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Old 01-08-2010, 01:50 PM   #1
trainedobserver
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Default Billy Meier discussion cont.

Billy Meier may or may not have had a genuine experience at some point, however the evidence does strongly suggest that he has fabricated photos and videos and passed them off as genuine. It certainly taints everything he has to say and show. After have studied the Billy Meier case on and off for several years trying to give this guy the benefit of the doubt, I find it difficult to ignore the obvious use of models and chicanery. He has a cult following and has been described as a cult leader. He is like all the rest of the frauds, hoaxers, and faux-reality show hucksters who just further confound and obfuscate the phenomena rather than reveal any "truth" about it.
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Old 01-08-2010, 03:56 PM   #2
Soulcrafter
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Default Re: Billy Meier discussion cont.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trainedobserver View Post
Billy Meier may or may not have had a genuine experience at some point, however the evidence does strongly suggest that he has fabricated photos and videos and passed them off as genuine. It certainly taints everything he has to say and show. After have studied the Billy Meier case on and off for several years trying to give this guy the benefit of the doubt, I find it difficult to ignore the obvious use of models and chicanery. He has a cult following and has been described as a cult leader. He is like all the rest of the frauds, hoaxers, and faux-reality show hucksters who just further confound and obfuscate the phenomena rather than reveal any "truth" about it.
According to John Lear the case is contaminated with fake photo's.
I await further details what and what's not been faked.
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Old 01-08-2010, 04:14 PM   #3
trainedobserver
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Default Re: Billy Meier discussion cont.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulcrafter View Post
According to John Lear the case is contaminated with fake photo's.
I await further details what and what's not been faked.
The famous wedding cake photo has been shown to be a fake along with others. The most embarrassing examples being the photos of the Dean Martin TV-show dancer come alien and the "dinosaur picture" that has been shown to match an illustration from a book. If you google Billy Meier you'll find this information easily enough.
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Old 01-08-2010, 05:02 PM   #4
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Default Re: Billy Meier discussion cont.

The only thing I know of Meier is at least 25 yrs old.

I own copies of the first two large (18 inch X 18 inch) "coffee table books" of his pictures. One is called "Contact With The Peiades" the other... I forget, would have to go dig it up.

I just tried to find them on Amazon, and they didn't turn up.

Are they out of print?

Anyway, Meier, like many, may have succumbed to what I call the "Psychic Phenomena", or "Publish or perish" form of coercion:
  • Someone has a truly unique experience, insight, or whatever, (hell! Everyone has them on occasion.) and tells the world.
  • Then, along comes another one. Now they start to collect people who "hang on their every word", for one reason or another.
  • People begin asking question, beyond the scope of their experience. They try their best to answer.
  • Someone proposes acting as their "agent", or business manager. For a fee/percentage, of course. (Next comes the dreaded "Business Plan")
  • Next thing you know, the people surrounding them actually expect... hell, demand! they spit something out on schedule!
  • This last one devolves to where they are actually expected to provide some psychic dissertation for every event, from leaves falling to cow farts.
Now, whether it is from their own kindness, not wanting to disappoint people, or their, or someone else's greed, they find themselves strapped to a treadmill. Too painfull to step off, or too tempting to resist, whatever. They come to a place in their "career" when you have to wonder:
Is there that much cohesive vision among all these people, or are they just all Googling the same words... quoting each other? A kind of "recombinate vision".
When I add up all the "odd" bits of synchronicity I have experienced in my life I know I could never make a career out of it. I also know if I were "in that mode" all the time, I would both:
a) Be completely insane, within a month, ro two, or
b) Be somewhere mentally that I'd be completely useless, in terms of seeing anything useful to anyone else.

You mileage may vary. But there's my 2 cents worth.

Fred
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Last edited by Fredkc; 01-08-2010 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:44 PM   #5
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Default Re: Billy Meier discussion cont.

Scientific analysis of Billy Meier's images, audio and video evidence in late 1970s: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...29992906964593
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Old 01-08-2010, 07:30 PM   #6
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Default Re: Billy Meier discussion cont.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trainedobserver View Post
The famous wedding cake photo has been shown to be a fake along with others. The most embarrassing examples being the photos of the Dean Martin TV-show dancer come alien and the "dinosaur picture" that has been shown to match an illustration from a book. If you google Billy Meier you'll find this information easily enough.
You mean these?








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Old 01-09-2010, 03:03 AM   #7
Firstlook
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Default Re: Billy Meier discussion cont.

Important information reagarding skeptics against BM.

Michael Horn brings up some good points.

anyways, the interview is from a podcast(itunes search):

Open Minds Radio

Michael Horn on Billy Meier - Apr 12,2009

length - 1:30:53



Enjoy,

peace
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Old 01-09-2010, 03:28 AM   #8
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Default Re: Billy Meier discussion cont.

I am not necessarily saying Billie is a fraud, but nobody is going to convince me that the weddingcake ufo is real.

If this were my website I certainly would be removing this type of "evidence".

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Old 01-10-2010, 05:43 PM   #9
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Default Re: Billy Meier discussion cont.

Quote:
Originally Posted by micjer View Post
I am not necessarily saying Billie is a fraud, but nobody is going to convince me that the weddingcake ufo is real.

If this were my website I certainly would be removing this type of "evidence".

If you want to fly interstellar and the spaceship looks like a wedding cake, what do you say to that? "I ain't gonna get caught flying in a wedding cake"??
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Old 01-11-2010, 05:15 PM   #10
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Default Re: Billy Meier discussion cont.

billy meir is a big far zero for me. he nver resonated once with me. i never even looked inot any of his site or anyone associated with him to deeply. its like scratch and sniff. i get near some information and you can usually tell by scratching the suface and sniffing the bs. you dont need to look at stuff inside out to get a feel for it.. this info has never peaked my interest.

infact almost all ufo stuff is unprovable and hearsay. i find it utterly fascinating but take none of it as gospel.

do i belive in extraterrestrial beings and craft? yes!
is this info true and other stuff like it ? couyld be!

i dont take any info over anything else and above all i dont take any of this type of info seriously. ET aid.jpg
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:04 PM   #11
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Default Re: Billy Meier discussion cont.

Some people have a strange idea about truth is. "Resonating" proves nothing, because people believe whatever they want to believe.

The problem with Billy Meier case is the lack of evidence. Everything he has is circumstantial or of no importance. His photos look like they are faked, but even if they were real it proves nothing. Who is piloting such aircrafts? An alien? How does a picture proves that?

And then the whole story that they only show themselves to Billy Meier, which is way too convenient. Of course it wouldn't be prudent for them to show themselves for people on the streets, but there are many researchers that would like to meet alien beings and ask some questions. They won't hurt them or anything, so why the restrictions?

And, finally, Billy poses as a messiah and openly admits to be a reincarnation of Jesus, Mohammed and other religious figures. He is clearly starting a religion around him, which can't be a good thing.
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:36 PM   #12
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Default Re: Billy Meier discussion cont.

Well... the bs scanner goes up for me around anyone who says... Only I can do this...

That's why Jesus and buddha were all cool, because they said...'you can all do this...'

My kind of reality.

I remember being gripped by George G's first interview with PC... and even he was quite tactful about Billy Meier... tactful enough to ring a few alarm bells. and I've not heard mention of the guy since then up until this thread.

Must have my head in the clouds....

Love the wedding cake though... and the quote "I'm not getting in that wedding cake" (yet girls get married in merringues!) and as for the dustbin lid photo - 'way to go!' I was lmao... (does that count as swearing? But no, seriously , I was ! The sheer ingenuity ((or lack of)) of these people)

We love in such a funny world. Exclusive pictures need to be fuzzy enough that we can believe in them. Too real, the sharper the focus, and we just won't believe.

It's a real cult leader who can tread the path correctly between just believable and just unbelievable. No easy task I'm sure. One wrong step and you're cult history.

K
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Old 01-13-2010, 11:58 AM   #13
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Default Re: Billy Meier discussion cont.

Seeing as he was a convicted fraudester, fell out with friends and relatives when they caught him faking stuff and aproached him, and then had most of his material proved fake, I still believe him because;
  1. I am gullible
  2. I joined his religous group and have nothing else
  3. i went along with it and dont want to feel stupid now its a lie
  4. I think he has done me a favour and shown me how facile and stupid people can be
  5. he is(has) a great story and confirms hopes, fears and beliefs in me which although may prove false make me whole, i NEED HIM
  6. is a great teacher and shows me that you too can use your imagination to create a religion and get rich quick scheme much like scientology
  7. admire billy for making jack assses out of "ufo" researchers who didnt see this coming but helped us to seperate the wheat form the chaff when it somes to trusted sources of information but putting real reserch into the phenomena back by 30years while we all fight and bicker over "veracity"
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:54 PM   #14
pineal-pilot-in merkabah
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Default Re: Billy Meier discussion cont.

im still @ the wedding cake. could BM have been visited by thule/nazi ww2 people from their supposed arctic base. just as feasible as et,s
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Old 01-13-2010, 03:09 PM   #15
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Default Re: Billy Meier discussion cont.

Oh no, not Billy Meier again!

The thing is, I'm very open minded, like many of you, Ive researched the Meier case over and over again giving him the benefit of doubt, kept tossing and turning, and I keep arriving at essentially the same conclusion.

Which is, Billy Meier may have had genuine experiences in his earlier times, experiences which remained very local to him but the evidence is absent there anyway. Most of the evidence we see are either a combination of fakerys and a few real ones, or all of it is fake.

One thing you cannot escape with this case, is Billy Meier's deliberate fakerys. There is a limit to which questionable evidence can be entertained, as well the 'contamination' hypothesis, but his wedding cake photos, the woman from the magazine, the toy gun, the dinasour, and all that, is testament to deliberate deception on his part, and therefore, one can never accept any of his other evidence genuinely, simply because its been proven over and again that he faked other things, so whats to stop him from faking all of it?

Bottom line, think of it this way for example -- would you ever introduce a "ufological newbie" to the Meier case? I know I wouldn't!
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Old 01-13-2010, 03:54 PM   #16
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Default Re: Billy Meier discussion cont.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Majorion View Post
Oh no, not Billy Meier again!

The thing is, I'm very open minded, like many of you, Ive researched the Meier case over and over again giving him the benefit of doubt, kept tossing and turning, and I keep arriving at essentially the same conclusion.

Which is, Billy Meier may have had genuine experiences in his earlier times, experiences which remained very local to him but the evidence is absent there anyway. Most of the evidence we see are either a combination of fakerys and a few real ones, or all of it is fake.

One thing you cannot escape with this case, is Billy Meier's deliberate fakerys. There is a limit to which questionable evidence can be entertained, as well the 'contamination' hypothesis, but his wedding cake photos, the woman from the magazine, the toy gun, the dinasour, and all that, is testament to deliberate deception on his part, and therefore, one can never accept any of his other evidence genuinely, simply because its been proven over and again that he faked other things, so whats to stop him from faking all of it?

Bottom line, think of it this way for example -- would you ever introduce a "ufological newbie" to the Meier case? I know I wouldn't!

what useful thing can we derive from this case?
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Old 01-13-2010, 04:06 PM   #17
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Default Re: Billy Meier discussion cont.

IMO there is some truth in Meier's story, but most, if not all, of the physical evidence has been contaminated.
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Old 01-13-2010, 04:13 PM   #18
Majorion
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Default Re: Billy Meier discussion cont.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nameless View Post
what useful thing can we derive from this case?
Thats a good question, the answers will vary, and I'm interested to hear you answer that too, nameless. So heres mine...

I think whats useful is we can learn some of the signs when a ufo case is possibly a deception. Again, I use possibly, tongue in cheek, because I'm not the foremost expert on Meier, neither a debunker nor a believer, and we cannot say 100% whats going on here, but it seems more than reasonable concluding there is definite deception on the part of Meier.

The only thing I find interesting with this case is the clearly enormous effort to discredit this person, for whatever reason that may be, it is evident. Usually thats a ringing bell for me that there's something to "check out". Because there are so many "contactees", but very few are targeted in the manner of Billy Meier. Its an eyebrow raiser.
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Old 01-13-2010, 04:17 PM   #19
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Default Re: Billy Meier discussion cont.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nameless View Post
what useful thing can we derive from this case?
It is a cautionary tale.
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Old 01-13-2010, 04:40 PM   #20
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Default Re: Billy Meier discussion cont.

The interesting thing about Billy Meier is that the technology did not exist to fake those photographs effectively back when they were taken. Some have tried....and failed to do so. And the films....CGI experts say absolutely no way they are fake.

But, he did fake a picture of Semjase and a dinosaur, this it known.

And the prophecies are filled with fear and judgment. They do not seem real at all.

So he is a mixed bag.
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:07 PM   #21
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Default Re: Billy Meier discussion cont.

my previous post although sarcastic i do believe that a favour has been done in this case, that being whoever has stood by his claims and taken them wholeheartedly with a lack of faculty of judgement are definitely on my list of people to stay clear of!

This has been a modern day parable of sorts, and there are many people who let down their guard and are now "sunk" by their allegiences. I'm sure this is the case of many so called contactees or people who make such claims in this field and other fortean fields. The problem being once you let them into your camp you become tarnished by their falsehood. How many sleeper sinkers are lurking amongst the Project Camelot roll call of whistleblower testimonies who will maybe be unequivovabily be revealed as "spoilers" again chipping away at the credulity that such topics richly need?
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Old 01-13-2010, 07:02 PM   #22
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Default Re: Billy Meier discussion cont.

Not sure if this link has been posted or not...but they dismantle the Meier claims with surgical precision. Complete with their own staged photos to prove they can indeed be faked.

http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/

The biggest tipoff for me that there was shenanigans going on with the Meier photos....almost all of his photos are off center...with the disk to one side and a nice shot of the background.

This may seem trivial...but if I saw a crystal clear blatant view of a UFO...that sucker is going to be right smack dab in the middle of my camera lense. I'm not gonna stop and adjust the shot to make sure I get the beautiful Swiss countryside in the photo as well. That alone tells me these photos were staged.

But who knows....maybe Meier himself is legit and he did have an experience. All I know is this Michael Horn guy is acting as Meiers mouthpiece essentially stating that every other claim of ET close encounters by other people is a lie...because Billy and ONLY Billy has contacts with ETs.

Just ego driven nonsense if you ask me.
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Old 01-13-2010, 07:13 PM   #23
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Default Re: Billy Meier discussion cont.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamber View Post
Not sure if this link has been posted or not...but they dismantle the Meier claims with surgical precision. Complete with their own staged photos to prove they can indeed be faked.

http://www.iigwest.com/investigations/meier/

The biggest tipoff for me that there was shenanigans going on with the Meier photos....almost all of his photos are off center...with the disk to one side and a nice shot of the background.

This may seem trivial...but if I saw a crystal clear blatant view of a UFO...that sucker is going to be right smack dab in the middle of my camera lense. I'm not gonna stop and adjust the shot to make sure I get the beautiful Swiss countryside in the photo as well. That alone tells me these photos were staged.

But who knows....maybe Meier himself is legit and he did have an experience. All I know is this Michael Horn guy is acting as Meiers mouthpiece essentially stating that every other claim of ET close encounters by other people is a lie...because Billy and ONLY Billy has contacts with ETs.

Just ego driven nonsense if you ask me.
Hmmm....the photo comparisons ARE interesting. Other than finding that of interest, I don't care one way or the either if he is real or fake.
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Old 01-14-2010, 01:46 PM   #24
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Default Re: Billy Meier discussion cont.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredkc View Post
The only thing I know of Meier is at least 25 yrs old.

I own copies of the first two large (18 inch X 18 inch) "coffee table books" of his pictures. One is called "Contact With The Peiades" the other... I forget, would have to go dig it up.

I just tried to find them on Amazon, and they didn't turn up.

Are they out of print?

Anyway, Meier, like many, may have succumbed to what I call the "Psychic Phenomena", or "Publish or perish" form of coercion:
  • Someone has a truly unique experience, insight, or whatever, (hell! Everyone has them on occasion.) and tells the world.
  • Then, along comes another one. Now they start to collect people who "hang on their every word", for one reason or another.
  • People begin asking question, beyond the scope of their experience. They try their best to answer.
  • Someone proposes acting as their "agent", or business manager. For a fee/percentage, of course. (Next comes the dreaded "Business Plan")
  • Next thing you know, the people surrounding them actually expect... hell, demand! they spit something out on schedule!
  • This last one devolves to where they are actually expected to provide some psychic dissertation for every event, from leaves falling to cow farts.
Now, whether it is from their own kindness, not wanting to disappoint people, or their, or someone else's greed, they find themselves strapped to a treadmill. Too painfull to step off, or too tempting to resist, whatever. They come to a place in their "career" when you have to wonder:
Is there that much cohesive vision among all these people, or are they just all Googling the same words... quoting each other? A kind of "recombinate vision".
When I add up all the "odd" bits of synchronicity I have experienced in my life I know I could never make a career out of it. I also know if I were "in that mode" all the time, I would both:
a) Be completely insane, within a month, ro two, or
b) Be somewhere mentally that I'd be completely useless, in terms of seeing anything useful to anyone else.

You mileage may vary. But there's my 2 cents worth.

Fred
Billy may have had contact way back when but it's seemingly peculiar how the frequency of contacts has increased exponentially with the advances of the Internet. Are his E.Tís techno freaks?

The above quoted analogy can also be pointed fairly and squarely to some of PC's video featured commentators. I swear if a very loud fart noise was recorded over Nelsons column one of these guys would have inside info or a bare minimum of a mysterious black ops contact, to enlighten us as to the use of sound waves to create toxic aromas.
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Old 01-14-2010, 03:45 PM   #25
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Default Re: Billy Meier discussion cont.

could be a nazi/viryl psy op.. since the pliadiens are saying the same as the new world order crowd, earths population must be cut to 500 million.. earth bound or cosmic its still nazi.. so its bad news.
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