Will you leave if the forum is a Paid Subscription?

Originally Posted by herbivore

IT IS an insult when someone suggests that if my income doesn't reach their standards I'm not worthy to share ideas with them.

So how would you feel about contributing quality content in leu of $$ which
could be added to the database?

My interest in a pay site is to eliminate the opportunists and snipers. Casual readers could read but not post. The price of admission for posting would be
to demonstrate that you were serious end sober enough to put together
an orginal article according to the charter guidlines. Demonstrate that you
are serious and not just a leech.

Would you show up at a community pot luck with your appetite and a smile?

[herbivore]

Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle

So how would you feel about contributing quality content in leu of $$ which
could be added to the database?

My interest in a pay site is to eliminate the opportunists and snipers. Casual readers could read but not post. The price of admission for posting would be
to demonstrate that you were serious end sober enough to put together
an orginal article according to the charter guidlines. Demonstrate that you
are serious and not just a leech.

Would you show up at a community pot luck with your appetite and a smile?

i admit a little cash in pocket wouldn't be something i'd oppose, in the circumstance that i actually did some work for the exchange. but, it depends on the 'database' of information you're referring to. if it's a avalon database or something of the sort, i wouldn't accept a monetary exchange for the truths i find. we're trying to step away from the monetary system. and besides, that's just a little step closer from the independent to bias line, in my opinion (which is the last thing we need); the truth mustn't be bias.

so what are you doing to stop 'serious end sober enough' 'opportunists' and 'snipers' (which are equally 'serious end sober enough' as the genuine posters,) from coughing up the few bucks to post? i think they would be as serious as we are, so a fee doesn't stop them. i'd think that anyone spending their time on this forum is serious about it, time is an important resource in this body. a fee just stops the people that don't have the monetary resources to pay. and in the process you omit a large group of genuine posters from being able to share their truths.

although being able to read the posts but not post yourself isn't as bad as not seeing the forum at all, which is what i had in mind when this was brought up. i hope this isn't taken too heavily, the internet has a way of doing that. more often i think we all need to try and 'be the change we want to see' in every little aspect of life.

Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle

Would you show up at a community pot luck with your appetite and a smile?

I have known a few in our guild that seem to have no problem with that...

That and show up to play after the setup work has been done, then suddenly have a urgent family matter at teardown.

We call em 'good time Charlies'

[Peer]

Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle

Would you show up at a community pot luck with your appetite and a smile?

No, I would bring my brother.....

[dutchie]

Originally Posted by Peer

No, I would bring my brother.....

[whitecrow]

Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle

So how would you feel about contributing quality content in leu of $$ which
could be added to the database?

My interest in a pay site is to eliminate the opportunists and snipers. Casual readers could read but not post. The price of admission for posting would be
to demonstrate that you were serious end sober enough to put together
an orginal article according to the charter guidlines.

And for those who are not talented writers?

Originally Posted by whitecrow

And for those who are not talented writers?

A photo essay perhaps? The eloquence is not the issue,
the effort and information is.

If you can grunt and point and still teach how to build a
fire, this is a good thing. It is valuable without money
exchanging hands.

Avalon is about building community. We all have skills
we can share at this level which will then trickle down
to end users all over the world. That is what the database is all about. That is why I signed on as a researcher. Hopefully it is more than a cool green title.


The database would ideally be a searchable indexed collection of this knowledge in coherent easy to read
articles. A group effort to benefit us all and help see us
through hard times. The Fer Fal essays are a good example. His information is priceless because his information is first hand fact, not theory.

For example, Fer Fal teaches that in a collapsed crime ridden society you are most vulnerable to attack when
entering or exiting your home. Who woulda thunk it?
Nice tidbit to know if zombie time comes, ehh?

[herbivore]

you claim this knowledge in this potential database would be in the class of 'priceless', yet a fee would be required to share the priceless information?

Originally Posted by herbivore

you claim this knowledge in this potential database would be in the class of 'priceless', yet a fee would be required to share the priceless information?

Why should I research for you if you are unwilling to give anything in return?

In a community garden there are shares. Shares may be
earned with labor or with cash. Is it my responsibility to
make sure that you eat when there is no food to be had
and you have done nothing to prepare? To an extent, yes. That is called charity. Are you looking for handouts? I can help. It is free for the taking if you know it exists and you know where to find it. It is priceless, and it will help feed your family in hard times.

http://www.biorationalinstitute.com/...a_strategy.pdf

There, now you can't say I never gave you anything.
Of course, it would be a good idea to support the author by buying a hard copy.

Is it my responsibility to show you how to grow the food
if you are unwilling to lift a finger on my behalf? In community I've got your back, we work together to our mutual benefit. In a welfare society you'd better work harder because they are all depending on you. The mods here are all volunteers. What have you brought them that will help feed their families if the system really does
crash?

In your own community/ground team group, how much
deadwood will you carry before you rebel and say enough?

The right information when I need it in a concise format
without wading through pages of unrelated and often trivial debate. That is priceless. I would pay money for it, big money. Indeed, I have in the past.

[KathyT]

Perhaps this should be moved over to servers who do provide free services to group forums. Yahoo groups is one and Google groups is another.

If what is important is getting the word out... there would be a lot of openness in those groups!

[whitecrow]

Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle

Why should I research for you if you are unwilling to give anything in return?

If that's your position, then I think you aren't fit to be a researcher for a forum that concerns itself with shifting to new paradigms and a new society. You're just carrying your old baggage right along with you.

No one has asked me to research, moderate, mediate or anything else here...but if they did, I'd do it for free.

Originally Posted by whitecrow

No one has asked me to research, moderate, mediate or anything else here...but if they did, I'd do it for free.

Where's the beef?

You need an invitation?

Start right here by wading through the pages of stuff in this forum. Condense it down into a concise indexed easy to read format. Contact Colin and tell him you want to be a researcher and you want
access to the researchers area. Tell him I said to double what I'm making out of the deal. You can
even choose your research topics.

[gordon]

You need an invitation?

I do not mean to 'stir the Avalon pot'...but a while ago, Carol did request to all if the members would like to be a Mod. Whitecrow if you do know or not, the Mods on Avalon-Camelot use their free time to be on here. They do it because they want to, they do not get paid to be here, they pay with their free time to deal with the members.

[whitecrow]

Originally Posted by gordon

I...a while ago, Carol did request to all if the members would like to be a Mod. Whitecrow if you do know or not, the Mods on Avalon-Camelot use their free time to be on here. They do it because they want to, they do not get paid to be here, they pay with their free time to deal with the members.

Of course I know the mods are unpaid. Duh. And yes, I saw the request and I did offer. No one got back to me. And there's no beef! I neither need nor especially want to be a mod...was just offering to help out.

I don't have oodles of free time. I come here every day because I think we are discussing important subjects (mostly). I come here every day because I believe I can contribute. If what the owners want is money instead of my intellectual contributions they're out of luck because I don't have any.

I'm thinking this thread reveals the true intent of the owners.

[dutchie]

Originally Posted by whitecrow

If that's your position, then I think you aren't fit to be a researcher for a forum that concerns itself with shifting to new paradigms and a new society. You're just carrying your old baggage right along with you.

No one has asked me to research, moderate, mediate or anything else here...but if they did, I'd do it for free.

[herbivore]

Originally Posted by dutchie

"Alpha Strategy: 1. the first plan for an individual to protect his wealth. 2. the best plan for protecting the basic savings of any individual during times of monetary turmoil."

THIS is what you're preaching on this forums about, in defense to no one wanting to pay your fee?!

first of all, we're all in a time of monetary turmoil right now. period.

secondly, are we not trying to rid ourselves and the earth of monetary and material baggage? that's not being the change you want to see.

thirdly, i myself am very surpised to have seen an avalon researcher like you act like this. you're supposed to be what the groundcrew looks up to in their time of need. instead you're asking for money for the work you VOLUNTARILY started in the first place.

[herbivore]

Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle

Why should I research for you if you are unwilling to give anything in return?

In a community garden there are shares. Shares may be
earned with labor or with cash. Is it my responsibility to
make sure that you eat when there is no food to be had
and you have done nothing to prepare? To an extent, yes. That is called charity. Are you looking for handouts? I can help. It is free for the taking if you know it exists and you know where to find it. It is priceless, and it will help feed your family in hard times.

http://www.biorationalinstitute.com/...a_strategy.pdf

There, now you can't say I never gave you anything.
Of course, it would be a good idea to support the author by buying a hard copy.

Is it my responsibility to show you how to grow the food
if you are unwilling to lift a finger on my behalf? In community I've got your back, we work together to our mutual benefit. In a welfare society you'd better work harder because they are all depending on you. The mods here are all volunteers. What have you brought them that will help feed their families if the system really does
crash?

In your own community/ground team group, how much
deadwood will you carry before you rebel and say enough?

The right information when I need it in a concise format
without wading through pages of unrelated and often trivial debate. That is priceless. I would pay money for it, big money. Indeed, I have in the past.

this is not a community in which we're all trying to survive, this is an internet forum.

"Is it my responsibility to show you how to grow the food
if you are unwilling to lift a finger on my behalf?" - are you saying that it's not your responsibility to research if we're unwilling to pay you?

in a living community, of course i would carry my wight to keep myself and others alive. but that's a far cry from this internet forum we have here.

first you said the truths that are found here are priceless, yet you're literally putting a price on sharing those truths.

do you sit at this forum all day? and do nothing else to make a living?

"The mods here are all volunteers. What have you brought them that will help feed their families if the system really does
crash? " ARE YOU SERIOUS?

volunteer - 1. a person who voluntarily offers himself or herself for a service or undertaking. 2. a person who performs a service willingly and without pay.

i guess i lost the memo that said i have to pay back anyone who's ever gave me knowledge.

i'm done ranting.

[milk and honey]

A discussion forum is something that all members contribute their time and knowledge to. No-one should have to pay to participate in an exchange like that.

If you need to charge for something then charge for the product itself... ie.. Project Camelot videos. Perhaps one dollar per view would be fair and would generate a lot of money.

If you insist on disseminating that info for free then choose some other product to sell. A fee for the discussion forum should be the last thing on your list. It is unprecendented i'd say for good reason. It's not fair.

I wouldn't pay to read and contribute what I and other forum members post here. A lot of it is just blather and personal opinion anyway.... which is all very well as a free exchange.

[Ant0ni081]

Originally Posted by milk and honey

A discussion forum is something that all members contribute their time and knowledge to. No-one should have to pay to participate in an exchange like that.

If you need to charge for something then charge for the product itself... ie.. Project Camelot videos. Perhaps one dollar per view would be fair and would generate a lot of money.

If you insist on disseminating that info for free then choose some other product to sell. A fee for the discussion forum should be the last thing on your list. It is unprecendented i'd say for good reason. It's not fair.

I wouldn't pay to read and contribute what I and other forum members post here. A lot of it is just blather and personal opinion anyway.... which is all very well as a free exchange.

Agree with everything you stated here. Good post and to the point.

We can try to free our minds. . . .but never our wallets it seems lol

Takecare all

Originally Posted by herbivore

i'm done ranting.

Is that a promise?

Yes I am very serious.

Set your sense of entitlement aside and pay it forward if you cannot pay it
back. As I have done here for you throughout this forum casting pearls. There never was and never will be a free lunch. What
you learn here may save lives in the future in real time.

[Swanny]

Baggy you need to learn about Karma, that will save your future lives

Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle

There never was and never will be a free lunch.

It's obvious to me you have never been to Vegas

What you learn here may save lives in the future in real time.

So I should pay for that? Since I am one of those 'teaching' why should I pay to try to wake you up?

Heck even the Red Cross and St Johns Ambulance give FREE lessons and info on how to save lives...

[Orion Morris]

Originally Posted by zorgon

It's obvious to me you have never been to Vegas




So I should pay for that? Since I am one of those 'teaching' why should I pay to try to wake you up?

Heck even the Red Cross and St Johns Ambulance give FREE lessons and info on how to save lives...

I value your opinion Zorgon... but we are teaching eachother. You are not any better than the most offensive or un enlightened member on the fourm...

I agree though... None of us should pay for it

Originally Posted by Orion Morris

You are not any better than the most offensive or un enlightened member on the fourm...

Quite true... you mistook my intent I DID say "one of those" and 'teaching' was in the quotes

Now I gotta run and earn some of that money everyone is talking about

TTFN

[Shellie]

It seems people are confused about the nature of non-profit and for-profit. PA and PC cost money to run. The mods aren't making any money and I doubt Bill and Kerry and setting anything aside for retirement. Anyway, check out the cost of gas, hotels and plane tickets back and forth between Arizona and Vegas and Australia and Russia and the rest of Europe, and you'll get an idea of what kind of money it takes to bring us the videos they let us see.

I am only sad I am stretched so thin. Otherwise I would gladly give a handsome chunk each month.