Is the counterculture today doing a better job than the counterculture in the 60s and 70s?

[arwen]

Hi again folks - Bill just alerted me to the fact that the link to the main site I provided in my post above does not work for him. It is odd, as it works for me, and a few friends have checked for me, and it works for them.

I found another alternate link with the same article, which worked for Bill, so if the first link does not work for you, try this one.

It is a long article, but WELL worth the read, and really hits the spot for me in my personal and professional experience of how so much is controlled, by whom, and in what way. We cannot succeed if we do not face these facts.

If you would like a synopsis of all that data, there is a really good 20 minute video summary, and it has very pleasant music in the background to help with not being pulled down by the data, which is heavy to confront. Some of the slides have a lot of data, so recommend hitting "pause" for those to read through them.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=fa3Eb6pIgGE

[sijohn]

A quick clarification from Bill if possible , the first chance you refer to 2000 years ago , I take to be the advent of Jesus/Christian teachings am I correct

Thank you

Sijohn

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by sijohn (here)
A quick clarification from Bill if possible , the first chance you refer to 2000 years ago , I take to be the advent of Jesus/Christian teachings am I correct

Thank you

Sijohn

Yes. I do see that as a heroic attempt to take back the planet... which was ruthlessly crushed by the Romans (the NWO of their day). Jesus' original teachings were commandeered, filtered, and significantly altered by the early Roman Church.

A small group of Gnostics over the centuries has worked hard to keep that original flame alive, which has been assisted greatly by the 1945 discovery of the Nag Hammadi scrolls. In those, the ancients warned us about the Archons, their Greek name for an invisible, evil, covert, pervasive influence that subverted everything that was good and wonderful about the human race and its potential. They warned us that the Archons were the true enemy of everything that we held to be beautiful and important.

Whatever the nature (or the name) of that influence, it's still here.

[sommervr]

These counter culture energies keep getting spun off into unproductive areas. The PTB seem to be masters of spinning the winds of change back into the self. You might be changing but they have the collective consciousness locked up so nothing happens at a macro level.

It sounds trite but what is killing us is effective marketing. What we all think we want is not what we need for the vast majority. The path to what we need is fraught with real life dangers and consequences. I am as guilty of skirting the hard path as anyone.

I think most persons that wont confront obvious things like 9/11 are just "noping out" at an earlier stage than the rest of us "enlightened" ones. Following hard truths with effective action is the stumbling block for me. All other paths lead inward and spin into self and nothing.

[Inmortal719]

Posted by Lancet (here)
point 3
The hippie movement was cool and that was why it gained that sizeable following. currently i think there are many young ppl following counter culture, ETs. god knows how popular the Xfiles, star wars were during my teens. there is a latent awareness that something else is out there and we are not alone. The problem is accessibility to that information. A suggestion is PA on facebook, PA on apps, android and mac, and maybe even twitter! It sounds superficial, but it may be a way to bring the info to them. these mediums are hip and cool today and they can be considered a type of mainstream media.. one wrong tweet and it goes viral... and quite a lot of ppl are on it.


JT

I don't agree in point 3, PA everywhere can draw to much attention to ourselves and could endanger us and what we've build so far, you know how media can manipulate information and we could easily be pointed out as something else if we make too much noise... We should stay in the underground and work from there..

[Neal]

Thanks Bill for starting this important discussion. On an aside, I think this would be a great topic for a future Avalon Audio conference!

Personally, I see the counterculture today as being *more* effective simply because it has been decentralized. There are no central/vocal/popular figures, except Alex Jones or David Icke as you mentioned, and this is a good thing! That means the message is more likely to be passed around by people who don't want the spotlight and are therefore less likely to be influenced or controlled.

Wasn't the message of the 60's and 70's to have Peace on Earth/World Peace? I think this is something that people mistake for meaning that they can positively influence the whole world on their own. We simply cannot, but we can influence our surroundings. My "world" does not have the things in the news as part of it - my "world" has things like being able to influence/wish/create your own universe, to positively build-up and influence those around us through my actions and the things I talk about. I am aware of the bad things going on in the world, but I strive to give my energy and time to making things better for everybody around me. And I think that is the big difference between then and now. The Internet has certainly allowed people to wake up and having events like 9/11, 7/7, Newtown, etc. happen only causes more to wake up to reality.

I just hope people don't get trapped in the layers and layers of deception that exist once they wake up. It's a quagmire out there! I am certain the tide is turning as even the most stubborn people I know now are seeing the light and viewing the world differently, except they have to do it on their own and everybody has a different thing that wakes them up/gets their attention.

Even my wife, who has steadfastly held to her beliefs is slowing waking up to reality; seeking alternative healing techniques, seeing that she and I are sharing thoughts/reading each others thoughts, starting to guard her mind against the bad thoughts about herself and her past that continue to come back to her again and again.

If she can do this, anybody can and that is what tells me this time is different!

[johnh]

Yes. I do see that as a heroic attempt to take back the planet... which was ruthlessly crushed by the Romans (the NWO of their day). Jesus' original teachings were commandeered, filtered, and significantly altered by the early Roman Church.

A large butterfly in Ecuador has flapped its wings and my spirit is rejuvenated. How can this be but by the mystery of the Grace of God. May this old body bear the gift. Back on task.

The devolution: the protectors became the guardians who became the guards who became the jailers who became the predators.

[Selkie]

Posted by johnh (here)

Yes. I do see that as a heroic attempt to take back the planet... which was ruthlessly crushed by the Romans (the NWO of their day). Jesus' original teachings were commandeered, filtered, and significantly altered by the early Roman Church.

A large butterfly in Ecuador has flapped its wings and my spirit is rejuvenated. How can this be but by the mystery of the Grace of God. May this old body bear the gift. Back on task.

The devolution: the protectors became the guardians who became the guards who became the jailers who became the predators.

Yes, and don't forget about the Cathars. There was a HUGE counterculture in Europe from around 1100 to 1300 AD, which again was ruthlessly crushed by the Roman Catholic Church.

[Apophenia]

The Roman Catholic Church is a continuation of a priesthood who has existed since the days of the Ancient Sumerians/Egyptians, and its more modern face is indeed that church, as well as Prodestantism and its seldom acknowledged mystery school offspring; the Free Masons.

Gnosticism in ANY incarnation that it is found in, whether it be the Ophites, Essenes, the Nag Hammadi library, or the Pistis Sophia; are merely another side of the same stories that were edited or changed for whatever relevant purpose of their time-frame.

What most people here routinely misunderstand is that the G in Free Masonry stands for GNOSIS, the same kind of which was claimed in ancient societies to be given by dragons, serpent beings, or the serpent in the garden of Eden.

Only in the Nag Hammadi text, outside a few random folklore tales; do we get the description of upright, lizard or serpent beings.

The concept of the Monad, which is supposed to apparently represent infinite love and light that exists behind the Demiurge; the creator of the Archons, appears all too immediately like a replacing of the biblical 'savior and devil' figures with 'monad and demiurge' or 'humanity and serpent', the latter of which is present in all pre-monotheistic societies. The fact said entity can exist alongside the Demiurge is something that isn't adequately explained in any incarnation of Gnostic texts, the Nag Hammadi library included.

The concept of a Demiurge itself is borrowed from Neoplatonism, which in turn took the idea from the mystery schools of Egypt and Sumeria. Anybody who has studied Plotinus and Plato should know this by now.

Free Masons themselves, regardless of whether or not they are engaged in truth-telling in their quest for knowledge, or are skillful liars as part of the NWO; they inherited this from the old priesthood that partook in both Egypt and Sumer in ancient times.

They are self-described Gnostics and followers of Christianity for the most part, and are behind much of the occult symbolism that finds its way into every facet of human society. The same group that also owns Hollywood and churns out an enormous array of anti-Reptilian imagery, symbolism, and which influenced if not put in place people like Zechariah Sitchin, who's very 'studies' into the ancient world brought us many of the concepts that David Icke and others routinely espouse.

I am genuinely surprised anyone can rationalize any real semblance of an attempt to rebel against these forces given the bigger picture here, especially since certain 'rebel forces' have overlaps with the very entities they claim to be against.

[Selkie]

Well, for me, the gnostic idea of the Originator says it all. If you are a "being" of total love, like the Originator, then literally EVERYTHING is good, even the Demiurge. The Demiurge is a problem for us, not for the Originator.

[Alien Ramone]

Posted by Selkie (here)
I don't necessarily think that the counter-culture failed at all. As a matter of fact, I think it succeeded...wildly so. The fact that gays and lesbians are now allowed to marry is a huge sign of that. So is the fact that an African American (possibly a gay/transgender) couple are President and First Lady of the United States is another. So is the fact that a woman was Secretary of State in the US. So is the fact that woman can legally have abortions, and that birth control is readily available to everyone who wants it. So is the fact that women are now CEOs of huge corporations, and make up the ranks of engineers, scientists, airline pilots, etc.

I agree that this stuff is a huge distraction,

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
...But we are (in my opinion) WAY WAY WAY too preoccupied with (and often diverted and distracted by) ethereal concepts like 'Wave X', CERN (I am NOT convinced, at all, that it's anything other than a supercollider), the possible mystical effects of comets and Blood Moons, channeled messages from 'Ascended Masters', unprovable subjective recall and perception, and multidimensional phenomena that may or may not have any reality at all.

probably cooked up by the same folks who cooked up the counter culture in the first place.

Why do I say that? Because while the counter-culture has succeeded in revamping our values, the Establishment keeps right on rolling, untouched, with more war-for-profit all the time, not to mention GMOs, vaccines, chemtrails...you get the idea

So it looks to me like the counter-culture, itself, was a huge distraction...the biggest distraction ever, maybe. And it succeeded because it had something real to offer a lot of people. It never would have worked as a distraction from the real problem, which is war-for-profit and the steady erosion of real freedoms, if it hadn't.

addition The fact that all of the young people who were key players in the counter-cultural "revolution" are members of very high-ranking Intelligence and military families should be a huge red flag, and to me is a huge tell.

Above, Selkie did a great summary of ways that the 60s and 70s counterculture succeeded.

I think part of the reason for the success related to the ending of the Vietnam War is that there was a draft at the time, creating an incentive for those who were going to be put in harms way against their will to actively protest the war. It took some time for the Powers That Be to get the sentiment for war going again with the Ford and Carter Administrations basically refraining from war and then the Reagan Administration engaging in a quick easily won war in Grenada that people could get behind.

I also agree with the additional point that Selkie made considering that there doesn't seem to have been the same reaction to the recent wars that there was to the Vietnam War by many of those who were in the counterculture opposed to the Vietnam War. Most mainstream Republicans and Democrats seem that they will support their parties in any war that is promoted, even if those supporters were against the Vietnam War. I don't think the anti-war sentiment will reach the pitch that it did in the 60s and 70s without a draft.



Although the 60s and 70s counterculture had its successes and some realization that corporate interests and the Military Industrial Complex were influencing government, there didn't seem to be the awareness of what is really going on that some in today's counterculture have. Back in 2008, I feel that we were on the edge of getting involved in a war with Iran involving an Iranian blockade of the Strait of Hormuz, skyrocketing oil prices, and a full economic collapse giving an excuse for the government to move quickly toward martial law and complete control with the big banks instituting whatever new money system that they wanted. Although the warnings of these type of things seemed crazy to many people, many had heard the warnings through the internet, and if that scenario had happened the PTB risked waking up too many people. The CIA intelligence report that was apparently issued by CIA "white hats" who I would consider part of the new counterculture, indicated that there wasn't evidence that Iran was developing a nuclear weapon, and that tied President Bush's hands in getting a war started with Iran. Some in the CIA tried to discredit the report, but it was too late. Oil prices dropped relieving some of the stress on the economy with gas prices getting down around $1.60/gal. in the U.S. at one point. In this sense, I view the current culture as more successful up to this point, because although the 60s and 70s counterculture was responsible for so much social and cultural advancement, the current counterculture is the main force preventing a system of control over the citizens that would be difficult to ever reverse.

Having said that though, in today's counterculture it seems that not all are fully awake, still want to see the political party that they oppose as the danger, and somehow think that establishment candidates will fix the problem. On another more general forum that I was in there was a message group that discussed the NWO, and although many considered events that have been used to advance the control grid as probable false flag attacks, many still were willing to support pro-war establishment candidates that want to use the "terrorist"' threat as an excuse to continue advancing the control grid.

[Wide-Eyed]

Snap! The wake up call is set. Good thread. How to organize and not throw baby out with the bath water though is tricky. We need the sources and information to organize and build create a unveiled society not steered or at all influenced by controllers. PA is good resource for many reasons namely for it's filters and analysis from broad diverse informed global group. Perhaps we should offer a solution after each thread,comment and post to help. Here is mine, organize locally help with starting discussion to get local involvement grassroots actions. Get my city council to recognize and create Constitutional zone where unconstitutional acts such as NDAA section 102.1 which ignores bill of rights and writ of habeus corpus. Get the feds out of your business by getting local ordinances passed. Get ordinances to get fluoride out of water. Organize with White Hats locally like Daniel Sheehan and Katherine Austin Fitts, organize and each out locally to help inform ,awaken creating action plans that bring the delta we need. I think that helps start small and local so it doesn't seem soo daunting.

[Ted]

I think a lot of the counterculture today is just a continuation of the same people from the 60s and 70s doing what they did back then. (look at the number of old fossils like me here on the forum)
I went through my formative years back then and adopted a very hippy worldview. I then got married, had kids, got a lot more conservative and spent most of my time working and raising my family.
However, I never lost those lessons I learned. I never trusted the government or big business, and didn't buy what the media was dishing out. When the internet became viable, and my children were more or less grown, I started back on the journey.
I also taught my kids what I knew, and now they are much more aware of what's going on in the world than I was at their age. They have also alerted quite a few of their friends to the lies and deceptions foisted on us by The Man.
The counterculture may not be as loud as it was back in the day, but I think it's a lot more widespread. There also seems to be a much larger disconnect between people and their governments now than there was back then. Conformity is not nearly as prevalent either. It's a much different world now.

[Cidersomerset]

I know most of my posts are from the 3D world , but I do have an esoteric side.
LOL....Anyway after watching the first two episodes of Century of the selfe earlier
and its very interesting stuff.

Another shooting event has just happened in Oragon first reports 10 possibly killed 20 wounded...

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...99#post1005199

This could be a genuine sad case or something else far to early, but the headlines it
has caused just seems out of context with world events. listening to the 'live stream'
it feel like 'mind control ' even if it is not. Especially with the thousands dieing in
conflict zones around the globe. This is not knew all such events 'drown' existing
stories especially since 24 hours news and the web.

I sometimes think millions of people die naturally from old age, disease , accidents
and crime everyday. Yet we are manipulated and conditioned to respond differently.
I was listening to the radio in the car earlier and they were discussing a recent
epidemic of heroin deaths in the UK. Which is not reported nationally that I've
heard , though is probably in articles somewhere. It ties in nicely with 9/11 and the
invasion of Afghanistan and 2014 being a record poppy crop. No dot connecting
there by the expert and host on BBC five live.......Oh well '' sigh' !




Afghan Opium Harvesting Protected by British & American Occupation Forces //
2014 the largest Opium crop in History

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...rop-in-History.

[Becky]

Posted by Cidersomerset (here)
I know most of my posts are from the 3D world , but I do have an esoteric side.
LOL....Anyway after watching the first two episodes of Century of the selfe earlier
and its very interesting stuff.

Another shooting event has just happened in Oragon first reports 10 possibly killed 20 wounded...

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...99#post1005199

This could be a genuine sad case or something else far to early, but the headlines it
has caused just seems out of context with world events. listening to the 'live stream'
it feel like 'mind control ' even if it is not. Especially with the thousands dieing in
conflict zones around the globe.

I sometimes think millions of people die naturally from old age, disease , accidents
and crime everyday. Yet we are manipulated and conditioned to respond differently.
I was listening to the radio in the car earlier and they were discussing a recent
epidemic of heroin deaths in the UK. Which is not reported nationally that I've
heard , though is probably in articles somewhere. It ties in nicely with 9/11 and the
invasion of Afghanistan and 2014 being a record poppy crop. No dot connecting
there by the expert and host on BBC five live.......Oh well '' sigh' !

Very good point CiderSomerset about the media directing our attention and manipulating our emotions in certain ways. There are so many huge events and small events that are either tragic or wonderful, and these are not reported...things that genuinely could help the positive evolution of humanity and genuinely help the planet....but it's the same things over and again that get reported on...there's a huge drug issue going on in the world right now...and it's prevalent here in the city in which I live.

[Cidersomerset]

but it's the same things over and again that get reported on...there's a huge
drug issue going on in the world right now...and it's prevalent here in the city in which I live.

Thanks Becky , its sad especially since we know its another 'earner' for political
slush funds, laundered by 'dodgy Banksters' and cyphoned off into the various
black projects and CIA ' conflict zone war chest.....


The Spoils of War: Afghanistan’s Multibillion Dollar Heroin Trade

Washington's Hidden Agenda: Restore the Drug Trade
By Prof Michel Chossudovsky....Global Research, May 25, 2015


http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-spo...eroin-trade/91


====================================================

There are some news reports and docs on U'tube , but this one from Jesse sums
up the situation in the US.....


Jesse Ventura Reveals How the Afghanistan War Fueled the American Heroin Epidemic | OTG - Ora TV

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=itHeQWOZGJA

Published on 12 Aug 2015


Jesse Ventura Reveals How the Afghanistan War Fueled the American Heroin
Epidemic | Jesse Ventura Off The Grid - Ora TV

Message Jesse at ora.tv/offthegrid/askjesse. www.ora.tv

[Sean]

We need to watch what's happening with music.

It's obvious how powerful music is, in a universe built on frequency and vibration, it's the ultimate transmitter of information and emotion. Which is why our "opposition" have invested so heavily in controlling it. Thing is, though, it's uncontrollable. You can kill a thousand john lennons, but someone else will pick up an instrument and use it to reach the people. "They' fear that power..so watching how they promote certain performers and block others is really informative. Watching the symbology some of them are forced to use is telling. As people wake up to it..I hope those with musical ability use it to counteract what's happening. Lennon is a perfect example of how one man, through the power of his music, can become such a threat that he was assassinated.

I wonder how many more Lennons are out there, looking for a chance to make an impact?

[Inmortal719]

Music has been corrupted these days, it takes nothing but a bunch of money to become a public figure or a famous singer, etc...
There's a lot of music out there that has thousands of followers and almost no one came from 0... they're all sons, cousins or related to those in power or millionaires
Real music talent is hard to find these days...

[Selkie]

You know what happened to the counter-culture? Kennedy was assassinated. Cut off the head, and the body is directionless. Kennedy would have given direction to the counter-culture...would have given direction to the massive energies that were awakening in "the body" of the people. He WAS giving direction to "the body" of the people. He was articulating its values; he was showing it where it needed to go. But no, he was killed. Because that cannot be allowed to happen. It will never be allowed to happen.

And when MLK and Bobby Kennedy came along, as lesser heads that might have done the same thing, they were killed in their turn.

[samildamach]

I've signed two petitions which both gathered the required numbers to be put threw to the house of commons to be aired.due to a lively little clause I.e we don't like these ideas both have be rejected