of this in fact my thoughts where this would be a great opportunity do do some fishing virtually right at my front door the moment later i awoke , im aware of all the jungian/ freudian analogy regards the phallic symbology of the limblees tree and the oceans association with mother etc but what for me was significant was all the media hype presentaion of computer model predictations regards global warning and rising sea levels yet i knew this dream was not saying that to me rather it was the results of severe weather conditions excessive oceanic enchrochments of coastal a region yet evertime i saw local media reorts of severe floding n the east of the stae l would tell myself that was my prophetic dreams expresion yet i remained unconvinced of such due to the eccessiveness presented in the dream that was yet to model itself in the realworld it did not appear to be directlly resulting from a tsunami type of action but the extensiveness and the extreme effects where not immediatelly noticable such as severe land loss being eaten by the ocean was an abuntantly a local feature like i have stated this severe anomaly is yet to occur

[sirdiablo69]

OK
the next vision l would like to share is a combination of two signifcant changes to the enviroment in this country, Australia. that has no large land based wild predetors neither does it have any significant snowfall except among some sparse mountain ranges and then only seasonly. yet in spite of those current facts, not so long ago l had a persistent coupling of the two. Firstlly l saw vast snow cover with sparse outcrops of trees/vegetation, including the use of horseback as a means of transportation with the very real need to accomadate to the dangers of a unfamiliar landscape and a servere climatic change, if that was not enough, another unplanned for danger had managed to present itself, some irresponsible people had released from captivity numerous large wild cats, both lions and tigers had survived the early cataclisyms that had previously occured suffient numbers as to enble them to self perpetuate and become a real threat towards surviving humanity whom existed in in bleak new world of a real ice age
as for the occuring ice age mans role could be disputed. as for the big cats it was clear that several god dammed zoo keepers realizing the impeding doom occuring around them chose to free numerous exotic species that rightfully l believe should out of consideration for local man been destroyed, instead where provided with freedom by various zookeepers whom cared more for their animals potential survival than they did for what became of the remanants of humanity
The result being the human survivors of the iniatal climatic cataclysms also over time to contend with and sometimes defend against the big cats. although l must say those persons that had survived thus far had little empathy if any, for matters pertaining to the like of contemporary animal welfare persons/organisations, not that they abused their available domestic stock as such but they shared no remorse over any killing of these new players eg lions tigers

[sirdiablo69]

Hi
the most recent dream that captured my attention was a a brief, l was facing some local shop fronts that at a place and time of day that usually was abounding with people and commerce, yet in my vision it was not so all the shops were sealed shut, there were no people to be seen anywhere, the only forms of life evident in the places of retail trade that l could see where large numbers of stray dogs, seemingly the resukt of owners that could no longer feed them, and rather than responsably have them put down, large numbers of dogs where left of discarded whom in turn became the remaing signs of life in a location where their where no people to be seen. what woke me from this experience was seeing my own dog a german shepherd to my surprise all in rapid succession l saw my own dog there he place his paw on my chest just as quickly l awoke stunned by the combination of events ld just witnessed

[sirdiablo69]

last one for now.
about six months ago l guess l was asleep yet conscious of events as though a real life event, ld recently read some acticle pertending majors changes that could very well change ordainary peoples options, these changes where not climate changes not warfare yet happening in my local neighboorhood, l was nearby my local business disrtict comprising of various retail shops court house mall shopping centre etc yet not all was normal, l noticed that at an otherwise busy time for shoppers and retails store both, there were instead very few people to be seen and those that we their comprised of only a hand ful of men most in groups of three or so and very few of those too as well unusally so ther were no women to be seen at all, then in the middle of the day l was out of deperation for food i trying to break into a local sports gym to procure what l could in the form of protien supplements ld know them to have, please to paint a clearer picture l dont steal yet for reasons not quite clear to me in the dream their was very little food avaialble when usually the supermarkets have bountiful supplies as well as that for reasons not clear to me in the dream there was not only no food available in the shops but l also had no funds available to buy food either even if it was available, and my general impression was most people were in the same situation as me all of us unprepared for empty shelves at the supermarket as well as no money pay for anything that might be available that woke me with a real shock and drove home to me jsut how unprepaired l am and how vulnerable to any changes in the line of supply

[sirdiablo69]

RATIONS FOOD SOME SUGGESTED INEXPENSIVE OPTIONS PLUS
gday ok for those with severe budjetry restraints whom would rather eat than starve i offer for some affordable options before l do l must highlight the real possibilty yhat some of us may not be able to escape melb metro ahead of time that said l offer the following suggestions
the immediate and primary purchase you make is cheap large plastic vessels from the like of bunnings for water storage in your current residence do you maths for each person you require a minimum of 2 liters per day just for comsumption as well you are advise to allow up three months supply therfore for one person alone thats a minimum of 180 ltrs of water just fill them directlly from your domestic water outlet eg kitchen tap and store them prefferably out of direct sunlight you will also need to allow youself an additional 500mls per days minimum for the purpose of a cup bath that is in simplr terms a wash cloth that you soak and suds in a cup with soap and water over total body surface then rinse wash cloth in fresh cup of water then rinse of soapy body with same.
the reson for storing persnal water supply for emergency use in case there is a supply problem that doesnt get rectified due to potential anarchy and lose of current services
FOOD
really cheap and capable of sustaining life is oats raw plus tablespoon of honey with water to moisten, just as important you need aproximately 2ltrs of good quality virgin olive oil dosage approximately 1 tblespoon per day other you develop what they terms rabbits desease which can prove fatal
Add to the above approximatelly three large bootles of a mutlivitamin reccomend blackmores brand plus a three rather large bottles actually small tubes of vitamin c which effectivelly prevent any flu virus from turning into influenza or phneumonia to treat use a minimum 3000mg vit C ABD CONTINUE TO SELF DOss for atleast 1 week
ALSO purchase a good 6 to 7 garlic bulbs for garlic is a natural antibotic, also for successful treatment of MRSA which is that flesg eating virus that allready exisrs outside the hospital enviroment as noted by sydney doctors whom recently reported cases occuring in people who had not contact with any hospital MRSA is now the biggest killer of hospital patients in hospitals throughout england and cases increasing throughout the hospital systems in the developed world
FOOD again you also need to various seeds eg mung beans, alfalfa seeds, preferably about 30 kilos that you sprout simply by placeing a palmful in a glass jar with a fine mesh lid you can use womens stocking to make the make the mesh lid and secure it with a rubber band then twice a day you rinse the seeds in the glass jar with a snall quantity of water and leave in the windows sunlight to sprout sprouting seeds will provide you with en enournous ammount of quality living food that is high in nutrient value at a very low outlay
all the above will ensure you survival for the duration of your supplies
IMPORTANT VERY IMPORTANT DO NOT SHARE KNOWLEDGE OF YOUR SUPPLIES WITH ANYONE NOT YOUR NEIGHBOOR NOT YOUR VISITORS NOBODY AT ALL IF THE PROVERBIAL S** T HITS THE FAN YOU WILL BE KILLED FOR YOUR SUPPLIES
STARVATION MAKES PEOPLE DO THE MOST HORRIBLE THINGS BE WARNED