The Spider in Roswell - A Conversation With Joseph Farrell

[giovonni]

From Forum Borealis

"What happened to the missing Nazi scientists? Did the Bell-project lead to flying disks such as what crashed in Roswell (rather than an E.T. spacecraft)? What's the evidence for a connection to Bormanns exile-Nazi Network? When did the Military-Intelligence-Industrial complex definitely attain A-G technology? Following the thread from our previous talk, Dr. Farrell returns to make a case for Roswell as a mundane security risk, not an alien encounter. Additionally we get a fresh report from the recent SecretSpaceProgram conference (https://secretspaceprogram.org/) ...

AND we declare our views on the NaZionism Race Cults, to set the record straight."

Bio

Guest: Dr. Joseph Patrick Farrell

Born: Sioux Falls, South Dakota, 1957

Education: B.A. in Biblical Studies and Philosophy (John Brown University.), M.A. in Historical and Theological Studies (Oral Roberts University), and Ph.D. in Patristics of Pembroke College at the University of Oxford.

Associations: At the Advisory Board of Dr. John DeSalvos Great Pyramid of Giza Research Asssociation.

Features: He has appeared in several documentaries & TV shows, radio broadcasts & podcasts. He is also one of the regularspeakers at the Secret Space Program Breakaway Civilization Conferences.

Experience: Dr. Farrell was an Adjunct Professor of Patristic Theology and Apologetics at California Graduate School of Theology and Saint Tikhon's Orthodox Theological Seminary. He was also a student of Metropolitan Kallistos Timothy Ware. He has studied pipe organ from the age of six until beginning college, composes classical music and plays the harpsichord. He is now a full time researcher, author & speaker.

Website: http://gizadeathstar.com/

Published on Dec 22, 2015

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Fya5u-TxBoc

[moekatz]

I plan to savor this video later today. Farrell is a gem of a researcher and a good read. Amazing that his insights always point to a true north. FREEDOM/FARRELL.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by moekatz (here)
I plan to savor this video later today. Farrell is a gem of a researcher and a good read.

I've saved it for this evening too, and yes, he's a most excellent researcher. Kudos to Joseph, and we need more like him.

With a caveat that I've not yet seen this, I do profoundly disagree with his thesis (previously presented) that the Roswell crash may have been a Nazi-connected event. (I believe Richard Dolan does, also, btw.)

But sometimes real dots connect in unexpected ways, and we need to keep collecting all the evidence, whatever it is. If I do ever disagree with Joseph, it's with the utmost respect for him.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
With a caveat that I've not yet seen this, I do profoundly disagree with his thesis (previously presented) that the Roswell crash may have been a Nazi-connected event.

Perhaps the primary powers behind whatever crashed at Roswell are neither Nazi's nor Aliens, but the Magicians of the Gods.

In other words, perhaps the surviving elite of Atlantis, after the immense world-wide flood 11,600 years ago that destroyed it, beneath the rising ocean, have finally brought human civilization back to a level where humanity can recreate their high technology.

Graham Hancock does a powerful job in his Magicians of the Gods book, based in part on a wealth of evidence much of what was not even available five or ten years ago, making the case for just such a flood and just such a surviving elite from Atlantis with knowledge of esoteric technology that vanished from public understanding after the flood.

Only now, once again, is such esoteric technology being recreated on a large scale by our civilization.

Perhaps both "aliens" (in present times) and "gods" (in times of yore) are one of the covers that these elite use, to cover their hidden hand.

Perhaps the "was it Nazi's or was it Alien's" question is a false dichotomy. It would be far from the first such, if it was.

[norman]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
With a caveat that I've not yet seen this, I do profoundly disagree with his thesis (previously presented) that the Roswell crash may have been a Nazi-connected event.

Perhaps the primary powers behind whatever crashed at Roswell are neither Nazi's nor Aliens, but the Magicians of the Gods.

In other words, perhaps the surviving elite of Atlantis, after the immense world-wide flood 11,600 years ago that destroyed it, beneath the rising ocean, have finally brought human civilization back to a level where humanity can recreate their high technology.

Graham Hancock does a powerful job in his Magicians of the Gods book, based in part on a wealth of evidence much of what was not even available five or ten years ago, making the case for just such a flood and just such a surviving elite from Atlantis with knowledge of esoteric technology that vanished from public understanding after the flood.

Only now, once again, is such esoteric technology being recreated on a large scale by our civilization.

Perhaps both "aliens" (in present times) and "gods" (in times of yore) are one of the covers that these elite use, to cover their hidden hand.

Perhaps the "was it Nazi's or was it Alien's" question is a false dichotomy. It would be far from the first such, if it was.

I hope that's not the truth.

The idea of an elite that escaped while the rest floundered, and now they are coming back, fills me with dread.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by norman (here)
The idea of an elite that escaped while the rest floundered, and now they are coming back, fills me with dread.

Perhaps the esoteric knowledge outlasts its human agents. Perhaps it's not the same elites, in any strongly defined genetic or inherited property or status sense.

Perhaps secret knowledge, known to the elite of Atlantis, has been passed down through the millenia, as secret writings, rituals and tellings, by an evolving array of families and institutions. Perhaps now that knowledge, like a scattering of seeds in a frozen tundra now seeing the arrival of spring, is coming to life with the arrival, the past few centuries, of a blossoming planetary civilization whose economic, technical, manufacturing, computational and communication (and, alas, war making) capacities are once again on the rise and capable of developing and using such knowledge on a wide spread basis.

Perhaps the moral foundation required for the proper use of these newly rediscovered abilities must come from us, the humans of this time.

Perhaps we, humanity, must now overcome the natural tendency of the most power hungry to gravitate to the positions of greatest influence and to seek a monopoly on the mechanisms of power.

[Cardillac]

to confuse matters even more: according to renegade historian Douglas Dietrich (usually available on YouTube under "critical ommissions") he claims the Roswell craft was Japanese (Axis nation); I'm not stating I agree with Dietrich but I have to agree with Farrell that how advanced alien pilots could suddenly become bad pilots once they reached the earth's atmosphere; if these aliens were that advanced to reach our planet from other solar systems they must have had previous knowledge of the dangers of the earth's atmosphere (if our atmosphere is dangerous)-

Larry

[Bill Ryan]

.
It's a very interesting interview (as one would expect). A few notes:

• At the start of the interview, Joseph describes (6:45) how the recent Secret Space Program Conference was lobbied in several ways, in person by various groups and via fabricated (false) promotion, by followers of Corey Goode, who'd wanted him to be there. They were apparently a real nuisance. Joseph was very disparaging about this.

• The Forum Borealis host ('Al the Pal') is very fluent and articulate in a language not his own, and is very knowledgeable about some things, but (in my opinion) comes over as irritatingly condescending and arrogant. He rejects the 'extraterrestrial hypothesis', and makes inappropriate, subtle jokes about it. He's kind of elitist in his view of himself and a core group of others understanding the real truth about history, while others are not as clever as him. Not cool.

• Joseph Farrell, although he's always careful in what he says, basically also rejects the idea of aliens. His arguments are interesting, but while he's really an academic document researcher, and always stresses the importance of documents over whistleblowers (who he's kind of irritated by and doesn't respect), he's very selective in the evidence he cites.
  
  He ignores (he never mentions it, although he must be aware of it) key material such as SOM1-01 (a Special Operations Manual published in 1954), widely accepted by highly experienced researchers as being almost certainly 100% genuine. (A thread about this is here: The Smoking Gun - Special Operations Manual SOM1-01)

[KiwiElf]

Sorry, I don't buy Farrells' theory of the Roswell ship being built by Nazi's AT ALL!.

Of course you'd call in the experts at the time - those being the Nazi's bought in with Paperclip etc (because of their advanced saucer designs & Die Glocke (Nazi Bell), & Horton Bros (because they had designed an advanced flying wing which resembled the "look" of the Roswell ship) - to examine the Roswell craft (which actually crashed in Socorro, not Roswell - it was initially bought into Roswell (from Socorro) with the bodies and then shipped off to Wright Patterson - then known as Wright Field - along with the debris found at Brazel's ranch)

Crash site 1: Mac Brazels Ranch - several hours drive OUT of Roswell - just debris - LOTS of debris - and bits of beams with heiroglyphics on it - and the foil with "magical properties" - no (whole) ship and no bodies

Crash Site 2: 240 km (149 miles) north of Roswell near Socorro - a whole, damaged, V-wing-shaped craft, and bodies which were in every single witness testimony described as anything but human (OK we'll say "greys"), discovered by an archaelogy team in the area at the time - the Army turned up a short time later (Why on Earth would the Nazi's have 3.5 ft tall "dwarf" pilots dressed in a material which could not be recognised and who's corpses gave off such a stench they had to be placed in hermetically sealed, child-sized coffins????)

(After all this time, I still can't believe the number of people out there who still think it was just ONE crash at Roswell and am even more dumbfounded by those who think it was the ONLY documented UFO crash! There are over 50 well documented cases of UFO crashes around the world both before and after Roswell!)

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...lien-Occupants

The NAZI's indeed had some very advanced technology but NOTHING compared to what they found on the Roswell craft; its construction, power source, materials, controls were unlike anything known to ANY nation on Earth at the time - including the Nazi's - (and since Roswell, various "researchers" have pointed the finger at the Japanese, the Nazi's and the Soviets along with the absurd weather/MOGUL balloon story!).
Die Glocke (or Nazi Bell) is a completely different story and technology altogether.

The Horton's built, (but debatable if they actually flew it), a conventionally powered (ie jet engined) flying wing, very advanced and stealthy for its time but just an airplane! Yes, it did have a vague resemblance and was a similar size to the Roswell ship (but about the same as comparing a Piper Cub to a Cessna 172!). To the untrained eye it would have been reasonable to take a [quick] look at the Roswell ship and simply assume it was an advanced Horton Bros design.

The Roswell ship was also described as a V-wing-shaped craft (not a "flying saucer" contrary to popular myth) - with no recognisable form of powerplant AT ALL.

IMO, It's Farrel who's twisting the story, not the other way around. Sorry, there have been over 350 witnesses who have come forward since Roswell, many of them first hand, and he's trashing almost 80 years of in-depth research. That many witnesses cannot all be wrong. Perhaps he needs to dig (MUCH) deeper into the first hand witness testimonies of those involved at the time instead of his extremely narrow research of a single reference to the Horton Bros (or little men) in an "official document" (or the infamous Roswell newspaper article).

I'd suggest that Col. Phillip Corso's testimony & credentials alone far outweigh Farrells' on this subject - Corso WAS THERE.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...117#post639117

Again, trying to find just ONE answer to the riddle of Roswell isn't the way to go.

If the NAZI's built the Roswell ship, then they were NAZI's from the future (and who knows? It's possible)

[KiwiElf]

Posted by Cardillac (here)
to confuse matters even more: according to renegade historian Douglas Dietrich (usually available on YouTube under "critical ommissions") he claims the Roswell craft was Japanese (Axis nation); I'm not stating I agree with Dietrich but I have to agree with Farrell that how advanced alien pilots could suddenly become bad pilots once they reached the earth's atmosphere; if these aliens were that advanced to reach our planet from other solar systems they must have had previous knowledge of the dangers of the earth's atmosphere (if our atmosphere is dangerous)-

Larry

The "how can advanced aliens crash?" is an old - and very inaccurate - "meme" and it's been bought up many times in the past. Despite even our most advanced aircraft, (or cars and boats for that matter) electronics and GPS, our latest planes & pilots STILL crash. The biggest selling light airplane atm is the Cirrus SR-22. It has the latest, greatest and "bestest" of technology you can put in an airplane including a parachute for the whole airplane. It also has the WORST accident record of any airplane ever built - mostly caused by pilot error (not a fault of the plane).

(Many serious airplane crashes involve some of our most experienced pilots).

Airbags, ABS, computers & traction control have NOT made safer drivers or crash proof cars

I'm sure advanced alien craft and their pilots are not infallible either.

[Cardillac]

@KiwiElf

have you even read Dr. Farrell's "Roswell and the Reich"?- you have not stated this- if you have even read the book you might want to think differently- if you have read the book then please quote documented info to the contrary- I rest my case-

I'm not attacking you personally- I just want documented info to prove Farrell wrong-

be well-

Larry

Larry

[KiwiElf]

No I haven't Larry and thanks for the recommendation.

My commentary above was in reference to the OP video interview. I have read Corso's book and many others on the subject over the last 50 years. I think what I said above fairly well points out in a nutshell, the error's of Farrell's methodology (I'm not suggesting everything he's said is wrong); when you research something like this you don't narrow it down by ignoring substantial evidence which has gone before. And yes, I'm VERY familiar with the "alleged" NAZI technology of the period - it was far more advanced than any other country had at the time, but not as advanced as the Roswell craft.

And if I may ask, have you read Corso's book?

Cheers

[KiwiElf]

Posted by Cardillac (here)
@KiwiElf

have you even read Dr. Farrell's "Roswell and the Reich"?- you have not stated this- if you have even read the book you might want to think differently- if you have read the book then please quote documented info to the contrary- I rest my case-

I'm not attacking you personally- I just want documented info to prove Farrell wrong-

be well-

Larry

Larry

To better answer your question; the end summary review of "Roswell and the Reich" by Stanton Friedman who could arguably be considered one of the most knowledgeable researchers of the Roswell case (emphasis is mine):

Overall, I must conclude that Farrell has done a lot of research on Nazi flight technology, but fails in his attempts to explain Roswell as something other than ET. As with many expositors about Nazi technology, he doesn’t seem to understand that one can find loads of drawings, diagrams, sketches of exotic vehicles, even though they have never been built or tested. Nick Redfern was wrong about handicapped Japanese being in a Horton Brothers flying wing sent up to obtain radiation shielding data for use in a nuclear powered aircraft. Farrell is wrong about Nazi technology explaining Roswell and the government cover-up.

Full review here:
http://www.theufochronicles.com/2010...onnection.html

Listening to the "errors" in the above OP video interview, I tend to agree...

To quote another member from Avalon (Atlas):

Two Rules to Live By
1. Don’t Believe Me or Anyone Else
2. Do Your Own Research – This is a starting point…

[Al Borealis]

Tally-ho there Bill & the Avalon crowd! Al from Forum Borealis here. Just wanted to reply to your review.

First let me compliment you on the community you've got going here. I'm not paying enough attention, so I actually thought your project was over, but I see it has fortunately transformed instead. Some of the old shows at Project Camelot was an important inspiration to us, and one of the best interviews I think you've done Bill, was with Klaus Dona! Thank you for your service and bringing so many noteworthy people & ideas to our attention.

Now let me correct some misunderstandings and clarify our position.

I can't speak on behalf of Dr. Farrell, but my impression is not that he blames Corey Goode personally for the people who interrupted. For all we know they may be agent provocateurs or simply overzelous fans of the copycat SSConferance.

Now, i may be (inadvertently) arrogant (better polish that), but I can assure you I have not rejected the ET Hypothesis. The "core group" you would be refering to, is the relatively new camp within the system critical circles who has advanced (IMHO) the understanding into a more synthetic and realistic version, with a scholarly and sober attitude, realizing that the elite has become a Breakaway Civilization and that there indeed is advanced AG vehicles out there controlled by humans (from earth and otherwise).

Now, why are we criticising the old paradigm that more or less worship the ET notion as a religion? Because its simply not sufficient. Also, it is in many cases a derailment. More and more people realize that the MAJORITY of unknown aerial and spatial AG phenomenons, are indeed produced at our very planet. Does this exclude other sources to these phenomenons too? Not at all. A manifestation can have different sources, and a source can produce different manifestations.

As we've pointed out in our conversations with Richard Dolan (The Case for a Breakaway Civilization: https://youtu.be/zoXxqdg4gl8), Daniel Liszt (Enemy of the Deep State: https://youtu.be/QfqR9PDYsyI) and Tim Swartz (Factions of Breakaway Civilizations: https://youtu.be/XwrNYMjS68s) there are MANY plausible hypothesis to account for this phenomenon; everything from inter-dimensional and/or consciousness entities (be that in the form of Hancocks psychedelics or Jungs archetypes) to time-travelers (human or otherwise), to name just a few, and of course included in this is also the classical disneyish "little green men from mars" notion.

The reason we are focusing LESS on the mainstream hollywood version creatures ala Mars Attacks and more on human activity, is because the alien ET concept have 99% of the attention already, and is even a paradigm more or less sanctioned by TPTB. Moreover, it's much easier for us to deal with this problem if people become aware that other folks is out there playing around with this technology. We can't do much with someone who has journeyed light years and seven heavens to get here, but we can hopefully do something with those who have their base in our very backyard.

Now, I have rarely heard anyone from the old guard who completely dismisses that there are black-ops AG vehicles flying about. In fact, it seems to me that more and more of them are coming around to this - dare I say - more updated and evidence-based realization. BUT - many of them need to deal with their emotional attachment to their childhood belief in martians, because so many of them often display a religionistic attitude to this matter. Because albeit they do agree - and even think that the terrestrial AGVs are back-engeneered alien spacecrafts - they ALWAYS jump to the ET conclusion when accounting for specific cases. It seems to me they want to have their cake and eat it too.

Seriously though, if different human groups are playing around with this technology, they need to realize that this also means that they are flying about in our airspace. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to acknowledge this (since most of them were Nazis they probably would). Roswell is a good example and you see the problem also in the reception of Dr. Farrells book among the dogmatists. They cheery pick what to ignore and what to accept, due to a faith based bias. We can't work like this, really. Either be evidence-based and accept every aspect of reality, even if there are seemingly contradicitons - or they must come clean about a faith-based position. We can't argue with faith, of course.

Look, even if you reject that Roswell was of a terrestrial origin (even mainstream authors like Ann Jacobsen alleges this now, based upon countless insiders in the american military-industrial complex - including Pentagon, CIA & Area 51 workers - only they claim its Sovjet and not Nazi of course - never the Nazis!) - you still need to take heed for the fact that SOME of the cases, if not almost all, are "ours". So if not Roswell, which is it? So rarely do I hear them entertain the terrestrial explanation in specific cases, they only do this at a general basis. This doesn't compute.

Well, that's ok actually - since there's room for different hypothesis and views. We all have in common that we are dissidents seeking the truth. We should not attack each other like enemies, lest we support TPTBs strategy of split and rule. But we should be able to conduct civilized discussions on the matters, tolerating also matter-of-fact criticism - that's how we improve our understanding - indeed disagrements are healthy (thesis-antithesis-synthesis).

So Forum Borealis is not here to dismiss, deny, ridicule or demean the more traditional segment of the alternative community, but to create an outlet, a voice, and a forum to the emerging postmodern view. If anyone feels the latter is some kind of threat (unless they belong to TPTB of course, they ought to) they need to re-examine their own internal emotional mechanism, don't you think?

Forum Borealis acknowledges Project Camelot as an important groundbreaking alternative source back in the day, but we do not find it sufficient (nobody can cover everything) and want to expand on the particular niche we are currently exploring and unfolding. Camelot did their thing, we are doing ours (and I wouldn't even really compare, because both the contents and format is different). We associate more with currents like (to name but a few) Dark Journalist, Secret Space Program Conference, The Ancient Civilization camp (rahter than Ancient Astronauts/Aliens), etc. But everyone has their own unique approach and no one is uniformist here. I think all of this accords with your Avalon project too, if Im not mistaken.

If it is elitist to promote an understanding that has received less attention and merits more exploration, on the expanse of the old mainstream view, than so be it. Otherwise, I think you will recognize where we're coming from and acknowledge if not agree with that. I think the biggest difference we have with what guests we choose, is that where Camelots had a majority of insiders & whistle-blowers, the majority of ours are scholars and researchers. I won't go into details about why here & now, since its such a huge topic, but suffice to say we crave objective, verifiable, and tangible accounts, easy to relate to for everyone. The price may be less spectacularity, but that's ok - we also need to cater to the more sober truth seekers among our dissident ranks. As long as there are outlets for all the different voices - all is well.

So I hope you good people here at Avalon will grant us a voice without condemning it for not singing every tune in resonance with the classical alien paradigma. Certainly we do not condemn the latter - indeed - ET is a part of the big puzzle, but not such a significant part as the alien paradigm crowd believe, or at least not as significant in terms of how we should relate to it, imho.

Again, without representing Dr. Farrell, I know for a fact that he does NOT "reject aliens", so please don't spread such a misrepresentation. Not only does he talk about it, he has also written about it (despite there's no lack of writings on the matter, in contrast to his main book themes). However, since non-terrestrials would be the HARDEST factor to provide evidence for and research, any serious scholar should therefore also be careful in their reference to this, as much of it has to be speculations and hypothesis. Fine & dandy, but as long as there's stuff in this area availabe for research - such as the Nazi bell project in Argentina - that therefore deserves more attention from those who are into research.

In fact, I think the old guard does not reject the terrestrial aspect in this just like the postmodern camp doesn't reject the alien aspect - both just have different priority in main focus. Can we hold hands and sing Kumbaya now, or should we render suspicion upon each other?

I'm not really sure where you are in all of this Bill, but my impression is that you adhere more to the ancient alien/astronaut hypothesis (I'm more conccerned with the Antediluvian Civilization approach), although the gods know you've given voice to all sorts of aspects and versions through the years and kudos for that. Hopefully, you will agree that it is important to have different outlets for different angles, yet all working together for the common good and higher purpose of uncovering the totality of truth in this complex universe of ours.

By the way, next time we discuss the topic with Dr. Farrell, we shall ask him about the SOM1-01.

I hope this brings a better understanding to where we're coming from and what our position is. My personal flaws are another matter though, I will have to work upon that

Thanks for letting me into your excellent forum and keep up the good work.
B.C.N.U. - Your pal Al

[giovonni]

Greetings AlZen ~ Welcome to Avalon !

So good to see you here

[Al Borealis]

Giovonni: Great thing you've got going here - keep it up buddy!

[kemo]

I read the last few posts and my immediate response was 'come off it'. Sgt Cliff Stone - to name but one - was in crash retrieval and doesn't require any quasi-religious belief or any intellectual theorising to tell him what he experienced. And he has quite of bit of evidence too. Neither does Charles Hall need to rationalise his experiences with the Tall Whites (though he is religious in a conventional sense) and Corso was pretty clear about Roswell. I don't doubt that there is a secret space programme which is of course technologically as well as politically and maybe even theologically dynamite. But the question which arises inevitably is where the technology came from. Bob Lazar (who I credit) was involved in back-engineering ET craft and as he quipped 'there wouldn't be much point in back-engineering them if they were ours' or words to that effect.

Since we now realise that there are potentially billions of planets within our own galaxy capable of supporting life it seems almost hidden in plain sight that we are being visited by many ET races and have been for millenia. To some of us that is just obvious and to state that because the ET hypothesis (I don't think it's a hypothesis, it's a fact on the balance of probabilities, which is what a 'fact' is) is harder to research than what to me are peripheral (though important) subjects seems to me a case of not seeing the wood for the trees. And this must be said: there is a very obvious reason why incidents involving ETs are harder research which is that any hard evidence is very quickly seized by TPTB and as Ben Rich said of research sealed up in black ops projects it would take the power of god to get out. The truth about ETs may even be beyond the power of god. Certainly beyond the powers of mere presidents. Sorry, the ET issue and the cultural let alone technological etc implications is still by far the big tomale for my money.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by AlZen (here)

Tally-ho there Bill & the Avalon crowd! Al from Forum Borealis here. Just wanted to reply to your review.

Excellent, Al — a warm welcome here from me, too. I sincerely appreciated your long and thoughtful post.

This is just a brief acknowledgement. I will reply in kind, as it fully deserves.

[Al Borealis]

Kemo, of course there's many serious and sober people who focus mainly on the ET angle. But you can't deny that much of it has been hijacked long ago and turned into superficial enterteinment and also cults. Read Jaques Vallee, one of my favourite scientists on this area, and what he accounts for in such books as Messengers of Deception.

I also credit Lazar. Ever since I learned about the Element 115 thing, because I had some independent information in this regard - and now its even confirmed officially.

[161803398]

We do, if we are looking for truth, have to be concerned about the new paradigms that are being created and keep open minds.