Does the Catholic Church get a bum rap

[cowens66]

George Carlin on Religion. lol warning- Strong Language.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

[jackovesk]

Posted by plumr2007 (here)
St. Malachi's prophecies of the lineage of popes says he is the second to last before the end of the Church.
However that all being said I believe that the premise of the Church's original ( pre Nicean ) tenets to be based on a spiritual life and worthy of emulating. You just have to look past the false facade presented to the world today by these co-opters.

St. Malachi's prophecies were wrong on 1 front.

Pope Benedict the Pirate will be the last Pope...Why? Because the Catholic Church is finshed as you said yourself.

When good honest people stop believing in their Church leaders, there is no return!

The unfortunate thing about this is, I hope they can start believing in theselves again, the way God intended before the Church stuck their noses in it!

Good Luck to you and your family plumr2007, an remeber true spirituality & strength has always come from within!

[InTheBackground]

It isn't religion or dogma that is the problem. The problem is that so many people seem to need to be led, to be told what to do, what to think, what to believe, rather than searching those things out for themselves. Religion is just one more thing that a few people originally endorsed and that a whole lot of people have since latched onto with gratitude, with relief. "Help me, lead me, tell me what to do and I will follow you to the end of my days..." ?? The same kind of thing comes about as relates to our government. People have lost so much of their ability to discern. To even begin to question.

As far as words to live by, I have always been fond of the Golden Rule, and practice it as best I can. It is enough for me.

[bodixa]

Well, up until relatively recently, most people were illiterate and unable to travel. So they would have very little awareness outside of their own immediate community. Of course more people are asking now - because they can. If you are raised in the structure of the Parish or the local community - your conciousness grows within those boundaries. There are still generations of people out there without access to information or travel - why would they know any different? Why would they need to? Is it a better place to be to be on a journey of enlightenment or is ignorance bliss? And can anybody really judge it as ignorance?

I don't ever feel I can comment on any one person's journey or awareness - that is theirs to own, whatever world they were born into.

I need help and I need to be led. Don't leave me in this mess alone! Tell me what you know and show me your stuff!!

[greybeard]

Posted by caren (here)
"The majority of the church are good kind people, they have helped me..."
Thank you Atticus - true words spoken from a very wise man. I also like "Walk a mile in my shoes" and "The golden rule" as well just for starters.
Please.. we need to stop JUDGING and CONDEMNING others and work on our COMPASSION and FORGIVENESS!!! (I am in no way singling out any one person here.) "I love you" - pass it on..
It's certainly OK to have our opinions and express them.. but wouldn't it be more fruitful to spend our valuable time thinking about ways we can help our beautiful Mother earth to heal?.. There is Never enough LOVE being shared.. I respectfully suggest we focus our energies on that please. The rest will fall into place.
"Give Peace A Chance" Sir John
Love and Peace to all.

I agree with Caren and Atticus
In spite of everything the church kept the teaching of Christ alive for 2010 years.
It is human nture to focus on what is wrong it would seem.
The good is so common place it is almost not noticed.
While I am not of any religion I used to drink with a Priest and he was a fascinating and caring man.
In any organization you will find a certain % who are selfish out for themselves no matter the cost to others.
Christ on the Cross "God forgive them for they know not what they do" Spiritually ignorant, they did not know any better.
The first two Commandments say it all.
Love God = Search ye first the Kingdom of Heaven = Heaven lies within = you true Divine Self.
Love thy fellow man = your very own true Self = Only One Consciousness.

So if we claim to be on a spiritual path we have to look for the good in all without exception.
It may be difficult to find but it is within all.

Love all serve all.
Chris

[DawgBone]

We humans crave certainty. We want to understand our lives. We want to understand the world and our place in it. We want answers. We want answers even if they are the wrong answers.

Religions are in the business (literally) of supplying answers. They offer complete explanations. They provide a complete cosmology and world view. No thinking is required. Follow their beliefs, adhere to their dogmas, and all will be well. Have faith, because reason is a whore.

But to be truly alive requires a tolerance of uncertainty. As soon as you are secure in your knowledge and beliefs, you stop perceiving the world as it really is. You project you beliefs and filter reality to fit. This is a sorry state of affairs.


Religions are drug pushers. They sell certainty. Just say NO.

[conk]

The church is not the people in it, but the ideas and influence coming out of it. These ideas, lies really, have had tremendous negative impact on all of us. Granted, most people in church are good people that have had their minds co-opted by the big lie.

No! We are not born of dust (dirt), but are an expression of wonder made of light. HUGE difference! No! We are not born sinners. We come into this world as magnificent beings that have had our potential stolen from us.

Does the church get a bum rap. NO! It's not rapped enough. And now we find evidence of the Vatican directing the subordinates NOT to disclose child abuses. Incomprehensible and totally unacceptable. Wear a fancy dress and a big goofy hat, and get a free ride on the kiddie coaster. Sickening. Vile, putrid scum is what they are.

[barefoot]

My heart goes out to all the kind, giving of self people
who are trapped within the walls of the CC, or, any
other religious/institutional teachings.

I was there.

The FEARS of eternal hell for my "sins". This is akin
to Santa Claus "Be good or you won't get any presents"
So many mind-twisting, FEAR-producing doctrines, held
up to the enslaved minds as "Truth".

How is one who is enslaved going to break free? There
are no guaranteed methods.

For me (emotional change) post-natal depression. All
hell broke loose within my mind. A mental explosion!!
I was free to think any thought I wished (which was forbidden
in my religious training). Freedom, sweet freedom.

And now the fun begins. What is true? Where does one
find the Truth? Why am I here?

Perhaps it would be better to send our loving energies
to these enslaved people rather than our angry energies to the ones
that enslave them, empowering those rascals more.

Many Blessings

Bobbe

Part of the reason I came here was to taste chocolate. mmm
To feel a warm spring rain, to smell the earth as she receives
it. To see a sunset, a sunrise, snow falling, ripples in a stream,
waves upon a shore,,,,, Things that I could not experience as a
spirit, or soul.

[Carmody]

To me, the world is full of people, some good, some bad.

To me, politics is full of people. Some good, some bad.

To me, the church is full of people. Some good, some bad.

The bad people are learning lessons about the value of not being bad, and the good are helping them.

The next time you are born, the roles may just be - reversed.

Tomorrows victim -can be today's perpetrator.

And to day's victim..can..be...tomorrow's...

So don't speak to harshly.

[Binaryspellbook]

Posted by cowens66 (here)
George Carlin on Religion. lol warning- Strong Language.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

Carlin is a comedy genius. Loved the quote about God definitely having to be a man. That was priceless.

[Icecold]

Posted by Atticus (here)
The bird may fly in any direction,do not condemn all the feathers.

The majority of the church are good kind people,they have helped me to hide on many occasions,when my so called friends were gone.

Atticus is the name of a christian martyr, burned at the stake....among other people.

The church are NOT good kind people....human beings are good kind people. The problem with these human beings is that they think they belong to things called 'churches'. They are fundamentally 'owned'...in both senses of the word.

[East Sun]

It's like everything else in out human existence, there are dedicated martyrs and manipulators and those who lost any idea of they started out to be--the priests who fell. Countless thousands of Catholic Priests and Nuns have given their entire lives to doing what they believed to be right. They can be compared to innocent young soldiers who believe they are patriotic and doing the ultimate for their country only to be blown to pieces or survive when they would be better off to die instantly.
No one can just blame an organization totally. There are the best and the worst. Of course in times like this evil can take over and bad things happen, hopefully to eventually result in a better beginning at a higher level. I grieve for the ones who mean well and suffer. I hope there is a reckoning where all is leveled off. If not it's all for nothing really.

[Icecold]

Posted by East Sun (here)
It's like everything else in out human existence, there are dedicated martyrs and manipulators and those who lost any idea of they started out to be--the priests who fell. Countless thousands of Catholic Priests and Nuns have given their entire lives to doing what they believed to be right. They can be compared to innocent young soldiers who believe they are patriotic and doing the ultimate for their country only to be blown to pieces or survive when they would be better off to die instantly.
No one can just blame an organization totally. There are the best and the worst. Of course in times like this evil can take over and bad things happen, hopefully to eventually result in a better beginning at a higher level. I grieve for the ones who mean well and suffer. I hope there is a reckoning where all is leveled off. If not it's all for nothing really.

That's not the point. OK they were all fooled. The question is WHY are they remaining in a criminal organisation? When you have knowledge you act on it. Their actions or lack of action is the reality, catholics that remain in the organisation are as guilty as the perpetrators by the act of complicity and support.

[Teakai]

I don't think the catholic church gets a big enough bum -rap.

Gospel of Thomas:
39. Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so.

[mrmalco]

Yes the Catholic Church ... Inquisition, torture, Witch Trials, forgery, 'Index', hidden agendas, pedophilia and general guilt-spread ... etc .
Mongolians (Genghis Khan); Chinese (approx 700 years of civil wars, recently Mao - millions dead); Israelites (cf Deuteronomy: massacres in Canaan); Phoenicians - (worship of Moloch - child sacrifice); Aztecs (mass sacrifice); Hurrians, Goths, Vandals - massacre and rapine; Romans (hundreds of years of public butchery); Vikings (murder pillage fire and rape throughout North Europe and British lands; Franks (crusades) Normans (executed the Cathar 'crusade); Protestants (witch hunts 16th, 17th and early 18th centuries bad-as/worse-than than that of Catholic Church); 100 years of religious wars in Europe - million died; 1st world war - millions killed for profit and elite control agendas; colonial massacres in Africa and the East by British, French, Portuguese, Spanish ... and America's founders (estimate 60 million); massacres and murder by oppression by Brits in Australasia; USSR under Stalin (conservative estimate 18 million, mainly deliberately starved to death; Hitler and Nazidom - Jews, Poles, Gypsies, Gays - perhaps 8 million all told; Japan - millions killed in the East; UK - carpet bombing of Dresden, Hamburg and Cologne; USA - atom bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki; genocidal massacres in Serbia, Albania, Croatia; genocidal inter-tribal massacres in emerging African countries; France - Algeria; France and USA Indochina/Vietnam; USA and UK - Iraq .....
... and all the other stuff. These were just off the top of my head.
No high ground.

The greatest hope is the Reconciliation process- tried and tested in Southern Africa. Involves honest admission as step 1. It has taken the human race all these millennia to begin to begin to begin ... how can any of us ask for other than forgiveness for our ancestors, our countries, our religions, our races.

[John Parslow]

Hello all

Atticus
The bird may fly in any direction, do not condemn all the feathers.
The majority of the church are good kind people, they have helped me to hide on many occasions, when my so called friends were gone.

Caren
"The majority of the church are good kind people, they have helped me..."
Thank you Atticus - true words spoken from a very wise man. I also like "Walk a mile in my shoes" and "The golden rule" as well just for starters.
Please.. we need to stop JUDGING and CONDEMNING others and work on our COMPASSION and FORGIVENESS!!! (I am in no way singling out any one person here.) "I love you" - pass it on.. It's certainly OK to have our opinions and express them.. but wouldn't it be more fruitful to spend our valuable time thinking about ways we can help our beautiful Mother earth to heal?.. There is Never enough LOVE being shared.. I respectfully suggest we focus our energies on that please. The rest will fall into place. "Give Peace A Chance" Sir John
Love and Peace to all.

Greybeard
In spite of everything the church kept the teaching of Christ alive for 2010 years.
It is human nature to focus on what is wrong it would seem. The good is so common place it is almost not noticed. While I am not of any religion I used to drink with a Priest and he was a fascinating and caring man. In any organization you will find a certain % who are selfish out for themselves no matter the cost to others. Christ on the Cross "God forgive them for they know not what they do" Spiritually ignorant, they did not know any better. The first two Commandments say it all. Love God = Search ye first the Kingdom of Heaven = Heaven lies within = you true Divine Self. Love thy fellow man = your very own true Self = Only One Consciousness. So if we claim to be on a spiritual path we have to look for the good in all without exception. It may be difficult to find but it is within all.
Love all serve all.

I have a tendency to agree wholeheartedly with all of the above. I am not a ‘religious’ man but have faith in many who are believers. My own father was a lay-preacher in the Baptist church and one could not wish to meet a kinder more gentle man who went out of his way to assist others and I am sure this is the case with the greater majority of people who dedicate their energies; time and money and indeed lives to the service of others - please do not tar all ‘religions’ with the same brush - all are made up from disparate peoples everywhere; some bad; some angelic - just learn to love all races; colours; creeds with the same compassion and the world will be much better for it.

My love and peace to all. JP

[plumr2007]

Posted by Icecold (here)
That's not the point. OK they were all fooled. The question is WHY are they remaining in a criminal organisation? When you have knowledge you act on it. Their actions or lack of action is the reality, catholics that remain in the organisation are as guilty as the perpetrators by the act of complicity and support.

The best way to change an organization is from within. There are two choices here, either scrap the entire concept of the Church and lose the good as well as the bad or attempt a change from within. As mrmalco pointed out so well in the above post there are no religions or organizations or countries or ideologies that are free from blame . But a change from within will be I think the better result if one maintains the knowledge that the Church teaches. That we all have a soul and it is worth saving. If you get that from the Catholic Church or Buddhism so be it, its better than not having it at all.

[RedeZra]

Posted by aikya (here)
I will have a look and see if I can find some links to information which would confirm this, but there seems to be a widespread misunderstanding that 'The Crown' means 'the Queen' or 'the British Crown', when in fact it means the 'Crown Temple' based in the City of London, which is private and separate from the British Crown, and which I believe is ultimately under the control of the Vatican.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crown

The Crown is a corporation sole that in the Commonwealth realms, as well as in any provincial or state sub-divisions thereof, represents the legal embodiment of governance, whether executive, legislative, or judicial.

It evolved naturally first in the United Kingdom as a separation of the literal crown and property of the nation state from the person and personal property of the monarch; a concept which then spread via British colonisation and is now rooted in the legal lexicon of the other 15 independent realms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crown


Yes we are governed by materialistic merchants

---

Posted by Teakai (here)

Gospel of Thomas:
39. Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so.

He is talking about Judaism ; )

[Lifesong]

Posted by Atticus (here)
The bird may fly in any direction,do not condemn all the feathers.

The majority of the church are good kind people,they have helped me to hide on many occasions,when my so called friends were gone.

Perhaps enough feathers with a common mind may alter the bird's course.

The alternative community, to me, seems more and more expansive:
The Well: Awakening to Our Place in the Universe Story
Sisters of Saint Joseph
Springtime Sabbatical
May 9 - June 19, 2011

[Teakai]

Posted by RedeZra (here)
He is talking about Judaism ; )

He was talking about the Pharisees and the scholars - and they're still doing it. Different religion, same story.