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Old 09-21-2008, 05:48 PM   #51
milk and honey
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Default Re: What was Jesus then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merkhava View Post
--- quoting milk and honey ---
"Jesus the 'Son of Man' became Jesus 'the Christ' (the Sun / Son of God) because he opened and surrendered to the inner light, called in the western scripture "Christos" and in the east, "Krishna" and "Buddha'"


I have considered the New Age interpretation that espouses the “Christ-consciousness” and for my own serious consideration, I have to reject it. I think you have it backwards. A son of man didn’t become a god, but rather, the Almighty God (the Logos) became the Son of Man.
You're right, the Logos became the Son of Man. Jesus fulfilled his spiritual potential by realising the Son of God within him and so can we. I called this process a "be-coming". The Logos created the material universe and billions of spiritual beings who incarnated and fell into a lower state of consciousness thus distorting the divine image. Jesus taught us how to BE-COME that which we already are by transcending the imperfect image through the healing presence of the Christ -- the true light within us.

He said... "Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect"

By the interior light, Jesus spiritually perfected himself and gave us the example of how we too can realise soul perfection. The divine image already IS within us because it is the pattern of our divine origin. THE LOGOS.

There will remain a warring in our members (as Paul wrote) until the soul's divine image is restored. The spirit can transmute and transform the soul if is realised as a personal interior presence.

So naturally we can't accomplish this transformation by 'behavior modification' alone. Christhood is a state of consciousness so we must uncover the same Christ spirit which animated Jesus and which enabled him to perform his works. He told us where we would find that spirit (within ourselves) and Paul admonished us to "Have that Mind in you which was in Christ Jesus". That of course is the 'Christ Mind' which resides right where Jesus said it does... "within you"

We're all extensions (in matter) of the Logos (in spirit) which is the Universal Christ individualised within each soul. As i said, essentially we cannot become something we are not already, it's just that we've distorted the Divine Soul Image (in which we were made by the "word") so now we must transform that image by the power of the Logos within. That is Jesus' message.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merkhava View Post
I defer to Apostle John, who was the last survivor of The Twelve, who wrote:

“In the beginning (before there was Time) was the Word (the Logos), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself. He was present originally with God. All things came into existence through Him; and without Him was not even one thing made that has come into being.
Your quote from the Book of John is taken virtually verbatim from the eastern Vedas which are aprox 5000 years old. In the original Vedic scripture the word BRAHMAN is used in place of the word GOD but they're both refering to GOD and saying the exact same things about the "word" in relation to God.

2 more things...

John wrote that everything is the issue of the Logos or 'word'. It is written elsewhere that Jesus was the "incarnation of the word" but Jesus taught us that so are we if we will realise our full potential as sons of God. He invited us to seek and find the indwelling Presence of the Logos right within us which he called the "kingdom of God".

We are ONE in Christ. We issue from the same Father with whom was the "word" in the beginning. That is what John is saying and so is Jesus in various ways. We are his brothers and sisters who all share the same christ-consciousness and the same spiritual origin as him. And since we all issue from the Logos (the "word") we can return to it if we follow in Jesus footsteps.

As i said, the opening sentences of the Book of John were virtually identical to the Vedic texts written ~5000 years ago. Where did he get them? Most likely Jesus taught John that verse from his own travels in the east during the ~ 17 years missing from the Bible. Jesus disappears from the bible commentary at the age of 12 at which time, according to buddhist texts, he travelled east and studied the ancient wisdom teachings, some of which appear in various religious texts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merkhava View Post
And the Word became flesh (incarnate) and tabernacled (pitched His tent of flesh awhile) among us; and we saw His majestic glory, such radiance as an only begotten Son receives from His Father, full of grace and truth.” (John 1:1-3, 14)
This quote speaks of Jesus and the Christ, both synonymous. Jesus taught us that we too are the "word made flesh". The "Word" is the 'Only Begotten Son' which is the Universal Christ-consciousness which is the "body of Christ" broken for All. A portion of the "broken body" of Christ is individualised within each person. Jesus called it the "kingdom of heaven" which is the interior Christ-consciousness. The radiance of the Christ Presence is within each of us and i am sure of it because i have seen it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merkhava View Post
The question is “What is Jesus?”

It is of utmost importance to us each individually to get the answer right, because it speaks to the heart of such matters as:

1) Where did I come from?
2) Why am I and why here?
3) What will become of me?
I believe the answers to these questions ^^^are found in the quotes both you and i highlighted and i've interpreted their meaning according to a broader reading of scripture and intuition.

In the following paragraphs i've taken liberty to bold my interpretation of your statements and bible quotes as i see them and i'll add a link for you to study also if you wish. I believe christendom has thoroughly misrepresented Jesus true teaching and has replaced it with a false doctrine that reduces salvation to a simplistic formula involving baptism and confession of an external savior figure. That was not Jesus' real message.

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Originally Posted by Merkhava View Post
So what is Jesus?

I accept as the truth that Yeshua HaMashiakh is the Almighty God in the flesh. I accept that the Resurrection did really happen and is a literal historical fact, and that that historical event provides a rational basis for me to have hope of eternal life as an immortal son of God.

Jesus taught that we are all "God" in the flesh but that we must realise our true nature and potential as he did".

I don't deny the resurrection, the crucifixion or the ascension. I simply point out that those milestones in Jesus own path of Christhood are symbolic of deeper spiritual truths that relate to the path of personal Christhood for each of us. That explains why some of the same symbols predate Jesus mission ~2000 yrs ago. They're symbolic of the personal path to God realisation we must all walk.

And I find comfort through all my frustrations and pains in this mortal life when I remember the Lord’s words when He promised:

“Do not let your hearts be distressed with fear by your troubles. You trust in God. Trust also in Me.

True. The Christ issues from the Father which is within each of us if we will seek and find it. Trust the interior presence of God. It is the "kingdom of heaven" within.

In My Father's house there are many mansions. If it were not so, I would have told you. I AM going away to prepare a place for you. And if I go away and make ready a place for you, I will without a doubt come back again and will take you to Myself, so that where I AM you may be also. And to the place where I AM going, you know the way.”

There are many levels of consciousness in God's being. The "place" (in consciousness) Jesus prepares is only accessible by entering the "kingdom" (the christ-consciousness) within us. It is a state of consciousness which will propell us into higher planes of God's being.

Jesus can be found right now in the "place prepared".... Right Within. He is ONE with the Univeral Christ Spirit and we will return to it and to him by following The Way which he taught. That Way is within, wherein all the love and intelligence of Christos guides, heals and transforms our whole being

Then Thomas said to Him,

“Lord, we don’t know where You are going, so how can we know the way?”

Yeshua said to him,

“I AM the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you had learned to recognize Me, you would also have learned to recognize My Father.”

This statement by Jesus is referring both to his person and to the Universal Christ within all because Jesus is ONE with ALL. The recognition and embrace of the indwelling christ-consciousness is the lifeline to the I AM (the Father). There are no external paths or fundamentalist formulas to the kingdom of heaven. It is within us.
See this link for much more on the subject : www.askrealjesus.com/
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Old 09-21-2008, 06:32 PM   #52
Jonah
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Default Re: What was Jesus then?

Please be careful Milk and Honey. I was only searching for information regarding the question.
We are not here to change anyones beliefs today. Regardless of intention.

I admire your resourceful memory, and am more than pleased that you posted your personal beliefs.

But please consider the ramifications of such information.

Thank you for your all you've done thus far.

Last edited by Jonah; 09-21-2008 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 09-21-2008, 07:07 PM   #53
milk and honey
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Default Re: What was Jesus then?

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Originally Posted by Vorian's Revenge View Post
Please be careful Milk and Honey. I was only searching for information regarding the question.
We are not here to change anyones beliefs today. Regardless of intention.

I admire your resourceful memory, and am more than pleased that you posted your personal beliefs.

But please consider the ramifications of such information.

Thank you for your all you've done thus far.
Not sure i'm reading you clearly VR.

Nobody has to change their beliefs on account of me. If i make assertions which do not agree with someone (who is already disagreeing with me) then they and anyone else is welcome to ignore what i've written or reply to me. You may have noticed that occasionally peoples views are 180 degrees apart. Asserting exactly what that dissagreement entails is not unhealthy and should not be discouraged in a truth seeker discussion forum.

You asked a few direct questions about Jesus at the beginning of this thread which presumably only an honest comparison of popular views can properly inform. It is very easy over several pages of posts to lose the conversation with it's similarities and contrasts. Personally i try to make them clear when my views dissagree with others.

In my view, the ramifications of a philosophical dissagreement are all positive if the discussion is calm, honest and provocative of replies which deal directly with the various contrasting assertions.

I think Merkhava is doing a fine job of holding his or her own, but just what, exactly, did you find offensive?

Last edited by milk and honey; 09-21-2008 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 09-21-2008, 07:40 PM   #54
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Of course I'm talking from a perspective of reincarnation, which not everybody accepts, especially since Jesus supposedly was against it according to the bible (although I've heard otherwise).
Reconciling Monotheistic and Easten knowledge.

I´ve got my own theory and there is a lively reincarnation vs. resurrection debate, there is also a reincarnation abuse theory which states since I am going to keep coming back, I can keep screwing up again and again.

Maybe God at one point decides there is no more chance at reincarnating (Armageddon), the tab is showed at everyone at the end.
There is where eternal hell and heaven is talked about in the Bible.
Again I don´t claim to be enlightened and have all the answers, I am still learning
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Old 09-21-2008, 08:12 PM   #55
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M&H,

I do not think anything was offensive at all. Just don't want this turning into something it is not (a place to disagree).
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Old 09-21-2008, 08:33 PM   #56
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Richard,
Good morning. If we are to succed, individually I mean. Will that be enough? Or must it be on a massive scale to make a difference? And for those who are able to free themselves from this dominance, once we return from the core, will it be in their world?
Hello.

My stance on this is that the next evolution will be based on a totally different paradigm. This implies a total individuation (as opposed to individualization, because of course this last term has a certain emotional charge)

There won't be a massive scale movement in that regard.

For instance, the next race won't absorb the previous, like the Indo-European race absorbed the Atlantean refugees.

Those who return from the core, as you say, will have morontiolized their consciousness, which means that in time they will be free to travel all axis of time and of space in all realms to do their work. But that is still yet a long time away.
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Old 09-22-2008, 04:54 AM   #57
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Jesus and Sin and Faith



I think the assertion that Yeshua left Israel and spent years living in India studying occultic mysticism is a relatively recent New Age invention that has no basis in fact. There is no evidence to support the notion. It is a modern contrivance invented to redefine the Person and Purpose of the Lord's work in making salvation possible to mankind.

Yeshau Himself said during the time of His earthly ministry, "I have come only to the lost sheep of Israel."

The ancient records from over 25,000 manuscripts and fragments support what we have today as the Bible. No other work on the Earth comes close in quantity or quality to that bulk. From the eyewitness testimonies and fragments dating close to the time of the events of Yeshua, what we have indicates that the Lord lived in Nazareth as a humble house builder until the time He began His public ministry. Had He traveled so far to a goyim pagan land to study what any typical religious Jewish person would brand a false religion, Yeshua would not have been considered just a poor carpenter's son and He would have not been allowed to conduct teaching in synagogue as He did in Nazareth and Capernaum before He expanded to the rest of Israel. (Of course, as a Jewish man I may have a perspective of the subtleties of Jewish thinking and culture that you may not have experience to appreciate.)

I think your assertion that Yeshua dabled into Hindu occultism for 17 years in India is unscholarly and can not be supported with evidence. Present your scholarly evidence if you have it.


----------------------------------------

I tried to make a strong case about the obligatory demand of the Law of God upon you and all other men. Our sin debt necessitates the redemptive work Yeshua did on the cross. As Yeshua said to the Pharisees,

"If you do not trust that I AM He, then you will die in your sins."

I know without a doubt if I spent just one day with you observing you around other people I could come up with a long list of sins for you of actions and words committed in direct violation of the Law of God. And anyone could do the same about me.

If you or anyone else would try to claim sinless perfection, I have no doubt I could expose that as a farce very quickly. The newspapers and journalists make a living doing that everyday to people all over the world, and the lawyers and courts making a living prosecuting lawbreakers everyday.

I think you tragically avoid dealing with the issue of sin. It is a legal issue of horrific significance. Sin is what will kill you, just as it did Adam HaRishon and as it has done to every other man since (excluding the Lord).

Whereas you assert Yeshua perfected Himself into godhood as if by some evolutionary effort He martialed from within Himself, I think the Apostles made clear in their testimonies: He was perfect from the beginning of His birth through to His death on the cross, and is glorified now with the same radiance He displayed when He momentarily transfigured in front of Peter, James and John.

Apostle Paul was emphatic in declaring,

"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever." (Hebrews 13:8)


------------------------------------

This question about "What is Jesus" is a very important issue, because if the Lamb of God is not innocent and perfect in regards to the Law, and if He is not something greater than the Universal Law itself, then His substitutionary death on our behalf has no legal merit to satisfy our own sin debts to the Law, nor has it sufficient value to overcome the destructiveness of our transgressions. And if there is no Resurrection, then we are all just dead men eventually. If that is our hopeless lot, then "why not eat drink and be merry, since tomorrow we die?"

If you or anyone would assume hubris to declare you have no sin debt, then I think that is tragic for you. When crimes are committed in the common human law, there is the justified expectation of responsibility, accountability and consequential retribution. We demand it because we all want justice when we are wronged. I think denying sin debt is about as delusional as a pedophile saying he has no accountability to the parents of a boy that he molested. God forbid if ever the child is your own and was victimized by a pedophile! How would you respond if a judge had contempt for the law and let the guilty criminal go free to molest again and again? What if such a pedophile were a priest and what if the leader of those priests closed his eyes to it? Wouldn't you be enraged at the injustice?

But how do you feel for your own injustice to God and to your neighbor for moments of selfishness and neglect to love them with grace and giving as mandated by the First and Second Greatest Commandments?

------------------------------------------

Because there is Justice in the Universe and there is Law in the Universe, then in my view, it is logical that there is also sin debt upon everyone who violates the Law.

Do you have a real appreciation for right and wrong, good and evil, righteousness and sinfulness? Is it all ammoral and relative to you? Can you keep the Law yourself? Can you honestly claim to be able to follow just the Ten Commandments perfectly for a year, or a month or even single a day? Have you ever seriously tried it? See how impossible it is!!

------------------------------------------


I also see that you are dismissive of the critical importance and absolute necessity of FAITH in the Lord. You even seem to think that faith is some sort of perversion or conspiracy against people. You seem to assert we must workout our own "next evolutionary leap", as I see New Agers prefer to call the idea of Salvation. You seem to think that Yeshua perfected Himself into the status of godhood, as if to proclaim that is something we must do ourselves by our own efforts and thoughts. You seem to boast that men must recreate themselves into something that ascends to the status of God Himself.

I say go ahead and try if you are so convinced of it.

You may as well try to swim from Los Angeles to Hong Kong. Who knows how far you may get than the next man who may join with you. But I think you will all nevertheless fail to get to your destination. Of course, I won't be so foolish as to try to swim across the Pacific, when I can board a ship or airplane that will take me across. And for my soul's sake, I will put my trust in the Lord - relying upon His work at the Cross and the Resurrection to carry me to my Home.

----------------------------------------------------------

So work your way to eternal life and save yourself by your own works if you trust so much in yourself. But let me remind you what Apostle Paul clearly said to that issue:

"For it is by grace that you are saved through faith. And this salvation is not of your own doing, but it is the gift of God; Not because of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesian 2:8-9)

Also I remind you of what the prophet Isaiah wrote concerning the intrinsic value of our good works and efforts:

"For we have all become like an unclean leper, and all our righteous deeds are like filthy infected rags; we all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, blow us away. And no one calls on Your name and awakens himself to take hold of You; for You have hidden Your face from us and have delivered us into the consuming power of our iniquities. Yet, O Lord, You are our Father; we are the clay, and You are our Potter, and we all are the work of Your hand." (Isaiah 64:6-8)

Had Yeshua never come and died on the cross, substituting His own death sentence for the one we each deserve, then we would all still be "delivered into the consuming power of our iniquities" as Isaiah wrote. Salvation is the work of the Lord, not by us. He is our Potter and we are but clay. Our only work in this is to rely upon what He did and trust He will apply His own shed blood to our account to wash us clean.

The Jewish people asked that simple question of the Lord:

They then said, "What are we to do, that we may work out what God requires?

Jesus replied, "This is the work that God asks of you: that you trust in the One Whom He has sent." (John 6:28-29)

Faith is about relying upon what Yeshua worked out on our behalf, exclusive of anything we may do to add to it. Baptism has no merit. Church membership has no merit. Eucharist has no merit. Tithing has no merit. All these extraneous rituals and practices and good works do nothing to save a man's soul.

Faith is the victory. Total trust and reliance upon what Yeshua did for us is what pleases God. Remember what Paul wrote to the Jews:

"But without faith it is impossible to please to Him. For whoever would come near to God must necessarily first believe that God exists and that secondly He is the rewarder of those who diligently search for Him." (Hebrews 11:6)

-------------------------------------------------


So... go ahead and try to workout your own salvation if you think you are up to it. Try to evolve yourself into a "homo neuvos" and become a New Age god if you think you can do it. You have free will given to you by God to make your choice. If you wish to work out your own salvation, you are given these mortal days to try and regain innocence and try to claim "not guilty".

I won't buy into that kind of delusion. I know what I am.

So as for me, I will put my trust in my risen Savior to wash my sins away, and I cry out "Dear God please be merciful to me a sinner." And I will hope for the victorious day when He defeats Death and the Grave for me, to raise my dead body out of the ground and present me before my Heavenly Father as one of His adopted immortal sons who has been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb who is my Lord - the Firstborn of the Resurrection.

Regards,
Merkhava

Last edited by Merkhava; 09-22-2008 at 09:56 AM.
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Old 09-22-2008, 09:08 AM   #58
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Merkhava, all of that is artificial.
Justice doesn't exist in nature, sin doesn't exist in nature. These are concepts invented by men.
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Old 09-22-2008, 09:51 AM   #59
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Merkhava, all of that is artificial.
Justice doesn't exist in nature, sin doesn't exist in nature. These are concepts invented by men.
I can understand such a conclusion if your view of the Universe is that there is no God and that invisible things can't exist in reality as transcendant independent forces outside the human condition.

If God is not a Person from which proceeds intelligence, will, emotion, creativity and all the other characteristics of personality, then yes, you could probably conclude that the entire realm is just a deterministic machine, and you are just the sum total of chemical reactions going through the motions.

If God is a conceptual creation of man - an opiate of the masses to keep them submitted to tyrants - then I can understand how you can conclude there is no such thing as justice, no sin, no love, no joy, no mercy, no law, no soul. We could even say there is no mind and no such thing as life. It is all just an illusion of chemicals and electrical pulses in our brains. We could say no human being is intrinsically valuable, life has no purpose, and there is no such thing as hope. It is all human contrivance.

In fact, if the conclusion is that there is no sin, we could go on and say we need no judges, no police to protect us, no prisons to hold lawbreakers. We need no law, since there is no such thing as right and wrong, or good and evil. We should just live and let live. If your neighbor chooses to live as he sees fit, just let him, even if it means he invades your home, steals your possessions, harms your family and kills you for trying to stop him from living his life the way he wants to.

No... I can't have such a view of the Universe. I have to consider there is purpose and meaning and order to it. There has to be an answer to WHY?

I'm a former nuclear engineer. I am very aware of how organized and intricately balanced matter and energy are at the nano-scale. My current work is all about design and fabrication at the angstrom level. I look at the patterns repeating upscale from the micro world into the macro world of the solar system and galaxies. It amazes me. I look at the power in there and the design in nature and I have to acknowledge their is a Master Architect and He possess a great mind and a wonderful eye for beauty. And there is so much to it beyond what my five senses can perceive or my mind can contemplate.

There is so much out there that exists whether or not you or I am aware of it. It's there whether or not we believe it. It's there regardless of our acknowledgement of it as being true. What is there and what is true is because it simply is.

And there is so much more that IS than we can even begin to dream there could be.

The eye has not seen, the ear has not heard, neither has even entered into the mind of man the things that God has prepared for those that love Him.

Regards,
Merkhava

Last edited by Merkhava; 09-22-2008 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 09-22-2008, 10:30 AM   #60
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As the Nazareen said, the only sin that won't be forgiven is the sin against the spirit.

What is god, really?

The belief or not in a god does not necessariy preclude recognition of the invisible.

Matter of fact, it is always a wonder how many people believe in god but refuse to even consider the reality of the invisible.
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Old 09-22-2008, 10:46 AM   #61
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To me, Jesus was just a human, like the rest of us.
His story is irrelevant and unnecessary.

We don't need to know about his life or his mission or his purpose or his beliefs or his origins.
We don't need to promote those to anybody else, because they don't need it either.
We don't need his teachings, because he didn't preach anything that hadn't already been taught, or that we couldn't realise for ourselves.
We don't need salvation, because there's no eternal hell to be saved from.
We don't need his payment, because there is no debt.
We don't need him to take our karma, because karma doesn't work that way.
We don't need to fear a judgement day, because there is no ultimate Judge, beside ourselves.

We only need to live our own life.
I couldnt have put it better myself...



I have read two interesting articles recently, one was titled 'Was Jesus a Pagan?', the other 'Was Jesus a Witch'...

He fit into either categories very nicely

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Old 09-22-2008, 04:12 PM   #62
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Richard,

Aren't those forces that do not wish to lose control, sinning against our spirits?
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Old 09-22-2008, 04:37 PM   #63
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These forces are the hierarchies behind what has been called the rebellion.

They obey laws that are dictated by the great force that made its movement away from the contemplative realm of light.

But if you look at it from the perspective of the hierarchies, that movement made it possible for intelligence, the fundamental energy of light, to infuse the realms that this movement created.

Sin against spirit, in a sense, is the opposition of the ego to the command of the new energy that wants to penetrate his territory to replace the command of the forces of domination who took charge from the so called rebellion and that are at the base of human psychology.

Man is afraid to lose. And because of that, he will lose.
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Old 09-22-2008, 04:42 PM   #64
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Merkhava, all of that is artificial.
Justice doesn't exist in nature, sin doesn't exist in nature. These are concepts invented by men.

Rules, my friend.. Rules exist in nature, and in people. By recognizing the rules, you get to understand what you should avoid..
For example, you don't see elephants growing in apple trees do you?
Or, if you live for death, then death awaits you. Live by the gun, die by the gun. Judge people, and you will be judged.
Justice and sin are no man made concepts, they are there, whether you like them or not. Because of your free will you choose to think its all man made. We all tend to think we are so smart and intelligent just because we've sent a rocket to the moon, yet we think we are apes where rules are jokes..
Either you follow the rules or you break them, but remember, you have the will to choose, so choose wisely.
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Old 10-08-2008, 04:15 AM   #65
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He was ,is,and always will be God Almighty.He was not an ascended master or avatar.And Christianity is not a religion,it is reality.If you study all the major religions in history you will see they all teach that man has to work his way into heaven.Not so with Christianity.He paid the price on Calvary's Cross.And the Illuminati has twisted the message with organized religion and esoteric philosophy.Furthermore,most people here are not Christians,so you know.Christ-Consciousness yes,biblical Christians,no.Study the messages of all these contactees with aliens or extradimensional entities or future humans coming back in time to help us,and you will find they all go out of their way to denigrate Jesus Christ as the only Saviour and Messiah of humanity.They teach about a paradigm shift in consciousness to culminate in 2012,and those that are not on the proper and positive vibrational wavelength must be helped along,moved out of the way or eliminated.This is all prophesied in Scripture along with the rest of the signs of the Last Days.And some of the human agents do not use the term new ager,but the tenets are identical,nonetheless.Guys like Jordan Maxwell,David Icke,and a few others downplay their contempt for Christianity when on Alex Jones or other shows.But you can read their material and it is all the same as David Wilcock,George Green,Miriam Delcado and the people interviewed by Bill and Kerry.And in those interviews you will hear snickers and derisive comments on Christianity,but not on any outlandish views espoused.But I find the information interesting,and as B and K says;if you don't like it here go somewhere else.It is their forum.I agree.Both are sincere in wanting to help people.Just take note that both believe in reincarnation[Heb.9:27 shoots that down] and Bill is a part of an offshoot branch of Scientology.Hubbard...the original founder was an OTO Satanist and sci-fi author that made that religion up based on Crowleyian philosophy.Again,the people here are nice.You might learn ways to prepare for hard times.But be careful.Very careful with the spiritual advice.
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Old 10-08-2008, 04:55 AM   #66
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Jesus to me was a revoultionary. Working on the sabbath, attacking the current politicans or administration as well as the rich, not physically of course. He wasnt some weak as* peace loving hippie liberal pussy cat who smiled at all times. He opposed those in power and stood up and spoke when others were afraid, but the main thing he got people to listen to him when he did this. Its hard to listen to people today bc most of them are full of bs. Especially those who oppose the powers at be. Another thing he never did was preach about christanity bc he was jewish. Yep all christians worship a Jewish Man. No one ever brings that up and another thing is he might be a fictional character made up to inspire people or to control people. Either way define him as you like as long as it helps you stay positive and help serve others instead of your ego.

Peace, Love, and War
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Old 10-08-2008, 05:19 AM   #67
Providence
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Default Re: What was Jesus then?

Richard T -

Can you tell me what books you have read or are reading? I have been on a quest since very young and have arrived at similar conclusions you have been discussing on this thread. I am always looking for good books about world religions and spirituality.

I am particularly interested in the Nag Hammadi texts, and specifically in the Secret Gospel of Thomas. I believe that the metaphorical speach attributed to Jesus was meant to offer something to each listener, dependant on the spirtual maturity and life path of the individual. One very powerful statement made in the Secret Gospel of Thomas which truly resonated with me is this:

"Let one who seeks not stop seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will be disturbed. When he is disturbed, he will be astonished and will rule over all". Fascinating, absolutely fascinating. What WAS he speaking of? Truly something much more than the physcial, yet, something still among us, even now, just out of reach.....another dimension

I read a fair amount of Elaine Pagels work and I have just purchased a book called The Third Jesus by Depak Chopra.

A note on Christianity... as others have said.. the parallels between Christianity and Mithraism are uncanny. And why shouldn't they be? Mithraism was one of the competing (and popular) belief systems when Christianity was in its infancy. The virgin birth was but one of the many cross-pollinating ideas between the two religions. All completely fascinating.
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Old 10-08-2008, 05:45 AM   #68
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Talking Re: What was Jesus then?

STOP TALKING ABOUT ME LIKE I'M NOT HERE TO READ YOUR COMMENTS!!!!



Don't make me come over there!!!

Love, Compassion & Forgiveness...why is that so difficult with you people?!?!?
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:47 AM   #69
Ashatav
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Default Re: What was Jesus then?

Pardon but...

This is what the spiritually iliterated luciferian wanna-bes think and preaches:


-The no-existence or existence with little importance of Jehoshua (that's a important topic because if they tries to eliminate this figure from the history is for something, it not for nothing, in fact you can listen to this John Todd audio to know more about the topic or look at the Teilhard de Chardin's -jesuit- New Age scam)

(in any case, you know the spiritual bases of UN are Teilhard and Alice A Bailey, a satanist, just look out at the publishers of her books, Lucis Trust, before called Lucifer trust! and that's Real!)

-The divinity of the human being with out GOD (or just in the place of GOD, lucifer).

-The rules are made by the subjet alone. (this shows they low level of spiritual development hoho)

-We all gonna be One and mold with the Oness instead of individual development and individual grace. (this is popular now but is luciferic)

-Long live to Isis Horus and Seth and all they alternative names (a long list, Mary, Moon, Semiramis as isis, etc. etc. etc.).

-We will re-build Babylonia.

-The pope is the vicar or christ (in place of christ, that's because the bended cross, you know that?), actually the pope is like a representant of a luciferic religion. The one is at top of every other religion, pseudoreligion, central banks, illuminatis, etc.

-You are cattle, muahaha!

-etc.

So, if you find something with these topics in a ideology, trash it!

Cheers!
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Old 10-08-2008, 07:59 AM   #70
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I am a subscriber to the composite character theory for various reasons although I do entertain the idea of a man who did teachings that was replaced by this composite character.

I really like how some of the hermetical orders of Gnostic orthodoxy describes Jesus.

The soul of Jesus is the very same soul as Adam, Noah, Moses and just about every other savior figure in the Old Testament that I can’t remember

After the fall of Adam (Jesus’ first incarnation), Adam had to keep coming back over and over as a salvation figure to man, to set things into motion that would lead to his return as the son of man, Jesus, so the connection between God and Man could be repaired.

Since Adam broke the relationship between God and man, he was set to correct it again by using baptism as a means to re-connect man with God. The crucifixion (the final penance of Adam) and resurrection were intended to allow the flow of Gods full power to once again enter mankind.

Once a person is baptized with water, then he is then connected to the holy spirit. Once baptized by fire he is then able to baptize others by water or fire and has full god connection and was able to do miracles. Thus the Saints occurred. Once Jesus returns, this second coming, he will then be able to connect to everyone who has had either baptism and raise them up via something very similar to ascension like properties.

This is the significance of the baptism which is an act of repentance, then you get your god connection aka. the holy spirit and you are good to go for Jesus to do his mojo on you during his second coming.

When you look at an orthodox cross that is associated with most Gnostic orders, the very bottom of the cross shows either a skull or some bones and sometimes just burial symbology. This is the skull, bones, burial symbols of Adam.

Again this was in the 70s and I am no longer of any denomination nor Christian at all but I have always liked this analogy and it rang true for me, and still does even. Even if these are simply archetypes I think there is significance there. It just makes sense that the guy who screwed it all up for the rest of us, comes back and has to go through lifetimes of solving the issue over and again, until finally he can come back and “die for man’s sins”

So I guess I would say, in the spirit of this thread, that Jesus is the redemption of Adam and man as a whole from original sin.

On a side note: study every religion you can, and then compare them all; wisdom awaits

peace
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Old 10-08-2008, 12:44 PM   #71
Richard T
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Default Re: What was Jesus then?

Hello Providence.

I don't really read much at all.

But there are interesting things out there, so I am not suggesting people should not be reading.

You know Krishnamurti? A rare man of rare intelligence.
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Old 10-08-2008, 03:30 PM   #72
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http://www.chesmayne.info

XP - Christ - Monogram......

03 24th letter of the English alphabet - symbol for an unknown quantity or a variable - a term often used to designate a person, thing, agency, factor, or the like, whose true name is unknown or withheld.

04 The Roman numeral for 10 - Christ - Christian (form of Greek letter ‘chi’, first letter of ‘Christos’.

02 The Christian monogram made from the first two letters of the Greek word for CHrist - Greek: ‘chi’ and ‘rho’ (CH). KI. The anointed KI, ‘royal son of David’. The Gospels are collections of fragments of memories, recollections and reminiscences, with the writers being more collectors than biographers. Almost nothing is said of his boyhood. He seems to have had brothers and a sister. He had a genius for telling parables and knew the scriptures thoroughly (the teaching method in the synagogues was in the form of questions). He probably had an unusual way of speaking - in the sense of the way his words were actually spoken and noted for his repartee (turning the tables - French: jeu parti: question and answer poem or contest).

Like a chess player he could see the significance in everything (depth of perception). A particular quality emanates from Him, the attribute of KIs, charisma. His emphasis is on God’s passionate interest in the individual human personality - an idea both rich and new in a discordant world where a poor person is only a mp in a game s/he can not control. Messiah: from a Hebrew word meaning ‘anointed.’ In Greek it is rendered ‘Christ’. In Jewish expectation the Messiah would be God’s instrument (not a divine figure) in ushering in his Kingdom.

Very little is known for certain about the man that profoundly changed the lives of billions of people over the past twenty centuries. An outstanding prophetic-charismatic healer, preacher and moralist, seeing straight into the innermost religious significance of Jewish laws and beliefs. His travels exposed him to a wide variety of cultures and doctrines. JX (Jesus Christ). The two letters are usually surrounded by a circle giving the impression of a wheel (cosmic and solar symbol). A and W are sometimes added (Alpha and Omega). No writings appear in His own hand! The Gospels tell the story and teachings of his earthly sojourn.

03 Matthew: presents four portraits: Christ the KI, the servant, the man and the Son of God, his deity and humanity. Papias, the BS of Hierapolis, in 130 AD said that Matthew composed the oracles in the Hebrew tongue and everyone translated them as he was able. In this document he tries to convince the Jews that Christ is their KI and Messiah (2:2). Matthew focuses on the kingship of Christ.

The KIs herald (John the Baptist) prepared the way for Christ’s coming. Christ preaches ‘the good news of the kingdom’, proving his kingly power by miraculous signs. The famous ‘Sermon on the Mount’ reminds one of the ‘royal law of love’. “We have grasped the mystery of the atom and rejected the Sermon on the Mount”. Christ taught not only by words but by signs. He expects His subjects to have high standards. It covers the Annunciation, the Visitation, the Shepherds, Jesus in the Temple, Martha and Mary, the Woman who was a sinner, the Good Samaritan, the Rich Fool, the Lost Sheep, the Prodigal Son, the Penitent Thief, the Journey to Emmaeus, the Ascension, Sermon on the Mount, the Widows son and the Passion etc. Luke tells of the Annunciation, the birth of Jesus, the visit of the shepherds and the choirs of angels. When Luke told the story of Gabriel greeting Mary with the news that she was to be the mother of the promised Messiah, Mary shrank from this message in awe and amazement.

04 Mark: vivid attention to detail. Of interest is Christ’s limited knowledge about the end (13:32). He is welcomed by the herald (1:1-8). He would extend the knowledge of God to ‘the ends of the earth’ (49:5-6). Christ tells his men that he must die. At the end of this book Christ is at the right hand of God, victorious, vindicated and enthroned.

05 Luke: Perception (about John, 7:18-23, and those who opposed him). The one greater than the great KI Solomon and Jonah the prophet (11:29-32).

06 John: composed a spiritual book. There is much mention of Babylon, which probably referred to Imperial Rome in the time of Nero. The religion of Rome was emperor worship and an attempt was made to wipe Christians off the face of the earth just as Hitler tried to wipe out the Jewish race. Figurative language is used and much of this is obscure in its meaning to some. It is not a mystical or magical book from which the end of the world can be calculated. Many attempts have been made to find a cryptographic clue, which will reveal the time of the end of the present age and the 2nd coming of Christ. Rome was destroyed just like ancient Babylon. It contains seven visions.

07 Legend credits Joseph of Arimathea with bringing his young nephew, Jesus, to Britain in the course of one of his many trade visits in search of Cornish tin. All the legends concerning Christ’s connections with Britain revolve around His youth and death. The main relics of the Crucifixion were said to have been brought to Glastonbury and hence its associations with the Grail. Joseph of Arimathea: traditionally, the uncle of Christ.

Imprisoned by the Romans, he was visited by the Risen Christ and entrusted with the secrets and guardianship of the Grail. He settled in Glastonbury and built the first Christian church of wattle. He planted his staff on Wearyall Hill where it burst into flower. It flowers at Christmas and is sent as a tribute to the QU of England each year. “If Jesus Christ were to come to-day, people would not even crucify him. They would ask him to dinner, and hear what he had to say, and make fun of it” (D.A. Wilson ‘Carlyle at his Zenith , 1927).

08 Latin: ‘Agnus Dei’, ‘Lamb of God.’ Title of Jesus. The figure of a lamb bearing a cross or flag, the symbol of Christ. Angus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi (Lamb of God, that takest away the sins of the world) - also part of the Gloria in the English Communion service. The cake of wax or dough bearing this imprint. The pelican and unicorn are also symbols of Christ. Anno Domini, ‘In the Year of our Lord’. This dating system was first used by a monk by the name of Dionysius Exignuus (6th century).

10 Micah 5:2: “Out of you shall He come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from old, from everlasting”. Buddhists anticipate the coming of Maitreya. The Jews seek the Messiah. Christians look forward to the 2nd Coming. The Judeo-Christian tradition is a tradition of the word. Mantra: is the power of a word to call into being a reality.

For some the word ‘Jesus’ is a mantra, a quickener of the consciousness and a means of entering the holy of holies within. Jesus gained mastery over the dimensions of our present consciousness and over time and space, which are no longer limitations to His manifestation. He may manifest anywhere, anytime. The term ‘Master’ is often used in reference to Jesus. Edgar Cayce has said that he appeared as Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph, Joshua, Jeshua and finally as Jesus.

11 Almond: that which is hidden behind the surface. His human nature hides His divine nature (protected hidden kernel). Patience, (since you have to extract the kernel from the shell). Seed of Zeus.

12 Encolpion: ‘worn on the breast’ (Greek). Capsule worn on the breast containing the monogram XP, Bible verses etc. Medallion.

13 Animal symbolism: He became as a man by being born, died like a sacrificial bull, and rose to heaven like an eagle.

14 IHS or JHS: Jesus (Greek).

Christ Consciousness - Grid - Plato planet consciousness - grid

The concept of the planetary grid is not new. Plato spoke about this in his work Timaeus as “The ideal body of cosmos” and explains the grid as the synthesis of the platonic solids. The grid that covered the earth was formed of the five platonic solids, as emanation of creation. Plato believed that the basic structure of the earth was in a process of evolution from simple geometric forms to other more complex forms. In the order of complexity, the five patterns that formed the blocks of the crystalline matrix are: The Tetrahedron, the Hexahedron or cube, the Octahedron, the Dodecahedron and the Icosahedrons.

The platonic solids are the only existing shapes whose vertexes perfectly match the inside surface of a sphere. These shapes were considered holy by many cultures. The platonic solids were considered the building blocks of the universe in sacred geometry science.

Christ Consciousness pendant

The Christ Consciousness pendant is made from a combination of 2 platonic solid shapes - the dodecahedron (12 five sided facets) and the icosahedrons (20 triangles). The structure of the Christ Consciousness pendant creates the third level consciousness grid of the human race, which is an electro magnetic field that surrounds planet earth and unites the human consciousness.

The Jerusalem 2001 bombing and the Christ consciousness experiment

In 2001, there were many bombings in a specific area of Jerusalem. One day someone arrived to David to view his work. When he saw the Christ consciousness pendant, he was very much attached. He felt it had great harmonious powers. He suggested to David to experiment and spread 30 of these pendants all over Jerusalem. The bombing stopped the same day!

Drunvalo Melchizadek - collective human consciousness

The idea of collective human consciousness is wide spread these days, and is underlying principles related to chromosomes and Jungian theory. Some of the ideas behind this are based on the teachings of Drunvalo Melchizadek.

Here’s a snip of an interview with him (Leading Edge, 12/95): “There are three totally different kinds of humans on the Earth, meaning that they perceive the one reality in three different ways, interpreted differently. The first kind of human has a chromosome composition of 42+2. They comprise a unity consciousness that does not see anything outside them as being separate from them. To them, there is only one energy - one life, one being ness that moves everywhere. Anything happening anywhere is within them, as well. They are like cells in the body. They are all connected to a single consciousness that moves through all of them. These are the aboriginals in Australia. There might be a few African tribes left like this. Then, there is our level, comprising 44+2 chromosomes. We are at a disharmonic level of consciousness that is used as a stepping stone from the 42+2 level to the next level, 46+2. These two additional chromosomes change everything”.

According to Drunvalo, the grid of the third level was destroyed 13,000 years ago. The Grid was reconstructed by the hidden sects of the ascended Atlantean masters, a process that came to its end in 1989. In the Olympic Games that took place in Sidney, Australia, during the closing ceremony the whole stage came out of the ground and took the shape of a huge dodecahedron, with all the different competitors from the different nations standing around it with the aboriginals as well!

The Grid is the Akashic library of this planet. It also allows us to know future events. And that is the reason so many Channelers have appeared since 1989.

72 names for god - 72 facets for the Christ Consciousness

In the Jewish tradition there are the 72 sacred names of God. By taking the middle sentence of the holy Torah and dividing it to thirds you’ll end up with 72 names which are constructed of three letters. Some of these names are similar to the definitions or names of the One God throughout the different cultures (such as Aum in Buddhism). Since God has no name or definition there has to be another explanation for this phenomenon. If you take a look at the shape of this pendant which represents the united consciousness of humanity, the Christ Consciousness Grid, you’ll discover that it is made out of 72 facets.
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Old 10-08-2008, 05:41 PM   #73
atlantianferret
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Default Re: What was Jesus then?

This thread is funny.

So easily divided. Their work is done here.

Last edited by atlantianferret; 10-09-2008 at 12:45 AM.
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Old 10-09-2008, 06:29 AM   #74
Ashatav
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Default Re: What was Jesus then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by atlantianferret View Post
This thread is funny.

So easily divided. Their work is done here.
Amen to that!

But in fact the people here are the same who are attacking (luciferiacly muahohoo) to Jehoshua and defending Him in the last and erased thread about it because it doesn't belong to Avalon Project hahahaha

So, long live to off-topic hahahaha, the house of anything haha

cheers!

Last edited by Ashatav; 10-09-2008 at 07:06 AM.
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Old 10-09-2008, 10:55 AM   #75
Richard T
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Default Re: What was Jesus then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Providence View Post

One very powerful statement made in the Secret Gospel of Thomas which truly resonated with me is this:

"Let one who seeks not stop seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will be disturbed. When he is disturbed, he will be astonished and will rule over all". Fascinating, absolutely fascinating. What WAS he speaking of? Truly something much more than the physcial, yet, something still among us, even now, just out of reach.....another dimension

I read a fair amount of Elaine Pagels work and I have just purchased a book called The Third Jesus by Depak Chopra.

A note on Christianity... as others have said.. the parallels between Christianity and Mithraism are uncanny. And why shouldn't they be? Mithraism was one of the competing (and popular) belief systems when Christianity was in its infancy. The virgin birth was but one of the many cross-pollinating ideas between the two religions. All completely fascinating.
He will be disturbed because he will realize that everything he had based his evaluation of reality will dissipate, because he will meet himself at the other hand of the tunnel and realize that who he meets is more real than who he was. His beliefs will be annihilated. He will be astonished because he will find reality to be greater than what he could have imagined, because he will have access to the mysteries, to everything that was hidden, and he will rule because it is through him that what he will have found will rule. All will be ruled, even the hierarchies who work under the laws of domination and who used those laws to render humanity insignificant, limiting it to beliefs and refusing it the right to know.

All churches, all religions have recuperated the coming of the Nazareen, of the avatar of Pisces, to bend his words to their own advantage and power. All religions have been used within a sphere of comprehension that was limited to beliefs. None have ever really explained, none have ever really unveiled what was behind the words. The words were used as shields against the spirit they carried.

So that today, those who believe are left with a caricature that they try and imitate.

The problem is that people don't read by vibration. They study the form and the vibration is replaced with the cultural value of the words, which of course is different according to the diverse transcriptions and translations, to languages that were created within the limited scope of experimental consciousness based on ignorance and manufactured concepts that in turn were used to steer the destiny of nations at the expense of the individuals. So, the spirit of the letter was lost and today people adore the letter as an icon.
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