The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

[shaberon]

Posted by Sue (Ayt) (here)

It’s disappointing to read the arguments, often between only two people on a single thread,

I always wonder why the two parties going back and forth about some argument don't just take it to PM's.

I personally am trying to flush the "other side" into the open.

This has so far only worked for a type of trolling, the type of person who has foregone conclusions about Q or the Jews or something, and they just stray off into vulgar behaviors and leave one way or another. It's like scraping barnacles.

That's not what I'm trying to achieve. There is supposed to be an argument, an intellectual rhetorical process, and the attempt is to carry it out as a public debate.

My guess is the arguments you are referring to must be more in the vein of trollish bickering.

I am not sure I have yet seen a real argument, any actual method of persuasion, take place. There are thousands of good points and valid pieces of information here. But then it is like playing Five Blind Men and an Elephant; each takes away some particular impression, and no type of consensus seems to come forward.

[Sue (Ayt)]

Posted by shaberon (here)
My guess is the arguments you are referring to must be more in the vein of trollish bickering.

Exactly, shaberon. I also enjoy well thought-out discussion/discourse/debate on a subject, with both sides presenting their facts and research.

But it gets really tedious when it devolves into childish bickering including outright name-calling or veiled personal affronts. And then it continues back and forth ad nauseam until various members report it to the mods. Sometimes it seems like a "last word" type of thing, like each party simply MUST get the last word in, and so it goes on and on.

PLEASE, if anyone feels so inclined to participate in something like this sort of thing, just take it to PM's. Just possibly, you might even wind up as friends. It happens.

[Ewan]

buttermilk

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
-------------

Hi, Guys, please listen up for a moment.

This thread is inspired by one of the recent 'disclosure prediction' threads that turned out to be yet another deliberate hoax.

This is not a shot any any individual member here: but I strongly feel that Avalon members should have a responsibility NOT to forward fake or hokey predictions or 'channeled messages' - which is currently happening at a rate of one or more a week.

We don't need this kind of nonsense in a climate of the times that could not be more serious. There ARE very critical things happening quietly in the world, and the real signals get lost in all the 'noise'.

Be very sure that this is intended.

Folks, I ask you: don't needlessly add to the noise.

I always wanted Avalon to be about quality rather than quantity: for people to be able to come here quickly and find a digest of good information and intelligent discussion.

To re-post any junk on YouTube or Facebook that catches our eye, thinking we're doing the members a service, might be a well-intended error of judgment. Please always use your intelligence and discrimination.

I'm no friend or fan of ATS, but the mods there immediately deleted a thread about the recent "The Agency" 'prediction' of a 'radioactive satellite' over Munich on 20 October, that was really a forecast comet - not only because it was clearly false, but because the writer urged that it must 'go viral'.

They were quite correct to censor this cheap nonsense and stop it in its tracks. Our collective alternative knowledge base is being deliberately infected by information of zero or negative value in the same way as our computers (or bodies!) can become infected with viruses.

The presence of the zero-value add-ons decreases our capacity to function optimally. In this case, we're rendered less able to evaluate authentic information. This is one reason why I find myself increasingly unsympathetic to hoaxes, hoaxers and other forms of knowledge devaluation, and have made some of the decisions I've made in the last year.

This is not in any way 'censoring the truth movement': the real truth is far more incredible and unbelievable than any fiction.

I want to make the real truth easier to see by flitering out the distractions - some of which are deliberate, and some of which are just naive.

In 2005-6 I was closely involved in the 'Serpo story'. It was a really valuable experience. Much of that was nonsense (and it got more and more ridiculous as the 'disclosure' was sabotaged from inside): but some was certainly true. It was worth discussing at first until it just became way too crazy and was eventually completely derailed. By that time I had abandoned it.

That's when I learned the priceless lesson that the truth in the alternative community is much more about PR than about actual facts. PR wins every time. And the insiders also understand this very well. They're masters at playing their cards.

So, don't help them win their game. Really intelligent analysis is the answer. But that takes time, and care, and real research. The insiders count on you not to bother to do all that.

They financed the creation of Facebook, and there's a good reason for their smart investment. The 'noise' is WAY amplified there. That's why I have no Facebook page, and never use it.

Indirectly related to this: please don't re-post YouTube videos with no comment, or with a simple statement like "Hey, Guys, look at this". I and many others will never watch a video unless someone tells me why I should spend the time. Please be smart and caring enough to summarize in your own words what the added value is.

Added value is what it's all about. If you're NOT adding value, then just keep reading. Though some of them are hard to find, Avalon has over 6,000 threads which contain enough good material to keep us all busy for a very long time.

My best wishes to all - Bill

[onawah]

And yet...
That message from Bill was posted in 2010.
Taking note especially of these words:

"Our collective alternative knowledge base is being deliberately infected by information of zero or negative value in the same way as our computers (or bodies!) can become infected with viruses.
The presence of the zero-value add-ons decreases our capacity to function optimally. In this case, we're rendered less able to evaluate authentic information. This is one reason why I find myself increasingly unsympathetic to hoaxes, hoaxers and other forms of knowledge devaluation, and have made some of the decisions I've made in the last year."

...One would think that by now the forum would no longer be host to gross disinformation from a grifter like Kim Goguen and her cohorts, who make the likes of Wilcock, Goode, Parkes, Ward, etc. look like amateurs in view of the many scams the former have created over the years.
Scams which have bilked countless gullible and well-meaning people out of millions of dollars by now, and thouands of hours of unpaid volunteer hours for phony projects that never came to anything.

Bill himself has admitted that Goguen is a preposterous liar and a fraud, and yet has permitted this thread (presently 109 pages long) to continue being featured on the forum since 2020:
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...the-Assemblies
A thread which presents Goguen and cohorts as being legitmate sources of information.

Project Avalon is not run on democratic principles, but I would imagine that if a poll was taken and enough members took the time to inform themselves sufficiently (by reading this thread: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...angerous-fraud )
...so as to be able cast an educated vote, Bill would (hopefully) eliminate the offending thread or at the very least, move it to the "Channeled and Other Controversial Material" subforum.
But Bill is the final authority and has the final word as to what stays on the forum and what goes, and though I have asked repeatedly why this travesty continues, I have as yet seen no plausible explanation as to why he allows the thread in question to be presented as a legitimate source of information, or why even advertisments for the news subscription scams are allowed to be posted there, which I thought was against forum rules. (See: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1600216 )
He commented once that he didn't see the harm, which left me dumbfounded.
Bill, if you really do not not see the harm even now, please pay more attention!!!
I don't doubt for a moment that there is sufficient information to persuade you that great harm is being done if you read some of the more recent posts on the "Kim Goguen is a Dangerous Fraud" thread.
(That thread title being one which I think you yourself upgraded to attract more attention.)
And those members who do see the harm, please make your voices heard enough to help bring about a much needed change.
I can only surmise that the reason the grift continues to thrive here has something to do with monetary contributions to the forum and that is very disappointing to say the least.
I also find it very disappointing that so few other members seem to care that this forum, which is supposed to be about helping to bring the truth out in a world that is being lied to more and more every day, is itself being so consistently compromised by blatant grifters.
Thanks for your attention to this matter. `

Posted by Ewan (here)


buttermilk

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
-------------

Hi, Guys, please listen up for a moment.

This thread is inspired by one of the recent 'disclosure prediction' threads that turned out to be yet another deliberate hoax.

This is not a shot any any individual member here: but I strongly feel that Avalon members should have a responsibility NOT to forward fake or hokey predictions or 'channeled messages' - which is currently happening at a rate of one or more a week.

We don't need this kind of nonsense in a climate of the times that could not be more serious. There ARE very critical things happening quietly in the world, and the real signals get lost in all the 'noise'.

Be very sure that this is intended.

Folks, I ask you: don't needlessly add to the noise.

I always wanted Avalon to be about quality rather than quantity: for people to be able to come here quickly and find a digest of good information and intelligent discussion.

To re-post any junk on YouTube or Facebook that catches our eye, thinking we're doing the members a service, might be a well-intended error of judgment. Please always use your intelligence and discrimination.

I'm no friend or fan of ATS, but the mods there immediately deleted a thread about the recent "The Agency" 'prediction' of a 'radioactive satellite' over Munich on 20 October, that was really a forecast comet - not only because it was clearly false, but because the writer urged that it must 'go viral'.

They were quite correct to censor this cheap nonsense and stop it in its tracks. Our collective alternative knowledge base is being deliberately infected by information of zero or negative value in the same way as our computers (or bodies!) can become infected with viruses.

The presence of the zero-value add-ons decreases our capacity to function optimally. In this case, we're rendered less able to evaluate authentic information. This is one reason why I find myself increasingly unsympathetic to hoaxes, hoaxers and other forms of knowledge devaluation, and have made some of the decisions I've made in the last year.

This is not in any way 'censoring the truth movement': the real truth is far more incredible and unbelievable than any fiction.

I want to make the real truth easier to see by flitering out the distractions - some of which are deliberate, and some of which are just naive.

In 2005-6 I was closely involved in the 'Serpo story'. It was a really valuable experience. Much of that was nonsense (and it got more and more ridiculous as the 'disclosure' was sabotaged from inside): but some was certainly true. It was worth discussing at first until it just became way too crazy and was eventually completely derailed. By that time I had abandoned it.

That's when I learned the priceless lesson that the truth in the alternative community is much more about PR than about actual facts. PR wins every time. And the insiders also understand this very well. They're masters at playing their cards.

So, don't help them win their game. Really intelligent analysis is the answer. But that takes time, and care, and real research. The insiders count on you not to bother to do all that.

They financed the creation of Facebook, and there's a good reason for their smart investment. The 'noise' is WAY amplified there. That's why I have no Facebook page, and never use it.

Indirectly related to this: please don't re-post YouTube videos with no comment, or with a simple statement like "Hey, Guys, look at this". I and many others will never watch a video unless someone tells me why I should spend the time. Please be smart and caring enough to summarize in your own words what the added value is.

Added value is what it's all about. If you're NOT adding value, then just keep reading. Though some of them are hard to find, Avalon has over 6,000 threads which contain enough good material to keep us all busy for a very long time.

My best wishes to all - Bill

[arwen]

Onawah, I agree. For personal reasons, I am not on Avalon very much - just periodically for a day or so every now and then - so I miss many of the nuances and issues that happen here.

But on this one, even though I do not follow the Kim Goguen thread any more, just seeing it appear prominently every time I do come here, is a jarring, discordant note. I have nothing personal against anyone who is on that thread, but I do have an issue with seeing Kim Goguen being showcased as though she is legitimate.

There is a definite inconsistency here in the standards applied to other nasty con artists, and Kim Goguen.

I would support a poll for members to cast their view. I can only speculate why more members do not speak on this issue - perhaps they do not want to hurt the feelings of those promoting the thread, or perhaps they just do not have the interest or time to comment on it, not seeing it as important. I don't know. A poll would help, I agree.

And I speak as one who briefly followed the Kim Goguen thread for a while, as it was very attractive and feel good but for me the red flags popped up quite soon and I realized it was just another grift. And a nasty one at that.

[wondering]

Onawah, Have you ever seriously considered putting this thread, or it's contributors, on your ignore lisit and calling it a day? I don't think any one of us is the final judge of truth for anyone else. If others choose to read and follow this topic, why are you so intent, even desperate, to stop them? Turn your outrage to something else that will make a difference...it's clearly not going to happen here with this thread.

[arwen]

Posted by wondering (here)
Onawah, Have you ever seriously considered putting this thread, or it's contributors, on your ignore lisit and calling it a day? I don't think any one of us is the final judge of truth for anyone else. If others choose to read and follow this topic, why are you so intent, even desperate, to stop them? Turn your outrage to something else that will make a difference...it's clearly not going to happen here with this thread.

For me, it is the inconsistency that is the issue. Absolutely no-one is the final judge on truth for anyone else, fully agreed. However, on that premise, Avalon should then open its doors also to supporters of Corey Goode, Simon Parkes, Charlie Ward, and any number of others out there, and also allow them to promote their work.

That is the problem here as I see it.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by arwen (here)

Posted by wondering (here)
Onawah, Have you ever seriously considered putting this thread, or it's contributors, on your ignore lisit and calling it a day? I don't think any one of us is the final judge of truth for anyone else. If others choose to read and follow this topic, why are you so intent, even desperate, to stop them? Turn your outrage to something else that will make a difference...it's clearly not going to happen here with this thread.

For me, it is the inconsistency that is the issue. Absolutely no-one is the final judge on truth for anyone else, fully agreed. However, on that premise, Avalon should then open its doors also to supporters of Corey Goode, Simon Parkes, Charlie Ward, and any number of others out there, and also allow them to promote their work.

That is the problem here as I see it.

Yes, it's an anomaly. The mods discuss it quite a lot.

My own position is that it's a pretty minor issue, and it'll all take care of itself in due course. It's so self-evident not only to me but to a LOT of people now that Kim Goguen is a sociopathic fraud, that pretty soon the truth will be widely accepted on the net, just as it is with Corey Goode and a number of others.

It's a little frustrating sometimes — and one day my dear friend Gwin Ru, a most highly intelligent, honest, caring and principled man, will see the light! ) But it's far from the top of the issues that I care about in the world, which almost all Avalon members understand well and very much agree about.

For me, that's far more important. The Kim G thing is rather a tiny immaterial sideshow in comparison.

~~~

The one main thing I still feel IS a problem on the forum (as some may gather from my occasional added-in mods' posts) is the proliferation of videos, some of which don't actually seem to be watched by the posters, and the frequently lack of any personal comment to accompany the video itself.

As I've said many many MANY times now, just dumbly copying a video title (which is all too often poor, misleading or inaccurate) is NOT enough to help a reader decide whether to spend yet another half hour or hour invested in something of little value.

It's lazy, it's a problem, it often comes from posters who wrongly believe that quantity = quality (it does not), and I think that's what may be our biggest issue right now.

[Valknut3301]

Well spoken, Bill, and a good reminder.

I personally have a sensitive b.s. meter, or I would like to think I do at least, so I tend to filter out a lot of what I read, both here and everywhere else on the interwebs. There seems to be a fair amount of nonsense on these forums, unfortunately, but this is true everywhere you look, even when you look within. The brainwashing runs deep and, to use Bill's own analogy, it's infectious.

There's a lot of emphasis on intelligence in our culture, which I would define as knowing a lot of useless details, but not enough is made of discernment, which I think is much more important.

That said, I've been wondering something for a while and this seems like the best place to mention it. I wonder how many members of the Avalon forum are professional misinformation artists, employed by the powers that (think they) be, here to muddy the waters and confuse the topics discussed. Of course, there's no way of knowing or finding out, it's just something I think about.
No platform of free discussion is immune to these vultures, not even these most respectable and well tended forums on which we now stand. Hell, for all you (the person reading this) knows, I'm nothing more than a bot, programmed to divert and confuse the issues at hand, and likewise you (anyone and everyone else with a username) might be a bot designed to respond in a manner I find pleasing.

I'll just keep practicing my discernment and try to keep from falling into the trap of belief. Because I would rather KNOW a thing than BELIEVE it.

[arwen]

While I am here, if I might make one possible compromise suggestion for a solution - the Kim Goguen thread is currently housed under "Global Financial News" - and for me, that is definitely misplaced. It is not real financial news, it is a mix of various things.

Looking at the various people, aside from the obvious grifters, other less controversial and more respected people such as Clif High and Jay Weidner are housed along with Corey Goode, Wilcock etc in the "Personalities in the alternative media" forum. At the very least, Kim Goguen is definitely one of the many "personalities in the alternative media". Which include the good, the bad and the ugly.

Perhaps that may be a better place for the thread?

Post update: Sorry I posted this before I saw Bill's reply above. Understood. (And by the way, I really like Gwin Ru too.)

[wondering]

Many years ago I questioned why there continued to be posts about Corey Good when he had been revealed, so to speak. Someone replied the posts would serve to warn off others about the deceit to be found there. I think the same thing applies here, so that's not a bad thing, if true.

[onawah]

That would be the case if the pro-Goguen thread contained any information revealing what huge scams are being proliferated under Goguen's name, but that is not the case.
Whlle the thread that I started gets very little attention from members by comparison, so non-members are not likely to even notice it.
It's all presented on the pro-Goguen thread as legitimate information, with the Avalon fans of Goguen buying it all as legitimate, so non-members will likely be concluding the same.
It bothers me so much because I have spent so many years (since 2010, and I was a member of the original forum as well) and so much time on this forum ( I was one of the "purple ribbon" frequent posters), and feeling like I was making a positive contribution in getting the truth out, in helping others (non-members especially) to develop more discernment and wake up to what is really going on in the world.
I no longer feel that way about Avalon and am in the process of retiring now because this case has not been following the same pattern as the other grifters who have been a focus here on the forum, rather, it is serving as a platform for a proven scammer.
It was quite easy in those other cases to see the information was false once sufficient evidence had been presented.
Like Arwen, I seldom post here anymore because so much of the pro-Goguen info is being presented here regularly now and I would not be surprised if a lot of non-members are being caught in Goguen's net because of Gwin Ru and the pro-Goguen team here on the forum.
That is very sad because the victims have been grifted out of so much money and so much volunteer time, all to no end.
If, as Bill claims, Gwin Ru is such a good friend, I am surprised that Bill would not be a lot more concerned about the mental health of a friend being duped by such a ridiculously obvious scammer, and would not be more actively rectifying that situation.
But I just don't buy that, and I think there is something else going on.
So that now the integrity of the whole forum is compromised, and it is no longer the reliable resource it once was as a result.
And that's a shame because there aren't nearly enough resources for getting the truth out, and the lies continue to multiply.

Posted by wondering (here)
Many years ago I questioned why there continued to be posts about Corey Good when he had been revealed, so to speak. Someone replied the posts would serve to warn off others about the deceit to be found there. I think the same thing applies here, so that's not a bad thing, if true.

[onawah]

Wondering, have you ever really looked at some of the posts on the "Kim Goguen is a Dangerous Fraud" thread, to see just how absurd her many claims have been over the years, such as this one: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1600697
It's been made abundantly clear again and again that her claims are not only ridiculous, but dangerously misleading, and if you knew someone who was being victimized by her many scams, wouldn't you want to wake them up so they wouldn't be further deluded and harmed?
Some of her victims have gone bankrupt, experienced family breakups and serious mental and emotional breakdowns because they have invested so much time and energy into her fraudulent schemes.
There hasn't been as much direct testimony as yet from the victims, most of whom are probably too humiliated to want to come forward, and would probably prefer to put it all behind them.
That is changing now, thankfully.
But it's clear these scammers on Goguen's team have caused a great deal of direct harm to a lot of people.
That's what concerns me most.
I don't find it so easy to be indifferent to the suffering of so many well-meaning but gullible people.

Posted by wondering (here)
Onawah, Have you ever seriously considered putting this thread, or it's contributors, on your ignore lisit and calling it a day? I don't think any one of us is the final judge of truth for anyone else. If others choose to read and follow this topic, why are you so intent, even desperate, to stop them? Turn your outrage to something else that will make a difference...it's clearly not going to happen here with this thread.

[pyrangello]

Maybe you should title a sub forum topic as the " POSSIBLY FORUM" MY grandfather told a joke to Jackie gleason one time in New York. He went up to Mr Gleason and asked him if he could tell him a joke while Mr Gleason was sitting in a booth at an upscale restaurant. He said sure.

My grandfather said there was a teacher in a class one day that suggested a word and wanted her students to put that word in a sentence. So the teacher said the word "banana". Johnny raised his hand and said "teacher,teacher I have a sentence". The teacher said "yes Johnny ". Johnny said "I have a sentence for your word, today my mom made me a lunch and I brought it to school and in my lunch bag was a banana". The teacher said "very good Johnny, that is correct." Then the teacher said let's try another word "how about the word POSSIBLY ? Can anybody use that word in a sentence?." Then little Amy raised her hand and said "teacher, teacher , I can use that word". The teacher said " yes amy" Amy said " ok teacher here's my sentence, yesterday I was at home and my older sister and her boyfriend went into the piano room and closed the door behind them , so I went up to the door and looked thru the keyhole to see what they were doing. I watched my sister and her boyfriend walk behind the piano , then as I kept looking thru the keyhole I saw my sister's underwear hit the floor and then her boyfriends underwear fell to the floor to and teacher POSSIBLY they were going to shxt on the piano"!

So there you have it the POSSIBLY thread.

Somebody said to me one time " LAUGH AND THE WORLD LAUGHS WITH YOU, CRY ENOUGH AND YOUR CRYING ALONE". b.s. threads have a tendency to go away by themselves and sometimes witha little nudge.

Onaway your very highly respected here and all you have stated is duly noted on my end especially when there are real damage done. My 2 cents

[onawah]

I wish that were the case with the pro-Goguen thread, but it's been on the forum for 4 years now, with 109 pages so far, and it's been getting enough nudges, with no lack of credible proof, so that it should have been gone already.

Posted by pyrangello (here)


Somebody said to me one time " LAUGH AND THE WORLD LAUGHS WITH YOU, CRY ENOUGH AND YOUR CRYING ALONE". b.s. threads have a tendency to go away by themselves and sometimes witha little nudge.

[Ewan]

Posted by onawah (here)
with the Avalon fans of Goguen buying it all as legitimate,

Not a huge amount from what I can see, most posts have three or four 'thanks'; which would suggest PA as a whole pays scant attention to it.
I do agree it is in the wrong sub-forum/section. Personally I would have it in the known hoaxes thread.

I feel there are much bigger problems, namely, as Bill perhaps suggested, is posting videos the poster has not even watched themselves!
What the heck would be the point in that, other than perhaps being the most prolific poster - or seeking the highest 'thanks' count?
Furthermore, if you have taken the time to watch it - surely you have the time to add a comment as to why others might also be interested?

Edit: Those you's are generic, not aimed at the reader.

[onawah]

The problem isn't how many members are watching and thanking the posts on the pro-Goguen thread, but the number of non-members who are watching it ( it's got close to half a million views) and being taken in by the scams, and just the fact that it's being presented here as legitimate information, and largely uncontested.
Just to be clear, I don't believe Bill's complaint about posting youtube videos without watching them first or commenting was addressed to me as I don't make a habit of doing that.
Though in certain cases, such as with the SuspiciousObservers posts, when the source is so well known that no explanation or comment is really necessary, I don't comment.
I was not bragging about being a prolific member of the forum, but making a point about why I am retiring, which is mainly due to Avalon continuing to provide a venue for the scammer Goguen.
I certainly agree with this! :"I do agree it is in the wrong sub-forum/section. Personally I would have it in the known hoaxes thread. "

Posted by Ewan (here)

Posted by onawah (here)
with the Avalon fans of Goguen buying it all as legitimate,

Not a huge amount from what I can see, most posts have three or four 'thanks'; which would suggest PA as a whole pays scant attention to it.
I do agree it is in the wrong sub-forum/section. Personally I would have it in the known hoaxes thread.

I feel there are much bigger problems, namely, as Bill perhaps suggested, is posting videos the poster has not even watched themselves!
What the heck would be the point in that, other than perhaps being the most prolific poster - or seeking the highest 'thanks' count?
Furthermore, if you have taken the time to watch it - surely you have the time to add a comment as to why others might also be interested?

[norman]

If pet niggles are the topic.

Here's my pet niggle. I hate the fact that so many thread titles are stupid (and pretty much useless ) thread titles that in many cases only came into being because they were a title of a naff video someone decided to start a new thread with.

Almost always, the thread title alienates me from the possibility of getting fruitfully engaged in what may well actually be a very important topic ( hidden in there somewhere ), but it's called something silly or much too narrowly descriptive.

[Bluegreen]

I was curious, and clicked back to find one contributor posting a 2-hour video after it went up to youtube "5 minutes ago". The next video I clicked on from this contributor featured a 24-year-old Richard Dolan. I thought, Oh. I see.

Another time, I was going to post, but didn't, a video by a well known researcher, because by some glitch, there was no sound. The next day another contributor posted it; I clicked on it and thought, Oh. I see.

[Sue (Ayt)]

Posted by onawah (here)
Whlle the thread that I started gets very little attention from members by comparison, so non-members are not likely to even notice it.
It's all presented on the pro-Goguen thread as legitimate information, with the Avalon fans of Goguen buying it all as legitimate, so non-members will likely be concluding the same.

The views on the KG thread, as with other threads, do not necessarily mean that folks view it as legitimate info. Views may sometimes be for entertainment value, curiosity, searching for clues in KG's rhetoric, trying to figure out who or what is pushing the info, or just for the pure flabbergast-factor of KG's highly audacious claims.

I also feel that the KG thread might be better suited in the personalities section of the forum, for now.

A pet peeve I have is when threads on a topic need to be split into two factions, like the pro and con KG threads as well as several others. This often happens when a couple of highly opinionated folks refuse to allow pro or con discussion on a thread that they feel strongly about. If all sides were able to be politely and calmly discussed on one thread, people could more easily be presented with both sides, and perhaps reach their own conclusions more readily.

But overall, I do trust that eventually karma does catch up, and the hoaxers and scammers do get taken down. Sometimes it is even hard to watch.