Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

[Wide-Eyed]

Posted by Bluegreen (here)
Newbies and veterans alike may get a chuckle or a gasp (or both) from ex-Scientologist Karen de la Carriere's massive documentation of Scientology financial shenanigans on the website Operation Clambake. To think that the IRS would be "unaware" of this defies credulity ie inurement etc. I don't know, I don't understand it. Prominent ex Arnie Lerma may be lurking and could possibly reveal more ...

Offered of course
"For Entertainment Purposes Only"


Scientology SCAM "IAS" FRAUD stockpiling $$$ & MONEY
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=215741

http://sc-i-r-s-ology.freiescientolo...ne/index.html- a definite newbie here in regards to LRH but check Cuitahiluac's link posted it details Government take over and IRS handy work on COS .

[cuitlahuac]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
-------

The Organization came later, after Hubbard was inundated with questions and requests for further information. He founded scientology (literally: "the science of knowing how to know") as protection from the American Medical Association, who wanted to hang Hubbard from the highest tree for "practicing psychotherapy without a license".

...

Hubbard (LRH) was clearly a flawed man -- and many great people are. I am not qualified to judge him as a person or as a family man: only assess his legacy. My consideration of his legacy does not include the Church itself, which grew to became a huge aberration.

...

I'll pause here, and welcome all and any questions. I'll undertake to answer them all as best I can. I can maybe help interpret some (but not all!) of the story that Jim is trying to recount, and will do my best, bearing in mind that any interpretation of Jim's experience may not be fully correct. (I do not know him personally, but feel -- as do many others -- that he's trying to tell us something important. Don't throw away the mud without sifting it through for diamonds first.)

Thanks a lot Bill.

I would like to ask first, who is "Jim" and what he's trying to recount?

Second, of course, Hubbard's legacy is the technology, but administration and ethics technology are its protectors. If the "Organization" became to be a "huge aberration" is explained by the fact that any kind of organization in the hands of criminals (the NWO takeover team now controlling Church of Scientology) will be a "huge aberration". A comparison could be: a gun is pro survival in the hands of well trained policeman educated to protect the people. A gun in the hands of a thieve is a most dangerous thing.

And third. The organization came latter. Of course, in the 1950's it was to handle the big amount of people demanding Dianetics. That organization was attacked and destroyed by the then NWO, AMA, APA and WFMH (World Federation of Mental Health) and their puppet master banking elites.

The next organization was that of Scientology, including the Sea Organization (with its own track of "past lives"). According to Hubbard, this Scientology organization has its own "past live" indicating that it was furnished from an organization that was in control of a whole galaxy. I think those principles will never be a "huge aberration".

Edit: If this "galaxy administrative technology" was finally taken by the enemy, it indicates and suggests what kind of "enemy" really took over Scientology in 1982.

Thanks for the thread.

[cuitlahuac]

Posted by WEAREONE (here)

80 trillion years ago there was a group of people call the peace bringers ... they were so powerful that everywhere they went they brought peace .. There was another group that were war mongers ... and they were a bit of trouble but the peace bringers thought that could train them and maybe they would change to the better ... but these war mongers decided to infiltrate and steal the tech and use is to try to take over the system ... and many wars happened


We are on a prison planet ... it took them billions of years to create this ... NO ONE ESCAPES from a prison planet ... NO ONE until Siddhartha Gautama Buddha did 2500 years ago ... any religion that tells you that you have no power and only god has power and any other power is the devil will never get you off this planet
it takes a being with a lot of power to get off this planet ... and giving all your power to a god that someone says exists isn't going to get you off the planet.

these are control religions ... I went back to see Christ on the Cross .. and started running the session myself using the class 8 auditor and her meter to do it.

I got back there ... Christ looked like he was in a very lot of pain ... I decided to go inside his body and see what was happening and a force a very big force was hitting me when I was in his body .. it was too much and I could not stay inside the body .. I got out and I saw a huge oval of gold light in front of him ... I thought he was making it .... I followed the light into the sky and it was a UFO ... and that UFO was hitting Christ with some kind of beam ... and it was flooding the crowd with pictures to create a future dark age ... I yelled ... it was a trick ... it was a trick ... it was a trick ...


by the way ... the force fields that trapped us to this planet have been removed ... by the andromedians . ... if you die this time you can go home ... where ;ever that was .... so future?? ... i am staying here ... this place will be the new beginning for the entire universe and when it is safe for them to come down they will teach us and we will be new light of this universe ... why because we were the gods they sent here and to them we are still looked at as royalty and they are trying to free us

I want to thank this porst by WEAREONE. This quotes in red just made me remember or live again the athmosphere of 1979 when I had 2 years in Scientology. There was a clear sense of team effort that we were now aware of who we were, even if we didn't know all of our past. We were aware of the way ahead, the restoration of our capabilities to create good and aesthetic universes. And we knew we were immortal spiritual beings and that Earth was the place to heal this universe.

The executive directors (Operating Thetans, that is, spiritual beings able to operate in the physical universe without the need of a body) spoke constantly of this kind of things, even to "green" (new) public. They told us that there was also other kind of public (unseen spiritual beings) listening to their conferences.

Thanks Jimini.

Edit: I don't know if its true what Jimmini tells, but I know that this is the kind of phenomena people do in auditing (Scientology counseling or done "solo").

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by cuitlahuac (here)

I would like to ask first, who is "Jim" and what he's trying to recount?

Jim is jiminii, an Avalon member who had a small amount of scientology experience, reported a large number of major, intuitive perceptions, and (and I don't mean this in any way unkindly) just wasn't a very effective or clear communicator in text form.

One of the biggest impediments that many people with scientology experience have — whether it's a lot or a little — is the seeming inability to communicate very well in plain English. It's really a huge problem, and it's often a little hard for me to understand. Many of them have simply spent way too much time only talking with people with similar experiences. The result usually pushes others away.

One of the FIRST benefits of any kind of personal development process, whatever it is, should be being able to put yourself in the other person's shoes. Talking AT people, using language they're unlikely to understand, just doesn't work.

That's a useful note, maybe, for anyone posting on this thread. Please don't use terms that aren't plain English!

There are ALWAYS easy ways to explain or present interesting metaphysical concepts, especially to members with the level of spiritual awareness that most forum members already have. Use the language THEY already know... not your own, which they may not.

[Important, also (see the post immediately above): calling 'scientology directors' 'Operating Thetans' simply isn't true — nowhere remotely close. These days, they're closed-minded, cruel, obsessed, unintelligent, extremely controlling, and even more unaware. Even back in the late 1970s, that was hardly true... or else the 1982 final takeover, the components of which were in place long prior, wouldn't have happened. It'd have been spotted and handled way earlier. But the entire organization was taken down, and thousands of good people just jumped ship. All of those people were still on their journey... no-one had at that point 'arrived' anywhere at all.]

[cuitlahuac]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

[Important, also (see the post immediately above): calling 'scientology directors' 'Operating Thetans' simply isn't true — nowhere remotely close. These days, they're closed-minded, cruel, obsessed, unintelligent, extremely controlling, and even more unaware. Even back in the late 1970s, that was hardly true... or else the 1982 final takeover, the components of which were in place long prior, wouldn't have happened. It'd have been spotted and handled way earlier. But the entire organization was taken down, and thousands of good people just jumped ship. All of those people were still on their journey... no-one had at that point 'arrived' anywhere at all.]

Thanks Bill for the clarifications. Of course, it's very important in Scientology and in fact the data is in all Scn books that technical terms must be defined.

And your clarification on the OT directors is very pertinent. In 1979, the directors of mexican orgs were OTs (Operating Thetans, spiritual beings able to operate in the physical universe without the need of a body). Carlos González (which I knew) was OT VII (at that time OT VII, 'boosting intention' was done prior to OT III, the wall of fire) and there was the Garcías, Ricardo and his brother, also OTs. There was Sergio Lan also OT. They had gone OT in the USA in the early 70's to oppen orgs in mexico in the mid 70's. None turned out to be anti social as far as I know. But you are right, the core of the anti social beings and those placed in position (sleepers) prior to the takeover in 1982 were close to Hubbard, like Norman Starkey for example. In fact, prior to the takeover in Mexico, these OT Executive Directors were sistematically taken down and excommunicated, to be replaced by people directly from the street or clearly psychopathic. Since then, the independence of the mexican orgs was replaced by the dictators from International Management.

Edit: In the early 80's, the takeover was not clearly spotted but was sure felt by the Mexican OT Directors and by everybody. There was a sense of impending doom in all Scientology events in México. You could see that in the face of the Executive Directors (EDs). Marie Sue (Hubbard's wife) was put in jail, and after 1982, there was a letter sent to mexican OTs (in spanish) explaining them that Hubbard was dead and the government of the USA and his "handlers" had taken Scientology. I was in Central Sea Org org (Continental Liaison Office CLO) in 1983 in Mexico city and saw the letter, but I was not permitted to read it by my senior (sleeper takeover teams), even though I was in charge of filling them.

In 1982, the mexican OTs knew that there was a plan by the "marcabians" (extraterrestrial civilization enslaving this planet) to come here and take the planet over starting with Scientology. There was a frantic effort then to send lots of people to get trained as auditors of Scientology (many financed by Marta Igareda). When the dust settled, the world had changed to what it is today.

Mexican orgs in late 70's:

ODD (Organización de Dianética) Director Carlos González OT VII
ITD (Instituto Tecnológico de Dianética) Director Sergio Lán, OT
ACD (Asociación Cultural Dianética) Director Roberto García
IFAs (Instituto de Filosofía Aplicada) Director Ricardo Garcia OT.

New Edit: In the late 70's, the expansion of Scientology in Latin America surpassed that of the USA under the leadership of Ricardo García. After 1982 (when the OT EDs were taken down, Scn shrinked even today to few cities, Mexico, Argentina and Venezuela.

[cuitlahuac]

My take on Jiminii's weather modification "abilities".

Jiminii states earlier that the 7 year drought in the USA was a result of his postulate (consideration or thought) that it would be nice if there were very sunny days, so that he could sell lots of icecreams.

Then Jiminii states that the drought ended when he remembered and de-activated that consideration. In other words, he as-issed it (as-iss, to look at something, in this case a consideration, exactly as it is in which moment the thing or consideration disappears).

First, we need to know what a consideration or postulate is: "POSTULATE, in Scn the word postulate means to cause a thinkingness or consideration. It is a specially applied word and is defined as causative thinkingness. (Fundamentals of Thought, p. 71)". Jiminii made a postulate, a causative thinking and the effectiveness of those postulates depend also in the horse power of the person as a spiritual being.

Second, there are several agencies working on the climate of the USA. One of them is the shadow government, who uses weather modification technology as a weapon.

Third, I read (probably in the Tom Bearden webpage) that ETs are also controlling the weather of the USA. They use an energy called "Orgon" to keep great parts of the USA as deserts. Otherwise, those areas would be green.

Now, my take is that Jiminii made his postulate "I want sunny days so that I can sell lots of my icecreams." Then the shadow US government and the ETs controlling the weather could have find that Jiminii's postulate was more powerful than their technologies. They could have said: "Gee!! This guy is singlehandedly creating a drought on most of the USA..." and their bosses could have said: "well, leave that guy alone and go on with that as long as he doesn't interfere with our desertification agenda"...

So, after 7 years Jiminii learns that CoS OTs are postulating "rain" in California, and Jim joins them, but Jim's postulates for "rain" doesn't work because, according to Scientology, his previous postulate "sunny days" is still "working" and is senior to latter postulates (making rain). Now Jiminii remembers the datum that you have to cancel a previous postulate opposing a new one, otherwise your postulates are not going to work and are going to become a mess.

So, Jiminii finds and cancels his "sunny days" postulate and "THE HEAVENS POUR DOWN...." This was probably compounded with the efforts of many people to make it rain in California, including the CoS OTs.

Maybe the guys in the shadow US government controlling the weather and the "desertification agenda" ETs woke up in shock, wondering "what happened"! and some might have been fired or severely punished...

Anyway, that's my take on Jiminii's weather modification "abilities". I only want to pinpoint the "mechanics" of what and who really controls the weather, including Jiminii's powerful postulates...

My earnest advice to Jiminii is that he learns Scientology Ethics technology fast, in order for him to use his postulate horsepower wisely and so become more able at that. Otherwise, if he uses it unwisely or harmfully, he could loose his capabilities.



Edit: We need to protect Jiminii, the US shadow government is looking for people to train in their CIA "super-soldier" booth camp programs.

Additional edit: In 1978, there were lots of talk on mexican OTs creating "sunny days", so that the Dianetica events went down smoothly. And there were no droughts afterwards...





Last edit to include post:

Posted by jiminii
right that is the way to do it ,... people who are too serious can't effect anything ... there is too much effort ... you know they want me to prove the weather ,.. and if I do ,.. it would be like every time I did before.... as soon as you do it ... they will say it was going to happen anyway ... but when the rain stopped between the two lights the girl shut up ... she couldn't say anything after that ,.. but those are rare .. you almost have to be in such a jokingly light mood because the thoughts that work are the light ones ... just like this other post of a baby making weather .. that baby has no thought that it can't be done ,.. no counter intention ,.,. just puts it there .. but people with a lot of losses will not believe it ... just the fact that you doubt it and disbelieve it alone will not make it happen

you have to read the book

I put up a thought in Los angeles to make no rain and keep it hot so I could sell ice cream on my ice cream truck ,and a few years later I wasn't even doing the ice cream truck .. and maybe it is about 1978 and they have news saying they've had a 7 year drought and they will allocating all the water in Los Angeles and they will start some government program to manage the water ... I suddenly thought "OMG ... I stopped the rain" I put out my thoughts to cancel the stop ." ... the rain started up and it was going until around january ... and I was living with an OT 2 [OT 2: Confidential level 2 of the Scientology advanced levels.]... and I told him "we have enough rain I am going to stop it now"
he said "no we still need more ... " and he is comparing the rain to mid east not same like the Los angeles being in a desert "
I said "no I am stopping the rain tonight"
well I don't have the label of being an OT because they never let me attest to it . so he assumes I have no power at all.
he says "me and a bunch of ot's are postulating rain"
I said "it will stop tonight"
the weather forecast was heavy rain that night
that night the rain shifted and missed Los angeles completely
now this OT 2 complained for the next two weeks so I thought "ok you want to see rain?"
I started postulating rain ... no rain ... I pushed it harder ... no rain ... then harder .. no rain ... so I cogged " oh I forget to cancel the stop the rain postulate"
I canceled the stop and the rain came down and all of orange county is flooded the santa monica peers and coast lines are breaking up and all the land is falling on the the highway there ... all the houses in the hollywood hills are coming down the mountain .... and the canyons too ... and I tried to stop it and it only made it worse and whipped up the winds so hard I thought it too dangerous to try to sop it
so I said "just let it ride out .... don't put any more postulates there "
this ot 2 refused to talk to me about weather ever again


jim

Padmé: So let me get this clear, you caused hot weather for your own financial gain, then irresponsibly forgot you had, then messed up the process and so there were greater consequences for quite a while...

look ... I am learning this stuff just like anyone else ... it is same like inelia with no experience

I picked weather because it was going to rain and I was on the road with no place to sleep

and I was just curious why the chant worked
until it stopped the rain between two lights ,., so then I wanted to know how that happened ,,, I knew it couldn't be a chant ... then i read the book and I practiced .. I never expected it would continue to stay hot ... especially 7 years .... and this body doesn't believe it anyway ,,,, so 7 years later I flip on the TV channel .. and there is a 7 year droubt ,, ,,, I tried to start the rain again
it wouldn't start ... again and again ...then I realized that it must have been started when I was on the ice cream truck ... so I cancel that thought and the rain started
this body gets surprised every time ... because I put out thoughts they happen ... this body doesn't believe it .. so I drop it .. but the thought didn't drop until I looked on the TV

now this is how thoughts work ... put up a thought you want rain .. and it works the same way for everyone ... so then we get rain .. now you want to stop the rain.. the second thought goes up against the first thought. and locks because they ar opposing thoughts ... no matter what you do you can't make the second thought work until you stop the first thought ...

but ... to stop the first thought you have to look at the exact time that you created the thought to make it vanish
some people need a meter to go back to the exact thought to make it vanish ,,, I don't ... I just look

so are you interested in making money?
not with weather ...
and you got some thought there that is stopping all your money and it won't go away ,.,
what do you do?
some people need a meter to go locate the thought that is stopping them from having money

do you want a job?
go back to the thoughts that are stopping you from getting a job

this is why everyone is having so much trouble living on this planet ,.. the cabal sets everything up to make everyone lose and get in lowered conditions and all these thoughts of yours start happening and next you know you are broke .. and no way out of it ... if you knew how to handle your thoughts you can make your life better

and if I can make the weather go the way I want ... and no one else changes it ,... then they don't believe they can change it ... so the weather will follow me ... if more people took more responsibility for the weather and learned how to manage like the buddhas in thailand .. you would get a more balance game to play .. the fact that you can't change the weather puts you in apathy about doing anything about the weather
get up to where you are cause over it .. and then we would probably be able to heat up HAARP enough to break it. These people are taking aiien tech and using it to hurt us and create famine ... if you had the ability to control the weather ... they wouldn't be able to do this
I am keeping the weather going fine over here ... where I can see what it is doing not somewhere else where I can't see it ... and may cause damage ... you have a responsibility to handle your own area just like I do .. if I were able to see outside this body .. I could handle it all .. but I don't, so maybe some others should get in there and learn it and take some responsibility themselves

jim

[cuitlahuac]

Posted by Tangri (here)
I know you secret admire of LRD Bill, mostly because of the his tech,/tools. It would be a disaster if only you started this subject, luckily Jim showed up.

I received 220 in patient, 600 out patient mental Institution's statistic for last week in my request.

-50 people in treatment patients claim they are hearing voices from Andromeda and Zeticuli galaxy 14 of them claiming they are the Mehdi( (Mesaya).

- 26 of them carry a Gene which provides supernatural power.

-10 of them in suicidal watch because of the their self exorcism.

-72 of them tried exorcism on their family member

-3 of them tried exorcism on random people .

Interesting part is out patient category :

32 of them was forensic requested for legal Incompetence 27 of them were found competent which leads them to the judicial system for abusing naive people for financial gain. This is only one week admission you guess the rest.

Psychiatry is pseudo science.

That not from critics of psychiatry but from the very psychiatrist that organized the creation of psychiatry's "diagnostic tool" the DSM 4.



“There are no objective tests in psychiatry, no X-ray, laboratory, or exam finding that says definitively that someone does or does not have a mental disorder.”
—Allen Frances, Former DSM-IV Task Force Chairman

Then Tangri, shall we put all psychiatrists into a institution? Shall you be included too? Under what category? "believing in psychiatric pseudo scientific dogmas?"

[cuitlahuac]

Posted by jonsnow (here)
Scientology is a body of beliefs and related practices created by American science fiction author L. Ron Hubbard, who lived from 1911 until 1986

In 1986, Hubbard died after years in hiding. David Miscavige emerged as leader of Church of Scientology, while many others practice Scientology independently

Is Scientology good or bad ?

Universities are not teaching 21st century science. Most prestigious universities are 70 years behind schedule. Max Plank pinpointed the next area of research in physics in the 30's of last century. That area of research was consciousness. We can see this in his latest quotes like the one below:

I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.

- Max Plank, as quoted in The Observer (25 January 1931)

So far, only L. Ronald Hubbard has done research on the field of consciousness creating matter and universes. Many of it is contained in the Philadelphia Doctorate Course taped lectures.

It´s time to take Universities out of the dark ages of "matter is God" and into the "consciousness creates matter" paradigm. Scientology as developed by L. Ronald Hubbard is not only the continuation of research in Quantum Mechanics, as delineated by Max Plank, but is where science and spirituality meet, the science of a Golden Age.

[cuitlahuac]

Very well explained. Thanks a lot.

Quote:
Bill Ryan;

'Clear' is a technical term meaning (as a very loose summary) that you don't have any more engrams. See the 'Dianetics Picture Book', reposted below, for details. Hubbard's description in his early 1950 book 'Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health' was too optimistic in practice, though he was definitely aware of and striving for something real. 'Clear' does absolutely NOT mean that you're a perfect human being, or are not affected by other things.

Erasing all your engrams is a very valuable threshold to cross. But it's just a step along the way. It's not at all the end of the road. There's a LOT else in terms of unfinished business, accumulated through the millennia, that can drag one down and affect attitudes, beliefs, goals, behavior, your body, and just about everything else.

http://projectavalon.net/Dianetics_Picture_Book.pdf


For various reasons too complex to go into here, after reaching 'Clear' as a threshold, one can then audit oneself rather than being dependent on another person to audit you. Although it's still nice, and sometimes easler, to talk to another person when figuring things out! But after 'Clear', 'solo auditing' becomes possible, and is encouraged.

One of the reasons why 'Clear' is not the end of the personal development road is that Planet Earth is absolutely crawling with entities of various kinds which stick to our souls and our bodies -- either directly, or attached at a kind of influencing distance. (All unsavory, but true.) There are two remedies for this:

1. Bolster ourselves up so that we are not affected by these external influences (and they are external, inasmuch as they are not within ourselves as beings).
2. Handle and free the entities that are focused on ourselves. (And, if we wish, we can free the entities that are focused on others. This is a kind of part of the Bodhisattva function. If we can help to liberate others, then some people choose to do so.)

Some people maintain that the entity situation on the planet isn't real, and hold a viewpoint of denial about this entire edifice of stuff -- the reality of which any shaman worth their salt over the last several thousand years knows a great deal about, and can confirm. The Buddhists know all about it, too: they call them "Angry Ghosts". It's a good term.

But if someone does deny it, the entities don't care. (Or in some cases, they'll be delighted!) They'll go after you anyway -- especially if you're trying to change things on this planet, and help out a little. Hundreds of Avalonians know this well.

Hubbard himself spent quite a number of years chasing down the subject of 'Clear' - and famously made one or two wrong turns, and announcements that were too premature -- but after that was all straightened out, he discovered there was a lot more 'on the other side'.

Arguably, that was when his personality really started to change -- and it did, sometime in the 1960s. Now aware of what he was really up against (think of all the legions of Angry Ghosts in existence, and there are a lot of those!), he went into battle mode and took the 'Church' with him.

And, my personal opinion is that he made some bad decisions, and didn't handle it very well. But his research continued, and -- as I've said elsewhere, pretty much -- tens of thousands of others have benefited hugely because he was willing to do the trial-and-error experimental work on himself.
End Quote:

[cuitlahuac]

To: Bill Ryan,

Re: Copyrighted quote:

Bill, this texts below has copyright. I want to ask you if I can be given permission to post it, in the forums and Fb forums I participate, under the subject of Scientology.

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Many thanks, and this is an important question. The issue of 'Clear' is easily (and forgivably) misunderstood.

'Clear' is a technical term meaning (as a very loose summary) that you don't have any more engrams. See the 'Dianetics Picture Book', reposted below, for details. Hubbard's description in his early 1950 book 'Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health' was too optimistic in practice, though he was definitely aware of and striving for something real. 'Clear' does absolutely NOT mean that you're a perfect human being, or are not affected by other things.

Erasing all your engrams is a very valuable threshold to cross. But it's just a step along the way. It's not at all the end of the road. There's a LOT else in terms of unfinished business, accumulated through the millennia, that can drag one down and affect attitudes, beliefs, goals, behavior, your body, and just about everything else.

http://projectavalon.net/Dianetics_Picture_Book.pdf


For various reasons too complex to go into here, after reaching 'Clear' as a threshold, one can then audit oneself rather than being dependent on another person to audit you. Although it's still nice, and sometimes easler, to talk to another person when figuring things out! But after 'Clear', 'solo auditing' becomes possible, and is encouraged.

One of the reasons why 'Clear' is not the end of the personal development road is that Planet Earth is absolutely crawling with entities of various kinds which stick to our souls and our bodies -- either directly, or attached at a kind of influencing distance. (All unsavory, but true.) There are two remedies for this:

1. Bolster ourselves up so that we are not affected by these external influences (and they are external, inasmuch as they are not within ourselves as beings).
2. Handle and free the entities that are focused on ourselves. (And, if we wish, we can free the entities that are focused on others. This is a kind of part of the Bodhisattva function. If we can help to liberate others, then some people choose to do so.)

Some people maintain that the entity situation on the planet isn't real, and hold a viewpoint of denial about this entire edifice of stuff -- the reality of which any shaman worth their salt over the last several thousand years knows a great deal about, and can confirm. The Buddhists know all about it, too: they call them "Angry Ghosts". It's a good term.

But if someone does deny it, the entities don't care. (Or in some cases, they'll be delighted!) They'll go after you anyway -- especially if you're trying to change things on this planet, and help out a little. Hundreds of Avalonians know this well.

Hubbard himself spent quite a number of years chasing down the subject of 'Clear' - and famously made one or two wrong turns, and announcements that were too premature -- but after that was all straightened out, he discovered there was a lot more 'on the other side'.

Arguably, that was when his personality really started to change -- and it did, sometime in the 1960s. Now aware of what he was really up against (think of all the legions of Angry Ghosts in existence, and there are a lot of those!), he went into battle mode and took the 'Church' with him.

And, my personal opinion is that he made some bad decisions, and didn't handle it very well. But his research continued, and -- as I've said elsewhere, pretty much -- tens of thousands of others have benefited hugely because he was willing to do the trial-and-error experimental work on himself.

[Tangri]

Posted by cuitlahuac (here)

Posted by Tangri (here)
I know you secret admire of LRD Bill, mostly because of the his tech,/tools. It would be a disaster if only you started this subject, luckily Jim showed up.

I received 220 in patient, 600 out patient mental Institution's statistic for last week in my request.

-50 people in treatment patients claim they are hearing voices from Andromeda and Zeticuli galaxy 14 of them claiming they are the Mehdi( (Mesaya).

- 26 of them carry a Gene which provides supernatural power.

-10 of them in suicidal watch because of the their self exorcism.

-72 of them tried exorcism on their family member

-3 of them tried exorcism on random people .

Interesting part is out patient category :

32 of them was forensic requested for legal Incompetence 27 of them were found competent which leads them to the judicial system for abusing naive people for financial gain. This is only one week admission you guess the rest.

Psychiatry is pseudo science.

That not from critics of psychiatry but from the very psychiatrist that organized the creation of psychiatry's "diagnostic tool" the DSM 4.



“There are no objective tests in psychiatry, no X-ray, laboratory, or exam finding that says definitively that someone does or does not have a mental disorder.”
—Allen Frances, Former DSM-IV Task Force Chairman

Then Tangri, shall we put all psychiatrists into a institution? Shall you be included too? Under what category? "believing in psychiatric pseudo scientific dogmas?"

I don’t normally comment on crank science that finds its way into my Inbox, but this evening I got a really good laugh. but lost interest writing on santilli's telescope at another thread, which is sad.

I want to point out that senile Demantia does not need DSM's categorised classification.

Maybe , my post needs intellectual, conceptual abilities to comprehend.

"Interesting part is out patient category :

32 of them was forensic requested for legal Incompetence 27 of them were found competent which leads them to the judicial system for abusing naive people for financial gain. This is only one week admission you guess the rest"


My Purpose to put that data out was, to show how charlatan healers try to use of psychiatric umbrella hoping to have an intellectual disability diagnosis for themselves to avoid a criminal trail. 27 of them found healthy and send back to court. 5 of them were diagnosed as an intellectual disability person which they avoid to be criminally charged.

You said "Then Tangri, shall we put all psychiatrists into a institution? Shall you be included too? Under what category? "believing in psychiatric pseudo scientific dogmas?"

Do I sense an insult in your statement or it is just my misunderstanding here?

Did I use OTlll , OTlV as a ridiculed icon to provoke you?

I am not a random people for your exorcism practise.

Even though Scientology using science word in their disguised agenda they are only immune for criminal charges because of religious acts.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by cuitlahuac (here)

Bill, this texts below has copyright. I want to ask you if I can be given permission to post it, in the forums and Fb forums I participate, under the subject of Scientology.

Thanks for asking! But it's not my permission to give.

As I wrote here,

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

I was the anonymous co-spearhead of the small handful of people that spent 6 months, 24/7, doing all that ourselves, back in 2004.

We digitized everything, and released it all on the net. I created and ran the temporary website — long since taken down by Church of Scientology lawyers — but by the time it was all forcibly closed down, the genie was out of the bottle for good.

So, this is all in the public domain now, and there's nothing the 'Church' can do about it.

Here's a link to post freely elsewhere:

http://ronsorg.org/resources/Sciento...cture_Book.pdf

[cuitlahuac]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Thanks for asking! But it's not my permission to give.

Oh. I was meaning your text on "entities". Because at the bottom in the forum, it reads: "All Content Copyright © Project Avalon 2011".

One of the reasons why 'Clear' is not the end of the personal development road is that Planet Earth is absolutely crawling with entities of various kinds which stick to our souls and our bodies -- either directly, or attached at a kind of influencing distance. (All unsavory, but true.) There are two remedies for this:

1. Bolster ourselves up so that we are not affected by these external influences (and they are external, inasmuch as they are not within ourselves as beings).
2. Handle and free the entities that are focused on ourselves. (And, if we wish, we can free the entities that are focused on others. This is a kind of part of the Bodhisattva function. If we can help to liberate others, then some people choose to do so.)


Some people maintain that the entity situation on the planet isn't real, and hold a viewpoint of denial about this entire edifice of stuff -- the reality of which any shaman worth their salt over the last several thousand years knows a great deal about, and can confirm. The Buddhists know all about it, too: they call them "Angry Ghosts". It's a good term.

But if someone does deny it, the entities don't care. (Or in some cases, they'll be delighted!) They'll go after you anyway -- especially if you're trying to change things on this planet, and help out a little. Hundreds of Avalonians know this well.

Hubbard himself spent quite a number of years chasing down the subject of 'Clear' - and famously made one or two wrong turns, and announcements that were too premature -- but after that was all straightened out, he discovered there was a lot more 'on the other side'.

Arguably, that was when his personality really started to change -- and it did, sometime in the 1960s. Now aware of what he was really up against (think of all the legions of Angry Ghosts in existence, and there are a lot of those!), he went into battle mode and took the 'Church' with him.

And, my personal opinion is that he made some bad decisions, and didn't handle it very well. But his research continued, and -- as I've said elsewhere, pretty much -- tens of thousands of others have benefited hugely because he was willing to do the trial-and-error experimental work on himself.

[cuitlahuac]

Posted by Tangri (here)
I don’t normally comment on crank science that finds its way into my Inbox, but this evening I got a really good laugh. but lost interest writing on santilli's telescope at another thread, which is sad.

I want to point out that senile Demantia does not need DSM's categorised classification.

Maybe , my post needs intellectual, conceptual abilities to comprehend.

"Interesting part is out patient category :

32 of them was forensic requested for legal Incompetence 27 of them were found competent which leads them to the judicial system for abusing naive people for financial gain. This is only one week admission you guess the rest"


My Purpose to put that data out was, to show how charlatan healers try to use of psychiatric umbrella hoping to have an intellectual disability diagnosis for themselves to avoid a criminal trail. 27 of them found healthy and send back to court. 5 of them were diagnosed as an intellectual disability person which they avoid to be criminally charged.

You said "Then Tangri, shall we put all psychiatrists into a institution? Shall you be included too? Under what category? "believing in psychiatric pseudo scientific dogmas?"

Do I sense an insult in your statement or it is just my misunderstanding here?

Did I use OTlll , OTlV as a ridiculed icon to provoke you?

I am not a random people for your exorcism practise.

Even though Scientology using science word in their disguised agenda they are only immune for criminal charges because of religious acts.

I agree. Senile Dementia, having a known "etiology" (cause) is thankfully the territory of neurology, not psychiatry.

I have to acknowledge I didn't understand the post.

Yes, I'm sorry I had included insult because I misunderstood there was insult against Avalon members.

If it all is a misunderstanding, can we clarify it?

Note: Science and religion are "fundamentally" not at odds. Newton's "Philosophia Naturalis, Principia Mathematica" is science and religion.

[lightwalker]

I went clear back in the 80's. They found my phone number a few years ago and called and pestered me for a while. They had all my files from when I lived in Hawaii and read back some of my "success stories". They even gave me my clear number. I never wrote it down so I cannot remember it.

Since they keep everything on file I would just write back to them that I no longer wished to be contacted by them and also had no money. If they called me I asked for the name and person and their position and told them I couldn't stop the church from harassing me but I would keep on file the name of the person who called. That intimidated them and eventually all communication stopped.

When I left the church, I and a few others of us, got a hold of all our case folders one night after the org was closed. Boy did that cause a ruckus but since we didn't take anything but papers there was nothing they could do. The funny part about those files, and there were stacks of them, was my idea of continuing on outside of the church. However as time went by I lost interest, was raising a family and all those files went out with the annual spring garbage collection. We took those files because some of the "confessions" could have been used to black mail some individuals, especially one person in particular.

I was not traumatized the way so many others were. I am grateful for the skills and good things that I learned. I believe they pursued me because of how much training I had. I still use my communication skills to this day that I learned in Scientology. I am no longer affiliated with any religion. They have all served their purpose.

Can't wait till we can look back on all of this, knowing we have come thru the fire, and how truly magnificent this journey has been.

lightwalker

[cuitlahuac]

Posted by Tangri (here)
I don’t normally comment on crank science that finds its way into my Inbox, but this evening I got a really good laugh. but lost interest writing on santilli's telescope at another thread, which is sad.

Yes. I agree the Santilli's "entities" look more like a promotion of the telescopes. Crank science, but, do you consider this thread "Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org" also crank science, as the post seem to imply? And if so, on what scientific grounds?

[cuitlahuac]

Posted by jiminii (here)
...I need to clear some things about this nibiru and more ... I can almost hear the conversations up there .. but I don't know who it is ,,, it is like they are making the decisions but with who down here I don't have any good cogs

what you think?

jim

My take on this post by Jiminii:

Mibiru is most probably some companion to our Son. Most Suns like us are binary systems, meaning 2 Suns, one of them a brown dwarf, a not shining Sun. It's not probable that there could be beings in the Dwarf Sun, but we don't know if it has satellites.

What I want to stress is that According to Capt. Bill Robertson, the telepathic communications can be intercepted or perceived easily by sensitive persons. He, Bill Robertson, could "feel" or hear the telepathic communications of the Earth Intell agencies. Telepathy is an effective communication channel in space.

So, if Jiminii states he is hearing the telepathic communication sent by... The Anunaki? to somebody on Eart, that's completely in alignment of what Captain Bill Robertson said one would hear if you were sensitive.

Jiminii states that he does not know "who it is up there". What we "know" is "up there" are the ones in the Moon, the Anunaki near Nibiru, the Mars colonies, the hybrid nurseries...

Here I better shut up!

Also Simon Parkes has spoken of the role of Nibiru or something associated to Nibiru and CERN as a time line shifter.

[cuitlahuac]

Posted by jiminii (here)
the auditor did not know I was doing this on my own ... there was a guy who said he was audited and found out he was jesus christ ... and I was new in this scientology and we are not suppose to evaluate or invalidate but he is telling me that the marks of crusifixtion were on his hands .. sometimes appearing ... and then he flashes ... and says "you were one of the criminals on the cross and the other criminal was LRH and on those crosses we decided to salvage this planet ... well I was already in trouble with scientology because of the powers I had ... I could move my hands trying to explain something and the entire org speeded up and this person I was talking to rushed me out of the org ... she said, "I am OT3 and you should go back to the mission you came from) ... I got back to the mission and was told I disturbed the entire Sea Org base over there and they thought maybe I was on drugs... I asked what happened ... they said : it made everyone in the org move faster what ever I did .. .. so this guy talking about being christ ??? well I couldn't get the think he put in me out of my head and I was afraid to report him because he was in data division and I had no idea what would happen if I did report him ... i just didn't want what he said in my head ... so I took the chance in session to go back and and look and i stepped in both criminals and knew I had nothing to do with them ... but go into Christ body ... if felt like some huge piece of concrete was slamming up against me ... not me a body but me a spirit and that is a lot different feeling .. you can have something slam up against your body ... but only the body feels it ... this was hitting the being inside .. and I just had to get out ... so my cognition was they were trying to stop christ from finishing what he wanted to do ... some kind of spiritual awaking or something ... and this UFO was cloaked in gold and I saw they were radiating something out to the crowds .. which at first made me think that christ was sending some kind of light ..means spiritual awareness of some kind ... no .. that ufo was implanting the area ... so I yelled it was a trick ... I had no previous knowledge of Scientology other than the books I read so I didn't know people could have a "winning valance" ... valance means the assumed personality of someone else like you act like your father or mother sometimes .. a winning valance would be to take on the valance of some famous personality and believe you are him ... well you have to audit all these valences out to find the person himself ... but I didn't know that at the time

jim

This is what is considered remote viewing in the Intell world, and Time Track Scanning in Scientology. In 1982, a person explained me how the CIA had remote viewed the life of Christ. I think this became to be the book: Caballo de Troya of J. J. Benitez.

I would like to explain this with an excerpt of the Philadelphia Doctorate Course lecture by Hubbard. Here he explains how a person could really change the past and so the future. This indicates that jiminni could have changed the present, by changing the past in the Crusifiction when he shouted "it was a trick".

The other point I would like to mention is that jiminii describes what might be an implant or "mind control operation" by ETs and it consists on hitting the spiritual being and the body to attach the spiritual being into a body. This is called Facsimile 1 and is described in the book A History of Man.

Note: If somebody prefers to believe this is Sci-Fi, that's perfectly Ok.

Edit: This concept of looking at an event and being able to change it is also described in the MIB II movie. An ET guy has the ability to shift timelines and witness the events in "real time", explains that one can change them but it could be unwise.

Oh, well, I’ve given… haven’t given you the rest of those. Uh… the… you scan the room and then there is a track called the ‘Imaginary Track’. The preclear’s track of what he imagines could happen to him. And he can get that.

And uh… then there is the track by geographical location in time. Instead of scanning where he is... he simply looks at the places where they are as they were. In other words, as he comes up the time track he scans through having been in Charleston, South Carolina in 1726. He looks at Charleston, South Carolina, 1726, and he flicks over then, and when he went from Charleston to New York, he flicks over and gets Charleston uh… he t… he gets New York, uh… two years later. You see? But he gets it in its proper space location. He’s actually flipping all around.

You can actually take a look at Carthage the day it fell. Sitting right here. And you can see the way Carthage fell. And you weren’t there. Take a look at it.

You can also get viewpoints all over. You’re just investigating the havingness which was Carthage which is in the stream of existence – which havingness still exists because the agreement existed and because time is simultaneous, but you have stretched out time in terms of havingness in order to have action.

You can be, in other words, anywhere you want to be at any time. And you’ll find your preclear, when he regains this, is in very good shape... Lot of things been going on and this and that and he goes around and he says it’s like… like being suddenly given a ticket to all the motion picture shows, uh… wonderful.

Of course, he really isn’t satisfied to be a spectator. It’s maddening to him to see Carthage falling and he thinks he ought to pull the walls down and he’ll think it so hard that he ought to do a mock-up [any knowingly created mental picture that is not part of a time track] and he’ll throw a mock-up in there and pull a couple of walls down or something of the sort in an effort to change the havingness of Carthage. There’s a lot of people that were agreeing on that. Then if he wanted to pull the walls down of Carthage at the right moment so they’d fall on the right legion in order to win the battle for Carthage, he would have to be prepared to take the responsibility for the entire change of the Punic Wars.

And if he was willing to take that responsibility, he would have to reach out then and take the responsibility for a complete alteration of the fate of Rome. That means that he would have to take responsibility for what he would then do by that consecutive action. He’d have to take responsibility for all of Christianity not existing. That guy just isn’t willing to take that much responsibility so he doesn’t change those agreements... A fellow gets very careful about this.

Because you see how much responsibility a person conceives he’s able to handle, how much detail he’s prepared to handle and so on – you can have the whole cockeyed universe if you want it, but you, I’m afraid, have to take responsibility for every alteration that would take place because of that.

PDC-30 FLOWS: RATE OF CHANGE, REALTIVE SIZE, ANCHOR POINTS
10.12.52

[cuitlahuac]

Posted by jiminii (here)

I am not the viewpoint of LRH .. and I am not the viewpoint of Siddhartha Gautma Buddha ... though I ran all their pictures through my head. LRH took 3 days .. Siddhartha Gautame took only a minute or so

Quite a spiritual ability.

we have different memories and different timelines ... but we all come from the same spirit called metteyya ... that I know ... some say he was disturbed ... but I never saw that ... but I do have the viewpoint that he could have had some disturbances ... in the Sea Org especially Flag Service Org was very rough on me ,.. because they had all those infiltrators ... but I will tell you what happened ... I went outside the base and looked at the building and decided to handle all the counter intention .. I spotted this ... this .. and this .. some kind of something in the space ... and suddenly something entered my mind like saying "what do you want to do with that?" ... this time I thought " hit it " .. next day 3 people RPFed ..means rehabilitation project force .. which is where people who are destructive to the org are given a chance to change ... they do cleanup work on the buildings or something like it ... and get auditing everyday to remove this counter intention ..
ok I went out every night .. if I found 4 spots in space .. the next day 4 people are RPFed ..every time the exact number I spotted the night before ...more than 100 were RPFed then the space was clean ... I don't know who was in communication with me spiritually .that would do all the RPFing ... but I wrote of a letter to my OFO .. ORG Flag Officer ... we are given to tell them if we have any problems ..I said, "well the space is pretty clean ... Now we need to bring those people off the RPF because we are going over the hump ... and we will need them ..." in the next 3 or 4 days almost 90 % of about a hundred of them were coming out of the RPF and given a different post than the one they were destructive with ... I never heard this happen in the Sea Org before .. usually they would have to stay in the RPF until they were cleaned ... but that many coming all at once ???? I was surprised .. it seemed they were following my orders and I am just basically a very new recruit .... then I wrote a letter to LRH and it said, "Highest evers GI gross income this week " .. we got highest evers GI since 1979"

Looks like all FSO staff and "top brass" were your "puppets"...

... now I can not see who is somehow communicating with me and they did my suggestion .. and it happened ... and so from their end ... I have no idea what was happening

because of these things and they never gave me auditing since 1971 ... I was really confused as to who I am and why they follow my suggestions...

the other things that happened there are this ,... 3 ethics officers came down to see me ... and said "jim we want you to write more letters "
i said. "why?" ... they said, "everyone you're writing to is coming in" ..
I said "why don't you get the others here writing too" .. (writing to people is something everyone is suppose to do but it is not my main job)
they said .."they don't write as good as you."
now is it my writing that is bringing them in .. are my intention ...

I have no idea what I am doing

then at night we are off work and they ask us to do volunteer work so I was sending out mail grams
they asked me to send out more mail grams
the same reason ... all the people are coming in ...

so I am not him
he is a different timeline and different personality than me ... and I have different ideas than he does ...

so please ... I am not a viewpoint of him.. I just went in to do my mission and see what came out of it ... I am more like an observer for those in the stars .. possibly from base 2

jim

I wonder if the FSO Captain should thank "Space Station 2" for the Highest Ever Gross Income...

[cuitlahuac]

Posted by jiminii (here)
oh sorry ... I didn't read it right .. I thought you said i was a viewpoint of LRH ... .. I read it wrong
yes I am a viewpoint of metteyya ... but there is about a million star children here too .. they are viewpoints of Metteyya too
then there is gaia ,.. there might be another million from gaia ... like inelia
and I don't know the other big spirits that are doing this together

jim

So, a tentative definition of Star Children would be persons spiritually related to a great spirit, like Metteya?