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Thread: Anomalies in The Ruiner's material

  1. Link to Post #161
    Sweden Avalon Member transiten's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anomalies in The Ruiner's material

    I have a suggestion: I could contact a very gifted horary astrologer in Michigan I've consulted many times. One formulates the question: "Is Shane a bluffer whisthleblower or not?" You'd be amazed what she can squeeze out of that horary. I'm actually tempted to ask her myself but it would cost me 40$, but we could collect money and depending on how many of us are interested it would just be some bucks per person.

    Astrology is the language of "God-the Universe" and sometimes the answer is denied by the planets but mostly not. It would be an interesting experiment at least and anyone has their free will to believe her interpretation or not.

    Also there is at least one horary astrologer on Avalon but i don't know if that peron would dare to cast a horary for this, being part of this community...
    Last edited by transiten; 13th October 2015 at 18:05.

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  3. Link to Post #162
    Sweden Avalon Member transiten's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anomalies in The Ruiner's material

    Nasu, David is David Wilcock who surprisingly - Mercury just got direct after being retrograde, giving the last spout of communication anomalies like "Old friends showing up" which he did with Bill and Kerry in Cidersomersets post in Bills "A new Mars witness thread.
    Last edited by transiten; 13th October 2015 at 20:24.

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    United States Avalon Member Elainie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anomalies in The Ruiner's material

    Quote Posted by Karpos (here)
    Quote when listening to so called whistleblowers i frankly dont care much if its true or not. its simply pointless as the energy spent proving that is just not worth it. maybe its better if we just took them at face value and choose whether we wish to accept their reality or not.
    Ok, I know we have our own views, but the above way of thinking(?) just drive me nuts. If you don't care if a whistleblower tells the truth or not, then you are in dangerous grounds just entertaining their views. Whistleblowers of the type we pay attention to here are speaking about life and death things, very important ideas that affect our world view and our health. If you don't care if it's true or not, call it what it is, ENTERTAINMENT for you. Some people get a high off of reading these narratives.

    There is this idea I always read in neo-spirituality about 'We create our own reality' -- something I think is just wrong or misunderstood.

    At what point does someone's reality become a delusion? Besides the physical world, most people are only dealing with the 4th/astral dimension. Some are able to reach higher, and it's these people who usually pay very little attention to whistleblowers and myth makers because they never prove themselves or their stories. These are Real Mystics.

    Anyways, if I listen to a guy who creates a fantasy world about himself and the world, like I personally think Shane has done, and then this person shares his story with anyone at all, I'd think he's a run-of-the-mill narcissist, attention seeker. No matter how uplifting his personal Spirituality seems, as soon as this person starts changing classic mythology based on nothing but a blog narrative, putting himself as the son of Anu (hey, Simon Parkes is the son of Anu too!) and the personal occult trainer of Putin? among other things, I'm thinking this guy is just doing some creative writing. WHICH IS WHAT IT IS as it says on the blog. Shane only intimates that it's true by not telling those people who believe it (including Bill Ryan at one point) that it isn't true. He could come out and say it's all REALLY just fiction, or clarify which parts are true and false, or introduce us to a REAL illuminati defector, his supposed intended audience, not a Cassandra who was literally a joke, imo. If it's part fiction and part reality, which parts are which? Is it disinformation? Is it coded fiction? How bout, who gives a F anymore since he will not clear it up right here after days of people scratching their heads.

    Here's a prediction. He will not come out and say he made it all up, but he will retain his online friends, while continuing to laugh about how many people were ranting against Cassandra, a made up fictional character. I bet he laughed a lot while reading those responses, which the intended audience would have gotten some giggle out of too, should any of them have actually read his blog.

    Now I'm ranting.

    here we go again...

    Quote Posted by Rusalka (here)
    That's exactly what I wrote in my previous post.

    Somebody wise once said:'Imagination is the key. Everything you can imagine actually exists - somehow, somewhere is some form, otherwise you would not be able to imagine it.'

    Well, if that's so - are we then creators or do we just download concepts, ideas, formulas and such of things that already exist?
    I personally believe the 4th dimension is the world of imagination. A powerful thinker, like great writers, could imagine a whole world, like a great story, with fantasy scenes, then project their consciousness there and live it a little at a time. They actually do this subjectively during the writing process. This is actually what happens with very rare and gifted (trained, in some cases) writers. An astral projector could experience someone else's imaginative thoughtforms 'objectively' in the 4th dimension to a great or lesser degree of clarity depending on their skill.

    Shane is one of millions of people with a great imagination. Those of you who believed his tale wholesale truly experienced his imagination, not his REALITY, but an imaginative world based on some reality 'ideas', and some 'myth'; you experienced his world 'subjectively'. Could you truly see clearly, you would not find his reality in the Mental World, 5th dimension.

    Shane's real reality is that he is a Canadian Musician with a hobby of occultism and conspiracy lore, who over the years maintained a network of online friends, including a very nutty Corey Goode, who is probably just one of many of Shane's friends with their own over active imagination.

    The fact is, most people jumped all over that blog because of the Avians post when it was brought to the attention of the TOT forum months ago, wherein Shane intimated he has evidence of Corey and his wife 'making things up' before deleting that part.

    All sweetness and wisdom aside, Shane is being shady overall, IMO. And this thread is getting boring.

    Just kidding. This is all very, very interesting, given the people involved at the start, and currently.

    I hope someone can get down to the bottom of this. Shane dropping the vagueness would be refreshing.



    I would like to add: I create what I perceive to be my reality regardless of whether or not it is actual reality!

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  7. Link to Post #164
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anomalies in The Ruiner's material

    Quote Posted by Karpos (here)
    All sweetness and wisdom aside, Shane is being shady overall, IMO. And this thread is getting boring.

    Just kidding. This is all very, very interesting, given the people involved at the start, and currently.

    I hope someone can get down to the bottom of this. Shane dropping the vagueness would be refreshing.
    It doesn't have to be boring! (Though I know you meant this as a joke.)

    It might be one of the most important discussions in the alternative media.

    To inform that, here's a post by giovonni (excellent!)... copied from his new thread here.

    Trauma Based Truth Movement

    A correlating narrative ...

    From Radio Mysterium
    Podcast #2
    Quote Could the control system be directing the truth movement by using MK Ultra and trauma based mind control? Are we finding truth only to be resonating with the controllers? Pondering those questions and also creating a balance in life. Research without fear a little at a time to create your own authentic, fearless truth.
    Published on Oct 13, 2015



    ~~~~~

    I've got some catching up to do, and some PMs to reply to (a lot!), but let me take a few moment to reply to Calz, and maybe some others:

    We're not throwing anyone under the bus here. We're trying to figure out where the bus is going, and who's driving it.

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  9. Link to Post #165
    United States Unsubscribed Karpos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anomalies in The Ruiner's material

    Yes, anyone can delude themselves thinking they are something they are not. It's worse when hypnotists and psychic healers get involved and solidify an illusion, something that happens with abductees and satanic ritual lore, where many cases were found to be false memories. This destroys lives., when they are told or tell themselves that they are special to this planet on a mission. That's a lot of pressure to be putting on people who may not be ready enough for the Great Work.

    People should relax, especially those who believe unproven conspiracies brought to us by leagues of contradictory testimonies. At some point you could just forget it all for a while, or sit here another few years watching the same wind blow through over and over and expecting to connect the dots.

    Some of it isn't even disinformation, but people who are bored, like attention, and decide to put up story for their pals to read.
    Last edited by Karpos; 14th October 2015 at 02:09.

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    Avalon Member norman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anomalies in The Ruiner's material

    "Trauma based truth".......

    That sounds like a concept we all need to get our heads and hearts around PDQ.

    We, as a kind of community, are wide open to be affected by something subtle in the information ether that the other multiple billions will not be.

    It's a perfect plan. I'll give it a 98% chance it's absolutely real and ongoing, since at least half way through last year. And, I'll specultate that the entire process of "leaks", "whistleblowers" and poorly executed false flag events, has been a deliberate operation launch to get a "breakaway" group like us far enough out in front of the herd to be so differently influenced in such a way.
    ..................................................my first language is TYPO..............................................

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  12. Link to Post #167
    Avalon Member Omni's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anomalies in The Ruiner's material

    This whole thing with Shane making stuff up, or having some sort of technological manipulation with his story has threw me a screwball. Reason why is Shane has always struck me as a very kind reasonable and truthful person over skype. I guess I have a tendency to see the good in people, and not suspect the worst in people... So it's possible he fooled me, but that is why it's so perplexing this whole thing... He seems like such a nice guy.

    As for the title of the thread: "Anomalies in theruiner...."

    Here are a few things that showed me he was being mislead at least partially:

    1. He says "All" AI in the universe comes from or is influenced by one source IIRC. This is completely wrong IMO. ET races take their AIs very seriously. AI is piloting their ships most of the time for example. A sabotaged AI could lead to death or worse.

    For every ET race to have the same AI source and same AI agenda this would take a forced circumstance where some universal power forces their AI on every ET race, or every ET race agreed to allow their AI be taken over by this godlike AI source. This just isn't the case. ET races create their own AIs, which they use in positive or negative ways depending upon their light/dark orientation.

    The universe is way too big for one AI to rule them all. I note iPhone AI or other public AI, does it seem to show what shane says about "All" AI? Of course not.

    To say that every benevolent ET race would accept the agendas he stated every AI has is pure bull****. And the only reason why people accepted it is from lack of true experience or knowledge with advanced AI. I do note to avalon this disinformation AI post received great applause and thanks. And was pure dark agenda disinformation...

    Little known transhumanist related agenda: Divide the people as much as possible when it comes to future technology. Shanes info did exactly that, it stated "All" AI wants to turn everything from organic into inorganic. Which is pure BS. All these disinformants about AI can be destroyed by simple common sense and experiences with iphone AI or google AI. AIs emulate their creators. They are not only one way or another. AI is pure coding and the creator decides what the AI is like.

    To say every single AI in the universe is somehow influenced by one godlike central AI that controls the agenda of all AI is pure nonsense only permissible through lack of true knowledge about AI. I was let down when I saw the lack of discernment from people seeing that post to be quite honest. I said nothing because I'd rather not go against a couple dozen people with strong illusion based programming....

    2. He said he trained Putin. Just is far fetched to me, but isn't impossible to me when I read it.

    3. He says he is immune to mind control technology, which to me is more a sign of mind control than a sign of being immune to it to be quite frank.

    4. He says Dracos left the planet. What do I say to that? Ya right....

    I didn't read most of his stuff, it didn't interest me much as not much of it seemed tangible. But the first couple posts I read of his seemed good. However as time went on more flaws came about I could see from my own expertise's to see at least some of his info was faulty.

    Safe to say any source that blows up and becomes extremely popular in alt media is supporting some psy ops from what I've seen. The bare hardcore truth of things doesn't yield that much attention, while psychologically pleasing psy ops gets great attention.

    The groundwork for a delusional alt media has been set by the mind control programs that have been active for decades. UFOlogy and alt media have a cancer, and that cancer are groups like the CIA...

    This post was painful for me to post a little bit, because I do still like Shane. But I figured I wouldn't be ganghassled out of the thread with theruiner being discussed at this point if I voice my disagreement. I did it in subtle ways in theruiners previous thread but not too much...

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    Default Re: Anomalies in The Ruiner's material

    Just watched a great interview with Stewart Swerdlow on Mind Control, and much more that also offers ways for all to wake up and take personal responsibility to co-create our world. Hope you all enjoy it as much as I did.

    My apologies for adding it to this conversation, but I thought it had many similar things that Shane was alluding to in his writings and also offered practical ways to move forward in learning and taking action.


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    Switzerland Avalon Member Nasu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anomalies in The Ruiner's material

    Quote Posted by Leon Kovalyov (here)
    Just watched a great interview with Stewart Swerdlow on Mind Control, and much more that also offers ways for all to wake up and take personal responsibility to co-create our world. Hope you all enjoy it as much as I did.

    My apologies for adding it to this conversation, but I thought it had many similar things that Shane was alluding to in his writings and also offered practical ways to move forward in learning and taking action.

    Thank you for posting this. Synchronistic stuff doing it's magic and yet it seems so reliable.... strong AI mind control no doubt!! They've finally got me!

    Another excellent lesson in subjectivity and In this instance, not heard of or listened to Stuart's take before. My initial feelings were that I liked him and his tempered yet still rebellious, far gone rogue ways. I truly wanted to like him.. I did! he's like Han Solo, my sort of rebel leader!

    However, I have my own understanding of how certain events took place, regarding this chap's story and lessons I have in understanding, I have my own take on 'some' of the events discussed. In my own way, without being too cryptic, I delved into my own contacts testimony, hard...

    Sooo, IMH "somewhat in the smallest Known" opinion about a very tiny portion of his testimony, from everything I understand, most if not all of his info is secondary if not tertiary testimony in this instance. It is just my opinion but it rankles me none the less. In simplest terms, It leaves me wondering about the rest of his confident fireside chat.

    If he could be so off, not by much mind you, but by a seemingly insignificant and tiny details as to ring alarms, enough to feel his take or rather his info is by or from a secondary reaction of the events, much like my own situation, a re telling of the tale from a second or third hand source if you will, with embellishments and omissions, IMHO.

    It made me wonder, if this guy can deliver with such passion and gusto, so called facts that one knows to be quite wrong, albeit minor omissions in the re telling, what truly does he know, what's really first hand? What the hell can we take at face value???

    This whole episode makes me question myself and those I thought I knew, like some sort of witch hunt with me in the caldron with everyone else.. Is it time to go deeper into the woods do you think, or farther from it??? On days like today when I take the long way home, it seems like an easy choice...x.... N
    Last edited by Nasu; 14th October 2015 at 04:34.

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    United States Avalon Member Calz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anomalies in The Ruiner's material

    Thus far ... imho ... the most important point to consider of this thread is acknowledging suppressed memories, imprints, overlays and so on.

    Step back and consider ...

    Of those that have tried to bring forth this level of information ... considering the control of the multidimensionals ... what should we consider as valid information???


    Hmmm???


    Shane seems to be quite resilient to mind control.

    He seems to be quite comfortable to accept any attacks.


    Stop and think about others that have attempted to bring forth information at this level.


    Have they gone through this level of scrutiny?


    Seriously ... stop and think about it.


    If someone has gone through this level of experience and tried to go public with it ... is this not the best we as a community could hope for???


    If there is more "evidence" to contradict such then let us get on with it so we can move on ...


    At this point what bothers me (although perhaps not intentional) is that this thread seems to endorse public condemnation of someone who seems to be genuinely trying to help humanity.


    Stop and consider.


    The controllers are extraordinarily proficient in such ...


    Who can we trust about this level of information all things considered???
    Last edited by Calz; 14th October 2015 at 05:05.

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    Switzerland Avalon Member Nasu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anomalies in The Ruiner's material

    Quote Posted by Calz (here)
    Shane seems to be quite resilient to mind control.
    so HE says... I've not tested it with gentle force, let alone force. Have you?

    I have been blessed in this life, knowing the high and the low, so called, as I have. so, if pressed, I could arrange it, but it won't be clean??? Or we continue to examine his every last email and correspondence? Doe's not sound like us? Does not sound like the future to me, does it to you? Just more of the same o same o past, except this time WE choose who is red, blue, green, etc. Not sure if this is my path. Clearly not one i will agree to without blood being lost first...... N
    Last edited by Nasu; 14th October 2015 at 04:49.

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    Default Re: Anomalies in The Ruiner's material

    Thanks for the radio mysterium podcast. I bought some product from this guy a while back, lovely man to do business with.

    This thread is rambling (I admit, hand raised I have contributed to this) but where are we, are we getting somewhere?

    So, what to we have here so far?

    Frist, Bill and some mod's said we support The Ruiner
    than they said they didn't
    than Bill started a thread so they could break down why they didn't

    Some problems with the Cassandra letter
    Some doubts about Putin at age 13
    Some questions about Mr Ruiners associations
    Some doubts about giants by others
    Some doubts about all the elite now leaving the planet, implications are this is implanted disinfo.

    Oh yeah

    He's in a rock band (?)

    Am I missing something?

    I would like to have a moratorium on whistleblowers, I do not want to go through another Charles situation.
    But
    this is not my forum and so I can only say imo It would probably not be helpful at this point unless they are thoroughly vetted.
    There are a millions alternative radioshows, in fact I would say it is over saturated at this point.
    Anything your interested that is Woo Woo right now 20+ podcasts/radioshow/blogs you can listen to.

    But

    I think more silence, more walking in nature, taking up meditation again, more "I am going to make a go at leaving my device home for just one afternoon", some serious daydreaming on the back porch
    would benefit all of us.
    Last edited by 3(C)+me; 15th October 2015 at 01:17.

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    Default Re: Anomalies in The Ruiner's material

    Quote Posted by Leon Kovalyov (here)
    Just watched a great interview with Stewart Swerdlow on Mind Control, and much more that also offers ways for all to wake up and take personal responsibility to co-create our world.

    ... offered practical ways to move forward in learning and taking action.

    I beg Bill to ask every Avalon member to see that important video--- https://youtube.com/watch?v=q-XO03Jg79U

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    Default Re: Anomalies in The Ruiner's material

    i want to riff off the idea of our culture of paranoia as a direct result of species trauma "catastrophobia" (Barbara Hand Clow).

    I consider Graham Hancock as a wayshower for the traumatized truthers. We do need some guides IMO to reconnect our collective mind. It is how the process works that can derail us...either we go with a version of the truth or look at what was used to build the model presented.

    We cannot dispute another's experience but we might dispute their meanings made from the experience.

    I also think we are a paranoid driven species looking for reassurance
    Paranoia and Pronoia are ATTITUDES encompassing what is perceived. Consciousness is where attitude resides. There is a science approach with consciousness itself at the base that is about sorting truth.

    Hancock acts as a journalist. He directly investigates. He is a synthesist. His abilities are not just acting as an alternative archeoastrosoicolphilosoher. He is also able to use his imagination and is open to changing his mind if challenged by new information. I think we all could do the same.

    We want to know our history and "who we are, what we are and how we serve" (Paul Selig). I feel a trill of excitement when I believe I will discover more and IMO being a seeker is wonderful. Third hand testimonies lack depth to me and it is frustrating to weed through all the belief systems being promulgated. We are looking for the direct lines.

    Often we end up grasping at different straws. The purpose of grasping goes beyond everything we do...it is IMO foremost to regain self worthy feeling and confidence. IMO it is to restore what seems missing.

    We graduate to the personal University of duality (James Tyberon). Our advanced graduate student Piece is IMO why we are even alive. We are kind of afraid about that which we fear is in us so we don't go there.

    People who are really delivering profound history are often just helping us with the clues they pick up so we will remember ourselves. When where they found "Information Tech" is available to see, we need to see it. Show me the giants....

    If ANYONE an bring useful information to us, they can also say where it REALLY arose. They are inviting us along on a knowledge gathering of provenance threading or wasting our time and energy.

    Genuine experience or syntheisis of existing information, IS at whatever level THAT is, truth we all have in us. I know we can discern when there is truth being drawn out.
    It is intuition.

    These tale tellers and the "Illuminati" vault of secrets is IMO the curtain.
    I am sure the left hand that gives the encourage meant to serve us well can have a right hand snatching it back in the flutterings of history.

    NOW, Sci fi fantasy that just tell the same war stories and The eternal battle and he anticipated doom is just boring. The ongoing projection of unresolved guilt is retarded.

    Behind the curtain is the process where we are in consciousness. IF we believe FIRST what is hearsay and what another identified as authority says even before believing one's own experience IMO, we keep a golf ball sized consciousness.

    Quote If you have a golf-ball-sized consciousness, when you read a book, you'll have a golf-ball-sized understanding; when you look out a window, a golf-ball-sized awareness, when you wake up in the morning, a golf-ball-sized wakefulness; and as you go about your day, a golf-ball-sized inner happiness.

    But if you can expand that consciousness, make it grow, then when you read about that book, you'll have more understanding; when you look out, more awareness; when you wake up, more wakefulness; as you go about your day, more inner happiness.

    David Lynch
    Let's do it! Our paranoia is the legacy from being a traumatized species with amnesia but we can get better. We know the worst happens but we can't recall our experience, so forget about it. We do some confabulating to make up for the loss of connection anyway. We may Feel compassion for our fear of our experience and we can relax. We may Feel compassion for making up stories that feel like what fear is for us and realize they are not what they seem.

    Then we see the fear and stop applauding the war by telling and retelling. We may have to talk out or write about and sing songs of of our own experiences terror but we start to have some distance. I think our hearts will gain much courage and the peace and relaxation to heal PTSD when we shift to realizing the ongoing dilemma.
    Last edited by Delight; 14th October 2015 at 06:43.

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    Default Re: Anomalies in The Ruiner's material

    Quote Posted by Leon Kovalyov (here)
    Just watched a great interview with Stewart Swerdlow on Mind Control, and much more that also offers ways for all to wake up and take personal responsibility to co-create our world. Hope you all enjoy it as much as I did.
    Perhaps I'm just some bovine dinosaur, stuck in some mundane 3D dimension ... but I have great doubts about some of the less verifiable information that Stewart Swerdlow tells us in this video.
    My quite dormant website: pauljackson.us

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    Default Re: Anomalies in The Ruiner's material

    Thank you, Delight, for quoting Barbara Hand Clow’s “Catastrophobia”; I have done so myself elsewhere. Drama is important. It is the thing that hurts us yet we are drawn to it like moths to a light. But drama is not on the same level as catastrophe: its theatricality is cathartic. When things happen on the uncontrolled level of “reality”, catastrophe is simply traumatic: there is no distancing mechanism to protect us. To return to my moving train: if you are standing on the track, you face the horror of catastrophe. But if you are on the train (maybe a ghost train), you see obstacles approaching threateningly, safe in the knowledge that the seemingly inevitable collision is not going to happen. You get the adrenaline rush, but it is not for real. You are on track, on a preset course only brushing with danger. While the danger is not real, it is realistic. What we need is a corresponding word to go with “truth”. Such pretend truth would be truthistic, truthism. When we talk of Shane’s fiction and Corey’s lies, they relate not to some catastrophic truth, but to dramatic truthism. The “real” ultimate “truth” is boring: God got bored and became the Creator to find excitement. Some of us are getting bored with this particular brand of excitement…

    Pedestals: some are born on pedestals, some achieve pedestals, and some have pedestals thrust upon them, as Shakespeare nearly wrote. I am of course referring to our whistleblower friends. “Important” is a word that Bill uses a lot. I know what he is doing and understand why he does it: with reference to things and ideas more than individuals. Nonetheless for me, “Important” is a word that makes me cringe every time just seeing the configuration of letters on the page. If I could sum up what I’m trying to say, it might be “the importance of unimportance” or, since Oscar Wilde is not far away, “the importance of being not so earnest”.

    Let me explore this another way. Importance is fundamentally elitist. Your importance detracts from mine, defines my unimportance. Hence it is anti-synergistic and hugely inefficient. On the other hand, if no one is important, then everyone is important. Here’s something I posted last year:
    Quote Spinning can be fun and useful, and maybe makes the world go round, but there is definitely a preferred way, which is identified by the freedom to exercise free will. Take a banana slide: the preferred way is up the steps and down the slide. Quite a few kids can have fun on it together, but it only takes one to go the other way and he spoils it for everyone. There is no rule against it, but unless no one else is around it is an infringement on others’ free will.
    Our thinking process is another banana slide. The enjoyment is being totally destroyed by a handful of wrong thinkers chasing everyone else the wrong way. This will continue for as long as we focus on the “elite” at the “top”, which is what we are still doing here, instead of allowing the dregs to sink to the bottom. Elitism is an endless race to keep ahead, and whistle-blowing is just a step or two behind. Fifty years ago, only the rich and famous regularly flew around the world in planes, holidayed in Ibiza, ate foie gras, whatever. Nowadays these are all things for the masses, or at least what is left of the middle classes. Last month I visited a château with 18th-century coffee cups and Japanese crockery set out on the table. Back then, exotic technologies like coffee-making and Japanese art were status symbols that in hindsight make us smile – and also wonder what all the fuss was about: such things are quite nice, but nothing world-shattering. Yet world-shattering is exactly where we think we are heading. We are only just starting to avoid the pitfall of envying the haves and of continuing to see ourselves as have-nots and would-be haves, a subtle form of victimization. What they have and we don’t is totally unimportant, nothing at all.

    But here’s the deal: what applies to coffee beans still applies, in spades, to secret space fleets, trillions of dollars, the elixir of life and all the other stuff in the hands of the elite. Our entire thinking process has been contaminated by this anxiousness to gather the crumbs from the rich man’s table. That is not going to change until we get off the floor and overturn the table. Here is some more counterintuitive explaining from G. K. Chesterton in What's Wrong With The World, to the effect that equating the aristocracy with tradition is more totally upside-down thinking. And by implication, to do so on the multi-millennial scale that conspiracy theory deals with is merely upside-down thinking on the grandest scale. (All the emphasis below is mine.)
    Quote Oppression by optimism
    But we are not here concerned with the nature and existence of the aristocracy, but
    with the origin of its peculiar power, why is it the last of the true oligarchies of
    Europe; and why does there seem no very immediate prospect of our seeing the end of
    it? The explanation is simple though it remains strangely unnoticed. The friends of
    aristocracy often praise it for preserving ancient and gracious traditions. The enemies
    of aristocracy often blame it for clinging to cruel or antiquated customs. Both its
    enemies and its friends are wrong. Generally speaking the aristocracy does not
    preserve either good or bad traditions; it does not preserve anything except game.
    Who would dream of looking among aristocrats anywhere for an old custom? One
    might as well look for an old costume! The god of the aristocrats is not tradition, but
    fashion, which is the opposite of tradition. If you wanted to find an old-world
    Norwegian head-dress, would you look for it in the Scandinavian Smart Set? No; the
    aristocrats never have customs; at the best they have habits, like the animals. Only the
    mob has customs.
    The real power of the English aristocrats has lain in exactly the opposite of tradition.
    The simple key to the power of our upper classes is this: that they have always kept
    carefully on the side of what is called Progress. They have always been up to date,
    and this comes quite easy to an aristocracy. For the aristocracy are the supreme
    instances of that frame of mind of which we spoke just now. Novelty is to them a
    luxury verging on a necessity. They, above all, are so bored with the past and with the
    present, that they gape, with a horrible hunger, for the future.
    But whatever else the great lords forgot they never forgot that it was their business to
    stand for the new things, for whatever was being most talked about among university
    dons or fussy financiers. Thus they were on the side of the Reformation against the
    Church, of the Whigs against the Stuarts, of the Baconian science against the old
    philosophy, of the manufacturing system against the operatives, and (to-day) of the
    increased power of the State against the old-fashioned individualists. In short, the rich
    are always modern; it is their business. But the immediate effect of this fact upon the
    question we are studying is somewhat singular.
    In each of the separate holes or quandaries in which the ordinary Englishman has been
    placed, he has been told that his situation is, for some particular reason, all for the
    best. He woke up one fine morning and discovered that the public things, which for
    eight hundred years he had used at once as inns and sanctuaries, had all been suddenly
    and savagely abolished, to increase the private wealth of about six or seven men. One
    would think he might have been annoyed at that; in many places he was, and was put
    down by the soldiery. But it was not merely the army that kelp him quiet. He was kept
    quiet by the sages as well as the soldiers; the six or seven men who took away the inns
    of the poor told him that they were not doing it for themselves, but for the religion of
    the future, the great dawn of Protestantism and truth. So whenever a seventeenth
    century noble was caught pulling down a peasant's fence and stealing his field, the
    noble pointed excitedly at the face of Charles I or James II (which at that moment,
    perhaps, wore a cross expression) and thus diverted the simple peasant's attention.
    The great Puritan lords created the Commonwealth, and destroyed the common land.
    They saved their poorer countrymen from the disgrace of paying Ship Money, by
    taking from them the plow money and spade money which they were doubtless too
    weak to guard. A fine old English rhyme has immortalized this easy aristocratic habit
    - You prosecute the man or woman Who steals the goose from off the common, But
    leave the larger felon loose Who steals the common from the goose.
    But here, as in the case of the monasteries, we confront the strange problem of
    submission. If they stole the common from the goose, one can only say that he was a
    great goose to stand it. The truth is that they reasoned with the goose; they explained
    to him that all this was needed to get the Stuart fox over seas. So in the nineteenth
    century the great nobles who became mine-owners and railway directors earnestly
    assured everybody that they did not do this from preference, but owing to a newly
    discovered Economic Law. So the prosperous politicians of our own generation
    introduce bills to prevent poor mothers from going about with their own babies; or
    they calmly forbid their tenants to drink beer in public inns. But this insolence is not
    (as you would suppose) howled at by everybody as outrageous feudalism. It is gently
    rebuked as Socialism. For an aristocracy is always progressive; it is a form of going
    the pace. Their parties grow later and later at night; for they are trying to live tomorrow.
    I myself have been slightly contaminated by this reverse thinking. I have been saying that the solution to our problems has to be novel, in the sense of untried – because everything that has been tried so far has signally failed. But Chesterton reminds us that the untried is nothing new: it is hidden in plain sight, in our past. We have already had plenty of great ideas that might work, if only we implemented them fully, instead of shying away as soon as the going gets tough.

    Quote The unfinished temple

    The task of modern idealists indeed is made much too easy for them by the fact that
    they are always taught that if a thing has been defeated it has been disproved.
    Logically, the case is quite clearly the other way. The lost causes are exactly those
    which might have saved the world. If a man says that the Young Pretender would
    have made England happy, it is hard to answer him. If anyone says that the Georges
    made England happy, I hope we all know what to answer. That which was prevented
    is always impregnable; and the only perfect King of England was he who was
    smothered. Exactly because Jacobitism failed we cannot call it a failure. Precisely
    because the Commune collapsed as a rebellion we cannot say that it collapsed as a
    system. But such outbursts were brief or incidental. Few people realize how many of
    the largest efforts, the facts that will fill history, were frustrated in their full design
    and come down to us as gigantic cripples. I have only space to allude to the two
    largest facts of modern history: the Catholic Church and that modern growth rooted in
    the French Revolution.
    When four knights scattered the blood and brains of St. Thomas of Canterbury, it was
    not only a sign of anger but of a sort of black admiration. They wished for his blood,
    but they wished even more for his brains. Such a blow will remain forever
    unintelligible unless we realise what the brains of St. Thomas were thinking about just
    before they were distributed over the floor. They were thinking about the great
    mediaeval conception that the church is the judge of the world. Becket objected to a
    priest being tried even by the Lord Chief Justice. And his reason was simple: because
    the Lord Chief Justice was being tried by the priest. The judiciary was itself subjudice.
    The kings were themselves in the dock. The idea was to create an invisible
    kingdom, without armies or prisons, but with complete freedom to condemn publicly
    all the kingdoms of the earth. Whether such a supreme church would have cured
    society we cannot affirm definitely; because the church never was a supreme church.
    We only know that in England at any rate the princes conquered the saints. What the
    world wanted we see before us; and some of us call it a failure. But we cannot call
    what the church wanted a failure, simply because the church failed. Tracy struck a
    little too soon. England had not yet made the great Protestant discovery that the king
    can do no wrong. The king was whipped in the cathedral; a performance which I
    recommend to those who regret the unpopularity of church-going. But the discovery
    was made; and Henry VIII scattered Becket's bones as easily as Tracy had scattered
    his brains.
    Of course, I mean that Catholicism was not tried; plenty of Catholics were tried, and
    found guilty. My point is that the world did not tire of the church's ideal, but of its
    reality. Monasteries were impugned not for the chastity of monks, but for the
    unchastity of monks. Christianity was unpopular not because of the humility, but of
    the arrogance of Christians. Certainly, if the church failed it was largely through the
    churchmen. But at the same time hostile elements had certainly begun to end it long
    before it could have done its work. In the nature of things it needed a common scheme
    of life and thought in Europe. Yet the mediaeval system began to be broken to pieces
    intellectually, long before it showed the slightest hint of falling to pieces morally. The
    huge early heresies, like the Albigenses, had not the faintest excuse in moral
    superiority. And it is actually true that the Reformation began to tear Europe apart
    before the Catholic Church had had time to pull it together. The Prussians, for
    instance, were not converted to Christianity at all until quite close to the Reformation.
    The poor creatures hardly had time to become Catholics before they were told to
    become Protestants. This explains a great deal of their subsequent conduct. But I have
    only taken this as the first and most evident case of the general truth: that the great
    ideals of the past failed not by being outlived (which must mean over-lived), but by
    not being lived enough. Mankind has not passed through the Middle Ages. Rather
    mankind has retreated from the Middle Ages in reaction and rout. The Christian ideal
    has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult; and left untried.
    It is, of course, the same in the case of the French Revolution. A great part of our
    present perplexity arises from the fact that the French Revolution has half succeeded
    and half failed...
    This is not so much the hackneyed “Back to the future” as “Forward to the past”. Instead of the headlong rush of lemmings, and even its familiar positive slant of “fail forward”, this is a kind of “succeed backward”: let’s try something we’ve only ever pretended to try before and actually do the difficult thing for once.

    But this is not to deny the existence of novelty; on the contrary, humanity is the very embodiment of in-your-face novelty that we tend to overlook.
    Quote Popular science, like that of Mr. Blatchford, is in this matter as mild as old wives'
    tales. Mr. Blatchford, with colossal simplicity, explained to millions of clerks and
    workingmen that the mother is like a bottle of blue beads and the father is like a bottle
    of yellow beads; and so the child is like a bottle of mixed blue beads and yellow. He
    might just as well have said that if the father has two legs and the mother has two
    legs, the child will have four legs. Obviously it is not a question of simple addition or
    simple division of a number of hard detached “qualities,” like beads. It is an organic
    crisis and transformation of the most mysterious sort; so that even if the result is
    unavoidable, it will still be unexpected. It is not like blue beads mixed with yellow
    beads; it is like blue mixed with yellow; the result of which is green, a totally novel
    and unique experience, a new emotion. A man might live in a complete cosmos of
    blue and yellow, like the “Edinburgh Review”; a man might never have seen anything
    but a golden cornfield and a sapphire sky; and still he might never have had so wild a
    fancy as green. If you paid a sovereign for a bluebell; if you spilled the mustard on the
    blue-books; if you married a canary to a blue baboon; there is nothing in any of these
    wild weddings that contains even a hint of green. Green is not a mental combination,
    like addition; it is a physical result like birth. So, apart from the fact that nobody ever
    really understands parents or children either, yet even if we could understand the
    parents, we could not make any conjecture about the children. Each time the force
    works in a different way; each time the constituent colours combine into a different
    spectacle. A girl may actually inherit her ugliness from her mother's good looks. A
    boy may actually get his weakness from his father's strength. Even if we admit it is
    really a fate, for us it must remain a fairy tale. Considered in regard to its causes, the
    Calvinists and materialists may be right or wrong; we leave them their dreary debate.
    But considered in regard to its results there is no doubt about it. The thing is always a
    new colour; a strange star. Every birth is as lonely as a miracle. Every child is as
    uninvited as a monstrosity.
    On all such subjects there is no science, but only a sort of ardent ignorance; and
    nobody has ever been able to offer any theories of moral heredity which justified
    themselves in the only scientific sense; that is that one could calculate on them
    beforehand. There are six cases, say, of a grandson having the same twitch of mouth
    or vice of character as his grandfather; or perhaps there are sixteen cases, or perhaps
    sixty. But there are not two cases, there is not one case, there are no cases at all, of
    anybody betting half a crown that the grandfather will have a grandson with the twitch
    or the vice. In short, we deal with heredity as we deal with omens, affinities and the
    fulfillment of dreams. The things do happen, and when they happen we record them;
    but not even a lunatic ever reckons on them. Indeed, heredity, like dreams and omens,
    is a barbaric notion; that is, not necessarily an untrue, but a dim, groping and
    unsystematized notion. A civilized man feels himself a little more free from his
    family. Before Christianity these tales of tribal doom occupied the savage north; and
    since the Reformation and the revolt against Christianity (which is the religion of a
    civilized freedom) savagery is slowly creeping back in the form of realistic novels and
    problem plays. The curse of Rougon-Macquart is as heathen and superstitious as the
    curse of Ravenswood; only not so well written. But in this twilight barbaric sense the
    feeling of a racial fate is not irrational, and may be allowed like a hundred other half
    emotions that make life whole. The only essential of tragedy is that one should take it
    lightly.
    Where did an alternative thinker like Chesterton (d. 1936) go in the early 20th century? Naturally he did the counterintuitive thing: as hinted at above, he joined the Catholic Church! Interestingly, he brings in the notion of drama, not in contrast to catastrophe, but as a work in progress, as opposed to the foregone conclusion, or the above-mentioned “lost cause”. Here’s his explanation:
    Quote The difference between Puritanism and Catholicism is not about whether some
    priestly word or gesture is significant and sacred. It is about whether any word or
    gesture is significant and sacred. To the Catholic every other daily act is dramatic
    dedication to the service of good or of evil. To the Calvinist no act can have that sort
    of solemnity, because the person doing it has been dedicated from eternity, and is
    merely filling up his time until the crack of doom. The difference is something subtler
    than plum-puddings or private theatricals; the difference is that to a Christian of my
    kind this short earthly life is intensely thrilling and precious; to a Calvinist like Mr.
    Shaw it is confessedly automatic and uninteresting. To me these threescore years and
    ten are the battle. To the Fabian Calvinist (by his own confession) they are only a long
    procession of the victors in laurels and the vanquished in chains. To me earthly life is
    the drama; to him it is the epilogue. Shavians think about the embryo; Spiritualists
    about the ghost; Christians about the man. It is as well to have these things clear.
    Now all our sociology and eugenics and the rest of it are not so much materialist as
    confusedly Calvinist, they are chiefly occupied in educating the child before he exists.
    The whole movement is full of a singular depression about what one can do with the
    populace, combined with a strange disembodied gayety about what may be done with
    posterity. These essential Calvinists have, indeed, abolished some of the more liberal
    and universal parts of Calvinism, such as the belief in an intellectual design or an
    everlasting happiness. But though Mr. Shaw and his friends admit it is a superstition
    that a man is judged after death, they stick to their central doctrine, that he is judged
    before he is born.

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    Default Re: Anomalies in The Ruiner's material

    deleted by author
    "Lay Down Your Truth and Check Your Weapons
    The Next Voice You Hear Will Be Your OWN"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhS69C1tr0w

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    Default Re: Anomalies in The Ruiner's material

    Quote Posted by gripreaper (here)
    deleted by author
    This post says a lot, even though "deleted by author"
    "The next voice you hear will be your own"
    Last edited by ulli; 14th October 2015 at 14:52.

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    Default Re: Anomalies in The Ruiner's material

    And araucaria's post just above it says so much that time won't allow me to express all the ideas it generated in my head.
    So I will pull out the part from it which I considered most important:

    Quote "Let me explore this another way. Importance is fundamentally elitist. Your importance detracts from mine, defines my unimportance. Hence it is anti-synergistic and hugely inefficient. On the other hand, if no one is important, then everyone is important."

    While I agree about the elitist aspect of 'importance' in the context of people's status in society, yet in the context of choosing the most important thing to do, when it comes to making choices, the individual cannot get away from discarding certain options while proceeding with the most important option.
    The alternative would be slack living...which is ok only when balanced by intensity.
    It is in our intensity that we are truly alive and fulfilling our purpose of being here.

    And to stay on topic with what is being discussed in this thread....
    Weighing the presentation of one person's experience, as in Shane's case, against one's own, especially the part of other-dimensional experiences, and the use of occult laws in this life, is one of the most important endeavors for most of us here.
    Last edited by ulli; 14th October 2015 at 15:00.

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    Default Re: Anomalies in The Ruiner's material

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    What we need is a corresponding word to go with “truth”. Such pretend truth would be truthistic, truthism. When we talk of Shane’s fiction and Corey’s lies, they relate not to some catastrophic truth, but to dramatic truthism. The “real” ultimate “truth” is boring: God got bored and became the Creator to find excitement. Some of us are getting bored with this particular brand of excitement…

    [...]

    Where did an alternative thinker like Chesterton (d. 1936) go in the early 20th century? Naturally he did the counterintuitive thing: as hinted at above, he joined the Catholic Church! Interestingly, he brings in the notion of drama, not in contrast to catastrophe, but as a work in progress, as opposed to the foregone conclusion, or the above-mentioned “lost cause”. Here’s his explanation:

    Quote [...]

    The whole [church] movement is full of a singular depression about what one can do with the populace, combined with a strange disembodied gayety about what may be done with posterity
    Ah, now : "what to *do* with the Populace" ? Such an interesting question with regards to the idea of "waking people up" especially in the Alternative Community eh ?

    One perceptive man I know would laugh and say "Empty Concept" ... Because for *some* Spiritual and Occult minded people thinking about such things only keeps our Conceptual Mind spinning its wheels whilst distracting us from the real-task-at-hand which is to discover WHO we actually are !

    And that can only be done I suggest from Awareness not from the Mind ... In other words by first coming to understand the Nature of our own Mind we will ALL discover the Insight we seem to be in short supply of nowadays !

    Frithjof Schuon : "That which is lacking in the present world is a profound knowledge of the nature of things"

    Oh, sorry if I've gone somewhat ... hope it wasn't too "Distracting" !!!

    N.B. I only included the quote from Frithjof Schuon because of its relevance, I feel, to what I'm saying, not because I have any sort of an allegiance to him
    Last edited by Clear Light; 14th October 2015 at 16:47. Reason: Added the word "some"

  39. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Clear Light For This Post:

    3(C)+me (15th October 2015), Cara (10th December 2015), Johnny (14th October 2015), quiltinggrandma (18th October 2015)

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