Shills in the Mainstream Media?

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

I will paraphrase a remark by top SETI scientist Seth Shostak, (in fact the Senior Director of SETI) which I saw in an interview recently. When you dig a little deeper into it, reading words between words, it's a rather troubling and pathetic one.

"There is not one shred of believable evidence that extra-terrestrials have ever visited Earth... There is not one shred of evidence that UFOs are anything more than the product of an over-active imagination."

I've heard this sort of thing before, many times, from like-minded scientists, academics, and intellectuals. I say like-minded, because they all appear to be of the same mind, or at least reading from the same script, and who always use the same vaguely condescending language when speaking authoritatively on this sort of 'controversial' topic. Shostak is one of a little coterie of television personalities rolled out regularly to comment on 'fringe' stories covered in the news, or feature variously on Discovery Channel specials. Their line being that UFOs do not exist; there is no cover-up; the Ancient Alien hypothesis is bunk; abductees are just fantasists; there is no human soul, and NDE's occur only in the frontal lobe, and are the product of a dying brain, and so on and so forth... Anything even slightly 'out there' is crushed, and these and many other phenomena are reduced to prosaic explanations.

Chief culprits of pushing the very narrow, rigid slot of mainstream scientific coverage (which in my opinion is nothing more than a slur campaign against anything mysterious, miraculous or paranormal) include Theoretical Physicist Michio Kaku, Astronomer and Physicist Dr Brian Cox, Parapsychologist Dr Susan Blackmore, and Psychologist Dr Chris French. And there are others. Some of them make the blood boil, others make it simply run cold. I wonder what is wrong with these supposedly intelligent people? Years ago it was the infuriating and slightly chilling God-of-Sceptics himself, Phillip Klass, if anyone remembers him.

I would find it highly amusing if, for instance, a large UFO descended from the sky and hovered over the SETI installation to say "here we are!" I wouldn't be surprised if Shostak was so busy staring at his monitor looking for 'signals' from deep, silent space, that he completely misses it. BTW Seth, you're wasting your time. The extra-terrestrial civilzations you're looking for do not use radio. They're like a million years ahead of that, just so you know...

For-Your-General-Entertainment:

Stanton Friedman vs Seth Shostak

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=1UvG9stLyAw

Whenever a story about UFOs or life on other planets crops up, which it does regularly, these so-called specialists are the first ones the media runs to. The sheeple listen to them, because well, they are TV Personalities! They have the smarts because they have letters after their name, so they must be right, right? Wrong. We hear the same thing from them every time. I wonder, are they purely shills, paid (or coerced) to pedal the official (false) narrative of denial?

I assume that they have to be, and I think many here will agree. Because surely the only alternative to being a plant, is that they are just plain stupid. But clearly they are not stupid people. Shostak for one, by his own admission, is driven to discover the existence of extra-terrestrial life, therefore I cannot for one second believe he has gone that whole life of his without picking up a single book on UFOs. The seminal 'Above Top Secret' by Timothy Good was perhaps (back in the 80s) the most seriously down to earth, most publicized and critically acclaimed book on the subject ever written. It's a must read for anyone who has even a passing interest in the subject. It's a must read even for those who do not, yet are compelled for reasons of conscience to inform themselves of something very, very important. If Shostak really did have one iota of interest in alien reality, then that book could not have passed him by. Still "not one shred of evidence", Seth? Are you serious? He cannot be ignorant of the obvious truth. Judging by his credentials, nor can he be stupid. Therefore he must be a shill. Same can be said I think for his cohorts in the popular media.

On another note, just lately I've noticed that particularly Shostak and Kaku are promoting the Exo-Planet theme more and more. Not a week goes by without a new and very promising Exo-Planet making the headlines. With it, some of their talk is beginning to change. Now it's more along the lines of extra-terrestrial life being 'quite likely' to exist on one of these newly discovered, and potentially earth-like planets. So I have to wonder, are they now being pushed to talk in this direction? Is the kind of disclosure TPTB are working towards more along the lines of picking up signatures, such as oxygen and methane (evidence of alien life), from an Exo-Planet, rather than ETs already being here?

[Megrubbieswet]

Posted by Star Mariner (here)
I will paraphrase a remark by top SETI scientist Seth Shostak, (in fact the Senior Director of SETI) which I saw in an interview recently. When you dig a little deeper into it, reading words between words, it's a rather troubling and pathetic one.

"There is not one shred of believable evidence that extra-terrestrials have ever visited Earth... There is not one shred of evidence that UFOs are anything more than the product of an over-active imagination."

I've heard this sort of thing before, many times, from like-minded scientists, academics, and intellectuals. I say like-minded, because they all appear to be of the same mind, or at least reading from the same script, and who always use the same vaguely condescending language when speaking authoritatively on this sort of 'controversial' topic. Shostak is one of a little coterie of television personalities rolled out regularly to comment on 'fringe' stories covered in the news, or feature variously on Discovery Channel specials. Their line being that UFOs do not exist; there is no cover-up; the Ancient Alien hypothesis is bunk; abductees are just fantasists; there is no human soul, and NDE's occur only in the frontal lobe, and are the product of a dying brain, and so on and so forth... Anything even slightly 'out there' is crushed, and these and many other phenomena are reduced to prosaic explanations.

Chief culprits of pushing the very narrow, rigid slot of mainstream scientific coverage (which in my opinion is nothing more than a slur campaign against anything mysterious, miraculous or paranormal) include Theoretical Physicist Michio Kaku, Astronomer and Physicist Dr Brian Cox, Parapsychologist Dr Susan Blackmore, and Psychologist Dr Chris French. And there are others. Some of them make the blood boil, others make it simply run cold. I wonder what is wrong with these supposedly intelligent people? Years ago it was the infuriating and slightly chilling God-of-Sceptics himself, Phillip Klass, if anyone remembers him.

I would find it highly amusing if, for instance, a large UFO descended from the sky and hovered over the SETI installation to say "here we are!" I wouldn't be surprised if Shostak was so busy staring at his monitor looking for 'signals' from deep, silent space, that he completely misses it. BTW Seth, you're wasting your time. The extra-terrestrial civilzations you're looking for do not use radio. They're like a million years ahead of that, just so you know...

For-Your-General-Entertainment:

Stanton Friedman vs Seth Shostak

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=1UvG9stLyAw

Whenever a story about UFOs or life on other planets crops up, which it does regularly, these so-called specialists are the first ones the media runs to. The sheeple listen to them, because well, they are TV Personalities! They have the smarts because they have letters after their name, so they must be right, right? Wrong. We hear the same thing from them every time. I wonder, are they purely shills, paid (or coerced) to pedal the official (false) narrative of denial?

I assume that they have to be, and I think many here will agree. Because surely the only alternative to being a plant, is that they are just plain stupid. But clearly they are not stupid people. Shostak for one, by his own admission, is driven to discover the existence of extra-terrestrial life, therefore I cannot for one second believe he has gone that whole life of his without picking up a single book on UFOs. The seminal 'Above Top Secret' by Timothy Good was perhaps (back in the 80s) the most seriously down to earth, most publicized and critically acclaimed book on the subject ever written. It's a must read for anyone who has even a passing interest in the subject. It's a must read even for those who do not, yet are compelled for reasons of conscience to inform themselves of something very, very important. If Shostak really did have one iota of interest in alien reality, then that book could not have passed him by. Still "not one shred of evidence", Seth? Are you serious? He cannot be ignorant of the obvious truth. Judging by his credentials, nor can he be stupid. Therefore he must be a shill. Same can be said I think for his cohorts in the popular media.

On another note, just lately I've noticed that particularly Shostak and Kaku are promoting the Exo-Planet theme more and more. Not a week goes by without a new and very promising Exo-Planet making the headlines. With it, some of their talk is beginning to change. Now it's more along the lines of extra-terrestrial life being 'quite likely' to exist on one of these newly discovered, and potentially earth-like planets. So I have to wonder, are they now being pushed to talk in this direction? Is the kind of disclosure TPTB are working towards more along the lines of picking up signatures, such as oxygen and methane (evidence of alien life), from an Exo-Planet, rather than ETs already being here?

Hey, I just tried to write on your reset button thread. It was over 5000 characters, and unfortunately I have to write it again. And i'm not sure if it'll be with the emotion of what I wrote in the first place. My names Elias, I hope your feeling much better in these cloudy times.
I don't know much about my previous life time at all. A lot happened to me and it all started in 2012. I was subjected to violence, death of family members, tragic things, others suffering and being trapped. I was kicked out in year 9 at my school. Forced to go to boot camp and being beat up there too. Physical fights, people kicking in glass and there foot bleeding out. Me throwing people off stares, I really was lost.. But all this happened so young. I was in year 9 when things spiralled. It only got worse until it calmed down in 2014.. When i decided to complete year 11, I made it up to my mother. She saw at the end of year 11 a changed person I was. She knew I had a flame.. She passed that year. I made it up to her so i don't regret man. The days she hugged me everynight crying to her and her comforting me.. We all have our nightmares man and it makes us ****ing strong dude. I feel like no matter what happens now I got a strong will, and my mothers too. She fought for her last breath to get everything sorted.. I feel like i have her flame too. I have started my Batchelor of health science (naturopathy) Naturopathic medicine.. I want to complete it and come bug out to america and join and work for some associations over there. I HOPE Your feeling better, i feel like its all of our duty to save many people and get them out of that darkness they once thought they could never do. I DAMN DID IT, I WAS LOCKED UP AND INCARCERATED FOR ****SAKES. I TRULY WAS a mad man gone wild, at ONE POINT I CUT MY FINGERS AND WROTE BLOOD OVER WALLS. AND NOW IM HERE WANTING TO DEDICATE MY LIFE TO HELPING OTHERS AND HEAL TILL I DROP. i JUST CANT BELIEVE the reversal of my life.. Its so beautiful damn it. I WANT YOU TO KNOW ANYONE CAN DO IT. IF I DID IT.. a once sick man like me.. Look once your out of this darkness you can help others. I'd gladly give everything to change the betterment. Eventually i want to come to america and help the people over there too. Such a beautiful place with all the states too, (geographically). We need to save eachother, we cant leave people in ruts man. It'll only be the downfall of all of us.. Sorry I had to post this here. Just wanted to let you know I love you. Just try to help as much people as you can, and never just live for yourself okay?
Hey mate, my name is Elias. I am from Australia, I joined here at 16. My world started getting crushed and happened at the end of 2012.. Getting kicked out in year 9..
I was kicked out of home, suffered everyday. Hit rock bottom, saw death, suffering, junkies losing hope... My thoughts are, if NO ADVERSITY HAPPENED TO ME. NO SUFFERING, NO CHANCE TO RISE ABOVE THE DARKNESS. I wouldn't be as strong as i AM TODAY. With no grandparents, a mother suffering for years and is now gone.. Endless physical fights with people.. I have grown to appreciate life, and live in the moment.. I graduated in 2015.. And have now just finished my first trimester Of naturopathic medicine.. (Naturopathy). People have stated that the biggest enemy is our selves, humans.. It's true, i know people my age and younger that have given up and just want to be rich. I CANT HELP MY SELF BUT WANT TO HELP OTHERS. I HEAR PEOPLE SAY LIVE FOR YOURSELF AND **** OTHERS! No man no, It's our duty to save as many people as possible. So we don't sink, so there's hope for us.. I wanna carry this darkness and burden. I WANT TO RIDE THE AGES OF THE WINDS, AND THE STORM.. I want to go out with a big damn bang, to know i HAVE helped and created a change, a domino effect persay. I'm going to get recognised over here in Australia for my efforts in Naturopathy. I want to heal till I cant heal no more.. I saved my self, I got out of the destructive hole of violence... Juvenile prison was wake up for me, to go back. Make up for my sin, and rise above the darkness I was shrouded around for some time.. I'M SICK OF PEOPLE THINKING THEY'RE ENTITLED. THEY ARENT, THE WORLD DOESN'T OWE YOU ****! WE OWE IT, AND IF IT DEARLY IS MY DAMN LIFE THEN SO BE IT. I'VE CAUSED ENOUGH bad back then to go, but no.. I was given a god damn 2nd chance.. And that's why I damn changed. I no longer care for materialist things.. I just want to damn help people and get people out of that rut... All i want to think about is to get qualified and bug the **** out to America, to help people over there too. I want to get MY **** ROLLING, I DONT WANT TO WAIT RIGHT NOW.. SITTING AROUND STUDYING/WATCHING PEOPLE ON FACEBOOK TALK ****.. I want to get out to this big bad world, and actually try to put a damn dint in it.. I want to change it up, and if it's the health system, (alternative/biomedicine/mainstream/conventional... Thats my aim, but in due time.. I just dont want things to heat up too soon, I want to be there.. I dont want my efforts to be futile, although socialising and giving people advice about their lives and what to change. Comforting them too in their darkest nights, its damn enouugh for me. Just interacting with eachother and lifting them UP IS NOT ENOUGH FOR ME, social exchanges are beautiful and vibrant. BUT I WANT MY abilities to heal create change/effect so others can feel it and show that what they are applying to themselves work.. And is passed down traditionally... I comfort you Star Mariner, I truly love you.. But man YOU ARE HERE... you need to reflect... The moment I realised i wanted to help people for eternity on this plane, was the moment i seriously got into Naturopathy. Although Alternative medicine is slandered by bio/conventional medicine. IT'S HUGE HERE IN AUSTRALIA, AND AMERICA... I see SURGES OF PEOPLE CHANGING, BECOMING MORE AWARE... IT MAKES ME CONTINUE, GO ON THRIVE AND BECOME THE PERSON I WANT TO BE.. To help the best I can.. TO KNOW I DIDN'T GIVE UP LIKE OTHERS, THE EXAMPLE OF CHANGE. I WANT TO STAY IN HIGH DENSE CITIES, it's where the people MOST NEED IT! Im seeing people my age, realising more and are just becoming more sharper... Like there growing and developing its such a great sight too see. Although I would love a partner/girlfriend... Its been since 2013 since ive had one.... I can see what your coming from... Thanks for your post man. THE WINDS ARE JUST PICKING UP, AND WE'RE NOT DONE YET MAN... YOU KEEP GOING, YOU KEEP THAT FIRE THAT BURNS WITHIN YOU STRONG, FOR YOU GOT A FIERCE FLAME MY MAN... AND EVERYONE ELSE ON HERE TOO, INCLUDING MYSELF!

[kirolak]

I am lost for words. . . . namaste! So much pain in such a short life. . . but, here you are!

[Agape]

Posted by Star Mariner (here)

I assume that they have to be, and I think many here will agree. Because surely the only alternative to being a plant, is that they are just plain stupid. But clearly they are not stupid people. Shostak for one, by his own admission, is driven to discover the existence of extra-terrestrial life, therefore I cannot for one second believe he has gone that whole life of his without picking up a single book on UFOs. The seminal 'Above Top Secret' by Timothy Good was perhaps (back in the 80s) the most seriously down to earth, most publicized and critically acclaimed book on the subject ever written. It's a must read for anyone who has even a passing interest in the subject. It's a must read even for those who do not, yet are compelled for reasons of conscience to inform themselves of something very, very important. If Shostak really did have one iota of interest in alien reality, then that book could not have passed him by. Still "not one shred of evidence", Seth? Are you serious? He cannot be ignorant of the obvious truth. Judging by his credentials, nor can he be stupid. Therefore he must be a shill. Same can be said I think for his cohorts in the popular media.

I won't be long today but ... no , he isn't anything of that sort . I spoke to Dr. Shostak personally for hour and half at the International Astronautical Congress in Prague 2010 .
He's very gifted and open minded being . Check his bio and the origins of the SETI project , he's also an astronomer by profession rather than ufologist .
The question was raised at the SETI conference by someone unknown in attendance of why are they searching for ET Life so far away while there's lots of unknowns to be uncovered with/on this planet alone and I think they were more correct too.

If you would understand the truth about ET encounters , rarity of those events and data available so far .. you'd understand 'almost everything' ( meant in jest ).

There are encounters and there are fads .

It's the same for science and its theories . Many contemporary science theories are 'todays fads' . They will fad away tomorrow .
But tomorrow .. that never comes .. takes decades to overcome, centuries and millennia . Todays technical science is some decades of years old . You think of 'cover up' , i think of science that looks magnificent and speeding forwards but compared to space age it's still in diapers .

There may be 60% 'believers in ET life on Earth' in every society but believing does not confirm the fact . If you would question many of the known et/ufo researchers and 'experiencers' even most of them would admit that they 'believe' they had an ET encounter but can not bank on it ,
that's for the honest peoples answers .

Most ET experiences are subtle . Save for one , I'd have never reported about ETs in open unless I knew what I'm talking about and saw everything to detail .
But that's because I consider myself honest and responsible being .

Many people aren't 'that way' or they just want to talk . If you would understand the way ET collide technically to terrestrial timespace you would understand how many people have experiences, simultaneously .

From any one event ripples of effect spread in local spacetime .

You would have to take even one good case open to investigation and team of scientists willing to examine the whereabouts with number of todays state-of-art techniques available and you'd get some data.

The next contact may also happen in 25 years.

So collecting real data may turn to be a painstaking process but you know Moor's law , the computers processing capacity for the same energy expenditure rises exponentially, that means doubles roughly each 1,5 years .
We may still get there ... in half of the time .


The reason why they're not listening is people flooding them with emails and this kind of fad going on with experiencers and so forth . You don't know who is for real and not . Not from the internet , not from the interviews.

Of course if you get the chance to meet real abductees and contactees you get lots more perspective and can discern between real or not.
As a guide or a counsellor , it's not your job to tell people who is for real or not, either .
It's unfortunately that way too, psychologists, gurus or shamans don't have an automatic 'legal stamp' that would validate peoples experiences .

Those who are advanced enough to see .. they're precise in their response . The rest reside within their reserved fad and fashion.


If you look at the way 'yoga' ( just for example ) is being taught and practised out of India today and ask some of those millions of people who follow yoga classes and get teacher degrees too but few would be able to recall knowing about the philosophy and science behind the 'yoga' movement ,
and those who are orthodoxly anything ..would even insist there's nothing 'behind' the exercise else their church would call them heretics.

How ignorant of the facts but so are all of our fashion movements .

If there's a large gathering of people here today who somehow, after watching many Camelot videos incorporated the idea of ET on Earth in its various menacing or less fashions to their 'mind stream' and believe that this has to be so basing on fact that our governments are mostly weak and corrupt,
the logic of our materialistically oriented governments being so capable of higher calculus and spending their nights on researching ET is slightly if not more flawed in my opinion.

[KiwiElf]

Yes, I remember Phillip Klass.... (he ridiculed everything). I think UFOologists dropped the "KL" off his last name and added "hole" to the end of it.

[Agape]

Science happens in labs more than in streets . I wouldn't say it can't happen in your living room if you're upto it .
But someone with clear idea would have to start , with pure minds and away from the conspiracy theory claws.

Large movements indeed stir many peoples minds and may make you believe all sort of things.
The same 'movement' worked on making me disbelieve myself from the first moment i entered the 'collective' because of their own assertions and convictions and experiences and those are largely based on individual testimonies, so far .
It's not that people would call me a liar , and they treated me rather kindly but they'd insist ( by the internet 'glance' ) that i'm probably doubting myself or not doubting myself enough ,
and apply virtually the same skeptic check to my statements where it would differ from their personal experience .
Then they stopped not because [ the old cliche] 'the witness stopped responding' or 'is unwilling to provide further evidence' but because there was no one to investigate anything , beyond the scopes of internet ping-pong
and secondly , for the prophecy of great gov conspiracy and 'know-t'alls' behind the scenes .


People eager to investigate are pretty hard to see in this area, and this very project as well . Propagating information and researching it are two different vectors .


Skipping the rest

[Agape]

The problem is money ( as usually ) in my opinion . The SETI is very far reaching project that started with few astronomers - enthusiasts who certainly were believers in ET life .
Most people involved in the SETI are believers in ET Life else they would not spend their lives and careers on it . They're privately funded and the 'big money' is missing because in the eyes of larger academic community and compared to federal budget it's 'money ( equipments plus energy plus effort ) send away to space' so to every myopic materialist this looks like vane effort .
They're likewise under pressure to 'produce results' for few decades now .

See Frank Drake the father of the project and he certainly was devoted to the intuition of detecting intelligent civilisation in one of the nearby constellations .

Drake used a radio telescope with a diameter of 85 feet (26 m) to examine the stars Tau Ceti and Epsilon Eridani near the 1.420 gigahertz marker frequency.[1] Both are nearby Sun-like stars that then seemed reasonably likely to have inhabited planets. A 400 kilohertz band was scanned around the marker frequency, using a single-channel receiver with a bandwidth of 100 hertz. The information was stored on tape for off-line analysis. Some 150 hours of intermittent observation during a four-month period detected no recognizable signals. A false signal was detected on April 8, 1960, but it was determined to have originated from a high-flying aircraft.


The receiver was tuned to wavelengths near 21 cm, which is the wavelength of radiation emitted naturally by interstellar hydrogen; it was thought that this would be familiar, as a kind of universal standard, to anyone attempting interstellar radio communication.[4

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Ozma








With more sensitive equipment i believe the chances to be able to detect and analyse signal using variety of universal frequencies will also rise exponentially .
It's more likely that any advanced civilisation out there are using whole array and alphabet of frequencies rather than sending out single note .. B...

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Thank you Agape. I am willing to believe that some of the 'science celebrities' named in the original post might not be shills, that is certainly possible, but the alternative can only be that they really are "genuine sceptics". I am of the opinion, rightly or wrongly, that a genuine sceptic in this analysis (not a shill per se), is one who refutes the reality of things such as UFOs, spiritual phenomena, Bigfoot etc, because A), they have NOT investigated the evidence, and know nothing about the subject whatever (they are basically ignorant), or B), they cannot wrap their heads around the possibility of a supernatural reality, and cannot make that vital jump in consciousness.

However I do maintain my original hypothesis that SETI is a lot of complete nonsense, a sham, and is a massive, criminal waste of money and time. I too have had encounters, many experiences, with beings not of this earth. ETs use thought transference - Telepathy - to communicate over distance, even interstellar. As far as I can understand, they use frequencies of cosmic energy existing outside of our dimension, which travels far beyond the speed of light. This boosts and carries these thought signals (by way of advanced technology) to where they want them to go. SETI have wasted decades looking for something that does not exist. SETI (and Shostak) have wasted all these years looking for something that is already here, because ETs are on the earth right now. And they were here long before humans even walked upright.

There are no ETs out there using radio frequencies of ANY KIND that can be detected with ANY KIND of terrestrial, human technology (at least nothing SETI has access to!) And the establishment assuredly know this, and is why they're happy to waste money on it, because it satisfies the mainstream scientific drive to address the question of alien life. Same as sending probes to Mars. Also a waste of time. The government has already had decades of secret contact, secret collaborations, and secret deals, with advanced ET races. And they've already had boots on Mars and know exactly what's there. So what is SETI (as well as NASA) but just another smokescreen (whether Shostak knows this or not), and a gigantic waste of time and money?

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Thank you Megrubbieswet of your tale. That's a startling, disturbing, and obviously traumatic life you've led. I can only add to what kirolak said: kudos for your recovery and the subsequent revelations you've had, about yourself, the world, and what life's all about. I extend my deepest respect to you for the work you're doing!

[Agape]

Posted by Star Mariner (here)
However I do maintain my original hypothesis that SETI is a lot of complete nonsense, a sham, and is a massive, criminal waste of money and time. I too have had encounters, many experiences, with beings not of this earth. ETs use thought transference - Telepathy - to communicate over distance, even interstellar. As far as I can understand, they use frequencies of cosmic energy existing outside of our dimension, which travels far beyond the speed of light. This boosts and carries these thought signals (by way of advanced technology) to where they want them to go. SETI have wasted decades looking for something that does not exist. SETI (and Shostak) have wasted all these years looking for something that is already here, because ETs are on the earth right now. And they were here long before humans even walked upright.

There are no ETs out there using radio frequencies of ANY KIND that can be detected with ANY KIND of terrestrial, human technology (at least nothing SETI has access to!) And the establishment assuredly know this, and is why they're happy to waste money on it, because it satisfies the mainstream scientific drive to address the question of alien life. Same as sending probes to Mars.

Hello Star Mariner , I do appreciate your questioning of what's really going on and up in the 'search for the ET' area and can only offer my own 'inside perspective' in this case ,
as someone with history of powerful ET encounter ( please check my E.T.Origins of Mankind Witness sub-board on the bottom of the forum for Bodhgaya ET Event report ) that has supplied me with almost limitless amount of ET data of scientific value - that would indeed require the cooperation of science , to become of any use at all ,
encounter powerful enough to change everything I'd not understand otherwise
and to bring me back from the depths of meditation and spirituality to the worldly reality of scientific inquiry .
In more than one way , I've seen probably 'too much' to take any bias easy , be it 'scientific' or 'spiritual' .
I could explain , for hours and hours .. probably , how do things connect and why are we here but all I knew that time and all I know now is how little time we have .

So 'releasing information' to the cacophony of voices and opinions is really a waste of time and energy unless you speak to someone with broad backgrounds in science who can evaluate your statements on a run and have the wish to know more ,
first place .

So I doubt myself , talking to the general audience here many of whom do consider themselves 'well informed' or even 'over informed' ,
many from reading someones elses 'press' and yet , we can't agree on core principles ,
as i've said many times i probably just gravely misunderstood meaning of these forums ..
( no I didn't , it was none of my intention to join any such, B.J. Booth of the ufocasebooks where I've submitted my first and second article in 2006 could probably confirm )

If I understand you well , you're not asking a question ... you're 'making a statement' .

From my perspective , ETs are perfectly physical , technical , they do operate in different frequency range than we're accustomed to humanly ,

so also , they have to be detectable using more sensitive instruments .

Radio waves may sound like 'too simple' way to communicate but their advantage is they travel far distances in space from the transmitting point and should be , theoretically detectable by even simple minded technical civilisation once it's cable of building sufficiently sensitive and broad spectred radio receivers .

The SETI approach does not negate other detection methods or approaches , in fact the spectre of methods being tested nowadays is growing faster than ever .

It may be that once human science is able to decode frequency fields present on this very planet that are now 'inaccessible to most of human sight or hearing and evade majority of instruments commonly used today for human communication range

not only they'll confirm your 'thought transference' happens on discernible frequency range but will discover whole new world right beside us - that we sometimes call 'parallel dimension' or 'another world'.

Just because something is not detectable by todays instruments does not mean it isn't tangible, or physical phenomenon !!!

The first microscopes were able to see some simple cellular structures , it took two hundred years of technical evolution so it's possible to find out about the reality of viruses who are generally , thousands of times smaller than average bacteria and see them in your own eyes .
At the beginning of the microbiology the people who founded 'microbial theory' of pathogenic causes of human and animal diseases were looked upon as charlatans ! No one believed there's something so tiny and intangible that could cause deadly anthrax infection, for example.
There are few people to this day who will still argue against the 'microbial theory' and will stress that's really not-a-huge-trouble because IF you're in state of health and balance , your immune system is strong enough to destroy any pathogen .

It's late to argue .. after majority of this civilisation was invaded by trillions upon trillions ( not stars, not 'aliens' ) but bacterial and viral colonies
because we offer them so much 'good stuff' to eat . In last desperate attempt to save human civilisation I see everyone's eating tons of 'probiotics' and harbouring so called 'friendly microbiome' , doctors cry on how badly antibiotics turned inefficient
because all these little 'replicants' mutate fast , adapt faster and gaining huge advantage over the 'elephants' of human bodies .

So wait ... I agree with you wholeheartedly and consciously, ETs are detectable but not quite yet ,
by the cameras and frequency tuners and other devices available in public sector ,
is someone working on these things in labs,
bet sure they are .
But there would have to be match - between the device - method and the ET. Because ET may or may not be invited to your lab .

Also a waste of time. The government has already had decades of secret contact, secret collaborations, and secret deals, with advanced ET races. And they've already had boots on Mars and know exactly what's there. So what is SETI (as well as NASA) but just another smokescreen (whether Shostak knows this or not), and a gigantic waste of time and money?

I disagree on that strongly . Not from my ET civilisations point of view , hardly from any other ET civilisation point of view unless they'd be somehow , humanly dumb.
I mean no wrong , your government and system is unique to you and i'm not touching it .
But from i've seen personally, the ET world is way different , biological , physical and mental parameters and organisation level differs .
What does it mean ? They see here for what it is to them, bubble bodies, lights and shadows, their favourite thinking patterns , not for what-you-think-it-is .

ET may like your memory of cartoon characters the best or the collection of your herbs as long as it matches to something in their world.
Your philosophical/governmental/political structures are entirely yours, they don't match .


Governments or military are but other human beings. They're not much smarter than most of you and every territory have few much smarter or more sensitive individuals than those found in your governments.
Governments are generally extremely busy people . I'm not sure what are your imaginations about those working in governments but i find them very mundane , very mediocre and very very busy people, with schedule so tight there's not much space left really .

Try to get any of them 'switch off' from the problems they're dealing with and you'd see they'd blank out .
In fact most people when confronted with ET intelligence do blank out . And when they 'catch up' after attempting to rewire their brain circuits , process lasting few nanoseconds really,
all sorts of things come out of those people . Instinctive patterns , fears , subliminal reactions, defence mechanisms, imaginations , protective phantasies .

So now you have internet full of people fantasising about 'aliens' and the ETs of your imaginations can be anything really , no boundaries .

That's why i insist on broad spectre scientific understanding and platform where a meeting between two close civilisations will be possible is necessary ,
not 'dwelling' on your version of science but opening a door to another version too.


If you think you don't need any of this, then fine, we can close the file and go back to what was here already for millions of years . Sit under tree , and keep it simple .

[Agape]

The original reason ( old but true ) behind the 'ET/UFO conspiracy' that most todays conspiracy theorists won't tell you = because conspiracy theory is being intriguingly reinvented on the run ,
is that ETs won't respect any human 'government' or 'regime' for what it is and would probably cause large anarchy in human society,
on that account, or by introducing their alien governing principles .
( therefor , governments invented MIBs and MJs to deal with the unknown threat, faster than it spreads )

That's the true and original fear of most dumbs .

For sure , why would someone come here from far across the Space to bow to these hardly functioning human governments, of all ,
and which one are you suggesting they should talk to ? The American government ? The Russians ? The Chinese ? What about DPRK ( that's North Korea ) ?

Are you telling me that THIS world has a government ?

For the second part of the presumption , that is ET introducing and installing their own system that would be ultimately destructive to human society ,
such a fear sounds plausible at first thought but if you think twice and realise we are still really struggling to communicate between one part of world to another ,

and how challenging would it be to introduce another version of reality , mentality, and science to human scientists ,
most of the communication would have to happen in 'neutral environment' , way that takes pressure away from both sides and carefully examined before it ever finds any sort of 'application path' .

And I'm not saying it has not happened already but not the way 'conspiracy joe' likes to explain it's happened .


The problem with most of the above mentioned scientists is they don't have realistic idea . Weird as it sounds but most don't .
So if they imagine what the first global encounter will be like they start talking of 'machines' , 'probes', technical intelligence , AI even , or a signal ,
they hardly if ever do think ( or imagine ) sentience on the other end , albeit a sentience that differs from theirs .

Some are curious but swayed by todays extreme-hard-core, I'd say, morally undermining scientific principles that doubts 'ethics' as inherent factor in what they claim to have found as 'human evolution'.
They're slowly but inevitably digging their own grave with the principle of in-sentience .

So in turn, any highly advanced AND sentient civilisation out there will miss talking to such people who put headsets and play music to their ears all the time but can not listen to each other .
Until these very scientists feel ready to interact with other sentient beings and remain in the juvenile state where any 'technical gadget' is ultimately more entertaining ,
attractive to their understanding than 'live knowledge' ,
who sentient civilisation will bother ?

It's the whole , civilisation screaming for 'new toys' . Could be useful, well , it's like complaining what else is missing on this planet .
Things ? Food ? Waste ? Tissue paper ?

Hardly . It's the heart , the sentience , the evolved IQs working in unison that are missing .

[Agape]

I've also given them the full report on ETs , vis the Bodhgaya Event Report which i've seen in full 4D ,
no drugs involved . In full technical detail , I consider myself gifted after breakfast but no human mind would be able to invent or imagine 4 hours of live movie , all in other worldly super reality ,
Starship crash-landing on Earth 80 millions years ago, members of my own species .

I only speak in low voice and with curtains down too because the frequency of sunlight differs here too from our home Star ..

I don't know whether we've been here all those millions of years .. but since the first human ancestors emerged from that landing and all forms of life flourished and filled this planet ,
it's always been ETs and humans , walking along .


I know who i am and you know who you are and it's your responsibility to know and no one else can tell you who you are .

But, between the two worlds .. there's something important going on , great journey ahead ..

we need both ET and Human intelligence and technical prowess to get back home because we're not dealing with our own planetary environment here
far more heavy situation and elementary structure than in our previous home

also a gravity loop to overcome .

There is plenty of free bedrooms somewhere ..

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Posted by Agape (here)
I disagree on that strongly . Not from my ET civilisations point of view , hardly from any other ET civilisation point of view unless they'd be somehow , humanly dumb.

Hi Agape, I think I see where we're having a disagreement. Am I right in interpreting that, from what you believe and are aware of, our governments has no knowledge of extra-terrestrial reality, and has had no physical contact with them at all? Is that correct? If so, I can see and understand your point of view. But in my opinion, from what I know and understand, they absolutely do know about ET reality, and absolutely have had lots and lots of contact over the years. Bear in mind, there are LOTS of different ET races involved. Not all of them good.

You can check out the information, and read many instances of this contact taking place. There are numerous solid stories from many reputable witnesses (and in some cases participants). After years of study and collation, I have every reason to believe in many of these accounts, as they 'slot in' with what I personally know already and have personally experienced.

For example, I am very sure that not only did every president from Roosevelt to Kennedy have first hand knowledge and first hand experience with extra-terrestrials, but Eisenhower did, allegedly (and it is quite possibly true) have at least one face-to-face meeting with extra-terrestrials beings.

Basically my original premise was that SETI, as a program, was set up to detect the presence (with radio telescopes) of ET civilizations in deep space. That cannot be disputed. I'm also quite sure there are many scientists working with SETI that are perfectly genuine scientists, who believe that the program is legitimate, and their work is useful and relevant. Bottom line, however, is that there is a secret extra-governmental body working behind the scenes who control everything that happens on this planet - and keep hidden all the big secrets. Just check out the threads on the Secret Space Program!

All that I'm saying is, that given ETs already exist, and that there are powerful groups of people that know they exist, in the grand scheme of things programs like SETI are obviously not necessary.

Many layers of lies dominate our society, everything is manipulated, dumbed down, or engineered - scientifically, politically, medically, technologically, educationally, historically, literally everything is basically a sham. Nothing is not what it appears to be, or rather what it could be.

Like me, you've had your own ET experiences. Fascinating, life-changing experiences. So you too, like me, know ETs exist. Therefore the most powerful people in the world know they exist as well. And they have had dealings with lots of these races.

With all that being said, it all points to the likes of SETI, and NASA, (taking the Secret Space program into account) at best being smokescreen operations to hide the real truth, at worst, completely redundant endeavours (and a monstrous waste of money).

[Agape]

Star Mariner , thanks for keeping the debate logically readable at least and presenting both sides of the argument to public view .
Your side of argument certainly DOES look much bigger , makes an impression on many people and I'm sure will continue to do so.
I'm not saying ( quite the opposite ) there are no conspiracies ( the transparency of any of those endless official structures and organisations of all sort is big variable because they're , after all, human ). Imagine a race of purely transparent ETs installing their TRANSPARENT system and structures here on Earth ( merely hypothetically )no matter how benevolent and benefiting to mankind they'd be ,
people would still object, protest and run from those : after millions of years of acquiring 'dirty habits' on all fronts , including habitual lying and stealing !

The argument about humungous Space Program being run in our back ( with all it entails ) looks posh and unbreakable to TV watching kid
but forgive me .. on any close look ...

and again , I'm not saying that the major 'power players' are not having parts of space program that is secret but ..

the people who come out as 'whistleblowers' to those programs so far .. do not really resemble even Ed Snowden in matter-of-factness that an information of such calibre would certainly warranty .
They do not come with any solid statement that could withstand judicial hearing in my opinion.

I am not denying that most of the ex-military guys suffer from difficult to manage post traumatic stress disorder but they seem to have landed now on their sofas and talk to ETs everyday !
Not only that, they also talk to the president and other 'world leaders' on weekly bases and know what's going to happen with gold reserves next week ,
and their predictions almost always fail .

But they're there, with that huge space program in mind, ready to explain 'everything' as it comes.

Not even one of the worlds geniuses and leading scientists offers to explain 'everything' but some of these people ARE.

It's huge ( i'm telling you ). As an ordinary man you or I have no choice on their tabs than to buy huge bag of

Like me, you've had your own ET experiences. Fascinating, life-changing experiences. So you too, like me, know ETs exist.

=>

Therefore the most powerful people in the world know they exist as well. And they have had dealings with lots of these races.

Star Mariner => that's not valid logical implication.

'The most powerful people in the world' are 'the most powerful' because they can pretend to know a lot , not because they know a lot.

They're powerful because they have money and in order to accumulate that much money them and their predecessors had to outsmart lots of people,
make thousands and millions of people to work for them and NO it does not mean that all or even 90% of those people aren't able to think/be 'that smart' and earn their PhDs if they get the decent chance, the childhood, the food , the education and the love .

It really does not mean that those on the 'top of the food chain' you so admire ( not saying you personally and 'admiration' and 'fear' too are just metaphors ) are somehow better or more knowledgable than you are or born prodigies .

In fact and most of these 'powerful people' have the most worldly interests you'd expect them to have and they're fascinated by themselves , first and last of all .. their families, their smartness , their way of doing things right .

To the ET , now please , be a biologist and not a cultist for a while , they're just another picturesque biological entity of the 'human order' ,
not more or less .
No ETs I've encountered have a iota of respect to some kind of human 'power structure' or interest in it . It's a bit like watching an ant colony and trying not to disturb its motion while few of the ants - perhaps - start praying hopefully to you ( noble giant ) and tell the other ants that you have a secret relationship with the ant-queen .
That she is all yours . That's going to save their anthill. Can you guess that ?

The comparison is flawed of course where the proportions concerned aren't exactly physical as in human vs ants, but the proportions are still abysmally distant where 'evolution quotient' is concerned .

These ETs aren't really interested in playing game with us or signing treaties . If that's what you imagine and people claim all the time ,
it's not more than product of vivid and lucid human imagination. You now live in world and society infested with lies and violence
and so you imagine 'treaties' and 'secret space program' to sort out the paradigm.

What sense would any 'treaty' make to highly advanced civilisation if they see you're not able to keep to any treaty longer than 24 hours ? Or rather at all ?
Do you think someone comes here over the vast space distances to believe a madman ( any of those ) claiming he's 'ruler of the world' if the world they see under their eyes is full of starvation and wars ?

These 'conspiracy conundrums' do appeal to people imprisoned in 'advanced economical systems' worrying about themselves the most,
how would you justify such observations to few billions of people all over the earth who live in primitive dwellings resembling card boxes , are starved, have little access to clean water and sanitation , and other 'civilisation luxuries' ?
To the millions of migrants and people with guns fearing for their life.

Oh , are they all somehow 'part of your plan' ?

And then, logically , the 'ET boss' have to be of rather mediocre intelligence but great appetite , one of the 'alien' movie series , for sure, if he signs a treaty with one of your madman for 'the whole humanity' and the theory sure ends up in mankind eternally enslaved ,
eaten , beaten , with no chance for revolt ...

unless .. of course ... you defend your 2nd amendment ... and take them all down .


For sure , it all can be one giant psy-ops, and if so , it most probably includes this movement in its stride, the people who believe and perpetuate such theories and the rest too .


But that's not too smart , is it .

I've reported things because of their PURPOSE , not because of 'experience' . Now because of all you've stated and all you believe,

no one will hear what I have to say and no one will bother to discern quality and purpose of my data , save for few who are so gifted .


When movements and their cheerleaders speak down of 'experiences' to me they completely don't know what are you talking about , to whom you talk , but you just can't help yourself .. not to be involved in the chimera of your believes . All the rest of their argumentation boils down to psychological tricks and dumbing down .


So no, the only chance I have ( and I believe it's true for everyone else the same ) is keep your mind clean , clear and sober , and don't let the bustards take you down .

'Experiences' are not synonymous to 'purpose' . They may help you to choose your paths or determine specific purposes, they can make false impression of giving a life purpose too ..
it's happened to countless individuals starting and running semi-human cults on this planet ..

But you can't defy purpose of mother who lost their child . You can't defy purpose of sailor returning from years on sea . You can't defy purpose of ET who came with good will and heart to report about their fate to humans .
You can't defy or define 'me' basing on your presumptions .


Sorry for long and useless post , later ..

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Although I appear to be alone in this thread as I try to put my theories forward, I do not believe I am alone in this. You too are not alone with your beliefs and information. However, you and I, Agape, evidently believe in completely different versions of reality. We differ, that's all, and that's perfectly all right! I fully respect you, your point of view, your experiences, and your wisdom. It's just that we're not going to see eye to eye on this subject, and will not be able to in any event I think, because our understanding is incompatible, and is not at all close enough to significantly make a shift, one way or the other.

I think you'd agree with that, that you would be unable to come to terms with what I've been trying to explain, like I would not be able to come to terms with what you have been trying to explain. Again, no problem! It really is all right. That's the beauty of life: diversity, and variation of experience and point of view. We are all different flowers of the same eternal garden; we are all the same though we differ.

My love and respect to you...

[Agape]

We are but few against many , the power of multitudes .

I don't dispute your postulation ..with ease , knowing too well and it angers me quite a bit how philosophical immature and bound for success is some of our young 'academic' generation,
the great rhetorics and theoretical doctors who have never seen the real origin of their sterilised science and well padded life styles,
those missing the bigger picture , tight in eternal wars and competition and those spreading message of scientific inertia .

Science needs to remain open minded , not dumb, kind and compassionate to life , read sentient and honest to its mission ,
that means all of us .

We all have the right to take part , submit our original thoughts and discoveries and rise questions , great questions included because we aren't drones but living thinking beings entitled to our uniqueness .
So even if there's much deceit and this is the time of great deceit , we need to do what we can ,

and what we can't.

Peace and respect to you