Who God is and what we are.

[picloud]

I'm loving everyone's input about the nature of God speaking for myself, I can see that were all looking at the same God, though through our complex and unique personal make up (who we are and everything we are) we each paint the picture differently, yet were all saying the same thing, essentially. I believe religion's downfall is forcing a unique and personal perspective of a very subjective experience to become the only truth or means of "seeing" or "being" with the God experience. In other words, religion fails to acknowledge the subjective nature of the God experience which is as unique as ourselves. Therefore I believe, anyone who has experienced Truth understands that Truth is personal, with key concepts. We all speak the same language, we just have our own way of saying the same thing.

[ZooLife]

Though it has it's purposes, describing who/ what God is is largely an intellectual exercise. Trying to encapsulate God.....even using the word 'God' to describe is ultimately futile.

I, myself, use the word God but I struggle with using a word that refers to ............

Even a elaboration to describe the word God more fully is a pale pale pale description of who 'God' is. Though, I will add, at least it is a slight sideways glimpse or hint.

[picloud]

ZooLife,

I think God is a word we use to define something that is as infinitely complex and infinitely simple as the concept of all that is in existence. We "box" the idea of God unwittingly through giving it a name with a huge connotation, yet this is our human way of grasping an idea in some sort of workable sense. God is a strong and misused word in my opinion, and very limiting. I'd rather call it The Source, personally. But at the end of the day, we as humans don't communicate telepathically therefore were restricted to word use and words are restricted by their inherent nature of being misinterpreted for various reasons (language/cultural background, context, emphasis, hierarchy and word arrangement, etc.). But we work with what tools we have and at the end of the day, we arrive at the true nature of knowing God and what God is through introspection, where our consciousness is limitless and thus able to perceive. Some of us, me included, try to translate the lesson into words like I do here so that maybe someone else reads it and relates? Anyway, don't hesitate to use the word God, it's a word and a tool.

[JChombre]

Posted by Piotrcloud (here)
I'm loving everyone's input about the nature of God speaking for myself, I can see that were all looking at the same God, though through our complex and unique personal make up (who we are and everything we are) we each paint the picture differently, yet were all saying the same thing, essentially. I believe religion's downfall is forcing a unique and personal perspective of a very subjective experience to become the only truth or means of "seeing" or "being" with the God experience. In other words, religion fails to acknowledge the subjective nature of the God experience which is as unique as ourselves. Therefore I believe, anyone who has experienced Truth understands that Truth is personal, with key concepts. We all speak the same language, we just have our own way of saying the same thing.

Not much to add to this excellent thread . Just wanna say thank you for it.
Many blessings,
JC

[picloud]

Thanks JC,

I took a bit of a risk with this thread, especially when saying that Jesus was Satan, Satan is God/Gaia/a piece of the Trinity etc. as it could have offended some but it seems that the people of Project Avalon are really open minded and can see the bigger picture, so my thanks goes out to everyone here for a) taking the time to read this and b) being open minded. The other risk was me sharing my personal experience. I laid it all out here as it was told to me without edit or sugarcoating... not knowing whether I was meant to share this information or keep it to myself. Alas I figured that both Jesus and the Buddha (who were with me on the journey) were into speaking their mind as much as I like to, I just have the advantage of being quasi-anonymous and speaking to an easier audience, so I went for it...

So! My OP isn't declaring the absolute and comprehensive state of the universe and God, it is rather outlining it all as a concept given meaning by us as humans, and using said concepts and meanings to inform people in the best way that I can.

Many thanks.

[greybeard]

There are facts and opinions about facts
The Self evidence pointed to by the enlightened is uniform and for me convincing.

"I am That I am" speaks volumes.
I can verify that I am without anything else for confirmation.
Self awareness.

Chris

[picloud]

To all,

One thing I have not mentioned in my OP is that a particular thought occurred to me during this meditation which poses some serious questions about our relationship with God.

I'm not sure where or from who this thought came, all I know is it was like a full stop at the end of a sentence when this knowledge was being told unto me. I left it out originally because it sounds crazy. In my last post I mentioned that the OP was as told, un-sugarcoated so... Here we go.

In life, there is only you and God, playing a game of hide and seek. And this means literally only you and only God (God being everything around you, people, animals, plants, the Earth etc) exist as two individual consciousnesses. That's it.

Here's the crazy part. Me, Piotrcloud, I am experiencing consciousness, as are you reading this. But who is real? I know I'm real because I'm experiencing my Self, and everything in my reality. So, I'm experiencing you, or other people. So... it is possible (since I don't share your consciousness like I can share it with God) that everyone in my life is made up, all imaginary, all part of God's (and my) game that were playing, and I'm currently the one counting in the corner, ready to seek. Is it possible that everything is an illusion in the sense that there is only my consciousness, and God's consciousness? And that everyone in my life is an actor playing their perfect role to be or seem like they are their own person with their own consciousness? Or, are they all simply God pretending?

Now you could say "I'm reading this and I have my own consciousness, I am real as well, I am my own unique soul." But to me, that could be part of the act to say such a thing. Also in reverse, you reading this theory of mine could say that this is God acting as Piotrcloud, writing in this forum (maybe to throw you off?) and I can be as convincing as hell in my attempts to say that I am my own person, my own consciousness, but again, acting is acting and God is playing the game incredibly well.

So... why? I think its because the consciousness of the universe is polarized by all means and ways (light and dark, male and female, high and low vibrations, etc.) and out of that polarization, two egos came to be. They share the same energy and at times consciousness (telepathically), but they have their own thoughts, senses and identity. One of these is who we may call God, and the other is you (or in my case, Me). And the whole game is just that: just a game, and the point is to seek/find God before the time is up (maybe time only exists in this reality for the reason that such a game can be played with limits on how long one must seek? Perhaps all laws of physics are like the rules of the game, to make things challenging/interesting?)

So anyway, everything I'm experiencing with my senses is God. God in many forms, but God as a single mind. I am the Other, at first fooled to believe the actors are real (in then sense they are who they say they are), because they are so convincing, only to eventually learn that they are not who they say they are. God and I are essentially all we have, each other. And the gift of life we receive is a game we play to experience things as if it were the first time. Like hearing your favorite song for the first time - that feeling recreated in life.

Remember that if you are reading this, you are real, but that's not so certain for everyone else in your world.

The end.

What are your thoughts? I'd love to hear some feedback.

Much love.

[greybeard]

Hi Piotrcloud
interesting thread and questions posed by you.
Ramana Maharshi when asked how real the Universe is said " Its as real as you are"
Elsewhere he said "There is neither creation, nor dissolution"

Make of that what you will.
For me it implies all is God's dream---However--- You are That.
I suspect it has to be known from am Enlightened State for any sense to be made of it.
As said Tim's thread seems as near as it gets for an explanation.

This forum has discussed the subject from the time of the original Avalon and are we any closer to a duality answer?
Is there one?
I dont know.
Still it is essential to ask and continue to discuss.

Chris

[picloud]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Ramana Maharshi when asked how real the Universe is said " Its as real as you are"
Elsewhere he said "There is neither creation, nor dissolution"

Greybeard,

Those words strike a chord with me. The latter is most interesting as it is quite complex... "There is no creation" to me makes me think of the idea that everything is nothing, and nothing in this sense, is the act, the fooling, the game. "There is no dissolution" makes me think that this what we are experiencing does not dissolve itself to give itself away and fall apart. You cannot approach someone and say "I found you, God, stop acting!" as the game must remain unspoilt, the gift cannot be returned, all you can do is know it's a game.

In knowing this, we are (or I am) at peace. I am not deceived, I was deceiving myself. I am with God always. Jesus said, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" to which he elaborated that what ever you do unto someone, you are doing unto him (Jesus/God). This could translate to the idea that everyone in the world is God and you are directly treating God in the way you treat your friend, lover, family member or stranger. In light of what I've been talking about, it fits the mould.

So yeah, makes me think indeed. Thanks greybeard

[greybeard]

Seems that the only thing that is eternal, unchanging, unaffected by what appears and disappears is Awareness.
Quite a few Enlightened teachers are stating this now.
I like Mooji guided meditations, a lot of information in them
Here is one.
Chris

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=BUDyy1rUSVQ

[Michi]

Posted by Piotrcloud (here)
To all,

Here's the crazy part. Me, Piotrcloud, I am experiencing consciousness, as are you reading this. But who is real? I know I'm real because I'm experiencing my Self, and everything in my reality. So, I'm experiencing you, or other people. So... it is possible (since I don't share your consciousness like I can share it with God) that everyone in my life is made up, all imaginary, all part of God's (and my) game that were playing, and I'm currently the one counting in the corner, ready to seek. Is it possible that everything is an illusion in the sense that there is only my consciousness, and God's consciousness? And that everyone in my life is an actor playing their perfect role to be or seem like they are their own person with their own consciousness?

Hi Piotrcloud

Per my view, your are very, very close ...
The best ever concept of who god is I got from a podcast, from Steve Pavlina: The True Nature of Reality

It is very close to what you describe above with the difference that you are god [as you are reading this post] and everyone else is simply part of the same conciousness. It's a bit difficult to sum it up in a few words.
Best is to listen to the podcast - it's incredible!

[picloud]

Devplan,

Thanks for the link I'll check out the podcast today! Excited to hear what this guy has to say...

Upon meditating last night, I pondered the validity of my theory and something (or someone) was suggesting to me that whether I'm wrong or right, what difference does it make? This seemed to come from my personal ego, or my critical self, be it me as I am or Higher Self, the two being essentially one and the same, blurred the lines. But anyway, if I'm right and I'm the only one "here" and everything and everyone else is God, it (in my view) is a beautiful thing. If I'm wrong and everyone is like me, consciously unique and individual, then again, this is beautiful. However if I'm wrong it just means I should learn how to discern between my ego's thoughts and those of my Higher Self or someone else. In some way, I felt that I'm neither wrong nor right, just looking at the relationship between God and myself in a different way. I still believe everyone is uniquely their own person/consciousness, but there's some level of overlapping truth in what I have discovered also, just need to see if and where the two meet...

My brain hurts.

Haha

[Cardillac]

I think the Hermeticists were right (if my read sources are correct Hermeticism kick-started the Renaissance) and they didn't sit well with the Vatican;

which is why I adhere to no religious dogmas and don't do "churchianity""- no, I am NOT an atheist-

mind is not "local" in our brains; mind is everywhere and we are not separate from the creator but are part of the creator-

Larry

[pueblo]

Who God is and what we are? The answer to both questions is the same...we are IT and IT is us.. moreover everything is IT and IT is everything...

[picloud]

Pueblo,

Thank you for your post! The driving idea behind this thread acknowledges the fact that God is us and we are God or that God is everything, and vice versa. I believe that is well known amongst the people here at Avalon, but what this thread is trying to do is answer the question more specifically. So yes God is us and we are God... so what are the implications? What more can we learn about God and what can we do with this information? What do we know of God through our own experiences? This thread asks everyone to pitch in on their idea of God and/or relationship with God or even (as I have) how God fits into our lives as a Being, not just an all-permeating energy. Basically, I started it so that I could see how others' experiences match up against my own and so we all learn something.

So Pueblo, I ask you, what are your thoughts on the nature of God? Paint a picture for me (figuratively haha) as I'm very interested in what you and everyone has to say on this matter

- Piotrcloud

[Blacklight43]

There is nothing that god is not.

[picloud]

Posted by Blacklight43 (here)
There is nothing that god is not.

If God is, then what "not" is, is simply anything beyond God. Can something be beyond God's reach/permeability/power? Who's to say that God is omnipotent? There must be a limit. To give God credibility so easily by just allowing God to be all and everything and even beyond God's self seems a bit foolhardy. There must be a state of absence from God... Such a state (or place?) wouldn't rely on position with reference to God's all encompassing self, rather it could be perhaps (thinking loosely and off the top of my head) a higher dimension than which God operates on. In said dimension, there needn't be any rules or beings, just void, vacuum, absence of consciousness, darkness, perhaps even an inescapable "hell" that even God's self doesn't place her/his self...
I say this because in an infinite universe/multiverse, there must be an infinite amount of possibilities, thus any exclusions are unwarranted and furthermore, all possibilities are as likely as any other. So there must be an absent state of God in some way, otherwise God would have no identity, and to Be or to understand Self must stem from some discernible type of identity that defines ones self by contrast or other.

What do you think Blacklight43?
What does everyone reading this think of this?

[picloud]

PS: "There is nothing that God is not."

I just looked carefully at that sentence and saw something interesting, breaking it down by its words and their imbued meanings. So to say: There is nothing... That God is not (breaking up the sentence) already changes it, suggesting that there IS "nothing" and THAT GOD is not. To me it reads as saying that there is a certain "nothing" which is absent of God, and God (in that) is simply "not". I may seem like I'm just twisting words, but I believe there is a secret message that reads between the lines of all things we utter in this world, however miniscule, that informs us (when we know what to look for) of a certain truth that is divergent of the original intent of the thing we say. It's taking from an ancient belief that speech itself is sacred, and if so, there is truth in all lies, and that truth can appear from giving different meaning to the words in any given sentence (critically, not just as we please).

Hope that made some sense. If you know what I'm talking about, you may have an innate ability to channel spiritual messages in everyday mundane or other speech and communication.

Food for thought anyway.

[Innocent Warrior]

Posted by Piotrcloud (here)
What does everyone reading this think of this?

If God is, then what "not" is, is simply anything beyond God.

Existence contains everything that exists and every thing exists. God is all that is, there is no thing beyond God. If you like, see this as a falsifiable theory and attempt to disprove it. Find some thing beyond God, find something that doesn't exist.

Can something be beyond God's reach/permeability/power?

Firstly; no, secondly; God is not permeable, God is omnipresent and impervious, all things arise from God, they don't pass through God.

So there must be an absent state of God in some way

Yes, there is. We can experience this state, however, the illusion of separation must be employed to experience it, which can be achieved in much the same way as I experienced being separate from my HS, except to a much deeper degree. We would have to allow ourselves to become utterly 'lost'.

* * *

In regards to the thread title, I have many views on who God is and what we are but the following quote is the perspective which is most meaningful to me, at least in this life.

"That which gives man a knowledge of himself can be inspired only by the Self - and God is the Self in all things. In truth, He is the inspiration and the thing inspired. It has been stated in Scripture that God was the Word and that the Word was made flesh. Man's task now is to make flesh reflect the glory of that Word, which is within the soul of himself." ~ The Lost Keys of Freemasonry

[ZooLife]

Posted by Innocent Warrior (here)
\

"That which gives man a knowledge of himself can be inspired only by the Self - and God is the Self in all things. In truth, He is the inspiration and the thing inspired. It has been stated in Scripture that God was the Word and that the Word was made flesh. Man's task now is to make flesh reflect the glory of that Word, which is within the soul of himself." ~ The Lost Keys of Freemasonry

Word is flesh, flesh is word, and thus mortal.

Word is like the clothes One puts on.

Emperor's new clothes, what clothes?