"Eat more MEAT" - but it is "meat" from PLANTS, not animals

[Hym]

Many years back, when SNE/mad cow disease was seen in parts of Colorado I was concerned with these same friends of mine possibly eating those wild meats infected with it. They all assured me that they could tell when they are hunting if an animal has contracted it. They told me of a lethargy, of the unhealthy condition of the skin and hairs and the way the animal moved. None of them had any problems, but I too was aware of the possibilities of the dangers in consuming infected wild meats.

Alzheimer's may some day be called Type 3 Diabetes because of the correlation it has to diabetes. Common threads as to cause, diet, and gene expressions.

[Bob]

Posted by Hym (here)
Many years back, when SNE/mad cow disease was seen in parts of Colorado I was concerned with these same friends of mine possibly eating those wild meats infected with it. They all assured me that they could tell when they are hunting if an animal has contracted it. They told me of a lethargy, of the unhealthy condition of the skin and hairs and the way the animal moved. None of them had any problems, but I too was aware of the possibilities of the dangers in consuming infected wild meats.

Alzheimer's may some day be called Type 3 Diabetes because of the correlation it has to diabetes. Common threads as to cause, diet, and gene expressions.

I've seen tumors on deer, frighteningly large on the necks, and have seen "stupid elk", where they are excessively "friendly", and exhibiting all the symptoms, and not too long ago (within 3 years). Where it comes from is potentially alarming.. if the belief is from Prions. I've wondered about bio-terrorism.. Having traveled past the feedlots in Colorado, Texas, and Wyoming, I have never been impressed, the stench is very reminiscent of the "flavor" within that particular meat.. The buffalo are different, sorta like "free-range", mountain grass, away from the cities.. I must admit I am very fond of wild open range antelope from Wyoming, properly prepared..

[Noelle]

The crumbles are good in burritos or chilli, with Mexican spices, but also with curry, cooked with unrefined coconut oil or olive oil, coconut milk, etc. The chicken tenders are good too, spiced up, of course.

[Bob]

Posted by LadyM (here)
The crumbles are good in burritos or chilli, with Mexican spices, but also with curry, cooked with unrefined coconut oil or olive oil, coconut milk, etc. The chicken tenders are good too, spiced up, of course.

I'd like to try the crumbles and their intense burger and see how they compare to my familiarity with a very good buffalo burger. What turns me off from normal animal burgers is the "tallow" or "rancid wax-like taste".. I can only imagine that 'wax' becoming part of my cells, lodging in the blood stream, forming awful plaque.. If changing to plant based (properly processed) products reduces that plating of goo/plaque on the blood vessels, everywhere in the body, certainly that can be healthful..

Prions worry me.. Maybe a responsible hunter may notice an animal and not choose to shoot it.. But from experience at 200 yards away, a hunter may not spend much time analyzing what is about to be shot, especially sitting in a blind for 4 or 5 hours in the cold.. They may shoot anything.. Feedlots.... ugh.. I know people who worked on the electronics, the scales and monitors for measuring out the "feed", the horror stories are not for public posting.. (sigh)..

[Isserley]

I do not understand the need to imitate the taste / concept of eating meat .. The idea should be to discover new foods and create new delicious plant-based flavours with no artificial flavor enhancers.
In addition, we are not much further away from eating meat as long as there is a need for the taste of meat.
But in some strange way I supose it still is a step in the right direction.

[eko]

I am vegan and think this is wonderful.

[Tarazeda]

I loved to eat meat but I turned into vegetarian overnight after a flu virus which I think altered my DNA. Since this happened 5 years ago I cannot eat meat at all, I don't feel the need even to eat food that tastes like meat.
I cook my food from scratch and use processed food very occasionally.
Everything that significantly modifies the plant tissue is no good for human consumption because it alters the natural cell pattern and realigns these cells geometrically. This creates unknown for the human body substances which are difficult to bring nutritional value into the body. Additionally such products require artificial and semi artificial flavoring to resemble edible matter. Usually this is achieved by adding MSG to it. MSG has so many names and is not listed as such. The insidious nature of MSG is that it may occur whenever a protein is broken down in the body.

MSG is made when the free glutamic acid binds with a sodium molecule. Whenever protein is broken down in the body, glutamic acid is freed from a protein (in which it naturally occurs), and you have the potential of free glutamic acid building up in the blood and a possible toxic MSG reaction. Yeast Extract, yeast protein, textured protein and even gelatin contain or are MSG.
That's why I try to avoid even healthy organic stuff and stick as much as possible to the locally sourced veggies.

[Pam]

Great thread, Bob!! There are some really good points made. Beyond Meat is a product that I really like and Gardein is another one that produces quality meat alternatives. I do agree that they are processed foods and anything processed is not as good as unadulterated natural foods. I do remember the days that all of the meat alternative foods were created from soy, so the fact that they have moved away from that is positive. I wasn't aware that MSG was used in their products. I do know that they can add that under the heading of "natural flavors". If given the choice, though, I would pick MSG over the antibiotics given to animals.

I think if used judiciously with lots of other healthy food they can be a really easy way to avoid eating meat products. One of the benefits is that you never get a piece of tough meat. It is always consistent in taste and texture and all of it will be edible. If one finds it tastes different , if you use it for awhile your taste buds will most likely adapt to the differences. I have come to appreciate the taste and like their products better then my memory of meat, although I admit it has been 20 years since I have had any. I also believe it is more economic. I am blown away whenever I look at what a piece of meat costs vs a bag of meat alternative products.

[Akasha]

I posted on another alternative here and mentioned Beyond Meat here (albeit without your very effective fanfare fanfare, Bob ) a while back. The Impossible Burger was still in the final stages of development at the time but has since been released to a select number of restaurants in San Fransisco, Los Angeles and New York and will be available in supermarkets once the company gets up to speed.

Looks pretty juicy!

https://www.impossiblefoods.com/

[Bob]

Posted by peterpam (here)
Great thread, Bob!! There are some really good points made. Beyond Meat is a product that I really like and Gardein is another one that produces quality meat alternatives. I do agree that they are processed foods and anything processed is not as good as unadulterated natural foods. I do remember the days that all of the meat alternative foods were created from soy, so the fact that they have moved away from that is positive. I wasn't aware that MSG was used in their products. I do know that they can add that under the heading of "natural flavors". If given the choice, though, I would pick MSG over the antibiotics given to animals.

I think if used judiciously with lots of other healthy food they can be a really easy way to avoid eating meat products. One of the benefits is that you never get a piece of tough meat. It is always consistent in taste and texture and all of it will be edible. If one finds it tastes different , if you use it for awhile your taste buds will most likely adapt to the differences. I have come to appreciate the taste and like their products better then my memory of meat, although I admit it has been 20 years since I have had any. I also believe it is more economic. I am blown away whenever I look at what a piece of meat costs vs a bag of meat alternative products.

Hia - thanks for the positivity

I haven't heard that MSG is used in the Beyond Meat products.

I have gotten some preliminary feedback from one of their management team, and I am awaiting some feedback from the CEO about what they do in processing.. Organic meat (cows for instance) are aged, so that is a type of processing by the bacteria which works on the flesh.. Eating something raw certainly then is only processed in the mouth by the enzymes and mastication by the teeth on the food.. Then where the processing starts probably is the focus, and how much natural verses "man assisted" processing happens.. so what is "the processing" is what we are all asking about..

As to taste buds.. I really am turned off by the "tallow taste" from beef.. When I went fully veggie for 6 months, I could easily smell a "meat eater" as they got close.. The senses deaden apparently when a substance is consumed over time. I didn't feel healthier with just veggie as my system wasn't "processing" the raw material properly.. So for me, understanding the "processing" of the protein so that it is properly absorbed is a critical aspect of any meat substitute products

[Zionbrion]

Unfortunatley first thing I noticed is nothing is organic. Every product contains yeast extract which is a type of MSG. Canola oil in most.
Heres my recipies for meat alternatives that are made with whole foods. Some do contain eggs though.

If you want 'beef' crumble take tempeh and pan fry it with oil and onions...then spice according to dish whether pasta or tacos etc...

If you want a 'beef' patty, mix black beans, shredded veggies like carrot and zuchini, shredded red beet. Blend an egg or two with half an onion, and any other spices you like. mix in wheat or rice flour and mix all together slightly smashing the beans. Pour a little oil and fry in a cast iron.

For "chicken" mix together flour, eggs, salt and spices of your choice into a very goopy sticky texture. Then pull off small bits and drop i to boiling water. They cook really fast. Then after they are drained fry them in a bit of oil and use in place of chicken.

You want some chicken wings? Dip strips of tofu into flour and deep fry, you could also bake i suppose, when finished smother in a mixture of 50/50 tobasco/butter

Cravin bacon? Use either young fresh coconut or japanese eggplant(the long thin bright purple). Slice into strips and fry them add salt, pepper and some spring onion.

[Desire]

Thanks Bob, I'll check it out. I've been off meat very early on in my life. I feel healthy and have been mistaken for much younger than I am .I did it primarily because of the terrible way they treat animals. No compassion no kindness. That's wrong IMO.

[Bob]

Posted by Zionbrion (here)
Unfortunatley first thing I noticed is nothing is organic. Every product contains yeast extract which is a type of MSG. Canola oil in most.
Heres my recipies for meat alternatives that are made with whole foods. Some do contain eggs though.

If you want 'beef' crumble take tempeh and pan fry it with oil and onions...then spice according to dish whether pasta or tacos etc...

If you want a 'beef' patty, mix black beans, shredded veggies like carrot and zuchini, shredded red beet. Blend an egg or two with half an onion, and any other spices you like. mix in wheat or rice flour and mix all together slightly smashing the beans. Pour a little oil and fry in a cast iron.

For "chicken" mix together flour, eggs, salt and spices of your choice into a very goopy sticky texture. Then pull off small bits and drop i to boiling water. They cook really fast. Then after they are drained fry them in a bit of oil and use in place of chicken.

You want some chicken wings? Dip strips of tofu into flour and deep fry, you could also bake i suppose, when finished smother in a mixture of 50/50 tobasco/butter

Cravin bacon? Use either young fresh coconut or japanese eggplant(the long thin bright purple). Slice into strips and fry them add salt, pepper and some spring onion.

Where did you determine that (webpage or image off the package):

• "nothing is organic",
• who's product, and
• where specifically does it say that?
• Where does it say MSG is added?

Organically grown (if that is the issue being pointed out) does not necessarily mean that there are not contaminants present, just that fertilizing is different, pest treatment is different.. NON-GMO is important, probably more-so important than "certified organically grown"..

Salts or flavorings, additives that you listed in your recipes may not be "organically grown"; so just saying, a generalization does not really convince me that any product is good or bad..

I did see a listing of the ingredients in the "The Impossible Burger" by a company different than the OP post 1 listing.. but I didn't see you specify that it was the "Impossible Foods" company product line.. (clarification please).. https://www.impossiblefoods.com/faq/

In this thread we are focusing on the startup "Beyond Meat" - I am curious how their product compares with my favorite organically raised and humanely processed buffalo burger. Of course getting into recipe's is wonderful ! What results we all have had with competing products, with veggie protein products how our reactions have been. I am interested in all that.

I don't like the cost or taste of feedlot harvested cattle or pigs, chickens, turkeys, nor farm raised fish, nor the taste of those products. Finding healthy alternatives with properly digested protein without any allergic reactions or phytoestrogens certainly is a goal.

[Bob]

Certified organically grown does not mean certified pathogen free...

the PDF below is at this link: http://lib.dr.iastate.edu/cgi/viewco...40&context=etd

There has been a steady increase in the demand for organic and sustainable agricultural products.

Consumers increasingly prefer non – GMO products grown without pesticides and antibiotics. In order to satisfy the increasing demand, several agricultural producers have opted for use of different types of modern agricultural practices which are more efficient and sustainable than conventional methods.

My research focuses on two such modern agricultural practices.

Because the products from these methods do not have many food safety interventions applied to them, it is important to make sure that they are free of pathogens and are safe for human consumption.

My research 1) Identifies the food safety hazards associated with an aquaponic food production system and studies the efficacy of UV intervention, and 2) Evaluates the food safety status of the initial phase of an integrated crop-livestock organic agricultural system.

Aquaponics is a growing trend in food production as it is seen as a sustainable, space- and energy-efficient approach for production of fruits, vegetables and seafood. Within aquaponics, few microbial studies have been conducted to determine the food safety status of its units.

The report documents contamination due to the fertilizer containing pathogens, and the water used in the "organic farming" operation containing pathogens..

Personally I have had more instances of food borne contamination from eating "properly washed" organic produce than regular conventional non-gmo produce. Giardia has been the most awful, followed by something resembling e. coli. Probably also Listeria considering some of the symptoms.. Washing does not get rid of the problems, not for me at least, and I am not thrilled having to use so much hydrogen peroxide in my organic foods to try to alleviate pathogens..

Which is why I would prefer to have a properly processed pea protein which doesn't have contamination issues to deal with. I am not thrilled with Tofu (Soy protein strips)..

[Rich]

Humans are the only animals that cook their food, it's not the same after it has been cooked.

[Bob]

Posted by EmEx (here)
Humans are the only animals that cook their food, it's not the same after it has been cooked.

I just can't handle raw dough, even if it is cookie dough icecream.. And I just can't fathom an under-done pizza

from - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/fo...it-cooked.html

• Cooking carrots increases the antioxidant carotenoid content
• Tomatoes benefit from being heated as powerful lycopene is activated
• Avoid overcooking vegetables as too many vitamins are lost otherwise

In other words, some benefits wouldn't be there if the proper temperature cooking is not performed. Eating raw in some cases keeps the toxins IN the food and doesn't de-activate them..

Heating certain vegetables can help to breakdown their fibres and so release minerals for absorption. Overcooking them however is a definite no-no as many vital minerals and vitamins are lost..

Tomatoes, spinach, carrots, asparagus and mushrooms are five vegetables and fungi which are much better for you when consumed cooked.

Mel Wakeman, nutrition expert and Senior Lecturer in Applied Physiology at Birmingham City University told FEMAIL: 'Many of the nutrients found in plants are often less readily absorbed in the gut compared to nutrients derived from animal products.

'The fibre found in plants often binds particularly to minerals and makes them less available for the body to use (their bioavailability).' Therefore certain foods being cooked 'just right' frees up the nutrients.

Carrots are rich in carotenoids which give them their vivid orange colour. Heating carrots can increase the carotenoid content which can provide many benefits as they have powerful antioxidant properties.

'Common wisdom says cooked food has lower nutritional value compared to fresh produce, but that's not always true,' said Rui Hai Liu, a professor in the department of food science at Cornell University who studied how heat affects food..

The cooking of broccoli produced increased levels of polyphenols, glucosinolates, beta-carotene, lutein, alpha- and gamma-tocopherols, and antioxidant activity when compared to raw broccoli. Vitamin C did decrease in boiled broccoli.

The bottom line with mushrooms is that cooking removes the mild carcinogenic substances they contain and allows the anticancer polysaccharides to be released from the hard to digest cell structure of the fungus. For this reason, you may wish to skip the raw mushrooms on the salad bar and choose to eat them cooked.

The enzymes that are present in raw foods are destroyed when the food is cooked or heated above 116-118 degrees F. This applies to fruits, vegetables, dairy products, nuts, oils, and meats. The important question here is whether the destruction of enzymes represents a serious concern for people who seek to maintain good health and live a long life.

Therefore the proper TEMPERATURE for cooking is important.. overdo it and a lot is lost, doing it just right and the benefits can be amplified..

[amor]

I have not eaten anything but fish and chicken after hearing about mad cow disease.
My dream is for plant biologists to devise plants to be grown in the wild that the wild creatures, and humans, may eat anywhere in the wild bearing all the nutrients required for a healthy life. This, in the belief that if animals can satisfy their hunger easily, they will be less likely to wish to kill to eat. If only humans were that simple to deal with. Life in the wild and in so called civilization, dealing with animals, is too viscious. We need a kinder world. Animals are going extinct because of over killing and because there is not enough nourishing food and WATER for them in the wild. We can have solar pumps working wells and providing water for wild animals and nutritious growing plants instead of creating war and poverty and misery for all. I cannot believe our Prime Creator wishes this to continue.

On the subject of Soy, I have read that the Chinese only eat Soy which has been altered by enzyme action. Possibly, this curtails the phytoestrogens which would otherwise cause cancers. Spread the dream and someone out there will meet it.

[Bubu]

A big "NO" to any food that goes through human manipulation. Preservatives works much like "anti-bio- tech" it kills all life forms but slower and unnoticeable on humans compared to germs. My observation is that ones preservatives and other toxins found in process food accumulates it inflames and hardened arteries. Blood and all its components will have difficulty flowing through. thus we get high blood pressure or heart issues. A good example is a water circulating system, as in cooling system. If flow in the system is restricted we get high pressure and premature pump breakdown or worst bursting of tubes (veins for humans). Arthritis is another inflamed arteries issue. One health issue gets you hook on pills (more toxins) and therefore more health issues

Although I eat mostly fruits and veggies there are days which I eat mostly meat can last for couple of days up to two weeks. I have come along way from a weakened old man to an energetic and youthful man and am getting healthier each day simply by trusting taste buds and gut feeling and a touch of common sense. These senses are there for a reason.
diversity is such that no one rule apply to the same person at all times. In my case I consume more natural sugar than all the other 8 people in the household combined close to double I think. This is abnormal and I dont encourage anyone to do it but it serves me well. I'm 51 and not once diagnose with HBS or HBP although these health issues runs in the family mother and father side at a 9 to 1 ratio. Ever heard the man who ate boats and airplanes.
do yourself a favor listen to you not to them. And before you think of banning meat eating on earth think of the lions and company

[Bob]

Posted by Bubu (here)
A big "NO" to any food that goes through human manipulation. Preservatives works much like "anti-bio- tech" it kills all life forms but slower and unnoticeable on humans compared to germs. My observation is that ones preservatives and other toxins found in process food accumulates it inflames and hardened arteries. Blood and all its components will have difficulty flowing through. thus we get high blood pressure or heart issues. A good example is a water circulating system, as in cooling system. If flow in the system is restricted we get high pressure and premature pump breakdown or worst bursting of tubes (veins for humans). Arthritis is another inflamed arteries issue. One health issue gets you hook on pills (more toxins) and therefore more health issues

Although I eat mostly fruits and veggies there are days which I eat mostly meat can last for couple of days up to two weeks. I have come along way from a weakened old man to an energetic and youthful man and am getting healthier each day simply by trusting taste buds and gut feeling and a touch of common sense. These senses are there for a reason.
diversity is such that no one rule apply to the same person at all times. In my case I consume more natural sugar than all the other 8 people in the household combined close to double I think. This is abnormal and I dont encourage anyone to do it but it serves me well. I'm 51 and not once diagnose with HBS or HBP although these health issues runs in the family mother and father side at a 9 to 1 ratio. Ever heard the man who ate boats and airplanes.
do yourself a favor listen to you not to them. And before you think of banning meat eating on earth think of the lions and company

The Beyond Meat product is FROZEN not containing preservatives...

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by amor (here)
I have not eaten anything but fish and chicken after hearing about mad cow disease.
My dream is for plant biologists to devise plants to be grown in the wild that the wild creatures, and humans, may eat anywhere in the wild bearing all the nutrients required for a healthy life. This, in the belief that if animals can satisfy their hunger easily, they will be less likely to wish to kill to eat. If only humans were that simple to deal with. Life in the wild and in so called civilization, dealing with animals, is too viscious. We need a kinder world. Animals are going extinct because of over killing and because there is not enough nourishing food and WATER for them in the wild. We can have solar pumps working wells and providing water for wild animals and nutritious growing plants instead of creating war and poverty and misery for all. I cannot believe our Prime Creator wishes this to continue.

On the subject of Soy, I have read that the Chinese only eat Soy which has been altered by enzyme action. Possibly, this curtails the phytoestrogens which would otherwise cause cancers. Spread the dream and someone out there will meet it.

Isn't it fascinating that there are folks that freak out when they hear "enzyme" modification, or yeast modification?

Anyone care to describe how SOY sauce is made

[Bob]

Posted by amor (here)
I have not eaten anything but fish and chicken after hearing about mad cow disease.
My dream is for plant biologists to devise plants to be grown in the wild that the wild creatures, and humans, may eat anywhere in the wild bearing all the nutrients required for a healthy life. This, in the belief that if animals can satisfy their hunger easily, they will be less likely to wish to kill to eat. If only humans were that simple to deal with. Life in the wild and in so called civilization, dealing with animals, is too viscious. We need a kinder world. Animals are going extinct because of over killing and because there is not enough nourishing food and WATER for them in the wild. We can have solar pumps working wells and providing water for wild animals and nutritious growing plants instead of creating war and poverty and misery for all. I cannot believe our Prime Creator wishes this to continue.

On the subject of Soy, I have read that the Chinese only eat Soy which has been altered by enzyme action. Possibly, this curtails the phytoestrogens which would otherwise cause cancers. Spread the dream and someone out there will meet it.

This is a very good and well thought out post. Thanks

There has been some concern about chicken (see the mention of TYSON in an earlier Post).. Fish, depends on if it is wild caught or from "fish farms"...

Both issues worry me, besides the Prion issue with human controlled harvesting of food animals. So looking towards a good plant protein keeps me active in finding out who is at the cutting edge of research..