Wreckage found as Russian passenger plane crashes in Sinai: Egypt

[jaybee]

.

I haven't read all the thread so I don't know if this has been speculated on - (apologies if it has already has)

They ruled out a ground to air missile being used against the plane because of how high it was - but - what if a terrorist group has got hold of an advanced tech laser weapon or something similar?

The so-called 'moderate' rebels - are a bit of myth it seems as they join other more extreme groups - and there was the scandal when a group of these so called moderate rebels gave ISIS all the weapons that the US (and Saudi Arabia?) had given them in exchange for safe passage - a while back (or so the story went)

There's a video where John McCain is getting all gung ho about the situation and when the interviewer asked what America could do now Russia was getting involved in Syria and backing up Assad - he said that they could give the ''''Free Syrian Army'''' the ability to shoot down Russian planes.. 'that equipment is available'

Could the Russian civilian aircraft have been brought down by such 'equipment'.....??

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=tDFql8eE0TA

As I said pure speculation - and until the official investigation report is finished we don't know - but I'm getting a bit suspicious the way Cameron is really pushing the 'bomb on plane' scenario - because there's going to be a huge political backlash for the US / UK etc if it turns out the Russian plane was brought down by 'equipment' made in the West and given to the enemies of Assad -

[greybeard]

Thanks jaybee and all contributors.
I suspect we live in a lunatic asylum.
How, with any compassion or logic, can the end justify the means?

Chris

[greybeard]

The Latest: Putin's flight halt to devastate Egypt tourism

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/la...153335162.html

(This paste is long.)

SHARM EL-SHEIKH, Egypt (AP) -- The latest on the crash of a Russian plane in Egypt that killed all 224 people onboard last Saturday. (All times local.)

5:25 p.m.

Russian President Vladimir Putin's halt on flights to Egypt from Russia will affect tens of thousands of Russians and is expected to devastate Egyptian tourism.

Russian officials and tourism experts say there's about 30,000 to 40,000 Russians now in Egypt.

Tourist flights to Egypt leave daily from many Russian cities. There were 14 Egypt-bound flights Friday from Moscow's Sheremetyevo Airport and another eight flights to Egypt's Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh from Moscow's Domodedovo Airport.

The Egyptian economy is deeply dependent on tourism, and the industry was hurting even before the Metrojet crash Saturday that killed 224 people.

Egypt's Tourism Minister Hesham Zazou said in September that tourism at Red Sea beach resorts was rebounding after years of turmoil following the 2011 ouster of President Hosni Mubarak, but otherwise "tourism is suffering tremendously" in Egypt.

___

5:05 p.m.

President Vladimir Putin's spokesman says the Russian leader's order to suspend all flights to Egypt does not mean that Russia now views terrorism as the main theory behind the Metrojet plane crash.

Spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters on Friday "it definitely doesn't mean that. Not a single theory can be given priority, since there aren't any definite indications to prove it."

Peskov says the flight suspension will last as long as it takes Egyptian aviation authorities to put "a proper level of security" into place.

A Metrojet flight carrying mostly Russian tourists crashed over the Sinai Peninsula on Saturday, killing all 224 on board. U.S. and British officials fear a bomb might have blown up the plane in midair.

___

4:50 p.m.

A spokesman for Russian President Vladimir Putin says all flights to Egypt will be suspended until proper security is in place there.

Dmitry Peskov told reporters on Friday that the suspension will not wait until the results of the probe into Saturday's plane crash is complete. He says it will last as long as it takes Egyptian authorities to put "a proper level of security" into place.

Peskov would not say what these securities measures should be but said the Russian government will hammer out the details together with the Egyptians.

A Metrojet flight carrying mostly Russian tourists crashed over the Sinai Peninsula on Saturday, killing all 224 on board. U.S. and British officials fear a bomb might have blown up the plane in midair.

___

4:20 p.m.

Russian experts have brought plane wreckage samples to Moscow from Egypt to study for possible traces of explosives.

Russian news agencies on Friday quoted Emergency Situations Minister Vladimir Puchkov as saying that experts are sure to find a trace of explosives on the samples if it was a bomb that brought down the Metrojet flight on Saturday.

The Metrojet flying from the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh to Russia's St. Petersburg crashed in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula, killing all 224 onboard.

U.S. and British officials fear a bomb might have blown up the plane in midair while Russian officials say they are looking into all theories of why the plane crashed.

__

4:10 p.m.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has ordered a halt to all Russian flights to Egypt and told authorities to repatriate Russians in the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh pending an investigation into Saturday's plane crash in the Sinai.

Putin on Friday promptly reacted to a suggestion by the Russian intelligence chief, who said it was "reasonable" to halt the flights. Neither Putin nor Alexander Bortnikov offered the timeline for the suspension or the repatriation.

All 224 people aboard the Oct. 31 Metrojet flight from Sharm el-Sheikh to St. Petersburg were killed, and U.S. and British officials fear a bomb might have blown up the plane in midair.

___

4 p.m.

Aviation experts say British authorities are making travelers leave most of their luggage behind when leaving the Egyptian resort of Sharm el-Sheikh so that it can be intensively searched before being put on an aircraft.

The U.K. has grounded all flights to and from Egypt's Sinai Peninsula, saying there was a "significant possibility" a Russian airliner that crashed Saturday was downed by a bomb. All 224 people on the plane were killed.

Britain has not disclosed details about its intelligence, but speculation has focused on a bomb in the hold.

Analyst Paul Beaver said passengers are being told to travel with carry-on luggage only so there can be "the most thorough search" of their luggage by British security officials who have been sent to Sharm el-Sheikh. He said any checked bags would be flown back separately, probably on Royal Air Force jets.

David Learmount, editor of Flightglobal magazine, told Sky News that "not taking any luggage in the bag hold means the underfloor luggage compartment can be sealed, so that nobody can get into it."

___

3:45 p.m.

The head of the Russian intelligence agency FSB says it would be "reasonable" to suspend all Russian flights to Egypt pending the results of a probe into the cause of Saturday's crash of a Russian plane in the Sinai Peninsula.

Russian news agencies on Friday quoted Alexander Bortnikov as saying that investigators should take their time in establishing the cause of the crash. Bortnikov did not provide a timeline for the suggested suspension of flights but said it should cover all tourist flights.

All 224 people aboard the Oct. 31 Metrojet flight from Sharm el-Sheikh to St. Petersburg were killed, and U.S. and British officials fear a bomb might have blown up the plane in midair.

___

3:30 p.m.

Budget airline easyJet says two flights have taken off from Egypt's Sharm el-Sheikh airport and are en route to London, carrying 359 vacationers who had been stranded at the Red Sea resort after British authorities grounded flights.

The airline says one flight is headed to London's Gatwick airport with 180 passengers and another with 179 passengers is bound for London's Luton airport.

EasyJet had originally planned seven other flights to London on Friday and one to Milan, but says those have been cancelled. The airline says it is paying for hotels and additional expenses for its stranded customers.

The U.K. grounded all flights to and from Egypt's Sinai Peninsula on Wednesday, saying there was a "significant possibility" a Russian airliner that crashed Oct. 31 was downed by a bomb.

___

2:30 p.m.

Egypt's civil aviation minister says Sharm el-Sheikh airport will operate eight flights to the U.K. Friday, instead of the 29 flights planned earlier.

Hossam Kamal says in an e-mailed statement that British airlines are flying without passengers' luggage, while the airport isn't able to hold more than 120 tons of luggage left behind.

"This big volume will affect the smooth operation of the rest of the domestic and international flights," says Kamal, adding that a cargo plane is planned to carry the baggage of departing passengers the same day of the departure.

"Egypt fully cooperates with the British side in the light of the resources of the airport and in accordance with international security regulations," says the minister.

___

2:10 p.m.

Britain's government says it is urgently working with Egyptian authorities to make sure planned flights leave the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh.

Anger and confusion reigned Friday at the Sharm el-Sheikh airport after British airline easyJet said Egyptian authorities were disrupting plans to fly hundreds of British tourists back home. Exasperated tourists heckled the British ambassador, demanding to know when they would be flown out.

The ambassador is denying that Egypt is blocking the flights.

The British Department for Transport says travelers should not leave for the Sharm el-Sheikh airport unless they have a confirmed flight and asks for "people's patience at this difficult time."

The U.K. grounded all flights to and from Egypt's Sinai Peninsula on Wednesday, saying there was a "significant possibility" a Russian airliner that crashed Oct. 31 was downed by a bomb.

___

1:55 p.m.

Belgium is advising its nationals not to travel to Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt, until the reasons for the crash of a Russian airliner that took off from the Red City resort are determined.

All 224 people aboard the Oct. 31 Metrojet flight to St. Petersburg were killed, and U.S. and British officials fear a bomb might have blown up the plane in midair. Russian and Egyptian officials say it's too early to know that.

A travel advisory Friday on the Belgian Foreign Ministry website recommended "heightened vigilance" for anyone traveling in Egypt. It says "terrorist acts are regularly committed throughout the territory, chiefly against police and military targets, but they can also affect civilians."

It also recommended against travel in Egyptian border areas close to Libya and Sudan and in the northern Sinai Peninsula.

___

1:40 p.m.

Exasperated British tourists who have waited for hours at the Sharm el-Sheikh airport are heckling U.K. Ambassador John Casson after reports of more flight delays and cancellations.

One irate tourist at the Red Sea resort shouted: "When are we going home?"

Casson says "our aim is to get as many people home as soon as possible" adding there would be more flights out Friday.

Britain has blocked flights to the Red Sea resort amid fears, shared by the U.S., that a bomb brought down a Metrojet carrying 224 people out of Sharm el-Sheikh on Oct. 31. Russia and Egypt say it's too soon to say that.

Casson says Egyptian authorities are not blocking flights from taking the tourists home, as easyJet was claiming.

He told tourists British authorities "will continue to work until we have everybody home. There are challenging, difficult issues to work through, this is a busy airport and we need to make sure people leave in a way that is safe."

___

1:20 p.m.

Air France is stepping up security checks in Cairo and France is warning its citizens to limit travel around Egypt after a Russian jet crashed in the Sinai Peninsula amid fears it was downed by a bomb.

France's Foreign Ministry on Friday urged its citizens to avoid Sharm el-Sheikh, Taba and surrounding areas in Sinai unless they have an "imperative reason" to go.

France also toughened its travel warning for Egypt on Thursday. It strongly urges French travelers to avoid the rest of Sinai, avoid the Nile Delta unless necessary, and use vigilance around Cairo and some other Egyptian cities.

Air France said Friday it is reinforcing screening procedures in Cairo. Air France partner company KLM announced Friday it is only accepting hand luggage on flights from Cairo, but Air France says it is still accepting checked-in luggage.

The Metrojet crash Saturday killed 224 people, mostly Russian tourists.

___

12:40 p.m.

The Dutch foreign minister says his government's decision to issue a negative travel advisory this week for Sharm el-Sheikh airport was linked to lax security.

Minister Bert Koenders told reporters Friday in The Hague: "We have the impression that there are insufficient security measures there."

He stressed the advisory did not cover the whole of Egypt.

Dutch travel companies are preparing to repatriate tourists vacationing at the Egyptian Red Sea resort, the takeoff point for a Metrojet plane that crashed into the Sinai desert on Oct. 31. All 224 people aboard were killed, and U.S. and British officials fear a bomb might have blown up the plane in midair.

Laura Water, a spokeswoman for travel company TUI, says it has cancelled flights on Sunday and Tuesday from Amsterdam to Sharm el-Sheikh and will fly empty planes to the resort to pick up just under 200 of its customers. Returning passengers will only be allowed to take hand luggage on board.

__

12:10 p.m.

British airline easyJet says its plans to fly hundreds of stranded Britons back from the Sinai resort of Sharm el-Sheikh have been disrupted by Egyptian authorities.

The budget carrier had been due to operate 10 flights from the Red Sea resort on Friday, but said eight would not be able to operate because Egypt had suspended British flights from flying into the airport.

Monarch and British Airways said they still planned to operate flights back from Sinai on Friday.

The U.K. grounded all flights to and from Egypt's Sinai Peninsula on Wednesday, saying there was a "significant possibility" a Russian airliner that crashed Saturday, killing 224 people, was downed by a bomb.

___

11:50 a.m.

A spokesman for Russian President Vladimir Putin says Moscow is outraged at a cartoon in the French weekly Charlie Hebdo mocking the Russian plane crash in Egypt.

Dmitry Peskov told reporters on Friday that Moscow views the cartoon as "blasphemy."

It's one of dozens of cartoons in this week's edition of Charlie Hebdo, which has been beset by tensions this year over whether there should be limits, after 12 people were killed at the magazine's offices by Islamic extremists over the paper's publication of caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad.

The small cartoon appears on the magazine's back page and shows plane parts and a passenger falling from the sky onto a bearded, armed man in what appears to be an Islamic robe.

The commentary reads: Islamic State: Russian aviation intensifies its bombardments.

Russians have been bombing Islamic State targets in Syria since end of September.

Lawmakers at the Russian State Duma voiced their outrage as well, calling on the government to blacklist the French publication as extremist literature and insisting that the French authorities react and apologize.

___

11:20 a.m.

In the Netherlands, a KLM spokeswoman would not elaborate on the Dutch carrier's decision to only allow passengers to take hand luggage on board a plane that left Cairo airport on Friday.

Gedi Schrijver repeated a KLM statement that it was a precautionary measure based on "national and international information."

She told The Associated Press that "the airport in Cairo is good, because we can fly there without restrictions, but loading baggage in the hold via Cairo airport we have decided not to do that based on the information."

She would not give any more details about the source of the information that led to the decision.

KLM has no direct flights to the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, from where the doomed Russian plane took off last Saturday.

___

9:40 a.m.

Dutch carrier KLM has instructed its passengers leaving from the Egyptian capital of Cairo that they can only take hand luggage on board the plane departing Friday.

A statement on KLM's website says the measure is "based on national and international information and out of precaution."

It follows a similar announcement from Britain, whose tourists are allowed to only take carry-on luggage as they start leaving the Egyptian resort of Sharm el-Sheikh.

Security officials at the Cairo airport told The Associated Press that flight KL554 left for Amsterdam on Friday morning with only 115 passengers out of the 247 who were booked.

The officials say the remaining passengers refused to leave without taking their check-in bags. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity in line with regulations.

—Maamoun Youssef in Cairo.

___

9:10 am

Egyptian police are carrying out detailed security checks around the airport at Sharm el-Sheikh — the resort from where the doomed Russian plane took off last weekend — after U.K. officials confirmed that flights will start bringing stranded British tourists home from the Sinai Peninsula.

Dozens of busses are waiting outside the airport on Friday morning, with the line stretching up to a kilometer (half mile) as police inspect each vehicle. Most of those onboard are Russian and British tourists.

Britain has said that additional security measures will be in place, including only allowing passengers to carry hand baggage, while checked luggage will be transported separately.

The Metrojet plane crashed 23 minutes after taking off from the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh for St. Petersburg last Saturday, with mostly Russians aboard.

Russia and Egypt on Thursday dismissed Western suggestions that a terrorist bomb may have caused the crash that killed 224 people, saying the speculation was a rush to judgment

[Cidersomerset]

Putin grounds Russia-Egypt flights for crash probe duration

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=N5n_F-7eLdE

Published on 6 Nov 2015

President Vladimir Putin has agreed with the Federal Security
Service to halt all Russian flights to Egypt following an October
31 passenger plane crash in Sinai that killed all 224 people on board.

READ MORE: http://on.rt.com/6vq7

[greybeard]

There Will Be No UK Passenger Flights To Sharm El Sheikh From Now'


https://uk.news.yahoo.com/video/no-u...080503641.html

[Cidersomerset]

Russian plane crash: French 'rule out technical failure'
7 November 2015

Short vid on link...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34753464

The Russian plane crash in Egypt last week was not due to
technical failures, French aviation officials familiar with the
investigation have told the BBC.

Other French officials said the flight data recorder suggested
a "violent, sudden" explosion caused the crash, killing all 224
people on board.

Intercepted militant calls indicate a bomb was put in the hold
before take-off, according to UK officials.

Militants linked to the Islamic State group (IS) say they downed the plane.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34753464

=======================================
=======================================


Russia in mourning: Funerals for Sinai A321 plane crash victims held

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Jwe95dBUHL0

Published on 7 Nov 2015

The move comes a week after a Russian passenger plane with 224 people
onboard was downed over Sinai. The plane crash victims' funerals are set
to take place on Saturday. RT's Daniel Bushell visited one family, where a
mother and daughter died in the ill-fated flight.


RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

[idiit]

Sorcha Faal's got an interesting story out. yeah, I know..... hey, even a broken clock is right every once in a while. new perspective on the matter that could have some merit even though it came from a dubious source.

http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1938.htm

According to this report, the Russian national under the protection of the BDS was Mikhail Lesin who had been dispatched to the United States by President Putin to act as his personal liaison with top Obama regime intelligence officials in negotiating the “circumstances/facts” surrounding the Islamic State’s downing of Flight 9268 over Egypt.

A new Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) report circulating in the Kremlin today states that the Foreign Ministry was informed on 5 November by the Federation Embassy in Washington D.C. that they had been notified by the United States Bureau of Diplomatic Security (BDS) that a Russian national under their protection was found dead in his hotel room from what they believed was a heart attack.

http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1938.htm

^ envoy sent by putin to dc re crashed Russian airliner dies of "heart attack".

lots of juicy stuff. dude did die. he was important figure at the famous Russia today (rt) media site.

Mikhail Lesin. dead
November 7, 2015

http://www.occurrencesforeigndomesti...il-lesin-dead/

[idiit]

This week, in “secret circles,” Britain’s foreign intelligence services leaked information citing Saudi Arabia and Egypt as responsible for “placing a bomb” on the Russian A321 that exploded over Sinai. Now, with examination of wreckage by VT teams moving forward, the likelihood of a shoot down by air to air missiles, the real scenario that best explains one or both Malaysian Airlines “accidents,” is now moving forward.

As the story developed, intelligence agencies flooded VT with stories, all “exclusive,” and all pointing to Saudi Arabia and a “bomb.” Not one word from anyone pointed to Israel though their border was only 22 miles from the point of impact.

That alone is telling. Now, new evidence including evidence presented below that Britain silenced vital reports of an earlier failed shoot down of a “wrong plane,” point the finger to Tel Aviv.

Basically they are saying that one of the engines or the plane its self was hit by an air to air missile. Man-pads only go up to 15,000 feet. This one was at 30,000 feet.

The plane was about 40 miles inside the Egyptian Israeli border. 40 miles is the maximum limit for an AM-RAM air to air missile. If an older Phoenix missile was used on an F-15…farther. This would explain the no contrail argument for a ground launched missile.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/11...rns-to-israel/

I'M INCLINED TO BELIEVE AIR TO AIR MISSLE WHICH WOULD MAKE IT A NATION STATE SPONSERED EVENT. NO WAY WHOEVER DID IT CAN ESCAPE THE SIGNATURE OF THE DEVICE THAT CAUSED THE EXPLOSION.

[Cidersomerset]

Sinai crash investigation: Facts vs speculations known so far

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=tfDL4KyrcGk

Published on 7 Nov 2015


Speculation over a possible bomb onboard the Russian jet is one
of several theories currently doing the rounds. Emergency teams
are scouring an area of over 40 sq km and say they'll need at
least until Monday to complete the operation.

RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

[Rocky_Shorz]

the man who created RT to bring News from outside the Cabal owned propaganda network to Americans was just killed in Washington...

Russian Emissary Death In US Spurs Flight To Moscow Of Plane Shootdown Terrorists...

"A new Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) report circulating in the Kremlin today states that the Foreign Ministry was informed on 5 November by the Federation Embassy in Washington D.C. that they had been notified by the United States Bureau of Diplomatic Security (BDS) that a Russian national under their protection was found dead in his hotel room from what they believed was a heart attack.

According to this report, the Russian national under the protection of the BDS was Mikhail Lesin who had been dispatched to the United States by President Putin to act as his personal liaison with top Obama regime intelligence officials in negotiating the “circumstances/facts” surrounding the Islamic State’s downing of Flight 9268 over Egypt.


Mikhail Lesin (L) with President Putin (R)

"In Mikhail Lesin’s last dispatch to Moscow before his death, this report continues, he described a “contentious/argumentative” meeting with Obama regime officials wherein they made threats against the Federation should Moscow attempt to bring back to Russia two captured American “contractors” from Yemen the SVR has “associated” with the Islamic State terrorists who shot down, and claimed responsibility for, Flight 9268. "

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=WMwxlS6MIBM

As we have previously reported (Islamic State Shootdown Of Russian Plane “Will Be Avenged” Vows Russia and Russian Plane Shootdown Now Labeled “Political Event” As Putin Orders Nuclear War Readiness), based upon satellite data, the SVR was nearly immediately able to ascertain that Flight 9268, which had departed Sharm el-Sheikh in Egypt, was shot down by a British made Starburst surface-to-air missile after it had been “forced/deceived” to a lower altitude by false “communications/electronic” measures sent from Yemen.

The knowledge to the SVR of this secret base in Yemen “misdirecting/deceiving” flights entering into and departing Sharm el-Sheikh, this report notes, was first discovered in August when a British based Thomas Airways flight approaching this area with 189 persons on board was “electronically manipulated” and then fired upon by a surface-to-air missile—but which the pilot was able to evasively maneuver away from with this missile just missing his plane by 1,000 feet.

Based upon electronic intelligence, this report says, the SVR was able to determine that the missile fired against the Thomas Airways flight, and which destroyed Flight 9268, was an act of terror committed by the Islamic State terrorist group known as Ansar Bait al-Maqdis (aka Islamic State of the Sinai or Wilayat al Sinai) about whom US officials had warned “aren’t some run-of-the-mill jihadi crew but one of the most active and potent ISIS affiliates”.

Making this Islamic State terror group in the Sinai even more deadly, this report continues, has been the military and financial support it receives from Saudi Arabia, which includes the Starburst shoulder fired antiaircraft missile given to the Saudis by British company Thales Air Defence who provided these missiles to Saudi Arabia under a contract signed in 2007, and who openly operates in this kingdom.

Immediately after Flight 9268 was shot down by these Islamic State terrorists, this report says, a combined SVR-Spetsnaz (Special Forces) “team” operating in Yemen since the attempted shoot down of the Thomas Airways flight in August, was able to locate the base being used to “manipulate/deceive” flights over the Sinai and captured its two operators—who were identified by the SVR as being holders of American passports and claimed they were working for the United Nations, a claim that was denied by the United Nations.

Upon the initial “interrogation/interview” of these two Americans in Yemen by SVR “experts”, this report says, President Putin dispatched Mikhail Lesin as his personal emissary to the United States due to the “cataclysmic” implications of the information received.

Mikhail Lesin, it should be noted, is a prominent Russian political figure and mass media expert credited with inspiring the creation of Russia Today (now RT) and had a longstanding personal friendship with President Putin.

When learning of Mikhail Lesin’s death, this report states, President Putin ordered all “negotiations” with the US suspended and further ordered the SVR to return to Federation territory the two captured Americans in Yemen—and which we detailed in our report Daring Raid Captures CIA “Assets” Who Downed Russian Plane In Egypt.

Upon these American’s further “interrogation/questioning” upon their reaching Moscow, this report continues, the SVR determined that they were employees of the private US mercenary company Academi, (Blackwater, and XE) and though holding US passports identified their country of origin as being Colombia.

Important to note about these two Blackwater/Academi/XE Colombian-Americans captured by the SVR in Yemen, this report says, are that these mercenaries of Blackwater are reported to have entered Yemen under the guise of the Colombian soldiers.

Recently, in fact, a Colombian-based media group reported that over the next few months, more than 800 Colombian military forces will enter Sana, Yemen, to support Saudi offensive strikes, and to support Saudi allies fighting in Yemen.

As to associating these two captured Blackwater/Academi/XE mercenaries with the CIA, this report concludes, awaits additional financial “examination/confirmation”—but which many SVR analysts believe is only a matter of time till proven true.

To most fully understand this report, indeed all of the other SVR reports dealing with Flight 9268, President Putin’s dispatching of his top media advisor, Mikhail Lesin, to the United States shows the proof that not only does Russia knows this plane was shot down, but also the Obama and Cameron regimes too.

What remains to be determined by Russia and West, however, is not only how best to manipulate the facts of this disaster, but the level of retaliation to be used—which if not measured and balanced, would most assuredly plunge our entire world into war." link

[Rocky_Shorz]

The Sinai Shootdown – It Finally Turns to Israel

"British silence on August failed shootdown places suspicion on British involvement in downing of Russian passenger jet and complicity of "another player"



Today’s startling report of an August 2015 failed missile attack over Sinai, this time on a British airliner, has broken the web of lies and disinformation apart. Too many “leaks,” too many governments running to “bomb” without a shred of evidence, America’s immediate release of satellite evidence of an explosion when America has withheld all evidence in MH17, we are now operating in new territory here.

We are now in a full scale coverup, one that began with phony stories of mechanical difficulties from Al Jazeera, obscene cartoons from “Charlie” Hebdoe, and now floods of crafted disinformation that ignores increasing evidence.

As the story developed, intelligence agencies flooded VT with stories, all “exclusive,” and all pointing to Saudi Arabia and a “bomb.” Not one word from anyone pointed to Israel though their border was only 22 miles from the point of impact.

That alone is telling. Now, new evidence including evidence presented below that Britain silenced vital reports of an earlier failed shoot down of a “wrong plane,” point the finger to Tel Aviv.

Yesterday, the British admitted that one of their airliners was attacked by a missile, possibly an air to air missile fired by an F15. The attempted downing happened on August 23, 2015 and no one was told, not a word, nothing in the news though this startling announcement, reported thus far only in the Daily Mail, should have been earth shattering news.

Was the information withheld because the failed attempt to shoot down a Thompson Airlines jet filled with British vacationers was an accident? Was some other plane the real target, perhaps a Russian plane? Were the British silenced so that the terror operation could go forward and that increased security would be avoided?

Who has this power over Britain?

This week, in “secret circles,” Britain’s foreign intelligence services leaked information citing Saudi Arabia and Egypt as responsible for “placing a bomb” on the Russian A321 that exploded over Sinai. Now, with examination of wreckage by VT teams moving forward, the likelihood of a shoot down by air to air missiles, the real scenario that best explains one or both Malaysian Airlines “accidents,” is now moving forward.

When even President Obama began talking about bombs, the smell of obfuscation was more than simply “in the air.” As government after government, press organizations one after the other began crediting ISIS for planting a bomb on the Russian jet, failing of course to cite ISIS influence in Sinai and Egypt as non-existent in the real world, a fabrication to cover terror acts by Saudi intelligence, the real direction of this investigation became clearer.

From VT’s ex-IAEA investigator Jeff Smith:

Sources in Egypt were far more circumspect about the possible cause of the disaster.

Al-Masri al-Yaum, an Egyptian newspaper, cited an unnamed member of the commission investigating the crash saying that black box analysis suggested a explosion had occurred in one of the engines.

“The presence of a powerful explosion and simultaneous loss of all engine power (in both engines), a fire in part of the fuselage and the destruction of part of the plane in the air,” the source said, in comments picked up by Russian media.

“Samples taken from the remains of the passengers and the aircraft wreckage will determine if there were explosives present or if the blast [in the engine] was caused by technical failure,” the source added.

Basically they are saying that one of the engines or the plane its self was hit by an air to air missile. Man-pads only go up to 15,000 feet. This one was at 30,000 feet.

The plane was about 40 miles inside the Egyptian Israeli border. 40 miles is the maximum limit for an AM-RAM air to air missile. If an older Phoenix missile was used on an F-15…farther. This would explain the no contrail argument for a ground launched missile.

Egyptian radar would be blinded by the mountains at this location from detecting anything coming in from the Israeli side of the border. Israeli military maneuvers were going on in that area at the time. The plane crashed about 22 miles due south of El-Arish International air port and about 25 miles inside the Egyptian border with Israel.

[ Editor’s Note: The Israeli huge air force combat exercises in the desert were mentioned by no media on the first or even the second day I believe. Such a lock down could not have been an oversight. Israel was never mentioned in any capacity…Jim W. Dean ]

Hawk range 30+ miles. Amraam rang 30+ miles. Patriot range 43+ miles.

I-Hawk MIM-23: The MIM-23B has a larger 74 kg (163 lb) blast-fragmentation warhead, a smaller and improved guidance package, and a new M112 rocket motor. The new warhead produces approximately 14,000 2-gram (0.071 oz) fragments that cover a much larger 70 degree arc. The missiles M112 rocket motor has a boost phase of 5 seconds and a sustain phase of 21 seconds. The motors total weight is 395 kg (871 lb) including 295 kg (650 lb) of propellant. This new motor improves the engagement envelope to 1.5 to 40 km (0.93 to 24.85 mi) in range at high altitude, and 2.5 to 20 km (1.6 to 12.4 mi) at low altitude, the minimum engagement altitude is 60 meters (200 ft). The missile was operational in 1971. All US units had converted to this standard by 1978.

The AIM-120 advanced medium-range air-to-air missile (AMRAAM) is a new generation air-to-air missile. It has an all-weather, beyond-visual-range capability and is scheduled to be operational beyond 2000. AMRAAM is a supersonic, air launched, aerial intercept, guided missile employing active radar target tracking, proportional navigation guidance, and active Radio Frequency (RF) target detection. It employs active, semi-active, and inertial navigational methods of guidance to provide an autonomous launch and leave capability against single and multiple targets in all environments.

The AMRAAM weighs 340 pounds and uses an advanced solid-fuel rocket motor to achieve a speed of Mach 4 and a range in excess of 30 miles. In long-range engagements AMRAAM heads for the target using inertial guidance and receives updated target information via data link from the launch aircraft. It transitions to a self-guiding terminal mode when the target is within range of its own monopulse radar set. The AIM-120 also has a “home-on-jam” guidance mode to counter electronic jamming. With its sophisticated avionics, high closing speed, and excellent end-game maneuverability, chances of escape from AMRAAM are minimal. Upon intercept an active-radar proximity fuze detonates the 40-pound high-explosive warhead to destroy the target. At closer ranges AMRAAM guides itself all the way using its own radar, freeing the launch aircraft to engage other targets.

Patriot Guided Missile – The first fielded variant was the round MIM-104A, “Standard”. It was optimized solely for engagements against aircraft and had very limited capability against ballistic missiles. It had a range of 70 km (43 mi), and a speed in excess of Mach 2.
Rocket ‘attack’ on UK tour jet: Pilot with 189 passengers dodged missile above Sharm El Sheikh in August with just ‘seconds to spare from disaster’

Thomson flight from London took evasive action after pilot spotted missile
Holidaymakers were not told they had been just seconds from disaster
Comes amid claims British jihadists discussed ISIS ‘mole’ in Sharm el-Sheikh moments after a Metrojet plane crash in Sinai, killing 224 on board

…by RICHARD MARSDEN FOR THE DAILY MAIL

A British plane carrying 189 passengers came ‘within 1,000ft’ of a rocket as it approached Sharm El Sheikh, it emerged last night. The Thomson flight from London Stansted only took evasive action after the pilot spotted the missile speeding through the air.

The jet landed safely, and holidaymakers were not told they had been seconds from disaster.

The revelation comes amid claims British jihadists had spoken about an Islamic State ‘mole’ at Sharm el-Sheikh airport minutes after a Metrojet plane crashed in Sinai, killing all 224 on board.



A British plane carrying 189 passengers came ‘within 1,000ft’ of a rocket as it approached Sharm El Sheikh, it emerged last night... link

[Cidersomerset]

‘West is keeping us in the dark about ‘bomb intelligence’ says Egyptian foreign minister

By David Icke on 7th November 2015

THE INDEPENDENT.....

Russian plane crash: Egyptian foreign minister claims
allies not sharing intelligence on possible Isis bomb plot

David Cameron said British intelligence showed that a
bomb was 'more likely than not' the cause of the disaster

Lizzie Dearden |@lizziedearden |12 hours ago|




‘Egypt’s foreign minister has claimed the UK, US and other
countries are not sharing intelligence about the Russian
plane crash in Sinai.

David Cameron said British intelligence showed that a bomb
was ‘more likely than not’ the cause of the disaster that killed
224 people last Saturday, while anonymous officials in the US
said initial American investigations came to the same conclusion.’

Meanwhile, Vladimir Putin has remained tight-lipped but cancelled
all flights between Russia and Egypt as Isis’ claim of responsibility
gained traction.Spy agencies reportedly intercepted “chatter”
between suspected militants suggesting a bomb had been hidden
amid luggage in the hold and detonated to bring down the plane.
Sameh Shoukry said no other countries had given the Egyptian
government access to their information.

“The information we have heard about has not been shared with
Egyptian security agencies in detail,” he told a news conference.

“We were expecting that the technical information would be provided to us.”



Read more: ‘West is keeping us in the dark about ‘bomb intelligence’ says Egyptian foreign minister

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6725236.html

====================================================
====================================================
====================================================



By David Icke on 7th November 2015


WASHINGTON TIMES....

White House says Obama has intel about bomb causing Russian plane crash

By Dave Boyer - The Washington Times - Friday, November 6, 2015


‘President Obama’s observation that a bomb may have downed a Russian plane
in Egypt was based on specific information gathered by U.S. authorities, the
White House said Friday.

‘Information that is known by the U.S. government led the president to make
that statement,’ White House press secretary Josh Earnest told reporters.’

Read more: White House says Obama has intel about bomb causing Russian plane crash

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...t-bomb-causin/

[jaybee]

Posted by Cidersomerset (here)


Read more: ‘West is keeping us in the dark about ‘bomb intelligence’ says Egyptian foreign minister

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6725236.html

Of the three theories examined above - the one that is rejected with a cross as 'not credible' is the one I speculated about in my post 81 -

I notice things like that -

when trying to figure out 'stuff' - I find considering what is omitted and taking note of what we are encouraged to believe, (from mainstream and alternative sources) is a useful way to try and get to the bottom of things -

.

[jaybee]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Thanks jaybee and all contributors.
I suspect we live in a lunatic asylum.
How, with any compassion or logic, can the end justify the means?

Chris

Indeed greybeard - it does feel like a lunatic asylum - and what's happening in the Middle East and Syria in particular at the moment can only be described as madness, IMO -

In the post I did with the McCain video I was struck by the fact that he did not look like a well man -

I looked him up to see what he had in his background after Putin made a remark about him having spent years incarcerated in bad conditions in Vietnam -


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain

During the Vietnam War, he was almost killed in the 1967 USS Forrestal fire. In October 1967, while on a bombing mission over Hanoi, he was shot down, seriously injured, and captured by the North Vietnamese. He was a prisoner of war until 1973. McCain experienced episodes of torture, and refused an out-of-sequence early repatriation offer. His war wounds left him with lifelong physical limitations.

now I'm thinking that this is a man who definitely isn't well - not just physically but mentally as well and is probably on medication -

How many world leaders and influential politicians are on medication, not just for pain and similar, but for depression and anxiety...and how does this effect their judgement and emotional state?


Apparently large numbers of ISIS (Al Qaeda and other affiliated terrorist groups) are on drugs - in paricular one called captagon...

It doesn't take a stretch of the imagination to understand how this could affect their actions and make it easier for them to go around doing acts of mass murder, be-headings, violence, suicide bombings and getting all hyper about their religion -

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=nFz39oVhPXY

perhaps the insanity that is so clear to us who are not drugged up all the time isn't clear to those involved - - - ?


The widespread use of anti- depressants etc in America can't be helping, either -

http://www.healthline.com/health-new...n-drugs-062113

Nearly seven out of 10 Americans were prescribed at least one drug in 2009, and half were given two or more, according to new research from the Mayo Clinic.

The most commonly prescribed drugs were antibiotics, antidepressants, and painkilling opioids, according to the study, published this week in the journal Mayo Clinic Proceedings.

Just how many of the key players in this theatre of madness are on mind altering drugs? Is Obama on anti-depressants? He is certainly having to cope with a lot of stress - maybe one day politicians will be required to make public the legal drugs they are prescribed so people can see better what's going on with the people who are making decisions that affect their lives and the future of their country???



.

[idiit]

Just how many of the key players in this theatre of madness are on mind altering drugs? Is Obama on anti-depressants? He is certainly having to cope with a lot of stress - maybe one day politicians will be required to make public the legal drugs they are prescribed so people can see better what's going on with the people who are making decisions that affect their lives and the future of their country???

French President Sarkozy Calls Obama Insane
ByPAMELA GELLER on April 11, 2010
- See more at: http://pamelageller.com/2010/04/fren....A7r8LZce.dpuf

http://pamelageller.com/2010/04/fren...a-insane.html/

^ just one of lots of links to "Obama insane".

Indeed greybeard - it does feel like a lunatic asylum

^ no! say it ain't so!

HOW INSANE IS JOHN MCCAIN?

STATESMAN. PATRIOT. POSSIBLE ANGER MANAGEMENT ISSUES.

THE CRAZY ANTICS OF JOHN MCCAIN
WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 5, 2008

http://howinsaneisjohnmccain.blogspot.com/

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Of the three theories examined above - the one that is rejected with a cross as 'not credible' is the one I speculated about in my post 81 -

no way can an air to air be crossed out as possibility. maybe a drone? maybe a fighter jet fired the missile?

[jaybee]

Posted by idiit (here)
no way can an air to air be crossed out as possibility. maybe a drone? maybe a fighter jet fired the missile?

I was thinking more of something on the ground, like a mobile laser weapon or similar with links to Global Positioning System..?

something about as big as a small car that could have a long range capability and be hidden or camouflaged quite easily - something that might have been given to the so-called mythical 'moderate rebels - by the US or Saudi Arabia..

(speculation) ^

When it comes to madness - Obama and McCain can't be singled out as the only ones - Bush seemed off his rocker a lot of the time and I seem to remember reading somewhere that he was on Prozac - but don't quote me on that as it's from memory..

cheers

.

[Akasha]

Israel Held ‘Largest Ever’ Air Combat Drill Nearby, On Same Day as Russian Sinai Crash.

.....The “Blue Flag” exercise, which is continuing through November 3, pits the Israeli Air Force, the United States Air Force, Greece’s Hellenic Air Force and the Polish Air Force against a fictional enemy state, the captain in charge of all IAF exercises told The Times of Israel Thursday night.

A number of other countries, including Germany, also sent pilots and officers to observe the exercise, but did not take part.

This joint drill is the second “Blue Flag” exercise; the first took place in 2013 and was the largest multi-lateral exercise the IAF had ever hosted.

The various air forces collaborated closely through every step of the current exercise, the IAF captain said, from planning to execution and finally to debriefing..... Full article here

Ovda Airfield was the base for the exercise.



By my estimation (using the path function on Google Earth) it looks to be around 55 miles from the crash site.

[Hervé]

Yeah... how the hell can it be that anything is possible:

Italian govt suspects bizarre fires in Sicily caused by 'large amount of EM energy' from 'top secret weapon of unknown power'

Nick Pisa The Telegraph, UK Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:34 UTC


SOTT Comment:

In light of the anomalous nature of what little evidence has thus far emerged concerning what happened to Russian Flight 9268, we're re-running this article about weird fires in northern Sicily in 2007.

Household objects, including unplugged electrical appliances, spontaneously burst into flames in the town of Canneto di Caronia in northern Sicily

Aliens were responsible for a series of unexplained fires in fridges, TVs and mobile phones in an Italian village, according to an Italian government report. Canneto di Caronia, in northern Sicily, drew attention three years ago after residents reported everyday household objects bursting into flames.

TV news footage at the time showed electrical appliances as well as cookers, a pile of wedding presents and furniture smouldering. Dozens of experts including scientists, electrical engineers and military boffins, arrived in the village 60 miles east of Palermo to investigate the phenomenon.

Arson was quickly ruled out and at one stage an amazed scientist was interviewed after he described how he saw an unplugged electrical cable burst into flames.

Locals were quick to blame supernatural forces and at the time the Vatican's chief exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth backed up their fears and said: "I've seen things like this before. Demons occupy a house and appear in electrical goods. Let's not forget that Satan and his followers have immense powers."

Now, in an interim leaked report published by several Italian newspapers, it has emerged that the Civil Protection Department has concluded the most likely cause was "aliens".

SOTT Comment:

Actually, as we'll see below, that is NOT what the report said. "Aliens" is The Telegraph, like all Western media at the time, pre-emptively sensationalizing the findings of this Italian government report. The reason they did this, we suspect, was to 'blow smoke' on behalf of the perpetrators.

The report was ordered by the Italian government and brought together dozens of experts including a NASA scientist. Their two-year investigation has cost an estimated £1 million.

According to the report, the fires were "caused by a high power electro magnetic emissions which were not man made and reached a power of between 12 and 15 gigawatts."

The report also detailed a possible UFO landing close to the village, citing "burnt imprints which have not been explained were found in a field."

Francesco Mantegna Venerando, Sicily's Civil Protection chief who coordinated the report, said:

"This is not the final report. We are still working on our conclusions and this has been leaked. We are not saying that 'little green men from Mars' started the fires but that unnatural forces capable of creating a large amount of electromagnetic energy were responsible. This is just one possibility we are also looking at. Another one involves the testing of top secret weapons by an unknown power, weapons capable of producing an enormous amount of energy."

[Hervé]

Consistent with an EM spraying of the plane is the incoherence and inconsistent data received by FR24 stations:

... the data sent and received shows the sensors went all berserk!

[Hervé]

A321 Crash Investigators Call on Media to Stop Using Anonymous Sources

World19:21 08.11.2015
(updated 19:33 08.11.2015)

© Sputnik/ Maxim Grigoryev

The head of the Egypt-led investigation committee called for accurate media coverage of the A321 crash investigation.

MOSCOW (Sputnik) — While covering the developments related to the Russian A321 plane crash in Egypt, media should rely exclusively on official statements, while any "uncertain" sources should be avoided, the head of the Egypt-led investigation committee said on Sunday.

© Press-service of Russian Emergency Situations Ministry

On Saturday, the Egypt-led investigation committee issued a statement, according to which the reason for the Russian Kogalymavia plane crash in Sinai is yet to be determined. The following day, Reuters reported, citing a unidentified member of the inquiry, that investigators into the plane crash in Egypt were "90 percent sure" the noise heard on the final seconds of a cockpit recording was an explosion caused by a bomb. "News and media claims, quoting an anonymous source, allegedly one of the members of the Commission, are incorrect, and should not prevail," Ayman Muqaddam was quoted in the statement published by the Egyptian Ministry of Civil aviation.

The head of the commission has also called for accurate media coverage of the A321 crash investigation.

On October 31, the Russian Kogalymavia airliner, carrying 224 people, crashed in the Sinai Peninsula en route from Sharm El-Sheikh to St. Petersburg. All people on board died in what has become the biggest tragedy in Russian and Soviet civil aviation history.

============================================

A321 Crash Investigators Call on Media to Stop Using Anonymous Sources

... that's "News-speak" for: "MSM: Quit spreading unreliable, unverifiable infos!"