Camelot interview with Dane Tops

[MaikaNz]

I find it funny how hubbard uses the good nature and curiosity of people to lure them into these churches and then zap.. ready to wear puppet.


Ron hubbards own son called him a fraud.
French govt convicted him of fraud in 1952
Banned from britain 1959 stating that scientology was socially harmful
Ron hubbard was openly racist

Gerry Armstrong is one of the most important people in Scientology’s history. As L. Ron Hubbard’s personal archivist, he unleashed the documented evidence that shows Hubbard lied about virtually every aspect of his life.

Creator of the e-meter Volney Mathison:

In 1964 Mathison stated: "I decry the doings of trivial fakers, such as scientologists and the like, who glibly denounce hypnosis and then try covertly to use it in their phony systems.

It seems that ron hubbard was rotten to the core long before any of the sheep joined the organization. Many, many high ranking scientologists have left scamtology and revealing the atrocities, questionable practices and fraudulent deals which is condoned and enforced by hubbard and the sea-org (militaristic arm of scientology).

ENEMY: SP Order. Fair game.

May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.
— HCO Policy Letter of 18 October 1967, Issue IV, L. RON HUBBARD

This is who ron hubbard is.

www.xenu-directory.net
www.xenutv.com
www.xenu.net

[jonathan Burke]

So this doesn't start into a flame war, it doesn't take long for someone to do exactly what was covered in the Camelot interview, and that is attack.

The technology works and has even saved my life through it's application in an incident at gun point. Had I not been trained, I would not be here today. I can say this without reservation.

Hubbard has a lecture called "Why people don't like you." It's part of the Clean hands Congress, which the name has been changed current day. Go figure..

Hubbard has always said, and I find this to be the case, if it's true for you, it's true for you. if it isn't don't use it, go somewhere else. I am a trained auditor and have seen miracles performed as a standard daily practice. Miracles as usual basically. Correct application is everything. If you do that with this information you will not be disappointed.

You can find something negative about anything if you have that ambition.

The technology works period. If you don't like the thread go elsewhere at the click of a button. No one is selling anything here, it's a free sharing of data in a safe place. (sic)

I know who you are and what you are doing maikaNz. [I would like to know - Moderators]

As far as finding the books guys, well done! See if it works for you.

It will if you apply it standardly.

Concerning the Fair Game reference, the current Church does use that and in the sense it was used on this forum, it was never intended. It was cancelled in the early seventies by Hubbard. Later to be covertly used by the current regime.

Arthur, the son mentioned above, was a plant from the day he was born. Put there to create problems from the inside by the powers that be. I was there, I know. Were you?

As far as any other negative criticisms, the proof is in the pudding, the tech works. The internet teems with negative data on the subject because it works and "they" don't want anyone to have it. Period.

It's an enemy line from the get go. If it helps people, that's all that matters.



Here to help.

JB

[MaikaNz]

Wow.. There is someone on youtube that used almost that exact same speech, right down to the "It's true for you" statement.

The next statement I'm expecting from you should be:

"All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
-- Arthur Schopenhauer


I am Anonymous. Anonymous consists of everyone that has lost someone to scientology through disconnection or death. We are not a terrorist group or paid actors like scientology claims. We are not an organization, we are the people, we are the public.

I lost a childhood friend of 20 years to scientology. She turned from a beautiful, loving, caring woman to a scientology fanatic. She disconnected from me after me asking her to do background research on the religion. Thats some powerful brainwashing to break a 20 year friendship. I'm not the lone case. Scientology has been responsible for destroying families all over the world.

Stop the Cancer


Fair Game Policy was reinstated in 1983.

For all those people on this forum that regularly practice discernment and independent thought, go to:

www.xenu-directory.com
www.xenu.com
www.xenu.net

[Gnosis5]

Yeah, I know who he is too, interesting you brought that up. I wasn't going to say anything: I'm still processing some fixed dualities that have LRH's name attached to them (long story). It all works out for good :-) If Ron had not compiled so much data for we Westerners I'd probably be spending a lifetime drinking tibetan tea and eating crackers, studying the Vedas. Oh, wait a minute, I'm doing that right now!! Tea and crackers, I mean, lol.

cheers!
gnosis

Originally Posted by jonathan Burke

So this doesn't start into a flame war, it doesn't take long for someone to do exactly what was covered in the Camelot interview, and that is attack.

The technology works and has even saved my life through it's application in an incident at gun point. Had I not been trained, I would not be here today. I can say this without reservation.

Hubbard has a lecture called "Why people don't like you." It's part of the Clean hands Congress, which the name has been changed current day. Go figure..

Hubbard has always said, and I find this to be the case, if it's true for you, it's true for you. if it isn't don't use it, go somewhere else. I am a trained auditor and have seen miracles performed as a standard daily practice. Miracles as usual basically. Correct application is everything. If you do that with this information you will not be disappointed.

You can find something negative about anything if you have that ambition.

The technology works period. If you don't like the thread go elsewhere at the click of a button. No one is selling anything here, it's a free sharing of data in a safe place. (sic)

I know who you are and what you are doing maikaNz. [I would like to know - Moderators]

As far as finding the books guys, well done! See if it works for you.

It will if you apply it standardly.

Concerning the Fair Game reference, the current Church does use that and in the sense it was used on this forum, it was never intended. It was cancelled in the early seventies by Hubbard. Later to be covertly used by the current regime.

Arthur, the son mentioned above, was a plant from the day he was born. Put there to create problems from the inside by the powers that be. I was there, I know. Were you?

As far as any other negative criticisms, the proof is in the pudding, the tech works. The internet teems with negative data on the subject because it works and "they" don't want anyone to have it. Period.

It's an enemy line from the get go. If it helps people, that's all that matters.



Here to help.

JB

[MaikaNz]

Nope I'm not Mark Bunker.

[Gnosis5]

Thank you for representing the opposite end of an ancient fixed polarity. It gives me direction and impetus for my clearing work.

best,
gnosis

Originally Posted by MaikaNz

I find it funny how hubbard uses the good nature and curiosity of people to lure them into these churches and then zap.. ready to wear puppet.


Ron hubbards own son called him a fraud.
French govt convicted him of fraud in 1952
Banned from britain 1959 stating that scientology was socially harmful
Ron hubbard was openly racist

Gerry Armstrong is one of the most important people in Scientology’s history. As L. Ron Hubbard’s personal archivist, he unleashed the documented evidence that shows Hubbard lied about virtually every aspect of his life.

Creator of the e-meter Volney Mathison:

In 1964 Mathison stated: "I decry the doings of trivial fakers, such as scientologists and the like, who glibly denounce hypnosis and then try covertly to use it in their phony systems.

It seems that ron hubbard was rotten to the core long before any of the sheep joined the organization. Many, many high ranking scientologists have left scamtology and revealing the atrocities, questionable practices and fraudulent deals which is condoned and enforced by hubbard and the sea-org (militaristic arm of scientology).

ENEMY: SP Order. Fair game.

May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.
— HCO Policy Letter of 18 October 1967, Issue IV, L. RON HUBBARD

This is who ron hubbard is.

www.xenu-directory.net
www.xenutv.com
www.xenu.net

[MaikaNz]

You are welcome. Its always good to see both sides of the story. Discernment and skepticism is healthy.

[jonathan Burke]

Here's the deal, differentiate from the current regime, and the technology. I am not the current regime. I am alienated from two of my 5 kids due to being expelled. I don't blame the technology. That is a wrong target. Heck I don't blame the people in the Church who are worker bees. I don't blame anyone.

I take responsibility for being there and communicating. There is no such thing as a victim.

If it works it works. If it doesn't for you or you blame the Illuminati for corrupting the Church that's your purogative.

Sanity is the ability to recognize similarities and differences. I am not, nor are any of these people on this Board, the Suppressives who use an altered policy to alienate people from their loved ones.

These are two different things. People on this board and IRS controllers running a pirated Philosophical movement, two different things.

As for Anonymous, that caused more problems than solutions. Thus not the greatest good for the greatest number. I don't hide behind a screen name or call myself anonymous which is a generality. I have the confront to say who I am and help people.

I am empathetic to your predicament as I am there myself but I will not cut myself off from or deny others the ability to make up their minds with ALL the information.

People can think for themselves in some circles still.

JB

[MaikaNz]

I understand brother. I love you and all living beings and I am in no way making this personal to you or your beliefs. Beliefs in themselves are harmless, but the practices and abuses is what I and Anonymous are against. You are our brothers and sisters.

I've had too many instances of harassment from members of the church snooping around our private property, taking photos through our windows, phone calls day and night, spam email and at one point taking photos of my kid leaving school. We have learned to keep a low profile to avoid being stalked. This stuff is just creepy compared to our picketing rallies.

[jonathan Burke]

Thank you.

This stuff works. I KNOW this. The group itself is the fastest shrinking religion in the world due to their abuses. They became that way because it's a dwindling spiral when you do the things the higher ups (Illuminati and IRS Lawyers) have done to their staff and their public. I was on staff, I saw the misapplication, reported it and got hammered for trying to do what Hubbard really said to do.

I got paid $6 a week for a 90 Hour work week, sometimes not at all. I got blamed for doing the right things that were at that time good policies.

I don't blame anyone because in the end it was all worth it. I have saved peoples lives as an auditor many times, no kidding.

Thank you again for the acknowledgment.

I am sorry to hear of your loss, really, I fully duplicate how you feel.

JB

[MaikaNz]

90 hour week for no pay ouch! I'm glad you are safe. Thank you for your heart felt sympathies to my loss. I am proud to call you friend.

[Gnosis5]

That is what I call "speaking to the hand"!

joy,
gnosis

Originally Posted by jonathan Burke

Here's the deal, differentiate from the current regime, and the technology. I am not the current regime. I am alienated from two of my 5 kids due to being expelled. I don't blame the technology. That is a wrong target. Heck I don't blame the people in the Church who are worker bees. I don't blame anyone.

I take responsibility for being there and communicating. There is no such thing as a victim.

If it works it works. If it doesn't for you or you blame the Illuminati for corrupting the Church that's your purogative.

Sanity is the ability to recognize similarities and differences. I am, nor are any of these people on this Board, the Suppressives who use an altered policy to alienate people from their loved ones.

These are two different things. People on this board and IRS controllers running a pirated Philosophical movement, two different things.

As for Anonymous, that caused more problems than solutions. Thus not the greatest good for the greatest number. I don't hide behind a screen name or call myself anonymous which is a generality. I have the confront to say who I am and help people.

I am empathetic to your predicament as I am there myself but I will not cut myself off from or deny others the ability to make up their minds with ALL the information.

People can think for themselves in some circles still.

JB

[jonathan Burke]

Speaking to the hand? Clarify Dr. Mc Coy...

JB

[Gnosis5]

Originally Posted by jonathan Burke

Speaking to the hand? Clarify Dr. Mc Coy...

JB

Actually I prefer to be called "Queen Mother of Peace and Glory", but I'll play along, lol.

I referred to the avatar of the hand palm.

[Gnosis5]

I like this link -- it is new:


http://lrh.myftp.org/

[twelvestrand]

Originally Posted by Gnosis5

I like this link -- it is new:


http://lrh.myftp.org/

Link isnt working for me?

[Gnosis5]

Originally Posted by twelvestrand

Link isnt working for me?

Appears the link is broken????

[Gnosis5]

Bashar: Questioner experiences meltdown in Scientology



I experienced a happy meltdown when I first came into Scientology as I knew nothing I was being confronted with fit into my mental templates about the mind or the spirit, and I knew my life would never be the same again if I followed this path. Definitely pushed my IQ up several notches from the books and lectures (which are all free now).

Wish I had followed it with more personal integrity, but I would still follow it today, only with more personal integrity and outside the formal Church.

[Gnosis5]

Another defection group -- in California:

http://freezone-tech.info/

[Gnosis5]

The Auditor's Code 1954

From Professional Auditor's Bulletin No. 38

1. Do Not Evaluate for the PRECLEAR

"The main difficulty of the preclear is other-knowingness. An auditor auditing a preclear has before him someone whose last stronghold of owned knowingness is his engram bank and various mental phenomena. As much as possible, the preclear should be permitted to discover the answers to this phenomenon through the process of auditing. .... The auditor is working from a body of knowledge as to how all minds and spirits function. ....The auditor should confine himself to giving the proper auditing commands and engaging in enough "dunnage" (extra and relatively meaningless talk) to maintain a two-way communication line.

The early writings were the best

[Fredkc]

A tale of two friends.

I'll begin with a close personal friend of my 1st wife and I. Reserved, brilliant, a person who needed a highly structured life, though he never reveled in it. His ability to see where the planet's dispositions would lead it were truly clairvoyant. 30 years later, his "seeings" are still accurate, and on target.

Sadly, his need for structure, exactness was often carried by him like an open sore. It was there that the C of S sunk their hooks.

A few months later, broke, stressed, he informed them it was time to "take a break". He was in need of some perspective, and... he also needed to make the money flow "back up", if he was to continue. We'd had no contact with him during those months, until his "break".

What followed was the most despicable, systematic destruction of someone's life one could imagine. They attacked through his friends, neighbors, family, even his ability to work. His family with our help, at times, went as far as to move him out of one residence, in the middle of the nite, and relocate him. Rarely did it last 2 weeks, before they had found him again, and the harassment continued.

His "crime"? He needed some space. Had not spoken "against" the org, just needed money, and some time to continue. Their efforts over the next two years made this impossible. To this day I still believe that the C of S was in part responsible for his successful efforts to get away from them forever. Unable to live any form of civil life, he committed suicide.

My friend was not mad, he was driven there, if such a thing is possible. 25 years ago, when this happened, if I could have located the people who had done this, I would have happily sent them along after him.

I don't think I have shared this with 4 people in my entire life, so understand that the subject, and the "Church" (dear god what a name) isn't something I am fond of.
_________________________________________________

I just have to bring up the fact that the practice of calling naysayers "subversives" has got to be the most telling form of self-identifying psychosis available in the English language.

_________________________________________________

I have a friend of some 15 years. I have worked with him professionally off and on. He and I have probably spent 6 - 15 hours every month at each others houses, meals, sporting events, and lots of conversation. He is a degreed physicist, and engineer, I would say he is both intelligent, and honest. A good friend.

Yeah... a Scientologist. He was an auditor for them, in fact, and also shows some skill in what he's called their "touch system" for relieving pain and other things. I must also add that he has no association with the C of S, and has not in the 15 years I've know him. In fact he has never mentioned them at all, only the "process". But, not a meeting goes by where he does not respond, at least twice, with the words, "You know, Ron says that...".

And for 15 years, I have found few premises brought up in this fashion, that I disagreed with, but I have always internally cringed because of my experience with the org.

Yes, 15 years is a long time to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Frankly, I've yet seen anything that couldn't be gained through other means. Also, until a post in Bill Ryan's thread, I never looked to "other" orgs who used the LRH stuff, nor knew they existed. I knew many groups existed but most seemed, at quick glance, to be nothing but "protest" or "refusenik" groups, so I had no interest.

So, now I know "something else"
Thanks to Bosr (thank you) I have copies of 20 books, to look through. Perhaps a chance at "getting a bit smarter" on the base subject. Perhaps engage in some deeper conversations with my friend on it.

And perhaps begin a process of separating some knowledge from a disgusting method of using it, and in the process get a handle on some forgiveness.

Thanks for the thread. There's my rant, and rave.

Fred