Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

[Chester]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)

Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
...
One question I have for Dennis.

Dennis, your view appears to me to be quite parsimonious ...
...

I'm not sure about your use of the word 'parsimonious', in the context you're using it. Parsimonious means 'frugal.'

Anyway, sure, I am open to possibilities - I just don't elevate them to 'probabilities.'

Again, I don't know. At least I know that I don't know. My worldview is wrong - it HAS to be, because I am in the dark about so much that is hidden from me. My concept of "the Elite" is wrong for the same reason. Worst of all, there are probably tidbits of the truth about the Elite mixed in with a massive amount of disinformation and conjecture from researchers that sincerely believe that they know the whole truth, so even the pool of knowledge is polluted. Best guess from the best researcher is still just a guess.

Honestly, I consider anything I would write about the inner workings of the Elite to be at best a notch or two below an educated guess, because the missing data doesn't even allow me to make an educated guess. I think I am just one of the few to admit that. But, I'll offer my thoughts for what it's worth/worthless:

[myUneducatedGuess]From my (limited) research, it appears to me that the group of people that I generally call "the Elite" are more complex and less organized than the simplistic view I held years ago. I had visualized a simple pyramid-shaped (or as John Perkins notes, a pyramid with a tall spire) hierarchical structure. I envisioned a top tier occupied by a single man (I snarkily referred to earlier as "Megalo Don", the top Global Mafia Don.) I later dismissed that notion, and replaced it with the idea of a small cluster of men - themselves representing their empires/"Families"/families, and unified only in limitless global greed and thirst for power - and a handshake (or a board seat) to 'work the system' together. I think there are a few highly dangerous factions of the Elite, such as the militaristic, corporatist, imperialists commanding the US military and what appears to be a different faction commanding the CIA/Deep State covert military. These Elite factions appear not to all be working together towards the exact same agenda.

My best guess on the satanic stuff within the Elite is that some of them are "all in" (and believe it confers magical powers) and most of the rest of the attendees at satanic rituals and sacrifices show up because they are expected to and their absence would be seen as suspicious. Like the Dutch guy that enjoyed the naked women at the Elite satanic parties, but balked at witnessing human sacrifice, was probably seen as suspicious by the group (and I think the Dutch guy is lucky to still be alive and talking about it.) Yes, I do believe there is an immense amount of blackmail/threats used to glue the perps and witnesses together, to keep the dark secrets. And, I think a lot of politicians have been blackmailed (with pedophilia probably used as the main blackmail tool) as well.

I think there is a strong possibility that shifting the seemingly inhuman level of evil away from humans and onto "aliens" or even "archons" is a "deus ex machina" cop-out. There is no crime in history that would be impossible for humans to perpetrate. With zero personal experience with "aliens", I have no idea what their agenda is. Reading Wade Frasiers work convinces me that actual free-energy technology is so transformative that it would end any sort of logical reason for aliens to come and plunder Earth. And why would aliens allow the spoils of planetary war that they are orchestrating to go into the coffers of the banks and "defense" contractors? I suspect that some ET technology has been reverse-engineered, but not that ETs are in control of Earth.[/myUneducatedGuess]

See, I told you it was worthless.

POW! I suddenly felt I just met a brother from another mother... Your entire "world view" is almost exactly the same view I now hold with but perhaps one more thing I would add in expressing mine and that is this -

My current metaphysical, cosmological world view allows for this - (the picture you shared)... this much more greatly detailed and far more closer to home world view - to exist within my more expanded view best labeled to be monistic idealism. I can imagine that you might also have an expanded view and yet just didn't share it but perhaps not. Regardless, not only do I see all that you wrote about almost exactly as you do, but I am also (and only recently... say in the last year or so) at about the same levels of "I don't know" as you expressed.

The only place where I sense an obvious difference is in where we might land on the political spectrum. Note I am glad Trump won both now and when he did. But it might surprise folks as to why and perhaps someone will ask.

My use of the word "parsimonious" was a compliment in the way I meant it which simply means that I saw the picture you paint to follow the protocols of Occam's Razor - see here.

[Helene West]

Sam
Just look through his posts for today in Transition into Trump, you'll see it.
Anyway, upon more reflection of your stated desire for 'solutions' and since I believe solutions weren't/aren't part of the plans of those who rule us I'll be bowing out of this thread with all due respect to your big heart. There are those in congress who are capable of making some good changes but congress is very large, very divided and very bought off. I think I made it plain what I feel much of immigration today is about. It's so threatening to some here was a censorship alert! lol. And don't take it as you have previously that some of us feel hopeless that wasn't true. I'm more of a pessimist than many but if I felt hopeless I wouldn't vote nor be participating in a forum like this. I'd be mumbling to myself alone with a bottle of jack daniels and that ain't moi...

[Atlas]

post removed

[zen deik]

When I hear someone say politically incorrect... Or racist... I think someone has had their inferiority button pushed... Or an over compensation for some unearned burden of guilt...you cannot legislate morality.... Or racism away...

[DNA]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
I think that you passionately believe that you know the intent of the elite, but you don't and I don't.

Dr. John Coleman told us what the elite were doing in 1993. Dr. John Coleman told us that the middle class would be under constant attack due to a New World Order that was being implemented and that the greatest obstacle would be the American Middle Class. He went on to say how the Clintons were going to do their best to destroy the American Middle Class and how prophetic he looks now. Alex Jones and David Icke both owe a lot of their knowledge to Dr. John Coleman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRqx1YgIBMw

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=rRqx1YgIBMw

Combined with this we have the testimonies of Phil Schnieder who tells us the exact same things in terms of a One World Government that is the goal of these globalists and the destruction of the United States. Folks can debate the worthiness of Phil's UFO information but I've always felt he incapsulated the intent of the elite rather well.
And I 100% believe that he helped build underground cities that have the sole functions of allowing the elite a home that is fortified against what is intended for the rest of us.

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
A set of data points means something different to you (and yes, I recognize that what you're saying is a common viewpoint for alternative media sites' members - but that doesn't mean it is correct.) I think you (and many people) give the elite much more credit than is due. If they actually had the power attributed to them, they would already be in complete control and would be unstoppable. Their muscle (the US military and/or paid faux-Muslim mercenaries) is basically pulling off robberies of entire nations, people are scattering, and no one knows or cares where they scattered to. That's my take. The elite are mobsters, not global 3-dimensional chess grandmasters - or it would have already been checkmate. They are not nearly as strong in a coordinated agenda as you attribute to them.

People are not just scattering and this is very important so try to pay attention here.
The United States know how to invade a country and leave it in well enough shape to care and fend for itself. They did this with Japan in WWII.
Many people have leveled much needed criticism at Donald Rumsfield, Dick Cheney and George W Bush for having destroyed Iraq while not maintaining or policing the country. They CREATED a refugee situation. Why would they do this?
DynCorp and Haloburtion were both busted in the late 90's participating in human trafficking.WHAT? Yes human trafficking, and here is Cynthia McKinney a US Rep grilling Donald Rumsfield on how and why the USA is still employing contractors who have been caught smuggling women and children via a human trafficking operation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px1t1-a9uxk&t=206s
Here is what is going on.
When the USA invades a country like they were caught doing in Yogoslavia, they set up orphanages and the like and prepare those children who are then shipped on boats owned by contractors. These children are sold to pedophile networks in the United States and Europe.
These children are considered expendible, as such they are tortured beyond the realms we would think possible until their complicance is absolute and they are usually disposed of within a couple of years.
Why do I mention all of this.
Because they had no use for the men until now.
Now, just as human trafficking was one of their incentives for invading countries in the middle east, the exportation of agent provacatures into countries like the USA and Europe are now on that incentive list.

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)

Posted by DNA (here)
You seem to be apologizing for all the rape and murder the muslims have done in Europe and attribute it to a lack of assimilation.

That's really a BS comment. I am neither apologizing for any rape nor any murder by anyone. That was a terrible thing to say. And you know that I never attributed rape and murder to lack of assimilation. Those are baseless accusations. If I said something you disagree with, quote it back, in context. Don't just make **** up.

Your comment here is rather dismissive. As if there is no rape and murder going on Europe due to their recent Muslim influx.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUDf9YOgCQI

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=CUDf9YOgCQI

As we see in France the reason far right candidates are winning in the poles is because of the refugee problem they don't want anymore to do with.
Now if France and Sweden and Germany are having this much of a problem with muslims raping and murdering how do you think the USA is going to do? The USA is responsible for the refugee problem in the first place, along with killing millions and millions of Muslims.

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)

Posted by DNA (here)
The globalists want a ONE WORLD ORDER and in order to get it they have to DESTROY THE MIDDLE CLASS.
Destroying America and the European countries that have a decent standard of living is what they are doing now and it is pretty transparent.

Sorry, but this sounds like something hyperbolic out of the movie Reefer Madness. Your premise makes no sense.

That is the kind of argument I would expect out of a disrespectful news correspondant like Bill O'Reilly. This is the kind of response that is no longer looking for a healthy information exchange but instead is more concerned with being right and slandering anyone with a dissenting opinion.
There are many on this forum who agree with my bolded text above, and when you slander me in this context you are slandering a large portion of the Avalon forum.

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
I think that you don't understand our enemy and our enemy's network, and you attribute a nearly magical power to them.

I'm being honest when I say this. I wish I was as naïve as you are. To live carefree and worry free due to an extreme lack of understanding of the world would be welcoming compared with knowing the truth. You've never been on the Avalon pizza-gate threads and I don't blame you, they are a freaking bummer.
But here is the Truth.


The elite practice pedophilia and child sacrifice to insure the silence and cooperation of their members. The elite also believe, they actually believe that there is a dark entity that they worship and perform regular sacrifices to in order to insure that entity's good favor. This maneuver which has been co-opted by the CIA insures that the person who has perpetuated in such acts is indeed someone who will always keep their mouth shut and do what they are told. This isn't done all honest like. As a member of the elite they spring this on you. One day you are laughing and cavorting it up at a bohemian grove ceremony worshiping the idol Moloch and then the next time they just spring this on you with the caveat that if you try and weasel out of this and or tell anybody about it you will be killed.

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
They are just the elite scum that own everything, and they skim off of as many different transactions on the planet as possible. They are thugs - killing, torturing, robbing, raping, and pillaging is their modus operandi. If you have ever seen a visual representation of "the elite" network, it should be apparent that the vast, vast majority of the elite do not want to destroy the middle class that are a dependable supply of cashflow -

Again you are not doing your homework.
The Georgia Guidestones state to keep the population of the world under 500,000,000.
Conversely this is exactly what the elite want to reduce the population of the planet to.
This is what the REPORT FROM IRON MOUNTAIN states.
That the carrying capacity of the earth has been reached in so far as human beings are concerned and if the human race is to survive then the earth's human population has to be severely culled.
This is why we have GMO's, vaccines, pesticides, preservatives and flouride seriously altering the possible life span of human beings and causing disease.
Kevin Trudeau stated in a book that the elite wish to cull the population of the earth and that they are doing so with poisoned food and poisoned pharmaceutical medicines in order to accomplish this. His only recommendation to fight this was to eat Organic food. He got ten years in prison for this. http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...317-story.html
Bill Gates has been pushing for a Eugenics program unapologetically.
You see Greed comes in all forms.
You have a very limited idea of Greed if you think it can only be demonstrated though the constant accumulation of money.
When faced with the prospect that you will have no more descendents, no living heirs to spend your money because the carrying capacity of the world can no longer support the resource exhaustive human being, then your greed is focused on making sure YOUR desendents will live and also YOUR legacy. Oh by the way here is David Icke talking about agenda 21 "the plan to kill you". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMeXSlGJZYc&t=1663s

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)

Posted by DNA (here)
For you to not see this means for all your capability you are blind for the most part.

I see you as too gullible (ingesting too much alt-groupthink on this issue) and

Two of Project Avalon's most pertinent interviews would disagree with you.
Pete Peterson and Jane Burgemiester both have views that run parallel to mine.
And for that matter, I hardly think Bill lives in Equador for the coconuts, but I'll let him speak for himself.

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)

Posted by DNA (here)
Do you really think the elite give a rat's ass for the muslim refugees and their well being?

No, I don't, and I never said they do. The people fleeing are the ones that ducked elite American bullets and elite American bombs, remember? When did I say that the elite cared about anyone but themselves? They are sociopaths.

When you agreed with the mainstream media's take that Muslim refugees should be welcomed into the USA with open arms you agreed with the Elite.

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
You're portraying the opposite message from the elite-controlled media than reality - with anti-Muslim sentiment (and pro-US and pro-NATO ) being pumped from almost all media,

Then why is it no longer acceptable to state the phrase "muslim extremism" in the media? And this across various nations, even Merkel rolled her eyes at Trump when he stated Muslim Extremism because the elite have been pushing a new agenda in so far as equating labeling someone a Muslim extremist as to make them a racist.

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)

Posted by DNA (here)
Why would the elite have the main stream media feigning such sympathy if not for an agenda?
You are correct in stating that 9/11 was completely staged and done by US insiders not a muslim contingency such as Al Queda, but the same cabal who orchestrated 9/11 never left power and it is quite evident in the actions of Obama. It was obvious in Hillary's stated agenda and it is obvious now that they have steered Trump into accomplishing their goals as well.
So why would these 9/11 conspirators want muslims in the western countries? This is all orchestration and I plead with you to exercise detachment and not succumb to the ploys for pity as communicated by the main stream media which we know is controlled 100% by the CIA who in turn are controlled 100% by the banking elite.
Why are all the main stream media channels broadcasting the same message? This should be a major red flag for you.

If there are more Muslims scattered around the planet, mixed-in with non-Muslims, the psychopaths running their phony, eternal, war on terror ruse would have an easier time scaring everyone, I suppose, since they have achieved their propaganda goal of implanting the meme: Muslims=terrorists to keep their war going forever.

You are not keeping up with the times. That was a decade ago. Why did the USA invade Iraq? Why did the USA invade Libya? Because they were instilling regime change for THE PEOPLE. They don't need an ISIS boogeyman anymore because people believe EVERTHING the mainstream media tells them.

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
Anyone propping-up that meme is helping the terrorists (and by "terrorists" I do mean the USA, INC. and its affiliated uber-mobsters.)

Not so, and that is the same kind of rhetoric George W Bush used when stating "you are either with us or against us".
I'm acknowledging a truth. That the USA has bombed the hell out of the Muslim world and as such they have sowed not a few seeds of discontent. This discontent will be unleashed should we move hundreds of thousands of angry recently bombed Muslim men into our country.

[Chester]

Posted by Helene West (here)
Sam
Just look through his posts for today in Transition into Trump, you'll see it.
Anyway, upon more reflection of your stated desire for 'solutions' and since I believe solutions weren't/aren't part of the plans of those who rule us I'll be bowing out of this thread with all due respect to your big heart. There are those in congress who are capable of making some good changes but congress is very large, very divided and very bought off. I think I made it plain what I feel much of immigration today is about. It's so threatening to some here was a censorship alert! lol. And don't take it as you have previously that some of us feel hopeless that wasn't true. I'm more of a pessimist than many but if I felt hopeless I wouldn't vote nor be participating in a forum like this. I'd be mumbling to myself alone with a bottle of jack daniels and that ain't moi...

Thanks Helene and thanks for showing me the exact place for the information you mentioned earlier. I will be referring to it in an upcoming post - here's the source...

http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...over-a-decade/

Please come back anytime but also, I understand your desire to leave the thread for now and honor your wish to do so though I will miss you.

[DNA]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
I think you (and many people) give the elite much more credit than is due...

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
I think that you don't understand our enemy and our enemy's network, and you attribute a nearly magical power to them...

I wish to empathize with your position. Our back and forth has conveyed an antagonistic tone and I apologize for allowing myself to dip so. I honestly mean no disrespect and your argument here is identical to the argument I had ten or so years ago so I completely understand your points here.
Not only do the elite use pedophilia and human sacrifice to insure an almost unimaginable loyalty though out their structure there is something more than that.
The elite do not have to actually be geniuses to take and use genius almost to an other wordly level in so far as implementing their manipulation of the masses.
The elite have been responsible for manipulating the masses based on privately funded research for decades. The Kinsey reports on human sexuality are an example of this. Funded almost entirely by the Rockefellers the Kinsey reports are responsible for portraying sex in a very skewed and unathentic light being as a large number of their sample base were convicted incarcerated felons in prison who were mostly sociopaths.
Further more the elite fund a college known as THE TAVISTOCK INSTITUTE OF HUMAN RELATIONS.
Research is done on how to manipulate the masses to create a desired effect. Research such as mass-brainwashing.
So my point is, that elite are capable of buying genius plans to implement though research grants and the like.
Jeff Rense and Dr. John Coleman discuss this in the link below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svEVXCXICow&t=530s

[Gemma13]

They CREATED a refugee situation. Why would they do this?

Never just “one” MO imho. And of course refugees provide multiple opportunities for detestable individuals/groups to capitalize on. Always short and long term MO’s. A “thought” re a long term MO supporting global domination agenda. (An agenda which of course would intelligently have multiple strategies on the chess board to ensure success, with psychology, imo, being a more powerful weapon than military muscle when we are no longer living in a world where those with “guns” can literally take over a country who only have “swords” when weaponry threat for colonization is currently generally at a global stale-mate due to retaliatory repercussions.)

Resources! In this case - Human Resource Bait! It would be exceedingly difficult to knock on someone’s door and “convert” them within their own home/family/culture (without physical/violent manipulation) and the few that you may succeed with have very little power attempting to then convert the community.

A percentage of refugees will become integrated, educated, socially successful, and fully indoctrinated into the Western World’s Cultural Ideologies. Within a few generations they (and their offspring) will be “prime candidates/ambassadors” to be sent back to their homelands as key instrumental links in a Global Domination Chain of Command. Because of their “historically fresh” traumas the subjective message to their homeland culture/people could well come across as a powerful coercion/conversion tactic to idolize the Western World as “The Global Savior”.

If successful, fast forward another generation or two where Western World Infrastructure/Ideology dominates, (but is of course networked into and governed by the controllers of this plan), and you have a weaponized strategy to weaken significantly, or at best, eradicate multiple sovereign cultures (within an approx. 100-150 year timeline, which is of course a blip to those playing the long game). Colonization by extraction (forced), conversion (psychological), and return (manipulated), as opposed to the ‘ol invasion strategies.

N.B. Those that choose to immigrate and adopt Western World Ideology would not have the same subjective psychological oomph needed to return and “preach” to their homeland citizens as a refugee would.
And of course the Western World Controllers are very good at protecting their turf by making sure only a required percentage enter the West for their generational indoctrination; the rest being collateral damage. http://www.unhcr.org/en-au/figures-at-a-glance.html

Another interesting perspective to consider is that to be successful with a one world government, (whether it be from nefarious agendas or peaceful ones), it would make sense for cultural integration/merging to morph into a peacefully acceptable “hybrid mixed culture” and I see the West being the melting pot for this transition; albeit still currently fraught with "factions" of psychological/subjective racial angst.

On an optimistic note: there is no guarantee for success of this “hypothetical” long term MO due to multiple known and unknown variables on our global table e.g. ethical technological and sustainability advancement, etc, all coupled to growing awareness of morally deficit psychological leadership.

[Atlas]

..........

[marique3652]

I have decided to put back up my previous comment that I deleted because I see it did not go away anyway, still in every one's comments. So here it is. Yes it does sound bigoted and I guess I am a bigot but so what? I have every much the right to say how I feel. Anyone who makes fun of my sharing of my feelings and criticizes me as a person and demeans me is a bigot too as they are bigoted against my feelings and opinions.

I agree up to a point that America should take in the poor, the homeless, the tempest tossed. However are we as a whole supposed to welcome people who hate us, are jealous, and want to destroy this country and take it over, to rape our women, cut off our daughter's clitorises, rape our children, beat our women, stone them and behead them or kill family members if they wish because they worship a murderous, bloodthirsty pedophile who advocated that anyone that does not believe in allah should be killed? As a freedom loving American I welcome immigrants but do not welcome people who wish us harm, and I am sorry if that makes me a bad person. Would you want a male Muslim babysitting for your children, and would you trust them alone with your daughters and wives. If the answer is no then that is because it is unwise to invite someone whom believes in violence and rape into your home. I just call that common sense. Would you put your child in a room with many poisonous snakes and some snakes that are not, would you risk it that they may get bitten by a poisonous snake. Just asking. Now I am sure you think me a bad American, but welcoming concept sometimes has to use some reasoning too. Muslims as a whole do not want to assimilate, they want to take over our country. I for one want a future for my granddaughter where she does not have to live in fear. I for one do not want to see life for women like back into the dark ages where they are just objects for a man's pleasure. I for one do not want to have to stay inside to avoid being raped or mugged or killed. Read the other day that some mayor in Sweden told the women to just get used to staying inside, and not going to public places as they may get raped or killed or both, and that they just should get used to it. I do not want that for America, but if you collectively do, then I guess I am a horrible person, a Muslimophobe. Sorry for the ramble but it makes me feel good to get it out, lol.

So there, I have said it again. There are words I would have changed, but I am keeping it the same.

[marique3652]

Posted by Helene West (here)
When I went to college my classes were 9 out of 10 caucasian. Now the same college is about 30-40% caucasian. I'm a minority group on public transportation. I also have had enough observation and experience to say that many of those replacing caucasians feel quite entitled to do so and I feel I'm being nice in describing some of their attitudes as simply entitlement. Many of them, along with leftists type, seem to believe that there is some natural organic non-manipulated migration going on. Though I believe there will always be immigration and migrations of humans I don't believe that is what has taken place in Europe and now in lesser degrees the U.S. and other (formerly?) white countries. It's anything but 'natural' immigration but a forced agenda by a small ruling class and not for any humane reasons as I've mentioned.

Life is change. It's nothing but change.
Racism is changing just like every other human phenomena.
I hold there is more racism in the present moment (not 50 or 150 years ago) going towards caucasians than coming from them. I go on twitter and there are open calls for white genocide happening in several venues. I don't believe there is enough being discussed in this regard.

I've never seen anyone called out before on this forum the way D Leahy post #44 named me, turiya and sam with implications (shall I say accusation or targeting?) of promoting bigotry. Accusations of racism is the #1 techniques being used in western culture to stifle caucasians from expressing their feelings in what is being done to their countries or their culture. I'm disappointed to see the same tired, trite technique used by him. There's a handful of people I've come to be uninterested in their line of thinking and I largely skip many of their posts. No one is forcing me to read their posts or carry on discussion or debate with them. I'm free to move on. After 7 months being here I never had need to use an Ignore button and I didn't even know if there was one. There is. I think people who are averse to the really free expression of ideas should use it.

Let me know if you find that "ignore" button, I may have to use it in the future. I should be added to the list of people who have been labeled a bigot for stating an opinion. Next time I am targeted sanctimoniously I will ignore that person with the magic ignore button, lol. Now to find it....There are ways to disagree with someone's viewpoint without name calling and labeling. Even if the opinion expressed is not a majority viewpoint. I have never said to another that their opinion does not belong on this site, nor have I ever shamed anyone for their opinion or ever made fun of someone because I don't think it is nice. I don't intend to now either. But I do say ouch when someone has crunched down on my toes.

[marique3652]

Thanks Helene, it makes me feel good that although I came off bigotty sounding at least you acknowledge I have a right to sharing my feelings, even though many may not like them. I did feel bullied actually, and labeled, but I see in rereading what I posted that I DID sound like a bigot, overgeneralizing. Guess it took being verbally spanked to think of better ways of expressing my concerns. That is my assignment for the day. Thank you Helene for supporting my right to share and participate on this forum.

[marique3652]

Posted by AutumnW (here)

Posted by Helene West (here)
"Those who use a megaphone to blast out directives to others to "wake up," need to wake up themselves. Get educated and acquire some historical perspective..."

Not even a little pot calling the kettle black here?? lol..

Anyhow, good luck to Sam. Hope he gets the satisfaction he was looking for in this thread.

I find the biggest megaphones are manned by those who have a bit of the big picture, extrapolate far too much from their tiny piece of reality. The alt right end up over interpreting -- weaving a web of 'logic' out of their dot connecting. Alex Jones is like a screaming spider on acid. His web starts off making sense and then becomes insane.

Nevertheless everybody's experience need to be taken into account, even of the conclusions they draw are off the mark.

Hahaha, love what you said about Alex Jones being like a screaming spider on acid! Will be seeing him sitting at his table with 8 legs screeching all day now, and laughing again and again. Thanks for the laugh, I needed one today.

[Chester]

Hi Marique, I am glad you decided to repost your post and to expand on it all. I sense that you may have some sad personal experience in this regard and if so, I wish you would share this because by doing so, this can help contributors and readers of this thread to better understand your frustrations (and anger) and perhaps we might gain context as to why.

To all -

For me this is very important because if we cannot understand each other, how can we find ways to rise above? I certainly don't see labeling folks or pointing to their behaviors in ways that appear as labeling... such as "bigot" as helping us get there, but also... I strive to understand why folks do this and I do not think that they are playing "social policeman" for the reasons they might think they do... I think doing this goes much deeper too. I want us to understand what is behind this.

I just hope folks can try and find a way to achieve some common ground where real dialogue can occur. In the case here with Marique... something has to have happened at a personal level... I hope, if true, she will post about it.

[marique3652]

Actually you are right Sam, something very traumatic has colored my viewpoints greatly. I am trying to overcome that. I have a dear woman friend in Irag whom I have corresponded with for many years. Many of my viewpoints have been formed listening to her tell me all about Muslim beliefs, Sharia law, and how the muslim culture views women and female children and their place in the world. Back in 2015 she wrote to me in horror. A group of muslim men subdued her at knife point and forced her to watch them gang rape her 9 year old daughter. They raped her until the horrific injuries added up and she died from the assault. Being the mother of 11 sons, I knew and understand her anger, hatred and horror of losing her only child to such a horrific attack. We still correspond and she is trying to deal with it, but she is struggling greatly and there is not a day that goes by that I do not get angry that a group of barbaric men thought that it was their right to do that to her daughter. Yes I have to admit, I see all the horrors of done by SOME Muslims behaviors and get really angry and apprehensive about our country getting flooded by those behaviors . I know it is not right to assume they are ALL like that, but my friend said that that is the customs and beliefs of Muslim religion and that those behaviors are greatly condoned by the majority of believers.. That is what I rail against those beliefs. Dennis, if I had said that I am horrified by child rapists, people who disfigure and maim the genitalia for life of little girls, women abusers, people who believe it ok to kill family members if they wish, that I have great trepidation for our country being overrun with child rapists, pedophiles, animal rapists, men who think nothing of stoning their wife to death, would you still call me a bigot? Just wondering? It was the saying the word Muslim that you found offensive I am sure. Yes I did do the faux pa by saying the M---sli- word. You compare me to
Fox news, but I compare you to mainstream media, so we are even, lol. MSM does not like the word Muslim extremeists and also like to whitewash all the horrors that have occurred that was done by M-----ms. My viewpoint is my viewpoint and that does not change. I have lost two of my son's to murder as well by a "minority group", and I struggle to make it not personal every day. I see things as a mother trying to protect my family and that will never change. Hope we can call a truce, all of you that feel I am a horrible person for being afraid for the future of the US. I have very personal reasons. If you were to check on the web you would be assaulted by headlines that back up some of my fears, feel free to do so. I am sure however that the ideological people who see no wrong and call people bigots/or racist will not, but that is ok and their choice. Just don't judge me without walking in my shoes, my struggle is great and very personal. A mother in mourning is not always politically correct when talking through great pain and sorrow.

[RunningDeer]

Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
Hi Marique, I am glad you decided to repost your post and to expand on it all. I sense that you may have some sad personal experience in this regard and if so, I wish you would share this because by doing so,

Kudos, Sam.

Posted by Helene West (here)
…I never had need to use an Ignore button and I didn't even know if there was one.

Posted by marique3652 (here)
I have lost two of my son's to murder as well by a "minority group", and I struggle to make it not personal every day.

Let me know if you find that "ignore" button,

Sorry for the loss of your sons, Marique.

Ignore button

1. Go to ‘settings’ in the top right corner.

2. Click ‘edit ignore list’ on the left side.

3. Add member and hit okay.

[marique3652]

I will probably not use the ignore button, but like that it is a feature. I have to learn to not take things so personally. I did come off sounded bigoted, and should have cited behaviors that I feared and abhorred and not put an ethnic name to my fears, and I do concede that that my statement DID sound like a bigot, and for that I am sorry. Dennis you did make good points, my emotions took the better of me, and I will try to reread my post comments before I hit the final button. How does one get over horrific things without somehow being affected I wonder. It has been 7 years since I lost my sons and it affects me every day. If anyone has any suggestions how to get over the loss of a child, or children, no matter the circumstances, I would love to have all the help I can get.

[zen deik]

Life is not black or white.... There is color...

[RunningDeer]

Posted by marique3652 (here)
It has been 7 years since I lost my sons and it affects me every day. If anyone has any suggestions how to get over the loss of a child, or children, no matter the circumstances, I would love to have all the help I can get.

Synchronicity... Today, I had a lunch with my cousin who lost her son to suicide 9 months ago. Her daughter-in-law join us because she too lost the love of her life that day. Her son was the fourth son of the cousins in our family to end their lives. My son was the first. All were bright, articulate, creative young men.

How to get over the loss of a child? T-I-M-E.

For myself, one goal was to show my son how to go through the crap and pain without choosing the point of no return. I have to say that early on I was in dark on how to make it to my next breath.

The second goal was not to hold back on whatever came up…rage, anger, sadness. That kind of pain turned inward would only nurture sickness and disease. I dealt with whatever feelings presented and yanked at its roots as best I could.

The third goal was not to drowned my sorrows in drink. Drink numbs. I waited eighteen months before that first glass of wine.

The fourth goal was to commit to a long term life plan and make a difference in the world. Even if it's only spreading those silent particle-waves of the good-stuff.

♡

[Foxie Loxie]

AND......you HAVE made a difference....Dear Paula! Thank you so much!