Not Quite Farewell

[ceetee9]

I seldom comment on these types of farewell posts as I have mixed feelings about them. However, I feel compelled to say something this time.

I feel your frustration and angst Whiskey_Mystic and have considered walking away at times myself. Perhaps not for the same reasons that you do, but because I feel like the quality of many of the discussions—at least the ones that I have read—have degraded over the last 2 to 3 years. That's not to say there aren't any good posts here anymore, but just that there aren't near as many, IMO. There are still several very intelligent people here who post some very interesting and stimulating information and ideas.

But I think the most important thing is to not give up and walk away. None of us can ever hope to change anything for the better if we give up when the going gets tough or when things don't head in the direction we'd like them to. As you stated:

It is easier to put labels on people and objectify them than to try to understand their perspective. But it is disappointing.

Absolutely it is disappointing and extremely frustrating, but that's what we humans do all the time. We love to put labels on people and things so we don't have to think and evaluate each one individually. We label someone or group or something with a “good” label (i.e., label we relate to something we like) if we like them or it and we label someone or group or something with a “bad” label if we dislike them or it. This enables us to quickly and easily accept or dismiss the labelled person, group or thing with little to no thought process.

We just had an election where over 60 million people labelled a candidate as “good” and 60 million others labelled a candidate as “bad.” And I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of those 120+ million people didn't do any real investigation into, or give any real thought about, either candidate. They simply voted for the candidate of their political party/label of choice or the “lesser of the two evils” in their mind—which they, no doubt, derived from other labels. And I'm confident that we will continue this charade for many elections to come because, again, as you stated, it's easier to label people and objectify them than to put in the requisite time and effort to evaluate them in an attempt to understand them and what they truly stand for.

Avalon was once a place where people from different backgrounds and with different points of view could come together in pursuit of common goals and to enrich each other. It is no longer that place.

I think it still is even if it isn't as diversified and rich as it once was. If more open minded thinkers stuck around and continued to contribute to the forum, I believe it can be again and even better.

Whatever you decide WM, I wish you well and please continue the good fight wherever you go.

[Sierra]

Posted by Maunagarjana (here)
The "truther community" is full of right wingers, especially in the US. Not just on this forum, but on every conspiracy related forum. Most of these folks used to listen to Rush Slimebaugh and Fox Snooze and then they discovered Alex Jones and David Icke and think they "woke up", not realizing that they are still carrying around much of their programming and biases from before. This has become abundantly clear to me. Right now we have people rooting for our new authoritarian white nationalist coddling President-Elect because Alex Jones told them he is anti-NWO. You can leave this forum, but it's unlikely that you'll be able to escape this state of affairs. It's gonna take a lot of whiskey and mysticism to insulate yourself from that.

Hic!

Maunagarjana, I had no idea the truther community was right wing. Now all the ah... the... why the ah... what it is watchamacallit that is overwhelming Avalon... makes... sense.

[3(C)+me]

I have been on this forum for a long time. I come and go. Sometimes I post and sometimes I just want to lurk read here and there. When I first started waking up this place kept me sane. If you don't think I haven't been pissed off, mad as hell, tired of certain types of threads, tired of a certain poster you are so wrong.

But I have to remember some people are at certain stages and they need to work them out and I want to let them even if it drives me bonkers and it does.

Hell, I even had to apologize to someone because well, I was not very considerate with my response, let's put it that way.
If I am not happy with what I see going on, I just step away.
But this is a good forum, I get most of my information here and a few other places. Bill has gone through hell to keep this thing going, he is not perfect, he is a human being with flaws, Thank god he doesn't just say "to hell with it I am done".
And the Mod's can you imagine the things they have to deal with DAILY.
Sometimes I read a post, like this morning, someone posted, thank you and it just hit the spot. I love it when that happens.

Note: I see you live in the Bay area. This is what I have noticed. Their are people who love to hate on: San Fran, La, and the west coast in general. I have heard it all over the years just don't get me started on California earthquakes. Some people will be gleefully happy if it happens. How can you define 40 million people in a few choice words. Some people do. really.

[Mike]

When I first started here, I made it my business to really rip into these threads. They embarrassed me terribly.

Know what else I relentlessly laid into? People who "retired" several times and kept coming back. And also ..members who would get overly touchy about being reprimanded my a moderator, and would quit in an obnoxious huff.

I mean, how f#cking silly!....

....and then, eventually, I did all those things too....

I havent started a farewell thread yet, but dont put it past me. Intellectually I can rip it to bits...but on an emotional level, I sorta get it.

So, i'll bite:
Hey Mystic, youre a cool dude. I seem to recall us butting heads here n there, but I always admired you. Good luck with whatever direction you take.

[Anchor]

Or... you could do what I do and only wander in here when you feel called to do so.

If you do really leave, then so long, and travel well.

Anchor..

[indigopete]

Posted by Whiskey_Mystic (here)
From the Thread: Anti-Trump Riots Erupt in the Bay Area

Posted by Althena (here)
I grew up there, it's always been brain dead liberals living in the Bay, total waste of flesh.

I just checked back into Avalon after years away. Comments like the one above are why I no longer frequent the site....I clearly do not belong here at Avalon any longer

You clearly do, since you expressed your view just as robustly as the "waste of flesh" contributor and therefore qualify

Stick around !

[ghostrider]

These days people are just plain mean and full of hate ,the world needs perspective ... Wish you well ...

[TargeT]

Posted by ghostrider (here)
These days people are just plain mean and full of hate ,the world needs perspective ... Wish you well ...

Perspective, yes... but who's perspective?

This thread is an excellent example of two perspectives meeting, the OP was so affected by it that he decided to vacate himself from a place he used to be interested in.

(very telling to the power of perspective & the power of those who can manage it effectively).

[ghostrider]

im talking about all the people who are quick to put people down, toss them in groups, and make rude comments just because they see things differently, if they would step back look in the mirror and ask am i part of the problem or part of the solution, maybe i should hold my lip if i dont have anything nice to say , all i am doing is spreading hate, division, and a cold hearted mindset, i have a roof over my head food on the table and good health if someone wants a different view , i should remember people are free in a free country, and i will get back what i give out, so i want good i must sow good to reap good , the law of causality... a reaction for every action , positive or negative the individual makes the choice on which polarity ...

[Ewan]

According the political compass I am Libertarian Left, (just a square or two away from Ghandi apparently), anyone from the diametrically opposed quadrant want a fight?

Economic Left/Right: -4.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.79

https://www.politicalcompass.org/

[Heart-2-Heart]

Whiskey-magic ..don't be a whiskey sour ..leave if you feel you have to ..but leave the door open..

[Eram]

Posted by Ewan (here)
According the political compass I am Libertarian Left, (just a square or two away from Ghandi apparently), anyone from the diametrically opposed quadrant want a fight?

Economic Left/Right: -4.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.79

https://www.politicalcompass.org/

Nice test.
I'm even more to the left and libertarian side of the spectrum it seems.
Economic Left/Right: -5.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.74

[Sierra]

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by ghostrider (here)
These days people are just plain mean and full of hate ,the world needs perspective ... Wish you well ...

Perspective, yes... but who's perspective?

This thread is an excellent example of two perspectives meeting, the OP was so affected by it that he decided to vacate himself from a place he used to be interested in.

(very telling to the power of perspective & the power of those who can manage it effectively).

Mod hat on.

Target, I'm glad you are so happy with the election results, but to say, "...very telling to the power of perspective & the power of those who can manage it effectively.", is a polarizing and useless thing to say, good only to cause harm.

This is a reminder that an alt-right victory at the polls doesn't suddenly give you license to ditch community standards, and say whatever you feel like.

Pull back on your reins, please.

[TargeT]

Posted by Sierra (here)

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by ghostrider (here)
These days people are just plain mean and full of hate ,the world needs perspective ... Wish you well ...

Perspective, yes... but who's perspective?

This thread is an excellent example of two perspectives meeting, the OP was so affected by it that he decided to vacate himself from a place he used to be interested in.

(very telling to the power of perspective & the power of those who can manage it effectively).

Mod hat on.

Target, I'm glad you are so happy with the election results, but to say, "...very telling to the power of perspective & the power of those who can manage it effectively.", is a polarizing and useless thing to say, good only to cause harm.

This is a reminder that an alt-right victory at the polls doesn't suddenly give you license to ditch community standards, and say whatever you feel like.

Pull back on your reins, please.

how is it polarizing, it's talking about 1 thing; perspective manipulation, that has little to do with elections, mostly to do with cultural "norms", media we consume and the region we live in... maybe mostly the region we live in.

I've been circling around this perspective management idea a lot lately, mostly trying to teach it to my kids (trying to cut short the "taken for granted" attitude that easily happens to us western civilization types).


I'm not a 1 topic guy & who cares who won, it was certainly the most interesting cycle I've seen. Hopefully the massive media gaffs will get people to do more personal research.

Posted by Eram (here)

Posted by Ewan (here)
According the political compass I am Libertarian Left, (just a square or two away from Ghandi apparently), anyone from the diametrically opposed quadrant want a fight?

Economic Left/Right: -4.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.79

https://www.politicalcompass.org/

Nice test.
I'm even more to the left and libertarian side of the spectrum it seems.
Economic Left/Right: -5.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.74

Don't worry!

The Libertarian right will save us from the libertarian left! (that's kind of diametrically opposed)

Your Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: 2.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.72

Apparently I'm close to a radical libertarian? 0_o

[sunpaw]

Hello Whiskey_Mystic.

I thank you for your explanation, it brought up an issue I noticed myself. And sometimes not knowing what actually to do about it.
So reading now 'such comments' are sometimes rather unnoticed/unreported helps.

I also tried 'answering' - however, sometimes I really really wonder if its worth it. Since I read/write compassionate (which gets me also worked up at times).
Which I neither want nor like, and since I can't change that at the moment: I tend not to read even.

And wondering then how 'others' deal with it - seeing posting...

So thank you for your words, reading responses helped a bit. (However otherwise still same old. sigh).

I wish you well.

Of course I'd like you to stay, like-minded. But I also understand there shall be other reasons than me and others wish you wouldn't leave.
So thank you very much for your gift, the very topic. All my best wishes for you.
Stay safe and enjoy

And thank's for the compass thingy.
I am
Economic Left/Right: -2.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.92

However some questions I could have answered either way depending on context I had in mind vs 'bigger picture' (as in: how would/do people misinterpret such a question. As its also not only an assumption but seen in practice. And which might as well contributed in general having the topic - and taking the survey - in the first place.. )

[Johnny]

Posted by Sierra (here)

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by ghostrider (here)
These days people are just plain mean and full of hate ,the world needs perspective ... Wish you well ...

Perspective, yes... but who's perspective?

This thread is an excellent example of two perspectives meeting, the OP was so affected by it that he decided to vacate himself from a place he used to be interested in.

(very telling to the power of perspective & the power of those who can manage it effectively).

Mod hat on.

Target, I'm glad you are so happy with the election results, but to say, "...very telling to the power of perspective & the power of those who can manage it effectively.", is a polarizing and useless thing to say, good only to cause harm.

This is a reminder that an alt-right victory at the polls doesn't suddenly give you license to ditch community standards, and say whatever you feel like.

Pull back on your reins, please.

I was going to ask you: " how the heck do you get that to be an polarizing ?? " but I see Target came before me. He (Target) say :

This thread is an excellent example of two perspectives meeting

and then he explain by:

(very telling to the power of perspective & the power of those who can manage it effectively).

I see nothing wrong in this.

Johnny

[kirolak]

Fun test. . .I'm even more left & libertarian than you are

[sunpaw]

(very telling to the power of perspective & the power of those who can manage it effectively).

I personally didn't see that as a comment regarding election - it is a known concept, and applies not only to politics. It is neutral - since the very concept can be used 'for good', for good outcomes and so forth.
Which for example applies to self healing powers, or stay healthy too.

And I personally am irritated that seemingly not even known concepts are allowed to mention, additionally to seemingly favoring 'wings'.
When it came to Obama I didn't see such 'be careful', nor for some comments regarding Hillary. Which weren't only 'political' but also 'off'.
(which I don't include just yet. If wanted I provide the links)

And which I personally see as reasons the very topic (again) is here in the first place.

To outline further: regarding mod hat on on a concept (I personally even apply to the recent election, on any election even) - I might as well express that now (let know) Its wrong. In general, and the more on Avalon.
Reason for 'now': I rather express it now than seeing such gets favored and protected, and not expressing myself for the wrong reasons.

I didn't get that 'mod hat on' comment - but just because I didn't write that yet. And I, just for myself like to know: whats going on, where does the forum and the mods stand on this particular issue. I post my 'request' here.
And my main problem is: this is just wrong. And I prefer to know than to assume or tiptoe.

Again, thank you for the very comment. I just took the opportunity to get clarification due.

Thank you in advance.

[Deega]

Hey Whiskey-Mystic, I wish you stay!, if not!, then, may your next experience in another Forum be a wonderful experience, a fruitful one, may the best be with you in your next journey!

[DNA]

Posted by Sierra (here)

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by ghostrider (here)
These days people are just plain mean and full of hate ,the world needs perspective ... Wish you well ...

Perspective, yes... but who's perspective?

This thread is an excellent example of two perspectives meeting, the OP was so affected by it that he decided to vacate himself from a place he used to be interested in.

(very telling to the power of perspective & the power of those who can manage it effectively).

Mod hat on.

Target, I'm glad you are so happy with the election results, but to say, "...very telling to the power of perspective & the power of those who can manage it effectively.", is a polarizing and useless thing to say, good only to cause harm.

Sierra I don't understand your problem here. My take from this is that Target is talking about the media and how people here on this forum are so obviously manipulated by it.
If you are a Hillary apologist then you would be one of the individuals the main stream media has affected, for there is no way in hell anyone who is well informed would want that monster leading a lemonade stand much less a country.
The last two months with the Wikileaks revelations and the undeniable fact that Hillary Clinton helped to destabilize countries in the middle east and have their regimes overthrown to the good of no one living in those countries.
Does not the voice of end these ceaseless wars have no place in the conversation?
I'm actually appalled you would wish to censor Target, which strangely enough is what the main stream media is attempting to do to alternative media sites.
If anyone needs to pull back on their reigns here in my opinion it is your self.
In my opinion your statement here is reactionary to previous conversations you've had with Target on other threads that having nothing to do with this thread.
Target's statement was kind of poetic, yours was kind of draconian.