Poor Gary Mckinnon

TheGhost · 12-06-2008, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murnut

You made personal statements about me based no knowledge.

On face value, which is the same that you judge me on, your video's propose the net effect of anarchy.

Try following the advice of those videos, and see how far that "enlightenment" takes you.

"You made personal statements about me based no knowledge."
I do have some knowledge - we've been arguing for a while, now.

"your video's propose the net effect of anarchy"
They propose not bowing down to a corrupt legal system. There is nothing wrong with having a legal system - but there is something very wrong with maintaining our current, utterly corrupt legal system that RELIES upon deception of the public (the people it is supposed to serve, by the way) in order to operate.

The methods described, of deflecting and defeating 'legal' actions against you, are perfectly lawful.

murnut · 12-06-2008, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGhost

"You made personal statements about me based no knowledge."
I do have some knowledge - we've been arguing for a while, now.

"your video's propose the net effect of anarchy"
They propose not bowing down to a corrupt legal system. There is nothing wrong with having a legal system - but there is something very wrong with maintaining our current, utterly corrupt legal system that RELIES upon deception of the public (the people it is supposed to serve, by the way) in order to operate.

The methods described, of deflecting and defeating 'legal' actions against you, are perfectly lawful.

Which video describes a better legal system?

I agree that there is room for improvement, but no one ever seems to have a better plan.

Where is this better plan?

murnut · 12-06-2008, 05:15 PM

For the record, I have no problem with Gary serving his time in Britain, if any.

But would Gary plead out right now based on this?

Say 3 years?

I doubt it

Kojak · 01-09-2010, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murnut

Which video describes a better legal system?

I agree that there is room for improvement, but no one ever seems to have a better plan.

Where is this better plan?

A better plan?? Common sense might work Bro!!!! Gary is being victimised, forget all the legal jargon and so forth. Gary's a decent guy being victimised. Maybe they should concern themselves with their stupid security and move on, spend some money on the homeless, instead of pursuing Gary.

Brinty- the US, UK or your Govt, it's all the same. You can throw the Vatican, Masons etc into the mix, they're all connected to screw us.

DAYDREAMER · 01-10-2010, 09:36 PM

I just hope that Gary has some more secret info that he is keeping to himself and can have revealed in the future (through someone else that he trusts) if the US govt puts him behind bars, cause he will have nothing to lose then.

pineal-pilot-in merkabah · 01-14-2010, 01:16 PM

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...g-1866971.html

King Lear · 02-16-2010, 01:35 PM

SteveX · 02-16-2010, 03:39 PM

no caste · 03-07-2010, 09:05 AM

Gary McKinnon case to be Judicially Reviewed in May. Also about the time of the UK elections. forum link:

Brown abandons No.10
http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?p=245372

SteveX · 03-07-2010, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by no caste

Gary McKinnon case to be Judicially Reviewed in May. Also about the time of the UK elections. forum link:

Brown abandons No.10
http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?p=245372

That is NOT good. If they ship him over to the USA at that time, Gary's story will be lost in the press.

no caste · 03-07-2010, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveX

That is NOT good. If the ship him over to the USA at that time, Gary's story will be lost in the press.

Yeah, could be. Maybe "For no good reason the UK Supreme Court Law Lords also seem unwilling to defend British sovereignty" might be an election issue? I read down the page a bit: Judicial Review for McKinnon, May 25th & 26th 2010. Why is the UK election date wishy-washy? "The next United Kingdom general election is due to take place on or before 3 June 2010, barring exceptional circumstances."

anonypony · 03-14-2010, 07:42 PM

http://votingformckinnon.ning.com/

You can cast your vote here...

murnut · 12-06-2008, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGhost

"You made personal statements about me based no knowledge."
I do have some knowledge - we've been arguing for a while, now.

I don't know you, you don't know me.

I saw a ufo in 73...200 yards, daylight, 30 ft of the ground.

I know the phenomena exists.

What the ufo community denies is accountability for it's own actions.

Misinfo and disinfo comes from both sides.

I say that it should not be present on our side.

It dilutes what we are trying to accomplish....or what we should be trying to accomplish...the scientific study

We can't force disclosure based on lies.

piers2210 · 12-07-2008, 06:11 AM

This is a great thread becuase everyone wants to know what happens to Gary McKinnon, as his case is of great interest on a number of important levels, which don't need repeating here by me.

However, i think the tread has run out of steam until new info comes to light. The best "new info" was posted by Gary's relative (anonypony) on 29th Nov, and antaletriangle on 2nd Dec.

I'm more of a "lurker" ie someone who joined this forum to seek/gather information, and some of what has been posted is disappointing, as it has no purpose in terms of "knowledge gathering" or genuine useful informative opinions - you shouldn't really have to wade through insults etc to get to the good stuff.

Having said that, i appreciate the postings of the ghost and murnut which have had some informative content especially when directed to the legal niceties of the case, and i understand and sympathise with the opinions of subsonik on 25th nov and historycircus on 5th Dec.

Can further postings have genuine informative content? Thats why i joined the forum.

May justice be done (which may not necessarily follow the law precisely) - as a former solicitor i know that the law can be circumvented and deals done - and above all i think and hope the truth will come out. That is why we are here. US tax payers whose money funds the US government activities should have a right to the truth. We UK citizens should hope that our own goverment supports the cause of its own citizens, howsoever and wheresoever that help is required.

Peace and light.

TheGhost · 12-13-2008, 03:10 PM

"I won't resort to your level of name calling"
I wasn't calling you childish and naive; I was calling your argument childish and naive. Now lets suppose for a moment that you are neither childish or naive: why would an adult make childish and naive arguments? Propaganda, maybe?

Like the Nazis said about propaganda, the more people that you are trying to appeal to the less intelligent the argument must be, i.e. the complexity of the argument is inversely proportional to the number of people you are presenting it to. The internet provides you with an opportunity to reach a lot of people, so as a propaganda merchant (possibly even an asset of the the PTB) your argument is childish, simplistic and naive in nature.

"The precedent has been set."
Where and when, what case(s)? Were these cases criminally contrived like Gary's is? Because if they were they are not setting a precedent, they are simly more examples of corruption in the legal system.

"Gary is not charged with the death penalty"
Gary is not yet in US custody and if he is ever handed over to them anything could happen. If there was no possibility of the death penalty why did the New Jersey authorities involved in the prosecution threaten him with being 'fried'? Are they children making childish threats or are they adults in a position to make their threats a reality?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-of-Lords.html
http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,...331828b,00.htm
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/itmanagement...9285950,00.htm

Do you think Nelson Mandela should still be in prison for terrorism?
"He did his time"
Is that a 'yes' or a 'no'? You wouldn't be trying to duck a question (once again) would you?

Do you think the actions of the Nazis or Communists were okay because they were legal?
"Those that stood up accepted the consequences."
Is that a 'yes' or a 'no'? You wouldn't be trying to duck a question (once again) would you? Did those who stood up accept the consequences or were they victims of the consequences i.e. victims of murder by the government?

If the US government made it illegal to even ask questions about UFOs/ETs would you stop asking because your government 'knows best'?
"No, but I would accept the consequences for doing what I thought was right."
Why would you accept the 'consequences' for doing what you thought to be right? Why should there be any consequences for you? Why wouldn't you, instead, fight those that are trying to impose consequences on you?

Fundamentally, murnut, why are you so willing to be a slave?
Why are you so unwilling to stand up to corrupt government officials, a corrupt legal system, corrupt police, etc., etc., etc.?

A jack-boot is stamping your face into the dirt and you (willingly it seems) accept it.

murnut · 12-13-2008, 03:27 PM

You don't get what I have been saying.

Pointless to continue here, I won't be paying.

Good luck to Gary, and to all the UFO vigilantes....and just normal vigilantes like you Ghost.

In the end, most vigilantes are no different than the thugs they despise.

Goodbye Avalon!

I am at OpenMinds, Ghost.

I would be proud if you would join us.

Most in the UFO community vehemently disagree with my stance on Gary.

But what most fail to realize is that they are using the same argument as suicide bombers.

Actions are justified against the govt because they are evil....or because they are withholding are right to know.

No one would believe that these evil govts really don't know themselves

12-06-2008, 05:15 PM	#3
murnut Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Philly Posts: 179	Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon For the record, I have no problem with Gary serving his time in Britain, if any. But would Gary plead out right now based on this? Say 3 years? I doubt it Last edited by murnut; 12-07-2008 at 06:14 AM.

01-10-2010, 09:36 PM	#5
DAYDREAMER Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 57	Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon I just hope that Gary has some more secret info that he is keeping to himself and can have revealed in the future (through someone else that he trusts) if the US govt puts him behind bars, cause he will have nothing to lose then.

01-14-2010, 01:16 PM	#6
pineal-pilot-in merkabah Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: england Posts: 1,153	Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...g-1866971.html

02-16-2010, 01:35 PM	#7
King Lear Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Not S-4 Posts: 306	Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon Last edited by King Lear; 02-16-2010 at 01:48 PM.

02-16-2010, 03:39 PM	#8
SteveX Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: UK Posts: 356	Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

03-07-2010, 09:05 AM	#9
no caste Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2,375	Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon Gary McKinnon case to be Judicially Reviewed in May. Also about the time of the UK elections. forum link: Brown abandons No.10 http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?p=245372

03-14-2010, 07:42 PM	#12
anonypony Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 42	Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon http://votingformckinnon.ning.com/ You can cast your vote here...

12-07-2008, 06:11 AM	#14
piers2210 Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 403	Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon This is a great thread becuase everyone wants to know what happens to Gary McKinnon, as his case is of great interest on a number of important levels, which don't need repeating here by me. However, i think the tread has run out of steam until new info comes to light. The best "new info" was posted by Gary's relative (anonypony) on 29th Nov, and antaletriangle on 2nd Dec. I'm more of a "lurker" ie someone who joined this forum to seek/gather information, and some of what has been posted is disappointing, as it has no purpose in terms of "knowledge gathering" or genuine useful informative opinions - you shouldn't really have to wade through insults etc to get to the good stuff. Having said that, i appreciate the postings of the ghost and murnut which have had some informative content especially when directed to the legal niceties of the case, and i understand and sympathise with the opinions of subsonik on 25th nov and historycircus on 5th Dec. Can further postings have genuine informative content? Thats why i joined the forum. May justice be done (which may not necessarily follow the law precisely) - as a former solicitor i know that the law can be circumvented and deals done - and above all i think and hope the truth will come out. That is why we are here. US tax payers whose money funds the US government activities should have a right to the truth. We UK citizens should hope that our own goverment supports the cause of its own citizens, howsoever and wheresoever that help is required. Peace and light.

12-13-2008, 03:10 PM	#15
TheGhost Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Merseyside, England Posts: 50	Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon "I won't resort to your level of name calling" I wasn't calling you childish and naive; I was calling your argument childish and naive. Now lets suppose for a moment that you are neither childish or naive: why would an adult make childish and naive arguments? Propaganda, maybe? Like the Nazis said about propaganda, the more people that you are trying to appeal to the less intelligent the argument must be, i.e. the complexity of the argument is inversely proportional to the number of people you are presenting it to. The internet provides you with an opportunity to reach a lot of people, so as a propaganda merchant (possibly even an asset of the the PTB) your argument is childish, simplistic and naive in nature. "The precedent has been set." Where and when, what case(s)? Were these cases criminally contrived like Gary's is? Because if they were they are not setting a precedent, they are simly more examples of corruption in the legal system. "Gary is not charged with the death penalty" Gary is not yet in US custody and if he is ever handed over to them anything could happen. If there was no possibility of the death penalty why did the New Jersey authorities involved in the prosecution threaten him with being 'fried'? Are they children making childish threats or are they adults in a position to make their threats a reality? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-of-Lords.html http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,...331828b,00.htm http://news.zdnet.co.uk/itmanagement...9285950,00.htm Do you think Nelson Mandela should still be in prison for terrorism? "He did his time" Is that a 'yes' or a 'no'? You wouldn't be trying to duck a question (once again) would you? Do you think the actions of the Nazis or Communists were okay because they were legal? "Those that stood up accepted the consequences." Is that a 'yes' or a 'no'? You wouldn't be trying to duck a question (once again) would you? Did those who stood up accept the consequences or were they victims of the consequences i.e. victims of murder by the government? If the US government made it illegal to even ask questions about UFOs/ETs would you stop asking because your government 'knows best'? "No, but I would accept the consequences for doing what I thought was right." Why would you accept the 'consequences' for doing what you thought to be right? Why should there be any consequences for you? Why wouldn't you, instead, fight those that are trying to impose consequences on you? Fundamentally, murnut, why are you so willing to be a slave? Why are you so unwilling to stand up to corrupt government officials, a corrupt legal system, corrupt police, etc., etc., etc.? A jack-boot is stamping your face into the dirt and you (willingly it seems) accept it. Last edited by TheGhost; 12-13-2008 at 03:13 PM.

12-13-2008, 03:27 PM	#16
murnut Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Philly Posts: 179	Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon You don't get what I have been saying. Pointless to continue here, I won't be paying. Good luck to Gary, and to all the UFO vigilantes....and just normal vigilantes like you Ghost. In the end, most vigilantes are no different than the thugs they despise. Goodbye Avalon! I am at OpenMinds, Ghost. I would be proud if you would join us. Most in the UFO community vehemently disagree with my stance on Gary. But what most fail to realize is that they are using the same argument as suicide bombers. Actions are justified against the govt because they are evil....or because they are withholding are right to know. No one would believe that these evil govts really don't know themselves