A documentary more powerful than Loose Change ... blows the lid off the Inside Job!

[Zook]

Good Morning Avalon,

Posted by Ty (here)
Let me first apologize for the tone of my prior post. While I don't apologize for the sentiment I think it could have been stated perhaps less offensively. So apologies for that.

The best apology is a sincere counterargument. So far I have not seen that from you, Ty. What more do you want me to say?

At any rate, I see we're making progress. We've gone from irrefutable proof to at least now you admit you don't know what happened.

You must have (deliberately) misunderstood me. My statements amount to this: there is irrefutable proof that the Northside jetliner could not have crashed into the Pentagon. So we have not made progress. You continue to present distorted arguments. Nobody (outside the top-level masterminds that carried out the 9/11/2001 attacks) knows what happened at the Pentagon. At best, we use facts, logic, and this slight but important process called deduction.

To cling to the 13 northern witnesses at the expensee of the 100+ southern witnesses baffles me. 4 of them support the southern witnesses - Sean Boger originally said he saw the plane hit the Pentagon, The cab driver, according to the supplemental video says he saw the plane hit the pole that crashed through his windshield, Robert Turcio followed the plane until it disappeared before the fireball erupted, Terry Morin watched the plane until the tail disappeared then saw a flash he assumes was it hitting the lightpole.

This is just more prevarication on your part. I myself argued that all the Northside witnesses (that were in a position to see the fireball) believed they saw the jetliner crash into the Pentagon! So your attempt to divide the Northside witnesses from the Southside witnesses on the basis of crash vs flyover ... is bogus. The Northside witnesses (I'm now speaking directly to those with an IQ higher than a helium balloon) are important not for what they witnessed or assumed hit the Pentagon ... but what they witnessed heading towards the Pentagon and where they place this flying object (e.g. Northisde of Citgo). Period.

It's simple really. A tale of two citizenry. The Northside citizen and the Southside citizen. All the Northside citizens are credible and compelling, bar none, and precisely because all they were asked to do is to recall where they saw the plane in the air as it approached the Pentagon (and for the last witness, as it left the Pentagon airspace). Most of the Southside witnesses are credible enough, but their testimony is less than compelling because it is based on assumption (e.g. they saw the plane approach, saw the huge fireball, and immediately assumed that the plane had crashed into the Pentagon). Of the remaining Southside witnesses, e.g. those who went into various detail about the plane hitting the Pentagon (one even claimed to have seen the jetliner cartwheel into the Pentagon!) ... these explicit witnesses can be impeached (intellectually) and should be impeached (legally) for obstructing justice.

FWIW, there is a parallel tale of two citizenry. The credible witnesses and the incredible witnesses. All Northside and the majority of Southside witnesses are credible. However, a substantial number of Southside witnesses are incredible. To wit, your list of 100+ witnesses have a substantial number of liars. Yet you appear not to care, as evidenced by the presentation and promotion of lying witnesses in the duty of your argument. That speaks to your integrity, Ty.

Perhaps you didn't read my earlier post where I stated that quantity is a poor substitute for quality? But perhaps you did and are not man enough to admit it.

The math is relatively straightforward: 100+ witnesses without quality < 13 witnesses with quality



ps: My admonitions wrt quantity/quality extend to EWO's choice of websites, as well. His websites are mostly proven disinformation sites.

[Fred259]

Good Morning Transdimensional Bean Pod,

I enjoyed reading your report and agree with your comment about the many witnesses and statements produced that they “saw a plane” . I agreed.

However you must understand it wasn’t a real plane they saw rather a Hologram, and they and the American people slowly but surely are waking up to the reality of the living nightmare that’s just around the corner.

Ordinary law-abiding, hard working, church going, descent and honorable Americans by the tens of millions, what you call “Main Street” fell for your government sponsored trickery, and in the fullness of time the government will fall as a consequence of this trickery.

Power back to the people. Restore your battered Constitution.

I am not an American, but I have to say it’s mind numbing when we read reports over here in England about the destruction of your once great and successful country.

Reports like "the shelves in Wal-Mart are empty of ammo". Indeed they are.

The shelves in Wal-Mart are empty of ammo, transferred to the shelves of the people which are loaded with ammo.

In this thread we are exposing the crooks and criminals within your government. The British Government was very much part of this crime syndicate but that’s another subject.

The American people were tricked and fooled, what they thought was an American Airlines Boeing 767 flying low into the West wall as all the eye witnesses have said, was a Hologram.

It’s convenient to blame 9/11 on Muslims. They need to have bad guys in this trickery, rather they were the patsies.

If you think this is all wrong, stop and ask yourself, “Why are the shelves in Wal-Mart empty of ammo?

[Zook]

Good Morning Good Fred,

Posted by Fred259 (here)
Good Morning Transdimensional Bean Pod,
I enjoyed reading your report and agree with your comment about the many witnesses and statements produced that they “saw a plane” . I agreed.
However you must understand it wasn’t a real plane they saw rather a Hologram, and they and the American people slowly but surely are waking up to the reality of the living nightmare that’s just around the corner.
Ordinary law-abiding, hard working, church going, descent and honorable Americans by the tens of millions, what you call “Main Street” fell for your government sponsored trickery, and in the fullness of time the government will fall as a consequence of this trickery.
Power back to the people. Restore your battered Constitution.
I am not an American, but I have to say it’s mind numbing when we read reports over here in England about the destruction of your once great and successful country.
Reports like the shelves in Wal-Mart being empty of ammo. Indeed they are.
The shelves in Wal-Mart are empty of ammo, transferred to the shelves of the people which are loaded with ammo.
In this thread we are exposing the crooks and criminals within your government. The British Government was very much part of this crime syndicate but that’s another subject.
The American people were tricked and fooled, what they thought was an American Airlines Boeing 767 flying low into the West wall as all the eye witnesses have said, was a Hologram.
It’s convenient to blame 9/11 on Muslims. They need to have bad guys in this trickery, rather they were the patsies.
If you think this is all wrong, stop and ask yourself, “Why are the shelves in Wal-Mart empty of ammo?

While I agree with most of what you write here, Fred, I'm not convinced by the holograph argument. My basic question is this: can a hologram/holograph produce sound energy? Many witnesses (even the credible ones) recount hearing the sound of the jetliner. Would like to hear more about this aspect of the holograph argument.



ps: Remember, the last of the CIT video witnesses saw a jetliner leaving the immediate Pentagon airspace after the fireball and explosion. If it was an actual hologram approaching and putatively crashing into the Pentagon; then there would be no need for a flyover. Indeed, a flyover would be antithetical to the purpose of a staged apparent crash into the Pentagon. For that reason alone, I must conclude that it was a physical flyover, not a holographic one.

ps2: Some may ask: why a flyover at all? Good question. The most likely explanation, IMHO, is that a real jetliner could not have manouevred the Southside attack profile which was necessary to take out the Pentagon's accounting offices. Only a missile or something that fits the actual attack profile can be considered. But a jetliner is, indeed, necessary to fit the neoArabian tale of Osama bin Laden and the Nineteen Saudi subsheikhs. If a hologram can be excluded (for the reason the last CIT video witness seeing a jetliner leave the scene of the crime) ... then the only scenario that fits all the data ... is a physical jetliner flyover coupled with a projectile matching the Southside attack profile (which culminates in the destruction of the Pentagon's accounting offices).

ps3: Humble opinions all around.

[Fred259]

You must have (deliberately) misunderstood me. My statements amount to this: there is irrefutable proof that the Northside jetliner could not have crashed into the Pentagon. So we have not made progress.

Correct, you cannot argue against this TY the angle is at least 40 and perhaps as much as 60 degrees off. It’s impossible for the North side aircraft to fit in the hole.

You are trying to put a square peg in a round hole! On this basis it's impossible, it can only be concluded it went over the pentagon.

ps: My admonitions wrt quantity/quality extend to EWO's choice of websites, as well. His websites are mostly proven disinformation sites.[/QUOTE

]

EYES WIDE OPEN choice of websites, you say, come come Zook stop being so diplomatic.

The websites and reports are utter nonsense .

These are forged documents. Period.
They spew out over the internet all very convincing papers and discussion documents all based on utter rubbish / garbage.

This is pure theatre, keep them coming EWO, I cancelled going out with friends over the weekend your “Official Documents” were more entertaining!

Here is one of them.

Now pay attention everyone this is an “official document” Be Serious Be Sober.


Herewith the report:



“Enhanced GPS service (WAAS) now in use by the U.S. commercial aviation industry and activated 13 months prior to the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, provided virtual aerial navigation corridors only 243 wide and a 95% confidence that an aircraft's true position will fall within such a corridor .


Fact. This is a forged statement within a document. It’s a copy and paste job to support the inside job. You don’t need any technical knowledge and understanding, you just need to be able to read.


• The statement says “Only 243 wide” 243 what, feet , meters, boiled eggs.? Any engineer, scientist or academic writing this report on aircraft navigation would NEVER EVER leave out what he was referring too.


Then we have this ridiculous statement with “95% confidence”.

95% of what?

What they are talking about is aircraft flying along an airway and with this new “super duper” system 95% of the aircraft will be on the airway and 5% will be ??? (It doesn’t say)

So. Stop. Think.

Something like 2,000 aircraft per day cross the Atlantic. With the all new all singing dancing system according to them, 95% will have no problem with 5% having issues with navigation or putting it bluntly getting lost according to this report. That’s 100 aircraft lost per day, does this sound right to you? NO.


Why so, because its FORGED.


Fact - What the GPS system provides is “99.8% accuracy 95% of the time”.


Does that now sound a bit more reasonable? However while inserting the “243” FORGERY they also deleted the 100% which is the most important part of the original report, and left the 95% because that sounded impressive, leaving the whole report looking like a complete dog’s breakfast.


So what’s this 243 FORGERY, what is this all about?


Remember we are talking about navigational airways.


Airways in Europe are 10nm wide or 60,800 feet WIDE!
Airways in the US are 8nm wide 48,640 feet WIDE (minimum)


So what is “243” ?


They Think, Think, Think Think, and Brainstorm Brainstorm, then they go Ahhhhh and Google the dimensions of the WTC Ahhh they say ohhhhh LOOK !, lets change the figures from tens of thousands of feet to 243 whatever it was supposed to be feet meters or boiled eggs, they just forgot to tell you .


So what is going on here. the document in question relates to a joint partnership between the US Canadian and European governments on matters relating to air navigation corridors under “FANS” (Future Air Navigation Systems).


This dates back to 1981, with implementation starting around 1991 and has nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11 other than these criminals have obtained a copy of the document, which they FORGED to support the criminal acts committed on 9/11.

Americans slaughtering Americans. God forbid.



Now, EYES WIDE OPEN.


1) Either you have no idea what you are doing, in which case stop facilitation and spreading these forged documents and promoting then on radio talk shows. OR


2) You do know what you are doing and you are facilitating and spreading this poison.


3) The consequences of this whole abomination arrive daily by C-17 at Dover AFB Delaware in the shape of caskets 5,000 plus and counting. Dead American servicemen and women. That’s 5,000 plus and counting broken and torn families who’s lives will never ever be the same. Are you utterly insane?


4) Post back to this thread I demand your answer.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

YOU DEMAND MY ANSWER? YOU DEMAND? WHO ON EARTH DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?

If you really want an answer, we could have just continued our debate about it. Instead, you have resorted to insinuations about me. (I am a disinfo artish blah blah spreading poison, that I am insane blah blah) Do you really think this way of directing your anger at me is progress or will convince me of your point of view? No. the opposite in fact has just happened. You have alienated me and I feel under attack. I have done nothing wrong here. Just posted my opinon.

Also for the record, I already explained I have nothing to do with the radio show but I guess you ignored/missed that. I posted it because I thought it would be interesting. Instead, it’s thrown back in my face. And what about my points regarding why CIT have not put their work in for peer-review. If their theory is sound, then they have nothing to fear. - I notice nobody addressed that one!

Posted by Fred259 (here)

EYES WIDE OPEN choice of websites, you say, come come Zook stop being so diplomatic.

The websites and reports are utter nonsense .

These are forged documents. Period.
They spew out over the internet all very convincing papers and discussion documents all based on utter rubbish / garbage.

This is pure theatre, keep them coming EWO, I cancelled going out with friends over the weekend your “Official Documents” were more entertaining!

Oh, and what document did I post that was forged? I don’t remember posting a document. TY posted some documents. Not me. For one who is hot on getting their facts straight, I am surprised you made this error. Better look before you leap.

Oh and zook, proove to me who and waht sites exacly in the 9/11 truth movemnt is disinfo. This means more than your opinion.

Anyway, like I said, the tone here has become very condescending against those that don’t think hologram’s or flyovers had anything to do with it. CIT did the same thing when their work was criticised as did John Lear. Its the same pattern here. Its shameful.

I leave this thread as dismayed as I found it. Its a shame as I thought it was going pretty well.

Whichs help the most ? What has the best chance of getting a new investigation going?...

Speculation about hologrammes? (ANSWER IS NO BY THE WAY!).
or this:
http://buildingwhat.org/
and this:
911datasets.org

Its pretty obvious. these both have the backing of the family members. Thats the ones I choose to be involved with and support. If you think hologrammes is the best way, then good luck to you. But I see it as pointless with regards to opening a new investigation.

[Transdimensional Bean Pod]

The holograms theory?

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to even engage that one. This EXACTLY why nobody takes us seriously.

[Zook]

Afternoon EWO,

Posted by EYES WIDE OPEN (here)
[...]
Oh and zook, proove to me who and waht sites exacly in the 9/11 truth movemnt is disinfo. This means more than your opinion.
[...]

Your websites in message #150 of this thread:

beginExcerpt

To Con a Movement: Exposing CIT's PentaCon 'Magic Show'
http://911review.com/articles/ashley/pentacon_con.html

Summary and Analysis of "National Security Alert" by Chris Sarns
http://csarnsblog.blogspot.com/

Shinki and Ed Paik Accounts vs. CIT Methods by Erik Larson
http://911reports.wordpress.com/2010...s-cit-methods/

Dawn Vignola’s Account vs. CIT’s Methods by Erik Larson:
http://911reports.wordpress.com/2010...y-erik-larson/

The Pentagon Attack: What the Physical Evidence Shows
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/index.html

ERROR: 'Engine Parts From the Pentagon Crash Don't Match a 757'
http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/turbofans.html

A Critical Review of ‘The PentaCon - Smoking Gun Version’
http://arabesque911.blogspot.com/200...oking-gun.html

Did any of you actually read this brand new paper I already posted? I dont recall anyone addresing its CONTENT.
http://journalof911studies.com/volum...timeter_92.pdf

end


My claim: most of your chosen websites are proven disinformation websites.


The following website exposes both Victoria Ashley and Jim Hoffman as disinfo agents forthwith known as stooges:
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2010...ctoria-ashley/

The Third Stooge (to be confused with The Three Stooges, I must insist) Erik Larson - who confirms Northside approach and still believes Flight 77 hit Pentagon! At this point, one has to wonder about the education system more than its mind-numbed graduates:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/CIT/index...opic=1013&st=0

Then there's the stooge apprenticeship of Chris Sarns which can be exposed here: http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/2502

Michael Wolsey and 911blogger.com: The Anatomy Of A Stooge and a Stage:
http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/2875


Lastly, there is the JONES website. (Journal Of Nine Eleven Studies). I'm not sliding this website off the sapient slope just yet. I still respect Steven Jones and his thermite/thermate contributions (Indeed, I think he is being played by the stooges).



ps: So, EWO, every one of your websites is a proven disinfo website except perhaps the JONES website. I think that validates my claim above. And it's more than one man's opinion. The stooges indict themselves with their own words and hypocrisies ... and outright lies.

ps2: I'm still handing you a rescue branch if you want to extricate yourself from the quagmire. My advice: take it.

ps3: The CIT is the genuine article. But most people who have seen the video can acertain that for themselves. They certainly can understand the import of Lloyd's virtual confession. Which begs the question: is English a second or third language with those that make baseless assertions of a jetliner crashing into the Pentagon ... an assertion most forcefully disproven by the discontinutiy between the dynamic Northside jetliner approach profile and the observed static damage profile at the Pentagon?

[Fred259]

[QUOTE=EYES WIDE OPEN;107640]YOU DEMAND MY ANSWER? YOU DEMAND? WHO ON EARTH DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?

If you really want an answer, we could have just continued our debate about it.

You say we should have continued a debate?

On what may I ask a load of forged documents?


I don’t need to convince you, and I don’t care if you remain unconvinced. It’s not a matter of discussion or debate.


You have taken documents that related to FANS (Future area Navigation System) published by the UK CAA and the US FAA in 1981…. 30 years ago, chopped and changed the whole document and moved an airway that is 48,000 feet WIDE and reduced this to "243" just because it fits the dimension of the WTC. It’s a complete abomination.

Also for the record, I already explained I have nothing to do with the radio show

Resistance Radio Post
Eyes Wide Open 19th January 2011 13.19GMT Post No #149
You wrote this -


I recommend people in this thread listen to this. Its on Thursday. Or you can get an mp3 straight after...

On this week's "9/11 In Context" show, which airs Thursday, January 20, at 3pm ET, I will interview researcher Aidan Monaghan, who has investigated the 9/11 flights in great detail with important results. Aidan has also filed a wide range of FOIA requests from government agencies and filed lawsuits seeking information related to the 9/11 attacks. Today's discussion will focus on Aidan's impressive research into the autopilot technology available for 757s and 767s at the time of the attacks, contradictory black box information provided by government agencies, and other unusual circumstances related to the flights.



So having told the Forum that “ I will be interviewing Aidan Monaghan” I thought Great Eyes Wide Open has a radio show, and I posted this in reply for you to discuss on your show and a suggestion you ask John Lear on as well…. Remember..

1. Wonderful stuff Eyes Wide Open, this is impressive, I'm looking forward to the show, we could be getting somewhere now.

Can you put up the number so we can call in?

I was wondering if you would consider inviting your friend John Lear onto the show. John and Aidan could have a good go at it and at least you would get some balance. You need to be the anchorman, but make sure John doesn’t steal the show, you know what he’s like. At the very least John would be able to tell you, if Aidan is talking horse pucky or not.

Another thing, its just a suggestion but you don’t want to be going on live radio broadcasting to the world and making irresponsible comments do you, so I was wondering before you start talking about “autopilot technology” and flight directors coupled with GPS to ACARS and all the sexy toys in his write-up, it's quite important that these Muslims actually knew what they were doing, agreed?Would it be possible therefore to ask Aiden about the basics, before he comes on the show like the following:

The pilots licence number and country of issue. (i.e. US, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, etc)Total flying hours, and the number of hours in the previous 30 days prior to 9/11.(Very important)
The date of the B767 training course (i.e. classroom training)The date of the Muslims last simulator / IFR check ride.

I know it’s a lot but it quite important because we need to establish they actually knew what they were doing with this kit. Even if we just get the licence number and country of issue that would be great…

Good Luck. Remember what they told Bill “They are smoking cigars drinking scotch and laughing at us”





Then you came back groveling oops Ahhhh actually

Whoops! I should have made clear I am not the host. I posted this from their site. Apologies for giving the wrong impression. My fault! I feel silly now.

I think the number is on the site somewhere. I am sure they will give it out as some point to.

I am just a humble research librarian. I could never present in a million years.

I have enough problems talking in front of a bunch of noisy students where I work.

Good

So now we are getting somewhere.
1) You admit “ I feel silly now”
2) I could never present in a million years.
3) I have enough problems talking in front of a bunch of noisy students where I work.
4) You & Aiden Monaghan know Zero about Autopilots so whay are you posting these Forged documents about impressive research into the autopilot technology available for 757s and 767s at the time of the attacks, contradictory black box information provided by government agencies,
5) You cant even cut and paste the forged documents correctly !!




You say “I posted it because I thought it would be interesting”


My Reply No you posted it because you and Monaghan know its forged and you want to spider the web with all this utter rubbish.All these documents on this website are FORGED. But as I said above you cant even cut and paste properly which is why its so obvious.



Oh, and what document did I post that was forged?

http://www.aerospaceweb.org this is scam disinformation site. If you want pictures of planes for the children’s bedroom click here.

Aerospace web - Greg Alexander - Former Test Pilot – Was this the man who wrote saying that Ground effect didn’t matter and then forged the document. Greg Alexander – is not a former test pilot he probably doesn’t even exist.

Aerospace web - Aeron J Brown – An impressive CV, but why would someone with all these qualifications want to be associated with a scam 9/11 disinformation site. Probably fake just like the website.

Aerospace web - Douglas T Jackson – Aeronautical Engineer. Another impressive CV, but again why would an aeronautical engineer want to work on this site when they don’t know what’s in the photo “is it a turbine or maybe a compressor or a disc”. And comments like “this goes inside the engine”!

Aerospace web Jeff A Scott - Aerospace Engineer – This man is a joker. It was Jeff who looked at the combustion chamber casing and said “It has 6 holes which is where the fuel goes”

Total rubbish. It was the casing he was talking about. Combustion chambers the same shape, but larger than an American football or a Rugby ball and these are contained within the chamber. The wreckage shown was the casing that contains the combustion chambers units. The holes are cooling holes not fuel holes.

Bottom Line He doesn’t know what a combustion chamber is.

Aerospace Web - Molly Swanson – Computer Scientist – Why would this women want to be associated with this scam site.

Aerospace Web-Dr Anton VanderWyst - Anton previously conducted research at the NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory. Really I suggest Anton you get your name from this site. It doesn’t look good on the CV.

Aerospace Web -Matthew C Walker - Matt Walker is a mechanical engineer who specializes in thermodynamics, combustion, and fluids. . So why the problem with the combustion chamber photo – This man is the pro ?

Aerospace Web -Justine A Whiteman – Retired astronomer – get your CV from here you don’t want to be associated with these scam artists.

Aerospace Web -Dr. Joe Yoon - has earned degrees in physics and aerospace engineering in addition to his doctorate in electrical engineering – ditto - bad site this Joe, did they steal your CV or something.

Aerspaceweb.org This is an example of the sort of question they have on the site. (They do this to impress you)

Question. What is the speed of sound on Mars? (ie what is Mach 1 on Mars ?)


Ask yourself, who is calling in and asking a question like that?

When you have collected yourself from the floor in laughter,

They attempt to answer it !

Then they give two charts that I wouldn’t recommend.


Chart I Mach 1 vs. altitude in English Units on Mars.
Chart 2 Mach 1 vs. altitude in Metric Units on Mars

No aeronautical engineer would post a reply like this.

What are English Units? Metric units of what?

If you are planning a trip to mars and are concerned about Mach 1, call Dr Pete Peterson and he will be able to assist.

Anyway, like I said, the tone here has become very condescending against those that don’t think hologram’s or flyovers had anything to do with it. CIT did the same thing when their work was criticised as did John Lear. Its the same pattern here. Its shameful.

EYO. No one is criticising you work but when you take documents and start telling lies and producing Forged documents expect to get caught out…

Whichs help the most ? What has the best chance of getting a new investigation going?...

Speculation about hologrammes? (ANSWER IS NO BY THE WAY!).
or this:
http://buildingwhat.org/
and this:
911datasets.org

You are in no position to make that judgement. Funny that’s what John Lear said Holograms, don’t you remember?

Its pretty obvious. these both have the backing of the family members. Thats the ones I choose to be involved with and supp

You are not the least bit interested in the family members. Its best you stay away from them!

[Teakai]

Posted by Transdimensional Bean Pod (here)
The holograms theory?

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to even engage that one. This EXACTLY why nobody takes us seriously.

And who could blame you,Transdimensional Bean Pod, when a great many people have sacrificed thinking and reason on the altar of public opinion?

The company may not be very interesting - but there's plenty of it.

[Teakai]

Posted by Zook (here)
Good Morning Good Fred,



While I agree with most of what you write here, Fred, I'm not convinced by the holograph argument. My basic question is this: can a hologram/holograph produce sound energy? Many witnesses (even the credible ones) recount hearing the sound of the jetliner. Would like to hear more about this aspect of the holograph argument.

Hi Zook, possibly LRAD (long range acoustic device) was used - or something similar.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=k7r-V6rDOpA

[Fred259]

Posted by Zook (here)
Good Morning Good Fred,



While I agree with most of what you write here, Fred, I'm not convinced by the holograph argument. My basic question is this: can a hologram/holograph produce sound energy? Many witnesses (even the credible ones) recount hearing the sound of the jetliner. Would like to hear more about this aspect of the holograph argument.



ps: Remember, the last of the CIT video witnesses saw a jetliner leaving the immediate Pentagon airspace after the fireball and explosion. If it was an actual hologram approaching and putatively crashing into the Pentagon; then there would be no need for a flyover. Indeed, a flyover would be antithetical to the purpose of a staged apparent crash into the Pentagon. For that reason alone, I must conclude that it was a physical flyover, not a holographic one.

ps2: Some may ask: why a flyover at all? Good question. The most likely explanation, IMHO, is that a real jetliner could not have manouevred the Southside attack profile which was necessary to take out the Pentagon's accounting offices. Only a missile or something that fits the actual attack profile can be considered. But a jetliner is, indeed, necessary to fit the neoArabian tale of Osama bin Laden and the Nineteen Saudi subsheikhs. If a hologram can be excluded (for the reason the last CIT video witness seeing a jetliner leave the scene of the crime) ... then the only scenario that fits all the data ... is a physical jetliner flyover coupled with a projectile matching the Southside attack profile (which culminates in the destruction of the Pentagon's accounting offices).

ps3: Humble opinions all around.

Sorry Zook for the delay in responding to your post.

The question is was it a Hologram?

The answer is we don’t know.

What we do know is that Hologram technology is starting to come out and being made available in the commercial sector so its reasonable to conclude that they have had this technology for around 15-20 years given that the military industrial complex are at least 20 years ahead of what we know.

So I see this as a process of elimination.

Was it Osama and the band of 19 with box cutters? I think not!

So who was flying the aircraft? The answer is it was a paper exercise. The south tower 767 was up for lease in 2003 with the hull parked in Arizona, as a whitetail. When questions were asked it disappeared. The hull value of the 4 aircraft could be circa 350-400 million USD.

The video of the WTC aircraft was provided to the networks.

The buildings were destroyed by explosives and “new weapons” is perhaps the best term to use.

This then leaves two Options. Remote Control or Holograms.




Remote Control.

The twin tower aircraft B767 do have this capability but the Pentagon B757 aircraft does not commercially but may have been modified. However the word “remotely” in this context is misleading as the system was designed to recover an aircraft from altitude following an incident. It would be wrong to think of this in the same context as a child’s remote control aeroplane for example.

Many now consider the loss of EgyptAir 990 a B767 on 31 October 1999 a full 2 years ahead of September 11 as part the 9/11 event.
Eastern US Oceanic traffic flying to Europe and beyond would normally route towards Nova Scotia, 70N, and Scotland before routing into Europe.

Therefore departing traffic out of JFK must pass close to Cape Cod.

EgyptAir 990’s dive into the sea east of Cape Cod took place in three phases, a plunge from 33,000 feet down to 16,000 feet, followed by a sudden rise back up to 24,000 feet, and then a final plunge into the Atlantic leading to the loss of all souls. Included in the passenger manifest were over 30 Egyptian military officers; among them were two brigadiers-general, a colonel, a major, and four other senior air force officers.

EgyptAir 990 lost its transponder towards the bottom of its first dive. It is only because the aircraft was an object of scrutiny on the part of the Air Force antennas at Riverhead, Long Island, and Truro, Cape Cod, that we know about the last two segments of flight the sudden rise and the final fall.

What other transmitters were observing EgyptAir 990, and what other transmitters were communicating with one another in the vicinity of EgyptAir 990, are questions that need to be answered.

A number of military training zones are located in and around Cape Cod. In addition on the aeronautical chart, the area near Truro, Cape Cod, has a printed warning: "CAUTION: USAF (US Air Force) PAVE-PAWS Radar Hazardous to Aircraft within 1 nm (nautical mile).
"PAVE-PAWS” stands for "Precision Acquisition Vehicle Entry-Phased Array Warning System." The system covers an area from Clear Alaska, to RAF Fylingdales Yorkshire, England, to Cape Cod, to Beale AFB California and back to Clear Alaska.PAVE-PAWS is operated by US Space Command as part of a missile warning and space surveillance system.

Military and commercial (civilian) aircraft must share the same airspace, however commercial traffic is restricted from military training zones when active. These training zones are marked on the aeronautical chart. It’s standard practice worldwide to route commercial traffic through restricted military training zones when they are not active, during weekends for example, or when the area is promulgated by air traffic control as inactive.

The initial departure clearance provided and flight plan routed the aircraft east and clear of the military training zones. However once airborne and following an update from the military controller on the basis that the military training area was not active the commercial air traffic controller would route the aircraft through this dead military airspace. This is what happened with Flight 990 passed close to Cape Cod.


Here are the four facts we know.


1) 3 minutes after reaching cruise altitude 33,000 the plane’s autopilot disconnected.
2) The plane went into a sudden steep dive.
3) The two engines turned off.
4) The elevators on the plane’s tail, what the Americans call horizontal stabilizers changed life form and became asymmetric stabilizers. I’m serious. This is unheard of.

The aircraft had started its journey in Los Angeles to Cairo with a stop in New York. The LA to JFK flight was fine. The departure and climb from JFK was also fine. The problems all started when they got into the cruise.

Remember this all happened two years prior to 9/11 and many now think that while in the vicinity of Cape Cod “experiments took place”. Its possible they took control of the aircraft lost control and then recovered control at 14,000 followed by a climb only and a further loss of control again at 24,000ft.

Then again it has to be said these altitudes are interesting. It’s possible that the crew regained control. Normally and I have to say this is not normal, but following 2 engine flame out at altitude, the immediate loss of AC generators will trip a switch too the emergency and vital bus bars. This provides DC battery power for very essential items like flying controls radios and fire bottles.

The engines can’t be started at high altitude and what’s called drift down must commence. Normally the first officer would fly the aircraft with a shallow nose down attitude leaving the airway at 45 degrees so you don’t bump into the one below!

The captain would handle the emergency with the priority being to get the auxiliary power unit started. This would then restore AC power and must be ready for starting the main engines at the 2 engine relight altitude for B767 which I don’t know but is probably be around 22-18,000.

My gut tells me the crew did this they probably had them both going by 14,000 and climbed back to 24,000 feet. How else could they get from 14-24,000ft. Something happened at 24,000 and that was the end tragically.

I think that TPTB had a go at this and they researched it but probably decided that it was way so dangerous, (not that they seem to care much), but it was quite important that the towers fell.

Ha Zook sorry silly me, I nearly forgot It should be noted that the air traffic controller responsible for Nantucket sector and Flight 990 was Pete Zalewski. I was also noted that a Pete Zalewski was also on duty on September 11th 2001 and was active we are told in the control of both aircraft in and around New York.



So we have discounted the Osama factor

We have discounted remote control

Which leaves precious few options.



This is what I think happened at the Pentagon.


Hologram. Whys so? Because Osama and remote control are out of the question.


Hologram. Because the others seem to think a real aircraft entered the Pentagon and at the speeds that everyone seems to talk about the roof of the Pentagon would have been utterly destroyed.
Vast swathes of the internal building would have devastated as those engines would detach and rip through the building with imaginable force destroying everything in its patch. The temp inside the engine will be around 2000 degC, gas going onto the turbines at 2500ft/second and pressure around 150lbs/sq in. All sorts of things would be going on shock cooling, bits flying everywhere and a very big and intense fire. After it was all done they would need crane to lift the engines and the landing gear out, and of course non of that happened.

Reading some of these sites offered up as evidence they talk about seats, cushions and boarding passes no mention of exploding oxy bottles or hot hydraulic oil. Think of it another way what tempt does the wife cook the Sunday roast at and x by 5 ! TY talks about passengers still in seats for goodness sake…LOL

Witness Statement A

A C-130 cargo plane had departed Andrews Air Force Base en route to Minnesota that morning and reported seeing an airliner heading into Washington "at an unusual angle," said Lt. Col. Kenneth McClellan, a Pentagon spokesman. Air-traffic control officials instructed the propeller-powered cargo plane "to let us know where it's going," McClellan said. But, he said, there was no attempt to intercept the hijacked airliner. "A C-130 obviously goes slower than a jet," McClellan said. "There was no way he was going to intercept anything."
The C-130 pilot "followed the aircraft and reported it was heading into the Pentagon," he said. "He saw it crash into the building. He saw the fireball." ... In the days immediately following the Sept. 11 hijackings, the Pentagon had no knowledge of the C-130's encounter, because all reports were classified by the Air National Guard, the Pentagon spokesman said. "It was very hard to get any information out," McClellan said.

I think the C-130 was very much part of the operation.


They closed the road and created the traffic jams.


C-130 had the hologram equipment with the back door down.


Real B767 comes over Arlington, Navy Annex and CITGO creating noise and above all trailing edge vortices but the witnesses’ on the south side see the hologram but not the real aircraft.


They surveyed the site and topography, and created the traffic jam further back to mask the kill.


Key vehicles high sided vehicles may have been parked in key positions. Sitting in the car what would you see. How many times have you done that, heard an accident but can’t see because of the van in front!


Special forces come out from the underpass with shoulder launch missile and INERT warhead fired at pentagon sets of internal explosives. It wasn’t a big bang in military terms.


Special forces cut down lampposts. (That keeps TY happy)


The generator picture is fake. Could have been a damaged generator from Belize Botswana or Baluchistan for all we know.


I witness talks about landing helicopter, carrying the seat cushions and boarding passes, a wheel, a bit of combustion chamber casing, I’m struggling…for parts now ! It reminds me of that show years ago you know Bruce Forsyth & Anthea "The Generation Game" with the mother in law, the Hoover, cuddly toy, picture, duvet set …. Oh didn’t they do well..!

Witness Statement B

I think this is a serious statement – he was perhaps a bit close it happened so fast he can’t comprehend how it happened but he saw it and struggled with his faculties, couldn’t use the phone.

As I came up along the Pentagon I saw helicopters. That's not strange. It's the Pentagon. Then I saw the plane. There were only a few cars on the road, we all stopped. I know I wanted to believe that plane was making a low descent into National Airport, but it was nearly on the road. And it was headed straight for the building. It made no sense. The pilot didn't seem to be planning to pull up anytime soon. It was there. A huge jet. Then it was gone. A massive hole in the side of the Pentagon gushed smoke. The noise was beyond description. ... I called my boss. I had no memory of how to work my cellphone. I hit redial and his number came up. "Something hit the Pentagon. It must have been a helicopter." I knew that wasn't true, but I heard myself say it. I heard myself believe it, if only for a minute. "Buildings don't eat planes. That plane, it just vanished. There should have been parts on the ground. It should have rained parts on my car. The airplane didn't crash. Where are the parts?" That's the conversation I had with myself on the way to work. It made sense this morning. I swear that it did. ... There seems to be no footage of the crash, only the site. The gash in the building looks so small on TV. The massiveness of the structure lost in the tight shots of the fire. There was a plane. It didn't go over the building. It went into the building. I want them to find it whole, wedged between floors or something. I know that isn't going to happen, but right now I pretend. I want to see footage of the crash. I want to make it make sense. I want to know why there's this gap in my memory, this gap that makes it seem as though the plane simply became invisible and banked up at the very last minute, but I don't think that's going to happen.



Other points.


Bill has been told to expect a False Flag from the heavens, so they must have something.

We need to understand Hologram’s; someone will pop out of the woodwork and educate us.

We need to understand the noise, but I’m sure they could create this and modulate it onto the laser. We don’t understand this yet but they will have something.

It’s a bit like the dead Iraqi civilians that were taken to hospital and the Doctors couldn’t find any wounds, no skin burns or ballistic entry no trauma, but very dead. The doctor turned to the TV crew and said “these are new weapons”.

If its not a Hologram, then what is it… we are in unchartered territory !!

PS I’ve prepared this on word, logged on about to post and here is Teakai with the solution told you……… all the way from the dark world down under. Its always a good idea to stay on the north side of tropic Capricorn – you can look over but don’t go much further, they have crocodile soup and buffalo beef..for breakfast..

toodle pip

[Fred259]

Posted by Teakai (here)
Hi Zook, possibly LRAD (long range acoustic device) was used - or something similar.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=k7r-V6rDOpA

Yes I agree well done Teak, now lets think if they are releasing this with police and coast guard now they have something much more advanced that we will find out about in 8-10 years time.

I’m a bit concerned about this prison camp you were talking about on Christmas Island, that’s miles from Aus are we talking about the same island up towards Fiji.

How do they get the prisoners to the island they won’t fly them in.

Why are they doing this, why Christmas Island what about all the vast land in the great black country you know what I mean.

What are ordinary Australians saying about this on the street?

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Posted by Fred259 (here)

Then you came back groveling oops Ahhhh actually

Whoops! I should have made clear I am not the host. I posted this from their site. Apologies for giving the wrong impression. My fault! I feel silly now.

I think the number is on the site somewhere. I am sure they will give it out as some point to.

I am just a humble research librarian. I could never present in a million years.

I have enough problems talking in front of a bunch of noisy students where I work.

Good

So now we are getting somewhere.
1) You admit “ I feel silly now”
2) I could never present in a million years.
3) I have enough problems talking in front of a bunch of noisy students where I work.
4) You & Aiden Monaghan know Zero about Autopilots so whay are you posting these Forged documents about impressive research into the autopilot technology available for 757s and 767s at the time of the attacks, contradictory black box information provided by government agencies,
5) You cant even cut and paste the forged documents correctly !!




You say “I posted it because I thought it would be interesting”


My Reply No you posted it because you and Monaghan know its forged and you want to spider the web with all this utter rubbish.All these documents on this website are FORGED. But as I said above you cant even cut and paste properly which is why its so obvious.

I forgot to post a link to the site at the bottom of my post. I was at work and had little time to make posts. It was an honest mistake. So therefore I must be a disinfo agent somehow in cahoots with the radio presenter? I resent this attack. I dont belive that the jet flew over the petnagon or a hologramme was used. That is my opinon and I posted it. because I disagreed, you decided to call me disinfo. Nice.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

[QUOTE=Fred259;108297]

Posted by EYES WIDE OPEN (here)
YOU DEMAND MY ANSWER? YOU DEMAND? WHO ON EARTH DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?



You have taken documents that related to FANS (Future area Navigation System) published by the UK CAA and the US FAA in 1981…. 30 years ago, chopped and changed the whole document and moved an airway that is 48,000 feet WIDE and reduced this to "243" just because it fits the dimension of the WTC. It’s a complete abomination.

I have done nothing of the sort. I have not chopped and changed anything at all. Another uncalled for accusation.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

[QUOTE=Fred259;108297]

Posted by EYES WIDE OPEN (here)
YOU DEMAND MY ANSWER? YOU DEMAND? WHO ON EARTH DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?




You say we should have continued a debate?

On what may I ask a load of forged documents?


I don’t need to convince you, and I don’t care if you remain unconvinced. It’s not a matter of discussion or debate.


You have taken documents that related to FANS (Future area Navigation System) published by the UK CAA and the US FAA in 1981…. 30 years ago, chopped and changed the whole document and moved an airway that is 48,000 feet WIDE and reduced this to "243" just because it fits the dimension of the WTC. It’s a complete abomination.






Resistance Radio Post
Eyes Wide Open 19th January 2011 13.19GMT Post No #149
You wrote this -


I recommend people in this thread listen to this. Its on Thursday. Or you can get an mp3 straight after...

On this week's "9/11 In Context" show, which airs Thursday, January 20, at 3pm ET, I will interview researcher Aidan Monaghan, who has investigated the 9/11 flights in great detail with important results. Aidan has also filed a wide range of FOIA requests from government agencies and filed lawsuits seeking information related to the 9/11 attacks. Today's discussion will focus on Aidan's impressive research into the autopilot technology available for 757s and 767s at the time of the attacks, contradictory black box information provided by government agencies, and other unusual circumstances related to the flights.



So having told the Forum that “ I will be interviewing Aidan Monaghan” I thought Great Eyes Wide Open has a radio show, and I posted this in reply for you to discuss on your show and a suggestion you ask John Lear on as well…. Remember..

1. Wonderful stuff Eyes Wide Open, this is impressive, I'm looking forward to the show, we could be getting somewhere now.

Can you put up the number so we can call in?

I was wondering if you would consider inviting your friend John Lear onto the show. John and Aidan could have a good go at it and at least you would get some balance. You need to be the anchorman, but make sure John doesn’t steal the show, you know what he’s like. At the very least John would be able to tell you, if Aidan is talking horse pucky or not.

Another thing, its just a suggestion but you don’t want to be going on live radio broadcasting to the world and making irresponsible comments do you, so I was wondering before you start talking about “autopilot technology” and flight directors coupled with GPS to ACARS and all the sexy toys in his write-up, it's quite important that these Muslims actually knew what they were doing, agreed?Would it be possible therefore to ask Aiden about the basics, before he comes on the show like the following:

The pilots licence number and country of issue. (i.e. US, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, etc)Total flying hours, and the number of hours in the previous 30 days prior to 9/11.(Very important)
The date of the B767 training course (i.e. classroom training)The date of the Muslims last simulator / IFR check ride.

I know it’s a lot but it quite important because we need to establish they actually knew what they were doing with this kit. Even if we just get the licence number and country of issue that would be great…

Good Luck. Remember what they told Bill “They are smoking cigars drinking scotch and laughing at us”





Then you came back groveling oops Ahhhh actually

Whoops! I should have made clear I am not the host. I posted this from their site. Apologies for giving the wrong impression. My fault! I feel silly now.

I think the number is on the site somewhere. I am sure they will give it out as some point to.

I am just a humble research librarian. I could never present in a million years.

I have enough problems talking in front of a bunch of noisy students where I work.

Good

So now we are getting somewhere.
1) You admit “ I feel silly now”
2) I could never present in a million years.
3) I have enough problems talking in front of a bunch of noisy students where I work.
4) You & Aiden Monaghan know Zero about Autopilots so whay are you posting these Forged documents about impressive research into the autopilot technology available for 757s and 767s at the time of the attacks, contradictory black box information provided by government agencies,
5) You cant even cut and paste the forged documents correctly !!




You say “I posted it because I thought it would be interesting”


My Reply No you posted it because you and Monaghan know its forged and you want to spider the web with all this utter rubbish.All these documents on this website are FORGED. But as I said above you cant even cut and paste properly which is why its so obvious.



Oh, and what document did I post that was forged?

http://www.aerospaceweb.org

Nowhere in any of my posts did I post that link. Your willingness to paint me as some kind of disinfo artist is blinding you. Once again, ty posted that, I did not. Your anger against those that dont agree with you also does not help your case.

[Teakai]

Posted by Fred259 (here)
Yes I agree well done Teak, now lets think if they are releasing this with police and coast guard now they have something much more advanced that we will find out about in 8-10 years time.

I’m a bit concerned about this prison camp you were talking about on Christmas Island, that’s miles from Aus are we talking about the same island up towards Fiji.

How do they get the prisoners to the island they won’t fly them in.

Why are they doing this, why Christmas Island what about all the vast land in the great black country you know what I mean.

What are ordinary Australians saying about this on the street?

Hi Fred, it is miles from the mainland, but on the other side to what you're thinking about. http://www.geographicguide.com/pictu...onesia-map.jpg

The idea is that once you land on the mainland it gives you certain rights - so, people are stopped before they get to the mainland and taken to straight to Christmas Island.
The public are divided. There are those calling it Australia's guantanamo bay, those who protest and helped people to break out when the detenion centres were on the mainland. Then there are the others who think it's only fair that they wait in the queue and go through the proper channels. But I don't think anyone was happy with all the money that was spent on it.
The majority of Australians, like the rest of the Western world is still under the impression that all is well with the world. Most wouldn't even consider it could be used to lock them up. If they did, I'm pretty sure they'd change their tune.

[modwiz]

[QUOTE=EYES WIDE OPEN;108806]

Posted by Fred259 (here)

Nowhere in any of my posts did I post that link. Your willingness to paint me as some kind of disinfo artist is blinding you. Once again, ty posted that, I did not. Your anger against those that dont agree with you also does not help your case.

Something did not work out here. Please disregard. Have a nice debate guys.

[Fred259]

Posted by Teakai (here)
Hi Fred, it is miles from the mainland, but on the other side to what you're thinking about. http://www.geographicguide.com/pictu...onesia-map.jpg

The idea is that once you land on the mainland it gives you certain rights - so, people are stopped before they get to the mainland and taken to straight to Christmas Island.
The public are divided. There are those calling it Australia's guantanamo bay, those who protest and helped people to break out when the detenion centres were on the mainland. Then there are the others who think it's only fair that they wait in the queue and go through the proper channels. But I don't think anyone was happy with all the money that was spent on it.
The majority of Australians, like the rest of the Western world is still under the impression that all is well with the world. Most wouldn't even consider it could be used to lock them up. If they did, I'm pretty sure they'd change their tune.

I found it South of Java. You are absolutely correct it’s the same here. The government tell the population we need these detention centre’s for immigrants and the locals thinks OK that’s fine because “it’s for immigrants” but they forget when the country is down the pan the immigrants don’t want to come anymore!

And look guess what we have all these purpose built “Prison Camps”, sorry I should say detention centres for immigrants’ only you understand…

Anyway don’t worry about it, we will prevail.. goodnight then

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Posted by Fred259 (here)
You are not the least bit interested in the family members. Its best you stay away from them!

You arrogance is astounding. You know nothing about me and the connections I have to 9/11 family members. Do not presumme to tell me what I think.

[Fred259]

[QUOTE=EYES WIDE OPEN;108806]

Posted by Fred259 (here)

Nowhere in any of my posts did I post that link. Your willingness to paint me as some kind of disinfo artist is blinding you. Once again, ty posted that, I did not. Your anger against those that dont agree with you also does not help your case.

Here is your Post and here is the Link.

Resistance Radio Post

http://www.resistradio.com/forum/4-s...9ic-jan-20#165

This is you - Eyes Wide Open 19th January 2011 13.19GMT Post No #149You wrote this -


I recommend people in this thread listen to this. Its on Thursday. Or you can get an mp3 straight after...

On this week's "9/11 In Context" show, which airs Thursday, January 20, at 3pm ET, I will interview researcher Aidan Monaghan, who has investigated the 9/11 flights in great detail with important results. Aidan has also filed a wide range of FOIA requests from government agencies and filed lawsuits seeking information related to the 9/11 attacks. Today's discussion will focus on Aidan's impressive research into the autopilot technology available for 757s and 767s at the time of the attacks, contradictory black box information provided by government agencies, and other unusual circumstances related to the flights.