Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

[TargeT]

Posted by Helene West (here)

You're entitled to your view. I said what I meant to. I'm well aware it's not popular. I'm not running for office. Don't need the vote. thx

it's not something that appeared overnight, it's something that has been culturally instilled for many years now.

When objectively viewed, it's impossible to deny the racism against "whites" (what ever that is, it's so vague that it fits the MO of racism). There are literally laws that enforce the "anti white" sentiment. as well as courses at every major ivy league college to enforce white guilt, TV shows that do the same, Movies that do the same, Popular sentiment that does the same... How conformist it is to still tote the all/most "whites are racist" flag... haha

This does not discount past actions, this is focused on what is happening RIGHT NOW. To not see it is very limiting, being objective when analyzing data should always be the goal. Facts are facts, and the literal laws that re-enforce anti-whiteness are there for anyone to see. The most egregious laws lasted until just one or two years ago...

[abmqa]

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by Helene West (here)

You're entitled to your view. I said what I meant to. I'm well aware it's not popular. I'm not running for office. Don't need the vote. thx

it's not something that appeared overnight, it's something that has been culturally instilled for many years now.

When objectively viewed, it's impossible to deny the racism against "whites" (what ever that is, it's so vague that it fits the MO of racism). There are literally laws that enforce the "anti white" sentiment. as well as courses at every major ivy league college to enforce white guilt, TV shows that do the same, Movies that do the same, Popular sentiment that does the same... How conformist it is to still tote the all/most "whites are racist" flag... haha

This does not discount past actions, this is focused on what is happening RIGHT NOW. To not see it is very limiting, being objective when analyzing data should always be the goal. Facts are facts, and the literal laws that re-enforce anti-whiteness are there for anyone to see.

What I see when I click on that link is an online publication pushing white supremacist ideology :

From wikipedia

American Renaissance, the New Century Foundation, or Taylor have had links with organizations such as the Council of Conservative Citizens, the Pioneer Fund, and the British National Party. Don Black and David Duke have attended AR conferences and have been seen talking with Taylor.[10][11] The organization has held bi-annual conferences that are open to the public and that attract 200–300 people. Critics say some who attend are neo-Nazis, white nationalists, white separatists, Holocaust deniers, and eugenicists.[12]
The online magazine is often described as a white supremacist publication; CNN, The Washington Post, Fortune, Slate, and the New York Daily News, among others, have reported on the magazine as such.[1][2][15][16][17]

The magazine and foundation promote the view that differences in educational outcomes and per capita incomes between racial populations can be attributed at least in part to differences in intelligence between races.

SMH, No wonder you hold the views that you do. Seems to me that if one advocates such websites as proof of your opinions, that says much about you.

I have experienced bigotry and racism for most of my life. When I joined PA I did not expect to have white supremacist messages of hatred and fear elevated and advocated.

Target - your post here has made it clear to me that we hold extremely different moral values. I will not debase my values or lower myself by engaging with you any further. IMO, it is pointless as I will never agree with you on this issue.

I am kindly and publicly requesting that you please refrain from commenting on any of my posts that are not directed at you. Please do not mention me or try to engage me at all. I promise from this point forward to show you the same courtesy.

Best regards

[TargeT]

Posted by abmqa (here)
What I see when I click on that link is an online publication pushing white supremacist ideology

Address the message, not the messenger, this is a very common logical fallacy......

Are you saying that Fisher v. University of Texas. did NOT happen? that court case is fantasy?

Posted by abmqa (here)
SMH, No wonder you hold the views that you do. Seems to me that if one advocates such websites as proof of your opinions, that says much about you.

What, I advocate what??? are you so unselfaware that you can't see what your doing right now?

PLEASE show me where I advocated anything... You are now lying about me and making slanderous statements, stop responding when you are emotional.. I cannot think you meant to do this.

I posted that link for the data in the article, I didn't research the messenger because that's pointless. I read the article and it's references. You are again, proudly pushing a logical fallacy..... allow me to turn the tables a bit.

I now understand a bit more why you think as you do, logic is extremely important when trying to understand a situation and logical fallacies (or mental short cuts) while extremely popular; are also extremely detrimental to the person that relies on them as tools for understanding or discussion.

Posted by abmqa (here)
I have experienced bigotry and racism for most of my life. When I joined PA I did not expect to have white supremacist messages of hatred and fear elevated and advocated.

You are accusing me of white supremacist, hatred and fear avocation?... is this because you have no argument and your ego needs some sort of come back?

is that what's happening or are you tossing up your victim card?

again, I said that I'm discussing what is happening right now, not in your past or mine; I'm sorry you had to deal with that it certainly is a ****ty situation. I have recently come to understand what it's like to live life "different" from most people as I live it 24/7 (and for the past 5 years).

Posted by abmqa (here)
Target - your post here has made it clear to me that we hold extremely different moral values. I will not debase my values or lower myself by engaging with you any further. IMO, it is pointless as I will never agree with you on this issue.

I am kindly and publicly requesting that you please refrain from commenting on any of my posts that are not directed at you. Please do not mention me or try to engage me at all. I promise from this point forward to show you the same courtesy.

Best regards

Really? because you didn't comment on a single thing I posted, you went strait for an attack on a website that I've never seen before, but now it's my whole life (convenient for you).


You just pigeonholed me, you just profiled me... all because of one link that I posted (and you completely ignored the content, just attacked the content provider).

What you are displaying here is exactly why there is a political divide, most of us do not know how to accept different opinions easily and at times we use these silly logical fallacies (because they are quick, easy mental shortcuts IMO, and deeply ingrained via media/schooling).


your "I'm taking my ball and going home" attitude doesn't do anything helpful.

I will now put you on ignore so I don't respond directly to your posts. I hope one day you will be able to objectively read things and absorb at least the thrust of this post.

[abmqa]

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by abmqa (here)
What I see when I click on that link is an online publication pushing white supremacist ideology

Address the message, not the messenger, this is a very common logical fallacy......

Are you saying that Fisher v. University of Texas. did NOT happen? that court case is fantasy?

Posted by abmqa (here)
SMH, No wonder you hold the views that you do. Seems to me that if one advocates such websites as proof of your opinions, that says much about you.

What, I advocate what??? are you so unselfaware that you can't see what your doing right now?

PLEASE show me where I advocated anything... You are now lying about me and making slanderous statements, stop responding when you are emotional.. I cannot think you meant to do this.

I posted that link for the data in the article, I didn't research the messenger because that's pointless. I read the article and it's references. You are again, proudly pushing a logical fallacy..... allow me to turn the tables a bit.

I now understand a bit more why you think as you do, logic is extremely important when trying to understand a situation and logical fallacies (or mental short cuts) while extremely popular; are also extremely detrimental to the person that relies on them as tools for understanding or discussion.

Posted by abmqa (here)
I have experienced bigotry and racism for most of my life. When I joined PA I did not expect to have white supremacist messages of hatred and fear elevated and advocated.

You are accusing me of white supremacist, hatred and fear avocation?... is this because you have no argument and your ego needs some sort of come back?

is that what's happening or are you tossing up your victim card?

again, I said that I'm discussing what is happening right now, not in your past or mine; I'm sorry you had to deal with that it certainly is a ****ty situation. I have recently come to understand what it's like to live life "different" from most people as I live it 24/7 (and for the past 5 years).

Posted by abmqa (here)
Target - your post here has made it clear to me that we hold extremely different moral values. I will not debase my values or lower myself by engaging with you any further. IMO, it is pointless as I will never agree with you on this issue.

I am kindly and publicly requesting that you please refrain from commenting on any of my posts that are not directed at you. Please do not mention me or try to engage me at all. I promise from this point forward to show you the same courtesy.

Best regards

I will now put you on ignore so I don't respond directly to your posts. I hope one day you will be able to objectively read things and absorb at least the thrust of this post.

Thank You Kindly

[Helene West]

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by Helene West (here)

You're entitled to your view. I said what I meant to. I'm well aware it's not popular. I'm not running for office. Don't need the vote. thx

it's not something that appeared overnight, it's something that has been culturally instilled for many years now.

When objectively viewed, it's impossible to deny the racism against "whites" (what ever that is, it's so vague that it fits the MO of racism). There are literally laws that enforce the "anti white" sentiment. as well as courses at every major ivy league college to enforce white guilt, TV shows that do the same, Movies that do the same, Popular sentiment that does the same... How conformist it is to still tote the all/most "whites are racist" flag... haha

This does not discount past actions, this is focused on what is happening RIGHT NOW. To not see it is very limiting, being objective when analyzing data should always be the goal. Facts are facts, and the literal laws that re-enforce anti-whiteness are there for anyone to see. The most egregious laws lasted until just one or two years ago...

Thanks Target for the links.

Of course it's clear.

Whites are being colonized in their own countries. We're forced to call it - Immigration.

It helps the elites who are doing it to keep it misnamed. Most whites will call it that because like everyone else we get our reference points from the paradigm the elites manufacture for us.

It's a rare non-white person who will acknowledge the changing pendulum and the racism against whites. They are going to hold on tight to their oppressed status. Whether it's vengeance, their own racism/racial superiority complex, the belief it will give them a competitive edge in the material world or probably most important they loathe to acknowledge the shadow side of themselves that many embody the very qualities they have accused whites of, which would mean of course they are the same as white racists.

White liberals desperately do not want to belong to the targeted group (ordinary whites) so their technique in avoiding this is to become part of the Targeters.

I'm not concerned with constant back and forth with people who don't want to acknowledge racism against whites or have a vested interested in its proliferation. It's my energy, I don't have to dissipate it. I'm more interested in whites who are on the cusp of waking up from the psy-ops perpetrated against us for the past 3 generations or so. I actually believe it will help the planet for whites to wake up from the programming to turn against themselves. That is if we're all going to heal.

[AutumnW]

Helene,

There is a top down class war going on, woth racial and cultural overtones. It takes on many forms and there are desperate people from Mexico, Central America, caught up in poverty, trying to survive. I understand your frustration if you are living in poverty and illegals entering the country have impacted your livelihood. My heart goes out to you -- and I mean that sincerely.

I think that you should regard forums like Stormfront and Breitbart with a more open analytical mind though. Because they misrepresent, exaggerate and reframe problems to suit their ideology.

[Helene West]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Helene,

There is a top down class war going on, woth racial and cultural overtones. It takes on many forms and there are desperate people from Mexico, Central America, caught up in poverty, trying to survive. I understand your frustration if you are living in poverty and illegals entering the country have impacted your livelihood. My heart goes out to you -- and I mean that sincerely.

I think that you should regard forums like Stormfront and Breitbart with a more open analytical mind though. Because they misrepresent, exaggerate and reframe problems to suit their ideology.

Autumn
the only time I read a Breitbart article are the ones occasionally posted on this forum. This forum has become my main source of news it has so many good links, vids and articles i happily don't have to go to mainstream sites anymore. I heard of this Stormfront from miles mathis essays. He considers them an Intel creation and was created for misdirection and what many call controlled opposition so you may be right about them. I've no desire to check them out. I write from my life's experience and observation and readings. Believe it or not I feel for many people. The planet is a mess. It shouldn't preclude me speaking my own truth and one shouldn't have to shut the other up. thx

[AutumnW]

Helene, Stormfront for sure seems like controlled opposition. I do understand and empathize with your direct life experience and can't argue with that. Also, I don't completely disagree with all of your conclusions, either.

After the horrendous experience in my own family with two Islamic individuals, nobody could say anything positive about Islam to me without getting a humongous blast with a side order of stfu. It has taken me three years to sort through it all, calm down and try to get perspective.

These people, including the two @¥**!!* who did so much damage to my brother-in-law and my husband in particular, are likely victims too. If I knew more about them, how they had been manipulated since childhood, the crises they have been through, it's hard for me to maintain much anger, just sadness for the situation all around.

They are so medieval in mind set, their children and grandchildren will end up abandoning their faith and them too. So I am not worried that this situation is ongoing and will never be rectified.

Take care. I wish you happiness, in the midst of some disagreement.

[TargeT]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
These people, including the two @¥**!!* who did so much damage to my brother-in-law and my husband in particular, are likely victims too. If I knew more about them, how they had been manipulated since childhood, the crises they have been through, it's hard for me to maintain much anger, just sadness for the situation all around.

That's an important realization, and your completely right. Think of how we here still struggle and we at least are aware of the (or at least some) pitfalls of the human condition, especially when it comes to strongly held belief (which causes us to physiologically respond as if we are being attacked, something we can see evidence of on this forum from time to time).

Those individuals you mention are probably very reactionary and don't even fully understand their own actions most the time; but those reactions are built on trauma and early family life (as most of ours are) and the chances of that being a positive healthy thing are very small in their situation (I'm over generalizing, and could be completely wrong for your specific circumstance.. but usually that's the case).

Plus they are brain washed much more vigorously than anyone in the west via Islam, it's hard to even conceive of that life style; or it was until I saw it first hand for 18 months.

I certainly don't condone the attacks that are going on in the EU; but I completely understand them as I know the "general vibe" of that culture... and, after understanding it... I even slightly agree with their take on western culture (definitely not with their methods of dealing with it).

But here's where we run into trouble, because if I state I am against immigration, the topic is already so emotionally charged that by making a statement for or against you immediately take on these extra thought constructs.. People assume they know your motivation for your feelings, you get pigeon holed and discussions go no where.


You seem to be able to accept the dissonance of at once feeling extreme betrayal and anger; but also seeing how those actions stem from larger issues and those individuals were not "evil incarnate", just more abused humans with an extremely different cultural background.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=1Evwgu369Jw

[Hervé]

[Mod Hat: ON]

I have removed the embedded links to Jared Taylor's website American Renaissance since it is deemed a white supremacist publication. The consensus on the Project Avalon team is to refuse to help promote such hatred.

[Mod Hat: OFF]

Additional note from Bill: I've made what I hope is a clear statement about this on the Moderators Actions thread.

• https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78116-RECORD-of-MODERATOR-ACTIONS&p=1150962&viewfull=1#post1150962

[AutumnW]

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by AutumnW (here)
These people, including the two @¥**!!* who did so much damage to my brother-in-law and my husband in particular, are likely victims too. If I knew more about them, how they had been manipulated since childhood, the crises they have been through, it's hard for me to maintain much anger, just sadness for the situation all around.

That's an important realization, and your completely right. Think of how we here still struggle and we at least are aware of the (or at least some) pitfalls of the human condition, especially when it comes to strongly held belief (which causes us to physiologically respond as if we are being attacked, something we can see evidence of on this forum from time to time).

Those individuals you mention are probably very reactionary and don't even fully understand their own actions most the time; but those reactions are built on trauma and early family life (as most of ours are) and the chances of that being a positive healthy thing are very small in their situation (I'm over generalizing, and could be completely wrong for your specific circumstance.. but usually that's the case).

Plus they are brain washed much more vigorously than anyone in the west via Islam, it's hard to even conceive of that life style; or it was until I saw it first hand for 18 months.

I certainly don't condone the attacks that are going on in the EU; but I completely understand them as I know the "general vibe" of that culture... and, after understanding it... I even slightly agree with their take on western culture (definitely not with their methods of dealing with it).

But here's where we run into trouble, because if I state I am against immigration, the topic is already so emotionally charged that by making a statement for or against you immediately take on these extra thought constructs.. People assume they know your motivation for your feelings, you get pigeon holed and discussions go no where.


You seem to be able to accept the dissonance of at once feeling extreme betrayal and anger; but also seeing how those actions stem from larger issues and those individuals were not "evil incarnate", just more abused humans with an extremely different cultural background.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=1Evwgu369Jw

Thanks Target,

Getting over reflexive hatred and or contempt nearly broke my brain but I hope I have successfully done it. Binary thinking is a 'safe space' that might as well be equipped with white chalk on a black chalkboard. Reality is more fluid, much more rubbery.

[Flash]

Those are interesting comments below:

I must tell a story of mine that happened in western Florida. I was there with Mini Flash, having dolphin therapies sessions for her, staying for a whole month, 3 years in a row.

I do have a strong accent in English (being French Canadian) as Target and Sierra who have heard me can attest.

We were renting in a small condos outlet not far from the beach, which had a swimming pool. My daughter had no friends and was getting bored.

At one point, two families came in the condo near ours for a few days, and they had a daughter the age of mine. So I told my daughter, wow a friend for you. The two little girls were getting along (my daughter speaks English without accent, although she is not always straight in grammar, being partially aphasic).

And we would speak French when speaking to each other, daughter and I.

So the mom of the little girl, hearing us, asked me - where are you from?- I answered - from Montreal - she said - where is Montreal? - I answered from Quebec, and looking at her face I added, in Canada - the third question, in that order, was - which religion are you from? I hesitated, in fact not remembering which religion I was from, surprised by the question. Then I pulled together and said - I have been raised catholic to which she answered - it is not Muslim.

Anyhow, the following days, her little girl did not play with mine, no fault of mine. Catholic was probably not good enough, and accented worst. I could imagine what being of Arab looking must have felt like. Or having to do with racism.

On the other hand, every country I have lived in, I did have racism against me, being White accented (lolllù) North American - sometimes others believing I know or I am more, coming from a rich continent, other times people despising me to the point of showing lots of hatred or disrespect because I was white or mostly they thought I was American. This kind of racism exist elsewhere too.

Posted by abmqa (here)

Posted by marique3652 (here)

Posted by Sierra (here)
Autumn,

I'm a bit confused here.

Islamic people are zero threat to Americans who were born in the U.S. You could absorb hundreds of thousands and it would barely make a dent in your cultural values. The greatest threat or contagion from Islam, would be having more 'ethnic foods' and restaurants to choose from. And seeing as most of us have been inoculated by eating humus, it might actually be a win win.

Are you speaking of Islamic people born and raised in the U.S. and are therefore American citizens, are zero threat? I'd say they are for the most part no more dangerous than any other American born citizen, which is not to say zero.

Statistically, I'd say more American Muslims are being targeted by violence rather than executors of violence, a facet of the times we live in.

I think I may have not understood what Autumn was saying, I did not pick up the nuance that she was referring to Muslims who have grown up in the US and are citizens. The misplaced adjective tripped me up and so I misinterpreted that part of it. In that case I still disagree that there is ZERO threat, but I think that the US residing Muslim citizens are not as imminent a threat, the Muslims that I feel may pose a threat are the ones coming into the country that come in illegally and chose not to assimilate into our culture and create violence and exhibit a behavior of defiance and ones desiring domination.

I do tend to agree somewhat with Sierra that Muslim citizens here are threatened and victims of violence often as well.

I found an interesting link with lots of statistic worth perusing, but cannot at all verify if it is a realistic picture or one that is meant to create a conclusion that may or may not be correct. Here is the link for all interested. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/ar...y-the-numbers/

Hi Marique,

I just wanted to relate to you something I witnessed. Shortly after 9-11, I went to Baskin Robbins for ice cream. As I approached the store there was a family sitting outside at a table having ice cream. I'm not sure if they were Muslims they looked to be from India - just guessing. Anyway as they sat there, they all had miniature US flags that they would wave every now and then. It struck me that they were afraid and were waving the US flags in order to show US patriotism so as not to get attacked. They were afraid because they looked similar to those who supposedly carried out the attacks on 9-11.

As I reflected on this, I thought how sad it is to have to live in fear, just because you look different.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by TargeT (here)
the topic is already so emotionally charged

Indeed - sad.

Our land of trust and sound rhetoric has been seeded with landmines.

Even to discuss the landmines risks triggering another explosion.

We must walk with caution on the lands that (speaking metaphorically) our forefathers ancestors hunt and plowed and tilled.

[Chester]

The Australian Prime Minister talks with Bret Baier

Start at around 1:45...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=oY2m7eaIwbI

Bret: "Your immigration policy essentially says, If someone comes in illegally, they have to leave."

Malcolm Turnbull: "We are a very, very multicultural society and we have achieved that with a remarkable degree of harmony. Now, a foundation of that is the public having absolute confidence that their government and their government alone determines who comes to Australia, how long they stay, the terms and conditions on which they stay. That is our sovereign right and sovereign responsibility. So we have a generous humanitarian program but we say, if you seek to come to Australia unlawfully with the people smuggler, you will not succeed full stop. That is absolutely, absolutely fundamental.


Sam asks, "Is there anything to disagree about regarding Australia's immigration policy?"

"Is Turnbell (and Australia's) policy wrong... wrong to have... wrong to enforce?"

If so, please share the reasons.

If not, can anyone point out the difference between this policy and Australia's record for enforcement and the what Trump's agenda wants for the US?

Can anyone cite the reasons the US has a big problem with the matter and Australia doesn't?

[Ewan]

Posted by araucaria (here)
<snip>
Since the species in question started out with a reptilian brain, it has had two brain upgrades, not to mention countless other types of upgrade. I reckon another is in the pipeline.
<snip>

I don't think we'll get a third one until we've (collectively) better adapted our current version to handling the emotion sub-routine.

The Vulcans effectively incised their's by refusing to engage it, hence it atrophied away. Humans on the other hand have a wild horse that refuses to be tamed, breaking down the fences and running free at the most inappropriate times.

[petra]

Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
Regarding DNA's post #6 above...

One of my operational protocols is that I try my best not to represent any opinion I might hold as unequivocal fact. I am glad that DNA stated his opinion to be "his view." Just for the record, based on all my research and based on my perceived rise in "having a clue," I make odds pretty good that much if not all of what DNA suggests is likely true.

This view is also what I call, "a helicopter view." Seeing the big picture of the big goal(s) from way up above. It is my own opinion that exploring our world from this angle could be quite useful. It is also my opinion that for someone like me to do anything about any of it (if anything can be done) would need to start from the ground up because I am a bottom dweller from the perspective of the world's elite. I am a nobody who, if not for the words I write on this forum, am most likely invisible to the elite.

Hi Sam, nice to see you're still operating within normal parameters! I don't normally chime in on what I don't know anything about, but these words you have here are making me happy and sad at the same time! The last thing you are is insignificant, and you are most definitely not invisible. That is just my opinion of course

Any way, I'm interested to read along more of this thread now, thank you for posting

[petra]

Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
Just an observation -

Interesting that this thread has sat all day without anyone offering any solutions. Opinions as to why things are as they are... but no one has anything to suggest in the way of any solution(s). I guess exploring solutions isn't sexy enough. Sad that.

My solution is like secret santa. All the countries put their names in a hat, and whoever they choose, they need to give a present. a BIG present...

Sorry... I'm not supposed to be joking I'm just cynical

[petra]

Posted by TargeT (here)
My solution on immigration is simple: don't promote "oil and water" cultures to mix, we have so many historical and current examples of how this fails.... why continue?

Because people just can't mind their own business I guess? I like this solution. Not to promote racism, but I side with the racists when they say "we will not mix"... that's their right after all

[Chester]

The four most important females in my life right now...



Cristina, with the sunglasses on her head - to me she's the Queen of Colombia. From the heart of Medellin. The more she reveals her story, the more I understand what true real courage, perseverance and unselfishness can be.

Hollie, to the right with the clear glasses... tells me I am the only father she's ever really had. She is my son, Anthony's, wife. Her Mom is from Viet Nam. Her mother's mother too. Her grandfather, a GI from the US back in the day... her father's parents both Vietnamese as well. She never knew her dad.

Alejandra on the left, Cristina's only child... whose father, when he was told Cristina was pregnant with his child did what too many men seem to do... ran off after having been with Cristina for the prior five years.

Kim, with the bow around her head... my only (so far) grand child. She owns my heart.

I just thought it was a good time to share about these amazing women from my wonderful family. I am just feeling very grateful tonight... apologies.

[turiya]

[Forum Member Hat: ON]

Now, if only it were that easy to remove hatred that lay embedded within more than just a few human minds...

Trump Surrounded - Michael Del Rosso, 1605
(Published on May 4, 2017)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=VXiJI1QF9os

THIS VIDEO IS ABOUT:

Michael Del Rosso is one of the leading national security scholars in the United States. He us a Senior Fellow for Homeland and National Security at the Center for Security Policy, and a Research Fellow in National Security Policy at the Claremont Institute.

As you’ll see, Del Rosso speaks with great precision, spewing out fact after fact. Therefore, he asked me to make 4 corrections in this interview, which I will note as text as it proceeds.

________________________________

'Hijrah', or jihad by emigration

See The Hijrah Into Europe by Robert Spencer.

[Forum Member Hat: OFF]