Truth or dare ... Do we dare to see the truth ?

[Operator]

Hi fellow Avalonians,

This will probably be a long intro and I imagine the thread may develop in an intense discussion. That's ok I guess
but let's keep it a constructive one. I may also be stepping on some toes here, so I apologize in advance. My new
insight may unfortunately not be a happy one ... the truth may indeed be more ugly than we can handle.
So here goes ...

One week ago I decided to completely wipe the slate clean and start building up a new opinion based on as much
knowledge as possible as I gathered in the past years. With all the UFO stuff coming into focus we're likely to
be distracted and tend to forget about a lot of other, less recent, material.

First of all, as I mentioned in some of my earlier posts, don't think black and white ... there's no good and evil.
There are agendas and (parts of) some will benefit you and other ones will hinder/obstruct you.
So please think in teams/camps/players following an agenda ... I think Bill said it before: see the others/players
as they are solving a problem. That's what they think they're doing when performing their agenda.
(Keep in mind that belief systems are likely the designs for an agenda too !)

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...Stevens...-RIP

The above thread refers to almost 3 hours of interview with Wendelle Stevens. To me Wendelle appears to be a
no-nonsense guy with a lot of experience and a lot of investigated material. It's maybe also the reason why
the full 3 hours are significant and relevant material. It glues some main points together.

Here on Avalon and other forums we talk about a lot of themes. And I think the themes itself need investigation
since they have an almost auto-pilot navigation built in: Chem-trails and vaccines are here to kill us all, it's
all about enslavement and power etc. etc. etc.
I listened to Mel's recent interview with Paul Hellyer. And again I was amazed at first that Mr. Hellyer talked
about global warming and that we should do something about it. Here goes the auto-pilot again, I thought he must
be very wrong. Well maybe not, maybe he's better informed then we assume ...

But there are also less recent themes we almost forgot. The report of Iron mountain, alternative 3 etc. You may not
agree with the conclusions of the theme but if someone else does you can safely bet there is an agenda in place too.

Now there is another returning theme: sick ET's (e.g. films ET, last mimzy, District 9) with degenerated genetics
problems. Probably at least 2 different camps involved: 1. The sick ones trying to restore there health and others
that are monitoring the human health situation. Both camps maybe involved in abductions and cattle mutilation with
or without help from the military (milabs). How striking that someone said: "The greys are us from the future" !
Do you think this is about time-lines ? No, it is our destiny ! We will become like them if we don't stop the
degeneration of the earthly human race !

That's why you see things like a doomsday vault being build rapidly and why you hear about an ark on the moon etc.
From the Wendelle Stevens interview I got several other interesting hints. In earlier days our atmosphere was thicker
and more water was in our atmosphere, people on earth could not see any stars. Everything was bigger and all lifeforms lived
longer. Our current planet itself is NOT a Goldy-locks planet at all. We have a very harsh sun and our solar system is one of
the most difficult ones to live in. ET's are monitoring us, they are amazed we can live here under those conditions and
are studying us to find out how we're coping with it. They are not here for a meet-and-greet, not to conquer the planet, not to
suck our brains out but just to watch and see how we will deal with what's coming. Earth is an experiment indeed !

Now what is coming ? Here's my theory (and theory alone !) You may add/remove freely, but keep it constructive !
Our sun is involved. As we all know by know we're entering a pretty weird solar cycle and our current days on
earth are more like a kind of Russian roulette. And we all heard about the 3 days of darkness and the sun dawning in
the west instead of the east. What if our sun got defunct because we are entering a dust cloud which is in our
current part of space ? They delayed crashing the Cassini space craft from July 1st 2008 till July 1st 2010 and they
are still delaying it ... Are they capable to create the return of a 2nd sun ? (Do some of us have type2 civ. technology ?)
I know it is far fetched ... but still the film 2010, the year we make contact almost paints this picture ...
When they send somebody to inspect the monolith he says: "Oh my gosh, it's full of stars !"

What will happen with our atmosphere when the sun is defunct ? Project bluebeam refers again and again to the night of
a thousand stars ... Will we see more stars when the atmosphere is gone .... is that Contact ?
Even the film "contact" with Jodie Foster is not about ET's but about leaving this reality of earth ... hmmm

And here's another theme that could be interpreted completely wrong: Chem trails ... according to most of us they are
here to kill us all, right ? Wendelle seems to be convinced enough that they are desperately trying to keep an atmosphere.
So maybe it's not healthy for us but it is kind of the same thing as chemo therapy to fight cancer.

Then there are 2 final themes I wanted to touch on: The mystery of disappearing micro biologists and the apparent deflection
of NASA and recently ms. Othman (UN) about alien life forms. They seem to move away from ET's and point to bacteria again
and again. Is this a smokescreen ? Maybe not. When our atmosphere is gone our biggest threat maybe bacteria from outer
space. Is it a coincidence that antibiotics vaccination of live stock was abandoned recently when they discovered that
the effectiveness of antibiotics was almost gone. The continuous reference to bacteria maybe the link to micro-biologists.

So ... are we still so happy when ET appears ? Are we really ready to face our true future ?
Perhaps there is more to it than to accept the fact that ET exists !

[Dale]

They are not here for a meet-and-greet, not to conquer the planet, not to
suck our brains out but just to watch and see how we will deal with what's coming. Earth is an experiment indeed !

This is an important thought.

Our sun is involved.

As is this.

[Lefty Dave]

My hunches : ET's are just that...they live here and have lived here longer than us...under the earth ...in the earth...above the earth....but I don't think they fly from Plaeides every night !

Chemtrails, Nuclear devices, CBR devices of all kinds, AIDS,...then you have religions....killed a lot more than the previous list.....humans are weird animals...and not to be trusted...which is why 'aliens' don't stop and chat !!! Though I respect Steve Greer greatly, I doubt if any government is ever going to come clean...maybe an agency, ( ACIO) someday, maybe Wingmakers was just that...after all, it got stopped and co opted pretty fast, to be a hoax!!! Just some thoughts ...good night all....

[Ross]

Good thread Operator...

To sum it up for myself, as I've said to myself for a looong time now...nothing is what it seems. Mainsteam, alternative, the universe...tho there are some very sick and twisted 'ways' of running this planet regardless of who, how, what, and why...and this is also part of being human... the continued quest for answers...or is that a continued quest of questions...cause I (still) don't have the answers. However, I personally kinda like not knowing and I do very much enjoy pondering the magnificants of it all.

Regards

Ross

[Swami]

very cool thread....

Have to think a bit before I give an answer....

[Eric J (Viking)]

Operator ... Great thread ... IMHO any man prepared to die for a cause...speaks volumes...

I believe Bill Cooper to be honest and Genuine.

viking

[Martin]

In the end it doesn't matter all that much ... until we as the people do not stand up to the powers controlling us from out of the dark everything else is - interesting as it may be - just a distraction. Sure, there is so much out there which is worth investing a whole human lifespan into it and most of the things you mentionded could be true and could even be happening right now or in the near future BUT it is in the nature of us as humans to always think that we are living near to the apocalypse/ armageddon. In the end how everything is going to work out will remain a mystery until it finally happens. About chemtrails, well maybe it is some kind of last hope operation to protect "us" or even our "atmosphere" but the wrong thing about it is not telling us the truth ... and so it is with almost all topics.


MfG

MU

[Operator]

Ok, guys ... thanks for the replies so far.

Maybe I should clear one thing up a bit. I didn't want to bring this thread as one of negativity and despair.
I am more the kind of guy who fights with whatever is left and I always repair things that are given up by others.

The proper thing to do is damage-report (inventory check) and check what is really broken before you take any additional action.
My main point is: Do we really see what's broken ?

I think Bill said it right before: we came here to do a job, if it was hopeless we probably wouldn't have volunteered.

In order to do our job right we need to interpret the signs correctly and get the damage report right. This thread is my attempt.

[Operator]

Posted by Martin (here)
About chemtrails, well maybe it is some kind of last hope operation to protect "us" or even our "atmosphere" but the wrong thing about it is not telling us the truth ... and so it is with almost all topics.

Exactly my point, thank you. We are left out of the loop ... and are not empowered to do our own damage-report.
However, I realize there are several leadership styles. And democratic leadership isn't suitable for all circumstances (like maybe this one). But not informing the people about
the decisions made is in my opinion an offense to the intelligence of humanity.

until we as the people do not stand up

Well, here's the beginning of a solution ... no revolution but a worldwide demand to be informed the right way. If it comes down to a situation where people are
left to fend for themselves they can at least make informed decisions.

[Operator]

Posted by viking (here)
I believe Bill Cooper to be honest and Genuine.

Bill Cooper was the first who 'shook my tree' ...
I think he was honest and genuine too. He may have been wrong at certain points but later he also accepted the fact that he
may have been lied to. It's hard to accept and admit but that's the only right way to go. We should not cover up our own mistakes !

[Luke]

Good thread Operator!
My take on it:
Guys on the top are preparing for re-seeding. they seem to be sure conditions topside will deteriorate for some time, after that time they will have clean slate to build on their neo-feudal society. Those guys seem to be oblivious to any bigger picture and seem to be stuck in material paradigm.
There are guys who treat this planet as some kind of weapons development programs. Human weapons.
There are guys that just treat this planet as a stepping stone in their agenda. There are guys who treat us as powerplant.

Point is though, all those groups need our consent. Things are not set in stone. Every single one of us has great capability, and with focused intention we can accomplish anything. But it works both ways - enough people focusing on misery will lead to more misery. Enough people focused on apocalypse would bring apocalypse. This is essence of mind war here. All of above guys (bar no.1) know about it and wage worldwide campaign to get things their way.

Materialistic guys only know what their handlers told them.

There are also those who work to pull down the obstacle in natural flow of things situation here become. Those do not work with governments or agencies, because they see it as part of the problem. They work with individuals capable to see things for what they are and consciously make a difference, despite constant programming. And those guys are here, with us.

Hope that makes any sense to you
Cheers!

[Operator]

Posted by Luke (here)
Hope that makes any sense to you

Yes it does, thanks for your input !

Those guys seem to be oblivious to any bigger picture and seem to be stuck in material paradigm.

Ok, here's my additional thought ... the movie Gladiator popped in my mind. It fits the current situation perfectly.

All the individual gladiators are capable fighters but they are cannon fodder to the guys organizing the fights.
Up till the point that the 'general' recognizes the patterns and organizes the individuals to a smooth working team.

TPTB in that situation don't seem to understand the situation either ... they only understand their own 'rituals'.

We're not organized that well ... we are still too much individuals fighting a lone fight. And we're not even behind enemy lines.

[Operator]

Could global awakening be used to by the elite to established there wish for one world government ?

Those guys will take any momentum and convert it into their own benefit like they malformed 'global warming' into carbon tax etc.

One of the reasons I started this thread is on the relation to 'changing DNA' ... Are we all gonna be wonderful ? Or are we being duped again
and are appearing changes not so beneficial ? Of course not everything is a conspiracy but we've been duped too many times.
Be careful what to 'believe' !

[Ba-ba-Ra]

Posted by Luke (here)
Good thread Operator!
My take on it:

Point is though, all those groups need our consent. Things are not set in stone. Every single one of us has great capability, and with focused intention we can accomplish anything. But it works both ways - enough people focusing on misery will lead to more misery. Enough people focused on apocalypse would bring apocalypse. This is essence of mind war here. All of above guys (bar no.1) know about it and wage worldwide campaign to get things their way
Cheers!

Truth is so subjective. Black and white creates either more polarities, or putting ourselves in a box that we now have to defend. Grey is that fine line that a true warrior must walk (Somerset Maughm called it the Razor's Edge) but it can be challenging to stay there because we are constantly being pulled one way or the other. Sufiism says every judgment is a prison bar in our own cell. So, what to do.

I love Luke's idea quoted above: And where's a better place to focus on one dream (positive) then this forum. Perhaps should be a different thread (I'm technology deficient and don't know how to start one ) Or perhaps right here is as good as any. What think you, Operator

[Luke]

Posted by Operator (here)
Those guys will take any momentum and convert it into their own benefit like they malformed 'global warming' into carbon tax etc.
(...)

Actually they follow standard military strategy: both ends against the middle AKA the horns.
See political debate: its compressed to left/right, conservative-liberal spectrum, where status quo is never mentioned and whatever choice is made, it does not change power structure.
We saw that in oil leak situation, when we had controlled mainstream media AND controlled leak of disinformation to alternative ones.
We saw that with 911, where there was official versions and other ones, but only most nutty ones were presented and debunked, branding all conspiracy theorist nutcases. Call that territory denial strategy.
They are very good at throwing ball we follow off the cliff. Sadly, over and over again we are had by the same basic scheme.

[Snowy Owl]

Dr Elisabeth Kubler-Ross has simply deonstrate the 5 phases of Grief once one is in front of an undersarible truth.

She is recognised as pertinent and dûly corroborated

OF course before these 5 stages there are two preconceved stages wich are; stability and immobilisation

*

Shock stage*: Initial paralysis at hearing the bad news.
*

Denial stage: Trying to avoid the inevitable.
*

Anger stage: Frustrated outpouring of bottled-up emotion.
*

Bargaining stage: Seeking in vain for a way out.
*

Depression stage: Final realization of the inevitable.
*

Testing stage*: Seeking realistic solutions.
*

Acceptance stage: Finally finding the way forward.

* This model is extended slightly from the original Kubler-Ross model, which does not explicitly include the Shock and Testing stages. These stages however are often useful to understand and facilitating change.

[Operator]

Posted by Luke (here)
They are very good at throwing ball we follow off the cliff. Sadly, over and over again we are had by the same basic scheme.

Thanks Luke that is exactly the point and topic of this thread ... how much longer are we duped to believe in- and follow themes and at which point do we start to base ourselves
on facts that we gather ourselves ? Of course we are all looking for hope and light at the end of the tunnel. They know that and are more than happy to create that 'light'.

Being fearless is not the same as 'avoid looking at potential fearful cases' it is about being able to control/avoid fear when taking these cases head on !
Focusing on the negative is NOT good but focusing on the positive and forget about the negative is worse ...

Posted by Ba-ba-Ra (here)
And where's a better place to focus on one dream (positive) then this forum. Perhaps should be a different thread (I'm technology deficient and don't know how to start one ) Or perhaps right here is as good as any. What think you, Operator

Well I don't mind at all when people add to this thread, I especially invite you to add and enhance... I want it to be constructive and it should be on topic.
Of course I want a positive outcome too ... but I think our current positive dreams (how can we dream if we need to be awake ?!?) are hooked into/based upon stuff of
unknown/uncommon origin that can insufficiently be verified. Sometimes you have to do the math if the negative will kill you before you reach a safe haven it's not a
good option. Sometimes you have to get rid of the negative before you can allow yourself to dream again.

As said before: it's a fine line, deal with it but don't get drawn into it.

[Operator]

Posted by Snowy Owl (here)
Dr Elisabeth Kubler-Ross has simply deonstrate the 5 phases of Grief once one is in front of an undersarible truth.

Thanks for your input ... yes, the parties controlling things will stay in control because they have access to professionals who understand human behavior all too well.
I can recommend people to watch the documentary "Century of the self". If we don't understand what they throw at us we're just sitting ducks.

If we don't understand our own behavior then how can we determine the outcome of the game.

On the same note ... to come back to Luke's remark

They are very good at throwing ball we follow off the cliff. Sadly, over and over again we are had by the same basic scheme.

We need to understand to in order to change our behavior (to avoid predictable reactions) to learn improve ourselves via the following steps:

1. we do thing unconsciously wrong
2. become conscious when you did it wrong
3. take conscious action to do it right
4. become better and better until you do things even unconsciously right

This thread is about stage2 let's realize we may have been duped on some topics

[Elly]

I also do not think in black or white, good or evil. More towards different shades of gray. The intention behind the action being important.

To follow your thoughts of the beginning, maybe the underground bases are there as temporary shelters from an outer space bacterial plague that could potentially alter the human DNA as to decimate the human population. A recurring theme in Hollywood : Twelve Monkeys, Resident Evil, I am Legend, or ... Pandorum. Without any human intervention...

Whatever the outcome, I think that salvation lies essentially within us. We need to remember who we are and reconnect. That seems like the hardest truth to find.

[Snowy Owl]

As I have previously stated I am a First Nations Person, my land was all around the Great Lake and Northern QUébec, and except New England. I am an OjibWa AlGonquin Medicine Man and yes sometimes Shaman.

In the last 7 years I have work intensively on the international level (I understand and speak many languages) to get gov to get prepare for a devastating pandemic.

The Reason my friends this pandemic Topic was so important to me it is because our Nations had lost 90% of our people because of sometimes willing genocide and sometimes accidentals.

Such an event in a Culture of Oral Tradition allow us to witness the terrible intergenerational impact of such a non describable pandemic decimations.

So yes we do have an experience on this Topic not a Théoric one.

The Great Spirit manifest itself on so many different forms