The male abuse of women

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Hi, All: this important topic has been opened up, with quite strong feelings, elsewhere on the forum. It clearly deserved its own thread.

I've copied five other posts over to get the thread rolling -- three of them very slightly edited so the focus of the post is fully on the topic of this new thread. (Please feel free to re-edit the posts to add to the focus.)

To kick the discussion off (and to offer the important context that women are far from the only subject of male abuse) here's the transcript of my interview with Lucia René in 2011. It was a good interview.

http://projectavalon.net/lang/en/lucia_rené_unplugging_the_patriarchy_3-10-11_en.html

Here's the interview itself, which was called Unplugging the Patriarchy:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=e4vPyClAHqs

And here are some extracts:

BR: It’s very clear to me that a lot of men nowadays, they don’t know how to be. They’ve lost the rule book. They’re confused. They don’t know what’s expected of them. They don’t know how to be whatever it is to be truly masculine, because they’re confused by Hollywood movies and archetypes and comic strips and a whole bunch of stuff that’s been coming at them, ever since they were kids. And they know that that’s not right. But they don’t know what is right.

And, in my experience, there are a lot of men who go around with as much of an act as they can get together, to keep it together from day to day. And if you strip all that away, they’re deeply confused.

And, at a risk, I would be saying, that those deeply confused men are really hoping that they will encounter some woman who will be able to help them with this. And... But here, we’re... This is such a complicated and convoluted and sometimes highly-charged area, that, I think, that many of those men don’t find the high quality of woman who can understand all of this, in the way that you can.

BR: It’s this violence and oppression and compulsive control that we’ve been talking about, that are characteristics of what you call the patriarchy. Women are not the only victims. Look at the slave trade. Look at the holocaust. Look at... all kinds of... genocide. Look at colonialism. Look at the way that the British went into Africa and shot every lion they could find, just because they could. Just because they could.

But that aggression, that desire for control, or that kind of bullying, on this enormous scale wasn’t discriminating in its targets, was it? I mean, it wasn’t just women. It’s just men trashing the entire planet and every culture they could lay their hands on. Look at the Conquistadors. Look at the Incas. Look at what happened to the native Americans. I mean... men have got a lot to answer for. And not all of it is about women.

BR: But, I think a lot of men... I mean, it would be an overstatement to say they’re frightened of women. But that kind of man that I was trying to describe earlier, who’s actually confused, who doesn’t know exactly who he is, how he’s meant to be in society, how he’s meant to be a father or as a husband or as a partner or as a citizen. He doesn’t really know what’s expected of him any more. Is he meant to be macho? Is he meant to buy roses every day? What’s he meant to do? Is he meant to be the breadwinner? Is he meant to be tough? Is he meant...? Men don’t have a manual for this.

And then, sometimes, in certain circumstances, certainly, that man is actually really quite frightened of a woman who seems to be more balanced than he is and who might be able to offer him advice or to support him or to correct him or to point things out that he doesn’t know. These are all very hard for the male ego to take.

To myself and all women....

No one is making a statement defending the great injustices that women have suffered and continue to suffer. But do not little boys suffer them too? Are not men victims of their training? Can we lift the identity of sexual orientation and see beyond?

We are standing at the edge of the biggest rift on the planet. The male/ female division. Will we allow this to further split us or use this opportunity to reach for COMPASSION for all beings?

We are Spirit and have most likely experienced and participated in being male/ dominate/ abusers ourselves. As we peel away the barriers that have been used to block our access to Essential PURE Self we need to confront this reality. Ironically my meditation this morning took me into the billions of years of incarnations we have experienced. We are all culpable if that is the word… We are not male or female, only having chosen certain roles in different lifetimes.

Jim, Bill, John thank you for I see the beauty of your Spirits and know you would do no harm. This comes from the awe of living in the NOW moment.

With love and ONE heart COMPASSION,
Christine

I have a very dear friend who works in Thailand, Vietnam and Cambodia with victims of human trafficking. Most of them are young girls. They are sold by their families. The value of women is low, next to cattle. A chain of poverty keeps that supply side going. What is one child when there are many to feed? The beast of trafficking is surged by foreign buyers who come to this area for product, fresh meat, fresh sex. It is the material world in a low cruel form. The girls and boys are kept drugged and scared and with little self esteem. My friend A is a retriever. He goes in pretending to be a customer and then convinces the oldest girl to round up the others and get out. There are more slaves on the planet now than ever.

I'm sure there are young women who like older foreign men and it all works out great.

But the reality of what is happening on our planet regarding Men and Women and the base disregard for the Divine Feminine is hard to take day and night. I'm not even going to get into the media issue. If you can't see it, I don't have the energy to deal right now. Suffice to say I remember my mother saying when a woman reaches a certain age she becomes invisible.

Blame? Men and Women both. Parents. Have to end the cycle. Respect and nurture your daughters to not NEED but Desire that which brings forth love, creativity, joy, pleasure....beyond the material, within the heart, within our selves. Same with our sons. love and pleasure must be born inside and then shared. But right now we are dealing with People as Contraband. Possessions. Ownership. Slavery. Women mutating themselves in a Stockholm Syndrome of perceived physicality conformity. Must look like a barbie doll or I am not desirable. Must be sexy or what value do I have? The propaganda is outrageous and it starts with childrens toys. Disney Nazi Reptilians.

Life is short but it feels long. The suffering of the many reaches crescendo. Masses are manipulated by SEX and VIOLENCE, root chakra chains to keep them from evolving. This is the key.

When I first arrived in Costa Rica, which is just as notorious as Thailand for attracting elderly single men looking for younger women, my next door neighbor was one such man...a retired American who was once in charge of the platform from which the first US satellite, Telstar, was sent into space.

And he had married a Costa Rican woman who was 35 years younger than him, she was my landlady's daughter, and they had a baby daughter aged three. He had taken care of a whole clan, and it worked out well for all the people involved...a win-win all around.

While there certainly are cases where the women are victimized, more often than not it is the north American men, who get taken for a ride....I have seen it happen several times. Whole families gang up behind their young daughters to figure out how to strip the foreigner of his life's savings.

He taught me how to use my first computer (since he was my next door neighbor, and I knew few English speakers back then, being new to Costa Rica.) He was already in his late seventies when his daughter was born. He died before she was ten, but everyone was well taken care of. The daughter now has her own law firm, and is very bright young lady.

One American friend who was from LA and had come to teach film making at a university in Costa Rica had fallen in love only to be dumped a short while later, and he couldn't understand why. He told me the relationship had gone so well, and he had met her family and everyone was getting along great...

And when I had to explain to him that it was because he didn't own a car, he clicked, as he remembered how that issue had come up a few times in conversation.

Even though she apparently loved him, the rest of the family probably told her that she was crazy to hang out with a gringo who couldn't afford a car. Meanwhile he was the sweetest, kindest person, and he really wanted to do something for a third-world country.

So I know that all stories are different, and to generalize in these matters, based on zero evidence, is just not right.

We have some very powerful and intelligent women here. Is there a club or something here promoting women's rights? I would have no problem with it being exclusively for the gals.

I say this because it's a damn shame how bad it is in Afghanistan. They simply are not treated as humans over there, they are a currency to be traded. It's disgusting. I have a friend who served in Kabul and he said you'd never see women/girls there. When they would drive by a house (with high walls) the girls would sprint inside as fast as they could because if a man saw them looking at the troops they'd beat her mercilessly. We're talking full grown men beating girls of any age.

There's a documentary somewhere out there about prostitutes who live in a brothel and it's quite simply an exemplification of hell.

I don't think a man like myself can sympathize as much as a woman can, so the women around here would have a bigger fire in their bellies than I. Why not take all this energy and turn it into something good? I'm not saying form a charity or whatever, but really get crackin' and find some answers.

I personally don't feel its anyone's [male-NAME HERE] fault. It was the bringing up of an extremely soar subject that is obviously alive in kicking in a lot of female Hearts---I know it did in mine. It doesn't take any particular person to bring it up. Its always there (male perspective of females) and unfortunately it has become more of a source of contention for me as I get older.

It doesn't always have to be a personal issue for a female---all one has to do is SIT BACK AND OBSERVE. Ive observed and experienced enough to the point if someone were to tell me ill never have another "romantic committed" relationship for the rest of my life, ill be more then AYE OKAY with it!

Love another male as a friend, coworker..etc etc is great with me!...you are another human being. Just do not expect me to play a twisted role with you, a role that's been set up since god knows when. Things are different in different parts of the globe, ofcourse it is not as blatant in your face suppression here in US as other areas. But just because its more COVERT and presented in a way where it appears less oppressive..certainly does not make it nonexistent

All I could say, that if a male became a female right now IS THE ONLY WAY THEY WOULD REALLY GET IT...
And ill say im sure this goes for women as well!! Overall in my view, its a gender conditioning over a life that effects BOTH SIDES

Neither side should be DEPENDANT on the other...and I think female dependency goes STEPS further in its conditioning. As a young girl, I was expected to see the goal of ...you will get married and the man will help take care of you. This programming, I have recently had to work very hard to crush!!
So when you have an already debilitated set up of how relationships should go---which falters in MOST cases, the female is set back tht much further from not being able to support herself, or more importantly being prepared for such an event from the getgo like males are

Gee, just lost my post on the other thread. Posted as it was being closed.

Frustrating.:p

Quote:

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Posted by Flash

Gee, just lost my post on the other thread. Posted as it was being closed.

Frustrating.:p

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Sorry!! My sincere apologies. There's absolutely no way for the mods to know if someone is drafting a post while a thread is being closed. Please continue here. The topic itself (of this new thread) is very important indeed.

In the military, I was once asked why I pretend not to know what my job is -- no ****.
At the time, I felt insufficiently trained, and that was my excuse.
But then I realized, if I really wanted to do a "good" job, I would have expressed more drive to succeed.
I would not have just backpedaled and tread water, if I really cared about other people --

So, it's kind of hard for me to see males in general as "insufficiently trained" rather than "insufficiently concerned".
I agree in a way that yes, they could use better role models, but -- what of the thousands of generations of abused women who successfully raised kids?
I mean, where do they get their examples? Some women weren't even allowed outside the house once married.
So, saying that an external example, or the lack thereof, is the reason men fail -- it kind of blows things out of proportion.

People don't need a huge crowd in order to tell right from wrong.
But maybe in a Hollywood culture, they need a huge crowd in order to feel "good about themselves".
Classic Narcissism. And I know this because I, too, have fallen into the trap of self-love at times.

The "need" for examples, at some point beyond babyhood, is really a need for an average, and the hope that one places above average.
I don't think it has anything to do with love or caring.

Lots of people tend to be stuck on the math of life and the irony there is, they aren't particularly good at math either.

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In my opening post, I quoted several paragraphs from the transcript of my interview with Lucia René. These fully represent my own views.

I wanted to make a clearer (brief!) personal statement of my views, which my closest friends know I've held for a long time.

• I'm not in any way proud to be a man.
• I feel ashamed of what all men have done to the planet and the human race over the millennia.
• Men are fundamentally warlike, controlling, domineering, and destructive. The more enlightened and aware men are fully aware of this tendency in their gender-disposition and always seek to compensate.
• If the world were populated (somehow!) entirely by women, I do believe the entire planet, and most cultures, would be entirely different.

Women can be plenty mean, too. But it's sad when little kids get caught up in gender wars.
It can hurt a little boy just as badly as any woman.

:(

Quote:

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Posted by Bill Ryan

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In my opening post, I quoted several paragraphs from the transcript of my interview with Lucia René. These fully represent my own views.

I wanted to make a clearer (brief!) personal statement of my views, which my closest friends know I've held for a long time.

• I'm not in any way proud to be a man.
• I feel ashamed of what all men have done to the planet and the human race over the millennia.
• Men are fundamentally warlike, controlling, domineering, and destructive. The more enlightened and aware men are fully aware of this tendency in their gender-disposition and always seek to compensate.
• If the world were populated (somehow!) entirely by women, I do believe the entire planet, and most cultures, would be entirely different.

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Isnt that just a bit too polarized?

Are you saying the nasty, manipulative, selfish women learned what they do from men only?

Ive known women that twist situations to their liking with no reguard for anyone involved (male or female) doing things that take a feminine thinking style that I struggle to understand.

I may be wrong; but reading the quoted post, it seems like you are demonizing males excessively, its too extreme.

I am very proud to be a man; I am not proud of "men" in general but my identity is mine to forge (no thanks to the pre-programmed crap) and while I dont condone the masculinity I often see, I also know from many examples this is not a black and white situation.

TO All ...
i can appreciate what you are attempting to express here... But please do not allow this to be become another 'hate male' thread...

We Are All Humans First !

I believe we incarnate as male or female each individual may be either- what ever suits the greater good .

I am sure I have experienced both, male and female incarnations plus combinations of left brain and right brain, it is all part of our evolution - in the beginning there was man-then woman and right brain arrived to balance left brain.

Logic and physical strength rule right now masculinecentric - this explains some of the reason we are in the mess we are in-we are without balance.

It's OK though as the female right brain will temper masculine steel -and the male and female will work in harmony together, today we are mainly black and white- one day we will be gray.

Gray is the vibration the soul likes best it seeks it out in all things, the hologramme tells us this- the colour wheel shows the way complementory colours please the eyes -the window to the soul, complementry colours when mixed together make gray.

You are right Bill now is the beginning time for the scales of balance -male female, logic intuition, black white, we all should be a perfect balance of both contrasts, this is why we are compelled to add to this thread.

I think in higher dimensions beings are both masculine and feminine together at the same time!

"If the world were populated (somehow!) entirely by women, I do believe the entire planet, and most cultures, would be entirely different."

I'm not so sure about this. There are plenty of women who are like Hilary Clinton who would rise to positions of power. Do you really think the world would be any better off with women such as her being in charge? I have seen my share of girls fights over the years, and we can be every bit as vicious as any male. We can be even more vicious and cutting with our words.

Women do hold 50% of the responsibility of how both their daughters and sons are raised. If mothers are fearful of their husbands that sends a powerful message to their children of BOTH sexes, and the cycle is repeated again.

I agree with Target, its not just all us and its a polarized view, there is truth in it but its a itsy bitsy teeny weeny bit skewed, I will return to this thread later on, first I'm going to drink three bottles of Chianti and eat funky cheese with my best German friend, a young lady who's ten years younger, has tattoos of skulls and roses on her arms, wings on her back, and has so many iron rings in her body that she attracts refrigerator magnets, she eats dudes for breakfast, drives Caterpillars and reachtrucks, is the best cook you have ever met, best lover I have ever met, and she is sexy as hell, men, she loves them and hates them and together we are going to discuss in no uncertain terms what we think of each other (men/women), get in heated debates, laugh our asses off in the meantime and will be extremely vulgar to blow of some steam, this will be watched by the dog ( bitch)who thinks this is absolutely hilarious, we are equals, completely, she can bitch about men, I get to bitch about women and in the end we always meet in the middle, as it should be, and I consider that to be very enlightened, I don't feel any guilt about what men have done in the past, I see the results but don't participate in recreating them, I see a heated debate coming, but also remember to keep this somewhat light footed and don't forget to smile, its not about his or her fault anymore, YOU are solely responsible for how you treat anybody, what sex someone is should not matter in the least.

She is the only one I can truly relate to, the only one who sees my tears, the only one who tells me to grow a pair, I...........for that am the only one who gets to see her tears.....but only if I tell her lose a pair, acting tough as nails out of necessity can be a real bitch........ at least we know each other well enough to recognize each other as total equals, to me that counts for everything, grow a pair or lose a pair, sometimes its what we all got to do.

I'm off but will return, perhaps unfortunately.

Have a good and productive evening, y'all.

See you on the flipside or flip you on the seeside.

On the whole men have caused a great deal of distress on the planet, no question about it. I do believe we could benefit if society were generally matriarchal, although as other posters have pointed out, there are some "doozy" women out there as well. One plus that men do generally have over women is that we are more driven by logic whereas many women are more influenced by emotion/feelings. The latter can be dangerous, especially in a world where everything is not warm and fuzzy.

Quote:

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Posted by Bill Ryan

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In my opening post, I quoted several paragraphs from the transcript of my interview with Lucia René. These fully represent my own views.

I wanted to make a clearer (brief!) personal statement of my views, which my closest friends know I've held for a long time.

• I'm not in any way proud to be a man.
• I feel ashamed of what all men have done to the planet and the human race over the millennia.
• Men are fundamentally warlike, controlling, domineering, and destructive. The more enlightened and aware men are fully aware of this tendency in their gender-disposition and always seek to compensate.
• If the world were populated (somehow!) entirely by women, I do believe the entire planet, and most cultures, would be entirely different.

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Quote:

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Posted by Bill Ryan

They don’t know how to be whatever it is to be truly masculine, because they’re confused by Hollywood movies and archetypes and comic strips and a whole bunch of stuff that’s been coming at them, ever since they were kids. And they know that that’s not right. But they don’t know what is right.

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This is an important point, but I think that in many cases, "they" don't actually know that it's not right. I put that word in quotations because, although I am male, I do not abuse women, objectify them, or buy into the perverted modern standards of masculinity. Perhaps "they" would know, if they were inclined to listen to their intuition, or their conscience. They might have some sense of that wrongness deep down, but it is a sense that they are fighting, denying, or running away from.

The idea of what constitutes masculinity, and what is required of men to be -REAL- men has become vastly twisted. True men do not seek to conquer and destroy. True men do not require absolute obedience and submission. These are not signs of strength, though they are all too often mistaken to be.

I read a few of the posts that generated this thread, and to those women here and elsewhere who have had the misfortune of only engaging with the abusive, egotistic, 'macho' men; I am deeply sorry. Sorry that this is such a prevalent issue in modern society, sorry for the pain they have caused you, and sorry that they have tarnished the reputations of other men and caused you to lose hope in meeting a decent gentlemen who would honor you, respect you, and treat you as an equal and fellow individual (as you deserve to be treated).

One thing I can say with absolute certainty is that older women are basically 'invisible' to males not only in many situations in the 3D world but especially on UFO/paranormal internet forums. There was a time when I would never show a pic of myself and reveal my age in forums for that reason but after seeing too many older females ignored even though what they had to say about something was so much more coherent than what the vast majority of younger members who would be commenting on the same topic, I changed my mind and revealed my age and showed my pic just to show my support and respect for those women on those forums who were already doing that. But the truth is, some of those forums out there do not like older women revealing themselves on their forums. There's a lot of prejudice and even passive-aggressive discrimination there.

I think this is a doubled edged sword. My father was a violent man.When I was little I watched him
beat my mother several times. I told myself I would never be like him! I told myself that when i
grew up and became a father and husband I would be a good man. I met my wife in the spring of 98.
She appeared to be a very normal person and I was young and in love so we married in 2000.
I probably missed the warning signs, being in love does that to a person. She was insanely jealous.
I remember the first time she hit me. I was sitting on the couch with her watching a televison show
I think it was Melrose place. During the program there was a hottub scene and I jokingly said to my
wife she is a little busty. The next thing I know my wife smacks me in the mouth.
Over the next few years the violence increased and got worse. Anytime I disagreed with her or she
got angry she would hit me or throw something at me. One time she was mad at me during a family
BBQ so she picked up a bbq fork and threw it at me, and stuck it in my back.

Why did I stay? She would always apologize to me and I had 2 kids with her at this point.
I could not speak to other women when I was married to her or I was sleeping with them
according to her. In one of her fits she bloodied my nose & mouth and I told her, "what are
you going to do when you make me mad enough to hit you back" and she smiled and said
you dont have the balls. It finally culminated in the summer 2004. She came home drunk
and angry.I was sitting on the couch with my 2 year old son josh on my lap. She picked up
a vase that was setting on an in table. She stood over the top of me with the vase drawn
back to hit me. At first I held my hand up to protect myself and my son but eventually
lowered my hand because I didnt think she would endanger our son. The next thing I know
SMASH on the side of my head. It almost Knocked me unconcious. I got up, My head was
bleeding. I put my son on the other couch away from the broken glass. I reached out and
grabbed her by the neck.I had my fist pulled back to let her have it. I looked over and my
son was crying so I let her go and called the police. When they arrived they were going to
take her to jail but my kids were hysterical at this point so I told the officers I would leave
my home if they would not take her to jail. The officers reluctantly agreed.

Oh yes women can be just has abusive has a men.