Zacharia sitchin is not legitimate

[Brinty]

Originally Posted by spiritual_wanderer

You know, I can't say whether Sitchin is disinfo or legit. But I find him and his work very interesting and therefore, I'll read it sometimes. No one should blindly follow anyone. But its important to have info of all kinds out there available to let everyone decide what is for them and not. Since I believe in the ancient astronaut theory, I find his intriguing.

I agree with you spiritual wanderer. It is best not to dismiss a theory out of hand just because it doesn't fit in with your own concept of "reality" or "truth'. It is advisable to keep an open mind - but not so open that you lose your brains when you bend over. Having to clean egg off your face after taking a public stand against a particular theory only to find that same theory was a fact, could lead to a lot of embarrassment.

Like the scientists many years ago who ridiculed people who claimed that stones had fallen from the sky. "Stones? Falling from the sky? Come on now, what's holding these stones up in the sky? Don't talk such nonsense!" Imagine their shock when a shower of meteorites occured during one of their conferences. I reckon an awful lot of frantic face cleaning went on after that.

[Doom]

Originally Posted by Brinty

I agree with you spiritual wanderer. It is best not to dismiss a theory out of hand just because it doesn't fit in with your own concept of "reality" or "truth'. It is advisable to keep an open mind - but not so open that you lose your brains when you bend over. Having to clean egg off your face after taking a public stand against a particular theory only to find that same theory was a fact, could lead to a lot of embarrassment.

Like the scientists many years ago who ridiculed people who claimed that stones had fallen from the sky. "Stones? Falling from the sky? Come on now, what's holding these stones up in the sky? Don't talk such nonsense!" Imagine their shock when a shower of meteorites occured during one of their conferences. I reckon an awful lot of frantic face cleaning went on after that.

With comments like this I fear some of us are missing the point of the thread. Sitchin's work hasn't been dismissed or ignored by most of it. It has been thoroughly disporven. (And I don't mean by mainstream debunkers, I mean by truthseekers). Of course we have to keep an "open mind" to things even if they don't fit our concept of reality. (but not too open, because we need to keep our minds guarded, and not open to psyops programming). But keeping that "open mind" doesn't make fantasy real. That doesn't make counter-intelligence that is designed to disable the victim, truth.

Idenifying counter-intelligence and seperating fact from fiction is a must in the process of waking up. Step 1 is awareness, but Step 2 is understanding. The understand stage takes the longest, and is often where most people get caught up, and end up chasing their imagination around in circles, because that's where the most counter-intelligence pysops operations are working. Just becoming aware of this "new world order" is not enough, it's very easy to become confused and buy into falsified information when trying to understand and lead off into the wrong direction. We must understand it first to fix it, which leads us Step 3, which is once we understand, then action can be taken, in whatever form it needs to be taken - and it will be self evident at that point what that is - whether it be waking others up, or whatever.

[spiritual_wanderer]

There are truthseekers of all kinds and they often disagree with each other. Who's to say one is right or the other wrong? People can have a different interpretation of the same data.

Red flags go up when one person is saying they have the answers. What I respect is people like David Icke who say, ok here is some information I have to share with you, now it is up to you to decide if it's for you or not.

Project Camelot is like that. They don't claim to have the answers, they're just trying to share the enormous wealth of ideas with the masses. Is all of their info correct? I would be suspicious if anyone claimed it was.

It is up to each individual to take what works for them and discard the rest. We can even learn from "disinfo."

[Doom]

Originally Posted by spiritual_wanderer

There are truthseekers of all kinds and they often disagree with each other. Who's to say one is right or the other wrong? People can have a different interpretation of the same data.

Red flags go up when one person is saying they have the answers. What I respect is people like David Icke who say, ok here is some information I have to share with you, now it is up to you to decide if it's for you or not.

Project Camelot is like that. They don't claim to have the answers, they're just trying to share the enormous wealth of ideas with the masses. Is all of their info correct? I would be suspicious if anyone claimed it was.

It is up to each individual to take what works for them and discard the rest. We can even learn from "disinfo."

I agree generally, but you have to draw a line, you can't just believe things because someone put the information out there and said, "decide if it's for you or not".
Many things can be proven - just because things can be interpreted differently, doesn't make all those interpretations correct. People can agree to disagree, but that still doesn't make fantasy truth. And when you look to the origins of a lot of this information(such as sitchins), it is not factual and was purposely designed, put out, and pushed, to mislead the public. It also makes truth associated with fiction, so that when you try and communicate to others about truth, right away they think of all the fictional lies attatched to the term "conspiracy" like reptilians. You see, it discredits the truth when it is assoiciated with fiction. We as truthseekers, must work together, to expose the counter-intelligence, because we are losing many minds to it, that think they are waking up. We still have a good chance to save those minds since they were at least willing to have the courage to not to go along with the normals.

also, I must comment that you must be very careful with David Icke ( http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...9&postcount=19 ), he puts out a lot of truth to suck you in, but then spins it into outerspace with fiction and new age philosophy. Whether he does it on purpose or is just mislead himself is another question(i would suggest a little of both), but please, all I am asking really is for people to at least look into the some of the information and links I have provided on the new age and counter-intelligence. AS well, I'm not saying to not look into David Icke's information, but at least get all sides of the story.

I feel the same about project camelot. I don't doubt that Kerry and Bill might be genuine, but that doesn't validate their information, or their sources' information.

Most people in this "truth movement" are eating everything up that's put out there without relizing that some of the information out there that is supposedly freeing them is just trapping them into a another cage. In fact there is an entire conspiracy culture, put out there by the establishment, created from the top down, for the prupose of discrediting the real truth. Be aware.

[elirien]

Originally Posted by Doom

I agree generally, but you have to draw a line, you can't just believe things because someone put the information out there and said, "decide if it's for you or not".
Many things can be proven - just because things can be interpreted differently, doesn't make all those interpretations correct. People can agree to disagree, but that still doesn't make fantasy truth. And when you look to the origins of a lot of this information(such as sitchins), it is not factual and was purposely designed, put out, and pushed, to mislead the public. It also makes truth associated with fiction, so that when you try and communicate to others about truth, right away they think of all the fictional lies attatched to the term "conspiracy" like reptilians. You see, it discredits the truth when it is assoiciated with fiction. We as truthseekers, must work together, to expose the counter-intelligence, because we are losing many minds to it, that think they are waking up. We still have a good chance to save those minds since they were at least willing to have the courage to not to go along with the normals.

also, I must comment that you must be very careful with David Icke ( http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...9&postcount=19 ), he puts out a lot of truth to suck you in, but then spins it into outerspace with fiction and new age philosophy. Whether he does it on purpose or is just mislead himself is another question(i would suggest a little of both), but please, all I am asking really is for people to at least look into the some of the information and links I have provided on the new age and counter-intelligence. AS well, I'm not saying to not look into David Icke's information, but at least get all sides of the story.

I feel the same about project camelot. I don't doubt that Kerry and Bill might be genuine, but that doesn't validate their information, or their sources' information.

Most people in this "truth movement" are eating everything up that's put out there without relizing that some of the information out there that is supposedly freeing them is just trapping them into a another cage. In fact there is an entire conspiracy culture, put out there by the establishment, created from the top down, for the prupose of discrediting the real truth. Be aware.

Well I mostly agree with you but your comparison of David Icke and Project Camelot doesn't ring with me so to speak. First of all David Icke is not "a style of truth seeking". He is just a guy who gathered a lot of research of others like every researcher in this field that makes his research prone for disinformation that the likes of Sitchin and Maxwell put out there. His thoughts on reptilians are not unique to him. There are a lot of people talking about them, even Bill Deagle (if you've watched the last project camelot interview with him). I am not sure if I should label "the reptilians" as fiction because I don't have any means to disprove them. It could be a disinfo project perhaps but that has to be researched and documented.

Project Camelot are just two people who interview whistle-blowers or am I getting something wrong here. I mean I have heard tons of bs. from some whistle-blowers (mostly regarding Planet X and Sitchin) but I didn't judge Project Camelot for these testimonials as I have not judged David Icke for Arizona Wilder and Credo Mutwa (not that I am claiming they are bs. but they can't put proof on the table like Cathy O'Brien which would be a good candidate to interview by the way).

--Rant--
The main thing here that creates problems is, people like to "give their back to someone with full power of their trust" and "people tend to like to get hung up upon those people and the belief associated with them even if they are proven wrong in some aspect". These aspects make it impossible for finding truth especially if you are debating with guys that say "o.k. that is your truth and this is mine". I mean I read such sentences over and over and it still makes me very sad. It just reeks of programming.

Even though we don't know much and we can only perceive 0.05% or something of the universe through our eyes there still is much fact to prove something to go around. There are definite truths people which are embedded in many things from ancient religion to modern disinfo agents. We have to filter it from these sources and at least pick up a damn book to try to prove the claims made by any one of them. Well enough ranting. You've got my point.

--Rant Over--

The conspiracy culture is definitely an important subject since we are getting to become a new society almost with all this ground crew and project venus going (not that I want to be in any one of those societies besides for debating). I think that most people who think they are "awakened" will just jump at the idea of "a solution" which is of the "problem-reaction-solution" cycle that David Icke likes to talk about very much. These in effect will create a new post-industrialization mass who this time are not for nationalization but globalization disguised under the new age and projects like the venus project who both boil down to the Georgia Guide Stones and of course the mystery religions.

[Doom]

Originally Posted by elirien

Well I mostly agree with you but your comparison of David Icke and Project Camelot doesn't ring with me so to speak. First of all David Icke is not "a style of truth seeking". He is just a guy who gathered a lot of research of others like every researcher in this field that makes his research prone for disinformation that the likes of Sitchin and Maxwell put out there. His thoughts on reptilians are not unique to him. There are a lot of people talking about them, even Bill Deagle (if you've watched the last project camelot interview with him). I am not sure if I should label "the reptilians" as fiction because I don't have any means to disprove them. It could be a disinfo project perhaps but that has to be researched and documented.

Project Camelot are just two people who interview whistle-blowers or am I getting something wrong here. I mean I have heard tons of bs. from some whistle-blowers (mostly regarding Planet X and Sitchin) but I didn't judge Project Camelot for these testimonials as I have not judged David Icke for Arizona Wilder and Credo Mutwa (not that I am claiming they are bs. but they can't put proof on the table like Cathy O'Brien which would be a good candidate to interview by the way).

--Rant--
The main thing here that creates problems is, people like to "give their back to someone with full power of their trust" and "people tend to like to get hung up upon those people and the belief associated with them even if they are proven wrong in some aspect". These aspects make it impossible for finding truth especially if you are debating with guys that say "o.k. that is your truth and this is mine". I mean I read such sentences over and over and it still makes me very sad. It just reeks of programming.

Even though we don't know much and we can only perceive 0.05% or something of the universe through our eyes there still is much fact to prove something to go around. There are definite truths people which are embedded in many things from ancient religion to modern disinfo agents. We have to filter it from these sources and at least pick up a damn book to try to prove the claims made by any one of them. Well enough ranting. You've got my point.

--Rant Over--

The conspiracy culture is definitely an important subject since we are getting to become a new society almost with all this ground crew and project venus going (not that I want to be in any one of those societies besides for debating). I think that most people who think they are "awakened" will just jump at the idea of "a solution" which is of the "problem-reaction-solution" cycle that David Icke likes to talk about very much. These in effect will create a new post-industrialization mass who this time are not for nationalization but globalization disguised under the new age and projects like the venus project who both boil down to the Georgia Guide Stones and of course the mystery religions.

Well, I pretty much agree, except on some of the details, such as david icke, project camelot, project venus, etc..

I don't want to argue back and forth about them, since I have already provided information that opens doors to show how these projects/researchers are counter-intellgence. But I'll just leave it with that as to not argue about specifics. We'll have to agree to disagree for the time being. My point is to just make sure we research both sides of the story, just because the people leading these projects, etc, may be genuine, but that does not validate the information. I'm not saying it isn't possible that some of the information is true, but when you look deeper into the origins of the information, and conspiracy culture creation from the establishment, questions have to be raised. They mix truth with fiction and push it so that people discredit the truth - and some of these projects/researchers, genuine or not, have bought into a lot of it - and have effectively become tools for the establishment, by disabling the minds of the victim by spinning the truth into outterspace.

If you research some of the links I have provided throughout the thread, it should at least open some doors to the reptilian, and alien dis-info. I never said Icke started the reptilian information or was the only one. He is just a superstar who champions it. It is an establishment created culture, well funded. Even in the middle ages they used the same techniques to do with making the public believe in reptilian/demon creatures. You can read about all of this and more if you take the time to do research on the new age religions and culture creations involving cia,mi5,mi6, crowley, blavatsky, etc. Like I said before I have provided links that will at least get one started on some of this info.

[realitydesign]

ZS is a pioneer. He was one of the first to get this ball rolling 30 years ago. He is not disinfo - if anything he may be off on a few points but he himself believes and stands behind his work. Read through the guy's credentials.

At the very least he has done so much to open the minds of humanity greatly.


I believe his basic premise: earth history is riddled with ET (if you can call them that) involvement. Is EVERY detail correct?... probably not but give the guy a break...

[elirien]

Originally Posted by Doom

Well, I pretty much agree, except on some of the details, such as david icke, project camelot, project venus, etc..

I don't want to argue back and forth about them, since I have already provided information that opens doors to show how these projects/researchers are counter-intellgence. But I'll just leave it with that as to not argue about specifics. We'll have to agree to disagree for the time being. My point is to just make sure we research both sides of the story, just because the people leading these projects, etc, may be genuine, but that does not validate the information. I'm not saying it isn't possible that some of the information is true, but when you look deeper into the origins of the information, and conspiracy culture creation from the establishment, questions have to be raised. They mix truth with fiction and push it so that people discredit the truth - and some of these projects/researchers, genuine or not, have bought into a lot of it - and have effectively become tools for the establishment, by disabling the minds of the victim by spinning the truth into outterspace.

If you research some of the links I have provided throughout the thread, it should at least open some doors to the reptilian, and alien dis-info. I never said Icke started the reptilian information or was the only one. He is just a superstar who champions it. It is an establishment created culture, well funded. Even in the middle ages they used the same techniques to do with making the public believe in reptilian/demon creatures. You can read about all of this and more if you take the time to do research on the new age religions and culture creations involving cia,mi5,mi6, crowley, blavatsky, etc. Like I said before I have provided links that will at least get one started on some of this info.

I agree with you to disagree then I loved that sentence about how they put a veil on truth by ignoring it and the ignorant sheople that follow them put the same veil on their heads. I'll have a look at your links Doom and I have looked through people's research on the new age (some radio programs and articles from cooper, frank lordi, chris white) If I have the time I want to read Constance Cumbey's and Blavatsky's books on the matter to at least see what people get so fascinated about. I just see the same pattern in all of this. If someone gets closer to the truth something else tries to cover up that fact and focus you/me to some crazy bs that you can't control or reach. It's also interesting to see that these people defend their stand point that they researched for 40 years these things. I mean you have to be quite the blazing moron or get paid for in some aspects to do the same errors for 40 years.

Take Care