All Things Vegan!

[Flash]

Lots of spiritual masters (meaning those mastering their being into spiritual awakening) do not eat meat - because the vibrations of the animal who are of a lower development in the evolutionary scale, counteract their own developing vibrations, it has not much to do with killing. In fact, I did ask that questions many times and a few times was answered that it does not matter, what matter are your own development, with or without meat, but without at certain places in the development process may make it easier.

I was also told that the animals are going through karma when eaten by men, for having eaten humans in masses for millions of years. Not the other way around.(having animals suffer may be another thing altogether when it comes to karma).

It is part of evolution on this planet, eating meat.

It is part of evolution on this planet to have to deal with spiritual snobery as well. The ego misconduct that is said to be one of the most difficult to get rid of.

Posted by Akasha (here)

Posted by Anchor (here)
Paul, that video is freaking awesome.

This thread is quite close to the idea of spiritual materialism.

They both deal with situations where new age seekers imagine or delude themselves to have acquired some kind of artefacts of achievement, worn like a badge! (Hence material).

I can stick my leg behind my neck and don't eat meat, therefore I have gained spiritual "rank".

If that is your deal, then surely it is obvious that you are progressing in a hierarchical fashion - superiors and inferiors - this is a service to self trait, not a service to others trait.

It is not material, it is immaterial.

To me spiritual snobbery, or spiritual materialism is a trap of delusion. A pretty obvious one when you have seen yourself in it a few times - I know I have

I agree 100% with forgetting about badges and poses. In the context of the golden rule, they are, to coin your word whilst utilizing it's other meaning, immaterial.

However, it's difficult, impossible even (for me at least) to forget about diet in the context of the golden rule.

Of course the golden rule is also immaterial, but will it adopt the first definition or the second?

[Akasha]

Posted by Flash (here)
…..In fact, I did ask that questions many times and a few times was answered that it does not matter…..

…..I was also told that the animals are going through karma when eaten by men…..

Are you able to share who told you this?

[Flash]

The first one was a master ((mastering her own being) who was using her talent as a spiritual meeting organiser (small groups) and was also a massotherapist i had 28 years ago (she was curing people by her sheer presence and hands imposition before Reiki existed). She also became a friend but died 20 years ago. she is the first one who told me not to worry about meat, explained to me the vibrational work and told me that in cold climates as ours here, we should not be so adamant about meat eating or not.

The second one was another master, who is teaching, not known much (small groups only). He is the one who eplained that it makes it easier to be a vegetarian at certain places in one's development, but was not a necessity and mostly not advised for everyone, depending on the genetic make up (we are always thinking of cold climates here, and body made for these climates). Then, a bit later (few years), he mentioned that the animal kingdom had eaten humans for aons, and karma was playing when we were eating them back.

Two things that are very detrimental to spiritual development: Fear, Under all its aspects, and guilt (it makes one be in the victim/perpetrator vicious circle). Putting guilt on those eating meat is in fact, from my bird view of the human psyche, hampering the human spiritual development.

Awareness offered about animal suffering and vibrations is one thing, accusing meat eaters of being killers is entirely another one, which is playing with manipulation to instill guilt, consciously or not. In my views of course.

We need awareness, not accusations and guilt or anger creating speeches.

Posted by Akasha (here)

Posted by Flash (here)
…..In fact, I did ask that questions many times and a few times was answered that it does not matter…..

…..I was also told that the animals are going through karma when eaten by men…..

Are you able to share who told you this?

You are from Hungary as I read. Hungary is quite temperate. It is easier to live on a veges only diet and your bodies are not made, through générations, to survive in harsh winters when there is about no veges available, as it is the case in lots of Russia, Scandinavia, Middle West in the USA, and Canada. Our veges and fruits here are all imported in winter - have been trucked for thousands of miles, picked not ripe and put chemical to get them ripe upon arrival, often radiated, not counting the pesticides used for cultivating. Fast freeze food is much better in nutrient content. Just to tell you. I cannot even imagine an Inuit trying to be vegetarian, They will end up really sick with lack of proteins. Their diet is entirely based on hunting and fishing and seal meat, etc. No fruits or veges there.

[promezeus]

My favorite Vegan recipe:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=OSrJl1Dskzs

[Akasha]

Posted by Flash (here)
The first one was a master ((mastering her own being) who was using her talent as a spiritual meeting organiser (small groups) and was also a massotherapist i had 28 years ago (she was curing people by her sheer presence and hands imposition before Reiki existed). She also became a friend but died 20 years ago. she is the first one who told me not to worry about meat, explained to me the vibrational work and told me that in cold climates as ours here, we should not be so adamant about meat eating or not.

The second one was another master, who is teaching, not known much (small groups only). He is the one who eplained that it makes it easier to be a vegetarian at certain places in one's development, but was not a necessity and mostly not advised for everyone, depending on the genetic make up (we are always thinking of cold climates here, and body made for these climates). Then, a bit later (few years), he mentioned that the animal kingdom had eaten humans for aons, and karma was playing when we were eating them back.

Two things that are very detrimental to spiritual development: Fear, Under all its aspects, and guilt (it makes one be in the victim/perpetrator vicious circle). Putting guilt on those eating meat is in fact, from my bird view of the human psyche, hampering the human spiritual development.

Awareness offered about animal suffering and vibrations is one thing, accusing meat eaters of being killers is entirely another one, which is playing with manipulation to instill guilt, consciously or not. In my views of course.

We need awareness, not accusations and guilt or anger creating speeches.

Posted by Akasha (here)

Posted by Flash (here)
…..In fact, I did ask that questions many times and a few times was answered that it does not matter…..

…..I was also told that the animals are going through karma when eaten by men…..

Are you able to share who told you this?

You are from Hungary as I read. Hungary is quite temperate. It is easier to live on a veges only diet and your bodies are not made, through générations, to survive in harsh winters when there is about no veges available, as it is the case in lots of Russia, Scandinavia, Middle West in the USA, and Canada. Our veges and fruits here are all imported in winter - have been trucked for thousands of miles, picked not ripe and put chemical to get them ripe upon arrival, often radiated, not counting the pesticides used for cultivating. Fast freeze food is much better in nutrient content. Just to tell you. I cannot even imagine an Inuit trying to be vegetarian, They will end up really sick with lack of proteins. Their diet is entirely based on hunting and fishing and seal meat, etc. No fruits or veges there.

Thanks for sharing that, Flash.

Regarding karma, don't you think that repaying animals' killing of humans with more killing of animals will just result in the wheel continuing to rotate around instead of upwards? Is it possible that the increasing number of people like me are an indication that this karmic debt has been repaid? I don't know - just thinking out loud.

Regarding guilt, ignorance is bliss. Becoming conscious of wrong action is becoming aware of guilt. Doing something about it goes someway to alleviating it. You can't "put guilt" on people if it doesn't already exist. Nothing wrong with bringing something to someone's attention especially if there is an innocent, suffering third party in the equation.
I didn't like being told I was a killer either. My dislike didn't make it a false statement though, no matter how unpleasant it made me feel…..and being repeatedly exposed to that unpleasant truth ultimately made me think differently.

Regarding victims, it's the animals.

I think you're brave to take someone else's word that it's ok to take sentient life, no matter how enlightened that someone appears to be. Personally, I've not met a single one that could convince me yet, regardless of the caliber of their spiritual gymnastics. Gurus who say what people want to hear are always more popular.

I'm actually English although I do live in Hungary. Until the last few years, winters over here could easily drop to minus 20 degrees Celsius. Even so, heated greenhouses would and still do supply pretty much all of Hungary's vegetable needs through the winter months as I'm sure is the case in most if not all of the countries you mentioned too. Of course it's not as ideal as sun-ripened food and the increase in price reflects the overheads of such operations. I appreciate that a proportion of the veggies are going to be imported where it is more economical to do so too, but over here they are a small minority of the winter veggies.

[Flash]

regarding guilt, you have not been raised catholic, the guilt masters lollllllllllllllllllllll

Whatever I write Akasha, you wil turn it around to make sure your point is won. And i will not play that game.

Take what I write as face value, from a good intentioned heart, and that is it. I do not need to be right at any price, all the time. And I am sorry if you seem to need to be right at all time regarding being vegan.

To me, it looks more like a religion when presented that way than something purely sensible. But hey, this is your life, and on the other side of the world, this is mine.

And if you think I have been doing spiritual gymnastic with false gurus, as if I do not experience and work myself on myself, well, up to you to judge others, based on I do not know what criteria. But i certainly do not need to tell you more while answering a question of yours, to be turned into a judgment.

Opening one's heart for its fellow human being seems to be appropriate here. Without it, there is no exchange possible.

[KiwiElf]

Geee does this mean that other animals shouldn't eat each other too? Sorry, it's NATURE.

[Akasha]

Posted by Flash (here)
.....if you think I have been doing spiritual gymnastic with false gurus, as if I do not experience and work myself on myself, well, up to you to judge others, based on I do not know what criteria. But i certainly do not need to tell you more while answering a question of yours, to be turned into a judgment.

Opening one's heart for its fellow human being seems to be appropriate here. Without it, there is no exchange possible.

I don't think you are doing spiritual gymnastics. I think those who you profess to follow are.

To take Yoga Sutras of Patanjali 2.35 as an example:

As a Yogi becomes firmly grounded in non-injury (ahimsa), other people who come near will naturally lose any feelings of hostility.
(ahimsa pratishthayam tat vaira-tyagah)

Those who can interpret that the way your masters have done are performing very elaborate gymnastics, not to mention a great disservice to the original text.

It says very plainly, non-injury. Anyone who can turn that around 180 degrees to mean injury, and then employ all manner of karmic and cosmic shenanigans to support their arguments so that they and their followers can continue killing sentient, suffering beings is abusing their position.

Posted by Flash (here)
Take what I write as face value, from a good intentioned heart,

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, but you already knew that cliche, right?

If you listen to your heart, I guarantee it doesn't want any part in the meat industry.

[Akasha]

Posted by KiwiElf (here)
Geee does this mean that other animals shouldn't eat each other too? Sorry, it's NATURE.

Good point, KiwiElf. I think we should start marking our territory with urine and greeting one another by sniffing each others' backsides too.

[promezeus]

Posted by Akasha (here)

Good point, KiwiElf. I think we should start marking our territory with urine and greeting one another by sniffing each others' backsides too.

I agree akasha. How come animals get to do all that fun stuff ?

My dog laughs when I pee in the toilet.

[Akasha]

PLANT BASED NEWS presents Vegan 2015 - The Film. A summary of this year in veganism and quite a year it's been! :

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=BYzlfPdpAeY

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by promezeus (here)

Posted by Akasha (here)

Good point, KiwiElf. I think we should start marking our territory with urine and greeting one another by sniffing each others' backsides too.

I agree akasha. How come animals get to do all that fun stuff ?

My dog laughs when I pee in the toilet.

You pee in the toilet?!!!!

[giovonni]

così sia ...

[Akasha]

Taking on SeaWorld, Circuses and the fight to free Lolita from the Miami Seaquarium is no small feat. But 12 year old animal activist Dominic Geragi is a 5-year veteran. Having successfully banned the use of bullhooks and electric prods at circuses in Margate, Florida, Dominic continues to speak out against the cruel captivity of animals in aquariums, circuses, zoos and amusement parks. He encouraged other kids to get involved with their communities and hopes to one day live in a world where all animals are free.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=g65vZjLQZgs

[Deborah (ahamkara)]

My son visited me for the holidays. He lives in LA and his current girlfriend is a vegan animal rights activist. After some discussion and some research into the dairy and meat industries, I made the decision to avoid certain animal products. I still eat wild caught fish and hunted animals - if I know the fishermen and the hunters. My decision is simply to NOT support industries that cause unnecessary animal suffering and fear.

We are fortunate to live in a day and time in which our nutritional needs can be met without lots of animal products. i respect each persons choice, but I am surprised at the outright hostility that many people have towards veganism and/or vegetarianism. Maybe as a result of ingesting to much fear and violence themselves??

A happy New Year. May all beings be happy and free.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Flash (here)
Lots of spiritual masters (meaning those mastering their being into spiritual awakening) do not eat meat - because the vibrations of the animal who are of a lower development in the evolutionary scale, counteract their own developing vibrations, it has not much to do with killing. ...

Just to add a similar in one sense, but somewhat different perspective ...

My dad was raised in Telkwa BC, a small town at the convergence of the Telkwa and Bulkley rivers, mid north BC. It is mostly a native community, and my father mostly ended up hanging out and learning from Native people; one of his foster parents I think may have been native as well. At the time, and in this place (Canada, -- long winters), being a vegan was neither practical, nor really desired anyway. At the time in that area most people hunted their own meat (1 moose can easily provide enough meat for a family of 5 for a year), and my dad learned a great many hunting tips from the natives, not the drunken ones you see begging for change, these people still had their connection to Gaia herself and their old ways. My dad was taught that when hunting, it is imperative that you kill the animal instantly, without them knowing your presence. Whether with a rifle or a bow, that means a one shot kill from a distance. The natives (at least what my dad conveyed) said that if the animal dies in fear and distress, the meat will be ruined, and the kill will be deemed improper.

On analysis, I took this to mean that the vibrations of fear in the meat itself, make the meat far less desirable for consumption; both physically and spiritually (meat from an animal that died in great fear and distress apparently doesn't taste as good either). This really makes some sense to me, and unfortunately with western agra practices, most, if not all of our current feed animals live their entire lives in fear and distress.

I support veganism as I think it just an important part of our evolution as meat eating has been (let's face it, it has been required for the survival of our species through the last ice age); at the same time I also do also find a certain "snobbery", as discussed when the view is made personal rather than keeping a broad perspective and respect level and care for all humans.

I don't condemn meat eating, (I am still rather omnivorous), but if I were to start somewhere, it would be to lead people away from anything from big agra to start with - both meat and your garbage GMO vegetables and grains. Go local and go organic. Next step would to go even more local - grow a good garden, and if you want meat, raise and process it yourself; this can be a fair bit of work, and might shift perspectives when you have to say, squeeze pig **** out of intestine tubes so you can make sausages or whatever - disgusting.

At the same time, many of those in northern climates can't easily take on veganism, as prices sometimes become unaffordable; even trying to get fruit to say Svalbard or somewhere in Nunavut is not really feasible in the winter. Oddly enough, the people who live in these climes already process much of their own meat, so they know what it is about and have accepted it -- fine with me.

My issue is with the horribly fear saturated meat 90% of us are buying from the grocery store ... if my interpretation of the natives that gave tips to my father is correct, it appears to me that there are better and far worse ways of utilizing the living creatures, when the become a necessity. Two meals with meat every day of the week is not remotely a necessity for the average desk clerk, pencil pusher, gas attendant, office worker, etc. It has been pushed on us by the industry and maintained, despite a changing landscape ...

Those who live closer to the land, with rugged, demanding lifestyles, in rugged demanding places on earth, that process their own meat - more power to you guys - I don't see the problem here, unlike our (purposely) reliance on the "fear factories" to get our meats.

Rambling thoughts .... and am I really the only one who liked the to****en video? I laughed my ass off!

[Hym]

I loved the To....en video too. Hilarious, given her calm and direct attitude about it all, but I wonder if she is even a vegan or a vegetarian, though I have known some heavy people in both.
I have friends who are hunters and guides who don't ever eat any meat from stores, because they get sick from it. They do have a profound reverence for the animals they eat and they use everything they get from the hunt. I was only worried for them when the wasting disease, akin to mad-cow disease, was found in the animals a little north of here, but they told me that you can tell when an animal has it by the way it moves and the way it looks.
Haven't had meat in 42 years and I'm probably more alive because of it. My reason for not eating meat was it, even when tasty and "healthy', cut into my endurance, speed, power and ultimately my ability to deeply relax.
When someone is an ass about us being vegetarian I tell them that in their case I just might consider a BBQ, if I get to prepare the meat...But really, who wants to eat the hind flank of an ass?

[DeDukshyn]

Hmmm ... BBQ ass flank you say ...

[Hym]

Well, on second thought, Maybe I was wrong about that delicious, well-cooked, perfectly spiced, smoked ass....

[Mike]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Flash (here)
Lots of spiritual masters (meaning those mastering their being into spiritual awakening) do not eat meat - because the vibrations of the animal who are of a lower development in the evolutionary scale, counteract their own developing vibrations, it has not much to do with killing. ...

Just to add a similar in one sense, but somewhat different perspective ...

My dad was raised in Telkwa BC, a small town at the convergence of the Telkwa and Bulkley rivers, mid north BC. It is mostly a native community, and my father mostly ended up hanging out and learning from Native people; one of his foster parents I think may have been native as well. At the time, and in this place (Canada, -- long winters), being a vegan was neither practical, nor really desired anyway. At the time in that area most people hunted their own meat (1 moose can easily provide enough meat for a family of 5 for a year), and my dad learned a great many hunting tips from the natives, not the drunken ones you see begging for change, these people still had their connection to Gaia herself and their old ways. My dad was taught that when hunting, it is imperative that you kill the animal instantly, without them knowing your presence. Whether with a rifle or a bow, that means a one shot kill from a distance. The natives (at least what my dad conveyed) said that if the animal dies in fear and distress, the meat will be ruined, and the kill will be deemed improper.

On analysis, I took this to mean that the vibrations of fear in the meat itself, make the meat far less desirable for consumption; both physically and spiritually (meat from an animal that died in great fear and distress apparently doesn't taste as good either). This really makes some sense to me, and unfortunately with western agra practices, most, if not all of our current feed animals live their entire lives in fear and distress.

I support veganism as I think it just an important part of our evolution as meat eating has been (let's face it, it has been required for the survival of our species through the last ice age); at the same time I also do also find a certain "snobbery", as discussed when the view is made personal rather than keeping a broad perspective and respect level and care for all humans.

I don't condemn meat eating, (I am still rather omnivorous), but if I were to start somewhere, it would be to lead people away from anything from big agra to start with - both meat and your garbage GMO vegetables and grains. Go local and go organic. Next step would to go even more local - grow a good garden, and if you want meat, raise and process it yourself; this can be a fair bit of work, and might shift perspectives when you have to say, squeeze pig **** out of intestine tubes so you can make sausages or whatever - disgusting.

At the same time, many of those in northern climates can't easily take on veganism, as prices sometimes become unaffordable; even trying to get fruit to say Svalbard or somewhere in Nunavut is not really feasible in the winter. Oddly enough, the people who live in these climes already process much of their own meat, so they know what it is about and have accepted it -- fine with me.

My issue is with the horribly fear saturated meat 90% of us are buying from the grocery store ... if my interpretation of the natives that gave tips to my father is correct, it appears to me that there are better and far worse ways of utilizing the living creatures, when the become a necessity. Two meals with meat every day of the week is not remotely a necessity for the average desk clerk, pencil pusher, gas attendant, office worker, etc. It has been pushed on us by the industry and maintained, despite a changing landscape ...

Those who live closer to the land, with rugged, demanding lifestyles, in rugged demanding places on earth, that process their own meat - more power to you guys - I don't see the problem here, unlike our (purposely) reliance on the "fear factories" to get our meats.

Rambling thoughts .... and am I really the only one who liked the to****en video? I laughed my ass off!

Hey great post here Duk!

One of the more balanced and realistic takes on this topic ive read in some time.

[Akasha]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Flash (here)
Lots of spiritual masters (meaning those mastering their being into spiritual awakening) do not eat meat - because the vibrations of the animal who are of a lower development in the evolutionary scale, counteract their own developing vibrations, it has not much to do with killing. ...

Just to add a similar in one sense, but somewhat different perspective ...

My dad was raised in Telkwa BC, a small town at the convergence of the Telkwa and Bulkley rivers, mid north BC. It is mostly a native community, and my father mostly ended up hanging out and learning from Native people; one of his foster parents I think may have been native as well. At the time, and in this place (Canada, -- long winters), being a vegan was neither practical, nor really desired anyway. At the time in that area most people hunted their own meat (1 moose can easily provide enough meat for a family of 5 for a year), and my dad learned a great many hunting tips from the natives, not the drunken ones you see begging for change, these people still had their connection to Gaia herself and their old ways. My dad was taught that when hunting, it is imperative that you kill the animal instantly, without them knowing your presence. Whether with a rifle or a bow, that means a one shot kill from a distance. The natives (at least what my dad conveyed) said that if the animal dies in fear and distress, the meat will be ruined, and the kill will be deemed improper.

On analysis, I took this to mean that the vibrations of fear in the meat itself, make the meat far less desirable for consumption; both physically and spiritually (meat from an animal that died in great fear and distress apparently doesn't taste as good either). This really makes some sense to me, and unfortunately with western agra practices, most, if not all of our current feed animals live their entire lives in fear and distress.

I support veganism as I think it just an important part of our evolution as meat eating has been (let's face it, it has been required for the survival of our species through the last ice age); at the same time I also do also find a certain "snobbery", as discussed when the view is made personal rather than keeping a broad perspective and respect level and care for all humans.

I don't condemn meat eating, (I am still rather omnivorous), but if I were to start somewhere, it would be to lead people away from anything from big agra to start with - both meat and your garbage GMO vegetables and grains. Go local and go organic. Next step would to go even more local - grow a good garden, and if you want meat, raise and process it yourself; this can be a fair bit of work, and might shift perspectives when you have to say, squeeze pig **** out of intestine tubes so you can make sausages or whatever - disgusting.

At the same time, many of those in northern climates can't easily take on veganism, as prices sometimes become unaffordable; even trying to get fruit to say Svalbard or somewhere in Nunavut is not really feasible in the winter. Oddly enough, the people who live in these climes already process much of their own meat, so they know what it is about and have accepted it -- fine with me.

My issue is with the horribly fear saturated meat 90% of us are buying from the grocery store ... if my interpretation of the natives that gave tips to my father is correct, it appears to me that there are better and far worse ways of utilizing the living creatures, when the become a necessity. Two meals with meat every day of the week is not remotely a necessity for the average desk clerk, pencil pusher, gas attendant, office worker, etc. It has been pushed on us by the industry and maintained, despite a changing landscape ...

Those who live closer to the land, with rugged, demanding lifestyles, in rugged demanding places on earth, that process their own meat - more power to you guys - I don't see the problem here, unlike our (purposely) reliance on the "fear factories" to get our meats.

Rambling thoughts .... and am I really the only one who liked the to****en video? I laughed my ass off!

Granted, in the grand scheme of things, the problem is not hunting (unless you're the hunted), it's animal agriculture. Vegan activist, Will Tuttle elaborates:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=PoTAKFIqNdE