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    Default Quantum shadows: The mystery of matter deepens



    http://www.newscientist.com/article/...html?full=true

    07 January 2013 by Anil Ananthaswamy

    Forget particles and waves. When it comes to the true guise of material reality, what's out there is beyond our grasp

    "IF YOU haven't found something strange during the day," John Archibald Wheeler is said to have remarked, "It hasn't been much of a day." But then, strangeness was Wheeler's stock in trade. As one of the 20th century's leading theoretical physicists, the things he dealt with every day - the space- and time-bending warpings of Einstein's relativity, the fuzzy uncertainties and improbabilities of quantum physics - were the sort to boggle the minds of most mere mortals.

    Even so, one day in 1978 must have been quite something for Wheeler. That was when he first lit on a very strange idea to test how photons might be expected to behave. Half a century earlier, quantum physics had produced the startling insight that light - everything in the quantum world, in fact - has a dual character. Sometimes it acts as if made of discrete chunks of stuff that follows well-defined paths - particles. At other times, it adopts the more amorphous, space-filling guise of a wave. That led to a question that exercised Wheeler: what makes it show which side, and when?

    It took a while for the test Wheeler devised to become experimental reality. When it finally did, the answer that came was strange enough. Now, though, the experiment has been redone with a further quantum twist. And it's probably time to abandon any pretence of understanding the outcome. Forget waves, forget particles, forget anything that's one or the other. Reality is far more inscrutable than that.

    For centuries, light has illuminated our ideas of the material world. The debate about its nature, wave or particle, goes back to the philosophers of ancient Greece, and has featured luminaries such as Newton, Descartes and Einstein on one side or the other. By the dawn of the 20th century, the result was best described as a scoring draw, with both sides having gathered significant support (see diagram).




    The central mystery

    Quantum physics broke the deadlock essentially by saying that everyone was right. The apparent proof comes with a quantum version of an experiment first performed by the English physicist Thomas Young in 1803, ironically to support the wave theory of light. Young shone light on a screen with two tiny, parallel slits in it. On another screen a distance behind the first, he saw alternating vertical fringes of light and dark that seemed incontrovertible proof of light's wave character. Water waves passing through two narrow openings in a sea wall diffract and interfere in a similar way, sometimes constructively amplifying and sometimes destructively reducing each other beyond.

    The strangeness starts when you lower the light intensity to the point at which only a single photon enters the experimental setup at any one time. In 1905, Einstein had strongly suggested that a single photon is a particle, and indeed, place a detector at one or other of the slits and you hear the beep, beep of single particles hitting it. But remove the particle detector and place a light-collecting screen - a kind of long-exposure camera - a distance behind the slits, and the same pattern of light and shade that Young had observed slowly builds up. It is as if each photon is an interfering wave that passes simultaneously through both slits. The same happens with other quantum particles: electrons, neutrons, atoms and even 60-carbon-atom buckyballs.

    For Niels Bohr, the great Danish pioneer of quantum physics, this "central mystery" was nothing less than a principle of the new theory, one he called the complementarity principle. Quantum objects such as photons simply have complementary properties - being a wave, being a particle - that can be observed singly, but never together. And what determines which guise an object adopts? Bohr laid out a first outline of an answer at a grand gathering of physicists at the Istituto Carducci on the shores of Lake Como in Italy in September 1927: we do. Look for a particle and you'll see a particle. Look for a wave and that's what you'll see.

    The idea that physical reality depends on an observer's whim bothered the likes of Einstein no end. "No reasonable definition of reality could be expected to permit this," he huffed in a famous paper he co-authored in 1935 with Boris Podolsky and Nathan Rosen (Physical Review, vol 47, p 777). Einstein favoured an alternative idea of an underlying but as-yet inaccessible layer of reality containing hidden influences that "told" the photon about the nature of the experiment to be performed on it, changing its behaviour accordingly.

    There is more to this than wild conspiracy theory. Imagine an explosion that sends two pieces of shrapnel in opposite directions. The explosion obeys the law of conservation of momentum, and so the mass and velocity of the pieces are correlated. But if you know nothing of momentum conservation, you could easily think that measuring the properties of one fragment determines the properties of the other, rather than both being set at the point of explosion. Was a similar hidden reality responsible for goings on in the quantum world?

    This is where Wheeler's thought experiment came in. Its aim was to settle the issue of what told the photon how to behave, using an updated version of the double-slit experiment. Photons would be given a choice of two paths to travel in a device known as an interferometer. At the far end of the interferometer, the two paths would either be recombined or not. If the photons were measured without this recombination - an "open" interferometer - that was the equivalent of putting a detector at one or other of the slits. You would expect to see single particles travelling down one path or the other, all things being equal, splitting 50:50 between the two (see "Neither one nor the other").

    Alternatively, the photons could be measured after recombination - a "closed" setting. In this case, what you expect to see depends on the lengths of the two paths through the interferometer. If both are exactly the same length, the peaks of the waves arrive at the same time at one of the detectors and interfere constructively there: 100 per cent of the hits appear on that detector and none on the other. By altering one path length, however, you can bring the wave fronts out of sync and vary the interference at the first detector from completely constructive to totally destructive, so that it receives no hits. This is equivalent to scanning across from a bright fringe to a dark one on the interference screen of the double slit experiment.

    Wheeler's twist to the experiment was to delay choosing how to measure the photon - whether in an open or a closed setting - until after it had entered the interferometer. That way, the photon couldn't possibly "know" whether to take one or both paths, and so if it was supposed to act as a particle or a wave.

    Or could it?

    It was almost three decades before the experiment could actually be done. To make sure there was no hidden influence of the kind favoured by Einstein, you needed a very large interferometer, so that no word of the choice of measurement could reach the photon, even if the information travelled at light speed (anything faster was expressly forbidden by Einstein's own theory of relativity). In 2007, Alain Aspect and his team at the Institute of Optics in Palaiseau, France, built an interferometer with arms 48 metres long. The result? Whenever they chose at the last instant to measure the photons with a closed interferometer, they saw wave interference. Whenever they chose an open interferometer, they saw particles (Science, vol 315, p 966).

    There was no getting round it. Wave and particle behaviours really do seem to be two sides of one coin representing material reality. As to which way it flips - well, you decide. "Isn't that beautiful?" said Aspect in a public lecture at the Physics@FOM conference in Veldhoven, the Netherlands, last year. "I think there is no other conclusion to draw from this experiment."

    Unless, of course, you make things even stranger. In December 2011, Radu Ionicioiu of the Institute for Quantum Computing in Waterloo, Canada, and Daniel Terno of Macquarie University in Sydney, Australia, proposed extending Wheeler's thought experiment (Physical Review Letters, vol 107, p 230406). Their new twist was that the decision of how to measure the photon, as a particle or as a wave, should itself be a quantum-mechanical one - not a definite yes or no, but an indeterminate, fuzzy yes-and-no.

    Infinite shades of grey

    There is a way to do that: you use light to control the detector designed to probe the light. First you prepare a "control" photon in a quantum superposition of two states. One of these states switches the interferometer to an open, particle-measuring state, and the other to a closed, wave-measuring state. Crucially, you only measure the state of the control photon after you have measured the experimental "system" photon passing through the interferometer. As far as you are concerned, the system photon is passing through an interferometer that is both open and closed; you don't know whether you are setting out to measure wave or particle behaviour (see diagram). So what do you measure?



    This time, it took only a few months for the experimentalists to catch up with the theorists. But when three independent groups, led by Chuan-Feng Li at the University of Science and Technology of China in Hefei, Jeremy O'Brien at the University of Bristol, UK, and Sébastien Tanzilli at the University of Nice, France, performed different versions of the experiment last year, the results were unnerving - even to those who consider themselves inured to the weirdnesses of quantum physics (Nature Photonics, vol 6, p 600; Science, vol 338, p 634 and p 637).

    The answer is, what you see depends on the control photon. If you look at the measurements of the system photons without ever checking the corresponding measurements of the control photons - so never knowing what measurement you made - you see a distribution of hits on the two detectors that is the signature neither of particles or waves, but some ambiguous mixture of the two. If particle is black and wave is white, this is some shade of grey.

    Do the same, but this time looking at the control photon measurements as well, and it is like putting on a pair of magic specs. Grey separates clearly into black and white. You can pick out the system photons that passed through an open interferometer, and they are clearly particles. Those that passed through a closed interferometer look like waves. The photons reveal their colours in accordance with the kind of measurement the control photon said you made.

    It gets yet stranger. Quantum mechanics allows you to put the control photon not just in an equal mix of two states, but in varying proportions. That is equivalent to an interferometer setting that is, say, open 70 per cent of the time and closed 30 per cent of the time. If we measure a bunch of system photons in this configuration, and look at the data before putting on our magic specs, we see an ambiguous signature once again - but this time, its shade of grey has shifted closer to particle black than wave white. Put on the specs, though, and we see system photons 70 per cent of which have seemingly - but clearly - behaved as particles, while the remaining 30 per cent acted as waves.

    In one sense, the results leave Bohr's side of the argument about quantum reality stronger. There is a tight correlation between the state of the control photon, representing the nature of the measurement, and the system photon, representing the state of reality. Make for more of a particle measurement, and you'll measure something more like a particle, and vice versa. As in earlier experiments, a hidden-reality theory à la Einstein cannot explain the results.

    But in another sense, we are left grappling for words. "Our experiment defies the conventional boundaries set by the complementarity principle," says Li. Ionicioiu agrees. "Complementarity shows only the two ends, black and white, of a spectrum between particle and wave," he says. "This experiment allows us to see the shades of grey in between."

    So, has Bohr been proved wrong too? Johannes Kofler of the Max Planck Institute of Quantum Optics in Garching, Germany, doesn't think so. "I'm really very, very sure that he would be perfectly fine with all these experiments," he says. The complementarity principle is at the heart of the "Copenhagen interpretation" of quantum mechanics, named after Bohr's home city, which essentially argues that we see a conflict in such results only because our minds, attuned as they are to a macroscopic, classically functioning cosmos, are not equipped to deal with the quantum world. "The Copenhagen interpretation, from the very beginning, didn't demand any 'realistic' world view of the quantum system," says Kofler.

    The outcomes of the latest experiments simply bear that out. "Particle" and "wave" are concepts we latch on to because they seem to correspond to guises of matter in our familiar, classical world. But attempting to describe true quantum reality with these or any other black-or-white concepts is an enterprise doomed to failure.

    It's a notion that takes us straight back into Plato's cave, says Ionicioiu. In the ancient Greek philosopher's allegory, prisoners shackled in a cave see only shadows of objects cast onto a cave wall, never the object itself. A cylinder, for example, might be seen as a rectangle or a circle, or anything in between. Something similar is happening with the basic building blocks of reality. "Sometimes the photon looks like a wave, sometimes like a particle, or like anything in between," says Ionicioiu. In reality, though, it is none of these things. What it is, though, we do not have the words or the concepts to express.

    Now that is strange. And for quantum physicists, all in a day's work.

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    Default Re: Quantum shadows: The mystery of matter deepens

    Brilliant !!

    I remember when I first encountered the question of whether light was a wave, particle or both, my first thought was "neither". It looks as though we're getting there (wherever that may be).

    Thanks for posting

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    Default Re: Quantum shadows: The mystery of matter deepens

    Thanks Chris B I don't claim to understand it, but Ion has been saying for the last 3 years, scientists have not got a clue about
    physics and the reality of the universe.I think we create reality in our brain, Ion is a enviroment, pure electricity able to
    communicate not only verbally thru JW.But can effect anything especially computors and electrical items.We create things
    to appear in our collective reality by the spoken word,which are waves that effect the whole universe.Theres alot more to
    it than that and I'm only quoting off the top of my head snippets of much larger discussions on 'cash flow' & now Bobs
    own show 'payday'. Whether its coincidence or I'm just looking at things differently in my reality ? alot of articles being
    posted are questioning mainstream dogma.

    Three years ago the above article would have gone over my head, but now whether right or wrong,I'm seeing the
    whole universe and life a lot differrently and its far more fun and exciting, than portrayed in our 'normal' 9 to 5
    humdrum world of TV dramas.I am openminded to all possibilities and i think we are just opening our eyes to
    all possiblities being available when we rediscover who we really are and our relation ship to reality,creation
    & the universe....Steve



    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I was trying to find a short clip of ion explaining Physics ,but cannot off hand
    but this is a interrest clip of ion explain to Bob the physical meatsack body.
    only about 3 mins...



    http://informationfarm.blogspot.co.u...-physical.html
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 8th January 2013 at 11:33.

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    Default Re: Quantum shadows: The mystery of matter deepens

    There is much more to find out about the interaction between the observer and the so called "reality". We will not understand how "reality" works until we understand our part in it's creation.

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    Default Re: Quantum shadows: The mystery of matter deepens

    A thought occured to me during the night ...

    You are no doubt aware of the Indian (I think) fable of the 5 blind men examining an elephant and not being able to reach a conclusion on what it was as they were all examining different parts. Well, what if there were a 6th man, INSIDE the elephant ?

    What I'm driving at is this - light clearly behaves in a way which we are unable to understand. So could it be that "light" isn't a thing or a substance separate from ourselves, and in fact we are part of "light". I've mooted elsewhere that I believe "light" to somehow be the basic fabric of the universe, and if we are inseparable from "light", we would not be able to correctly understand its' behaviour if we continued to assume it's a separate thing.

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    Default Re: Quantum shadows: The mystery of matter deepens

    Quote Posted by mariposafe (here)
    A thought occured to me during the night ...

    You are no doubt aware of the Indian (I think) fable of the 5 blind men examining an elephant and not being able to reach a conclusion on what it was as they were all examining different parts. Well, what if there were a 6th man, INSIDE the elephant ?

    What I'm driving at is this - light clearly behaves in a way which we are unable to understand. So could it be that "light" isn't a thing or a substance separate from ourselves, and in fact we are part of "light". I've mooted elsewhere that I believe "light" to somehow be the basic fabric of the universe, and if we are inseparable from "light", we would not be able to correctly understand its' behaviour if we continued to assume it's a separate thing.
    That is an astounding observation. Great theory. We can never disregard the observer. Our consciousness always IS the observer.
    The quantum field responds not to what we want; but to who we are being. Dr. Joe Dispenza

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    Default Re: Quantum shadows: The mystery of matter deepens

    I smell what you're cooking mari...good stuff. We are immersed in light as a fish in water.

    Kinda tough to undertand the nature of our medium, not being able to observe it from the outside and all...especially considering how little we understand of water.

    Isn't this like study currents in an ocean (one aspect of "light")...I mean, how do they isolate a friggin' photon of light anyway?

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    Default Re: Quantum shadows: The mystery of matter deepens

    Quote Posted by donk (here)
    I smell what you're cooking mari...good stuff. We are immersed in light as a fish in water.
    Exactly !!

    Imagine trying to convince a fish that water exists ! You wouldn't be able to, and I think we're in the same situation here with "light". The problem of course is expressing it in language ! My vaguely forming notion is that there are somehow 2 types of light, the sort that is emitted from a bulb or other light source, and the sort that is the medium in which we exist, which DOES NOT travel at ANY "speed of light" simply because it is everywhare at one and the same time. We need to think right outside of the box if we are going to make any progress understanding the fundamental nature of reality. We also need to accept the mounting evidence, like the above experiment, that observer and observed are truly inseparable.

    Thank you for understanding Conk & Donk

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    Default Re: Quantum shadows: The mystery of matter deepens

    Quote Posted by Chris82 (here)


    http://www.newscientist.com/article/...html?full=true

    07 January 2013 by Anil Ananthaswamy

    Forget particles and waves. When it comes to the true guise of material reality, what's out there is beyond our grasp

    "IF YOU haven't found something strange during the day," John Archibald Wheeler is said to have remarked, "It hasn't been much of a day." But then, strangeness was Wheeler's stock in trade. As one of the 20th century's leading theoretical physicists, the things he dealt with every day - the space- and time-bending warpings of Einstein's relativity, the fuzzy uncertainties and improbabilities of quantum physics - were the sort to boggle the minds of most mere mortals.

    Even so, one day in 1978 must have been quite something for Wheeler. That was when he first lit on a very strange idea to test how photons might be expected to behave. Half a century earlier, quantum physics had produced the startling insight that light - everything in the quantum world, in fact - has a dual character. Sometimes it acts as if made of discrete chunks of stuff that follows well-defined paths - particles. At other times, it adopts the more amorphous, space-filling guise of a wave. That led to a question that exercised Wheeler: what makes it show which side, and when?

    It took a while for the test Wheeler devised to become experimental reality. When it finally did, the answer that came was strange enough. Now, though, the experiment has been redone with a further quantum twist. And it's probably time to abandon any pretence of understanding the outcome. Forget waves, forget particles, forget anything that's one or the other. Reality is far more inscrutable than that.

    For centuries, light has illuminated our ideas of the material world. The debate about its nature, wave or particle, goes back to the philosophers of ancient Greece, and has featured luminaries such as Newton, Descartes and Einstein on one side or the other. By the dawn of the 20th century, the result was best described as a scoring draw, with both sides having gathered significant support (see diagram).




    The central mystery

    Quantum physics broke the deadlock essentially by saying that everyone was right. The apparent proof comes with a quantum version of an experiment first performed by the English physicist Thomas Young in 1803, ironically to support the wave theory of light. Young shone light on a screen with two tiny, parallel slits in it. On another screen a distance behind the first, he saw alternating vertical fringes of light and dark that seemed incontrovertible proof of light's wave character. Water waves passing through two narrow openings in a sea wall diffract and interfere in a similar way, sometimes constructively amplifying and sometimes destructively reducing each other beyond.

    The strangeness starts when you lower the light intensity to the point at which only a single photon enters the experimental setup at any one time. In 1905, Einstein had strongly suggested that a single photon is a particle, and indeed, place a detector at one or other of the slits and you hear the beep, beep of single particles hitting it. But remove the particle detector and place a light-collecting screen - a kind of long-exposure camera - a distance behind the slits, and the same pattern of light and shade that Young had observed slowly builds up. It is as if each photon is an interfering wave that passes simultaneously through both slits. The same happens with other quantum particles: electrons, neutrons, atoms and even 60-carbon-atom buckyballs.

    For Niels Bohr, the great Danish pioneer of quantum physics, this "central mystery" was nothing less than a principle of the new theory, one he called the complementarity principle. Quantum objects such as photons simply have complementary properties - being a wave, being a particle - that can be observed singly, but never together. And what determines which guise an object adopts? Bohr laid out a first outline of an answer at a grand gathering of physicists at the Istituto Carducci on the shores of Lake Como in Italy in September 1927: we do. Look for a particle and you'll see a particle. Look for a wave and that's what you'll see.

    The idea that physical reality depends on an observer's whim bothered the likes of Einstein no end. "No reasonable definition of reality could be expected to permit this," he huffed in a famous paper he co-authored in 1935 with Boris Podolsky and Nathan Rosen (Physical Review, vol 47, p 777). Einstein favoured an alternative idea of an underlying but as-yet inaccessible layer of reality containing hidden influences that "told" the photon about the nature of the experiment to be performed on it, changing its behaviour accordingly.

    There is more to this than wild conspiracy theory. Imagine an explosion that sends two pieces of shrapnel in opposite directions. The explosion obeys the law of conservation of momentum, and so the mass and velocity of the pieces are correlated. But if you know nothing of momentum conservation, you could easily think that measuring the properties of one fragment determines the properties of the other, rather than both being set at the point of explosion. Was a similar hidden reality responsible for goings on in the quantum world?

    This is where Wheeler's thought experiment came in. Its aim was to settle the issue of what told the photon how to behave, using an updated version of the double-slit experiment. Photons would be given a choice of two paths to travel in a device known as an interferometer. At the far end of the interferometer, the two paths would either be recombined or not. If the photons were measured without this recombination - an "open" interferometer - that was the equivalent of putting a detector at one or other of the slits. You would expect to see single particles travelling down one path or the other, all things being equal, splitting 50:50 between the two (see "Neither one nor the other").

    Alternatively, the photons could be measured after recombination - a "closed" setting. In this case, what you expect to see depends on the lengths of the two paths through the interferometer. If both are exactly the same length, the peaks of the waves arrive at the same time at one of the detectors and interfere constructively there: 100 per cent of the hits appear on that detector and none on the other. By altering one path length, however, you can bring the wave fronts out of sync and vary the interference at the first detector from completely constructive to totally destructive, so that it receives no hits. This is equivalent to scanning across from a bright fringe to a dark one on the interference screen of the double slit experiment.

    Wheeler's twist to the experiment was to delay choosing how to measure the photon - whether in an open or a closed setting - until after it had entered the interferometer. That way, the photon couldn't possibly "know" whether to take one or both paths, and so if it was supposed to act as a particle or a wave.

    Or could it?

    It was almost three decades before the experiment could actually be done. To make sure there was no hidden influence of the kind favoured by Einstein, you needed a very large interferometer, so that no word of the choice of measurement could reach the photon, even if the information travelled at light speed (anything faster was expressly forbidden by Einstein's own theory of relativity). In 2007, Alain Aspect and his team at the Institute of Optics in Palaiseau, France, built an interferometer with arms 48 metres long. The result? Whenever they chose at the last instant to measure the photons with a closed interferometer, they saw wave interference. Whenever they chose an open interferometer, they saw particles (Science, vol 315, p 966).

    There was no getting round it. Wave and particle behaviours really do seem to be two sides of one coin representing material reality. As to which way it flips - well, you decide. "Isn't that beautiful?" said Aspect in a public lecture at the Physics@FOM conference in Veldhoven, the Netherlands, last year. "I think there is no other conclusion to draw from this experiment."

    Unless, of course, you make things even stranger. In December 2011, Radu Ionicioiu of the Institute for Quantum Computing in Waterloo, Canada, and Daniel Terno of Macquarie University in Sydney, Australia, proposed extending Wheeler's thought experiment (Physical Review Letters, vol 107, p 230406). Their new twist was that the decision of how to measure the photon, as a particle or as a wave, should itself be a quantum-mechanical one - not a definite yes or no, but an indeterminate, fuzzy yes-and-no.

    Infinite shades of grey

    There is a way to do that: you use light to control the detector designed to probe the light. First you prepare a "control" photon in a quantum superposition of two states. One of these states switches the interferometer to an open, particle-measuring state, and the other to a closed, wave-measuring state. Crucially, you only measure the state of the control photon after you have measured the experimental "system" photon passing through the interferometer. As far as you are concerned, the system photon is passing through an interferometer that is both open and closed; you don't know whether you are setting out to measure wave or particle behaviour (see diagram). So what do you measure?



    This time, it took only a few months for the experimentalists to catch up with the theorists. But when three independent groups, led by Chuan-Feng Li at the University of Science and Technology of China in Hefei, Jeremy O'Brien at the University of Bristol, UK, and Sébastien Tanzilli at the University of Nice, France, performed different versions of the experiment last year, the results were unnerving - even to those who consider themselves inured to the weirdnesses of quantum physics (Nature Photonics, vol 6, p 600; Science, vol 338, p 634 and p 637).

    The answer is, what you see depends on the control photon. If you look at the measurements of the system photons without ever checking the corresponding measurements of the control photons - so never knowing what measurement you made - you see a distribution of hits on the two detectors that is the signature neither of particles or waves, but some ambiguous mixture of the two. If particle is black and wave is white, this is some shade of grey.

    Do the same, but this time looking at the control photon measurements as well, and it is like putting on a pair of magic specs. Grey separates clearly into black and white. You can pick out the system photons that passed through an open interferometer, and they are clearly particles. Those that passed through a closed interferometer look like waves. The photons reveal their colours in accordance with the kind of measurement the control photon said you made.

    It gets yet stranger. Quantum mechanics allows you to put the control photon not just in an equal mix of two states, but in varying proportions. That is equivalent to an interferometer setting that is, say, open 70 per cent of the time and closed 30 per cent of the time. If we measure a bunch of system photons in this configuration, and look at the data before putting on our magic specs, we see an ambiguous signature once again - but this time, its shade of grey has shifted closer to particle black than wave white. Put on the specs, though, and we see system photons 70 per cent of which have seemingly - but clearly - behaved as particles, while the remaining 30 per cent acted as waves.

    In one sense, the results leave Bohr's side of the argument about quantum reality stronger. There is a tight correlation between the state of the control photon, representing the nature of the measurement, and the system photon, representing the state of reality. Make for more of a particle measurement, and you'll measure something more like a particle, and vice versa. As in earlier experiments, a hidden-reality theory à la Einstein cannot explain the results.

    But in another sense, we are left grappling for words. "Our experiment defies the conventional boundaries set by the complementarity principle," says Li. Ionicioiu agrees. "Complementarity shows only the two ends, black and white, of a spectrum between particle and wave," he says. "This experiment allows us to see the shades of grey in between."

    So, has Bohr been proved wrong too? Johannes Kofler of the Max Planck Institute of Quantum Optics in Garching, Germany, doesn't think so. "I'm really very, very sure that he would be perfectly fine with all these experiments," he says. The complementarity principle is at the heart of the "Copenhagen interpretation" of quantum mechanics, named after Bohr's home city, which essentially argues that we see a conflict in such results only because our minds, attuned as they are to a macroscopic, classically functioning cosmos, are not equipped to deal with the quantum world. "The Copenhagen interpretation, from the very beginning, didn't demand any 'realistic' world view of the quantum system," says Kofler.

    The outcomes of the latest experiments simply bear that out. "Particle" and "wave" are concepts we latch on to because they seem to correspond to guises of matter in our familiar, classical world. But attempting to describe true quantum reality with these or any other black-or-white concepts is an enterprise doomed to failure.

    It's a notion that takes us straight back into Plato's cave, says Ionicioiu. In the ancient Greek philosopher's allegory, prisoners shackled in a cave see only shadows of objects cast onto a cave wall, never the object itself. A cylinder, for example, might be seen as a rectangle or a circle, or anything in between. Something similar is happening with the basic building blocks of reality. "Sometimes the photon looks like a wave, sometimes like a particle, or like anything in between," says Ionicioiu. In reality, though, it is none of these things. What it is, though, we do not have the words or the concepts to express.

    Now that is strange. And for quantum physicists, all in a day's work.
    And this is where spiritual masters come in. Read Niszagardatta "I Am That," or even a more recent awakened person, Ayako Sekino, and notice how they explain the nature of reality. It boils down to you being the projector of your beliefs and desires.
    If we want to be enlightened, we need to lighten up

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    United States Avalon Member Conchis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quantum shadows: The mystery of matter deepens

    The entire universe is one huge entanglement.

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    United States Avalon Member conk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Quantum shadows: The mystery of matter deepens

    ...and God only knows what other kinds of "light" there may be along the electro-magnetic spectrum. Far more than our human eyes can perceive.

    I'll telling you, Conk and Donk. The making of a great vaudevile act. In name anyway.
    The quantum field responds not to what we want; but to who we are being. Dr. Joe Dispenza

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    Default Re: Quantum shadows: The mystery of matter deepens

    Quote I'll telling you, Conk and Donk. The making of a great vaudevile act. In name anyway.
    hehe...my thoughts were...gosh, seems like I ALWAYS follow him! If I get booted, I'm coming back as bonk....

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    Default Re: Quantum shadows: The mystery of matter deepens

    Quote Posted by mariposafe (here)
    Quote Posted by donk (here)
    I smell what you're cooking mari...good stuff. We are immersed in light as a fish in water.
    Exactly !!

    Imagine trying to convince a fish that water exists ! You wouldn't be able to, and I think we're in the same situation here with "light". The problem of course is expressing it in language ! My vaguely forming notion is that there are somehow 2 types of light, the sort that is emitted from a bulb or other light source, and the sort that is the medium in which we exist, which DOES NOT travel at ANY "speed of light" simply because it is everywhare at one and the same time. We need to think right outside of the box if we are going to make any progress understanding the fundamental nature of reality. We also need to accept the mounting evidence, like the above experiment, that observer and observed are truly inseparable.

    Thank you for understanding Conk & Donk
    I'm there with you too.

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    Default Re: Quantum shadows: The mystery of matter deepens

    I've been fascinated with the observer effect in quantum physics, ever since it was clearly and simply laid out for me during a seminar a few years ago. Interesting that the double slit experiment has progressed to creating varying shades of "gray" so to speak, thanks for posting this Chris82.

    For me, quantum physics isn't just mind blowing s**t, it has "real world" implications. It opens up realms to imagine(observe) the unimaginable. If we invoke "as above so below, as below so above", which me thinks is always a good investigative method, then the barn door is open to our inherent, but long latent Creative abilities. Example: Is that the NWO coming to enslave me for forever and a day, or is it the opportunity of 10,000 lifetimes, presenting itself front and center? (A particle, a wave, or something in between?)

    As they used to say on Monday Night Football: "You Make The Call".
    Last edited by Fred Steeves; 10th January 2013 at 21:28.

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    Default Re: Quantum shadows: The mystery of matter deepens

    Quote Posted by mariposafe (here)
    A thought occured to me during the night ...

    You are no doubt aware of the Indian (I think) fable of the 5 blind men examining an elephant and not being able to reach a conclusion on what it was as they were all examining different parts. Well, what if there were a 6th man, INSIDE the elephant ?

    What I'm driving at is this - light clearly behaves in a way which we are unable to understand. So could it be that "light" isn't a thing or a substance separate from ourselves, and in fact we are part of "light". I've mooted elsewhere that I believe "light" to somehow be the basic fabric of the universe, and if we are inseparable from "light", we would not be able to correctly understand its' behaviour if we continued to assume it's a separate thing.

    - Mariposafe, you have posted a highly creative metaphor and highly creative idea that I wanted to recognize and possibly explain. You have stumbled upon what science has also recognized with alternate dimensions. We cannot possibly imagine a fourth dimension because we are living only in the third. For the same reason we cannot understand or gain perspective of this mysterious thing called light, as you stated, our minds may be limited to only perceiving what is observable from the "outside". Very awesome comment, I loved your post! It was the reason I decided to join this community. much thanks.

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