What was Jesus then?

100thmonkey · 10-12-2008, 08:09 PM

Jesus is the Anti-Christ.

His story was concocted to lead people away from the truth within themselves, so that they look to some external saviour.
It's based on fear of hellfire.

It's their same old problem-reaction-solution situation.
Create a problem: 'Original sin, defaulting to hell'. Get the reaction, 'Fear of going there'. Provide the solution: "Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's"...

The Roman Empire knew it couldn't maintain control by military force indefinitely, so it turned to psychological means - the people will control themselves if we can get them to believe they are being watched all the time by a being who knows even their thoughts, and with their eternal fate on the line...
The ultimate fear base.

So the Roman Empire became the Roman Church, the Emperor became the Pope, the elites stayed on as priests, and so the bloodlines continued in power, with all countries loyal to the Pope, despite their borders and governments, etc...

...at least, that was the intention, until the gnostics and the secret societies started to grow and upset the power balance.

So the Catholic church created the illuminati to infiltrate and take over the growing threats, offering 'higher mysteries', etc. Who could resist?
That's why the Illuminati follow the same christian paradigm...
and that's why christians think they're beliefs are verified by them...

Mystica · 10-12-2008, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 100thmonkey

His story was concocted to lead people away from the truth within themselves, so that they look to some external saviour.
It's based on fear of hellfire.

Chrisitianity is not necessarily based on fear of hellfire.

There are three types of Christians:

1. Those that have faith because of rational thought (reason).

2. Those that have faith because of threat of punishment (fear of God).

3. Those that have faith because of love for God.

Jesus taught that the first two - although saved - will never see the face of God. The third is the only brand that will. This is why Jesus said that the most important commandment is to "love your God with all your heart, all your might and all your soul".

Jesus repeatedly told his followers to look within in order to find the Kingdom of God.

Because of this I find your hypothesis lacking.

Bayareamom · 10-12-2008, 11:19 PM

JMHO, but Jesus was not a concoction! He was real -- his life was real. There is a wealth of information which has come thru the Dead Sea Scrolls re: Jesus and the Essenes. Also, Dr. Joe Lewels has performed extensive research re: the Dead Sea Scrolls, Jesus, the Essenes, etc. He has written two really good books, one of which is "The Rulers of the Earth," which I would highly recommend reading.

Jesus was no myth -- he was a real flesh and blood man who was brought here to try to help -- he spoke the Truth. Unfortunately, most didn't believe him...until his death.

Bayareamom · 10-12-2008, 11:26 PM

Link to one site re: the Dead Sea Scrolls:

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/scrolls/juda.html

SNIP:

"The Dead Sea Scrolls include a range of contemporary documents that serve as a window on a turbulent and critical period in the history of Judaism. In addition to the three groups identified by Josephus (Pharisees, Sadducees, and Essenes), Judaism was further divided into numerous religious sects and political parties. With the destruction of the Temple and the commonwealth in 70 C.E., all that came to an end. Only the Judaism of the Pharisees--Rabbinic Judaism--survived. Reflected in Qumran literature is a Judaism in transition: moving from the religion of Israel as described in the Bible to the Judaism of the rabbis as expounded in the Mishnah (a third-century compilation of Jewish laws and customs which forms the basis of modern Jewish practice)."

"The Dead Sea Scrolls, which date back to the events described in the New Testament, have added to our understanding of the Jewish background of Christianity. Scholars have pointed to similarities between beliefs and practices outlined in the Qumran literature and those of early Christians. These parallels include comparable rituals of baptism, communal meals, and property. Most interesting is the parallel organizational structures: the sectarians divided themselves into twelve tribes led by twelve chiefs, similar to the structure of the early Church, with twelve apostles who, according to Jesus, would to sit on twelve thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel. Many scholars believe that both the literature of Qumran and the early Christian teachings stem from a common stream within Judaism and do not reflect a direct link between the Qumran community and the early Christians."

Frank Samuel · 10-12-2008, 11:39 PM

Very well written Mystica, so very true. Some people call this connection of Love being in the direct dominion of Love. Where your actions are guided by your love for God and all things. Most people because of shorcomings stay within the first two definitions you mention. Often missing the true experience they are longing for. This could take perhaps many lifetimes, I do feel that this is a very special time , the accelaration process is at its peak. Many people who follow in the footsteps of the Christ and die on the cross or eaten by lions or worse they could see Jesus right next to them, that is why they were not afraid. The secret is that God, Angels, Jesus, Saints and Sages
are always there, it is us that are deaf and blind. My childhood was not very easy and often I would call for God, asking him to show himself to me, then I heard a voice clearly ringing in my ears, "Frank, Frank, why are you looking for me out there" ? I was shocked and I must admit a little afraid, finally I muster the courage to ask, " what do you mean? " You have been looking for me everywhere, he answer ,I have always been by your side, look within you, there you will find me always by your side. I cry because often times I was angry and felt akward in dealing with other human beings. I've learn to see God within all of us ,the flame is there even if you cannot feel it burning within. Mystica you know that looking within for God is not the same as believing in the doctrine of a particular denomination Jesus did not created christianity man did, It should have been called Jesuism, too bad that so many books about the life of Jesus where burned or hidden in the vatican, the secrets are now in the open if you ask the right questions. Secrets kept for thousands of years, it is right in front of our eyes .

100thmonkey · 10-13-2008, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystica

Chrisitianity is not necessarily based on fear of hellfire.

There are three types of Christians:

1. Those that have faith because of rational thought (reason).

2. Those that have faith because of threat of punishment (fear of God).

3. Those that have faith because of love for God.

Jesus taught that the first two - although saved - will never see the face of God. The third is the only brand that will. This is why Jesus said that the most important commandment is to "love your God with all your heart, all your might and all your soul".

Jesus repeatedly told his followers to look within in order to find the Kingdom of God.

Because of this I find your hypothesis lacking.

?
My hypothesis doesn't exclude yours, however yours makes christianity redundant.

It is possible to follow that third principle without Jesus, to love our Creator without christianity, without the bible, etc.
All the bible story does is add those first two elements... the implied 'or else'.

I'm all for finding the truth within, as were the gnostics.
The original man behind the Jesus story, whatever his name/form/purpose really was, as revered by gnostics, has been hijacked by the man-wranglers into what we see today.

It's the version of Jesus pushed by the bible that has created an 'anti-christ'.

Humble Janitor · 10-13-2008, 09:21 AM

George Carlin said it best about religion. While I don't have the exact quote, he compared people who believe in God to people who believe in Extraterrestrial Life.

Pastors, Reverends and Popes are revered by society. People who believe in God are respected.

Ufologists, contactees and general believers of extraterrestrial life are shunned, ridiculed and dismissed as quacks.

It doesn't make sense to me. There's plenty of photos of UFOs but no photos of God.

Shouldn't it be the other way around? Or perhaps are they one and the same?

Mystica · 10-13-2008, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 100thmonkey

?
My hypothesis doesn't exclude yours, however yours makes christianity redundant.

It is possible to follow that third principle without Jesus, to love our Creator without christianity, without the bible, etc.
All the bible story does is add those first two elements... the implied 'or else'.

I'm all for finding the truth within, as were the gnostics.
The original man behind the Jesus story, whatever his name/form/purpose really was, as revered by gnostics, has been hijacked by the man-wranglers into what we see today.

It's the version of Jesus pushed by the bible that has created an 'anti-christ'.

It is likely that the Roman church was either created (or hijacked by individuals) to control the masses. Jesus showed disdain for organized religion and warned repeatedly of it.

There is abundant evidence that Jesus lived, taught and influenced many. There isn't any evidence that he was a story created by the Roman Empire. In the same manner as politics today, the Romans used his story to their own ends.

True Christianity is not learned in a church and is anything but redundant.

In a sense, it isn't any different than following this New Age Guru or that Eastern philosphy. For that matter it isn't any different than believing in the 100th monkey theory. We all choose the path we take. Unfotunately some paths are dead ends.

Quote:

Originally Posted by End_Times012

George Carlin said it best about religion. While I don't have the exact quote, he compared people who believe in God to people who believe in Extraterrestrial Life.

Pastors, Reverends and Popes are revered by society. People who believe in God are respected.

Ufologists, contactees and general believers of extraterrestrial life are shunned, ridiculed and dismissed as quacks.

It doesn't make sense to me. There's plenty of photos of UFOs but no photos of God.

Shouldn't it be the other way around? Or perhaps are they one and the same?

I don't take advice on my faith from comedians - but his point about them being one and the same is close. Sure would make it easy if Adam and Eve had cameras. But if it was easy, it wouldn't be worthwhile.

milk and honey · 10-13-2008, 05:25 PM

From the horses mouth,

http://www.askrealjesus.com/index.html

Humble Janitor · 10-13-2008, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystica

I don't take advice on my faith from comedians - but his point about them being one and the same is close.

That wasn't his point. That was my question. I should have clarified. Great man who was more than just a comedian.

Majorion · 02-22-2010, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humble Janitor

It doesn't make sense to me. There's plenty of photos of UFOs but no photos of God.

Shouldn't it be the other way around? Or perhaps are they one and the same?

HJ, it all depends on how you define God.

Some people believe that the Universe is God, and we have plenty of pictures there. Some people believe that God can be seen all around us in that 'mother earth' or 'Gaia' is God. Personally, I happen to believe that many religions were inspired by and came from extraterrestrials. Of course no one knows for certain, but its an explanation that in my estimation -- holds more water than the explanation about an actual deity.

Putting religions and the thousand different belief systems aside, I think the only real God is a force all encompassing and timeless and something/someone so unfathomable to our minds, it's almost pointless dwelling on the matter for too long.

Here's something else to think about:

Quote:

Foundationism (not to be confused with the school of philosophy called foundationalism), is a fictional religion invented by J. Michael Straczynski for his science fiction television show, Babylon 5. Foundationism appeared on Earth around the year 2157 in response to contact with other intelligent species in the universe. Dr. Franklin explains that "the idea behind the Foundation is that to get back to the roots of all the Earth religions, get past the doctrines to the core of each belief system to find out what they have in common. And they've got a lot more in common than you think. It's just when politics and money and nationalism get in the way that things get a little messed up." He also explains that Foundationists believe that "The closer you get to defining God, the further away it gets."

Source

10-12-2008, 08:09 PM	#1
100thmonkey Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Newcastle, Oz Posts: 177	Re: What was Jesus then? Jesus is the Anti-Christ. His story was concocted to lead people away from the truth within themselves, so that they look to some external saviour. It's based on fear of hellfire. It's their same old problem-reaction-solution situation. Create a problem: 'Original sin, defaulting to hell'. Get the reaction, 'Fear of going there'. Provide the solution: "Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's"... The Roman Empire knew it couldn't maintain control by military force indefinitely, so it turned to psychological means - the people will control themselves if we can get them to believe they are being watched all the time by a being who knows even their thoughts, and with their eternal fate on the line... The ultimate fear base. So the Roman Empire became the Roman Church, the Emperor became the Pope, the elites stayed on as priests, and so the bloodlines continued in power, with all countries loyal to the Pope, despite their borders and governments, etc... ...at least, that was the intention, until the gnostics and the secret societies started to grow and upset the power balance. So the Catholic church created the illuminati to infiltrate and take over the growing threats, offering 'higher mysteries', etc. Who could resist? That's why the Illuminati follow the same christian paradigm... and that's why christians think they're beliefs are verified by them...

10-12-2008, 11:19 PM	#3
Bayareamom Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 25	Re: What was Jesus then? JMHO, but Jesus was not a concoction! He was real -- his life was real. There is a wealth of information which has come thru the Dead Sea Scrolls re: Jesus and the Essenes. Also, Dr. Joe Lewels has performed extensive research re: the Dead Sea Scrolls, Jesus, the Essenes, etc. He has written two really good books, one of which is "The Rulers of the Earth," which I would highly recommend reading. Jesus was no myth -- he was a real flesh and blood man who was brought here to try to help -- he spoke the Truth. Unfortunately, most didn't believe him...until his death.

10-12-2008, 11:26 PM	#4
Bayareamom Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 25	Re: What was Jesus then? Link to one site re: the Dead Sea Scrolls: http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/scrolls/juda.html SNIP: "The Dead Sea Scrolls include a range of contemporary documents that serve as a window on a turbulent and critical period in the history of Judaism. In addition to the three groups identified by Josephus (Pharisees, Sadducees, and Essenes), Judaism was further divided into numerous religious sects and political parties. With the destruction of the Temple and the commonwealth in 70 C.E., all that came to an end. Only the Judaism of the Pharisees--Rabbinic Judaism--survived. Reflected in Qumran literature is a Judaism in transition: moving from the religion of Israel as described in the Bible to the Judaism of the rabbis as expounded in the Mishnah (a third-century compilation of Jewish laws and customs which forms the basis of modern Jewish practice)." "The Dead Sea Scrolls, which date back to the events described in the New Testament, have added to our understanding of the Jewish background of Christianity. Scholars have pointed to similarities between beliefs and practices outlined in the Qumran literature and those of early Christians. These parallels include comparable rituals of baptism, communal meals, and property. Most interesting is the parallel organizational structures: the sectarians divided themselves into twelve tribes led by twelve chiefs, similar to the structure of the early Church, with twelve apostles who, according to Jesus, would to sit on twelve thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel. Many scholars believe that both the literature of Qumran and the early Christian teachings stem from a common stream within Judaism and do not reflect a direct link between the Qumran community and the early Christians."

10-12-2008, 11:39 PM	#5
Frank Samuel Project Avalon Moderator Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: i live in puerto rico Posts: 643	Re: What was Jesus then? Very well written Mystica, so very true. Some people call this connection of Love being in the direct dominion of Love. Where your actions are guided by your love for God and all things. Most people because of shorcomings stay within the first two definitions you mention. Often missing the true experience they are longing for. This could take perhaps many lifetimes, I do feel that this is a very special time , the accelaration process is at its peak. Many people who follow in the footsteps of the Christ and die on the cross or eaten by lions or worse they could see Jesus right next to them, that is why they were not afraid. The secret is that God, Angels, Jesus, Saints and Sages are always there, it is us that are deaf and blind. My childhood was not very easy and often I would call for God, asking him to show himself to me, then I heard a voice clearly ringing in my ears, "Frank, Frank, why are you looking for me out there" ? I was shocked and I must admit a little afraid, finally I muster the courage to ask, " what do you mean? " You have been looking for me everywhere, he answer ,I have always been by your side, look within you, there you will find me always by your side. I cry because often times I was angry and felt akward in dealing with other human beings. I've learn to see God within all of us ,the flame is there even if you cannot feel it burning within. Mystica you know that looking within for God is not the same as believing in the doctrine of a particular denomination Jesus did not created christianity man did, It should have been called Jesuism, too bad that so many books about the life of Jesus where burned or hidden in the vatican, the secrets are now in the open if you ask the right questions. Secrets kept for thousands of years, it is right in front of our eyes . Last edited by Frank Samuel; 10-13-2008 at 01:03 AM.

10-13-2008, 09:21 AM	#7
Humble Janitor Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,201	Re: What was Jesus then? George Carlin said it best about religion. While I don't have the exact quote, he compared people who believe in God to people who believe in Extraterrestrial Life. Pastors, Reverends and Popes are revered by society. People who believe in God are respected. Ufologists, contactees and general believers of extraterrestrial life are shunned, ridiculed and dismissed as quacks. It doesn't make sense to me. There's plenty of photos of UFOs but no photos of God. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Or perhaps are they one and the same?

10-13-2008, 05:25 PM	#9
milk and honey Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 222	Re: What was Jesus then? From the horses mouth, http://www.askrealjesus.com/index.html