Should Christians Use Magic Mushrooms?

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
. there are reasons we are trained to stay well within our "comfort zones", but the real reasons are not the ones we have been led to believe ... it is not for our "safety"

oooo elaborate!!!!

(I have my own theories)

Your theories are likely aligned (somewhat) with mine - it is the contrast that varied experience brings over "what is known", or "expected", and it is this contrast that provides growth and learning; the more and greater you can keep experiencing that contrast, the faster you grow spiritually - no matter what that contrast is - for some, it is even abandoning an incredibly "privileged" life, for a more rudimentary one, as long as there's constant contrast .. now consider what "civilization", as we have been told, might be really doing for humanity ... think long term control over the "human project" ... control that seeks to influence successions of lives by reducing the rate at which a spirit can grow. Ultimately slowing the "awakening" (for lack of non-diluted term) process and allowing the "rulers" to continue the play of "power" that they seek within the physical realm. The true intention for this awful leg of the project (dealing with culturally encoded fear based consciousness) was intended to accelerate and broaden the learning experience for the soul, through individual lives. However, also during this leg, many other fallen have sought to slow this part of the process, to "enjoy" continued power and control over humanity within this leg of the project; some started as our caretakers, tasked with guiding this leg of the project ... we pretty much all fell through the same mechanism - it is related to the forces of separation (aka Satan) on a conscious mind - it's more a mechanical process, but the result is over-emphasis on a fear based ego; humans and angels alike ... Hence here we are at this exact stage!

BTW excellent elaborations/extensions of your own commenting on my post ... well said!

[joeecho]

Posted by 9ofClubs (here)

Posted by OMG (here)
No one should use ANY drug for spiritual experience. The experienced gained from such a thing are not elevated and it's like putting the cart in front of the horse.

This is quite possibly the most ignorant thing you can say in this debate. So you think that when the Indians use tobacco in their religious ceremonies they are in the wrong? Or when it is used during the ayahuasca ceremonies?


lets talk carbs. They become sugar after you eat it by the body. Sugar is a drug. Therefore Catholics are taking a drug, also wine, during communion.


Furthermore, what drugs do is nothing. What i mean is your body is actually doing all the work from what I understand. You have receptors in your brain and what drugs do is bind with those receptors and cause your body to produce serotonin dopamine or neuro transmitters which then cause you to feel the effects. MDMA doesnt do anything but cause your body to produce alot of serotonin, dopamine, and Norepinephrine. So that high is produced by your body as a reaction to the stimulus. Which is why you can achieve this effect through running or meditation as well.


But how dare you cast such broad sentence. This is a very ethnocentric and western point of view. This is not even getting into the ideas of the Sacred Mushroom and the Cross and that all christian belief is really just mushroom worship. Or the ancient mystery religions and kykeon.

*Passes the peace pipe*

This buds for you.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by petra (here)
I've heard it said many times now that the "universe provides for you" on mushrooms... now I haven't tried them, but from what you guys are saying that sounds like it could be possible to me. Next time one of you guys does some shrooms, try and manifest some thoughts and see what happens?

Trying to be "serious" on mushrooms is sometimes pretty hard ... (I tried to have sex on mushrooms once -- didn't work lol! We couldn't take the act seriously - it was just weird and funny); the spirit suddenly remembers the mind-states of childhood and then "play" is often the foremost intention. That said, I have performed incredible physical acts of skill while on mushrooms - as it has been mentioned, it temporarily clears all the crippling baggage as well (more so for something like MDMA, but to some extent with psychedelics as well), and that baggage most often contains all our self imposed restrictions that we didn't know existed (both physically and mentally) - the contrast of that experience lets us know it exists, so we can access what is needed to address it; this is how it is therapeutic.

[OMG]

Consciousness precedes matter...carts don't pull horses.

Stillness provides the Answer. Not an infinite journey of illusion, psychedelics or whatever...

The paradox of communicating this is also the resolution as long as the addiction(s) is seen for what it is...

[TargeT]

Posted by OMG (here)
Co
Stillness provides the Answer.

so still altering the natural state of consciousness... Hmm... interesting...I have a multitude of paths to choose when I go to dinner, regardless of the choice I end the night satisfied.... is the path more important than the goal?

Pro/Con it real quick... what's the WORST outcome, really? We've seen some of the best; it was LIFE CHANGING for me, and many others; in the best of ways.

[ghostrider]

A true spirtual experience can only happen when the mind is clear and under your control , my opinion ... it was only when i put all that down did my spiritual self wake up and began to help , and my whole life changed for the better ... until then ohe only sees life through a veil... drugs only stimulate potential that is already there ...

[KiwiElf]

Hmmmm... I'm thinking of the old movie, Altered States... the native American Indians did (and do) just fine on it - before interfering Westerners & their religions & poisons screwed them up

[ZenBaller]

Drugs open up the pineal gland and/or some chakras by force, which means that it is 100% certain, that simply put, are really bad for your physical and spiritual health. However, for a materialistic person, an opening experiencing like that, may indeed open up his mind and heart to start exploring existential issues and wake up in many ways. If the use of drugs continues though, it will create more problems and spiritual regression rather than evolution. Choosing the natural way of meditation, introspection and healthy nutrition, is the only thing that is needed to have these experiences naturally (in a much more awesome way) when your bodies are actually ready.

[lunaflare]

Life choices lead to life experiences, and there are many varied roads.
With the "getting of wisdom", perhaps we make different choices and can more clearly understand that we are accountable for the decisions we make...

Who is to say that Jesus did not partake of the odd 'shroom? This chap certainly seems to thinks so!
http://www.psychedelics.com/psilocybe/holyjesus.html

[Sunny-side-up]

Mushrooms and the like have very worthwhile benefits.

Most of us at certain ages need a kick-start, a mind-opener.

What must be said is: you must be in a safe personal space with sensible people. You must not be messing around, if you are with the wrong people it can lead to harm, it will certainly spoil the benefits anyway!

back when I used to take shrooms many people wanted me to take them with them, so I could look after them and lead them into good experiences and or divert any bad experiences before they started
I could tell just where they where in the trip.

[Fellow Aspirant]

LOVE Bill Hicks!

[OMG]

Posted by ZenBaller (here)
Drugs open up the pineal gland and/or some chakras by force, which means that it is 100% certain, that simply put, are really bad for your physical and spiritual health. However, for a materialistic person, an opening experiencing like that, may indeed open up his mind and heart to start exploring existential issues and wake up in many ways. If the use of drugs continues though, it will create more problems and spiritual regression rather than evolution. Choosing the natural way of meditation, introspection and healthy nutrition, is the only thing that is needed to have these experiences naturally (in a much more awesome way) when your bodies are actually ready.

Note: The nature of Spirit is that it can take ANY experience and use it towards beneficial spiritual reality. This is becoming more and more prevalent in society today as indivudlas are fiercely defending and justifying virtually every action they do. This is natural and a necessary step. Yet there are long paths and short paths, beneficial and nonbeneficial paths, the wheat is separated from the chaff in us all, etc...

Attaining profound spiritual experience within-innately without the use of things/externals is optimal. Relying on externals makes you spiritually codependent.

Expanding spiritual reality only needs your awareness and action in the NOW. You ALWAYS are with yourself and NOW is the best time.

Peace

[Fellow Aspirant]

I think that my "exposure" to different hallucinogens in my teens and twenties were directly responsible for my later "awakening".

I wonder how many of the members of this forum are also veterans of drugs that altered their minds and perceptions.

Brian

[TargeT]

Posted by Fellow Aspirant (here)
I think that my "exposure" to different hallucinogens in my teens and twenties were directly responsible for my later "awakening".

I wonder how many of the members of this forum are also veterans of drugs that altered their minds and perceptions.

Brian

This was my experience also... I needed to have the societal zietgiest slapped out of me.. It happened.

[Kano]

Posted by Fellow Aspirant (here)
I think that my "exposure" to different hallucinogens in my teens and twenties were directly responsible for my later "awakening".

I wonder how many of the members of this forum are also veterans of drugs that altered their minds and perceptions.

Brian

This is the case with me as well.

[conk]

If you want a mind bending experience, watch this video. Especially the part about pagan rituals involving a certain mushroom, a mushroom the Catholic Church took much symbolism from. The Pope's 'dress', hat, and drinking cup all represent various stages of growth of this mushroom. Very, very interesting.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=suBqqpez_-I

[Kano]

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by Kano (here)
Yes, total rite of passage. I first took mushrooms in college and have viewed the world differently ever since. It gave me a much more profound understanding and respect for all that is. I recommend everyone try a natural psychedelic at least once in his/her life.

They are all natural

I don't know of a single popular one(.. there are some RC's (research chemicals) that are psychedelic that isn't).

Well, LSD is a synthetic and therefore not natural. Certain derivatives of LSD are natural such as ergot alkaloids. However, LSD is synthesized from ergot fungus. I personally would recommend to stay away from anything that doesn't occur in nature.

[TargeT]

Posted by Kano (here)
Well, LSD is a synthetic and therefore not natural. Certain derivatives of LSD are natural such as ergot alkaloids. However, LSD is synthesized from ergot fungus. I personally would recommend to stay away from anything that doesn't occur in nature.

It's an ergot extract, which is chemically purified to just one component (and then isomerized).. I consider that "natural", much like essential oils are "natural" or tinctures are "natural"... It certainly is a lot more processed than say, mushrooms, but when you make mushroom tea, you are again processing it (through heat and "chemicals" (ok, water)) to extract what you want...

IMO, as long as you're starting from something other than petrochemicals (aka RC's etc..), using the base of a historically used substance I think it's ok to call natural. Who want's to drink pure ergot?? ( I mean, it was done.. but a bit too risky)

Anyway, I just see us as us being"better at making ergot beer" not making a new chemical all together.

Posted by Kano (here)
Certain derivatives of LSD are natural such as ergot alkaloids.

I'd say LSD is a derivative of naturally occurring LSA (from ergot and morning glory seeds, lots of sources)

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by OMG (here)
Consciousness precedes matter...carts don't pull horses.
Stillness provides the Answer. Not an infinite journey of illusion, psychedelics or whatever...
The paradox of communicating this is also the resolution as long as the addiction(s) is seen for what it is...

You seem to think there is a straight line first from consciousness, then to matter. "Cart and horse" was your example. However in my view this is a shortsighted and incomplete view. Consciousness cannot grow, it cannot learn without having experiences. It is a circle with three main components -- Experience feeds consciousness so that it can grow / learn (it cannot otherwise), consciousness does feed matter in terms of manifestations (we all do it, but don't notice we are), and matter in turn feeds our experiences - we live in the realm of matter and all our "experiences" happen here in this realm -- every human has to live lives of "matter" - from which our experiences are attained, and those experiences feed our consciousness for the purpose of growth and learning. It is a self feeding circle (and a trap when contrast of experience is removed) - not a straight line with a beginning and an end.

Humans are here in the realms of matter for the purpose of growth and learning, to expand our consciousness, this is the purpose of "why" we are here and why it sometimes sucks - it's all about experiential contrast (to the point where some even claim that if in one life you rape someone, in the next life you get raped, etc).

Your horse / cart equation hide the complete view. I'll say again, no one decides what experience provides spiritual growth (although all does to some extent), except the experience itself - it cannot be reduced further for this equation. Saying what specific acts of experience will or won't provide a soul learning, is disingenuous at best, and shows a bit of ignorance towards what humanity's purpose is in the realms of matter at this time.


Secondly, you hint that some of us are defending addictions to "drugs"; psychedelics are NOT addictive at all - this is your error in judgement -- they have zero addictive properties, and in fact even have anti-addicting properties built in. LSD for example, taken on day 1 you will get a massive effect, take same dose on day 2 half the effect, same dose on day 3 half of that effect, next day no effect. increase dose by 2 x the next day, little effect. by this time though your body would be screaming to stop, because that is now abuse, not use. No one get's "addicted" to these things - addictive drugs are opioides, tobacco, cocaine, -- none of these are psychedelics. I can tell you there is not one person on the planet "addicted" to psychedelics, and people who do or have used them, it is usually once, or a handful times in an entire lifetime. (save for maybe McKenna )

It is obvious you are trying to speak on a topic where you have no experience and little education on, it really does show in contrast to those who have first hand experience. I'm not saying you are wrong or that a psychedelic experience is right for you - I don't know that, just as you don't know it would be for anyone else; from your point of view you are right, and that is all that is needed for you.

[Kano]

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by Kano (here)
Well, LSD is a synthetic and therefore not natural. Certain derivatives of LSD are natural such as ergot alkaloids. However, LSD is synthesized from ergot fungus. I personally would recommend to stay away from anything that doesn't occur in nature.

It's an ergot extract, which is chemically purified to just one component (and then isomerized).. I consider that "natural", much like essential oils are "natural" or tinctures are "natural"... It certainly is a lot more processed than say, mushrooms, but when you make mushroom tea, you are again processing it (through heat and "chemicals" (ok, water)) to extract what you want...

IMO, as long as you're starting from something other than petrochemicals (aka RC's etc..), using the base of a historically used substance I think it's ok to call natural. Who want's to drink pure ergot?? ( I mean, it was done.. but a bit too risky)

Anyway, I just see us as us being"better at making ergot beer" not making a new chemical all together.

Posted by Kano (here)
Certain derivatives of LSD are natural such as ergot alkaloids.

I'd say LSD is a derivative of naturally occurring LSA (from ergot and morning glory seeds, lots of sources)

There are many dangerous solvents and reagents used to isolate and isomerize LSD into its street-ready form which all potentially cause a host of pathologies to the body. This simply doesn't occur with, say, mushrooms - a truly natural psychedelic. As such, it is a non-sequitur to compare its production to essential oils, mushroom tea, et al. There are just too many synthetic components used IMO to consider it anywhere close to natural.

All that is needed for a wonderful psychedelic experience provided by Mother Nature with no solvents, reagents or otherwise is a pasture, a cow patty, a little sense of adventure. This, to me, is what it means to be natural.