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Thread: The Cosmic Predators - a Question for Avalonians

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    Default The Cosmic Predators - a Question for Avalonians

    A one-question quiz for Avalonians - Identify the author and source of the quote below from the list at bottom. Please don’t use Google or another search engine, just your best guess. I am interested not just in your answers but in your comments about the quote, about the authors, and the sources listed below and related this material. I will post the answer in another post further down, so skip my next post it if you want to guess first.

    Quote We have a predator that came from the depths of the cosmos and took over the rule of our lives. Human beings are its prisoners. The predator is our lord and master. It has rendered us docile, helpless. If we want to protest, it suppresses our protest. If we want to act independently, it demands that we don’t do so...

    ... They took us over because we are food for them, and they squeeze us mercilessly because we are their sustenance. just as we rear chickens in chicken coops, the predators rear us in human coops. Therefore, their food is always available to them.

    ... the predators have given us our systems of beliefs, our ideas of good and evil, our social mores. They are the ones who set up our hopes and expectations and dreams of success or failure. They have given us covetousness, greed and cowardice. It is the predators who make us complacent, routinary and egomaniacal.

    ... They gave us their mind! Do you hear me? The predators give us their mind, which becomes our mind. The predators’ mind is baroque, contradictory, morose, filled with the fear of being discovered any minute now.
    Which one of these is the source of the quote:

    • Carlos Castaneda, “The Active Side of Infinity”, Don Juan Matus discussing the“Flyers” of the Toltec Shamans

    • Rosemary Ellen Guiley, “The Djinn Connection”, paraphrasing various 14th century Islamic scholars

    • G. I. Gurdjieff, talking about the cosmology that exists beyond hypnotic sleep in “Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson”

    • David Icke, “The Perception Deception”, discussing the nature of our “blocked” reality

    • John Lash, a blog post discussing the Archons in the Gnostic text “First Apocalypse of James”

    • Eve Lorgen, discussing experiencers and abductees in “The Universal Seduction”

    • H.P Lovecraft, letter,1922, to August Derleth on discussing the reality behind the Cthulhu Mythos.

    • Barbara Marciniak, channeling the Pleadians in “The Bringers of the Dawn”

    • Lana Wachowski, writing about her personal belief system as reflected in "The Matrix" trilogy of films for "The Matrix Online" blog.
    Last edited by Kryztian; 22nd July 2016 at 16:22.

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    Default Re: The Cosmic Predators - a Question for Avalonians

    Castaneda. He was a fraud. The Idea in the quote is nonsense. Our planet, with all its evil, is an ordinary organic planetary evolution. No predators, no draco, no reptiles, just unbridled imagination. Good thread.
    Last edited by Biff; 24th July 2016 at 02:24. Reason: Added link

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    Default Re: The Cosmic Predators - a Question for Avalonians

    This would most certainly be Castanada. I'm a huge fan of
    lovecraft, so if you tell me these things were stated by he in a personal letter
    I'm going to be surprised but not overly.

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    Default Re: The Cosmic Predators - a Question for Avalonians

    I'm guessing John Lash.

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    Default Re: The Cosmic Predators - a Question for Avalonians

    Hi Kryztian, thank you and I will personally refrain from participating in the guess part. This is true and it was meant to come to the surface for us, as each will make our own advancement in understanding this and how our life has worked and interfered with personally and collectively to a great degree which may shock some of us, and certainly the rest of society (should that be on the cards). It will also shock politicians and other leaders in several areas who were not 'in the know' and did not suspect, but this shock has a purpose, and it must bring us all back together, nothing less than that will bring our desired and rightful freedom as humanity - and now is our time. There are also potential good news to find out with regards to ourselves, and a lot of responsibility that will come only when higher level of integrity and connection to our higher source aspects beyond any one race or species will be embraced. An emphasis will be put on what is shared and mutual between all ( other than those who have lost it or chose not to follow). It is very deeply disturbing to find out, when it can be seen and detected within us and others, but the face can and ought to be to our future and it is a key to our freedom, we must see, face and resolve and support each other while at it. (And there are a few ways, all connected to the laws of the universe, becoming aware to it and live by it)

    With some of the things said in this quote I am more reluctant to agree, or perheps with that which underlays behind the words -
    Quote "The predator is our lord and master"
    - Not mine, my friend, as I have non of those. Tricking themselves into our lives via manipulation and genetic interference in our creation to supress certain things and obtain certain other (or same) things for themselves is not impressive to the least and do not align with universal laws. That is not accaptable to be done to any living being, be it human, plant or an animal, so we have things to re-learn our self.

    Quote It has rendered us docile, helpless.
    - When we don't have knowledge and are unware, we fall into this category, when we put our prime trust outide ourselves we are bound to give our power away. When we fail to feel connected to all there is and to one another, even if the other have suffered from those subjgations and fell pray to it - allowing it to work via them.. (but genuinely remorse) and we do not accept, then we are uncapable to come back to the wholeness needed to get us out and can be rendered helpless.

    So there is work to do, but now is the time, and the only one more separation that is needed - is from 'their' mind back to our hearts - which is the source connection

    Many blessings ~

    Limor
    Last edited by Limor Wolf; 22nd July 2016 at 18:33.

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    Default Re: The Cosmic Predators - a Question for Avalonians

    Quote Posted by Biff (here)
    Castaneda. He was a fraud. The Idea in the quote is nonsense. Our planet, with all its evil, is an ordinary organic planetary evolution. No predators, no draco, no reptiles, just unbridled imagination. Good thread.
    so that voice in your head, the one that says wierd **** at times and prompts with ideas that seem out of character is you?

    You've never gotten emotionally charged (angry is the easiest example) and did things out of character?

    have you lived? (lol)

    Quote Posted by Limor Wolf (here)
    With some of the things said in this quote I may not agree, or perheps that which underlays behind the words -
    Quote "The predator is our lord and master"
    - Not mine, my friend, as I have non of those. Tricking themselves into our lives via manipulation and genetic interference in our creation to supress certain things and obtain certain other (or same) things for themselves is not impressive to the least and do not align with universal laws. That is not accaptable to be done to any living being, be it human, plant or an animal, so we have things to re-learn our self.

    Quote It has rendered us docile, helpless.
    - When we don't have knowledge and are unware, we fall into this category, when we put our prime trust outide ourselves we are bound to give our power away. When we fail to feel connected to all there is and to one another, even if the other have suffered from those subjgations and fell pray to it - allowing it to work via them.. (but genuinely remorse and we do not accept), then we are uncapable to come back to the wholeness needed to get us out and can be rendered helpless.

    So there is work to do, but now is the time, and the only one more separation that is needed - is from their mind back to our hearts - that is the source connection

    Many blessings ~

    Limor
    I see those statements as the broad generalization, not a specifically targeted or absolute statement.

    PERSONALLY i agree with what you wrote.

    for society as a whole and the vast majority of humanity, I agree with what he wrote.
    Last edited by TargeT; 22nd July 2016 at 17:47.
    Hard times create strong men, Strong men create good times, Good times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
    Where are you?

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    Default Re: The Cosmic Predators - a Question for Avalonians

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)

    Quote Posted by Limor Wolf (here)
    With some of the things said in this quote I may not agree, or perheps that which underlays behind the words -
    Quote "The predator is our lord and master"
    - Not mine, my friend, as I have non of those. Tricking themselves into our lives via manipulation and genetic interference in our creation to supress certain things and obtain certain other (or same) things for themselves is not impressive to the least and do not align with universal laws. That is not accaptable to be done to any living being, be it human, plant or an animal, so we have things to re-learn our self.

    Quote It has rendered us docile, helpless.
    - When we don't have knowledge and are unware, we fall into this category, when we put our prime trust outide ourselves we are bound to give our power away. When we fail to feel connected to all there is and to one another, even if the other have suffered from those subjgations and fell pray to it - allowing it to work via them.. (but genuinely remorse and we do not accept), then we are uncapable to come back to the wholeness needed to get us out and can be rendered helpless.

    So there is work to do, but now is the time, and the only one more separation that is needed - is from their mind back to our hearts - that is the source connection

    Many blessings ~

    Limor
    I see those statements as the broad generalization, not a specifically targeted or absolute statement.

    PERSONALLY i agree with what you wrote.

    for society as a whole and the vast majority of humanity, I agree with what he wrote.
    Deliberate generlizations. As we find out how we create and how our thoughts count, it is the relation to the whole that may want to include as many as possible. using the realism of a situation to push forward towards creation - thus finding a new way to be and to express ~
    Last edited by Limor Wolf; 22nd July 2016 at 18:34.

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    Default Re: The Cosmic Predators - a Question for Avalonians

    Castañeda did say something very similar with different words so i think this is from David Icke
    honoring White Feather: SHIFT HAPPENED

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    Default Re: The Cosmic Predators - a Question for Avalonians

    Quote Posted by Biff (here)
    Castaneda. He was a fraud. The Idea in the quote is nonsense. Our planet, with all its evil, is an ordinary organic planetary evolution. No predators, no draco, no reptiles, just unbridled imagination. Good thread.
    Regardless of what one thinks of Castaneda, I know not of anyone else on this list who has offered actual methods one could put into use in order to free up the necessary energy to open ordinarily atrophied organs of perception.
    All of Castaneda's books are method based, which means he offers exercises and or practices both physical and psychological one may implement in order to increase the energy flowing through one's energy field.
    Castaneda sums up all of these practices in his last book by stating that the end goal of this work is in freeing oneself from the hidden controllers of the human race. The fliers.

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    Default Re: The Cosmic Predators - a Question for Avalonians

    So 9eagle9 didn't make the list?!

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    Default Re: The Cosmic Predators - a Question for Avalonians

    Quote Posted by Kryztian (here)
    A one-question quiz for Avalonians - Identify the author and source of the quote below from the list at bottom. Please don’t use Google or another search engine, just your best guess. I am interested not just in your answers but in your comments about the quote, about the authors, and the sources listed below and related this material. I will post the answer in another post further down, so skip my next post it if you want to guess first.

    Quote We have a predator that came from the depths of the cosmos and took over the rule of our lives. Human beings are its prisoners. The predator is our lord and master. It has rendered us docile, helpless. If we want to protest, it suppresses our protest. If we want to act independently, it demands that we don’t do so...

    ... They took us over because we are food for them, and they squeeze us mercilessly because we are their sustenance. just as we rear chickens in chicken coops, the predators rear us in human coops. Therefore, their food is always available to them.

    ... the predators have given us our systems of beliefs, our ideas of good and evil, our social mores. They are the ones who set up our hopes and expectations and dreams of success or failure. They have given us covetousness, greed and cowardice. It is the predators who make us complacent, routinary and egomaniacal.

    ... They gave us their mind! Do you hear me? The predators give us their mind, which becomes our mind. The predators’ mind is baroque, contradictory, morose, filled with the fear of being discovered any minute now.
    Which one of these is the source of the quote:


    • Carlos Castaneda, “The Active Side of Infinity”, Don Juan Matus discussing the“Flyers” of the Toltec Shamans
    • Rosemary Ellen Guiley, “The Djinn Connection”, paraphrasing various 14th century Islamic scholars
    • G. I. Gurdjieff, talking about the cosmology that exists beyond hypnotic sleep in “Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson”
    • David Icke, “The Perception Deception”, discussing the nature of our “blocked” reality
    • John Lash, a blog post discussing the Archons in the Gnostic text “First Apocalypse of James”
    • Eve Lorgen, discussing experiencers and abductees in “The Universal Seduction”
    • H.P Lovecraft, letter,1922, to August Derleth on discussing the reality behind the Cthulhu Mythos.
    • Barbara Marciniak, channeling the Pleadians in “The Bringers of the Dawn”
    • Lana Wachowski, writing about her personal belief system as reflected in "The Matrix" trilogy of films for "The Matrix Online" blog.

    So many of the folks you have listed have helped to contribute to my view of what is going on.
    Not so much John Lash, that dude was just ripping off Castaneda and Gnostic principles, that dude got famous for basically cutting and pasting.
    Rosemary Ellen Guiley is pretty good, but basically she bases her idea of the Djinn off of Castaneda's "inorganic beings". And personally I think she is correct in doing this, one can't help but to see similiarties in the two.
    Barbara Marciniak is an out and out fraud. I've met Marciniak and through questioning she got defensive and tried to throw Billy Meier under the bus as a fraud. No, of the two Billy Meier would not be the fraud.
    The Wachowski brothers were heavily influenced by Gnosticism and Castaneda.
    And while on the topic of awesome Hollywood movies, "Fight Club" was heavily influenced by the philosophy of Castaneda, and a little Frank Herbert in so far as that chemical burn scene.
    Eve Lorgen was influenced by Dr Karla Turner and Barbara Bartholic, but she was always influenced by the Castaneda/Gnostic cut and paste job by John Lash.
    David Icke has back peddled on his assertion that the parasitic Reptilians are physical in nature and has backed off to the point of stating they are higher dimensional and not physical which is really starting to sound just like Carlos Castenada's "irorganic beings".
    H.P. Lovecraft is a true genius, and I believe his works of fiction are sometimes speaking of his intuitions that may have some basis in reality, they often remind me of Michael Horner's "whale dragons", that he experienced during an Ayahousca vision. These Whale Dragons stated that they had created mankind, but a shaman told Horner that "they" always say that, what is closer to the truth is that they gave us "their" mind.
    Gudjieff is the only author I've not familiarized myself with here.
    I wrote a thread on these folks here "Parasitic Non-Organic Multidimensional Beings" https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...nsional-Beings


    I've practiced myself in reading spiritualist's and seeing through their BULL****, and I've got to tell you folks, Castaneda is not full of Bull****.
    I've researched him, I wrote a paper debunking him in college, in the paper I had read and listed the works of all the famous debunkers. All of the Debunkers agree in their interviewing of people who have known Castaneda that Castaneda did in fact go to Mexico and Southern Arizona often in order to receive some kind of teachings, and all of them agreed, from his colleagues to his girlfriend that he would come back a changed person and that you could barely recognize the person through the span of just a couple of years.
    Even his anthropologist colleagues who "knew" him refused to say anything bad about him, even though the anthropological field in general has thrown him to the meat grinder.
    I'll tell you what I think folks.
    I think South America and Mexico were inundated by refugees from Atlantis 12,000 years ago, and I'm of the opinion that small pockets of folks practicing the philosophies of those Atlantians have survived into our present day. I'm of the opinion that Castaneda's Don Juan Matis and his associated were one of these groups.

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    Default Re: The Cosmic Predators - a Question for Avalonians

    David Icke said it in one of his presentations, but don't know if he was quoting someone else.

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    Default Re: The Cosmic Predators - a Question for Avalonians

    I only discovered this quote last week in a the thread "Saturn is not as it looks." which referenced a video of a presentation by David Icke. The quotes appears in the last 15 minutes and it is indeed by Carlos Castaneda, as many of you already realized. I did look for more info on it on the internet and it is referenced in web blog posts by both Eve Lorgen and John Lash and compared to their own ideas.

    I find it remarkable how this idea is found in the teachings and writings of Meso American shamans, Gnostic Christians, Zulu sangomas like Credo Mutwa, and Islamic theologians, and modern fiction writers. I don't know if the later sincerely believed in this phenomena, but there is an understanding there that happens at least on a subconscious level.

    I enjoyed reading all your thoughts on this.

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    Default Re: The Cosmic Predators - a Question for Avalonians

    If you only discovered the quote last week, then you missed this thread:

    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...create-with-it.

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    Default Re: The Cosmic Predators - a Question for Avalonians

    I knew it was the first one on the list. His description of giving us their mind always stuck with me considering our reptilian brain and the way society is manipulated through it.

    The thing was his description of the parasite didn't jive with my understanding of biology. The parasite shouldn't reduce the host to subsistence levels early in the life cycle and just limp along the rest of the way. An evolved parasite would maximize the return over the lifetime of the host and not interfere with reproductive fitness.

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    Default Re: The Cosmic Predators - a Question for Avalonians

    Recently I have been massively targeted. Electronics won't work, not phone, computer or electrical testing equipment. Today, two different mouses stopped working one after the other. Google has been the worst culprit, not allowing me any successful searches in my last ten attempts.

    Seems they're awful hungry at the moment. They've triggered me a half dozen times so far in the last twenty-four hours. Not to mention the rest of the week...

    But it is starting to backfire for them because although I do get mad, I am also accepting their power as a fact of this universe, which means I CAN DO IT TOO! and I have!

    Don't like tests, sorry

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    Default Re: The Cosmic Predators - a Question for Avalonians

    I really didnt understand how this phenomenon affected me personally until participating in an Avalon thread. Agape kept emphasing that the parasites are screwing us. I asked for inner guidance of what this meant to me personally, and then a day or two later it dawned on me that parasitic thought forms were trying to channel my thoughts, feelings, etc. into destinations where i didnt want to go. The parasitism is so bad that they infest my dreams and can concoct false messages therein to misguide me with.

    This discovery made me realize that i have been struggling with these inner demons my entire life. As a child i would cry myself to sleep because of the spiders clawing through my mind.

    I sometimes wonder what bad karma i must have to be cursed with these parasites.

    I find that calling out the parasitic thoughts and emotions as being parasitic helps dissolve them, however they keep coming back for more, so this effort is a marathon and likely till death do us part.

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    United States Avalon Member DNA's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Cosmic Predators - a Question for Avalonians

    Quote Posted by Justplain (here)
    I really didnt understand how this phenomenon affected me personally until participating in an Avalon thread. Agape kept emphasing that the parasites are screwing us. I asked for inner guidance of what this meant to me personally, and then a day or two later it dawned on me that parasitic thought forms were trying to channel my thoughts, feelings, etc. into destinations where i didnt want to go. The parasitism is so bad that they infest my dreams and can concoct false messages therein to misguide me with. This discovery made me realize that i have been struggling with these inner demons my entire life. As a child i would cry myself to sleep because of the spiders clawing through my mind.

    I sometimes wonder what bad karma i must have to be cursed with these parasites.

    I find that calling out the parasitic thoughts and emotions as being parasitic helps dissolve them, however they keep coming back for more, so this effort is a marathon and likely till death do us part.
    I was going through the huge 9eagle9 thread that was linked by Lama above.
    It's an impressive thread for folks wishing to more fully understand what we are talking about. And Justplain, I ran into a post by one of this forum's greater minds Rahkyt, and I was just so blown away by how much I felt this might help to answer some things you were alluding to. It's a post with some Castaneda quotes in it, but it was just really calling for me to paste it here. Have a good day.


    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    Greetings, Friends. I came to Casteneda when I was 14 years old, interestingly, my first summer working as a Red Cross Volunteen, back in 1982 or so, at a military hospital in Washington State. The book was just sitting on a table filled with books and magazines, staring up at me, waiting for me to pick it up. Talk about finding the cure in the place where sickness concentrates. The synchronicity of that personal discovery and the path it led me on to this day continues to amaze.

    Here are some relevant quotes I'll share as I formulate a continuation and commentary on this most excellent thread. Someone earlier asked for practices and remedies. There are a few included herein, from the Toltec perspective. From Don Juan:

    Quote The grand trick of those sorcerers of ancient times was to burden the flyers' mind with discipline. They found out that if they taxed the flyers' mind with inner silence, the foreign installation would flee, giving to any one of the practitioners involved in this maneuver the total certainty of the mind's foreign origin. The foreign installation comes back, I assure you, but not as strong, and a process begins in which the fleeing of the flyers' mind becomes routine, until one day it flees permanently. A sad day indeed! That's the day when you have to rely on your own devices, which are nearly zero. There's no one to tell you what to do. There's no mind of foreign origin to dictate the imbecilities you're accustomed to.

    My teacher, the nagual Julian, used to warn all his disciples that this was the toughest day in a sorcerer's life, for the real mind that belongs to us, the sum total of our experience, after a lifetime of domination has been rendered shy, insecure, and shifty. Personally, I would say that the real battle of sorcerers begins at that moment. The rest is merely preparation.

    Discipline taxes the foreign mind no end, so, through their discipline, sorcerers vanquish the foreign installation.
    and ...

    Quote The flyers' mind flees forever when a sorcerer succeeds in grabbing on to the vibrating force that holds us together as a conglomerate of energy fields. If a sorcerer maintains that pressure long enough, the flyers' mind flees in defeat. And that's exactly what you are going to do: hold on to the energy that binds you together.

    You are fearing the wrath of God, aren't you? Rest assured, that's not your fear. It's the flyers' fear, because it knows that you will do exactly as I'm telling you.

    Don't worry, I know for a fact that those attacks wear off very quickly. The flyers' mind has no concentration whatsoever. You're being torn by an internal struggle. Down in the depths of you, you know that you are incapable of refusing the agreement that an indispensable part of you, your glowing coat of awareness, is going to serve as an incomprehensible source of nourishment to, naturally, incomprehensible entities. And another part of you will stand against this situation with all its might.

    The sorcerers' revolution is that they refuse to honor agreements in which they did not participate. Nobody ever asked me if I would consent to be eaten by beings of a different kind of awareness. My parents just brought me into this world to be food, like themselves, and that's the end of the story.

    The more you think about it, and the more you talk to and observe yourself and your fellow men, the more intense will be the conviction that something has rendered us incapable of any activity or any interaction or any thought that doesn't have the self as its focal point. Your concern, as well as the concern of everyone you know or talk to, is the self.
    Somewhere else in this discussion - I can't find the quote presently - Don Juan states that everybody is a victim of the flyers/foreign installation. Everyone without exception, until they - through individualized, personal and comprehensive inner work - learn to control their minds to the extent that the Archonic force must flee as it no longer gains nourishment through invoking emotional responses with its subliminal discursive attacks. There is a danger in speaking on this topic in an arrogant manner - or any manner, for that matter - as that invites more intense attack and potential destabilization of one's life. This destablization will manifest through one's own weak points as exploited through Archonic discursive attack or through the weaknesses of loved ones, family, friends and strangers, all subject to and ruled by the Flyer's collective mind.

    It is indeed like the Matrix, where everyone is potentially an Agent until they are unplugged, or that movie with Denzel Washington, Fallen, where the demon moves from person to person, using them to further its own ends. Other people can and are placed into our lives by the Foreign Installation for certain ends, often diabolical in nature from our perception of their effects.

    Another source that has been brought to bear in this discussion is Laura Knight-Jadzyck and the Cassiopeans. I came to their work about 5 years ago, read her early stuff - before moving to France and achieving cult status (according to her detractors) - and found some resonance with certain ideas, such as the OPs and the Wave series of queries to the Cassiopeans. To add a couple of highlights regarding Laura Knight-Jadzyck's discussion on Organic Portals (OPs):

    Quote It becomes clearer then why most "top scientists", in their theories, do not consider the spiritual dimension, or quickly write off any "unconventional" theories. The OP scientist (and just how many OP scientists there are is discussed further below) has no notion whatsoever of "spirit" or of the existence of higher centres. They are incapable of experiencing these higher centres, and therefore their descriptions of the world are lacking them. And because they cannot experience them, they deny their existence for everyone, including for those who are capable of "seeing" what the OP is incapable of seeing. In a materialistic world, where Organic Portals are in their Natural Element, and Souled Beings are NOT, with Organic Portal science drawing the boundary between what is true and what is false, there is no place for the Higher realms. It is "false" compared with the self-evident "truth" of materialism as experienced at all levels by the OP.
    and ...

    Quote To further demonstrate the working of the organic portal scientific mind, we have the following from Francis Heylighen, a research professor at Free University of Brussels and editor of the Principia Cybernetica Project, "an international organization for the collaborative development of an evolutionary-systemic philosophy". In attempting to convince us of the mind as machine theory, he defines this very situation and gives us an insight into and description of the mind and nature of an organic portal.

    In "Is there a Hard Problem of Consciousness" he writes:

    Quote First person experiences or qualia are the essentially subjective, personal feelings or experiences that each of us have (e.g. the feeling of "redness" or "cold"), and that cannot be described by words, formulas, programs or any other objective representation. According to some consciousness theorists, such as David Chalmers, an agent without such qualia would merely be a "zombie", a creature that may behave, sense and communicate just like a human being, but that would lack the most crucial aspect of consciousness. The "hard problem" of consciousness research then consists in elucidating the nature of first-person experiences.
    We believe that this approach is essentially misguided. If the hypothetical zombie behaves in all respects indistinguishably from a person with consciousness, then the principle of the identity of the indistinguishable would force us to conclude that the "zombie" has consciousness. How else would we know that the people around us aren't zombies? We assume they have conscious experience similar to ourselves because they behave in all other respects similar to us. But if you would take this reasoning seriously, then you might start to get nightmarish fantasies in which you are the only real, conscious person in the world, and all the others are merely sophisticated automatons that pretend to be like you.

    Have you ever had this "nightmarish fantasy" that the world is populated by zombies ? Well, guess what, it isn't a fantasy. Half the people out there are exactly that: "sophisticated automatons that pretend to be like you".

    It is entirely fitting that he uses the term "agent" (the Matrix movie anyone?) for the type of programmed being, "be they made from flesh and blood or silicon chips".

    He goes on to say:

    Quote Agents do not sense the world as if they were impersonal, objective bystanders, that try to internally represent the world as it is, independently of themselves. For an agent a sensation is meaningful only to the degree that it relates to the agent's goals, which, in practice, means that it is relevant to the agent's individual survival.
    Heylighen is describing the predator's mind. This is startlingly close to the actual real life scenarios of psychopath's behavior and thinking that are presented in Cleckely's book "The Mask of Sanity".

    The author concludes :

    Quote Consciousness is not some mysterious substance, fluid, or property of matter, but a level of organization emerging from abstract processes and relations. People who search for consciousness in elementary particles (a form of panpsychism that has been suggested as a way to tackle the "hard problem"), because they cannot otherwise explain where the consciousness in our brain comes from, are misguided. Their intuition may be correct insofar that particles, just like any other system, should be seen as relations rather than just as clumps of matter. But to attribute consciousness to these extremely simple types of relations is merely a way to evade the really hard, but solvable, problem of reconstructing the complex cybernetic organization of the human mind in all its details and subtleties.
    Here we have seen the Organic Portal view of themselves. Whether or not the individuals named are Organic Portals is not the issue. They may be souled individuals who have not yet been able to see behind the lie of the Personality. As long as that has not happened, souled individuals will function and see the world and themselves as if they were Organic Portals. But it is clear that this manner of "explaining" consciousness is limited, explaining only that particular form of consciousness manifested by the Personality - the exterior man. It can describe the functioning of the OP or the exterior man; it can not do justice to the consciousness of the Seeker engaged in the work of fusion to seat the soul.
    I chose these particular quotes in order to reiterate a certain primary point that must not be forgotten. Everybody is infected. According to Vivek's research, that infection is potentially viral, passed down within our very genetic structure and until we each, individually, engaged in a similarly stupendous maneuver such as that Don Juan credits to the flyers, they will return, again and again, adding their baroque and subversive vitriol to the stream of discursiveness that typifies the unawakened mind, until something very specific is done in order to remedy the illness.

    So the Flyers are here. They are embedded within each of us. They are whispering to us now. For those who've seen the movie, Cloud Atlas, the Flyer is exemplified by the past-life avataric representation the bedevils Tom Hank's character in the futuristic sketch, constantly whispering to him, evoking gloom and doom, fear and loathing. The flyers are that little voice that whispers to you that you are fat and ugly, skinny and retarded, that you'll never be as smart or as successful as your brother or sister, that everybody's laughing at you behind your back, that you need what someone else has got, that you hate or that you love, all designed as tools to further compromise your sovereignty as an ensouled human being and make you dependent upon and beholden to their thoughts, their mind.

    They are not in it for your success. Their final triumph is your death and that last devouring of your luminous egg, which must be like sipping the finest wine for them in satisfaction and intensity. They do not want an end to the drama, as 9e9 has reiterated, they want intensification and for you to go that final distance to total material and spiritual perversion.

    Perhaps a large part of the reason that threads like this are so lightly populated is that when reading them, people recognize their own compromised state and so feel unqualified, or afraid, to speak out. They may recognize that they are on one side of the bell curve rather than the other, and decide not to speak because of the personal anguish that might cause. I encourage those in this category to speak on your experiences. Since you are here, reading these words, you are obviously in a space to do something about it, to work on your own compromised state, to achieve a higher form of consciousness. No matter our state of being, we share incarnation and all experiences are valid and meaningful.

    The OP aspect is included in order to emphasize the fact that within this Archonic super-structure of culture and institutionalized hierarchical full-spectrum domination, any adherence to structure can be interpreted as an Archonic invasion. And that some individuals are more prone to adhering to the externally-applied structure they represent than others. Any referential aside that includes power relations stemming from personal or institutional sources is the Foreign Installation insinuating itself within the situation. This applies in any situation where two or more people are gathered, or even in an individual situation when you find yourself complying with the directives of your mind - expressed through inner dialogue, an actual conversation with yourself, even - to create some sort of unnecessary-but-mandatory order in your current endeavor, whether that endeavor is washing the dishes or walking without stepping on the sidewalk lines.

    Since half of the world's population is non-souled from this perspective and at least 45% of the rest have nominally made themselves that way by complying with the cultural instructions received since birth, resulting in the darkening of their own personal bioluminesence, practically everybody that you talk to, including most of us here, is compromised to a greater or lesser extent, depending upon their own personal work and observed and intuited behavior modifications. Souled individuals that take on sociopathic behavior in order to 'fit in' or succeed in systemic integration suffer the consequences of their actions commiserate with their nature. Non-souled individuals are expressing their natural state of being. The system is everything to one of these groups, to the other, it is an insufferable imposition. But it must be remembered that the gradient is a bell curve, and therefore, its expression is gradual between two very different extremes.

    Is this fear-mongering? No. Is this paranoia? No. It is a dispassionate observation based upon a position gleaned from experience personal and collective. Experience that we all have, should we choose to examine it in-depth. By in-depth, I mean the recapitulation process, as described also by Don Juan to Carlos Casteneda. The recapitulation process is not the ordinary rumination that we generally engage in when dwelling upon events of the past. It is a very specific practice designed to clarify a life in preparation for leaving it behind and become clear, what other traditions have called enlightened and no longer prey to the depredations of the Flyers/Archons/Asuras/Foreign Installation.

    Quote There is an enormous premium on time. For sorcerers in general, time is of the essence. The challenge I am faced with is that in a very compact unit of time I must cram into you everything there is to know about sorcery as an abstract proposition, but in order to do that I have to build the necessary space in you.

    The premise of sorcerers is that in order to bring something in, there must be a space to put it in. If you are filled to the brim with the items of everyday life, there's no space for anything new. That space must be built. Do you see what I mean? The sorcerers of olden times believed that the recapitulation of your life made the space. It does, and much more, of course.

    The way sorcerers perform the recapitulation is very formal. It consists of writing a list of all the people they have met, from the present to the very beginning of their lives. Once they have that list, they take the first person on it and recollect everything they can about that person. And I mean everything, every detail. It's better to recapitulate from the present to the past, because the memories of the present are fresh, and in this manner, the recollection ability is honed. What practitioners do is to recollect and breathe. They inhale slowly and deliberately, fanning the head from right to left, in a barely noticeable swing, and exhale in the same fashion.

    The inhalations and exhalations should be natural; if they are too rapid, one enters into something called tiring breaths: breaths that require slower breathing afterward in order to calm down the muscles.

    Begin making your list today. Divide it by years, by occupations, arrange it in any order you want to, but make it sequential, with the most recent person first, and end with Mommy and Daddy. And then, remember everything about them. No more ado than that. As you practice, you will realize what you're doing.
    and ...

    Quote The power of the recapitulation is that it stirs up all the garbage of our lives and brings it to the surface.

    I'm going to delineate the intricacies of awareness and perception, which are the basis of the recapitulation. I am going to present an arrangement of concepts that you should not take as sorcerers' theories under any conditions, because it is an arrangement formulated by the shamans of ancient Mexico as a result of seeing energy directly as it flows in the universe. I will present the units of this arrangement to you without any attempt at classifying them or ranking them by any predetermined standard.

    I'm not interested in classifications. You have been classifying everything all your life. Now you are going to be forced to stay away from classifications. Classifications have a world of their own. After you begin to classify anything, the classification becomes alive, and it rules you. But since classifications never started as energy-giving affairs, they always remain like dead logs. They are not trees; they are merely logs.

    The sorcerers of ancient Mexico saw that the universe at large is composed of energy fields in the form of luminous filaments. They saw zillions of them, wherever they turned to see. They also saw that those energy fields arranged themselves into currents of luminous fibers, streams that are constant, perennial forces in the universe. The current or stream of filaments that is related to the recapitulation was named by those sorcerers the dark sea of awareness, and also the Eagle.

    Those sorcerers also found out that every creature in the universe is attached to the dark sea of awareness at a round point of luminosity that was apparent when those creatures were perceived as energy. On that point of luminosity, which the sorcerers of ancient Mexico called the assemblage point of human beings, zillions of energy fields from the universe at large, in the form of luminous filaments, converge and go through it. These energy fields are converted into sensory data, and the sensory data is then interpreted and perceived as the world we know. What turns the luminous fibers into sensory data is the dark sea of awareness. Sorcerers see this transformation and call it the glow of awareness, a sheen that extends like a halo around the assemblage point. I'm going to make a statement which, in the understanding of sorcerers, is central to comprehending the scope of the recapitulation.

    What we call the senses in organisms is nothing but degrees of awareness. If we accept that the senses are the dark sea of awareness, we have to admit that the interpretation that the senses make of sensory data is also the dark sea of awareness. To face the world around us in the terms that we do is the result of the interpretation system of mankind with which every human being is equipped. Every organism in existence has to have an interpretation system that permits it to function in its surrounding.

    The old sorcerers saw that at the moment of death, the dark sea of awareness sucked in, so to speak, through the assemblage point, the awareness of living creatures. They also saw that the dark sea of awareness had a moment's, let's say, hesitation when it was faced with sorcerers who had done a recounting of their lives. Unbeknownst to them, some had done it so thoroughly that the dark sea of awareness took their awareness in the form of their life experiences, but didn't touch their life force. Sorcerers had found out a gigantic truth about the forces of the universe: the dark sea of awareness wants only our life experiences, not our life force.

    Sorcerers believe that as we recapitulate our lives, all the debris, as I told you, comes to the surface. We realize our inconsistencies, our repetitions, but something in us puts up a tremendous resistance to recapitulating. Sorcerers say that the road is free only after a gigantic upheaval, after the appearance on our screen of the memory of an event that shakes our foundations with its terrifying clarity of detail. It's the event that drags us to the actual moment that we lived it. Sorcerers call that event the usher, because from then on every event we touch on is relived, not merely remembered.

    Walking is always something that precipitates memories. The sorcerers of ancient Mexico believed that everything we live we store as a sensation on the backs of the legs. They considered the backs of the legs to be the warehouse of man's personal history.

    Walking will have you ready to begin this sorcerers' maneuver of finding an usher: an event in your life that you will remember with such clarity that it will serve as a spotlight to illuminate everything else in your recapitulation with the same, or comparable, clarity. Do what sorcerers call recapitulating pieces of a puzzle. Something will lead you to remember the event that will serve as your usher. Give it your best shot; do your best.
    While we may not hold many of the same beliefs that are expressed above, the base idea remains salient. The instructions, while being very specific and subject to modification, are also salient. Only half of the population of the planet are able to get this. To do it. That is disturbing only to the extent that we generalize about the nature of humanity, assigning personal characteristics that continue to be patently unobserveable in the behavior patterns of the general populace. And the majority of that half is under the spell of the Foreign Installation right this moment. Even those of us who are awake, those who gather and discuss here included, continue to experiences instances where our discursiveness immediately informs us that we have a Flyer infiltration. The moment when we question someone's motives in writing a post, or in their disagreement with our point, or in our wondering what their motive was, or in our attempts to set others up in writing when we already have an answer set in our minds. This is all infiltration, to the extent that we apply emotional weight to it and it colors our perception and resultant thoughts, words and actions.

    The natural state of humanity, as exemplified by the innocence of babies and young children, is one of openness, of living in the Now, of clarity of thought, direct honesty and joy. As the Flyer takes over, as their cloak of control darkens our luminescence, we grow increasingly more dense, concentrated, baroque. We then interact almost exclusively within the parameters of the emotional body - with just enough mental body suggestion to initiate the amygdala/hypothalamus-borne fueling of our next attack or defense - pinging each other like medieval puppets on strings while the ultra-dimensional overlords feed on our weaknesses and compliance with their directives. And we think they're our thoughts. That our patterns are our own, individualized, personal. They are not. Clarity of mind as an original state of Being is our birthright.

    The thoughts that constantly run through our minds, seemingly coming from elsewhere, are.

    Thanks for another great thread, 9e9, adding to the collection of such that have been percolating here in recent weeks. This is indeed, as Don Juan stated, the topic of topics. It is a credit to the site that we have been able to reach a space where such a disturbing topic can be discussed rationally and consistently without the emotional disruptions that we had come to get used to in years past.

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    Default Re: The Cosmic Predators - a Question for Avalonians

    This is a great thread, Krystian, opening up for those of us newer to this type of research (only a couple of years in my case) these topics and various possible interpretational approaches to them. I have recently been looking into John Lamb Lash's 'Not In His Image' and Mauro Biglino's 'The Book That Will Forever Change Your Ideas About the Bible', and a bigger-picture perspective is emerging which makes sense, one very much in tune with the quote you gave. Maybe time to revisit Carlos Castaneda, after years ago reading him in a slightly different context.

    Amidst all the huffing and puffing in today's world, to-ing and fro-ing, running in all directions shouting 'we're all screwed' (a quote by one well-known UK interviewer and researcher at the end of his conference speech which made me laugh so loud), it's helpful to stand back a little and let the broader picture emerge.

    M

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    Canada Avalon Member Daughter of Time's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Cosmic Predators - a Question for Avalonians

    I've read all of Castaneda's works and I remember reading those words in one of his books. It was a long time ago so I'd almost forgotten.

    Recently I was reminded of those words by David Icke who, in one of his videos, quoted Castaneda on the cosmic predators.

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