Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

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Well! There's no harm in being ambitious. :)

The thread title is a [bit of a] joke. My intention here is to lay some basic principles out clearly -- in terms of what is and what isn't. It's intended to be a kind of A-B-C-1-2-3. Any criticisms of what this is all about can go on to another thread. My purpose here is to explain stuff so that the critics are at least well-informed.

:)

This is about pragmatism. It's about what works: tools that are available for use. And, if this is appreciated, I'd quite like to share my personal experience, which is fairly extensive.

For reasons which I hope members and visitors alike will respect, I've always thus far kept this pretty much all compartmentalized from my work and my mission. That's because the mission is more important, and the topic of discussion here is ONLY about a set of tools that can assist one in tackling one's mission more effectively.

In the pages that follow I'll no doubt say that over and over again. This is about a set of tools which work. They really do, when used in ethical and skilled hands.

And you don't have to use them. There are many others. But some of you may be waiting for this information, and it would be small for me to withhold it all merely because I was concerned about the reception from detractors. This stuff can transform your life. (And, again, so can many other sets of tools. Make your choice: you're a free being.)

I undertake to you that I will tell the truth, will not distort anything, state clearly if there's something that *I* don't know or don't fully understand. So here goes.

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I have never been in the Church of Scientology, and am considered by them to be one of their enemies. I went there, in London, back in 1984 for a couple of weeks for some "Book One" auditing. (This was after I had done Werner Erhard's est Training, and was driven to discover where all of Erhard's extraordinarily powerful techniques came from. It was almost all scientology.)

"Book One" auditing is basic 1950-style auditing, based on Hubbard's seminal book, Dianetics, the Modern Science of Mental Health. I can post it later in PDF format. There was no meter involved. The book was designed to enable "Mr and Mrs Everyman" to 'audit' each other with no reliance on any organization.

The Organization came later, after Hubbard was inundated with questions and requests for further information. He founded scientology (literally: "the science of knowing how to know") as protection from the American Medical Association, who wanted to hang Hubbard from the highest tree for "practicing psychotherapy without a license".

Hubbard was also loudly critical of psychiatric techniques and drug prescription, and so earned himself few friends in Washington. The 'Church' was never a religious organization. It was just a protective device. Jim Humble (also a ex-scientologist), the inventor of MMS, is doing exactly the same thing now, and calls himself a Bishop. Humble, like Hubbard, was just intent on not ending up in jail.

Back to my personal experience. I had 40 hours of "Book One Auditing", and was mightily impressed, It cut through my life junk like a knife through butter. And then when I looked around me, saw the 'Church' environment and the quality of the people involved, I realized straight away that something was badly wrong.

As synchronicity would have it, I immediately met someone who had left the Church who told me about the 'Free Zone', and explained about the takeover a few years earlier. All was explained. After that I never returned, and never looked back.

I opened up my past lives, cleared the backlog of charge from this-lifetime upsets, and started to develop my suppressed abilities. The principle here is one of "negative gain". One removes emotional charge, like scrubbing burned food off a dirty pan, and underneath -- guess what! -- it's all bright and shiny.

The abilities were there all along, but were suppressed underneath the mountain of collected stuff. All of that is the by-product of incomplete business.

I discovered for myself the following:

We humans are all in a 'fallen state'. Long, long ago, we all used to -- as beings -- be gods, as it were: creators, manifesters, dolphins playing together joyfully in the universal sea. As we accumulated more and more unfinished business --- basically, things that we'd not taken responsibility for and never cleaned up -- we 'solidified' until we can no longer remember who we are or the way things once were. And we've all been around for WAY longer than the 'Big Bang'.

Auditing, which is a simple, structured, question-and-answer process ('auditing' simply means 'listening'), removes this 'emotional charge', and these blocks. Gradually -- in most cases, over a period of years -- one starts to remember and recover who one really is.

Nothing is judged or evaluated by the auditor (or should be). One's realizations are all one's own. The sovereignty of one's experience is (or should be) paramount.

The e-meter is a tool, like a pendulum but far more exact, that assists the auditor in locating areas of 'available' charge. In itself it does nothing. The meter is not even necessary, but it does help the auditor to locate 'stuff' more precisely.

There's a kind of sequence involved. At first, in the earliest stages of auditing, in most cases one is focused on one's life as a human being: issues with family, work, the usual things that people might talk to a counselor about.

But as these problems get handled, one's attention almost always goes on to larger and deeper issues: Who am I? Where did I come from? What am I doing here on Planet Earth? What is my personal mission? How can I best help others?

As one progresses, cleans more and more layers of charge off, and rehabilitates lost abilities, one acquires tools (which in other situations might be called 'white-magical' or 'good-shamanic') which enable one to assist others remotely at a distance.

These are not mysterious in any way, but are part of our lost birthright. We can all do this stuff. What one also realizes when these states are reached are that the same tools are used for evil purposes by those with dark agendas -- and have been for thousands of years here on this planet.

In that manner, the whole issue then becomes transformed from "How can I help myself so that life doesn't hurt so much?" to "How can I help defeat the forces of evil that are destroying the planet?"

Back to Hubbard. I never knew him (he was way before my time), but I did know 'Captain' Bill Robertson -- known as 'Captain Bill' or 'CBR' to his friends. CBR was a remarkable, totally ethical, and very powerful man. He twice wrote down the winning German lottery numbers, but refused to buy a ticket as he insisted that it would be unethical to use his abilities in that way. He had a huge presence, and was a natural leader and inspirer.

CBR left the Church in 1982, as part of the great exodus that was partly precipitated by Dane Tops. (Read his interview transcript here.) CBR moved to Europe, founded what he called "Ron's Org" in 1984, and with another ex-Church and highly trained auditor, Ulrich Kramer, researched a number of missing techniques that LRH had either never discovered, or never made public. Those techniques opened the door to a great number of people to develop themselves in ways that they had never believed possible.

I myself connected with Ron's Org in 1988, and it was immediately obvious to me that this was the 'way out'. Now, Ron's Org primarily exists in Europe and Russia (astonishingly to many, there are more highly trained and able Ron's Org scientologists in Russia than anywhere else), though there are small groups of very highly trained people in America and South Africa. I know many of them personally. Some of them are the highest quality and most able human beings it has ever been my privilege to know.

Hubbard (LRH) was clearly a flawed man -- and many great people are. I am not qualified to judge him as a person or as a family man: only assess his legacy. My consideration of his legacy does not include the Church itself, which grew to became a huge aberration.

Hubbard's techniques -- the basics of which he mainly developed in the first few years of the 1950s, when he was at his most intuitively brilliant -- work, and can sometimes work miraculously. They take training and dedication to apply: but then (ask any Buddhist!), so do many other spiritual disciplines.

I'll pause here, and welcome all and any questions. I'll undertake to answer them all as best I can. I can maybe help interpret some (but not all!) of the story that Jim is trying to recount, and will do my best, bearing in mind that any interpretation of Jim's experience may not be fully correct. (I do not know him personally, but feel -- as do many others -- that he's trying to tell us something important. Don't throw away the mud without sifting it through for diamonds first.)

:)

Bill, are you awake or in a trance when the auditor is asking the questions ??

How often can you practice this, daily, weekly??

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Posted by seko

Are you awake or in a trance when the auditor is asking the questions ??

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100% totally awake. There's no relation to hypnosis.

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Posted by seko

How often can you practice this, daily, weekly??

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As often as one wants to. Sometimes one can do several sessions daily.

One is also not dependent on an auditor. After a while, one can graduate to solo auditing, which is when one's auditing oneself totally at one's own determinism. It's like asking yourself a question, and then noting one's own answer. One does not have to talk to another person -- but it does take a little training and practice.

Bill, thank you for explaining and simplifying this messed up charged up issue!

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A little more in answer to seko above:

• One can also do sessions with a distant auditor over Skype. (The meter can be with either person.)
• When solo auditing, unless one is very experienced or highly qualified, one does need guidance on what to audit (i.e. what question-and-answer processes to 'run') from someone who is qualified and experienced and who understands what you're wanting to address.

Is this practical for the newer generations?
I have read it may not be needed for indigo children,
is this true?

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Posted by dpwishy

Is this practical for the newer generations of us?
I have read it may not be needed for indigo children,
is this true?

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I would say it's very practical (and so, again, may be many other support tools).

The problem when arriving on Planet Earth is the amnesia. Indigo Children often have quite a hard time of it (rejection by the other kids, and bad parenting when they're not at all understood. Many parents fear unusual children!).

Auditing is one of the tools that can assist Indigos and other prodigies (of any age) to remember who they are and why they're here.

Many may not need it! And some others will go very rapidly and cut through it all very fast, in ways that someone experiencing auditing in the 1950s might not dream of.

Another factor to remember is that some prodigies are simply new arrivals on Planet Earth. This can mean that they find a lot of 'human' stuff upsetting and bewildering. Auditing is a tool that can skim away the emotional charge from all of that.

A further factor -- and this may feel off-the-wall for some -- is that some gifted children got a lot of auditing in their last lifetime, which has helped them return in this incarnation in pretty good shape. Many teenagers and young people in their early 20s have appeared at the Ron's Orgs in Germany and Russia, and quickly discovered that they had been in the subject for many years in their last lifetime, now eager to continue.

Whether or not one believes this, this is what has been reported many times. It's rather like a Lama in Tibet returning to the monastery to continue their spiritual path after being reborn. This happens in many disciplines, of course, and is not confined to Buddhism or scientology.

I've heard that long ago, there was a problem with earths gravity wave, our ancestors did something and didn't correct the wave problem, the result , was a split mind... since that time, everyone born here is born with a split mind... it created a block to past lives ... when you can unite the mind=past lives stored in all of us is available... you remember what you forgot ... to me remebering past lives is important , look at what one can accomplish when you know all the wrong turns and wrong outcomes...I don't fully understand auditing, but it seems based on what you've said it is important, I'm going to research to see where fate leads me... thanks Bill... I love a treasure hunt ...

Bill, thanks for sharing your viewpoint on this! A few quick (?) questions:

I remember a past post, when you mentioned finding pre-1970 Dianetics books to audit, but they aren't easy to come by. Would you mind sharing your PDF on Book One? Or do you have recommendations on legit auditing centers?

How does this relate to Dolores Cannon's method, if at all? When I couldn't find the original Dianetics book, I researched working with Cannon. Her waitlist is years long at this point and sadly, meeting with one of her student's teachers did not work for me. But I do wonder if there is any cross between.

Thanks! :)

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•When solo auditing, unless one is very experienced or highly qualified, one does need guidance on what to audit (i.e. what question-and-answer processes to 'run') from someone who is qualified and experienced and who understands what you're wanting to address.

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Thanx for clearing up and giving your perspective Bill, the general forum is almost drowning on Sci threads so it seems to be a hot topic this past few weeks, and I avoided them because I am hopelessly ill informed about the subject, part because of the confusion about the pro and con povs on scientology and what I feel is a diluted or purposely kept back info, I am very interested in the auditing methodology in its self.

Some questions I have are, who is considered to be a good experienced auditor?
When is an auditor a good auditor and how can a newbie tell this is the case?
Auditing questions, do the auditor and audited agree upon a subject that needs/requires addressing?
Is there a checklist to walk one through top to bottom to streamline the process, is there a particular order in it or does one together with the auditor address what you bump in to?
Are there additional techniques one can use to make the process of unloading easier, like some breathing exercises, Reiki?

Can the process be similar to working with affirmations, I myself have a particular technique for this, I state an affirmation as an absolute positive, I write down what bubbles up from my mind or body and repeat 10 to twenty times until no more arguments against the absolute positive come up, meaning I have run out of arguments that prevented me to believe in the absolute stated affirmation, I went to the bottom of the pit and left no stone unturned by doing this.

Last question, what are the specific topics that need to be addressed according to scientology to regain consciousness of one selves true nature and nature of the universe as is?

Thanks in advance Bill.

Ed

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Posted by TalkingFish

Would you mind sharing your PDF on Book One?

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Will do, with pleasure, when I get back to my backup disks in a few hours' time.

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Posted by TalkingFish

Or do you have recommendations on legit auditing centers?

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http://ronsorg.com/english/linksenglish.htm

For contacts elsewhere, send me a PM and let me know where you are. Many are not listed on that page.

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Posted by TalkingFish

How does this relate to Dolores Cannon's method, if at all?

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I'm afraid I have no strong idea. Many therapists practicing regression use variants of Dianetics, without even knowing that that's what they're doing. The technique is really extremely simple, so it's not surprising.

But it is important to work with someone you trust and feel at ease with. That may be more valuable than anything else -- apart from finding a person/technique that ONLY accesses your own knowingness about yourself -- and does not suggest ideas and perceptions of their own.

That's really critical. Or else you may find yourself 'front-loaded' by someone else's notions, and then when you come up with something yourself you'll never know whether it was your own memory or not. So in that sense, the regression methodology can make a real difference.

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Posted by 778 neighbour of some guy

Some questions I have are, who is considered to be a good experienced auditor?

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There's an accredited list: http://ronsorg.com/english/linksenglish.htm

But as I mentioned above, there are also many who are not listed there (including those in the US and South Africa). Send me a PM with your whereabouts, and I'll see if I can help.

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When is an auditor a good auditor and how can a newbie tell this is the case?

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Great question. Personal recommendation would be the only real way, as in the case with many therapists.

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Auditing questions, do the auditor and audited agree upon a subject that needs/requires addressing?

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There is almost always agreement (because the meter measures charge, and charge and personal attention are almost always closely linked). In other words, something you have a lot of attention on and really would like to be handled will almost certainly 'read' just as strongly on the meter. If there is any difference, then a good auditor would (or should!) always regard your own interest as senior and definitive.

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Is there a checklist to walk one through top to bottom to streamline the process, is there a particular order in it or does one together with the auditor address what you bump in to?

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At first, in initial stages, the auditor will (or should) work with your interest. See above.

In almost all cases, one first completes what is known as "Life Repair" -- which is, as the name suggests, a general clean-up of people and events and incidents in one's life that have left charge behind. (These could include traumatic childhood incidents, losses, deaths of people you loved, relationship issues, heavy disappointments, physical injuries, etc.) Many people on completing Life Repair consider that their lives now feel very different, and this can take anything between 10-50 hours. (And that's a rather wild guess, as this is of course so individualized.)

Often, in Life Repair, past life stuff comes up. That's because incidents occur in 'chains', each sitting on top of and locked into an earlier one (if there IS an earlier one).

An example of this might be if one fell out of a tree when one was a child and broke one's leg, and no-one came to help. One could 'run' this incident, and it might 'erase' (i.e. the charge might vanish completely: this happens sometimes).

But often, the charge will NOT immediately vanish, because there's an earlier, similar incident. That might be in a previous life: an example might be when one fell off one's horse in a battle in the 15th century and no-one came to help. That might be similar enough to affect you.

When running the process, this older event would quite easily come up. One goes back, and back, and back, until one gets to what is called a 'basic' incident on that chain. When THAT is erased -- they ALL go. Like magic.

Here's how: (This little booklet was put together by the Church of Scientology, but all the information in it is good and valid.)

http://projectavalon.net/Dianetics_Picture_Book.pdf



AFTER 'Life Repair' is completed, and you feel in pretty good shape, then there are recommended sequences for the next stages of 'clean-up', that go looking for stuff to handle that you might not be aware is there.

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Are there additional techniques one can use to make the process of unloading easier, like some breathing exercises, Reiki?

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No drugs or alcohol before the session. 24 hours in the case of alcohol, and longer periods for some drugs (medical or recreational). That's because these stop auditing from working, as incidents will not 'erase' properly.

Sometimes people who have had a lot of experience in practices like yoga, meditation, reiki, and many other things, find that their perception is already opened up and therefore auditing can go very quickly. But one should not try to combine these things all at the same time, or everything gets confused and the auditor will not be able to assess what has caused what to clear. :)

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Can the process be similar to working with affirmations, I myself have a particular technique for this, I state an affirmation as an absolute positive, I write down what bubbles up from my mind or body and repeat 10 to twenty times until no more arguments against the absolute positive come up, meaning I have run out of arguments that prevented me to believe in the absolute stated affirmation, I went to the bottom of the pit and left no stone unturned by doing this.

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Affirmations play no part in auditing processes, but certainly do no harm!

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Last question, what are the specific topics that need to be addressed according to scientology to regain consciousness of one selves true nature and nature of the universe as is?

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It's mostly all about negative gain (see my first post). The more stuff is cleaned off the 'frying pan', the cleaner and shinier it will become. So it's a gradual, steady process -- unless one strikes lucky and uncovers a massive incident that unlocks a lot of stuff at once. This can sometimes happen, but it not predictable in advance. And one can get realizations -- sometimes huge, life-changing ones -- at absolutely any time.

Thank you Bill, I had the picture book for a while, but there is nothing like answers from a personal experiencer and felt like drowning in the other threads. I will let your answers weigh in on my decision to take a closer look at the subject matter, gracias.

Hey bill,
When asking questions is it paramount to ask questions without contractions?
Example it's and don't to it is and do not.
Because it takes the meaning as the opposite?

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Posted by bennycog

Hey bill,
When asking questions is it paramount to ask questions without contractions?
Example it's and don't to it is and do not.
Because it takes the meaning as the opposite?

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No, not at all... the questions are formed in regular conversational English. But they're usually quite precisely worded, and it's always checked whether or not you understand what is being asked.

I have a question for Jiminii. when it comes to the gifts you have, the ones that able you to move hurricaines . hailstorms and the like, is this something that when you do it, is it a pre-meditated thing. Like do you say to yourself, how can I show someone I mean business, oh I will move a hurricaine, and then you do it. And when you are doing it, do you KNOW that it will happen, and does it work every time, or is it hit or miss. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't quite go the way you had hoped.

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Posted by Wantsthetruth74

I have a question for Jiminii. when it comes to the gifts you have, the ones that able you to move hurricaines . hailstorms and the like, is this something that when you do it, is it a pre-meditated thing. Like do you say to yourself, how can I show someone I mean business, oh I will move a hurricaine, and then you do it. And when you are doing it, do you KNOW that it will happen, and does it work every time, or is it hit or miss. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't quite go the way you had hoped.

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I can't answer this at all on Jim's behalf -- but you may want to take a quick look at the summary and reviews of this remarkable book:
The PK Man: A True Story of Mind Over Matter
http://amazon.com/The-PK-Man-Story-Matter/dp/1571741836

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...SH20_OU01_.jpg

http://amazon.com/The-PK-Man-Story-Matter/dp/1571741836#reader_1571741836

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Posted by Bill Ryan

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Posted by Wantsthetruth74

I have a question for Jiminii. when it comes to the gifts you have, the ones that able you to move hurricaines . hailstorms and the like, is this something that when you do it, is it a pre-meditated thing. Like do you say to yourself, how can I show someone I mean business, oh I will move a hurricaine, and then you do it. And when you are doing it, do you KNOW that it will happen, and does it work every time, or is it hit or miss. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't quite go the way you had hoped.


Hey never mind it looks like you already answered this here.
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post676410

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I can't answer this at all on Jim's behalf -- but you may want to take a quick look at the summary and reviews of this remarkable book:
The PK Man: A True Story of Mind Over Matter
http://amazon.com/The-PK-Man-Story-Matter/dp/1571741836

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...SH20_OU01_.jpg

http://amazon.com/The-PK-Man-Story-Matter/dp/1571741836#reader_1571741836

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Thanks!!!!!Looks like a good one!!! Ebay 6.25 free shipping : )

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Posted by TalkingFish

I remember a past post, when you mentioned finding pre-1970 Dianetics books to audit, but they aren't easy to come by. Would you mind sharing your PDF on Book One?

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Here, with pleasure.

• http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scie...alth_DMSMH.pdf

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Posted by Bill Ryan

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Posted by TalkingFish

I remember a past post, when you mentioned finding pre-1970 Dianetics books to audit, but they aren't easy to come by. Would you mind sharing your PDF on Book One?

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Here, with pleasure.

http://projectavalon.net/DMSMH.PDF

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Hi Bill,

The link doesn't download anything but a 1Kb file and the PDF reader in your post gives the same result...

I hope you'll be able to fix it?

Thanks!

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Posted by Amzer Zo

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Posted by Bill Ryan

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Posted by TalkingFish

I remember a past post, when you mentioned finding pre-1970 Dianetics books to audit, but they aren't easy to come by. Would you mind sharing your PDF on Book One?

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Here, with pleasure.

• http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Scie...alth_DMSMH.pdf

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Hi Bill,

The link doesn't download anything but a 1Kb file and the PDF reader in your post gives the same result...

I hope you'll be able to fix it?

Thanks!

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Apologies -- Fixed now. :)

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Posted by Bill Ryan

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Posted by Amzer Zo

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Posted by Bill Ryan

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Posted by TalkingFish

I remember a past post, when you mentioned finding pre-1970 Dianetics books to audit, but they aren't easy to come by. Would you mind sharing your PDF on Book One?

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Here, with pleasure.

http://projectavalon.net/DMSMH.PDF

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Hi Bill,

The link doesn't download anything but a 1Kb file and the PDF reader in your post gives the same result...

I hope you'll be able to fix it?

Thanks!

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Apologies -- having trouble with the server upload. Will fix soonest, then re-post as soon as it works.

EDIT --> Fixed. :)

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I ;am thinking we can make a group and call it research ..then we can decide what we want to put on the sight ...
because I need to clear some things about this nibiru and more ... I can almost hear the conversations up there .. but I don't know who it is ,,, it is like they are making the decisions but with who down here I don't have any good cogs

what you think?

jim

after Bill mentioned the "free zone" I was reminded of my own research on this topic,
kind of sad that I gave up on it when I found out about that...

sometimes it takes a while to find the right path.
i sincerely believe that many people have found meaning and purpose in their lives simply by practicing some of the things you guys are talking about.

personally, I have no experience of it.

Bill (or Jim?) do you know about Ken Ogger aka The Pilot, and if so, what are your thoughts about him and his works?

Thanks Bill.

I hope everyone (especially those who have been getting irked by the recent discussions) understands Bills post here; these are tools, similar to many other, just using different names to describe the same things. They can be used for good or bad, and such use in no way reflects on the person who first devised the tools.

Since I've been a member here, there have been occasional forays into dianetics, which sounds like a subject I can really get to grips with. I greaty appreciate Bill posting his experience, and am especially grateful for the (rare) books.

Bill,

Thank you for the pdf that I was able to download without a problem (275 pages in total).

Hi Bill
Thanks for this information...
What part does the ego, as we usually think of it, play in the auditing process?

I am familiar with some regression techniques which address some current life blockages, like falling from a swing and been afraid of heights etc.
Now I do understand and fully agree with past life engrams and have found that...as an example of one person who died in a previous life from what we suspected to be falling off a mountain...that he was able to resolve this by going back up the mountain again...sort of...if you fall off a horse...get straight back on again, stuff.

These...once resolved will not usually address problems like arrogance and self serving attitudes.
I have been more active in this field of service where finding out who we are...not human beings but Spiritual Beings...seems to have great success.

So how does the auditing process uncover and resolve typical ego traits if the person is merely behaving in a manner which has been part of his long life upbringing? and hence....the point which puzzles me...how does auditing deal with the fact...and I am using this cautiously...that we choose our parents for a life which would best be in our interests to resolve 'flaws' in our character?

Take care
Ray

O.K. then Bill, after seeing the start of this thread,

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Any criticisms of what this is all about can go on to another thread. My purpose here is to explain stuff so that the critics are at least well-informed.

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I thought the only other way was to start yet another Scientology thread, as I'm done with "The Jim Show". :nod: But if you're now fielding "negative" questions as well, then here goes.

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Posted by Bill Ryan

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Posted by jiminii

I am tired of answering all these negative guestions

anyone with negative questions i will not answer anymore
you can ask bill

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Yep: send all your negative questions to me. :)

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There's been numerous adjectives bandied about describing members who are ill at ease with the direction Avalon is suddenly taking, we are: "aggravating, negative, critics, opposers, ill informed, not being team players, etc."

So, I'll narrow it down to just one question, followed by a little bit of commentary: Just what constitutes a "negative" question in this case?

Is it a question that just shouldn't be asked? Is it a challenge to a claim or info given? Is it pointing out inconsistencies, discrepancies, or red flags, and asking how come? Is it an unconscious engram being restimulated, that simply needs to be audited? Is it wondering why the sudden avalanche of Scientology tech here, starting with the introduction of a previously unknown Scientology super hero? Is it wondering why we suddenly have to have a new leader figure to guide us young'uns out of the briar patch?

And now for the commentary part:

As many here probably know from my posts, which tend to be good humored, I like to enjoy a few frosty cold ones http://www.bigtenfever.com/forums/im...ies/cheers.gif in the evening, especially with some friends or company. But, if someone comes over and tries to force their own frosty cold beer down my throat I'm not going to like it, not one bit.

They are going to have some splainin to do, and I would not be in any mood to hear: "I'm tired of your negative questioning".

And finally, here's the bugger of it all. I ordinarily wouldn't mind one bit having an in depth and intelligent conversation about Scientology, especially with people who have experience with it. Having lived right next to FLAG central in Clearwater for most of my life, and having learned much about it in the process, I think it would be most interesting.

BUT, having now had that "frosty cold beer" shoved down my throat, not to mention the lurkers and new members as well, I'm more in "you got some splainin to do" mode. And you know what? That's most unfortunate, but it is what it is...

Please pardon this interruption folks. I'll await to read the answer to my question, and not disrupt this thread, nor the others again. :no:

Cheers,
Fred

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Posted by jiminii

I'am thinking we can make a group and call it research ..then we can decide what we want to put on the sight ...
because I need to clear some things about this nibiru and more ... I can almost hear the conversations up there .. but I don't know who it is ,,, it is like they are making the decisions but with who down here I don't have any good cogs

what you think?

jim

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Jim: Nibiru -- as best as I've been able to find out, and this includes some 'insider' whistleblower information -- is probably a brown dwarf 'smaller twin' to our star, the sun. Our solar system seems to be very probably a binary system, as most solar systems in fact are.

This very hot object is not a planet, and nothing could live on it. Itself, it might have moons (or sub-planets) orbiting it, which may be solid or rocky. It's conceivable, though highly unlikely, that one of those might bear life.

This object would be a little larger (and probably quite a bit heavier) than Jupiter, and would currently be somewhere out there in the vicinity of Jupiter's orbit -- coming this way on an inbound elliptical orbit. That would suggest it'd become visible in a few years time, which is what I have heard. Bear in mind that it would NOT be easily visible with the naked eye, but would be strongly radiating in the infrared (heat) spectrum.

Meanwhile, any 'photos' of 'Nibiru' snapped with cellphone cameras, etc, are certainly sundogs (spectacular illusions caused by certain atmospheric phenomena). If this were visible at all, 10,000 amateur astronomers the world over, reporting to, responsible to, and paid by no-one, would all be screaming from the rooftops -- and competing with one another for the kudos of recognized first discovery.

'Nibiru' was made famous by Zecharia Sitchin, who claimed that the Anunnaki were riding around on it, waiting patiently for it to approach Earth again. This is certainly nonsense. The Anunnaki (who did and still do exist) have their own high-tech means of advanced space travel. They can (and do) come here any time they want to.

Strong advice: stick to reporting your own very interesting subjective experiences. Don't always try to connect them to other claims on the internet. If those are false or invented, then you may accidentally discredit yourself.

As I've mentioned before, there's a great deal of nonsense out there in the alternative media (such as 'Ascension' to the 'Fourth Dimension'). I agree with you that a pole shift will not happen, and might have been prevented. There remain other threats, though. We're not out of the woods yet.

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Posted by Fred Steeves

Is it wondering why the sudden avalanche of Scientology tech here, starting with the introduction of a previously unknown Scientology super hero? Is it wondering why we suddenly have to have a new leader figure to guide us young'uns out of the briar patch?

---

When I read this, what immediately came to mind is that what we are seeing right now is something that will pass. I think Jim is overloaded with thoughts, knowledge and ideas and is feeling a need to do a data-flush upload. I notice that a lot of it is shooting from the hip, which is fine. We can all take it and pass it through our own filters. But I am fairly sure that he will not be able to keep up this pace. I don't wish for him to leave, no not at all, but the sudden barrage will come to an end, probably sooner rather than later.

That being said, on a site like Avalon, I would expect nothing less than for us to thoroughly cover the gamut of subjects from Alpha to Omega. This is merely one of them. PA will not suddenly become a Scientology website.

Maybe we can all take a....

http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/images/.../l_fb-2090.png

;)

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Posted by Fred Steeves

There's been numerous adjectives bandied about describing members who are ill at ease with the direction Avalon is suddenly taking, we are: "aggravating, negative, critics, opposers, ill informed, not being team players, etc."

Cheers,
Fred

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Hi Fred,

Can I ask just one question? Where have these adjectives been bandied around? Context please, most important that we don't get into generalities here.

Please also be specific with the what you mean about "the direction Avalon has suddenly taken." Avalon as far as I can tell has sailed into murkier water than this and is still on course.

I grant that the subject is rather charged... all the more reason to speak with as much personal candor and with specifics.

As you also well know, questions that are true inquiries have always been welcomed, even on touchy subjects.

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Posted by Wantsthetruth74

I have a question for Jiminii. when it comes to the gifts you have, the ones that able you to move hurricaines . hailstorms and the like, is this something that when you do it, is it a pre-meditated thing. Like do you say to yourself, how can I show someone I mean business, oh I will move a hurricaine, and then you do it. And when you are doing it, do you KNOW that it will happen, and does it work every time, or is it hit or miss. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't quite go the way you had hoped.

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in the beginning it was a game ....but very often people will invalidate it ... I would try to sincerely try to show people that they could do these miracles ... there are many ... like moving my hand near someones toothache and suddenly the toothache disappears ... or when I knew cathy at the health food store she was rolling over in pain on the floor ... and we both tried to follow the rules of healing by auditing like don't mix practices ... but she is on the floor screaming .. so I asked her if it is ok if I can help her my way and she said ok .. I moved my hand near her side between ribs and hips and the pain just blew and she jerked a bit.
so then she said, "hey the pains gone" but something inside me wanted to do more and I said, "let me move it more to the center " she jerked again and said, "something moved inside me" ... I said "I got to move it more to the center" and I did and she said, "it moved again .... jim ....jim ... I see white lines coming from your fingers " ... I didn't see the white lines ... and that night all this stuff came out of her in the toilet ... so it is something like this ... the being inside me sees something and somehow projects it to me and I get some reaction like I have to move it to the center ... this is the first time I moved something in someones' body and it was the last .... my head vanishing and me moving it down to the waist was the first time it happened and those 2 girls saw it .. and it was the last .... I could never remember the exact energy I was doing again ... but i remember when I did it .. I had known this before... the ghost fingers moving out the windows and moving the storm happened twice but the idea of it came in that moment ... didn't come from something I saw or read before .. it was an impulse of the being in me at the time .... all the things that happened in bangkok that was the moment of the time ... I didn't have access to an english newspaper ... so I didn't know what my weather was doing until I said, "I am putting storms up there ... I am going to slow them down" ... and he yelled ... "it's true ... it's true ... it's true ..all there tanks and equipment are in 4 feet of mud" most of it is like this .. in the moment ... a few are like when I really get disgusted at how vicious the enemy is so I assume I have to put my attention directly to their spirits saying "ok you want the planet I will give it to you but by the time you get it you won't want it " ... ok I know in the spirit world I can confront directly the enemy .. and I can put enough threat there that he will back off ... so I put more evil and destruction than those beings can have .. they see all the insurance companies folding up and all their assets being used up and it keeps going and later I found out that the storms were not only hitting all of US impossible results like 2 feet of snow in Washington DC ... all of Europe was being flooded too ... by december a few months later all the court cases were dropped on scientology ... too ... and they said "the war is over" ... but they retaliate now .. it is ok for them to create their HAARP ... so fighting with my weapons only gets more coming back ... so I do a better one ... I just start getting them caught and jailed ... and that is still happening
I haven't dropped that postulate .. but I don[t fight with weather anymore ..

jim

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Posted by Fred Steeves

Is it a question that just shouldn't be asked? Is it a challenge to a claim or info given? Is it pointing out inconsistencies, discrepancies, or red flags, and asking how come? Is it an unconscious engram being restimulated, that simply needs to be audited? Is it wondering why the sudden avalanche of Scientology tech here, starting with the introduction of a previously unknown Scientology super hero? Is it wondering why we suddenly have to have a new leader figure to guide us young'uns out of the briar patch?

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Hey Fred,

You know what really perplexes me?

Well, it´s the undeniable fact that such subject gained that much traction here based on huge, unverifiable and unfounded claims made by someone who believes to be the second coming of Jesus or something close to it.

This is really impressive; If there was an yearly gullibility award, PA would be a serious candidate to win it.

You know, after all those years keeping myself informed about what goes on in the Alternative Media, my conclusion is that people simply like to hear stories; the crazier the better. The more fantastical, nonsensical and unfounded a story is, the more traction and repercussion it gets in websites such as this one.

Next step is to set up a few interviews with Jim and make him the next alternative media celebrity of the month. He surely fits all requirements.

Come on folks...Are you serious? Perhaps this is just a social experiment and you forgot to warn me about it?

I´m sorry if I may sound disrespectful, but these things need to be said.

Raf.

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Posted by RMorgan

Quote:

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Posted by Fred Steeves

Is it a question that just shouldn't be asked? Is it a challenge to a claim or info given? Is it pointing out inconsistencies, discrepancies, or red flags, and asking how come? Is it an unconscious engram being restimulated, that simply needs to be audited? Is it wondering why the sudden avalanche of Scientology tech here, starting with the introduction of a previously unknown Scientology super hero? Is it wondering why we suddenly have to have a new leader figure to guide us young'uns out of the briar patch?

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Hey Fred,

You know what really perplexes me?

Well, it´s the undeniable fact that such subject gained that much traction here based on huge, unverifiable and unfounded claims made by someone who believes to be the second coming of Jesus or something close to it.

This is really impressive; If there was an yearly gullibility award, PA would be a serious candidate to win it.

You know, after all those years keeping myself informed about what goes on in the Alternative Media, my conclusion is that people simply like to hear stories; the crazier the better. The more fantastical, nonsensical and unfounded a story is, the more traction and repercussion it gets in websites such as this one.

Next step is to set up a few interviews with Jim and make him the next alternative media celebrity of the month. He surely fits all requirements.

Come on folks...Are you serious? Perhaps this is just an experiment and you forgot to warn me about it?

I´m sorry if I may sound disrespectful, but these things need to be said.

Raf.

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Hey guys - chill please.

No one is announcing the second coming of anyone, no new leader, no super hero, no one needing or asking to get pulled out of the briar patch. Take what you will and leave the rest. I haven't heard one person say that jiminii is their lord and savior.. all he has done is bring some attention on a subject which maybe the time has come to explore.

It has raised some questions in myself which I find helpful to explore. Controversy quite often has that effect.

Love you both,
Christine

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Posted by Finefeather

Hi Bill
Thanks for this information...
What part does the ego, as we usually think of it, play in the auditing process?

I am familiar with some regression techniques which address some current life blockages, like falling from a swing and been afraid of heights etc.
Now I do understand and fully agree with past life engrams and have found that...as an example of one person who died in a previous life from what we suspected to be falling off a mountain...that he was able to resolve this by going back up the mountain again...sort of...if you fall off a horse...get straight back on again, stuff.

These...once resolved will not usually address problems like arrogance and self serving attitudes.
I have been more active in this field of service where finding out who we are...not human beings but Spiritual Beings...seems to have great success.

So how does the auditing process uncover and resolve typical ego traits if the person is merely behaving in a manner which has been part of his long life upbringing? and hence....the point which puzzles me...how does auditing deal with the fact...and I am using this cautiously...that we choose our parents for a life which would best be in our interests to resolve 'flaws' in our character?

Take care
Ray

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Well! What a huge question. Not sure if I can answer this, but I'll give it a go.

To some degree, this depends on what the 'ego' is considered to be. It's one of those concepts that tends to mean different things in different contexts, and to different people.

I'll assume that here it means the strength of the sense of self, in a self-preservative way. It's an interesting question, because it can cause problems. Here's how:

The way auditing is meant to work -- which is in a particular carefully worked-out sequence and structure -- is to keep the balance in at all times, and to prevent the 'ego' from holding too much sway. The end product should be a balanced, sensitive, aware human being who is in great shape, ready to admit that they are wrong when they are, not trying to play games with others and be 'one-up', and not regarding themselves as holier-then-thou in any way whatsoever.

But the entire 'engineering' problem of optimizing the function of the human mind and spirit is so complex, that sometimes that balance is not maintained. And in those situations, the end product can occasionally be someone who is not upset about anything any more, is confident and capable, has no problems affecting him or her in life, but who might be considered by others an arrogant a**hole. :)

This is rare, but can certainly happen. I've seen it myself. But it should certainly be noted that this sometimes happens in EVERY discipline or spiritual path that I'm aware of, except (possibly) traditional Buddhist practice. These INCLUDE traditional Shamanism in every culture, Yoga, Zen, Sufism, Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and definitely also every kind of 'teaching' where there's a person who holds themselves as an authority figure to be followed or obeyed.

So someone who, when they were unconfident and feeling not very powerful or able, might not have the personal power to (for instance) go into denial about something, might -- when much more confident and powerful -- be MUCH more easily able to go into denial, or to deceive themselves in some way.

I've seen this happen, too. It seems that at least sometimes, with unbalanced spiritual growth can come an arrogance and lack of balance that is visible to others, but not to oneself.

What auditing certainly does to is make one more able. A cynic might say (not without some justification!) that if you expand the abilities of a jerk, you just get a more able jerk. It may depend just where the 'jerkness' comes from.

If the 'jerkness' is based on (for instance) having been abused as a child, or having decided through earlier traumatic experience that one had to get one up on everyone in order to survive, that jerkness would probably evaporate out naturally.

And then -- some people just WANT to be a jerk. Really. They have that choice.

:)

Regarding choosing our parents (or anything else, such as one's environment as a child, certain events in one's life, or even one's body, for better or for worse) -- the reasons for this often emerge naturally in the auditing process, with one's own realizations about how we have created a great deal of stuff for which we often blame others (or fate, or 'God').

We really are responsible for most, if not all, of what we experience.

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Posted by Fred Steeves

So, I'll narrow it down to just one question, followed by a little bit of commentary: Just what constitutes a "negative" question in this case?

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Hi, Fred:

Here are examples of negative questions -- taken from [imaginary] different contexts. (But you'll know from your own extensive forum experience that these examples, while not copied quotes, are pretty real. We see them on Avalon periodically.)

On a David Icke thread:

--- Bill, that was yet another very weird handshake you gave David after the interview. Come on, we know the truth. Why don't you admit you're both freemasons?

On a Jordan Maxwell thread:

--- Isn't Jordan Maxwell just plagiarizing all of P. Manly Hall's material? Do you really think that Jordan, who really doesn't seem all that bright, has come across and researched all that stuff on his own? Bill, I have a question for you: Why do you support Jordan so much?

On an Alex Jones thread:

--- Hasn't it been established a long time ago that Alex Jones is paid by the CIA? He's never denied it. Don't you realize that he never, ever, mentions Israel? The guy's as fake as a three-dollar bill.

On a Project Camelot thread:

--- James Casbolt (Michael Prince) states clearly that Camelot is a CIA-funded operation. Bill, what have you got to say about this? We know that you've been gallivanting around the world staying in expensive hotels and that could not possibly come from donations. So, where does the money come from?

Etc, etc, etc.

Does this help?

And here's a real example, from Fred Steeves:

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you got some splainin to do

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:)

Clusters of threads often appear, each spawned by the others. The 'Batman' Shootings, Sandy Hook, The Boston Bombings, 9/11, Benghazigate, the Gulf Oil Spill, and much much more. Mods often merge threads, but not always -- when the themes are sufficiently distinct. (This is always a tricky call.)

Over time, other clusters appear. Search for David Icke, Jordan Maxwell, Alex Jones, Ben Fulford, Lindsey Williams, and you will find DOZENS of threads -- but not all started at the same time.

It's also possible -- wait for it! -- that members find these topics interesting. Threads always "fall off" the New Posts list when attention wanes. Bear in mind that it's the forum MEMBERS who are keeping these topics alive. That includes you! :)

I am a forum member here, and *I* find it interesting. I am allowed to. (I find many other things interesting too. Take a couple of weeks off and read through my 4,700 posts.)

Others find this topic interesting, too. You should see my PM inbox.

I totally understand that living in Clearwater, you've had your fill of scientology. But I am highly critical of the 'Church', and am even endangering myself (theoretically) by stating so time and again.

My question for you: why is it so difficult to tell the difference between what you have been exposed to (a lot of unsavory and off-putting stuff, which I would surely totally agree with you about were I to know the details), and what I and others are trying to explain and clarify here?

Okay, so here's another question... why did you remove my posts, when even Jiminii agreed with me and said I had a valid question...

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Posted by Padmé

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Posted by jiminii

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Posted by Padmé

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Posted by jiminii

right that is the way to do it ,... people who are too serious can't effect anything ... there is too much effort ... you know they want me to prove the weather ,.. and if I do ,.. it would be like every time I did before.... as soon as you do it ... they will say it was going to happen anyway ... but when the rain stopped between the two lights the girl shut up ... she couldn't say anything after that ,.. but those are rare .. you almost have to be in such a jokingly light mood because the thoughts that work are the light ones ... just like this other post of a baby making weather .. that baby has no thought that it can't be done ,.. no counter intention ,.,. just puts it there .. but people with a lot of losses will not believe it ... just the fact that you doubt it and disbelieve it alone will not make it happen

you have to read the book

I put up a thought in Los angeles to make no rain and keep it hot so I could sell ice cream on my ice cream truck ,and a few years later I wasn't even doing the ice cream truck .. and maybe it is about 1978 and they have news saying they've had a 7 year drought and they will allocating all the water in Los Angeles and they will start some government program to manage the water ... I suddenly thought "OMG ... I stopped the rain" I put out my thoughts to cancel the stop ." ... the rain started up and it was going until around january ... and I was living with an OT 2 .. and I told him "we have enough rain I am going to stop it now"
he said "no we still need more ... " and he is comparing the rain to mid east not same like the Los angeles being in a desert "
I said "no I am stopping the rain tonight"
well I don't have the label of being an OT because they never let me attest to it . so he assumes I have no power at all.
he says "me and a bunch of ot's are postulating rain"
I said "it will stop tonight"
the weather forecast was heavy rain that night
that night the rain shifted and missed Los angeles completely
now this OT 2 complained for the next two weeks so I thought "ok you want to see rain?"
I started postulating rain ... no rain ... I pushed it harder ... no rain ... then harder .. no rain ... so I cogged " oh I forget to cancel the stop the rain postulate"
I canceled the stop and the rain came down and all of orange county is flooded the santa monica peers and coast lines are breaking up and all the land is falling on the the highway there ... all the houses in the hollywood hills are coming down the mountain .... and the canyons too ... and I tried to stop it and it only made it worse and whipped up the winds so hard I thought it too dangerous to try to sop it
so I said "just let it ride out .... don't put any more postulates there "
this ot 2 refused to talk to me about weather ever again

............


eventually all of you will be handled .. that is our target and goal .. you can do it now .. or you can do it 100 trillion years from now or never
it is all up to you

jim

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So let me get this clear, you caused hot weather for your own financial gain, then irresponsibly forgot you had, then messed up the process and so there were greater consequences for quite a while...
and you say we should all read this book and have a try too? :D

... and if we choose not to believe, then we will all be 'handled' anyway... what do you mean by this statement?

---

look ... I am learning this stuff just like anyone else ... it is same like inelia with no experience

I picked weather because it was going to rain and I was on the road with no place to sleep

and I was just curious why the chant worked
until it stopped the rain between two lights ,., so then I wanted to know how that happened ,,, I knew it couldn't be a chant ... then i read the book and I practiced .. I never expected it would continue to stay hot ... especially 7 years .... and this body doesn't believe it anyway ,,,, so 7 years later I flip on the TV channel .. and there is a 7 year droubt ,, ,,, I tried to start the rain again
it wouldn't start ... again and again ...then I realized that it must have been started when I was on the ice cream truck ... so I cancel that thought and the rain started
this body gets surprised every time ... because I put out thoughts they happen ... this body doesn't believe it .. so I drop it .. but the thought didn't drop until I looked on the TV

now this is how thoughts work ... put up a thought you want rain .. and it works the same way for everyone ... so then we get rain .. now you want to stop the rain.. the second thought goes up against the first thought. and locks because they ar opposing thoughts ... no matter what you do you can't make the second thought work until you stop the first thought ...

but ... to stop the first thought you have to look at the exact time that you created the thought to make it vanish
some people need a meter to go back to the exact thought to make it vanish ,,, I don't ... I just look

so are you interested in making money?
not with weather ...
and you got some thought there that is stopping all your money and it won't go away ,.,
what do you do?
some people need a meter to go locate the thought that is stopping them from having money

do you want a job?
go back to the thoughts that are stopping you from getting a job

this is why everyone is having so much trouble living on this planet ,.. the cabal sets everything up to make everyone lose and get in lowered conditions and all these thoughts of yours start happening and next you know you are broke .. and no way out of it ... if you knew how to handle your thoughts you can make your life better

and if I can make the weather go the way I want ... and no one else changes it ,... then they don't believe they can change it ... so the weather will follow me ... if more people took more responsibility for the weather and learned how to manage like the buddhas in thailand .. you would get a more balance game to play .. the fact that you can't change the weather puts you in apathy about doing anything about the weather
get up to where you are cause over it .. and then we would probably be able to heat up HAARP enough to break it. These people are taking aiien tech and using it to hurt us and create famine ... if you had the ability to control the weather ... they wouldn't be able to do this
I am keeping the weather going fine over here ... where I can see what it is doing not somewhere else where I can't see it ... and may cause damage ... you have a responsibility to handle your own area just like I do .. if I were able to see outside this body .. I could handle it all .. but I don't, so maybe some others should get in there and learn it and take some responsibility themselves

jim


why would you eventually come ??? maybe because you would get tired at beating your head up against the wall trying to figure out why you can get money or a job ...
you would see others that are winning ... so you would want to know

inelia said their was no manual to operating the body ,.. and there is no manual to operate this universe . it just want the way it want hap hazard for eons ,,so this guy called LRH tries to learn it and make a manual so people can learn how to make their lives better ... and those who want to steal it and control it spend billions of dollars and also taxpayers dollars to try to destroy it ... one man ... could keep it going as long as he could ,, .. .. he worked almost 16 or more hours a day to try to give everyone a chance .. and I can see on this site anyone can go out and find anything to tear it down ,., and not know where it came from
I know where it came from because i was there when we were fighting all these false reports setup with this count tel pro program .. and i worked in this orgs and saw everyone was very serious to try to keep ethics in and make it go right ... I saw it ...

but go ahead and read any of the garbage on the internet ...
it is up to you ... it is your life

bill told me to slow down

I am tired of answering all these negative guestions

anyone with negative questions i will not answer anymore
you can ask bill

I can clean a lot of this with him because he will honestly go look first
before he speaks

jim

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Why has my actual post, my response to Jiminii and his subsequent post been removed?????????? It doesnt even show up on the list when you go via my profile...

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Posted by Bill Ryan

Etc, etc, etc.

Does this help?

:)

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It illustrates light to the sighted.

What it really doesn't address, figuratively, is the slope, sliding scale, whatever you want to call it, that causes the "mud" we always get stuck in here and everywhere.

I mean, the frustrating fact that we are always being responded to by people who don't know what we know ( yet - etc ).


I, and I suspect you, too, and every normal person I can think of, have yet got to come up with a way to say stuff that's going to be received by all types in an equal way, with the same result.

[ if you DO know how to do this, please don't let the slimy politicians get hold of the technique ]

:)

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To Padmé: read this, right now -- please.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post676596

And also take a look at my reply to Fred above about negative posts. You've been on the forum for over two years, over half of your posts have been in the last week, and almost all of those have been disruptive to the energy.

You are TRYING to find fault. It looks immature. Be aware of how you're coming over to everyone else.

The effect is that of heckling a conference speaker. That does not technically break the law -- but don't be surprised if, after a while, the conference organizers ask you to leave the auditorium.

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Posted by bill ryan

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to padmé: Read this, right now -- please.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post676596

and also take a look at my reply to fred above about negative posts. You've been on the forum for over two years, over half of your posts have been in the last week, and almost all of them have been disruptive to the energy.

You are trying to find fault. It looks immature. Be aware of how you're coming over to everyone else.

The effect is that of heckling a conference speaker. That does not technically break the law -- but don't be surprised if, after a while, the conference organizers ask you to leave the auditorium.

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um.... Wow!!!! Hah! Just... Wow!!!