Excellent presentation Paul, thanks for the detailed explanation.Quote:
Posted by Paul
Only, I thought we were moving from Pisces into Aquarius not Capricorn into Aquarius?
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Excellent presentation Paul, thanks for the detailed explanation.Quote:
Posted by Paul
Only, I thought we were moving from Pisces into Aquarius not Capricorn into Aquarius?
Ah - yes - you're right - we move through the constellations backwards - I'll fix my post - thanks!Quote:
Posted by panopticon
I'll take a big map with something to say with it over another video to watch any day. BTW. I saved the big picture.Quote:
Posted by Paul
Hi Paul, and Bill too. You all know I'm not a big 2012 cheerleader, I don't foresee imminent natural disasters, or people floating off into the cosmos(LOL). But, many people ARE noting certain energetic phenomena, myself included. It's common knowledge that just our little old moon massively affects things from oceans to people, especially when it's full. So what I'm having a hard time grasping here is why the changing of the Ages, and/or rare galactic alignments, should have no impact on us whatsoever.Quote:
Posted by Paul
These were of massive importance to the ancients, and those astronomer/priests were pretty savvy fellows. Isn't there a middle ground here for science and spirituality to come together on these matters?
Cheers,
Fred
Yes, I'm afraid they are. It's all a New Age myth with zero astronomical and physical substance or fact behind it.Quote:
Posted by write4change
21 December 2012 has become (for a minority of the world's population!) rather like Christmas Day -- imbued by cultural and societal (and global control) factors to be entirely artificially important.
But Jesus was not born on that day at all. It's just a belief system which folk subscribe to because most people want to believe something and create meaning in their lives. We humans do this all the time -- and 21 December 2012 is just another human-created ritual.
It's interesting to research where the "21 December" date came from. Much of the blame (and I use that word deliberately) lies with Terence McKenna, an inspired but basically loony acidhead who widely publicized the date in a book he wrote back in 1993. The original 21 December date came from Mayan researcher Robert Sharer.
Prior to Sharer and McKenna's publication of their agreed idea of the end of the Mayan Calendar date, scholars had widely disagreed. Even last year, respected researcher Carl Calleman stated that the calendar "really" ended on 28 October (2011), and this too was widely touted. Of course, nothing happened on that day at all.
But the beliefs about 21 December, widely shared in the New Age community, make it "real" in societal terms. The rest of the physical universe doesn't know about that, though. It's purely a New Age cultural phenomenon, and nothing more. It will pass.
Let's look forward to 1 January 2013 (as I've often written) -- and then we can put all the hysteria behind us and focus on important matters. Dark Forces, whose interests and agendas are unwittingly supported with many otherwise able and perceptive people embracing the massive diversion and distraction, are having a field day. Next year it's important that we all get on with the job in hand.
I would ask not whether they come together (which I suspect means whether or not there are some substantial and rather direct energetic effects on our spirit or culture from the rather modest astronomical alignments) but rather, if indeed there are some energetic effects on our spirit or culture, what is their cause?Quote:
Posted by Fred Steeves
Perhaps, for example, the savvy ones are aware of subtle cycles of change, ever present, due to astronomical orientations, and have chosen to tune into, leverage and amplify these effects through their own various actions affecting humanity.
If the local moon worshipers schedule a raid on the local cemetery every 28 days, it's not like the moon caused those grave stones to be over turned, but rather the energy of those moon worshipers caused that, using the moon's cycles as a trigger.
The moon is a poor example here, as I'll wager it has substantially larger effects on earthly living beings than whether earth happens to titled with its North pole away from the sun or not, just at the annual point that earth passes once again on the side of the sun furthest from the galactic core.
Well, based on the paper I linked in Post #19 above, I think that there does occur on Dec 21 a once in 26,000 year, mildly interesting, combination of the earth being on the "back side" of the sun at its winter solstice just as a few planets are in some "cross" alignment, as viewed from earth.Quote:
Posted by Bill Ryan
But, yes, that modest alignment does not justify all this commotion.
OK, so "most" of the astronomy is correct, except for this perfect alignment of Sirius , the Pleiades, the Sun, earth etc. The "Grand Cross" alignment would be more accurate. In any case, the energetic influence of the celestial bodies is accepted and is not just a construct of new age philosophy.Quote:
Posted by PaulWell, based on the paper I linked in Post #19 above, I think that there does occur on Dec 21 a once in 26,000 year, mildly interesting, combination of the earth being on the "back side" of the sun at its winter solstice just as a few planets are in some "cross" alignment, as viewed from earth.Quote:
Posted by Bill Ryan
But, yes, that modest alignment does not justify all this commotion.
Thanks Paul, for not throwing the baby out with the bath water on this one. Sure, the 2012 meme is full of mythology and hyper commercialization, and disinfo, but this does not negate the astrology or the energetic effects.
More background on that:Quote:
Posted by Bill Ryan
Quote:
Posted by Amzer Zo
I expect the Native Americans, particularly the Hopi, the Mayans and other indigenous peoples would disagree with the more skeptical views here, as there has long been evidence in their cosmologies (not to mention the ancient Vedas) of these times we are in now being exceptional and a possible portal to a kind of Golden Age, although there is some disagreement there as well, certainly.
Great thread continuation. As I mentioned in my first post here, the difficulty with what the guy is presenting, and that is also the difficulty with the entire concept is the idea that Sol orbits Alcyone which also orbits Sirius which orbits the central sun of our galaxy (Or IS the central sun of our galaxy, according to the presenter), which in turn orbits the central sun of the Universe.
He equates the revolution of Sol around Alcyone as 26,000 years, the revolution of Alcyone around Sirius as 225 million years, and he has no number for the revolution of Sirius around the galaxy's central sun, or that around the universe's central sun.
The presenter here states all of that as fact. When there is no mainstream scientific evidence that there is even a such thing as a central sun. According to mainstream science, the centers of galaxies are instead black holes. Personally, I find the Schwartzchild Geometries - black hole/white hole alternation - to be a viable theory regarding what lies at the center of galaxies, as, aesthetically, it is really yin/yang and I appreciate the whole "As Above So Below" hermetic formulation, but that is not the mainstream understanding. I've posted here before on cosmic geography, Sol and its system's movements around the galactic core and 2012.
The fact that modern science has nothing to say at all about whether Sol-system is involved in relatively micro-cosmic orbits around other stars (Sol around Alcyone, Alcyone around Sirius, Sirius around the galaxy's central sun, the galaxy's central sun around the universe's central sun) says nothing about whether all of this is true or not - other than H*LL NO, it's all just Doomsday Drivel - it's just that there is no actual, concrete and factual information or corroboration regarding these types of macro-scale movements.
The heliocentric view of Sol system - which is really what this guy is proselytizing - is an ancient one, the first Western astronomers and geographers were quite certain that Earth and Sol system were integrally correlated to the movement of the cosmos. What I find interesting, is that as science increases its understanding of reality, this potentiality remains viable, despite all of the theories of recent decades and years regarding dark energy and matter. There does indeed seem to be some relationship between the earth on its 23.5 degree ecliptical tilt, the flat plane of the galaxy and the flat plane of the universe, as the evidence seems to be pointing out (quote below). That modern physicists are in a conundrum about it, and treat it as a dark secret of science, not talking about it, only adds fuel to the idea that what they know is really just theoretical and quite limited when compared to what ancient cultures knew and that science always seems to corroborate these days when the technology evolves to the point where our instruments detect 'proof' of whatever new theory they come out with to explain what seems to have been known many thousands of years in advance.
From the website The Third Culture, the article, "The Energy of Empty Space that isn't Zero":
So, to bring it back to the OP and the video in question, it was indeed an entertaining trip down the rabbit hole and the presenter did make the information accessible and did so in an exuberant and novel manner, doing his best to explain the metaphysical aspect of the 21st that is currently beyond the ability of modern science to fully understand. Whether it is true or not, as he states in the video, "Don't believe me, but also, don't believe anything else anyone's ever told you either."Quote:
But what is intriguing to me is that while everything is consistent with the simplest models, there's one area where there's a puzzle. On the largest scales, when we look out at the universe, there doesn't seem to be enough structure — not as much as inflation would predict. Now the question is, is that a statistical fluke?
That is, we live in one universe, so we're a sample of one. With a sample of one, you have what is called a large sample variance. And maybe this just means we're lucky, that we just happen to live in a universe where the number's smaller than you'd predict. But when you look at CMB map, you also see that the structure that is observed, is in fact, in a weird way, correlated with the plane of the earth around the sun. Is this Copernicus coming back to haunt us? That's crazy. We're looking out at the whole universe. There's no way there should be a correlation of structure with our motion of the earth around the sun — the plane of the earth around the sun — the ecliptic. That would say we are truly the center of the universe.
The new results are either telling us that all of science is wrong and we're the center of the universe, or maybe the data is imply incorrect, or maybe it's telling us there's something weird about the microwave background results and that maybe, maybe there's something wrong with our theories on the larger scales. And of course as a theorist I'm certainly hoping it's the latter, because I want theory to be wrong, not right, because if it's wrong there's still work left for the rest of us.
As much as I want humanity to go through an enlightenment, I think a lot of theories as you provided have been made up. However, with any subject on this planet exists mostly disinformation with a tiny drop of truth. There are many angles you can take on 2012, and you listed a few but there are so many more. Given McKenna and many others blowing smoke, what about project looking glass? Montauk? The Hopi Prophecy that has been right about the 8 of 9 signs of the emergence of the 5th world? If all of those I mentioned are also hogwash then we all might as well consider 2012 to be one of the biggest hoaxes in history.Quote:
Posted by Bill RyanYes, Im afraid they are. It's all a New Age myth with zero astronomical and physical substance or fact behind it.Quote:
Posted by write4change
21 December 2012 has become (for a minority of the world's population!) rather like Christmas Day -- imbued by cultural and societal (and global control) factors to be entirely artificially important.
But Jesus was not born on that day at all. It's just a belief system which folk subscribe to because most people want to believe something and create meaning in their lives. We humans do this all the time -- and 21 December 2012 is just another human-created ritual.
It's interesting to research where the "21 December" date came from. Much of the blame (and I use that word deliberately) lies with Terence McKenna, an inspired but basically loony acidhead who widely publicized the date in a book he wrote back in 1993. The original 21 December date came from Mayan researcher Robert Sharer.
Prior to Sharer and McKenna's publication of their agreed idea of the end of the Mayan Calendar date, scholars had widely disagreed. Even last year, respected researcher Carl Calleman stated that the calendar "really" ended on 28 October (2011), and this too was widely touted. Of course, nothing happened on that day at all.
But the beliefs about 21 December, widely shared in the New Age community, make it "real" in societal terms. The rest of the physical universe doesn't know about that, though. It's purely a New Age cultural phenomenon, and nothing more. It will pass.
Let's look forward to 1 January 2013 (as I've often written) -- and then we can put all the hysteria behind us and focus on important matters. Dark Forces, whose interests and agendas are unwittingly supported with many otherwise able and perceptive people embracing the massive diversion and distraction, are having a field day. Next year it's important that we all get on with the job in hand.
I truly like your explanations Paul. But, being a neophyte in the matter, I feel like I am reading Carmody right now. LOLQuote:
Posted by Paul
I will have to reread your post, cause I find it interesting and want to make sure I follow.
Thanks
All right, Flash, hope this can help:
... and a very intersting tidbit from the site where the above comes from (http://www.aloha.net/~johnboy/Preces.htg/precession.htm):
The "Sun" (son) born of a Virgin (Virgo).
is (also) the Sun as it precesses out of the sign of Virgo into Leo, the sign of the King."
The Sphinx, of the Giza Plateau in Egypt, is a monument to the "birth" of the Sun (circa 10,500 BC).
Accordingly, there won't be another "King" born out of a "Virgin" for another 13,000 years... :) That's a lot of time for many more religions to maintain the myth.
Edit
There, finally found a diagram that shows it:
Thank-you for the fine compliment :).Quote:
Posted by Flash
Well, the extent and nature of those energetic effects seems subject to some debate :).Quote:
Posted by gripreaper
I have both feet rather firmly planted in the present 3D "seems real to me" physical world, so I'm biased that way. But from my view, the energetic effects are being substantially overplayed and/or misrepresented in much of what we read regarding 2012.
===
P.S. -- In other words, it seems (from the above) that Bill would say there are no such energetic effects that are of special interest for Dec 21, 2012, whereas I would say that there are no such effects that I've noticed (while admitting to be a bit thick skulled on such matters.)
Me too : )Quote:
Posted by modwiz
Thanks, Paul
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post599285
.......
Let's look forward to 1 January 2013 (as I've often written) -- and then we can put all the hysteria behind us and focus on important matters. Dark Forces, whose interests and agendas are unwittingly supported with many otherwise able and perceptive people embracing the massive diversion and distraction, are having a field day. Next year it's important that we all get on with the job in hand.
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post599304
And that is that...and I feel more and more will step into their 'real' job descriptions and really get to work to make real changes...hard workers getting together and getting the job done once and for all!
.......
And Thank You so much too, Flash...for energizing this info and discussion : )
To get an idea on the confusion reigning on the subject:Quote:
Posted by Paul
Quote:
Secrets of the Sphinx by Andrew Raymond is an amazing act of syntheses and one of the more informative books to be published in recent times. By reading this review and other pages linked from this site, you will discover that our scientists divide the 25,800-year cycle of our Earth into twelve ages instead of twelve months, and that the Great Sphinx in Egypt marks the "Happy New Year" of this cycle. The 25,800-year cycle of our planet with its four seasons is called the Great Year, the Platonic year (Plato's year), or the precession of the equinoxes in a comprehensive dictionary.
The four seasons of the great year are marked by Egypt’s four minor sphinxes, Ezekiel's four heads of the beast, Revelation’s four cherubim, and astronomy’s Taurus, Leo, Aquarius, and Scorpio (Abraham's Eagle) constellations.
http://www.revealer.com/web_img_review/current2.gif
Our Current Position in the Great Year
(Cross takes 25,800 years to make one turn through the twelve ages)
Our astrological birth signs no longer coincide with the sun's location in the constellations of the Zodiac because of precession. Even the Tropic of Cancer and the Tropic of Capricorn are now the Tropic of Taurus and the Tropic of Scorpio when we observe the sun on the solstices? Our astrologers and map makers neglected to update our present position in the cosmos for over 2,000 years. We are not the astrological birth signs the newspapers and a majority of the astrologers proclaim we are!
The only potential modifier I can toss into this conversation, is the idea of the 'electric universe'. In-depth experience has taught me that astrology does indeed work, exactly as that advertized. And that electrical function, as we know it and with some modifiers, does cover not just the skies, the heavens, but atomic function. Long story, which I cannot get into...but I AM doing cutting edge work in these areas.
It is with such an eye, I view alignments with planets, other stars, and the given galactic quadrants.
My primary point of interest, here, is the idea that the solar system is presently entering or (recently began) moving through an 'interstellar dust cloud' of sorts. Since it is, IMO and IME, an electric universe and this system or star system is in electric balance...the addition of dust of any kind, WILL change the charge level balance. This is indisputable (dust added to a highly stressed field condition). (current flow goes up, heating, field suppression or collapse)
The sun appears to be changing from a yellow sun to a more blue sun and this may be accelerated or caused by or related to this electric charge balance change (due to the addition of dust in the solar system). I pre-stated my position and understanding of astrology, and this adds in the effect of changing or re-balancing human awareness and/or psychology.
Then there is galactic energetic changes, but not sudden ones. Astrology can be and generally is spot on*, and down to the hour, if one has proper birth time/location information. Basically, the further out the planet from the sun, the slower it moves, the greater the time frame or area of time in which a predicted event may occur in the life. Then things like far away stars..mean slow long term changes. The galactic center as an alignment? Lightning strike? No. slow term, long term? Yes. Change....outside of (longer than) a given lifetime? Probably.
If there is any field-level charge-change or frequential change due to alignment with the galactic core it sure isn't going to happen like a lightning strike in the dark of night.
It is the is supposed dust cloud that is heating the planets and changing the charge level and balance of the solar system. That..has my attention.
Such a thing could cause global warming, like the record shows it has on all the planets. And that the charge change due to dust could disrupt the solar flare cycle of 11 years, and suppress the sun's flares..which it appears to have done.
AND, that it could cause the sun to suddenly correct, with massive flares (big burps!), during planetary alignments, both astronomical and astrological. Which is what has happened, from my observations.
Now, if this particular supposed 'alignment' could cause massive flares? Well.... I've not even bothered to check.
~~~~
*I mean 85%+ accuracy. I'm not using a weasel word. Put a gun in my face and the almighty kills me if I lie or am wrong...and I STILL say 85%+ accuracy. That, alone, as a fact, brings a whole new concept of the idea of human relation to the heavens. It is, at the least, a dimensional window or angular component issue, and this appears to be connected to electric value, as in atomic particle..all the way up to astronomical charge values. As above, so below. Same-same. Time is local, as relativity states. As in: charge value angular component differential. Time is not a fundamental, it is directly connected/related to particle charge value differential. (I could spend months explaining this, and have, all over this forum)
Oh yes, the idea that the astrological signs are wrong. Well, the interpretations of how the alignments affect the people are, for the very larger part..modern, so the names are not as relevant as one might think. As long as the descriptors and timing are correct. And the timing of the events (alignments or 'aspects') is done according to modern star/planet charts. So, there is hardly room for error, there, in those areas.
Thanks to all of you on this thread at this very moment. ENOUGH!