+ Reply to Thread
Page 6 of 16 FirstFirst 1 6 16 LastLast
Results 101 to 120 of 319

Thread: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

  1. Link to Post #101
    United States Avalon Member Chester's Avatar
    Join Date
    15th December 2011
    Location
    into my third life within this one
    Language
    English
    Age
    68
    Posts
    6,073
    Thanks
    34,014
    Thanked 33,314 times in 5,699 posts

    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    Quote Posted by zen deik (here)
    Life is not black or white.... There is color...
    How strange that my step-daughter who is Colombian happened to apply for a job yesterday where the following was part of what she was asked to fill out... (click on the image to enlarge)

    Click image for larger version

Name:	Job App.jpg
Views:	71
Size:	146.3 KB
ID:	35234

    For one, if the applicant is Hispanic or Latino, you have your own section... if not, you have one of six selections -

    White

    Black or African American

    Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander

    Asian

    American Indian or Alaska Native

    Two or More Races


    I asked my wife if she was Hispanic or Latino... the look on her face was classic.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

  2. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Chester For This Post:

    DNA (3rd May 2017), marique3652 (4th May 2017), Sierra (2nd May 2017), TargeT (3rd May 2017)

  3. Link to Post #102
    United States Honored, Retired Member. Sierra passed in April 2021.
    Join Date
    27th January 2011
    Posts
    9,452
    Thanks
    64,848
    Thanked 29,469 times in 5,424 posts

    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    DNA,

    Perhaps it is *because* the U.S. destroyed entire countries that some cannot see refusing immigrants/refugees from the Middle East. Yes, we are responsible, and I am sure that with the rest of the Elites it was planned to inundate Europe with violence from people who violate their own.

    Since Sam wants solutions, the only solution I can think of is to rebuild Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria, return the immigrants, hire the returned immigrants to rebuild their countries. If we spent as much money rebuilding as we did destroying, and trained our soldiers in teaching reconstruction skills, it could be done.

    As you say, we did it in Japan, because we took over the country, we had Mr. Marshall, of the Marshall Plan, and we controlled the rebuild.

    How realistic do I think this idea given the current plans of the Elite? Extremely naive. The day has come and gone, when America would be allowed to do such a thing.

    And even more importantly, allowed to quit going to war, racking up such monstrous karma and debt, so we can spend the money fixing our own country.

    Given the U.S. is *THE* weapons manufacturer of the world, is that another naive idea?

    So what do we do?

  4. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Sierra For This Post:

    AutumnW (3rd May 2017), Dennis Leahy (3rd May 2017), DNA (3rd May 2017), lastlegs (15th May 2017)

  5. Link to Post #103
    Canada Avalon Member
    Join Date
    4th November 2012
    Posts
    3,270
    Thanks
    6,560
    Thanked 14,521 times in 2,921 posts

    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    Quote Posted by marique3652 (here)
    Actually you are right Sam, something very traumatic has colored my viewpoints greatly. I am trying to overcome that. I have a dear woman friend in Irag whom I have corresponded with for many years. Many of my viewpoints have been formed listening to her tell me all about Muslim beliefs, Sharia law, and how the muslim culture views women and female children and their place in the world. Back in 2015 she wrote to me in horror. A group of muslim men subdued her at knife point and forced her to watch them gang rape her 9 year old daughter. They raped her until the horrific injuries added up and she died from the assault. Being the mother of 11 sons, I knew and understand her anger, hatred and horror of losing her only child to such a horrific attack. We still correspond and she is trying to deal with it, but she is struggling greatly and there is not a day that goes by that I do not get angry that a group of barbaric men thought that it was their right to do that to her daughter. Yes I have to admit, I see all the horrors of done by SOME Muslims behaviors and get really angry and apprehensive about our country getting flooded by those behaviors . I know it is not right to assume they are ALL like that, but my friend said that that is the customs and beliefs of Muslim religion and that those behaviors are greatly condoned by the majority of believers.. That is what I rail against those beliefs. Dennis, if I had said that I am horrified by child rapists, people who disfigure and maim the genitalia for life of little girls, women abusers, people who believe it ok to kill family members if they wish, that I have great trepidation for our country being overrun with child rapists, pedophiles, animal rapists, men who think nothing of stoning their wife to death, would you still call me a bigot? Just wondering? It was the saying the word Muslim that you found offensive I am sure. Yes I did do the faux pa by saying the M---sli- word. You compare me to
    Fox news, but I compare you to mainstream media, so we are even, lol. MSM does not like the word Muslim extremeists and also like to whitewash all the horrors that have occurred that was done by M-----ms. My viewpoint is my viewpoint and that does not change. I have lost two of my son's to murder as well by a "minority group", and I struggle to make it not personal every day. I see things as a mother trying to protect my family and that will never change. Hope we can call a truce, all of you that feel I am a horrible person for being afraid for the future of the US. I have very personal reasons. If you were to check on the web you would be assaulted by headlines that back up some of my fears, feel free to do so. I am sure however that the ideological people who see no wrong and call people bigots/or racist will not, but that is ok and their choice. Just don't judge me without walking in my shoes, my struggle is great and very personal. A mother in mourning is not always politically correct when talking through great pain and sorrow.
    Are you saying that raping young girls to death is a prominent feature of Muslim countries? They have a long way to go in terms of gender equality, granted, but this incident would be considered deplorable by the majority of Muslims. Though you appear to be struggling with generalizing from specifics, your following statements continue to do just that.

    Islamic people are zero threat to Americans who were born in the U.S. You could absorb hundreds of thousands and it would barely make a dent in your cultural values. The greatest threat or contagion from Islam, would be having more 'ethnic foods' and restaurants to choose from. And seeing as most of us have been inoculated by eating humus, it might actually be a win win.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to AutumnW For This Post:

    Dennis Leahy (3rd May 2017)

  7. Link to Post #104
    Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    23rd June 2013
    Location
    North America
    Age
    74
    Posts
    6,884
    Thanks
    12,723
    Thanked 29,293 times in 6,140 posts

    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    The point could be debated, is the woman a "slave"..

    From 4:24, it can be rightly assumed, that the Qur'an does not see any wrong-doing in Muslims having sex with captive women even if these women are married and their husbands are still alive. This clearly indicates that the Qur'an allows rape, as captive women, even in the unlikely case of agreeing to sexual intercourse, would still be having that intercourse under duress.

    Quote Muslims are encouraged to live in the way of Muhammad, who was a slave owner and trader. He captured slaves in battle; he had sex with his slaves; and he instructed his men to do the same. The Quran actually devotes more verses to making sure that Muslim men know they can keep women as sex slaves (4) than it does to telling them to pray five times a day (zero).

    https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/p...n/slavery.aspx
    Quote Abu Dawud (2150) - "The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers.

    So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Quran 4:24) 'And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess.'" This is the background for verse 4:24 of the Quran. Not only does Allah give permission for women to be captured and raped, but allows it to even be done in front of their husbands. (See also Muslim 3432 & Ibn Kathir/Abdul Rahman Part 5 Page 14)
    "Notes

    "Slavery is deeply embedded in Islamic law and tradition. Although a slave-owner is cautioned against treating slaves harshly, basic human rights are not obliged. The very fact that only non-Muslims may be taken as slaves is evidence of Islam's supremacist doctrine. "

  8. Link to Post #105
    United States Avalon Member Chester's Avatar
    Join Date
    15th December 2011
    Location
    into my third life within this one
    Language
    English
    Age
    68
    Posts
    6,073
    Thanks
    34,014
    Thanked 33,314 times in 5,699 posts

    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    Beware drawing conclusions as to what I might mean to imply by posting the following -

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._in_April_2017

    The above link is a list of terrorist incidents that occurred last month. The list is global. The list is comprised of 93 events.

    I examined the first week of events which consisted of 34.

    Of the 34 events 29 were committed by Islamic organizations.

    That is over 85%... again, this is a stat that covers the globe.

    But again, members and readers... please, be careful in your interpretations as to what conclusions I draw from this actuality.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Chester For This Post:

    JRS (3rd May 2017), marique3652 (4th May 2017)

  10. Link to Post #106
    Canada Avalon Member
    Join Date
    4th November 2012
    Posts
    3,270
    Thanks
    6,560
    Thanked 14,521 times in 2,921 posts

    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    I don't believe that rape of little girls is sanctioned by Islam -- particularly not gang rape. As a war atrocity -- yes. I can see it happening in that instance. But as a social norm in Islamic countries. Nope. All kinds of weirdo violent pervert behavior does likely happen in the rural areas though..granted.

    Poor, uneducated, inbred people everywhere are at risk of appalling behavior, regardless of their religion. Rural Christians who got suckered into fighting in Iraq, seemed to be pretty jazzed about killing people who were zero threat to them. Now THAT is sick.

  11. Link to Post #107
    Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    23rd June 2013
    Location
    North America
    Age
    74
    Posts
    6,884
    Thanks
    12,723
    Thanked 29,293 times in 6,140 posts

    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    I don't believe that rape of little girls is sanctioned by Islam [..]
    reference: http://pamelageller.com/2015/08/new-...raged-it.html/

    Article written by:
    Pamela Geller, the President of the American Freedom Defense Initiative (AFDI), publisher of PamelaGeller.com and author of The Post-American Presidency: The Obama Administration’s War on America and Stop the Islamization of America: A Practical Guide to the Resistance.

    Quote The New York Times has a lengthy piece on how the Islamic State cites Islamic theology to justify its brutal acts, claiming that the Koran “condones and encourages” raping women if they are not true believers of Islam.

    "he knelt beside the bed and prostrated himself in prayer before getting on top of her."

    When it was over, he knelt to pray again, bookending the rape with acts of religious devotion.

    “I kept telling him it hurts — please stop,” said the girl, whose body is so small an adult could circle her waist with two hands. “He told me that according to Islam he is allowed to rape an unbeliever. He said that by raping me, he is drawing closer to God”..

    It is stunning that it has taken The New York Times years to address this savage issue. Tens of thousands of young girls have been raped, bought and sold.

    And while the NY Times only addresses sex slavery under the Islamic State, it is hardly exclusive to them. The Muslim sex trafficking gangs in the UK, for example, mirror the practice. The NY Times has long criticized and smeared my colleagues and me for writing about these horrors and opposing them, calling us “anti-Muslim.”

    The Times trots out the apologists and “scholars” who “disagree” on the proper interpretation of these verses, and on the divisive question of whether Islam actually sanctions slavery. It’s not a question. It does. It’s not a question of “proper” interpretation. The Islamic State practices pure Islam. Their theological argument is authentic.

    To its credit, The New York Times goes on to cite:

    Cole Bunzel, a scholar of Islamic theology at Princeton University, disagrees, pointing to the numerous references to the phrase “Those your right hand possesses” in the Quran, which for centuries has been interpreted to mean female slaves. He also points to the corpus of Islamic jurisprudence, which continues into the modern era and which he says includes detailed rules for the treatment of slaves.

    “There is a great deal of scripture that sanctions slavery,” said Mr. Bunzel, the author of a research paper published by the Brookings Institution on the ideology of the Islamic State. “You can argue that it is no longer relevant and has fallen into abeyance. ISIS would argue that these institutions need to be revived, because that is what the Prophet and his companions did.”
    The Islamic State consistently adheres to the shariah.

    The captives were also forced to answer intimate questions, including reporting the exact date of their last menstrual cycle. They realized that the fighters were trying to determine whether they were pregnant, in keeping with a Shariah rule stating that a man cannot have intercourse with his slave if she is pregnant.

    The NY Times calls it ISIS’s “extreme interpretation of Islam.” In fact, it is not; it is the literal understanding of Islam. Authentic Islam. The group has codified it, writing how-to guides and memos outlining the dos and don’ts of sexual slavery.

    Young Yazidi girls and teens that the Times interviewed spoke of being raped by ISIS fighters who prayed before and after the event, viewing their behavior as an act of worship.

    Child rape is explicitly condoned: “It is permissible to have intercourse with the female slave who hasn’t reached puberty, if she is fit for intercourse,” according to a translation by the Middle East Media Research Institute of a pamphlet published on Twitter last December.

    “We have indeed raided and captured the kafirahwomen and drove them like sheep by the edge of the sword.” Kafirah refers to infidels.

    ISIS Enshrines a Theology of Rape

    Claiming the Quran’s support, the Islamic State codifies sex slavery in conquered regions of Iraq and Syria and uses the practice as a recruiting tool.


    QADIYA, Iraq — In the moments before he raped the 12-year-old girl, the Islamic State fighter took the time to explain that what he was about to do was not a sin. Because the preteen girl practiced a religion other than Islam, the Quran not only gave him the right to rape her — it condoned and encouraged it, he insisted.

    He bound her hands and gagged her. Then he knelt beside the bed and prostrated himself in prayer before getting on top of her.

    When it was over, he knelt to pray again, bookending the rape with acts of religious devotion.

    “I kept telling him it hurts — please stop,” said the girl, whose body is so small an adult could circle her waist with two hands. “He told me that according to Islam he is allowed to rape an unbeliever. He said that by raping me, he is drawing closer to God,” she said in an interview alongside her family in a refugee camp here, to which she escaped after 11 month

    The systematic rape of women and girls from the Yazidi religious minority has become deeply enmeshed in the organization and the radical theology of the Islamic State in the year since the group announced it was reviving slavery as an institution. Interviews with 21 women and girls who recently escaped the Islamic State, as well as an examination of the group’s official communications, illuminate how the practice has been enshrined in the group’s core tenets.

    The trade in Yazidi women and girls has created a persistent infrastructure, with a network of warehouses where the victims are held, viewing rooms where they are inspected and marketed, and a dedicated fleet of buses used to transport them.

    A total of 5,270 Yazidis were abducted last year, and at least 3,144 are still being held, according to community leaders. To handle them, the Islamic State has developed a detailed bureaucracy of sex slavery, including sales contracts notarized by the ISIS-run Islamic courts. And the practice has become an established recruiting tool to lure men from deeply conservative Muslim societies, where casual sex is taboo and dating is forbidden.

    A growing body of internal policy memos and theological discussions has established guidelines for slavery, including a lengthy how-to manual issued by the Islamic State Research and Fatwa Department just last month. Repeatedly, the ISIS leadership has emphasized a narrow and selective reading of the Quran and other religious rulings to not only justify violence, but also to elevate and celebrate each sexual assault as spiritually beneficial, even virtuous.

    “Every time that he came to rape me, he would pray,” said F, a 15-year-old girl who was captured on the shoulder of Mount Sinjar one year ago and was sold to an Iraqi fighter in his 20s. Like some others interviewed by The New York Times, she wanted to be identified only by her first initial because of the shame associated with rape.

    “He kept telling me this is ibadah,” she said, using a term from Islamic scripture meaning worship.

    A 15-year-old girl who wished to be identified only as F, right, with her father and 4-year-old brother. “Every time that he came to rape me, he would pray,” said F, who was captured by the Islamic State on Mount Sinjar one year ago and sold to an Iraqi fighter. (Credit Mauricio Lima for The New York Times)

    He said that raping me is his prayer to God.

    "I said to him, ‘What you’re doing to me is wrong, and it will not bring you closer to God.’ And he said, ‘No, it’s allowed. It’s halal,’ ” said the teenager, who escaped in April with the help of smugglers after being enslaved for nearly nine months.

    The Islamic State’s formal introduction of systematic sexual slavery dates to Aug. 3, 2014, when its fighters invaded the villages on the southern flank of Mount Sinjar, a craggy massif of dun-colored rock in northern Iraq.

    Its valleys and ravines are home to the Yazidis, a tiny religious minority who represent less than 1.5 percent of Iraq’s estimated population of 34 million.

    The offensive on the mountain came just two months after the fall of Mosul, the second-largest city in Iraq. At first, it appeared that the subsequent advance on the mountain was just another attempt to extend the territory controlled by Islamic State fighters.

    Almost immediately, there were signs that their aim this time was different.

    Survivors say that men and women were separated within the first hour of their capture. Adolescent boys were told to lift up their shirts, and if they had armpit hair, they were directed to join their older brothers and fathers. In village after village, the men and older boys were driven or marched to nearby fields, where they were forced to lie down in the dirt and sprayed with automatic fire.

    The women, girls and children, however, were hauled off in open-bed trucks.

    “The offensive on the mountain was as much a sexual conquest as it was for territorial gain,” said Matthew Barber, a University of Chicago expert on the Yazidi minority. He was in Sinjar when the onslaught began last summer and helped create a foundation that provides psychological support for the escapees, who number more than 2,000, according to community activists.

    Fifteen-year-old F says her family of nine was trying to escape, speeding up mountain switchbacks, when their aging Opel overheated. She, her mother, and her sisters — 14, 7, and 4 years old — were helplessly standing by their stalled car when a convoy of heavily armed Islamic State fighters encircled them.

    “Right away, the fighters separated the men from the women,” she said. She, her mother and sisters were first taken in trucks to the nearest town on Mount Sinjar. “There, they separated me from my mom. The young, unmarried girls were forced to get into buses.”

    The buses were white, with a painted stripe next to the word “Hajj,” suggesting that the Islamic State had commandeered Iraqi government buses used to transport pilgrims for the annual pilgrimage to Mecca. So many Yazidi women and girls were loaded inside F’s bus that they were forced to sit on each other’s laps, she said.

    Once the bus headed out, they noticed that the windows were blocked with curtains, an accouterment that appeared to have been added because the fighters planned to transport large numbers of women who were not covered in burqas or head scarves.

    F’s account, including the physical description of the bus, the placement of the curtains and the manner in which the women were transported, is echoed by a dozen other female victims interviewed for this article. They described a similar set of circumstances even though they were kidnapped on different days and in locations miles apart.

    […]

    Osman Hassan Ali, a Yazidi businessman who has successfully smuggled out numerous Yazidi women, said he posed as a buyer in order to be sent the photographs. He shared a dozen images, each one showing a Yazidi woman sitting in a bare room on a couch, facing the camera with a blank, unsmiling expression. On the edge of the photograph is written in Arabic, “Sabaya [slave] No. 1,” “Sabaya No. 2,” and so on.

    Buildings where the women were collected and held sometimes included a viewing room.

    “When they put us in the building, they said we had arrived at the ‘Sabaya Market,’” said one 19-year-old victim, whose first initial is I. “I understood we were now in a slave market.”

    [..]

    The Islamic State recently made it clear that sex with Christian and Jewish women captured in battle is also permissible, according to a new 34-page manual issued this summer by the terror group’s Research and Fatwa Department.

    Just about the only prohibition is having sex with a pregnant slave, and the manual describes how an owner must wait for a female captive to have her menstruating cycle, in order to “make sure there is nothing in her womb,” before having intercourse with her. Of the 21 women and girls interviewed for this article, among the only ones who had not been raped were the women who were already pregnant at the moment of their capture, as well as those who were past menopause.

    Beyond that, there appears to be no bounds to what is sexually permissible. Child rape is explicitly condoned: “It is permissible to have intercourse with the female slave who hasn’t reached puberty, if she is fit for intercourse,” according to a translation by the Middle East Media Research Institute of a pamphlet published on Twitter last December.

    A 25-year-old Yazidi woman showed a “Certificate of Emancipation” given to her by a Libyan who had enslaved her. He explained that he had finished his training as a suicide bomber and was planning to blow himself up, and was therefore setting her free. (Credit Mauricio Lima for The New York Times)

    […]One 34-year-old Yazidi woman, who was bought and repeatedly raped by a Saudi fighter in the Syrian city of Shadadi, described how she fared better than the second slave in the household — a 12-year-old girl who was raped for days on end despite heavy bleeding.

    “He destroyed her body. She was badly infected. The fighter kept coming and asking me, ‘Why does she smell so bad?’ And I said, she has an infection on the inside, you need to take care of her,” the woman said.

    Unmoved, he ignored the girl’s agony, continuing the ritual of praying before and after raping the child.

    “I said to him, ‘She’s just a little girl,’ ” the older woman recalled.

    “And he answered: ‘No. She’s not a little girl. She’s a slave. And she knows exactly how to have sex.’ ’’

    “And having sex with her pleases God,” he said.
    No thank-you, these beasts are not welcome, IMHO of course...

  12. Link to Post #108
    Avalon Member Flash's Avatar
    Join Date
    26th December 2010
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    9,825
    Thanks
    38,372
    Thanked 55,293 times in 9,131 posts

    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    I don't believe that rape of little girls is sanctioned by Islam -- particularly not gang rape. As a war atrocity -- yes. I can see it happening in that instance. But as a social norm in Islamic countries. Nope. All kinds of weirdo violent pervert behavior does likely happen in the rural areas though..granted.

    Poor, uneducated, inbred people everywhere are at risk of appalling behavior, regardless of their religion. Rural Christians who got suckered into fighting in Iraq, seemed to be pretty jazzed about killing people who were zero threat to them. Now THAT is sick.
    For some, if we are not Muslims, we are below dogs and will be treated as such - as bad as the Catholic Inquisition was in Spain in the 1500's. I do not understand how come westerners cannot believe it. It is clear as day. And in this context, raping children is not a problem, it is less bad than raping a dog. And it is for God, for the Jihad.

    And yes, we have to worry Autumn you cannot imagine how often I have seen women called whores or bitches in Montreal streets, and very often by Arabic looking men, or heard that one guy would not want to work with colleagues, which were women. Those guys would not hesitate one minute to rape a non Muslim, if the law permitted it in Canada. And there is a large difference between sickos who are rapist in any society, and men who are told they can rape because the religion and laws approve of it. It makes them feel obedient and proud, therefore increasing the sickness of it all. And why aren't all the world Muslim condemning it? Because they know it is socially approved!

    Don't you also remember what was done to black in the Southern US 80 years ago - they had no rights and the women could be raped and men killed by the KKK without any recourse.

    This is the exact same mentality here, nowadays, in those countries. The difference being that they want to conquer the planet by destroying and raping since it is one way of doing the Jihad (the conquest of the planet)- I have been told by some Muslim men that they would come here, marry Middle Eastern or occidentals to make as much children as they could so that our society would become Muslim. Do you ever believe that they respect those occidental wives? Ask some Arab speaking people, those who are ok human beings, to tell you what they hear about the Occidentals, and mostly the Occidental women, you will be shocked.
    How to let the desire of your mind become the desire of your heart - Gurdjieff

  13. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Flash For This Post:

    Bob (3rd May 2017), Chester (4th May 2017), DNA (3rd May 2017), JRS (3rd May 2017), marique3652 (4th May 2017), Mike (3rd May 2017), Sierra (3rd May 2017), TargeT (4th May 2017)

  14. Link to Post #109
    Canada Avalon Member
    Join Date
    4th November 2012
    Posts
    3,270
    Thanks
    6,560
    Thanked 14,521 times in 2,921 posts

    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    Flash, I understand and I think immigrants from backward countries (and I am fine with calling most Arab countries backwards) should be vetted before they are allowed to immigrate. Those with university degrees will be much less prone to to religious fanaticism and can be safely allowed in the country.

    Saudi Arabian Wahhabists have been very problematic, form the core of Isis and it wouldn't hurt my feelings if they all ceased to exist. I don't imagine they would want to immigrate here though. We are too unclean for them! When my brother and former boyfriend visited the Al Hambra we ran into a Wahhabist mullah and his followers on a pilgrimage. They creeped me out- wouldn't talk to me, but were very interested in my brother. Very gay..and not in a rainbow coalition kind of way, but a dark perverted sort of way. Does this make sense?

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to AutumnW For This Post:

    Mike (3rd May 2017)

  16. Link to Post #110
    United States Avalon Member Chester's Avatar
    Join Date
    15th December 2011
    Location
    into my third life within this one
    Language
    English
    Age
    68
    Posts
    6,073
    Thanks
    34,014
    Thanked 33,314 times in 5,699 posts

    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    So I would like to ask again... do we accept the current geopolitical reality that we are a planet of nations?

    Is it acceptable that the globe is made up of nations?
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

  17. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Chester For This Post:

    marique3652 (4th May 2017), TargeT (4th May 2017)

  18. Link to Post #111
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    3rd February 2012
    Posts
    5,512
    Thanks
    4,666
    Thanked 24,838 times in 5,080 posts

    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    Quote Posted by Sierra (here)
    DNA,

    Perhaps it is *because* the U.S. destroyed entire countries that some cannot see refusing immigrants/refugees from the Middle East. Yes, we are responsible, and I am sure that with the rest of the Elites it was planned to inundate Europe with violence from people who violate their own.

    Since Sam wants solutions, the only solution I can think of is to rebuild Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria, return the immigrants, hire the returned immigrants to rebuild their countries. If we spent as much money rebuilding as we did destroying, and trained our soldiers in teaching reconstruction skills, it could be done.

    As you say, we did it in Japan, because we took over the country, we had Mr. Marshall, of the Marshall Plan, and we controlled the rebuild.

    How realistic do I think this idea given the current plans of the Elite? Extremely naive. The day has come and gone, when America would be allowed to do such a thing.

    And even more importantly, allowed to quit going to war, racking up such monstrous karma and debt, so we can spend the money fixing our own country.

    Given the U.S. is *THE* weapons manufacturer of the world, is that another naive idea?

    So what do we do?
    To Sierra & the rest of the naysayers...

    First thing is to understand that it is not 'We' that have been creating this mess with the mass killing, destruction, creating of refugees in the world. So, stop identifying yourself (by using the pronoun 'we') with the Military-Industrial / Neocon / Deep-State / National Security / Central Bankster Complex.

    Second thing, is that Trump is in the process of taking down the root cause of this miserable situation. Whether you like it or not, or want to believe it or not, Donald Trump is about to take down the Central Banking system which is the basic root cause of the problem. The Central Banking system is the major root cause of all the misery in this world at the present moment.

    The Third thing:
    Its just up to the rest of us, while this system is coming down & undergoing a reset, is to be a part of the rebuilding process. And this happens at the local community level. Get to know the people you live near - your neighbors - get to know the people that you can trust, that you can share things with, and be prepared to form a small group of people that can help each other through this upcoming crisis as we go through this paradigm shift.

    That's it in a nut shell!

    Have a listen:
    Last edited by turiya; 3rd May 2017 at 03:55.

  19. Link to Post #112
    United States Avalon Member DNA's Avatar
    Join Date
    8th May 2011
    Location
    S.W. Missouri
    Language
    English
    Age
    53
    Posts
    4,883
    Thanks
    36,754
    Thanked 30,806 times in 4,595 posts

    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    Quote Posted by Sierra (here)
    DNA,

    Perhaps it is *because* the U.S. destroyed entire countries that some cannot see refusing immigrants/refugees from the Middle East. Yes, we are responsible, and I am sure that with the rest of the Elites it was planned to inundate Europe with violence from people who violate their own.

    Since Sam wants solutions, the only solution I can think of is to rebuild Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria, return the immigrants, hire the returned immigrants to rebuild their countries. If we spent as much money rebuilding as we did destroying, and trained our soldiers in teaching reconstruction skills, it could be done.

    As you say, we did it in Japan, because we took over the country, we had Mr. Marshall, of the Marshall Plan, and we controlled the rebuild.

    How realistic do I think this idea given the current plans of the Elite? Extremely naive. The day has come and gone, when America would be allowed to do such a thing.

    And even more importantly, allowed to quit going to war, racking up such monstrous karma and debt, so we can spend the money fixing our own country.

    Given the U.S. is *THE* weapons manufacturer of the world, is that another naive idea?

    So what do we do?

    All I'm doing is acknowledging the situation. If we want to come up with real solutions first we have to look at the situation for what it really is.
    If we can wake up to the knowledge of the INTENT of the elite then we can make real differences in our day to day lives.
    I honestly think the worst thing we can do is to inundate ourselves with the decisions of the world.
    We have to be realistic about the real effect we can bring on to the world and that real effect should start with our day to day lives and the people we interact with on a day to day basis.
    If the INTENT of the elite is to muddy our minds, deplete our bodies and inundate our senses then maybe we should consider how they do that and remove those negative influences from our day to day lives.
    In terms of solving the problems of the world I will not really concern myself with that being as there is little I can do to influence those things other than making myself aware of the truths that are being withheld from most of us.
    The first rule of effective behavior is understanding and knowing what you can truly effect and what you can and can not effect. Do not waste personal resources raging against the machine if little results will be shown for it.

  20. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to DNA For This Post:

    Bruno (3rd May 2017), Helene West (3rd May 2017), marique3652 (4th May 2017), Mike (3rd May 2017), Sierra (3rd May 2017), TargeT (3rd May 2017)

  21. Link to Post #113
    United States Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    18th September 2016
    Posts
    1,062
    Thanks
    2,208
    Thanked 5,371 times in 1,011 posts

    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    Quote Posted by turiya (here)
    Quote Posted by Sierra (here)
    DNA,

    Perhaps it is *because* the U.S. destroyed entire countries that some cannot see refusing immigrants/refugees from the Middle East. Yes, we are responsible, and I am sure that with the rest of the Elites it was planned to inundate Europe with violence from people who violate their own.

    Since Sam wants solutions, the only solution I can think of is to rebuild Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria, return the immigrants, hire the returned immigrants to rebuild their countries. If we spent as much money rebuilding as we did destroying, and trained our soldiers in teaching reconstruction skills, it could be done.

    As you say, we did it in Japan, because we took over the country, we had Mr. Marshall, of the Marshall Plan, and we controlled the rebuild.

    How realistic do I think this idea given the current plans of the Elite? Extremely naive. The day has come and gone, when America would be allowed to do such a thing.

    And even more importantly, allowed to quit going to war, racking up such monstrous karma and debt, so we can spend the money fixing our own country.

    Given the U.S. is *THE* weapons manufacturer of the world, is that another naive idea?

    So what do we do?
    To Sierra & the rest of the naysayers...

    First thing is to understand that it is not 'We' that have been creating this mess with the mass killing, destruction, creating of refugees in the world. So, stop identifying yourself (by using the pronoun 'we') with the Military-Industrial / Neocon / Deep-State / National Security / Central Bankster Complex.

    Second thing, is that Trump is in the process of taking down the root cause of this miserable situation. Whether you like it or not, or want to believe it or not, Donald Trump is about to take down the Central Banking system which is the basic root cause of the problem. The Central Banking system is the major root cause of all the misery in this world at the present moment.

    The Third thing:
    Its just up to the rest of us, while this system is coming down & undergoing a reset, is to be a part of the rebuilding process. And this happens at the local community level. Get to know the people you live near - your neighbors - get to know the people that you can trust, that you can share things with, and be prepared to form a small group of people that can help each other through this upcoming crisis as we go through this paradigm shift.

    That's it in a nut shell!

    Have a listen:
    I'm contradicting myself for writing here as I felt I was through with this thread but I can't resist this important point.
    Turiya, Thanks for bringing up the pronouns! I've tried to emphasize this myself on some posts.
    I'm not the ruling class. I have no say over what they do. As in - We have to take in refugees because "we" went into the middle east. Like hell 'we' did and I don't wish to suffer because of what 'they' do. "Our" government did this or that. This government has been suspect to me for decades let alone me call it 'my' or 'our' government. etc.

    But as far as your optimism on trump taking down the central banking system, I have to see it to believe it as I'm not sure he has been compromised. We've been hostages of the central banks for over a century and extricating their evil from our culture sounds like a miracle to me. However the banking part is a different thread and I will be watching out for more on this.
    thanks

  22. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Helene West For This Post:

    Bob (3rd May 2017), Bruno (3rd May 2017), DNA (3rd May 2017), marique3652 (4th May 2017), Mike (3rd May 2017), TargeT (3rd May 2017)

  23. Link to Post #114
    United States Avalon Member Chester's Avatar
    Join Date
    15th December 2011
    Location
    into my third life within this one
    Language
    English
    Age
    68
    Posts
    6,073
    Thanks
    34,014
    Thanked 33,314 times in 5,699 posts

    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    Ok... a hint...

    Exorcism preceded woman’s killing and decapitation, suspect says

    Rachael Hilyard – charged with first-degree murder in the April 9 decapitation of 63-year-old Micki Davis – said Tuesday that church members performed an exorcism at Hilyard’s house days before the killing.

    Hilyard said the exorcism was done because of “evil spirits” at her south Wichita house.

    read more here
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

  24. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Chester For This Post:

    DNA (5th May 2017), Mike (3rd May 2017)

  25. Link to Post #115
    United States Honored, Retired Member. Sierra passed in April 2021.
    Join Date
    27th January 2011
    Posts
    9,452
    Thanks
    64,848
    Thanked 29,469 times in 5,424 posts

    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    Quote Posted by turiya (here)
    Quote Posted by Sierra (here)
    DNA,

    Perhaps it is *because* the U.S. destroyed entire countries that some cannot see refusing immigrants/refugees from the Middle East. Yes, we are responsible, and I am sure that with the rest of the Elites it was planned to inundate Europe with violence from people who violate their own.

    Since Sam wants solutions, the only solution I can think of is to rebuild Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria, return the immigrants, hire the returned immigrants to rebuild their countries. If we spent as much money rebuilding as we did destroying, and trained our soldiers in teaching reconstruction skills, it could be done.

    As you say, we did it in Japan, because we took over the country, we had Mr. Marshall, of the Marshall Plan, and we controlled the rebuild.

    How realistic do I think this idea given the current plans of the Elite? Extremely naive. The day has come and gone, when America would be allowed to do such a thing.

    And even more importantly, allowed to quit going to war, racking up such monstrous karma and debt, so we can spend the money fixing our own country.

    Given the U.S. is *THE* weapons manufacturer of the world, is that another naive idea?

    So what do we do?
    To Sierra & the rest of the naysayers...

    First thing is to understand that it is not 'We' that have been creating this mess with the mass killing, destruction, creating of refugees in the world. So, stop identifying yourself (by using the pronoun 'we') with the Military-Industrial / Neocon / Deep-State / National Security / Central Bankster Complex.

    Second thing, is that Trump is in the process of taking down the root cause of this miserable situation. Whether you like it or not, or want to believe it or not, Donald Trump is about to take down the Central Banking system which is the basic root cause of the problem. The Central Banking system is the major root cause of all the misery in this world at the present moment.

    The Third thing:
    Its just up to the rest of us, while this system is coming down & undergoing a reset, is to be a part of the rebuilding process. And this happens at the local community level. Get to know the people you live near - your neighbors - get to know the people that you can trust, that you can share things with, and be prepared to form a small group of people that can help each other through this upcoming crisis as we go through this paradigm shift.

    That's it in a nut shell!

    Have a listen:
    Excuse me Sam, I have to say something.
    Mod hat off

    Turiya,
    Reread what I said. You went completely off topic.

    Quote First thing:
    Oh how cowardly. Now we speak in the language of "four legs good, two legs better"? If the U.S. is not responsible, who is, the tooth fairy?

    Quote Second thing:
    I was not talking about your obsession with Trump. Please do not use me to bring Trump into this conversation. Bottom line for me: Trump is a member of the Elite. I spare you the multitude of detail covering Trump's lies (bombing of Syria, zero conversation on the world wide raping of women and children), and support of the elite, because I know you have no interest in a conversation, but I have no interest in a lecture.

    Quote The Third thing:
    And don't piously sermonize me on how to conduct my life. You are NOT someone I respect in any way, shape or form.

    Excuse me Sam...
    Mod hat off some more

    You have been nasty as hell to me for years, (how dare I as a moderator, put a channeling thread in the channeling subforum) and I have courteously avoided posting on your multitude of Trump threads. Yet, with that history, you come here to dismiss everything I say? I call that behavior a double standard, and hypocritical. You are not entitled.

    I am not interested in your usual drivel. You have plenty of threads to do your Trump preaching, and to quote someone you clearly dislike, disrespect, dismiss, smacks of trolling. I am interested in this conversation, and I am annoyed at you taking the thread off topic, using me to do it, and only to drone on about Trump again.

    You can take your nutshell and feed it to the pigs.

    Sorry, Sam, and back to topic...
    Last edited by Sierra; 3rd May 2017 at 19:28.

  26. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Sierra For This Post:

    avid (3rd May 2017), Bruno (3rd May 2017), Mike (3rd May 2017), RunningDeer (3rd May 2017), thunder24 (3rd May 2017)

  27. Link to Post #116
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    3rd February 2012
    Posts
    5,512
    Thanks
    4,666
    Thanked 24,838 times in 5,080 posts

    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    Pardon me, Sam... but this short response I am compelled to make...
    Mod hat off? - I don't think so.

    Who else could get away with what you just said to another PA forum member, and still remain being here without being sent on a holiday? Who else, but a moderator.

    Whatever you claim I've done or said to you has never reached the level to which you have presently taken yourself to. Like those from the State of Missouri would say... "Show me" just where I've been so discourteous towards you.

    I have previously tried to joke around with you before - for example, posting the 'ignore list image' that had your name on it... and with your response, I thought we were breaking down the barrier that has existed between us. I am sorry that it seems we can't come to an understanding. I have always been open to have this happen. And, I still am.

    Best regards...

    ____________________late add____________________

    Sooooo nasty... this would & should be easy to prove.... you don't have to create another post to show this... just edit it into to your last post on this thread - (using, for example, here, here, here & here).... I dare you.... just show it, show everybody your proof! - when, where & how I've been so nasty to you!


    Last edited by turiya; 4th May 2017 at 16:30.

  28. Link to Post #117
    United States Honored, Retired Member. Sierra passed in April 2021.
    Join Date
    27th January 2011
    Posts
    9,452
    Thanks
    64,848
    Thanked 29,469 times in 5,424 posts

    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    Quote Posted by turiya (here)
    Pardon me, Sam... but this short response I am compelled to make...
    Mod hat off? - I don't think so.

    Who else could get away with what you just said to another PA forum member, and still remain being here without being sent on a holiday? Who else, but a moderator.

    Whatever you claim I've done or said to you has never reached the level to which you have presently taken yourself to. Like those from the State of Missouri would say... "Show me" just where I've been so discourteous towards you.

    I have previously tried to joke around with you before - for example, posting the 'ignore list image' that had your name on it... and with your response, I thought we were breaking down the barrier that has existed between us. I am sorry that it seems we can't come to an understanding. I have always been open to have this happen. And, I still am.

    Best regards...




    Mod hat off

    I don't think so. I'm just a naysayer. I call bull**** you ever used humor towards me. Read your first and last posts on the 'ignore list image' incident.

    You troll me, I will speak.

    Mod hat on

    Last edited by Sierra; 3rd May 2017 at 16:33.

  29. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Sierra For This Post:

    avid (3rd May 2017), Innocent Warrior (5th May 2017), Mike (3rd May 2017), RunningDeer (3rd May 2017)

  30. Link to Post #118
    United States Avalon Member Chester's Avatar
    Join Date
    15th December 2011
    Location
    into my third life within this one
    Language
    English
    Age
    68
    Posts
    6,073
    Thanks
    34,014
    Thanked 33,314 times in 5,699 posts

    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    So I came back to try and tie some things together but instead I must say that I was profoundly blind sided by what I experienced tonight while watching Tucker Carlson and never imagined how I would think about what is being called FGM and the wider debate that expands to male circumcision. Why this discussion fits in this thread is because this thread reaches from immigration to "the who that might immigrate" (such as Muslims, to the cultural practice that occurs to some extent within the Muslim culture and community which is sometimes labeled as Female Genital Mutilation (aka FGM)). I need to wait for the clip to appear on Youtube before I begin my post and so sometime tomorrow I hope to make the post.

    Again, be warned that folks may be surprised at what they may read (if they indeed do read).

    Onnnnnnnnn another few notes -

    a.) I have more than once attempted to bait someone into asking me why I wanted Trump to win and why I am still very glad he won. The reason is simple. The election of Trump exposed to far more people the total "goofiness" (note I preferred another word but didn't want folks to see *******) of the entire US political scene as it exists today and has likely existed for at least since Kennedy's demise.

    b.) I have asked if anyone here sees the current geopolitical "scene" comprised of nations as acceptable.

    I have revealed why I am glad Trump won (and am still glad as each and every day this is further exposed) but I am hoping a few folks would indulge me with a response to my question regarding nations.
    Last edited by Chester; 4th May 2017 at 18:07.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

  31. The Following User Says Thank You to Chester For This Post:

    TargeT (4th May 2017)

  32. Link to Post #119
    France Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    24th January 2011
    Posts
    5,403
    Thanks
    12,061
    Thanked 31,026 times in 5,009 posts

    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    Quote Posted by turiya (here)
    First thing is to understand that it is not 'We' that have been creating this mess with the mass killing, destruction, creating of refugees in the world. So, stop identifying yourself (by using the pronoun 'we') with the Military-Industrial / Neocon / Deep-State / National Security / Central Bankster Complex.
    The issue here is responsibility. It starts with personal responsibility. If you don’t believe you signed up for this life, it helps to pretend you do. Then if anything unpleasant happens to you, you have a chance of doing something about it instead of playing the victim. Responsibility for something does not necessarily mean guilt; in fact I would suggest that guilt is an unhealthy offshoot of responsibility for stuff that does happen, and victimhood is an unhealthy offshoot of avoiding guilt. It is unhealthy precisely because denying guilt usually means disclaiming responsibility. The healthy thing to do, I believe, is to relieve guilt precisely by accepting responsibility.

    Collective responsibility is an extension of this process on various different levels, of which the nation is just one; it is the sharing of responsibility to relieve guilt. Given how many perpetrators are former victims, the idea is to stop this endless cycle by the originally guiltless victim taking responsibility for something that happened to them against their will, or something that happened to one of the collectives to which they belong before they personally were even born. For example, France has been a divided nation ever since the collaborationists and resistance fighters took different sides during World War II. Both Presidents Chirac and Hollande have made statements accepting that France (the French Republic) took responsibility for the actions of Vichy France (the French State as it called itself). This We of collective responsibility was recently brought into question by Marine Le Pen and her National Front party, coinciding with a denial of actual guilt for her own smaller collective, namely the far right going back in time. See this post:

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    The ‘dédiabolisation’ of the FN under Marine Le Pen is designed to counter people with longer memories or who know their history. You have to go all the way back to World War II. When she stated recently that the Vél d’Hiv Jewish deportation atrocity was not the work of France, represented by De Gaulle in exile in London, but by individual members of the Vichy government, she is rewriting history. Her party has never been Gaullist, but is in fact an offshoot of the pro-Nazi collaborationist community.
    See this page and the whole site: http://www.gauchemip.org/spip.php?article15713
    The difference in approach is between trying to heal and leaving to fester. The word ‘apology’ itself contains this ambivalence. To apologize normally means to express regret for something, and is usually met with reconciliation, or dedramatization. But an apology, or apologia, can also be a reasoned defence, explanation or excuse, expressing the opposite of regret. Those who might be bearing a burden refuse to do so because it is too much for them; collective responsibility means sharing the burden. The burden of US guilt is not only too much for the perpetrators, it is too much for the American people on their own; which is why all of humanity needs to share the burden of what one part of humanity has done. It may go all the way back to something as huge as destroying an entire planet. If so, nothing less than collective responsibility on the grandest scale is going to heal the damage. And it may extend even beyond humanity: maybe all of humanity needs to share the burden of what another (alien) part of sentient beinghood has done. It is truly a cosmic issue, but one that we can begin to address on our tiny level here and now, simply because ‘we are all in this together’.

  33. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to araucaria For This Post:

    Chester (4th May 2017), Ewan (6th May 2017), Innocent Warrior (5th May 2017), Sierra (4th May 2017)

  34. Link to Post #120
    United States On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    30th June 2011
    Location
    The Seat of Corruption
    Age
    46
    Posts
    9,177
    Thanks
    25,610
    Thanked 53,746 times in 8,696 posts

    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    Quote Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
    So I would like to ask again... do we accept the current geopolitical reality that we are a planet of nations?


    yes, because we can only stretch our tribalistic natures so far. Even with out nations or states we would naturally self organize into communities which would slowly drift away. Culture guides a lot of human behavior and culture can be drastically different with in a 50 mile area. Nations, counties, cities, towns etc all facilitate the connection between those disparate communities/cultures by giving them a common narrative.

    "globalism" is very similar to communism or socialism; it tries to fit everyone into one mold. We don't fit into one mold & attempting to force this has given us the situation in Europe with "immigrants".

    Quote Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
    Is it acceptable that the globe is made up of nations?
    So rather than "acceptable" I'd say potentially necessary.
    Last edited by TargeT; 4th May 2017 at 12:39.
    Hard times create strong men, Strong men create good times, Good times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
    Where are you?

  35. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to TargeT For This Post:

    Chester (4th May 2017), DNA (5th May 2017), Helene West (4th May 2017), Innocent Warrior (5th May 2017)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 6 of 16 FirstFirst 1 6 16 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts