Interesting Passage from a David R. Hawkins Book

Seashore · 03-31-2009, 09:14 PM

I am reading the book Power vs. Force by David R. Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D. The book is about the levels of human consciousness.

I am struck by an example he presents to illustrate the different perspective he asserts is present at various levels of consciousness which he designates.

Here is the passage. It is quoted from pages 240 - 242:

"Imagine a 'bum' on a street corner: In an upscale neighborhood stands an old man in tattered clothes alone and leaning against the corner of an elegant brownstone. Look at him from the perspective of various levels of consciousness, and note the inconsistency in how he appears to different people and viewpoints.

From the bottom of the scale, at a level of 20 (Shame), the bum is seen to be dirty, disgusting, and disgraceful. From level 30 (Guilt), he'd be blamed for his condition: He deserves what he gets; he's probably a lazy welfare cheat. At 50 (Hopelessness), his plight would appear desperate, a damning piece of evidence to prove that society can't do anything about homelessness. At 75 (Grief), the old man looks tragic, friendless, and forlorn.

At a consciousness level of 100 (Fear), we might see the bum as threatening, a social menace: Perhaps we should call the police before he commits some crime. At 125 (Desire), he might represent a frustrating problem--why doesn't somebody do something? At 150 (Anger), the old man might look like he could be violent; or, on the other hand, one could be furious that such horrible conditions exist in our country today. At 175 (Pride) he could be seen as an embarrassment or as lacking the self-respect to better himself. At 200 (Courage), we might be motivated to wonder if there is a local homeless shelter--all he needs is a job and a place to live.

At 250 (Neutrality), the bum looks okay, maybe even interesting. "Live and let live," we might say--after all, he's not hurting anyone. At 310 (Willingness), we might decide to go down and see what we can do to cheer up that fellow on the corner; maybe we'd be motivated to volunteer some time at the local shelter. At 350 (Acceptance), the man on the corner appears intriguing: He probably has an interesting story to tell; he's where he is for reasons we may never understand. At 400 (Reason), he's a symptom of the current economic and social malaise, or perhaps a good subject for in-depth psychological study.

At the higher levels, the old man begins to look not only interesting, but friendly--and then lovable. Perhaps we'd then be able to see that he was, in fact, one who had transcended social limits and gone free, a joyful old guy with the wisdom of age in his face and the serenity that comes from indifference to material things. At 600 (Peace), he's revealed as our own self in a temporary expression."

Egg · 03-31-2009, 09:41 PM

Seashore, that made absolutely no sense to me what so ever. I failed in every sense of the word to grasp the emaning - So, i'll have to find the book and have a damn good read to see if it makes any more sense at all.

I enjoy expanding my mind and grappling with new thoughts and ideas, so i am sure this will be a learning curve.

Seashore · 03-31-2009, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Egg

Seashore, that made absolutely no sense to me what so ever. I failed in every sense of the word to grasp the emaning - So, i'll have to find the book and have a damn good read to see if it makes any more sense at all.

I enjoy expanding my mind and grappling with new thoughts and ideas, so i am sure this will be a learning curve.

I don't think you will like the book. Sounds like you have a different perspective.

alyscat · 03-31-2009, 10:26 PM

Egg, Hawkins states that there are levels of consciousness and that everything falls within them. He basically tests "ideas" or "things" or "people" using behavioral kinesiology, which was taught originally by Diamond.

He's defined the levels by name, and we all live at one level or another. So, if we test to
20, we're living at the level of Shame, and we see the bum as dirty, disgusting, and disgraceful.

at 30, we'd be viewing him from a level of Guilt

at 50, we'd be judging him from a level of Hopelessness, etc.

He goes all the way up, and once you get over the level of Love, as I recall, it totally changes the way you perceive life (and in this case, the bum).

I had all the Hawkins books until I got to the one where he was attributing some of the conservative commentators (Bill O'Reilly, comes to mine) really high levels of consciousness. At that point I put his books down and walked away. Some of the earlier books made more sense to me.

He did some interviews on Beyond the Ordinary dot net, and the thing I came away with was that the kinesiology he did was not "true" - in that some portion of the "accurate" answer required a certain amount of knowledge in the mind of the person doing the testing. It's been a couple of years since I listened to this, and it struck me almost immediately, but I don't have the details of the experience in my head anymore.

alys

vipassana · 03-31-2009, 10:34 PM

Hi Seashore
I hope you are well. That passage really resonates with me.

My life experience has been that when I was addicted to alcohol I was shunned by others and couldn't connect with people which was distressing. At the same time there were people who I would ignore. I understand this now.

When I started going to Alcoholics Anonymous it was amazing to be able to grow by talking and relating with others and be accepted and learn to accept others as they were.

Nowadays I always have time to stop and talk to my fellow human beings that are often shunned by others.

I have grown over the years through learning about the universe I inhabit. I've found Buddhist Philosophy and meditation very useful for changing my conscious wareness for the better.

Interesting passage thanks for posting it.

Seashore · 03-31-2009, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alyscat

...he was attributing... commentators (Bill O'Reilly, comes to mine) really high levels of consciousness.

alys

Seashore · 03-31-2009, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vipassana

When I started going to Alcoholics Anonymous it was amazing to be able to grow by talking and relating with others and be accepted and learn to accept others as they were.

He writes about the power of 12-step-based self-help groups in the book.

Antaletriangle · 03-31-2009, 11:08 PM

I don't mean to appear self righteous but i have applied level 600 several times to individuals who i've taken in when i had my house-some actually respected my efforts in housing and feeding them for free and a couple took the time and effort to trash my house after i had spent time on refurbishing it,new yacht varnished floors etc etc.
This occurred over several years with different folk.
What i am trying to say is i agree to the paragraph that you posted and i also feel it's wise to understand that when two people are concerned there's sometimes an alternative view from the subjects.
i.e. the Old guy on the street corner maybe looking at you with either opportunist eyes or with compassionate eyes,sometimes how the subject is viewed can mean nothing at all if the subject (old guy) has alternative agendas or feelings because it's always a two way street.
You may also be viewed by the old chap as either a victim or a victor in life.

vipassana · 03-31-2009, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antaletriangle

I don't mean to appear self righteous but i have applied level 600 several times to individuals who i've taken in when i had my house-some actually respected my efforts in housing and feeding them for free and a couple took the time and effort to trash my house after i had spent time on refurbishing it,new yacht varnished floors etc etc.
This occurred over several years with different folk.
What i am trying to say is i agree to the paragraph that you posted and i also feel it's wise to understand that when two people are concerned there's sometimes an alternative view from the subjects.
i.e. the Old guy on the street corner maybe looking at you with either opportunist eyes or with compassionate eyes,sometimes how the subject is viewed can mean nothing at all if the subject (old guy) has alternative agendas or feelings because it's always a two way street.
You may also be viewed by the old chap as either a victim or a victor in life.

Yes you're right it is a two way street. There is no way of knowing for sure how things will turn out when you try to help others. I don't know what the answers are? We want to be compassionate and give others a helping hand but often they can harm us.

It's quite a dilemma.

Antaletriangle · 04-01-2009, 12:03 AM

I feel as long as you've tried to help then that's the one-i have no regrets about doing what i did even though my house was trashed-in retrospect i did what i could i think that's all that counts above the physical.

tone3jaguar · 04-01-2009, 02:59 AM

As the numbers go up in his designed scale, the distortion caused by society become less and less. That is the lesson of the selection. The book is a useful tool for anyone wanting to use learn how to use any form of divinition to determine things or retrieve information. The muscle testing methods he uses in the book can be done by anyone with little or no practice. They are a method of divinition. I use similar methods with pendulum dowsing. Patato Potato

orthodoxymoron · 04-01-2009, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antaletriangle

I don't mean to appear self righteous but i have applied level 600 several times to individuals who i've taken in when i had my house-some actually respected my efforts in housing and feeding them for free and a couple took the time and effort to trash my house after i had spent time on refurbishing it,new yacht varnished floors etc etc.
This occurred over several years with different folk.
What i am trying to say is i agree to the paragraph that you posted and i also feel it's wise to understand that when two people are concerned there's sometimes an alternative view from the subjects.
i.e. the Old guy on the street corner maybe looking at you with either opportunist eyes or with compassionate eyes,sometimes how the subject is viewed can mean nothing at all if the subject (old guy) has alternative agendas or feelings because it's always a two way street.
You may also be viewed by the old chap as either a victim or a victor in life.

How do you help someone without hurting them? How do you help someone without them hurting you? The answer is to not look up to anyone...or look down on anyone. Don't help people...and don't harm them. Treat everyone alike. Live and let live. Don't pre-judge. When you 'help' someone...there is the implication that you are superior and they are inferior. They may hate you for this. They may attempt to steal from you or harm you to get more out of you because they think you are a sucker or because they hate you. There are obviously exceptions to these crude rules. Giving someone a job may be one exception. Then you give them an oportunity to regain their sense of self-worth or 'pride of earnership'. Work = Worth. We are supposedly trying to 'help' the Iraqi people. How many Iraqis and Americans(and others) have died so far...or have been horribly injured? How much money has been wasted on this crusade? I once asked a Native American shaman what the U.S. should do to assist his people. The answer was 'leave us the f*** alone!'

03-31-2009, 09:14 PM	#1
Seashore Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 3,564	Interesting Passage from a David R. Hawkins Book I am reading the book Power vs. Force by David R. Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D. The book is about the levels of human consciousness. I am struck by an example he presents to illustrate the different perspective he asserts is present at various levels of consciousness which he designates. Here is the passage. It is quoted from pages 240 - 242: "Imagine a 'bum' on a street corner: In an upscale neighborhood stands an old man in tattered clothes alone and leaning against the corner of an elegant brownstone. Look at him from the perspective of various levels of consciousness, and note the inconsistency in how he appears to different people and viewpoints. From the bottom of the scale, at a level of 20 (Shame), the bum is seen to be dirty, disgusting, and disgraceful. From level 30 (Guilt), he'd be blamed for his condition: He deserves what he gets; he's probably a lazy welfare cheat. At 50 (Hopelessness), his plight would appear desperate, a damning piece of evidence to prove that society can't do anything about homelessness. At 75 (Grief), the old man looks tragic, friendless, and forlorn. At a consciousness level of 100 (Fear), we might see the bum as threatening, a social menace: Perhaps we should call the police before he commits some crime. At 125 (Desire), he might represent a frustrating problem--why doesn't somebody do something? At 150 (Anger), the old man might look like he could be violent; or, on the other hand, one could be furious that such horrible conditions exist in our country today. At 175 (Pride) he could be seen as an embarrassment or as lacking the self-respect to better himself. At 200 (Courage), we might be motivated to wonder if there is a local homeless shelter--all he needs is a job and a place to live. At 250 (Neutrality), the bum looks okay, maybe even interesting. "Live and let live," we might say--after all, he's not hurting anyone. At 310 (Willingness), we might decide to go down and see what we can do to cheer up that fellow on the corner; maybe we'd be motivated to volunteer some time at the local shelter. At 350 (Acceptance), the man on the corner appears intriguing: He probably has an interesting story to tell; he's where he is for reasons we may never understand. At 400 (Reason), he's a symptom of the current economic and social malaise, or perhaps a good subject for in-depth psychological study. At the higher levels, the old man begins to look not only interesting, but friendly--and then lovable. Perhaps we'd then be able to see that he was, in fact, one who had transcended social limits and gone free, a joyful old guy with the wisdom of age in his face and the serenity that comes from indifference to material things. At 600 (Peace), he's revealed as our own self in a temporary expression."

03-31-2009, 09:41 PM	#2
Egg Banned Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 727	Re: Interesting Passage from a David R. Hawkins Book Seashore, that made absolutely no sense to me what so ever. I failed in every sense of the word to grasp the emaning - So, i'll have to find the book and have a damn good read to see if it makes any more sense at all. I enjoy expanding my mind and grappling with new thoughts and ideas, so i am sure this will be a learning curve.

03-31-2009, 10:26 PM	#4
alyscat Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Washington state Posts: 743	Re: Interesting Passage from a David R. Hawkins Book Egg, Hawkins states that there are levels of consciousness and that everything falls within them. He basically tests "ideas" or "things" or "people" using behavioral kinesiology, which was taught originally by Diamond. He's defined the levels by name, and we all live at one level or another. So, if we test to 20, we're living at the level of Shame, and we see the bum as dirty, disgusting, and disgraceful. at 30, we'd be viewing him from a level of Guilt at 50, we'd be judging him from a level of Hopelessness, etc. He goes all the way up, and once you get over the level of Love, as I recall, it totally changes the way you perceive life (and in this case, the bum). I had all the Hawkins books until I got to the one where he was attributing some of the conservative commentators (Bill O'Reilly, comes to mine) really high levels of consciousness. At that point I put his books down and walked away. Some of the earlier books made more sense to me. He did some interviews on Beyond the Ordinary dot net, and the thing I came away with was that the kinesiology he did was not "true" - in that some portion of the "accurate" answer required a certain amount of knowledge in the mind of the person doing the testing. It's been a couple of years since I listened to this, and it struck me almost immediately, but I don't have the details of the experience in my head anymore. alys

03-31-2009, 10:34 PM	#5
vipassana Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 69	Re: Interesting Passage from a David R. Hawkins Book Hi Seashore I hope you are well. That passage really resonates with me. My life experience has been that when I was addicted to alcohol I was shunned by others and couldn't connect with people which was distressing. At the same time there were people who I would ignore. I understand this now. When I started going to Alcoholics Anonymous it was amazing to be able to grow by talking and relating with others and be accepted and learn to accept others as they were. Nowadays I always have time to stop and talk to my fellow human beings that are often shunned by others. I have grown over the years through learning about the universe I inhabit. I've found Buddhist Philosophy and meditation very useful for changing my conscious wareness for the better. Interesting passage thanks for posting it.

03-31-2009, 11:08 PM	#8
Antaletriangle Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: U.K. Posts: 3,380	Re: Interesting Passage from a David R. Hawkins Book I don't mean to appear self righteous but i have applied level 600 several times to individuals who i've taken in when i had my house-some actually respected my efforts in housing and feeding them for free and a couple took the time and effort to trash my house after i had spent time on refurbishing it,new yacht varnished floors etc etc. This occurred over several years with different folk. What i am trying to say is i agree to the paragraph that you posted and i also feel it's wise to understand that when two people are concerned there's sometimes an alternative view from the subjects. i.e. the Old guy on the street corner maybe looking at you with either opportunist eyes or with compassionate eyes,sometimes how the subject is viewed can mean nothing at all if the subject (old guy) has alternative agendas or feelings because it's always a two way street. You may also be viewed by the old chap as either a victim or a victor in life.

04-01-2009, 12:03 AM	#10
Antaletriangle Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: U.K. Posts: 3,380	Re: Interesting Passage from a David R. Hawkins Book I feel as long as you've tried to help then that's the one-i have no regrets about doing what i did even though my house was trashed-in retrospect i did what i could i think that's all that counts above the physical.

04-01-2009, 02:59 AM	#11
tone3jaguar Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: www.altimatrix.com Posts: 1,525	Re: Interesting Passage from a David R. Hawkins Book As the numbers go up in his designed scale, the distortion caused by society become less and less. That is the lesson of the selection. The book is a useful tool for anyone wanting to use learn how to use any form of divinition to determine things or retrieve information. The muscle testing methods he uses in the book can be done by anyone with little or no practice. They are a method of divinition. I use similar methods with pendulum dowsing. Patato Potato