Zen Gardner Exposed & Spotlight on Alt Media

[Daozen]

Re: Alex Collier, he is better than most. It was the Andromedans, not the Pleiadeans, BTW. Personally, I think the US Gov should gtfo of people's financial business. If I want to employ a friend to do my accounts, that's my own choice. Is it true you can't even open a restaurant in the US without a license? lol. Living in Taiwan, that seems ridiculous. My area is full of home-kitchens and street food stalls. So personally, I wouldn't hold a past sentence for 'financial fraud' against anyone. The IRS are the biggest frauds in the US. It's true none of his predictions came true, but he was one of the first to talk about the Draco, on record, back in the 1990s, even before Icke, IIRC.

But how would you disinvite anyone in a decentralized marketplace? The large conspiracy forums are *finally*doing a good job policing the contactee circle-jerk (CCJ). Nearly all of them are mutally-validating frauds. Back in 2014, when I started my project, I was sad and surprised that none of them would touch my story with a ten foot barge pole. Especially given my account is far less outlandish than what most of them are pedalling. I never claimed to have left the surface world. But there's a deadly silence surrounding my thread, despite its high view counts. I thought initially it was because I can be a crank, but them I see Space Adventurer Corey Goode acting like a Royal Putz on at least 2 forums, and he still gets validated.

Now I'm relieved that none of these jokers interviewed me, cos all I see is a bunch of liars with their thumbs stuck up each others base chakras.

[boutreality]

Stewart Swerdlow, might we work to prove or disprove this allegation?

I have heard about Swerdlow schemes where he tells female clients they have to have sex with him to be deprogrammed, on the Mysterious Universe (podcast); same allegation on same podcast against Preston Nichols- though in his case I believe it was young men. Info is hard to find; apparently a 30 pg report on Swerdlow, including an account of three women making the "sex-to-deprogram" allegation on the same day, is available through cyberspace cafe, but I don't have ioncube or whatever that is to access the forum.
(I'm asked to install it; can't figure out how to make i work- I'm not so good with the old "glowing typewriter." )

From Post by xythos () at Cult Education Institute:

"Swerdlow has written some more material, notably "The True Reality of Sexuality" upon which Stewart Swerdlow claims that his mind-controlled (and programmed) clients need to be 'deprogrammed' by coercing them to have sex with him. And this applies to both men and women.

His workshops, especially the 'insider's group' are "specifically" and extra 'programmed' to help destroy the Illuminati. In order to be able to join that group, the Expansions member has to cough up $10,000 and is told that s/he is "very important" to help fight the dark powers and the 'take-over of the planet' by alien forces and entities.

His Hyperspace Techniques were stolen from a blind woman when Swerdlow was sitting in jail for embezzlement of funds."

link: https://forum.culteducation.com/read...2,63260,104175

I found a jail record (inmate # included; released in Victoria), but nothing on what he was charged with.

Apparently my Nazis = the New Age thread fell out of popularity? So be it. Like I've always maintained, I'm not worried about being believed.
(-Especially not thinking that I have to be believed in order to be effective, that's the old trapdoor to an impotent -paranoid- hamster wheel.)

Besides, there's Manitds talking to old "Simon Says"!

"...Heard a singer on the radio, late last night, said he's gonna kick the darkness 'till it bleeds daylight... I believe in love." -"God Part II" by U2

[Biff]

More and more it seems that alt media has become a cottage industry of fabulists who tell lurid tales of their allegedly once-depraved lives, like illuminati insiders, or off world adventurers, who are now converts to telling their audiences what they want to believe and making a pile of money in the process, or else just leading a fantasy life.

Too many outlets have become a credulous, agenda-driven media that helps visible-from-space frauds put one over on people who really want to hear an awesome story that titillates with lurid tales of Sin or Summerland, confirm them in their ideological beliefs about their culture war enemies, and tells them how freaking awesome they are.

It's so bad it makes me think I've been had for a long time, believing in contactees and insiders who never prove themselves. I'm kind of over it at this point, and only follow the scene as a curiosity.

[Enola]

Too many fantasists.

[OnyxKnight]

Posted by boutreality (here)
I believe Wilcock claims a "direct-secure-secret" connection to Cobra/BLue Avians etc.
Who's to say he and cohorts did not make this up, given his track record I say it's time we conclude that's more likely than his constant justifications for perpetual false predictions and deflated expectations.
It's why I compare him to the seed-money preachers I was taking about, that's why he does this- there is money to be taken and people to be had.

I may be at least partially guilty for that Blue Avians nonsense Wilcock and Goode started spewing. Though guilty would be a misnomer here I guess. As far as I know nobody else has mentioned them prior to them other than myself. I was the first one who mentioned anything about blue avian aliens back in 2011. Though they had a name for reference - Danago. The term blue avians was a result of English not being my first language, in my native tongue it is close to being aviatic, flying, or floating (the term I was trying to translate in English). Quite a while later did I discover that in English, anything with the word avian relates to birds specifically. Not the sky or air.

Or Simon Parks who answered a question of mine by referencing my own material provided here regarding the planet Tharsos. Nobody other than me has talked about it, and out of the blue he comes up with it and doesn't bring it up ever again, despite the importance it has in the grander scope of things? Not to mention I caught him checking out my posts and my main experiences thread via his profile activity, not long after he logged on to read my question (which means he used the forum search function to look up "Tharsos" here and elsewhere on the net, before answering).

There's also another case where something I said was taken out of context, twisted and added upon, or sometimes even directly quoted, as somebody's original experience or testimony, when in fact wasn't true. Like the case with the Orbs around the Sun of which I've spoken, which many have connected with either the Andromedans or with the KBA variously, and Wilcock and Goode have not stood idly either, and they connected them with their version of the "Blue Avians" as well.

And yet another, where my information about Tau Ceti and Epsilon Eridani in particular was misused as somebody else's experience-based information gather, mainly Sunfire & John Kettler. Most of you will be familiar with at least the latter. Sunfire/Sunvibe later joined Drake and this character called Tanaath and that trio also did dubious things with varied people's information, presenting them as their own, on a radio podcast. Don't remember the host though, I think his name started with M. He was an okay dude from all the things I could deduce. He was just probably with the wrong crowd.

In any case, Sunfire was collecting information from me via Skype and disseminating it on varied blogs and podcasts as her own (I dunno, thinking that perhaps I don't frequent as many alternative media places as most others might?)

Guess what John Kettler, Sunfire (She had/has a different handle here), Simon Parks, and Goode have in common with each other, and with me? I am and they were/are part of this forum! At least at one point in time. Goode even admitted he was going through my posts and thread, when answering somebody's question here, but that he was just "skimming through it", which would be the only true thing he has ever said since if he did pay attention, he would have seen that the blue avian aliens I mentioned are anything BUT avian, when I describe them. But that's what these people do for the most part. They collect information from varied sources and they build a narrative.

They are not interested in hearing somebody out. They are not interested in being truthseekers. They want to be heard themselves, and they want to be truthgivers. To compose their own version of the truth over which they will make money off of. Alternative media gurus have been and always will be, their prime ambition for engaging with this audience.

All of the above is one of the main reasons I have stopped expanding on my experiences and why I have even refused to correct certain errors I have made in the dissemination of the material. And I believe that's the reason why so many others are silent as well, or have given up. Because we see no point. If others are going to just take elements they find appealing from certain sources where the information is provided for free, and construct a story out of that and then sell it to people for money and fame, then drying off the well, at least the portion of it that we individually contribute to, is the most logical action we can make.



And I still blame platform providers for this. Forums aside, I'm talking about a popular media platform, where you present audio-visual information, many eyes stuck on to it. And at the same time presenting people as vetted in being who they claim they are, with no apparent dark history.

[Wide-Eyed]

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by boutreality (here)

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by boutreality (here)
Wilcock .....I compare him to the seed-money preachers I was taking about, that's why he does this- there money to be taken and people to be had.

Fulford too

I couldn't agree more.

these toxic individuals energetically leech from everyone who spends time on their material; I wish more people were aware of how bad things like this are.

The Alt media seems rife with these types.. its sad really.

I heard that he had a role in introducing Fulford back when DW was on about the "trillions" of gold in Asian banks and a lawsuit that would bring a windfall of money to the entire world, or something just as unbelievable.
I wonder what past the two might share.
I googled allegations against Wilcock and they did not come easy.

That must take money, maybe he spends his donations on Google list priority buys; or now that he's on the History channel they buy it for him.

it stinks of CO-INTEL-PRO....... we already know what google is doing to election based searches (hillary bias)... that is CERTAINLY not the only way they skew information..



........the best way to control your subjects information is to BE their source....


I put many Alt "stars" (alex jones, Ron Paul etc..) in this category as well.

in fact, any large scale movement is questionable for me... Those are what is targeted & manipulated/CO-OPed or just taken over.


Lots of discernment tests for us out there..

This is a very good interview from a RESEARCHER not a whistle blower and it had it's own thread started and it gets very little views. Hmmm not very exciting reading researcher-ed stuff I guess . Joseph P. Farrell has a great term he coined for us , and I include myself , as the UFOOLOGY community. His work is all footnoted and done the old fashioned way research and sourced. Boring perhaps but it is pretty thorough, 28 books and counting.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=w4P8Qk9NyA4

[Wide-Eyed]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=w4P8Qk9NyA4

Quote Posted by PathWalker (here)
Thank you for this very important interview, one of the more important and essential interviews for beginners introduction to awakening.

This is definitely to put on the hall of fame for awakening/disclosure material.

The delightful interviewer is subject expert and very intelligent.

Starts listen at 03:10 past commercials.
- Introducing Joseph Farrell and his 25 books
- History brief how he started and why, researching alternative narrative
- The Nazi equivalent to DARPA basis to many modern weapons and arms.
- Referencing the Roswell crash to Nazi technology from Argentina
- Explains the methodology for his research
- Tensor calculus by Gabriel Kron to explain electric engineering, provides mastery on gravity and free energy
- 1944 Nazi created nuclear explosion experiments, but failed with bomb delivery
- Why Nazi did not reverse engineer ET technology.
- Why the Roswell crash narrative is about ET...
- Explain the Nazi in-state in Argentina
- Review Richter nuclear fusion break trough, copied by the USA
- Nuclear explosion yield depends on time and location
- How the Nazi are protected and the secret services + finance + mafia
- President Truman establish the secret finance system, that spawned the ssp and breakaway civilization
- breakaway civilization is a Nazi mafia
- Explain the breakaway civilization finance and interests history
- Nuclear explosion effect cross dimensional, and nuclear tests
- Story about Ben Rich (we found technology to take ET home...) and its implications political and social.
- The cause for secrecy and control
- Closed system science and economy vs Open system
- Elite transition to open system economy
- The point in population reduction and mafia factions model of conflicting agendas
- Intervention of ancient ET (gods) in the elite
- Breakaway civilization aspect for dealing with ET intervention
- Refer to Alex Jones sincerity and connectivity
- Trump connectivity and insider information used to eliminate opponents
- NASA and the EM drive, nuclear reactor size of a soccer ball, explain the worp drive
- Current race to space, is a ledge for smoother technology disclosure
- Elite are preparing the transition to new technologies
- Interplanetary war and the current exopolitical situation
- History of human race genome
- Movies as propaganda
- Nazi Germany founding the 2nd Atlantis
- Speculate Nazi are still in Argentina explains why
- Describe the Nazi inner state in Argentina
- The global Nazi mafia all over the world, beyond state governments
- Russian researcher foretasted the 911 attack.
- Mechanics of the global mafia/cabal
- Gary McKinnon whistleblower and political ramifications
- Electric universe theory and its application
- Introduce his conscious/spirituality to his research and reality
- Conscious and intention interaction with the environment
- Edge of conscious merge into science
- Human destination to the stars
- Elite is aware of and looking for conscious science and black magic
- Self explored conscious path
- Analogical thinking is fundamental
- American RV program, conscious is not connected to body
- Warn and caution from practice of RV and channeling
- Challenge of standard history narrative

Lots of references and leads.


I would suggest this complimentary interview with Franco DeNicola with similar topics:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Qm2Cz8NExco
Great interview of JP Farrell and great job with summary , book mark this ones Avalonians, It's a must listen IMHO

[boutreality]

I very much enjoyed that interview, and enjoy most of Farrell's interviews; most of my links between the Nazis, the NWO and the New Age, are based on Farrell; Peter Levenda and Jim Marrs work. Those three have careers that involve research and have a number of books to prove it. They do the work.

I know my findings are valid but that's only through my experience, I'm not going to do the research to ties it to something all on my own; if I did I'd become a researcher because to me that term means something. I'm not looking to make a career out of my findings, just to communicate them. In my latest thread I sought to tie them to findings by others. I chose Farrell, Levenda and Marrs because of their long standing contributions and how each strives to make clear where the line between their own speculation and what they can prove as fact is.

Onyxknight-
Good point on the Alt Media Personalities sourcing their info from forums like this and repackaging it as original info we must (can only) get from them. In a larger scheme, in a sense of decent people v charlatans, I see it as them falling on their own sword.

[Enola]

I don't understand the appeal of Stewart Swerdlow and obviously dodgy types like that. I can't take Alex Jones seriously, either. I only really like David Icke, he has more of a clean/moral feeling and seems mostly sincere.

But even he must be working under some kind of agenda to be in the position he's in. Especially as he's so good at it and already had a media platform when he started out. It's funny, it's almost like it was decreed that information had to get out and they had to get someone good for the role.

I saw an interview he did like 25 years ago. At the end of the interview he and the host who grilled him looked at each other a bit...friendly. Like they were in the same club. Just my observations.

[Chester]

Alas a post emerged -

Anything that is an obvious current "threat" (in whatever form that threat might take) to those who are far more likely to succumb to that threat (those I refer to as "the vulnerable") is the only concern where I may raise my voice. If their harmful behaviors are of a serial nature I will raise my voice loudly. I will also raise my voice up to those who enable the behavior which, in some cases, could be seen as equal or worse because they know better and have the wherewithal to know better.

It doesn't matter to me if they have become some high profile individual in the alternative community or not. If an individual or group threatens the vulnerable, I will raise my voice (and those who know me know this is true).

Alternatively -

Anyone (or any group) that may have done wrong in their past and who has since done the right thing and has taken serious steps to resolve the issues that generated the unacceptable behaviors - for me - is an inspiration and I encourage them to continue to do the right thing.

I, personally, write no one off. Having said that, I still use my best judgment when assessing the risks I take with any individual. I am still learning each and every day how better to do this. I assess the strength of any current, known threat. I assess the risk with regards to those who may have a checkered past. I measure this with regards to what I feel is a duty – that love and kindness includes giving folks second chances.

Each case is different. In my opinion, there is no blanket ruleset that would cover each and every situation.

Trial and conviction by labeling is perhaps one of the worst behaviors of all and threatens the vulnerable by ensuring the continuation of the dynamic of the very environment that we have today (and have had perhaps for millennia).

If someone with “a past” (probably just about everyone by the way) wishes to share their story... featuring what they did to make positive changes, I am interested in hearing their stories. If they don't, that makes no difference to me regardless of what else they do, specifically regardless of what role they may emerge to play in the alternative community as long as they have achieved a significant resolution to the underlying problems that caused them to act in ways harmful to others and themselves. Especially if they have an exceptional track record ever since they changed their life.

If, in addition, they return to behaviors which are clearly harmful to others, then I may again raise my voice and perhaps far louder than before.

I expect others to do this to me and for me if the same return to unacceptable behavior might happen with me. I would hope my friends would do this if indeed I begin (or return) to behave in ways harmful to others.

Yet I will never condemn anyone for the rest of their lives in ways that prevents them from producing self-redemption and true, lasting positive changes. I certainly cannot do this to their eternal spirit (the individuated being which continues beyond the death of their body)… and I say this with this caveat - if the spirit being exists... (and note: that the individuated spirit's existence is part of my operational assumption set – I just don’t tell others what they should “believe” when it comes to un-provable, other-worldly matters).

The bottom line is that I do not see the death of one's physical body as being a valid delineation point for doing so. So I don't condemn anyone in their current lifetime and I don't condemn anyone beyond their current lifetime. Either of those is playing "god" and we have enough demi-gods already.

As to the risks I would feel comfortable extending with regards to anyone that has a checkered past, I assess those risks on a case by case basis and constantly reassess as time marches on. I take responsibility for the risks I take and sometimes pay for by learning some pretty tough lessons, but when it comes to the vulnerable, that is another matter. I feel I have a duty to call out those who clearly take advantage of the vulnerable.

A final comment - I include myself in the set of folks with checkered pasts. I also still make mistakes though not the kinds of mistakes I made when I was young - clearly harmful to others as well as to myself... for example, mistakes along the lines mentioned by Citizen No2 above.

end of my editorial post.

[boutreality]

Posted by Daozen (here)

But how would you disinvite anyone in a decentralized marketplace? The large conspiracy forums are *finally*doing a good job policing the contactee circle-jerk (CCJ). Nearly all of them are mutally-validating frauds. Back in 2014, when I started my project, I was sad and surprised that none of them would touch my story with a ten foot barge pole. Especially given my account is far less outlandish than what most of them are pedalling.

How's about a link to your thread? It never hurts. And don't take silence as an affront, some people just can't orient themselves the the view. I know my threads aren't coming from anywhere people expect; also I could care less to dedicate the amount of time needed to word them any better- just getting a word out.

Consider your sharing something like how I see mine; making info available to those few that may make actual use of it, and less a "now we have something to talk about." Not to mention the closer to valid it is, the more potentially debilitating it is be to the system they strive to keep in place including the "discount accountability" command.

CCJ! haHA! -That was a nice one.

Sam Hunter-

I'll take you at your word that you did the work and improved yourself.

That's great, might you be using a raw-nerve level of sensitivity based on your own experience and applying it to this thread topic?

We're dealing with a method of operating that has the undeserved support of what has become a market. There's either 1) An agenda orchestrating it, as some here have suggested, or 2) Simply a blatant lack of due diligence that needs to stop if we actually expect truth from Alt Media sources. Citing the previously mentioned self-enforcing paradigm, it's likely both.

[Daozen]

Posted by boutreality (here)

Posted by Daozen (here)

But how would you disinvite anyone in a decentralized marketplace? The large conspiracy forums are *finally*doing a good job policing the contactee circle-jerk (CCJ). Nearly all of them are mutally-validating frauds. Back in 2014, when I started my project, I was sad and surprised that none of them would touch my story with a ten foot barge pole. Especially given my account is far less outlandish than what most of them are pedalling.

How's about a link to your thread? It never hurts. And don't take silence as an affront, some people just can't orient themselves the the view. I know my threads aren't coming from anywhere people expect; also I could care less to dedicate the amount of time needed to word them any better- just getting a word out.

Consider your sharing something like how I see mine; making info available to those few that may make actual use of it, and less a "now we have something to talk about." Not to mention the closer to valid it is, the more potentially debilitating it is be to the system they strive to keep in place including the "discount accountability" command.

CCJ! haHA! -That was a nice one.

The link is here:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...roject-Freedom.

There are a few things I'd change since August 2014, but the information remains as relavent now as it was in 2014. Check the slideshow on grassroots technologies, and think what it would do to the social order if these simple ideas hit critical mass. Iodine, Liposonal Vit C and other nutritional products like magnesium could eventually lose the pharmaceutical cartels billions.

Actually I am fine with the silence, as it pushed me to learn programming. But I wonder why people are always being led to focus on short-term-fear or short-term-hope, and are never encouraged to take the long, slow, steady path.

[Chester]

Posted by boutreality (here)
We're dealing with a method of operating that has the undeserved support of what has become a market.

There's either 1) An agenda orchestrating it, as some here have suggested, or 2) Simply a blatant lack of due diligence that needs to stop if we actually expect truth from Alt Media sources.

or 3) as stated quite well by Bill Ryan in this post here -

The answer is one I'd expect everyone here to understand -- especially after six years.

We all (by and large, with some clear exceptions) simply do the best we can. Everyone does, who has integrity.

We're not the NSA, we don't have mail- and phone-tapping facilities, and we don't have Private Investigators on call. So we have to use our best judgment when someone comes to us and says: "Hey, I have a story." (That's a little glib. The messages we get of that nature are very often way more complex than that. Personally, I reject maybe 95% of them, and they never see the light of day in any form.)

It's always a judgment call, and different personalities make different judgments, for different reasons. Most people reading this will be well aware that Kerry Cassidy and I did not always agree on the credibility of witnesses, by any means. It was to a large degree disagreements about witness credibility that split Camelot, in the end.

It's hard (and rather unfair) to talk about this in general terms. Sometimes, we never met the person claiming to have had important experiences or information, at all, and everything was done remotely. (Maybe, even, a published interview, as in the case of Peter Levenda. I've never met him personally, at all.) On other occasions, we got to know a witness really, really well, over long periods of time, for literally many hundreds of hours, on and off-record, in person, as in the case of Henry Deacon.

If you'd like to ask more specific questions about specific witnesses -- what I knew, what I felt I knew, and the judgments I personally made, and why -- then please do. But your post here sounded like a generalized, unsubstantiated criticism of a lot of well-intentioned (and sometimes dangerous) work, and I'd suggest it was of very limited value.

In fact, it was actually a kind of subtle smear. You know this, and it was neither kind, nor appreciated. I'd have rather more respect if you came out with your own real name, your own real photo, and your own real e-mail address. Maybe, even, the real name of your own real dog.

And, of course, if you did some real interviews with (maybe) real witnesses. Then, as they say, walk a mile (or even a few hundred feet) in the shoes of people who are trying to do real work for the benefit of others.

We take the bullets... not you.

As Daozen pointed out, perhaps those of us who are capable should take some responsibility for our own ability to think critically. In addition, perhaps we should allow others to do so as well. When it comes to cases where the clearly vulnerable are at risk regarding an ongoing threat, maybe we should do what families and friends do for alcoholics / addicts. That being "an intervention." Of course those with experience in these matters also know that the families and friends who do this must be unified.

That is why I called upon some Alt Media researchers/interviewers to unify with regards to Simon so that perhaps he might face up to his issues, get some help and stop being a threat to the vulnerable who get involved with the alternative community.

As for Zen, it is clear (at least to me) that he long ago has done this "work on self" but I emphasize, this is just my opinion. I base this on my impression from the video I cited as well as that I have yet to unearth a single report that says Zen has acted in any way inappropriately since he left the CoG cult 17 years ago. In addition, I am unaware and have yet to find any reports (much less evidence) that he did so when he was part of that cult. Understanding the situation he was in and the power of a cult over an adherent, I can also understand how difficult it may have been to deal with the reality of what was going on yet he did try and change the culture (if his story is true) and eventually he extracted himself and his family.

[boutreality]

Sam Hunter-

I appreciate the feedback, but Bill's overview is not in fact a 3rd option. It's an explanation Bill wrote in response to one inquiry. I never sought to lay blame on Bill. I can't speak for CNo2, but I'm not sure he did either - I think emotions ran high during that interchange without a negative intent on either side, those words do not invalidate the other 2 options.

Your idea above, "an intervention" (for the more gullible of those interested in the Alt Media) is what this thread represents.

[MissMalin78]

We are all seeking the truth and it's very easy to fall into that everybody is truthfull, but it is necessery to do research on you're own and try to see things from many different perspectives. 👍

[Chester]

be warned... monster post to follow

Hi boutreality

You posted -

Posted by boutreality (here)
We're dealing with a method of operating that has the undeserved support of what has become a market.

I appreciate your opinion that the support is undeserved. I don't see it that way in part because if it were not be for the Alternative Media... specifically David Icke and then Project Camelot and most recently this very forum, I most likely would be dead (no exaggeration) or would have sold out my own heart to accept "the big lie/movie" so that I could reconcile remaining functionally alive.

Having said that, there's always room for improvement (both from the information delivery sources as well as those who are among the target market). Perhaps you have some practical ideas which could improve things and if so, it would be good to read them.

You then made the following statement as fact -

Posted by boutreality (here)
There's either 1) An agenda orchestrating it, as some here have suggested, or 2) Simply a blatant lack of due diligence that needs to stop if we actually expect truth from Alt Media sources. Citing the previously mentioned self-enforcing paradigm, it's likely both.

I then posted another possibility (in my response post here) which was presented by someone who actually has the experience to make such a statement. I characterized this as 3) since you left it out.

Here was your reply - (I am separating each sentence yet leaving the entire quote as to retain proper context)

Posted by boutreality (here)
I appreciate the feedback, but Bill's overview is not in fact a 3rd option.

It's an explanation Bill wrote in response to one inquiry.

I never sought to lay blame on Bill. I can't speak for CNo2, but I'm not sure he did either -

I think emotions ran high during that interchange without a negative intent on either side, those words do not invalidate the other 2 options.

Your idea above, "an intervention" (for the more gullible of those interested in the Alt Media) is what this thread represents.

I will begin with this -

Posted by boutreality (here)
I appreciate the feedback, but Bill's overview is not in fact a 3rd option.

First, you chose the word "option," I did not. I presented this as another possible valid explanation (as did Bill) with regards to why for us to expect near perfect vetting by the Alternative Media is quite impractical.

You presented two possible explanations yet presented them as an either/or or both that left no room for additional possibilities. This comes across a bit authoritarian and leaves no room for discussion. My response attempted to expand the possibility set and open up the subject for further discussion.

I found Bill's response reflecting realistic practicality.

In addition, several posts in this thread have emphasized the importance that we (the audience of the Alternative Media, and in some cases, participants in the Alternative Community) have with regards to how we integrate the information presented into our world views. Don't we have responsibility for what we integrate and how that integration manifests?

Yes, this responsibility can be more difficult for those who have various vulnerabilities. My opinion is that information providers and information sources should be called out when it becomes blatantly clear they are becoming harmful to the vulnerable. In rare extreme cases, measures might be taken to isolate a situation that gets out of hand. This may suggest a community wide "intervention" might be something called for. As is evident, the Alternative Community is unregulated (not that I am suggesting it should be) so perhaps there is something to be said for the community acting on behalf of the more vulnerable to shut down a proven serial threat.

In the case of Simon, the situation became extreme and some folks did the right thing and eventually called him out for his repeated unacceptable behavior. Eventually, the reports became so prolific, the odds that the general idea of what was going on (and may still be) was untrue is almost zero percent. Yet since I have mentioned a specific case, I learned a lesson when observing how this particular forum handled the matter. That being the understandable restraint employed by this forum until there was no longer any doubt something needed to be said.

Sadly, it appeared to many (myself in particular) that Simon didn't get the memo and showed no true remorse and for that reason some calls were made to those in the alternative community who feature Simon to stop as Simon had been repeatedly harvesting the vulnerable in the community. Again - this is an extreme and recent (if not still ongoing) situation.

Yet this thread starts with "Zen Gardener Exposed" in the title. Only secondary to that is the "Spotlight on the Alt Media." That this thread is now exploring that spotlight, what concerns me is that too many posts in this thread conflate Simon's situation with Zen Gardener's situation. In addition, the 'trial by internet' of Zen Gardener (where many here have convicted him and condemned the human being he is today such that his contribution to the Alt Community should be halted) is far more unacceptable than some folks make out to be "poor vetting." I then pointed out that if we "hang" (metaphor) all sources because of "a past" we eliminate a significant portion of those who make up the basket of 'experiencers / whistle blowers / witnesses / abductees / defectors / "alt community information sources"' from presenting what they have to offer as many of these folks have checkered pasts.

I would far rather take personal responsibility for how information impacts me than significantly reduce the information by eliminating sources just because of their pasts. This is not a black and white matter. Each case is handled differently and, if an individual's expectations are not met by what they wish with regards to any information provider then perhaps they should get their information elsewhere.

Posted by boutreality (here)
It's an explanation Bill wrote in response to one inquiry.

It's a response made by Bill that covered the entire reality of being an Alternative Media information source. That Bill's response quoted one particular inquiry, does not eliminate its broad application. That you do not see this and instead respond with "It's an explanation Bill wrote in response to one inquiry" is concerning.

Posted by boutreality (here)
I never sought to lay blame on Bill. I can't speak for CNo2, but I'm not sure he did either -

No one I am aware of said you did and no one that I am aware of suggested you did, yet the innuendo found in some of the various posts in this thread (including at least one of the posts made by Citizen No2) is perhaps what prompted Bill to make his response.

Posted by boutreality (here)
I think emotions ran high during that interchange without a negative intent on either side, those words do not invalidate the other 2 options.

Again, no one said that (I certainly did not say the other two possibilities you suggested were invalid). To state this as you have implies this was stated or insinuated. I find this as a pattern in many of your posts and I wish I knew why this is occurring.

So again... all realistic possibilities are valid. Including combinations of possibilities. And this is assuming it is realistic for the tremendously underfunded and under resourced Alternative Media to do much better than they are already doing.

Posted by boutreality (here)
Your idea above, "an intervention" (for the more gullible of those interested in the Alt Media) is what this thread represents.

A call to the Alternative Media to do better vetting is one thing. If that is the primary intent of this thread, I am all for it. But if we are going to make that call, then we should also be ready to provide ideas as to how that can be practically implemented.

I have not read one single idea in this thread that will improve the vetting of information sources brought to the members of the Alternative Community by the Alternative Media.

(opinion) - In this thread I have seen someone metaphorically hung as an example of how the Alternative Media information sources are failing us which in my opinion is no example at all and in my opinion folks should be ashamed of convicting others who have positively changed their life in relation to their pasts of several decades ago.

In fact, folks who condemn others like this are (in my opinion) in their own way being harmful and I say this far more delicately than I would otherwise. How do we expect the world to change when we are led by the same mindset as was behind the Inquisition? (end of opinion)

The undertone I feel from this thread (and I emphasize this is all and only how this thread has impacted me) is one of self-righteousness and unrealistic expectations that so far has offered no solutions to what may not actually be a resolvable "problem."

I, personally, have no issue with justified finger pointing (noting what is justified is subjectively derived) yet to do so while ignoring the reality of resources available for the ideal to manifest while simultaneously offering not one single practical solution suggests (to me) there is the possibility of other agendas being explored here which a thread like this might feed into.

[Citizen No2]

The undertone I feel from this thread (and I emphasize this is all and only how this thread has impacted me) is one of self-righteousness and unrealistic expectations that so far has offered no solutions to what may not actually be a resolvable "problem."

If that's what you are feeling Sam, then that's what you are feeling.

I don't think that sniffing out liars and exposing them is an un-realistic expectation. Whether this is applicable to Don Ferguson I'm not sure, my attention has fallen on to someone else of late.

Self-righteousness? I dunno, I'm just doing what's right for me.


R

[Chester]

Hi Citizen No2, I did not get that self righteous feeling from you (for the record).

[Daozen]

The issue is confusing because a discussion about corruption in the alt media has erupted in a thread about Zen Gardner, who may (or may not) deserve the attention he was given, and definitely doesn't deserve the inflammatory headlines directed at him.

When it comes to the others in the CCJ, we are talking about people who: Have intel/illuminati backgrounds, sell healing devices for over 10 grand, repeatedly give out duff information, mislead people, + cheerlead covert global government. Re: Global Government, we are dealing with an alt media set up to distract and seduce.

Exposing people like that is in no way self-righteousness, IMO. But I agree with Sam we need a framework and concrete ideas, otherwise the conversation will go round in circles.

I have an idea to start tackling these people, based on these videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtW72nT7cYQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1S0oObHT0c

Except the questions will be: "Can you swear you are not taking money from an intelligence agency," "Can you swear you are not working to imposed debt based banking on Earth." etc etc. I would happily sign an oath myself.

Then, respectful open letters asking people to answer questions. i.e. 10 questions for [INSERT WHISTLEBLOWERS NAME]. If 3-4 of us signed each letter, it would carry more weight.

Sam, you also had an idea about 18 months ago about vetting whistleblowers. We discussed it on a different forum.

So what other concrete ideas do people have? The media has gone from dystopian monolith to Wild West free-for-all in 20 years. Now we need frameworks and decentralized standards.

[Mods could maybe snip this discussion into another thread "Honesty in the contactee alt media" or something similar... if it wasn't too much hassle.]

[Daozen]

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by Daozen (here)
I think what you said about soul-tracking, and knowing what people will do in the future is true, but many people miss the fact that there are 'white hat' civilizations with similar, if not better technology who are providing protection for potential displacers. We're still here, right? If it was just "DARPA and the NWO against the helpless people." we would have all been dead and imprisoned long ago. There is a balance of forces,

I think a case could certainly be built that the majority of actions are human based & the slippage of control is due to their dogmatic ways that were never designed for near instantaneous communication between the common man; however, I still am not convinced that we are "winning" by any means, as the average person still watches TV and parrots what they hear the next day... I think "TPTB" are still firmly in control with their long standing basses of power that have amassed so much kinetic energy it will be very hard to displace them.

It could well take 50 years, that's why I'm studying longevity protocols as hard as I can. I agree that they can no longer predict what we'll do.

*

Re: the Contactee Oath, I made a rough draft here. Anyone can amend it if they feel like it.

http://piratepad.net/bVovZM01sk