Anomalies in The Ruiner's material

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Posted by Calz (here)
Stop and think about others that have attempted to bring forth information at this level.

Have they gone through this level of scrutiny?

Seriously ... stop and think about it.

Yes. Earlier this year, and late winter of last year, Corey Goode went through the same kind of scrutiny on these forums. Since he was scrutinized, I guess you believe(d) him too?

I don't understand the logic that being subjected to criticism makes someone automatically credible, if this is what you are trying to say now. Calz I honestly think you have fallen for something that you simply prefer to keep believing regardless of any outside red flags.

If someone has gone through this level of experience and tried to go public with it ... is this not the best we as a community could hope for???

If someone had really gone through these kinds of experiences there would be indications of that, somehow, on some level. What kind of indications do you think Shane has provided to show that he's telepathically talked to giants, witnessed ritual torture and murder, trained Vladimiar Putin when he was only 13 or 14 years old, and all this other stuff? It's just because he's nice, right? That's why you believe him? He's your friend and he's nice.

That may well be the case but it doesn't mean he's not lying anyway. I once had a friend who was a pathological liar and everyone knew it, and he would lie about the craziest stuff that made no sense to lie about, but he was nice enough anyway. Doesn't mean we believed any of his fantastic stories of course.

Who can we trust about this level of information all things considered???

No one except your own self. Maybe that's the problem, you feel like you have to be able to trust someone and follow their story to get to the truth. The only person you are going to be able to trust in the end is yourself and in cases like this you better question whether you should even trust that, because you have to be able to question everything, and not just what is comfortable for you to question.

Burden of proof is on the person making claims. There is nothing to "move on" to except going back to having blind faith in what this guy says, and why in the hell should anyone ever have blind faith in anything? Very best case scenario you could have here without evidence is to simply entertain the stories without attaching yourself to it being true or false either way.

[transiten]

Again my suggestion to ask a horary about Shanes credibility; this astrologer from Michigan is incredibly accurate. F.i. a friend of mine who had got to know a man she felt had become her close friend and trusted 100% showed up disappearing and not payng back - to her a large sum of money including a mobile and her favourite blanket. He was full of "spirituality" e-mailing Universal Love all over the place.

For several reasons she got this strong intuition being away for a while that he had stolen everything of value from her room (he had the key) and asked a horary about whether this man was a thief or not. She felt absolute terrible suspecting this man and accused herself for that.

As she arrived home everything seemed Ok and a parcel that had disappeared had been returned, something she also asked about and that the astrologer said would be found.

But the chart screamed theft and her being gullible trusting the wrong pple. And so it appeared he had taken those money all the same (she didn't tell about that loan and mobile while asking the question) She eventually felt much better having her intuition confirmed.

Hope I don't get a

[OmeyocaN777]

As we all know everything around us is energy that vibrates in different frequencies so we are.
What i'm thinking.....i am, as Jesus and Buddha said.
We are creators, so in order to create something beautiful and harmonious, we must first explore and understand how negative and positive thoughts-energies work and correspond each other (this is something that we knew it before but we forgot it - we still learn how to expand it).
Shane said that Cassandra call him Mr Green, she saids also that exist three kinds of people, red-blue and green.
These are code names to describe basic humans ways of thinking-vibrations, where red are the humans that work in basics instincts (survive), blue are the humans that vibrates in mind-control-scientific way and green is the heart frequency of unity.
Shane told us also that every trick or manipulation tried on him was a failure.
Here we have a great secret expose and this is a great example how we can benefit even from "dark sources".
When we vibrate in a higher frequency (heart) connecting with mother earth (earth-sun-galaxy-universe), this feeling comes from inside,
there is nothing that can manipulate-fear-control us and we feel complete because we take energy from the fountain(GOD).
Our intuition and telepathy are in a high state so everywhere we focus on, immediately we know the true way of the current situation.
When we vibrate in heart frequency that doesn't mean that the other centres-chakras are inactive but rather following (full term-coexisting).....
This is our purpose here(bring the Light) thats why they trying so hard to disconnect us from mother earth and between us.
This state of vibrating in this higher frequency, Jesus Call it with the code name "Holy Spirit"!!!??
We are Beautiful Magical Creatures-Beings because we are the extension of God, never forget that!!!
Only Love real exists, everything else is an illusion.......

[3(C)+me]

Araucara wrote:

I myself have been slightly contaminated by this reverse thinking. I have been saying that the solution to our problems has to be novel, in the sense of untried – because everything that has been tried so far has signally failed.

Great men have offered novel revolutionary ideas, (these ideas often involved overthrowing the Old system) but they were gotten rid of, suicided, overdosed, framed, assassinated, so as to stop these ideas from moving forward. We know what novel ideas might work but we have the old system which your author tries to paint as progressive that will do what it takes to stop them.

But Chesterton reminds us that the untried is nothing new: it is hidden in plain sight, in our past.

The past is the old customs, laws, and programing that states "custom and rule by the rightful rulers" must stand and continue. This is not the untried.
This is the same old same old.

We have already had plenty of great ideas that might work, if only we implemented them fully, instead of shying away as soon as the going gets tough.

Martin Luther, JFK, RFK, John Lennon...this is what happens to individuals who suggest a new way. To be in a position of influencing the masses to another way can get you killed, tough, tough indeed.


The house that is too big to fall is going to be falling, probably longer then we would like but if you look closely you can see the paint peeling, and the floor sagging, the roof with holes in it, the next good rain, the raccoons will be their only inhabitants.
Stand on the other side of the street, a few houses away so when it does go down, you will not be harmed.
Then these new ideas that have not be able to move forward can be put into place, because we know what will work because we would not be here it we were clueless.

[Bill Ryan]

.
Hi, All:

A quick on-record note to step in to clarify something that may be being used by some others to plant a misconception. Then we can get back to topic.

As I mentioned in my post #1 here on this thread, I'd first reported my concerns to the mods on 28 September. It seems I need to document that. Here's the screenshot:



This was three days before the 1 October publication of the 'Unplugged' interview. I'd not even known that was happening.

I was first asked to take a close look at the situation by a researcher friend, a week or two before that. They'd been in touch with Shane since much earlier in the year, and had become certain there were serious problems. They flagged it themselves, I respected them enough to listen, and so I started the private discussion.

[Morbid]

Posted by Karpos (here)

when listening to so called whistleblowers i frankly dont care much if its true or not. its simply pointless as the energy spent proving that is just not worth it. maybe its better if we just took them at face value and choose whether we wish to accept their reality or not.

Ok, I know we have our own views, but the above way of thinking(?) just drive me nuts. If you don't care if a whistleblower tells the truth or not, then you are in dangerous grounds just entertaining their views. Whistleblowers of the type we pay attention to here are speaking about life and death things, very important ideas that affect our world view and our health. If you don't care if it's true or not, call it what it is, ENTERTAINMENT for you. Some people get a high off of reading these narratives.

There is this idea I always read in neo-spirituality about 'We create our own reality' -- something I think is just wrong or misunderstood.

At what point does someone's reality become a delusion? Besides the physical world, most people are only dealing with the 4th/astral dimension. Some are able to reach higher, and it's these people who usually pay very little attention to whistleblowers and myth makers because they never prove themselves or their stories. These are Real Mystics.

Anyways, if I listen to a guy who creates a fantasy world about himself and the world, like I personally think Shane has done, and then this person shares his story with anyone at all, I'd think he's a run-of-the-mill narcissist, attention seeker. No matter how uplifting his personal Spirituality seems, as soon as this person starts changing classic mythology based on nothing but a blog narrative, putting himself as the son of Anu (hey, Simon Parkes is the son of Anu too!) and the personal occult trainer of Putin? among other things, I'm thinking this guy is just doing some creative writing. WHICH IS WHAT IT IS as it says on the blog. Shane only intimates that it's true by not telling those people who believe it (including Bill Ryan at one point) that it isn't true. He could come out and say it's all REALLY just fiction, or clarify which parts are true and false, or introduce us to a REAL illuminati defector, his supposed intended audience, not a Cassandra who was literally a joke, imo. If it's part fiction and part reality, which parts are which? Is it disinformation? Is it coded fiction? How bout, who gives a F anymore since he will not clear it up right here after days of people scratching their heads.

Here's a prediction. He will not come out and say he made it all up, but he will retain his online friends, while continuing to laugh about how many people were ranting against Cassandra, a made up fictional character. I bet he laughed a lot while reading those responses, which the intended audience would have gotten some giggle out of too, should any of them have actually read his blog.

Karpos. i wouldnt advise you to allow yourself be driven nuts. instead ask yourself whether its my words that drive you there or something else within? you might separate yourself from those that you might consider passive followers not caring where is true and where is false..
believe it or not - when one stops seeking truth from outside, the feeling from within comes knocking. perhaps truth is not to be told, but to be felt?
disregarding the fact of the story being truth or fantasy, its the moral that can be gained from it that is important.
whatever you question - just try meditating on it...
good luck.

[onawah]

What about if we focus on what seems very likely to be true instead of spending so much time on what we can't be sure of?
We could start with what seems to be as well documented as anything that's come along so far; for example, that there are bases on Mars where earth humans are now living.
That sort of thing--which credible whistleblowers like Henry Deacon, Bob Dean, Clifford Stone have attested to.

Perhaps Bill and the Mods could start by creating a new subforum where we can list the things that we pretty well know to be true with links that would substantiate the evidence, and members could add to it if they have something to offer that will hold up under scrutiny. It would be great if Bill and the Mods who have the most access to behind the scenes info would contribute.
That might help us to build a more solid base and weed out the deadwood that keeps cropping up again and again, instead of so much tilting at windmills.
(Perhaps it would also be good to list the info that has pretty well been proven to be untrue, once and for all, as well.)

And it seems like there is a big imbalance of focus on negative, fearful info as opposed to positive, inspiring and supportive info.
I would like to see more of the latter, if it is credible, such as the info about underground bases that were destroyed, which at first seemed implausible, but later was shown to be credible to some extent, at least (and that cheered me up no end!)
It seems obvious a big part of the psy-ops programs is designed to keep us in fear, and all kinds of scary stuff can be invented for that purpose.
On the other hand, of course, most of the positive stuff can be invented to keep us complacent and inactive, though when it's substantiated, it can also help to keep us motivated and feeling courageous and encouraged.
I think we tend to want to sideline the positive info because we are afraid it's going to be disproven, and then we are disappointed and feel foolish for ever entertaining it, whereas we feel like we are being more realistic and practical if we focus on the negative stuff, but that can lead to a generally negative, discouraging mindset, and end up with us feeling drained and used when it's proven untrue.
And it may be that just as much of that is as untrue as the unrealistic, rose-colored-glasses kind of positive info.

I've pretty much given up on reading positive channeled information because so much of that has been corrupted now, apparently, but it looks like just as much of the whistleblower info is corrupted these days as well.

Maybe that is just an inevitable characteristic of polarity ridden 3D living, but it seems like a rut we need to break out of if we are going to evolve into something better.

[Bill Ryan]

.
I just wrote this to Shane. After a moment's thought, I realized I could also post it here.

Dear Shane,

I do think you need to see this post. [I'm referring to #185, just above.] It was starting to become clear there was a need to clarify:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1009866

The screenshot is also attached, just so you can easily refer to it if you want. Do also forward that to anyone you know who may not be as reasonable as yourself.

Separately, Billy tells me you're open to the idea of a well-structured audio conference (we have the 'Zoom' software ready to roll) in which you could answer questions from, and talk with, Avalon members on record. Just like a conference in a room, with a mobile microphone, but audio only.

I've already told Billy that if you wished, I'd not be present at that. I'd be quite happy to be absent, if it made you feel more comfortable.

I'm just in a role (which I actually don't relish at all) of kind of being the 'bad cop' here. There are many others with serious concerns, and who had them way before I did, who for their own reasons have so far not said very much.

I didn't first bring The Ruiner's Blog to Avalon, and nor was I the first to raise a flag. I'm just being a mouthpiece here.

That's part of my job, as it were. I'd honestly far rather be talking about other things. By default, I'm a very trusting, open and positive person. But you already know that.

It's about the information, not about the personalities. I'd very much like to think you agree fully. If you'd like to take part in a conference, and use that to make any clarifying statements that you like, then just let Billy know. I'll do as I'm told here.

With all best wishes ~ Bill

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by onawah (here)
What about if we focus on what seems very likely to be true instead of spending so much time on what we can't be sure of?

Almost everything I have ever been sure of is either

1. in some isolated microcosm, such as in the foundations of mathematics, or
2. something that, given enough time, I have realized was profoundly mistaken.

So I could not contribute much to such a subforum ... sorry .

(My definition of "Self": that which seems forever constant about my existence, even as all that I can name or measure of it has changed.)

[Johnny]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by onawah (here)
What about if we focus on what seems very likely to be true instead of spending so much time on what we can't be sure of?

Almost everything I have ever been sure of is either

1. in some isolated microcosm, such as in the foundations of mathematics, or
2. something that, given enough time, I have realized was profoundly mistaken.

So I could not contribute much to such a subforum ... sorry .

(My definition of "Self": that which seems forever constant about my existence, even as all that I can name or measure of it has changed.)

So far as I know the foundation of mathematics is adopted !

Johnny

[Karpos]

Morbid wrote, "disregarding the fact of the story being truth or fantasy, its the moral that can be gained from it that is important."

Nope. If a story is fiction or historical fiction, or all true should be very clear at the outset. That's a very important (oops) foundation when considering the moral. With Shane's story and those who believe it, you'll get the people who begin repeating bits as if it's true, facts, like draco (evil aliens!) leaving earth. He let's them think it is true. In fact the point might be to make them look foolish.

A whistleblower or anyone with a story like Shane's needs to be very clear about whether their narrative is all true to the best of their knowledge, or a coded narrative of truth and half truth or even lies, which some purportedly mix lies to protect themselves. That last part is BS in my estimation and the definition of disinformation, something that some people seem to be addicted to.

Shane's was an exercise in creative writing, fiction, a nicely written narrative to be sure; it could be considered a purge even, but it got away from him when the "fans" showed up. This is my opinion again.

The TRUTH is objective, no matter how many times or different ways people want to tell themselves otherwise.


Thanks,
/meditating

[Daozen]

I listened to the unplugged interview a couple of nights ago and I liked it a lot. Tons of wisdom there.

[mosquito]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by onawah (here)
What about if we focus on what seems very likely to be true instead of spending so much time on what we can't be sure of?

Almost everything I have ever been sure of is either

1. in some isolated microcosm, such as in the foundations of mathematics, or
2. something that, given enough time, I have realized was profoundly mistaken.

So I could not contribute much to such a subforum ... sorry .

(My definition of "Self": that which seems forever constant about my existence, even as all that I can name or measure of it has changed.)

Far, far too self-deprecating Paul. The mere fact you acknowledge that most of what you thought you knew turned out to be false speaks volumes about your intelligence and awareness. Yours is a very trusted judgment.

[mosquito]

Just some typically vague, rambling thoughts .....

Are people just a little too eager to hear from "whistleblowers" ?
Do they (the whistleblowers) ever really tell us anything of substance ? Something that can make a
difference in our daily lives ? Something that can help us create a better world ?
Are they not just glorified pseudo-celebrities, spinning yarns that aren't really that much more interesting than a sci-fi plot ?
Does it matter, really really matter if there is a group of 2000 year old beings who apparently reincarnate every x years, who
believe themsleves to be custodians of the planet and therefore believe thay are more important than than the rest of us ?
If they truly are our spiritual "parents", then wouldn't humanity be in a slightly better position than it is now ?
By giving credence to these stories - DO WE NOT AFFIRM OUR OWN INFERIORITY to these parasitic "elites" (who may or may not exist) ?

Personally, I don't give a fig for Anu, Cassandra or any of the other characters who've been brought to our attention; to me they are as real as Mr Spock.

Our species is on a collision course with extinction. I'm interested in turning the juggernaut round (if indeed that is the best option, maybe anihilation is the best, in which case I'm more than happy to go along with it). I AM NOT interested in someone else's soap opera, nor in playing control games with pseudo-spiritual beings of dubious provenance.

I ought actually to say something else at this point. We are all susceptible to sweet talk from others, we invariably hear exactly what we want to hear. (Been there got the bloody wardrobe, never mind the t-shirt !) The fact that intelligent, experienced people on this forum have been taken in on more than one occasion is no reason to doubt their wisdom or their judgment. By its' nature, the forum will attract those who either seek attention or who wish to create waves. The admin team here have shown honesty and transparancy in bringing the situation to our attention, we should be thankful. Compare the situation with your politician of choice, who is most unlikely to ever say "I was wrong".

[Pam]

I haven't seen this point addressed, so I will bring it up here. There have been multiple posts here that have brought up the fact that this story must be true because Shane is so nice.

I would like to share a personal observation about myself, that has taken many years to discover. In the "real" world, I have always had a reputation as being a really nice person. It is true that I am kind, and it is true also that I almost never create conflict, and walk away from any when it is near by. I never start conflict and will work to end it if it is near by. For most of my life I would have called this an asset, that I am a really nice person. But the reality is that being a really nice person is no different in many ways than being a jerk. It is a way to deal with the world. To be truthful, I have been able to manipulate outcomes in the workplace being a really nice person just as well as an overbearing, alpha personality can, and no one will even notice that it was I that changed the outcome. At other times, the ultra niceness is used so that no one will question my motives. You have no idea how easy it is to be ulta nice and no one will believe you are the thief , even if you have your hand in the cookie jar. In other words, most people can not imagine a really nice person doing wrong, even if they witness it. Most people equate ultra niceness with ultra goodness and quite frankly, that is not the case. I could go on and on.

What I am trying to say, is that being really, really nice does not necessitate a saintly disposition. Just like all personality types, it is a coping mechanism and an egoic strategy. It is also, an excellent tool for manipulation. Most people will never question someone who is impeccably nice. I also must add that not many people can pull off the ultra nice persona, because it takes a strong aversion to conflict to be able to be "nice" all of the time.

I am not trying to say that I and all nice people are sociopaths. I am simply stating that we too can be guilty of all the flaws of humanity that every other personality type can be. I am also not saying that nice people are not truly nice, because I suspect most are. But as long as we are ruled by an unbridled ego, really our personalities are nothing more than coping strategies.

[DePortugal]

Posted by Paul (here)
Perhaps I'm just some bovine dinosaur,...

Well Paul if you really think you are a bovine dinosaur you will become one if you believe you are.
I cannot say much on the bovine side of your mind because I ignore the evolution of that race but I can help you on the dinosaur side.
Contrary to what you probably believe the dinosaurs are the parents of the reptiles that continued their natural evolutionary process and produced thousands of different races.
Most reptilian races got stuck in the 4th D. in our world and in many others forming several Reptilian Empires.
Many Reptilians think of themselves as being at the very top of the evolutionary scale, exactly as some humans think of themselves.
Very few races of Reptilians were lucky and discovered that the Humans had a DNA that allowed an easy evolution past their 4th D.
So with the voluntary help and Love of some Humans they continued the natural evolution and achieved the 7th and even the 9th D.
I was/will be, profoundly involved in that evolutionary process.
So a bovine dinosaur mind with your human DNA can also become a very interesting evolutionary process.
You do know that everything is possible?
Do you know if there are any limitations on Reality?
None, other than the belief that you embrace!
If you expand your limiting thoughts, shifting your Dogmas, your Programme, then your Reality will expand accordingly.
And so there cannot exist a fixed Truth, a Universal Truth.
It all depends on the level you place yourself.
If you believe in Gravity you probably better not jump from the 2nd floor.
I will give you two examples that Truth or Reality can be changed by your Belief.
If someone believes 100% that he can overcome Gravity he can walk on water or he can levitate himself. Go to Tibet if you have any disbelief.
So we cannot judge the Truth of others, or call them liars.
You can only say that you believe or you don’t believe in what they say.
Truth and Reality is relative, it is not absolute.
If you believe in Free Will you can believe in whatever you want and create gradually the Reality you want to live in and perhaps teach others to do the same, and so we all become FREE gradually…
The greater opportunity for Avalon members is exactly that, to expand their Reality changing fixed Dogmas (religious or scientific) into a vast and different level of understanding.
The only enemy out there, the one you should avoid is Fear, promoted by ignorance or lack of knowledge.
Now to you and Bill:
What is disinformation? Is it untruth mixed with truth? No!
It is someone trying to make you believe in a negative reality, one that will produce Fear.
Or someone trying that you jump into a parallel Reality where Fear will be the outcome.
There is also a very clever disinformation to make you believe on a reality so good that eventually you will not be able to believe in it any more, leaving you alone with Fear.
But if you decide that you want to live a Reality where there is Love and no Fear, there is nothing that they can do to make you jump into a dark Reality.
The Free Will is the first and most important principle in this Universe.
You all must believe only the Reality that feels well, where you are comfortable and gradually expand your Reality always feeling comfortable.
The moment you start to feel Fear you must stop and believe the reverse, Love, as being your truth, the Reality that you want to live in this life.

[OmeyocaN777]

Sometimes you just have to die a little inside (old program-belief) in order to be reborn and rise again as a stronger and wiser version of you......

[Pam]

Posted by OmeyocaN777 (here)
Sometimes you just have to die a little inside (old program-belief) in order to be reborn and rise again as a stronger and wiser version of you......

First of all, that is a friggin cool picture, I could look at it all day.

The other thing, is that many of us are breaking our old program belief systems, one that believes the words of others without using our own discernment and not relying on our intuitive wisdom to function as a guide as to what is true. So there are many ways to look at what you said and many ways to be reborn.

[Selene]

Posted by peterpam (here)
The other thing, is that many of us are breaking our old program belief systems, one that believes the words of others without using our own discernment and not relying on our intuitive wisdom to function as a guide as to what is true. So there are many ways to look at what you said and many ways to be reborn.

Absolutely, Peterpam.

I’ve had my ‘bedrock floor’ of beliefs drop out from under me so many times now that I simply shrug and laugh as I float free ….. again.

Every time I read something new and challenging, it is an opportunity for me to modify my ‘hard shell’ of belief/resistance against the greater universe of wider knowledge and wisdom.

I keep growing, in bits and pieces.

I don’t think or believe the same things today that I believed when I was four – or fourteen – or even forty. And that’s all good.

That’s how we grow and become better: by traveling more and more lightly. By becoming more reliant on our own inner compass, our own inner truth, our own radar. We become stronger by becoming more flexible.

It is yourself - not ‘them’ - who we must truly learn to trust on this journey.

Cheers,

Selene

[sarah22]

Hi All,
I wanted to state here, that I now think I was taken in by Shane. I don't think he is a bad guy either. But I was giving him a lot of credit for connections I had made about my own past and this feeling of profundity that I had ever since reading his blog. I read all the Ruiner's blog posts/comments in many late night binges about two weeks ago now.

It is my personal opinion that Shane is being influenced and that those of us who used to be in the programs, like me, are his target audience. Perhaps, as it has been suggested to me, programmed people are easier to influence because "they" know us so well. Perhaps they were trying to see what would make us tick. I don't know.

But here are the reasons that I think Shane is being used or influenced.

1.) After reading this thread on PA, I decided to take a step back and as objectively as I could, really look at why his blog was so profound for me and what I had actually gotten from it. 20 minutes later, I saw that I had not gotten anything from it. I had made some important connections to my past, but those connections came from hours of research, not from his blog. Reading his blog had prompted me to start that research, yes. But not unlike seeing a painting at a museum that gives you an idea. It's nice, but it has nothing to do with the painter, yet I gave Shane a lot of credit for it.
I also had a deep feeling of "profundity" while reading his blog but when I really looked at that feeling and where it came from, it wasn't his blog, it was the general feel-good or common sense statements that he often makes. Great ideas such as, no one is coming to save us, personal responsibility is important, the earth and humanity are beautiful things worth saving, etc. To me, his blog is a repackaging of a lot of material that has been in the alternative community for a while now.
I was giving this guy a heck of a lot of credit for beliefs I already had, as though he, Shane, was the source of those beliefs. It is not Shane's fault that I gave this credit to him, I did that. But it is very odd to me in retrospect, that I did.

2.) When I came to the above conclusions, in what only took me a surprisingly short 20 minutes, it was like I snapped out of a spell, literally. I know that sounds kind of nuts, but all at once, all this energy came back. Like I had just taken off a heavy backpack I forgot I was wearing. And around my head, it felt like I was shaking off a heavy fog. When this energy came back and this head-fog lifted, I felt like myself again. I lost a week and half to this guy and didn't even notice I was the frog in the soon to be boiling water. I got sort of lost in this blog. Is that his fault? Did he tell me to do this? No, of course not and I don't know the guy from Adam and I not trying to just blame Shane for my poor decision to waste my own time on his blog. But for me, this energy stuff that happened around this, wasn't normal.

Perhaps "they" are trying out some remote influencing, seeing what works, what doesn't, what the triggers are for people like me, to accept this type of thing. I am usually pretty vigilant about my beliefs, but I have been going through a bit of a time, so that could have easily been the vulnerability that they exploited. Or maybe I had some weird, nonsexual crush on someone I initially found arrogant and juvenile but whom, after a week and a half, I believed without question? I am trying to be open to all possibilities here but you know, the latter just seems weird to me.

Hope this is helpful for someone. Thanks to everyone for this discussion

(End note: The reason I mention that I was in programs was to give what I felt was important context for my comments and experience. Not that anyone is even remotely interested but in the off chance someone is, I wanted to write here that I am not ready to talk about my time in the programs. I am asking the wonderful members of this forum to please not contact me about it. It is very personal, painful and not something I am ready to share as of yet. On a forum like this, there are probably more than enough stories from people like me that most people here couldn't care less. But in case a well-meaning member is curious and wants to chat, please do not contact me. Personally, I think Svali and Duncan O'Finioan have already spoken so well about the experience, they would be a better resource than me anyway. You can find their interiews with a quick Google search. Thanks all.)