A documentary more powerful than Loose Change ... blows the lid off the Inside Job!

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Posted by Fred259 (here)
It doesn’t matter what he said on the thread the point is he does with respect have far greater knowledge than you or I on many things, ?

Its not broken. Just login to the old site. Then you will see why it DOES matter what he said and how he acted in that thread. That was the point of the thread. Just beacuse he is John lear, does not mean I am not allowed to ask tough questions. Go and read.

[Zook]

Posted by EYES WIDE OPEN (here)
Well done zook, you keep dragging me back. Its not a smear. A smear would be something unfounded.
I just thought it was important to point out that this person had endorsed a book on holocaust revisionism.
Something I persoanly regard as very questionable.
I am not trying to discredit anybody. IN MY OPINION, they have done that already themselves by writing such an endoresment. But thats my opinon.
Like you said, this is about truth. And its true that this review was written by somebody whom is being used as a witness in the defence as it were. I thought others might be intersted or bothered by this as well. But then again, they may not. Its up to them what they believe.
By not posting it, I would have been not tel;ling the truth and self censoring. Its the same with the forged documents. If it is forged, let people see it so they know and recognise it next time they come across it on the web. Deleating it is pointless. This thread might even show up in google seach results, and as a result people will be able to see your arguments. Its just logical.
My main point in all this is that pentagon flyovers and hologrammes will not help with a new investigation. There are better avenues.
Its clear we are on totally different pages here. I dont have much else to say Im afraid.

*MOD hat off*

Look, EWO. It ruins my day when I make enemies, or nonfriends even. Bad energy is bad energy.

I do apologize if I didn't show more sensitivity on the subject matter of Holocaust Revisionism. I tend to speak with an active voice when I'm in the pursuit of truth. Yes, we have strong disagreements on 9/11/2001 ... and largely because you tried to discredit genuine truthseekers, IMHO. I think our disagreements on Holocaust Revision are not as great: I do believe that many Jews (and others) were killed by Nazi eugenics policies. If you are Jewish, I can understand how this topic is painful for you. But I also know that attempting to broach the topic of the Holocaust has been paid with a high personal cost by those attempting to do so. They are invariably and falsely accused of antiSemitism (another Zionist shibboleth). I don't think Revisionism is a bad thing. Indeed, I think it's high time we revisit all history. Even with the understanding that history has been written by the victor's historians.

I don't know whether you believe in Zionism. But to me, Zionism and Judaism are entirely different things. Jews are decent people, in my understanding, as are any ethnoreligious groups. Zionists, by contrast, are the Nazis of the modern era. Jews and Zionists belong to disjunct realities even as they are herded into the same tent by hardcore Zionists. Not all Zionists are bad; most are merely brainwashed. The remaining are in the duty of the bankster elites and these belong to all cultures. To wit, believe it or not, there are Christian Zionists, Muslim Zionists, Hindu Zionists ... even Buddhist Zionits ... in addition to the commonly understand Jewish Zionists. But these Zionists have no real identity outside their duty to the Rothschild bankster empire; indeed, the modern state of Israel is a Rothschild bankster establishment.

*MOD hat on*



ps: I would like to think that you are Jewish. At worse, a surface Zionist who has been brainwashed. To wit, better a brainwashed Zionist than a Zionist whose identity is with the Rothschild bankster empire.

ps2: I do apologize if I had overlooked the sensitivity of the Holocaust issue. (But I hope you will understand that all of human history needs to be revisited. The Holocaust is then just a subset of this revisitation.)

ps3: Humble opinions all around.

ps: Please assume for all the posts in this thread that I have my MOD hat off. These are strictly my opinions and are not necessarily shared by the rest of the MOD staff. Thank you.

[Dennis Leahy]

Posted by EYES WIDE OPEN (here)
...My main point in all this is that pentagon flyovers and hologrammes will not help with a new investigation. There are better avenues.

I agree. Focus should be kept on the forensic evidence of the 3 WTC towers: physics (free fall speed) and chemistry (high-tach, military-grade nanothermite in the dust.) There are a million distracting elements, and the COINTELPRO types don't just want disinformation to rule the day, they want the 911 Truth community divided. Nothing would be better for the perpetrators than for the movement to lock into some aspect of the "big show" on 911, and have it be 'proven' false. If the whole 911 Truth movement bet all our chips on a Pentagon flyover with a missile strike, and the Pentagon (who has now had 9 years to create a fake film that could 'prove' whatever they want) releases said fake film, the movement would be crushed.

Everything should be investigated, and Shanksville and the Pentagon DO hold clues and evidence - but it would be self-defeating to allow the divide-and-conquer agents to break our focus. Obviously, the major branches of the US government all know what happened and are the current phase of the cover-up (and off and running on the agendas that were the reasons for 911 in the first place.) So, I doubt we'll ever get a fair investigation - but if we do, it will be because of the forensic (physics and chemistry) from WTC 1,2, and 7.

Dennis

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Posted by Zook (here)
*MOD hat off*

Look, EWO. It ruins my day when I make enemies, or nonfriends even. Bad energy is bad energy.

I do apologize if I didn't show more sensitivity on the subject matter of Holocaust Revisionism. I tend to speak with an active voice when I'm in the pursuit of truth. Yes, we have strong disagreements on 9/11/2001 ... and largely because you tried to discredit genuine truthseekers, IMHO. I think our disagreements on Holocaust Revision are not as great: I do believe that many Jews (and others) were killed by Nazi eugenics policies. If you are Jewish, I can understand how this topic is painful for you. But I also know that attempting to broach the topic of the Holocaust has been paid with a high personal cost by those attempting to do so. They are invariably and falsely accused of antiSemitism (another Zionist shibboleth). I don't think Revisionism is a bad thing. Indeed, I think it's high time we revisit all history. Even with the understanding that history has been written by the victor's historians.

I don't know whether you believe in Zionism. But to me, Zionism and Judaism are entirely different things. Jews are decent people, in my understanding, as are any ethnoreligious groups. Zionists, by contrast, are the Nazis of the modern era. Jews and Zionists belong to disjunct realities even as they are herded into the same tent by hardcore Zionists. Not all Zionists are bad; most are merely brainwashed. The remaining are in the duty of the bankster elites and these belong to all cultures. To wit, believe it or not, there are Christian Zionists, Muslim Zionists, Hindu Zionists ... even Buddhist Zionits ... in addition to the commonly understand Jewish Zionists. But these Zionists have no real identity outside their duty to the Rothschild bankster empire; indeed, the modern state of Israel is a Rothschild bankster establishment.

*MOD hat on*



ps: I would like to think that you are Jewish. At worse, a surface Zionist who has been brainwashed. To wit, better a brainwashed Zionist than a Zionist whose identity is with the Rothschild bankster empire.

ps2: I do apologize if I had overlooked the sensitivity of the Holocaust issue. (But I hope you will understand that all of human history needs to be revisited. The Holocaust is then just a subset of this revisitation.)

ps3: Humble opinions all around.

ps: Please assume for all the posts in this thread that I have my MOD hat off. These are strictly my opinions and are not necessarily shared by the rest of the MOD staff. Thank you.

Thank you for apologising. It means alot.

For my part, I am sorry if I upset anyone. It was never my intention.

You say I tried to discredit people. I never set out to discredit anyone.
I only came on here and stated my opinion.

I thank you for pointing out the forged document but that does not make the case for a flyover or hologrammes. There is just not evidence for this. If there was, they would have submitted a paper for peer-review.

Also, both sides of this argument are guilty of ad hominem attacks. I never denied that at all.

And yes, clearly there are disinfo agents in the movement but petty arguments and incorrect maths does not make people disinfo agents.
However, I agree knowingly promoting forged documents is a terribel and detrimental thing to do.

Personally, I dont want anything to do with CIT beacuse of their personal attacks aginst others, their cherry picking and maniplulation of evidence and witnessess and lack of hard science or some kind of internal standard like peer-review. (just put their work out for peer-review - I would shut up then.)

I am not convinced victorinix is disinfo. I think she has a bee in her bonnet because the paper she defended with hoffman was (rightly) critisised. I think she is just stating her incorrect opions with regards to explosive testing. She is wrong. She belives she is right. That is not proof of disinfo.

But thank you for the links. They were very enlightening and depressing at the same time.

My religion (if I have one - dont presumme) should make no difference to this at all.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Love and light to zook, fred, richard, bill and all in this thread. (this) life is too short!
¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by dennis leahy (here)
i agree. Focus should be kept on the forensic evidence of the 3 wtc towers: Physics (free fall speed) and chemistry (high-tach, military-grade nanothermite in the dust.) there are a million distracting elements, and the cointelpro types don't just want disinformation to rule the day, they want the 911 truth community divided. Nothing would be better for the perpetrators than for the movement to lock into some aspect of the "big show" on 911, and have it be 'proven' false. If the whole 911 truth movement bet all our chips on a pentagon flyover with a missile strike, and the pentagon (who has now had 9 years to create a fake film that could 'prove' whatever they want) releases said fake film, the movement would be crushed.

Everything should be investigated, and shanksville and the pentagon do hold clues and evidence - but it would be self-defeating to allow the divide-and-conquer agents to break our focus. Obviously, the major branches of the us government all know what happened and are the current phase of the cover-up (and off and running on the agendas that were the reasons for 911 in the first place.) so, i doubt we'll ever get a fair investigation - but if we do, it will be because of the forensic (physics and chemistry) from wtc 1,2, and 7.

Dennis

wise words.

[Bill Ryan]

-------

Good job, everyone. There are no bad guys here.

What we have in common is that we're all passionate about whatever the truth is. That's what we're all trying to figure out.

[Fred259]

Posted by EYES WIDE OPEN (here)
Its not broken. Just login to the old site. Then you will see why it DOES matter what he said and how he acted in that thread. That was the point of the thread. Just beacuse he is John lear, does not mean I am not allowed to ask tough questions. Go and read.

Many thanks, yes I read the post in full and I have to say I agree with all he says.

With respect prior to reading his post which I have now just done I did post earlier on the thread over the last few weeks saying that these speeds mentioned on the forum were all impossible.

Fred’s SpeedsVMO (Velocity maximum Operating) 340Kt M0.78 Certified by the UK CAA

I also said that these speeds were impossible because the density of the air and the volumetric efficiency of the engines.


John Lear SpeedsVMO (Velocity maximum Operating) 360kt Certified by the US FAA

No B767 could attain that speed above sea level because of parasite drag which doubles with velocity and parasite power which cubes with velocity.

The fan portion of the engine is not designed to accept the volume of dense air at any altitude or speed.

John has given you a more technical answer, but it all amounts to the same.


Then he told you the aircraft had 9.6 million parts 300 miles of coded wiring every 6 inches and all rivets were stamped and part coded.


Eyes Wide Open Comments
“I conclude that there is very strong evidence that the towers were demolished and that we have been lied to regarding the Pentagon”. Eyes Wide Open.


John Lear CommentsIt’s obvious you have just fallen off the turnip truck.

So let me respectfully make this suggestion either you climb back on the turnip truck and go back to where you came from or do your own linking and quit wasting my time.

Followed by

This is my last post on Avalon, and don’t ask me back as I have much better uses for my time than working together and spoon feeding the ignorant

All the best

John Lear.



So it would seem we have been here before and for some reason you didn’t like what he told you or perhaps the manner in which it was conveyed. They are like that EYO, don’t take it personally, when you have flown CIA mission over Vietnam you do have a different outlook on life.

Equally 2 weeks ago I spend an evening trying to explain the very same speeds that John had earlier attempted to explain so its getting all rather pointless.


I do accept you like to discuss things, but sometimes you just have to accept things. Tell me when you are lying on the operating table do you question what the anesthetist is about to do?

I do however note you posted.

“I conclude that there is very strong evidence that the towers were demolished and that we have been lied to regarding the Pentagon”.

So what’s the problem and what do you want to discuss? We are not discussing speeds.

[Fred259]

Posted by EYES WIDE OPEN (here)
Its not broken. Just login to the old site. Then you will see why it DOES matter what he said and how he acted in that thread. That was the point of the thread. Just beacuse he is John lear, does not mean I am not allowed to ask tough questions. Go and read.

I have had another look at this link EWO. I have a feeling and you will correct me if I am wrong that confusion existed with John’s opinion and some work Henry Deacon had doing on automatics for a “white plane”. (Bill confirmed this)

It was at this point that John and Henry were in disagreement over the eventual outcome, or what was actually used.

Separately I have looked at some parts of this "automatic solution", and while parts can be explained others can’t.

What I am saying is that I think it was the intention to use an auto flight solution, but I think this was rejected during the planning stage as very risky.

Obviously I am NOT saying he didn’t do the work, clearly he did but perhaps his work into these areas was eventually halted.

The bottom line folk is that if aircraft were used either by Muslims, auto flight or another method, some serious wreckage needs to be accounted for. Every part without exception has a part number and so even the toilet flush buttons must be somewhere. 4x8=32 so we are looking for 32 missing toilet hand flush buttons all with part numbers on.

These are the main parts that need to be accounted for from the 4 sites WTC, 1 WTC 2, Pentagon and Shanksville.


x 4 Indestructible - Cockpit Voice Recorder.

x 8 Indestructible - Flight Data Recorder, (commonly known as Black Box’s)

x 8 Indestructible - Gas Turbine Engines.

x 4 Indestructible - Auxiliary Power Unit (APU) Gas Turbine Engine.

x 12 Indestructible - Landing Gear Olio Struts (18 feet long)

x 40 Indestructible - Carbon Fibre Brake Wheel Hub Housing Units.

These are just the main parts, then we have hydraulic reservoirs, oxygen bottles, numerous pumps, air conditioning packs, and the list goes on and on.

So far we have seen one engine which doesn’t even power a B767 just dropped on the sidewalk for our consumption. So it’s not looking good I would say.

[Dennis Leahy]

But Fred, all the jet parts and/or missing jet parts are gone. These were not handled as a crime scenes, any and all real evidence was removed, and any missing evidence is unprovable as never having been there. So the bottom line is that without a major whistle-blower's testimony, the jet parts and the true jet flight-paths have vanished from evidence - it's all conjecture now, and worthless in getting a conviction or even the truth.

Wanna have a small chance at a new inquiry: stick with WTC 1,2, and 7 forensic (physics, chemistry) evidence. Nothing more. It proves the buildings were rigged with explosives - let it unfold from there.

Wanna sit down over a cup of coffee and theorize with me?
My guess? No Muslims. Real jets. The real people on the (extremely sparse) passenger lists included people that the CIA (or some other black-ops division that I may not even know the acronym of) needed to kill to prevent whistleblowing. Early in the flights, nerve gas automatically released in cockpit and cabin air supply killing all on-board, flights then remote controlled. Black boxes found and removed by special black-ops members and disposed of (dissolved in acid.)

Pentagon?: drone jet/missile (Global Hawk?) with wings. Possibly also bomb(s) within the Pentagon to make sure the evidence they wanted to disappear did disappear.

Shanksville?: Shot down, possibly because they lost control of the remote or because the delayed timing of two of the other jets' take-offs messed up the overall plan. Maybe Shanksville jet was supposed to hit WTC 7?

Dennis

[Fred259]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
But Fred, all the jet parts and/or missing jet parts are gone. These were not handled as a crime scenes, any and all real evidence was removed, and any missing evidence is unprovable as never having been there. So the bottom line is that without a major whistle-blower's testimony, the jet parts and the true jet flight-paths have vanished from evidence - it's all conjecture now, and worthless in getting a conviction or even the truth.

Wanna have a small chance at a new inquiry: stick with WTC 1,2, and 7 forensic (physics, chemistry) evidence. Nothing more. It proves the buildings were rigged with explosives - let it unfold from there.

Wanna sit down over a cup of coffee and theorize with me?
My guess? No Muslims. Real jets. The real people on the (extremely sparse) passenger lists included people that the CIA (or some other black-ops division that I may not even know the acronym of) needed to kill to prevent whistleblowing. Early in the flights, nerve gas automatically released in cockpit and cabin air supply killing all on-board, flights then remote controlled. Black boxes found and removed by special black-ops members and disposed of (dissolved in acid.)

Pentagon?: drone jet/missile (Global Hawk?) with wings. Possibly also bomb(s) within the Pentagon to make sure the evidence they wanted to disappear did disappear.

Shanksville?: Shot down, possibly because they lost control of the remote or because the delayed timing of two of the other jets' take-offs messed up the overall plan. Maybe Shanksville jet was supposed to hit WTC 7?

Dennis

Yes I agree about the missing parts, and yes its all in the past and little is to be gained.

My purpose is to try and generate debate 1) No Muslims and 2) Hologram

The reason for doing this is because of the situational developments with Bill. Before Charles appeared we had much talk of Bluebeam or whatever they want to call it, but with no false flag event since 7/7 London 2005. I think we are due something shortly.

Why is this? Look at other world events, financial collapse, Rise of the UN, Agenda 21, and Rise of Europe. They need something that cement this all together. It’s all part of the control grid.

I also believe a new pluralistic world order is forming, those nations who want a healthy distance from the control grid and organisations like the UN, World Bank, IMF WHO. When these organisations jet into town they know they are about to get shafted. Look at South America, Africa Indonesia all prime examples.

How true is this? I suppose in some ways this is connected with the Iranian plan to ditch the $ as the reserve currency for oil trading. As you know they plan their own Euro based oil bourse along with other Gulf States, France, Brazil, China and African nations. I’m trying to type this without bringing the Z word in but it has to be said these nations are sick fed up of all the corruption that goes on aided and facilitated too further the Zionist cause. It’s a major problem.

In parts of Africa nations are moving away from World Bank / IMF influence. In Malawi for example the World Bank forced the country to sell its emergency food stock in order repay a development loan. With the food supply gone and the money gone you know what happened next, famine, many died.

The Malawi government desperate to rebuild food stocks and feed its people supplied subsidised non Monsanto seeds and fertilisers to every smallholder farmer. The World Bank said NO, you can’t do that this will destabilise the world price of maize. (I see you are from Duluth!)

The Malawi government defied the World Bank and pressed ahead. At harvest time a bumper bumper crop. Smallholder farmers restocked and shipped the surplus to the government rebuilding the nation’s emergency food supply. The balance was sold on world markets earning the nation valuable foreign exchange.

What happened next, aircraft started flying in from all over the developing world for intergovernmental meetings and advice on how you tell the World Bank to stick the deal in the Potomac! Just recently Malawi has opened embassies in China, Brazil and Iran. Previously they had very strong links with UK EU and US now they are moving into these new trading blocks.

Now we have Charles, and it’s my view that Globalist are eager to get the job done. They don’t want to see this Iranian oil bourse and stronger developing nations. Charles has told Bill, expect a major false flag from the sky.

Any future false flag will involve a technology new to the public. It's my view that Holograms were part of September 11. I even go as far and say the 2001 attacks in Manhattan may have been a dry run for this future false flag. They always do things in stages.

Muslims are out of the question, real jets you say. I don’t know, I think the loss of EgyptAir 990 over Cape Cod in 1999 was the PTB experimenting with this technology. I posted on this last night #211 and have looked into it extensively. The aircraft autopilot and engines were switched off, noise pitched down and a horizontal asymmetrical deflection of the elevators. What!! That’s a new one.

The aircraft departed Los Angeles earlier in the day, no problems reported. Departure from JFK all normal and after reaching cruising altitude 33,000 over Nantucket it all went wrong. The aircraft dropped to 14,000 before leveling and climbing to 24,000 before plunging into the sea for the final time. I think this was the preferred choice for New York but I’m not so certain it actually happened.

This then leaves Holograms, and what I am trying to do is by a process of elimination drive this discussion towards Holograms so that as much publicity can be gained. Lets not make any mistake after the false flag it will be some kind of government control where food is restricted and RFID chips will be next.

Here it is Dennis, this is what British politician's propose Gas Rationing at $13.00 gallon. This is what the politician's in Britain were discussing on Monday this week.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...ol-ration-plan

Pentagon I think Hologram and Missile with inert warhead. Anything with wings would have generated ground effect, with high energy air with nowhere to go except a 70 foot Pentagon wall. Risky.

WTC You say an aircraft, I’m not sure, we know they tested this from Henry Deacon, and it’s my view they took control of EgyptAir 990, but flying 100 ton aircraft at 250kts into a building is hard even at the best of times, then doing it by remote control, I don’t know if this is possible. We see pictures of Predators in Afghanistan but they are only 2 tons 150 kts, it’s a big difference. New York is another ball game, so risky just imagine if they lost control and it ended up in Times Square. First responders respond and find no bodies! What now Dick Cheney!

So its back to Holograms, its the safest for them and not getting caught.

Shanksville. They had problems with the Hologram technology, they wanted WTC7 as well, but repeated failures and with dusk approaching they were running out of options. In many ways building 7 was, and still is the smoking gun.

Holograms fit, the more I think of it. They developed these 25 years ago perfected and tested on the trade centre, and further developed ready for the event that they told Bill about the next step in the move towards, a New World Order.

Time is not on our side, they have to make a move. Other developments in the rest of the world may force the agenda. The longer they leave it, the harder it will be to get these developing nations on side.

Good chatting Dennis.

[Fred259]

Real jets. The real people on the (extremely sparse) passenger lists included people that the CIA (or some other black-ops division that I may not even know the acronym of) needed to kill to prevent whistleblowing. Early in the flights, nerve gas automatically released in cockpit and cabin air supply killing all on-board, flights then remote controlled. Black boxes found and removed by special black-ops members and disposed of (dissolved in acid.)

Dennis[/QUOTE]Dennis,just got back from the store, I was thinking about your post and elimination - those who did the planning – Its been very quite for 9 years – Not a cheep. Bas*****

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by modwiz (here)
Something did not work out here. Please disregard. Have a nice debate guys.

This seems to be the way of 9/11 threads.

I doubt that it (this heat death of 9/11 threads) is an accident. Nor is necessarily some deliberate conspiracy in which say the Powers That Be plant disruptive agents on one or the other side of such Internet forum debates.

Rather the subject itself is sufficiently conflicting that often as not, one can count on representatives from "both sides" to show up and duke it out at great and mind numbing length, enough to drive ordinary people away from the topic.

Indeed, I know this to be the case personally:

• In the early years after 9/11, I would gladly show up to do battle with any conspiracy nutters who showed up to disrupt what I thought to be the necessary and proper mission of Western Civilization to destroy radicalized Islam.
• Then I switched sides and engaged in mind numbingly lengthy debates, standing for the position that 9/11 was an inside job, driven by Western men in suits, not Middle Eastern men holding Korans.

I was not on some CIA payroll either time. I was just caught in a mind loop, trying to dig out from a steaming pile of malarkey

The events of 9/11 have imposed a severe case of cognitive dissonance, split personality, on our culture.

That may well have been one of the objectives of that operation.

[Fred259]

Posted by ThePythonicCow (here)
This seems to be the way of 9/11 threads.

I doubt that it (this heat death of 9/11 threads) is an accident. Nor is necessarily some deliberate conspiracy in which say the Powers That Be plant disruptive agents on one or the other side of such Internet forum debates.

Rather the subject itself is sufficiently conflicting that often as not, one can count on representatives from "both sides" to show up and duke it out at great and mind numbing length, enough to drive ordinary people away from the topic.

Indeed, I know this to be the case personally:

• In the early years after 9/11, I would gladly show up to do battle with any conspiracy nutters who showed up to disrupt what I thought to be the necessary and proper mission of Western Civilization to destroy radicalized Islam.
• Then I switched sides and engaged in mind numbingly lengthy debates, standing for the position that 9/11 was an inside job, driven by Western men in suits, not Middle Eastern men holding Korans.

I was not on some CIA payroll either time. I was just caught in a mind loop, trying to dig out from a steaming pile of malarkey

The events of 9/11 have imposed a severe case of cognitive dissonance, split personality, on our culture.

That may well have been one of the objectives of that operation.

That’s very true…

Have you had your vaccines Cow?

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
I agree. Focus should be kept on the forensic evidence of the 3 WTC towers: physics (free fall speed) and chemistry (high-tach, military-grade nanothermite in the dust.)

I'd also like to see the undoctored video from the various security cameras on and around the Pentagon for this time period. Just that alone might help us decide how fruitful it would be to further analyze the events at the Pentagon in such an investigation.

[ThePythonicCow]

Have you had your vaccines Cow?

I have a plan in the event that I am more or less forced to be vaccinated.

I plan to tape a $100 bill, a small sponge, and a note to my arm, under my shirt. The note will read something like: "If you will kindly vaccinate this sponge, instead of my arm, you are welcome to take this $100. Thanks."

[modwiz]

Posted by ThePythonicCow (here)
This seems to be the way of 9/11 threads.

I doubt that it (this heat death of 9/11 threads) is an accident. Nor is necessarily some deliberate conspiracy in which say the Powers That Be plant disruptive agents on one or the other side of such Internet forum debates.

Rather the subject itself is sufficiently conflicting that often as not, one can count on representatives from "both sides" to show up and duke it out at great and mind numbing length, enough to drive ordinary people away from the topic.

Indeed, I know this to be the case personally:

• In the early years after 9/11, I would gladly show up to do battle with any conspiracy nutters who showed up to disrupt what I thought to be the necessary and proper mission of Western Civilization to destroy radicalized Islam.
• Then I switched sides and engaged in mind numbingly lengthy debates, standing for the position that 9/11 was an inside job, driven by Western men in suits, not Middle Eastern men holding Korans.

I was not on some CIA payroll either time. I was just caught in a mind loop, trying to dig out from a steaming pile of malarkey

The events of 9/11 have imposed a severe case of cognitive dissonance, split personality, on our culture.

That may well have been one of the objectives of that operation.

To remove any spooky connotations: I thought I was replying to EWO who was replying to Fred259. After posting it came out looking like I was replying to Fred. I did not know how to remedy it,so not knowing how to remove a post I edited my reply to the one you found Pythonic moomeister. Since EWO has had a rough day I'd like to think benevolent energies ran some interference. It was a brief remark and very unnecessary. But this was a debate I was staying out of. These guys are serious heavy hitters with links and documents. I would have looked like a punk next to these guys.

Modwiz

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Fred259
The Malawi government defied the World Bank and pressed ahead. At harvest time a bumper bumper crop. Smallholder farmers restocked and shipped the surplus to the government rebuilding the nation’s emergency food supply. The balance was sold on world markets earning the nation valuable foreign exchange.

Awesome, Fred. That story made my day. Thanks!

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Modwiz
I edited my reply to the one you found Pythonic moomeister.

Ah - so I read more into your one-liner than intended.

Thanks for providing the catalyst for my little rant - even though what I read was not what you intended.

[modwiz]

Posted by ThePythonicCow (here)
Ah - so I read more into your one-liner than intended.

Thanks for providing the catalyst for my little rant - even though what I read was not what you intended.

Your little rant is not without justification, or history. I understood your take immediately and resonated with it. There are a lot of "queer" things that go on with this subject.

[Dennis Leahy]

Posted by Fred259 (here)
...My purpose is to try and generate debate 1) No Muslims and 2) Hologram

...

Any future false flag will involve a technology new to the public. It's my view that Holograms were part of September 11. I even go as far and say the 2001 attacks in Manhattan may have been a dry run for this future false flag. They always do things in stages.

... I think the loss of EgyptAir 990 over Cape Cod in 1999 was the PTB experimenting with this technology. ...Departure from JFK all normal and after reaching cruising altitude 33,000 over Nantucket it all went wrong. The aircraft dropped to 14,000 before leveling and climbing to 24,000 before plunging into the sea for the final time. I think this was the preferred choice for New York but I’m not so certain it actually happened.

This then leaves Holograms, and what I am trying to do is by a process of elimination drive this discussion towards Holograms so that as much publicity can be gained. ...

Pentagon I think Hologram and Missile with inert warhead. Anything with wings would have generated ground effect, with high energy air with nowhere to go except a 70 foot Pentagon wall. Risky.

WTC You say an aircraft, I’m not sure, we know they tested this from Henry Deacon, and it’s my view they took control of EgyptAir 990, but flying 100 ton aircraft at 250kts into a building is hard even at the best of times, then doing it by remote control, I don’t know if this is possible. We see pictures of Predators in Afghanistan but they are only 2 tons 150 kts, it’s a big difference. New York is another ball game, so risky just imagine if they lost control and it ended up in Times Square. First responders respond and find no bodies! What now Dick Cheney!

So its back to Holograms, its the safest for them and not getting caught.

Shanksville. They had problems with the Hologram technology, they wanted WTC7 as well, but repeated failures and with dusk approaching they were running out of options. In many ways building 7 was, and still is the smoking gun.

Holograms fit, the more I think of it. They developed these 25 years ago perfected and tested on the trade centre, and further developed ready for the event that they told Bill about the next step in the move towards, a New World Order.

On a forum like this, surrounded (more or less) by people that know that 911 was an inside job, I see really no harm at all in debating any possibility at all. Stepping out of an arena such as this, back into the "real world", especially in the US where media control/censorship and soundly sleeping sheep are so prevalent, I go back to the notion that it is wise just to introduce them to BuildingWhat.org, then if they are curious and did not go on their own, send them to AE911Truth.org.

So, onto the idea of holographic projections... aren't there hundreds of credible witnesses that heard the first jet, and saw and heard at least the second jet? Not saying a multimedia show is an impossibility, but it would be much more difficult than just flying (what would essentially be) drones into the buildings.

I don't think hitting a building with a remote controlled jet would be difficult, especially with the on-board chips (QRS11 Gyro Chip) these jets have/and had. In fact, take-offs and especially landings are much more difficult and (you'd think) risky, yet major airlines have insisted that the captains of jumbo jets periodically place their jet in auto pilot and either take off or land with a jet full of passengers. (My father-in-law is a retired United Airlines captain.)


Eyewitness account of a drone striking the Pentagon:
Open the PDF file in this Avalon thread, scroll down to: Book 1: Who, How and most importantly, Why (see pages 122-125 "I See Drones")
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ions-About-911

(Every 911 truth researcher needs to read Jeff Prager's theories. You're going to appreciate the insights - especially into the monetary reasons.)

If not for the credible eyewitness account of a drone strike, I actually like the flyover theory with a bomb inside the Pentagon (see April Gallup's testimony), because no matter how you look at anything with wings, you just can't find the forensic signature of wings hitting the building. I don't know what to do with the light poles getting 'clipped' or not, but would think if that if it happened, it may have ripped the wings off, especially if they were carbon fiber (and would have evaporated or disintegrated to splinters if they had made contact with fire or bomb(s.) It is very obvious that the Pentagon camera footage and the footage from surrounding businesses showed something that spoiled their stage show, and we will never see an unadulterated copy of any of that footage. (Holy crap, there is good evidence the Zapruder film was doctored in 1963!) I'm amazed they haven't already released a fake film of a jumbo jet hitting the Pentagon - and the gullible sheep will never understand the lack of engines at the crash site and lack of "wing prints."

Yeah, the Pentagon stinks to high heaven. In some ways, it was the most obvious false flag: fly all the way around the building, and just happen to hit the office where the investigation of the missing trillions of dollars was taking place, destroying all evidence and killing all but one financial analyst. Yeah, right. But, I have a gut feeling that there is a trap set for "Truthers" that make the Pentagon the center ring of the 3-ring circus.

Dennis