Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

[turiya]

Sorry, marique... I got it wrong. We seemed to be just a split second apart...
thanks for the correction.

Article links:
http://shoebat.com/2015/10/09/muslim...aped-to-death/
http://freedomoutpost.com/muslims-fo...aped-to-death/
http://www.14words.net/2015/11/musli...-to-watch.html
http://www.iol.co.za/dailynews/news/...-raped-1480693
https://lockerdome.com/jewsnews/9175747529071380
http://madworldnews.com/muslims-make-mother-watch/

[abmqa]

Posted by marique3652 (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by marique3652 (here)
If I am a person who is not fit to belong here, maybe Bill will tell me to leave. Until he does I will continue to be a member.

Well, I heard my name there, and feel kind of invoked.

No-one's telling anyone to leave. I think the general issues discussed here (or, that are open to be discussed) are really important. They affect us all, and our future, and there are agendas at play, and our emotions are often engineered (by others, of course) to run very high.

The issues are often cultural. Not always 'racial'. I'm certain of that.

And the NWO agenda is all about a drip-feed erosion of nation-states, national boundaries, and the Vitamix-blending of all distinct, colorful cultures into some dreadful, gray, consumer-puppeteered, media-hypnotized mediocrity. Look at the EU. It's a case study for us all.

My situation in Ecuador is interesting, because I'm the migrant who should not be here.

I can legally live here (and my residency here is all 100% good), but culturally I'm a square-peg-in-a-round-hole misfit. I don't go to Church, barely speak the language, don't understand what all the local festivals are — and I have little genuine interest in them anyway. I like the local people, I really do, but my language skills aren't conversational enough to engage any other than superficially.

I should really 'go home' — except that (like Syrian refugees) I have no home to go to. I have no family, no roots, no nothing. I am literally a kind of homeless nomad.

I'm not here in Ecuador as an 'economic migrant', but my entire reason to be here is self-interest of various kinds. I'm certainly not here to help Ecuador. That was never in my thoughts. It was all about me. (With most people, it is. Just telling it straight here.)

And I feel the locals' thoughts, sometimes. Not everywhere — but in some places, with a few people I run into. Basically, the locals are gradually, slowly, becoming fearful of the future, and resentful of the invaders which they, personally, never invited. They feel they have no control.

More and more Americans are coming to Ecuador. Simply because it's cheaper, healthier, or (for some) safer. It's an easy option, at Ecuador's expense.

It's all self-interest. And there's very little integration.

In Vilcabamba, it's broken into real violence. A different story, not to be told here, but black magic shamans are picking off the gringos there like snipers. Not a joke.

People are being killed, burglarized, raped. Because a handful of resistance fighter local shamans see them as just more white Conquistadores, with an arrogant, superior sense of entitlement. These local guys, just a few, but with quite a lot of power, want them all dead. They really do. It's quite an untold story.

None of this is 'racism'. None at all. It's all about cultural heritage, sovereignty, territory, respect — or the lack of it. And integration, or the lack of that. The black magic shamans believe they're freedom fighters, reclaiming their stolen land.

I don't support their extreme approach, of course — that's all karmically going to implode on them, and they really hurt people, badly (or worse) — but I actually understand how they feel.

I'm not racist, at all. I was brought up in West Africa as a young child, and since then have traveled extensively in Africa and India. I genuinely love those people. I don't care about anyone's race or skin color. That's like caring about the color of someone's car, or house.

But if I was an Ecuadorian, I would absolutely not want me here.



***

@ Marique, please post the link to your rape/murder story. That might help. If it's easy to find, you should be able to dig it up no problem. Thanks. The best defense against being called a liar is always to show proof of the truth.

Thank you Bill for not asking me to leave, I know many wish I would. I am struggling with a lot of personal tragedies at the moment and I see in hindsight I should have kept my pain and struggling to myself. I have made many members here very angry and that was not my intent. I just took a chance and said how I felt and what I am struggling with, and in hindsight it was not a good idea. I did learn a lot from the responses though, and really saw why people think I am a bigot. I totally get it now. It is something that I am going to have to work through, and I appreciate you letting me stay, and I will try not to anger people any more. I will try to think things out before I share in the future, and be very careful not to hurt any one's feelings or overgeneralize or categorize people.. I realized that if I were ranting about brutal behaviors and not labeling people that I would have been far better off, a lesson I will carry forward. Dennis's test were good ones, and it opened my mind to my black and white thinking, and for that I am grateful. Below I have shared links about what I spoke of. I really should not have to prove I am not a liar or troll, but if I am to stay here, maybe this once it might be helpful. The Mainstream media never shares these types of horror stories because it does not support their agenda and their story that there is no problem with forced mixing of opposing cultures. My fears are real to me, and I am thankful that people took me to task, but wish in the future that if someone has a deep problem with me, they would have the courtesy to privately talk with me, and not take pot shots at me personally on the main board. I have always tried to be polite and nonoffensive in my dealings with members here and will hope that I will not be ostracized publicly on this forum. I feel like now I have alienated many members and that was not my intent, and I hate the feeling that I am not good enough to be a member here, and that everyone will think of me as that bigot troll. But also the experience has taught me about how many Muslims feel, and I will have more compassion for their plights as well.

http://shoebat.com/2015/10/09/muslim...aped-to-death/
http://freedomoutpost.com/muslims-fo...aped-to-death/
http://www.14words.net/2015/11/musli...-to-watch.html
http://www.iol.co.za/dailynews/news/...-raped-1480693
https://lockerdome.com/jewsnews/9175747529071380
http://madworldnews.com/muslims-make-mother-watch/

There are more links but it is painful for me to keep digging. This was a horror that no mother should have to endure. I raised 11 sons, two I have lost to senseless brutal murders. I know the pain of losing a child (mine were grown) to violence and have them die at the hands of barbarians in war. It is not easy to deal with, the struggle is every day. I will honestly try not to let this color my thinking, but dammit, it is not easy. All I can promise is to keep my feelings to myself if that is what everyone wishes.

Hi Marique,

You have seen me be quite vocal about this subject, yet I have not before now addressed your comments here publicly. I for one do not want to see you leave or be banned. From reading your initial post here I got the strong impression of you being a nice person who is extremely and genuinely afraid. Although I don't agree with how you expressed that fear, I certainly do understand it and commiserate with you.

I wish that there was something I could say or do to change what has happened and alleviate your pain, but that is not in my power. There are many throughout the world that would like to cause us harm and inflict pain and terror. However, if you allow them to change the person that you are then they have achieved their goal.

The facts are there are groups of Radical Islamist's that we are currently at war with. There are also millions and millions of Muslims who are honest, and peaceful people. People like you and I, who's only desire is to be happy and live in peace. It's important not to group all of them together lest we insult one group while rightly criticizing the other.

I am very sorry that you have had this tragedy in your life. I hope one day you will find peace of mind.

[marique3652]

Posted by Flash (here)
Interesting comments, about heresay. I must tell you all here on Avalon that whenever i give comments, similar to those of Marique, my comments are not heresay. They are based on lived experiences by me, no one else usually.

Most men will not understand what I am talking about, because most men have not been submitted to harsh sex segregation against them.

In the Muslim world, Turkey is pretty tolerant about other religions and has been for centuries as well as about women rights. I had no difficulties with males while living there.

But I had plenty difficulties in Canada in business where I had to have male colleagues repeating word for word what I would say as an expert in my field, because as a woman, I would not be listen to by the Muslim clients I was talking to, but the colleagues, as males, could be listened to and received answers even if they knew zip zero in the field.

I had problems with my immigrant Muslim ultra sexist boss (he had me by roll of the dice because his choice was to only have male consultants working for him, I was the only female in his team and gosh was i harassed psychologically - may Canadian colleagues hated him but would do nothing to protect the only female of their team - that is leniency of our peers that they count on).

I had problems at university where a large population of Muslim foreign students were studying as well, as I had in Montreal streets and stores, and in France.

those were not constant problems everywhere, but definitely regularly recurring ones involving mainly Muslim men.

As I have been married to a non practicing Muslim, I read the Quran inside out as well as books explaining it to make sure I understood their religion and where their culture came from. So I could tell my daughter that following their laws, she is Muslim (the dad gives the religion) but to not tell this to Muslims because fanatic may kill her - she never practiced that religion and is areligious and this is death penalty following Sharia law.

Let me tell you, this religion is the worst when it comes to woman. The bible is a piece of real bad and violent work (my opinion), maybe describing the societies of its time, but the Quran is far from better, it is worst. The Quran is an edict of different societal laws for tribes that would not stop making war and had unclean behavior, for the societies of its time.

Both have no place in today's world in my opinion. They both promote intolerance and hatred. The difference being that the Bible writings does not promote killing everyone one else if they do not convert to christianism (although the crusaders did 1000 years ago). The Quran does, in its writings through the jihad, to which every practicing Muslim is obliged to submit. Most Muslims won't kill, but the fanatics will and that makes them earn right to Heaven after they pass away.

As a woman, I have to refuse Muslim based behaviors and religion, which are extremely repressive for women and girls. As I have to refuse children having access to porn and occidental hyper sexualisation of children, as I have to refuse morally detrimental and psychologically destructive behaviors and laws.

Posted by marique3652 (here)

"Are you saying that raping young girls to death is a prominent feature of Muslim countries? They have a long way to go in terms of gender equality, granted, but this incident would be considered deplorable by the majority of Muslims. Though you appear to be struggling with generalizing from specifics, your following statements continue to do just that."

"Islamic people are zero threat to Americans who were born in the U.S. You could absorb hundreds of thousands and it would barely make a dent in your cultural values. The greatest threat or contagion from Islam, would be having more 'ethnic foods' and restaurants to choose from. And seeing as most of us have been inoculated by eating humus, it might actually be a win win.

I may accuse you of generalizing as well when you say there is NO threat. May I ask for you to substantiate that Islamic people are ZERO threat to Americans born in the US? What is your substantiating facts that lead you to your conclusion? I am only interested in facts and not your opinion or world view. My view comes from many sources, a direct ongoing 20 year friendship with an Muslim woman in Iraq who was raised with Muslim ideology, who has lived through experiences at the hands of Muslim men that you have never had. Have you lived with Muslims, have you ever even talked with a muslim man and woman? I read the news, watch the news daily, as see a lot of what happens when a country ends up with peoples whose values are very opposed to one another. I correspond daily with a dear male non-muslim friend in Paris who tells me of all the negative changes in Paris as the result of out of control immigration. If you can prove to me factually that there is ZERO threat to our country, then I will be very surprised. Have your even read the Quran, have you taken the time to read all the information available about what Sharia law is. I have read the Quran twice and I also have greatly studied the Sharia Law system. Have you? I am sure you are thinking that my beliefs come from heresay, and I will beat you to the punch by saying yes a lot is heresay from dear friends who are actually living with Muslims. But I also have done extensive research in quest for answers, and wondering if you did too. I am just interested in how you came to the conclusion that there is no threat to this country, and want to point out that you are just as guilty of generalizing. We will never agree just wanted to point out what you said and await your explanation as to why they pose ZERO threat to America?? I am very interested.

Thank you Flash, your contribution to this discussion is valuable to me, actually all comments and sharings have been very helpful to me, even the ones that hurt my feelings. I agree about the quran and I agree that this ideology does not favor women one bit. Sharia law scares the hell out of me to be honest, and I for one cannot understand how many in the feminist movement are actually WANTING Sharia law...It is beyond a mystery to me, as all the rights we have currently as women would be lost and we would become male possessions, that can be brutalized at the will of any man/men with no consequence, because it is permitted and condone in their "holy" book. That frightens me. I know now everyone will jump on my crap for saying it frightens me but dam!

[marique3652]

Posted by Tangri (here)

Posted by marique3652 (here)
I have decided to put back up my previous comment that I deleted because I see it did not go away anyway, still in every one's comments. So here it is. Yes it does sound bigoted and I guess I am a bigot but so what? I have every much the right to say how I feel. Anyone who makes fun of my sharing of my feelings and criticizes me as a person and demeans me is a bigot too as they are bigoted against my feelings and opinions.

I agree up to a point that America should take in the poor, the homeless, the tempest tossed. However are we as a whole supposed to welcome people who hate us, are jealous, and want to destroy this country and take it over, to rape our women, cut off our daughter's clitorises, rape our children, beat our women, stone them and behead them or kill family members if they wish because they worship a murderous, bloodthirsty pedophile who advocated that anyone that does not believe in allah should be killed? As a freedom loving American I welcome immigrants but do not welcome people who wish us harm, and I am sorry if that makes me a bad person. Would you want a male Muslim babysitting for your children, and would you trust them alone with your daughters and wives. If the answer is no then that is because it is unwise to invite someone whom believes in violence and rape into your home. I just call that common sense. Would you put your child in a room with many poisonous snakes and some snakes that are not, would you risk it that they may get bitten by a poisonous snake. Just asking. Now I am sure you think me a bad American, but welcoming concept sometimes has to use some reasoning too. Muslims as a whole do not want to assimilate, they want to take over our country. I for one want a future for my granddaughter where she does not have to live in fear. I for one do not want to see life for women like back into the dark ages where they are just objects for a man's pleasure. I for one do not want to have to stay inside to avoid being raped or mugged or killed. Read the other day that some mayor in Sweden told the women to just get used to staying inside, and not going to public places as they may get raped or killed or both, and that they just should get used to it. I do not want that for America, but if you collectively do, then I guess I am a horrible person, a Muslimophobe. Sorry for the ramble but it makes me feel good to get it out, lol.

So there, I have said it again. There are words I would have changed, but I am keeping it the same.

Would you put your child in a room with many poisonous snakes and some snakes that are not, would you risk it that they may get bitten by a poisonous snake.

Shame on you!

Shame on me if I don't say anything to your kind.

I am not proud of saying that, but it was the analogy that popped into my head. Raising eleven children, I always was watchful for anyone or anything that could hurt my children. I taught my children not to go off with strangers or take food or candy for anyone. I taught my children that just because a person is an adult that they are not obliged to blindly do what an adult tells them to do, that it is up to ME to monitor their behavior. I did teach them to not let anyone violate their body or make them uncomfortable, I taught them not to steal or hurt others. And yes, if I felt that a situation or people seem a danger to them, to let me know what is going on. The protection instinct is very great with me and if sometimes I go overboard in my protection of them, I make no apology. If I had had any daughters then I probably would have been even more protective I can honestly say. I ran into a similar dilemma when the issue of bathrooms allowing opposite genders in the bathroom. I got literally kicked to the curb when I said on a forum that there should be a bathroom for people who are biologically one gender while identifying as another. So I am no stranger to getting labeled and hated on for voicing my safety concerns. I still feel that anyone who feels that it is ok to kill or maim people because their holy book instructs them to and condones that behavior CAN be a potential threat to loved ones. I am now talking about ideology and not a race. I am talking about behaviors and belief systems that I feel could be dangerous. I know not all Muslims are like that, but having had two sons killed by Muslim men, I stand by that danger can be very real, and shaming me will not change my stance that sometimes people's belief systems can pose a threat to my family. Something I am not proud of and working on trying to change, but yes, I can honestly say that I would not shut my kids in a room of poisonous deadly snakes along with non poisonous ones, and hope that they are not bitten and killed. I stand by that. Yes horrible analogy, yes a gross overgeneralization, but it is what I feel, no matter how irrational that may seem. I am sorry if I have offended anyone, I truly am, but any danger to my family is something I take seriously, even if it is offensive to do so.

[abmqa]

Posted by Flash (here)

Posted by abmqa (here)

It's when we are silent in the face of reprehensible behavior that we too become complicit in allowing it to continue unchallenged. I for one will always speak out against such issues. As I often ask myself; If not me, then who?

that I did not pass that test with a 100% score because I answered the question below with this answer, however I think I aced the rest of it.

Here's a quick self-test:

All women are _Crazy?_. <--- fill-in the correct word. Answer: yes woman are crazy, they are crazy about men - that is why the world is going so bad lolllllllllllll

Just kidding!

Anyway, I will miss you and I feel all of PA will miss you also.

[COLOR="red"]same here, i was glad you were back and will happy again if you get back again

Now, to answer to the post comment above, - it is when silent in the face of reprehensible behavior -

this is exactly where the hit comes down: we cannot speak about it even when in the mist of reprehensible behavior, but this time, it is the majority who cannot speak out, not the minority.

In Canada we have HATE LAWS that stipulate that you cannot speak against a group or literally be racist, the Jewish community has used it abundantly to shut up people (David Ike for example) who speak for Palestine or against Israel or against the Jewish community in Canada.

And now the Muslims are succeeding in taking the law to force people not to speak against Islam.

We are not talking against a people or even a country here, we are talking against a religion, involving multiple countries and a vast multicultural basis.

The only difference between Islam and Judea is that Jews are a quite a close knit society and do not want anybody else to get into their nest (keep the power within for a chosen few) while Islam targets assimilation of the whole planet under their umbrella. (expand to take power over many and to dictate through Sharia).

This precisely IS INVATION from a minority group, this is not inclusion nor assimilation, on the contrary.

And the majority is too stupid not to see it, we let our governments be lenient or even helping.

Let me tell you, in my city, I do not feel like at home in many many neighborhoods anymore. I bet anything that many citizen of Cuenca in Ecuador or other cities in the world invaded by occidental feel the same.

Sometimes I am in South America, sometimes in North Africa, sometimes in Central Africa, depending on the neighborhoods I am walking through and almost always with complete disdain for the French Canadian. This from 1st generation immigrants, transmitted to their kids. Most immigrants are nice, but they are not being integrated, less assimilated.

The prime example of integration is Sam family. This is not happening in most places in my city.

Before, there was the Italian mafia (imported yeah!), the Hells Angels (mostly French in French Quebec since they assimilate lollllllllllll) and that was it.

Now there is the Italian mafia, the Hells Angels, the Vietnamese mafia, the Chinese mafia, the 13 (Salvador), the Columbian mafia, Oh... and the RUSSIAN mafia (those are tough), and the street gangs , mainly black, who are now adults and turned into real mafia, no arabic mafia!!!!???? (no need, they have the jihad and the oil, together)- how come we do not have the Swedish mafia or the French one from France?? - not to name the Jewish mafia because those are never arrested, all of these non integrated mafias.

Why don't we have ONE ONLY integrated mafia??? Yes silly, but that is exactly what the world government is trying to impose on us, citizens. With one integrated mafia we would know what we are confronting, us the regular small citizen. So, better dilute everything.

Why? Precisely because certain cultures do not match, even within mafia groups, and pitting them one against the other allows for cultural backlash and overall societal mafia take over, same as in the general population.

Mafia wars until we get one world government govern them under the auspice of an umbrella mafia covering all aspects. In between, many mafias and many mixes of societies to destroy all potential opposition.

Same with the general populations and different identities.

All this being said, I do think the planet has to come to a whole planet, without division, but certainly not the way it is being done now, and certainly not under service to self entities as we have now.

Hi Flash - I don't know what the mafia is like in Canada, or that there was a mafia there. I was born and raised in New Jersey. The mafia as it existed here has extremely strict rules pertaining to heritage. If you're not full blood Italian, then you cannot be "Made". Now that stated, that doesn't mean non-Italians could not work for them. It just means you are not afforded the same protections and benefits of being made.

I understood the hate laws were to prevent entire groups of people from being discriminated against because of ethnicity or religion. Where you say the Jewish community have used them to shut down people like David Icke. I do not want to speak for him, however I think he would correct you by sayings it's the Zionist Jews, rather than the entire Jewish community that is primarily to blame.

[marique3652]

Posted by abmqa (here)

Posted by marique3652 (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by marique3652 (here)
If I am a person who is not fit to belong here, maybe Bill will tell me to leave. Until he does I will continue to be a member.

Well, I heard my name there, and feel kind of invoked.

No-one's telling anyone to leave. I think the general issues discussed here (or, that are open to be discussed) are really important. They affect us all, and our future, and there are agendas at play, and our emotions are often engineered (by others, of course) to run very high.

The issues are often cultural. Not always 'racial'. I'm certain of that.

And the NWO agenda is all about a drip-feed erosion of nation-states, national boundaries, and the Vitamix-blending of all distinct, colorful cultures into some dreadful, gray, consumer-puppeteered, media-hypnotized mediocrity. Look at the EU. It's a case study for us all.

My situation in Ecuador is interesting, because I'm the migrant who should not be here.

I can legally live here (and my residency here is all 100% good), but culturally I'm a square-peg-in-a-round-hole misfit. I don't go to Church, barely speak the language, don't understand what all the local festivals are — and I have little genuine interest in them anyway. I like the local people, I really do, but my language skills aren't conversational enough to engage any other than superficially.

I should really 'go home' — except that (like Syrian refugees) I have no home to go to. I have no family, no roots, no nothing. I am literally a kind of homeless nomad.

I'm not here in Ecuador as an 'economic migrant', but my entire reason to be here is self-interest of various kinds. I'm certainly not here to help Ecuador. That was never in my thoughts. It was all about me. (With most people, it is. Just telling it straight here.)

And I feel the locals' thoughts, sometimes. Not everywhere — but in some places, with a few people I run into. Basically, the locals are gradually, slowly, becoming fearful of the future, and resentful of the invaders which they, personally, never invited. They feel they have no control.

More and more Americans are coming to Ecuador. Simply because it's cheaper, healthier, or (for some) safer. It's an easy option, at Ecuador's expense.

It's all self-interest. And there's very little integration.

In Vilcabamba, it's broken into real violence. A different story, not to be told here, but black magic shamans are picking off the gringos there like snipers. Not a joke.

People are being killed, burglarized, raped. Because a handful of resistance fighter local shamans see them as just more white Conquistadores, with an arrogant, superior sense of entitlement. These local guys, just a few, but with quite a lot of power, want them all dead. They really do. It's quite an untold story.

None of this is 'racism'. None at all. It's all about cultural heritage, sovereignty, territory, respect — or the lack of it. And integration, or the lack of that. The black magic shamans believe they're freedom fighters, reclaiming their stolen land.

I don't support their extreme approach, of course — that's all karmically going to implode on them, and they really hurt people, badly (or worse) — but I actually understand how they feel.

I'm not racist, at all. I was brought up in West Africa as a young child, and since then have traveled extensively in Africa and India. I genuinely love those people. I don't care about anyone's race or skin color. That's like caring about the color of someone's car, or house.

But if I was an Ecuadorian, I would absolutely not want me here.



***

@ Marique, please post the link to your rape/murder story. That might help. If it's easy to find, you should be able to dig it up no problem. Thanks. The best defense against being called a liar is always to show proof of the truth.

Thank you Bill for not asking me to leave, I know many wish I would. I am struggling with a lot of personal tragedies at the moment and I see in hindsight I should have kept my pain and struggling to myself. I have made many members here very angry and that was not my intent. I just took a chance and said how I felt and what I am struggling with, and in hindsight it was not a good idea. I did learn a lot from the responses though, and really saw why people think I am a bigot. I totally get it now. It is something that I am going to have to work through, and I appreciate you letting me stay, and I will try not to anger people any more. I will try to think things out before I share in the future, and be very careful not to hurt any one's feelings or overgeneralize or categorize people.. I realized that if I were ranting about brutal behaviors and not labeling people that I would have been far better off, a lesson I will carry forward. Dennis's test were good ones, and it opened my mind to my black and white thinking, and for that I am grateful. Below I have shared links about what I spoke of. I really should not have to prove I am not a liar or troll, but if I am to stay here, maybe this once it might be helpful. The Mainstream media never shares these types of horror stories because it does not support their agenda and their story that there is no problem with forced mixing of opposing cultures. My fears are real to me, and I am thankful that people took me to task, but wish in the future that if someone has a deep problem with me, they would have the courtesy to privately talk with me, and not take pot shots at me personally on the main board. I have always tried to be polite and nonoffensive in my dealings with members here and will hope that I will not be ostracized publicly on this forum. I feel like now I have alienated many members and that was not my intent, and I hate the feeling that I am not good enough to be a member here, and that everyone will think of me as that bigot troll. But also the experience has taught me about how many Muslims feel, and I will have more compassion for their plights as well.

http://shoebat.com/2015/10/09/muslim...aped-to-death/
http://freedomoutpost.com/muslims-fo...aped-to-death/
http://www.14words.net/2015/11/musli...-to-watch.html
http://www.iol.co.za/dailynews/news/...-raped-1480693
https://lockerdome.com/jewsnews/9175747529071380
http://madworldnews.com/muslims-make-mother-watch/

There are more links but it is painful for me to keep digging. This was a horror that no mother should have to endure. I raised 11 sons, two I have lost to senseless brutal murders. I know the pain of losing a child (mine were grown) to violence and have them die at the hands of barbarians in war. It is not easy to deal with, the struggle is every day. I will honestly try not to let this color my thinking, but dammit, it is not easy. All I can promise is to keep my feelings to myself if that is what everyone wishes.

Hi Marique,

You have seen me be quite vocal about this subject, yet I have not before now addressed your comments here publicly. I for one do not want to see you leave or be banned. From reading your initial post here I got the strong impression of you being a nice person who is extremely and genuinely afraid. Although I don't agree with how you expressed that fear, I certainly do understand it and commiserate with you.

I wish that there was something I could say or do to change what has happened and alleviate your pain, but that is not in my power. There are many throughout the world that would like to cause us harm and inflict pain and terror. However, if you allow them to change the person that you are then they have achieved their goal.

The facts are there are groups of Radical Islamist's that we are currently at war with. There are also millions and millions of Muslims who are honest, and peaceful people. People like you and I, who's only desire is to be happy and live in peace. It's important not to group all of them together lest we insult one group while rightly criticizing the other.

I am very sorry that you have had this tragedy in your life. I hope one day you will find peace of mind.

Thank you Abmaqa. I do appreciate your reply and agree wholeheartedly that I did over generalize and did not think before I spouted off. It was not kind of me, and in fact was totally stupid. I have just been struggling so much these last few years, and sometimes I get overwhelmed with all sorts of conflicted emotions, regrets and personal stuff that it has colored my actions, which I am working through, and I appreciate all the input into and spotlight on my behavior. It has actually been beneficial, I am just sorry for being offensive.

[Helene West]

Posted by abmqa (here)

Posted by Helene West (here)

Posted by abmqa (here)

Posted by Helene West (here)
I hit the thanks button on Mr. Leahy's message only because he chose to do the right thing and take leave. His apology doesn't mean much to me as once you put a slanderous label on someone that's it, damage done.

I considered reapplying to the forum and obtain a different user name because of his targeting, which I know I wouldn't have been the first or last to do so, but his was such a common reaction to dealing with perceptions that conflict with his own and though I was bothered by his targeting but was neither 'shamed' as he flatters himself to have caused, nor bothered to that great extent, I decided to not get another user name.

Unfortunately one cannot put a mod on Ignore. As I'm as passionate in my views as he is in his, his mind-set was only going to steer him in the next inevitability - censorship.

There are cultural trends taking place in our society that are not palatable to say the least and I write my interpretations without vulgarities and without naming other board members. If I were to be censored it would be a reflection of qualities that run counter to the creation of the forum, not a reflection of wrongdoing on my part. And life goes on....

Really?? Perhaps you need reminding of this post of yours? .....

I wish you peace, love and happiness as you travel and navigate your way through life.

Above is the first and last sentence of your post. Are you familiar with the term "passive aggressive"?
I'll put your well wishes for me in the same file as mr. L's 'apology'. Ciao

Hi Helene

Sorry to make you uncomfortable with my observations. However, refusing to address the facts of your false statement and hypocrisy, only amplifies the issues. Perhaps you should consider using well-reasoned arguments rather than ad hominem attacks??

If you think I am wrong, then its sensible that you should state why. Identifying errors in reasoning is quite appropriate. Ad hominem attacks are not.

Wish you the best!

Below is the rest of my post.


https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1150725

Oh, quit flattering yourself. You are the one that declared somewhere above that you wanted nothing to do with me, I wasn't a nice person this and that, remember? So why can't you stick to your guns? you can't because in my opinion you're so bloody hostile but you think no one sees through it because of your coating of syrupy sweet well wishing bs that you attach to it.

So since you can't leave it alone I'll go one more time. You seem to admire these Intel disinformation agents (posing as teachers) that are now sprinkled throughout our university system teaching Whiteness = Badness. You seem to admire them and then want me to insult myself by getting sucked into their racist minutiae that they are indoctrinating our young people with. I see an effort to make disparaging my race, trivializing our lives, encouraging demeaning and possibly violence against us - to make it - Normal. We're supposed to accept this trend as normal or justified. I believe these are paid Intel agents. I believe it is part of the cultural genocide of my race by the elites of my race as part of a larger plan. That is my belief. You don't have to share it.

Once I saw what you valued I stopped caring what you have to say. I never addressed you personally after that. You said you wouldn't address me. But here you are back trying to bait me. In 'real life' I wouldn't voluntarily engage with someone like you so why should I do it here in virtual life? I think it's better for the forum if someone makes it clear they don't want to engage with a particular person stop keeping it up - it's like stalking.

I've asked two members who work for the forum a question regarding the Ignore button but so far no one knows the answer - I had asked if I put someone on Ignore will they get a message stating that if they were to reply to a post of mine. I know I will get a message saying so and so's message is hidden because they are on my Ignore List but will they be advised that they are on Ignore if they reply to my post? If anyone knows the answer I'd appreciate either PM'ing me or stating so. Small point but just curious on the technical.

[AutumnW]

Marique,

Turiya has provided a link to a site called Mad World. It appears to be a pretty shoddy propaganda rag. He has linked to a story on that site about a nine year old girl being raped and her mother being forced to watch.

I want to make a couple of statements here. I think you should heed what I am saying very carefully. This rape story represents a war atrocity. These kinds of acts are NOT part of the Islamic day to day reality.

Muslim women, as Flash has taken pains to point out, are not treated as equals. This is part of a medieval world view that will change over time. It sucks for now, but then we have Miley Cyrus and porn, as Flash also points out. Our society could and should be held up for scorn, on these 'merits'.

You have come to this thread, and in my opinion, come with a story you took directly from a scandal sheet style website and made it your own.

You have helped whip up an unnecessary sh** storm here among members who really are struggling to understand.

You have everybody (almost) apologizing to you now and to my mind YOU are the one who should be just as apologetic. Your statements should be carefully vetted for authenticity.

[marique3652]

Autumn, it is your option to believe or not believe me and I honor that. I have been here as long as you have and have managed to not offend anyone up to this point, but I have really done it this time. I do agree that war atrocities do happen with any war with any participants. I overgeneralized in my fearful state and for that I am sorry. Perhaps you have not read my comments where I have repeatedly apologized for my comments, there is no more that I can do. If you wish to not comment or believe anything that I share, it is certainly your option. I wish you an awesome day, and thank you for your comments. You have passed judgment on the quality of my character and have publicly insulted me and made up your mind I am a shill so that is that. It must make you feel very good passing judgment on me, showing your moral superiority over me. I commend you. It has helped me to understand how wrong it was for me to pass judgment on a whole group of people with an ideological background so foreign and frightening to me. Point taken. There is nothing I can say or do to change your opinion so I am not going to try. I can guarantee that I will never call another member a liar and a shill, I don't think it is kind. I have said I am sorry and that is all I can do.

[abmqa]

Posted by Helene West (here)

Posted by abmqa (here)

Posted by Helene West (here)

Posted by abmqa (here)

Posted by Helene West (here)
I hit the thanks button on Mr. Leahy's message only because he chose to do the right thing and take leave. His apology doesn't mean much to me as once you put a slanderous label on someone that's it, damage done.

I considered reapplying to the forum and obtain a different user name because of his targeting, which I know I wouldn't have been the first or last to do so, but his was such a common reaction to dealing with perceptions that conflict with his own and though I was bothered by his targeting but was neither 'shamed' as he flatters himself to have caused, nor bothered to that great extent, I decided to not get another user name.

Unfortunately one cannot put a mod on Ignore. As I'm as passionate in my views as he is in his, his mind-set was only going to steer him in the next inevitability - censorship.

There are cultural trends taking place in our society that are not palatable to say the least and I write my interpretations without vulgarities and without naming other board members. If I were to be censored it would be a reflection of qualities that run counter to the creation of the forum, not a reflection of wrongdoing on my part. And life goes on....

Really?? Perhaps you need reminding of this post of yours? .....

I wish you peace, love and happiness as you travel and navigate your way through life.

Above is the first and last sentence of your post. Are you familiar with the term "passive aggressive"?
I'll put your well wishes for me in the same file as mr. L's 'apology'. Ciao

Hi Helene

Sorry to make you uncomfortable with my observations. However, refusing to address the facts of your false statement and hypocrisy, only amplifies the issues. Perhaps you should consider using well-reasoned arguments rather than ad hominem attacks??

If you think I am wrong, then its sensible that you should state why. Identifying errors in reasoning is quite appropriate. Ad hominem attacks are not.

Wish you the best!

Below is the rest of my post.


https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1150725

Oh, quit flattering yourself. You are the one that declared somewhere above that you wanted nothing to do with me, I wasn't a nice person this and that, remember? So why can't you stick to your guns? you can't because in my opinion you're so bloody hostile but you think no one sees through it because of your coating of syrupy sweet well wishing bs that you attach to it.

So since you can't leave it alone I'll go one more time. You seem to admire these Intel disinformation agents (posing as teachers) that are now sprinkled throughout our university system teaching Whiteness = Badness. You seem to admire them and then want me to insult myself by getting sucked into their racist minutiae that they are indoctrinating our young people with. I see an effort to make disparaging my race, trivializing our lives, encouraging demeaning and possibly violence against us - to make it - Normal. We're supposed to accept this trend as normal or justified. I believe these are paid Intel agents. I believe it is part of the cultural genocide of my race by the elites of my race as part of a larger plan. That is my belief. You don't have to share it.

Once I saw what you valued I stopped caring what you have to say. I never addressed you personally after that. You said you wouldn't address me. But here you are back trying to bait me. In 'real life' I wouldn't voluntarily engage with someone like you so why should I do it here in virtual life? I think it's better for the forum if someone makes it clear they don't want to engage with a particular person stop keeping it up - it's like stalking.

I've asked two members who work for the forum a question regarding the Ignore button but so far no one knows the answer - I had asked if I put someone on Ignore will they get a message stating that if they were to reply to a post of mine. I know I will get a message saying so and so's message is hidden because they are on my Ignore List but will they be advised that they are on Ignore if they reply to my post? If anyone knows the answer I'd appreciate either PM'ing me or stating so. Small point but just curious on the technical.

You accuse me of being hostile? This is just more hypocrisy and ad hominem attacks?

Your own words condemn you. Instead of being angry at me. Perhaps you should try explaining the hypocrisy and falsehood that you have clearly shown in your reply to Dennis Leahy as he tried to apologize to you.

Just because we disagree doesn't entitle you or I to be discourteous to one another.

I'm not hostile to you, however you have opinions about immigration, race and bigotry that I clearly do not agree with. Although I have invited you several times to debate me on the issues.

As of yet, you have not once debated the issues, you continue to personalize and avoid the issues.

Trust me if I were to be hostile towards you, you certainly would not have to state it. It would be overwhelmingly evident. Since you did not accurately perceive the message in my previous post I will state it for you once again.

If you think I am wrong, then its sensible that you should state why. Identifying errors in reasoning is quite appropriate. Ad hominem attacks are not.

Best wishes and peace

[AutumnW]

Well done, Marique! Now explain why you personalized a story that appeared online? That is flat out dishonesty and you are dancing all around it while appealing to 'higher values' and the sympathy of onlookers.

[TargeT]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Well done, Marique! Now explain why you personalized a story that appeared online? That is flat out dishonesty and you are dancing all around it while appealing to 'higher values' and the sympathy of onlookers.

Can you explain that more?

are you saying her sons didn't die?

I'm certain the vibe I'm getting from your posts isn't accurate......... or maybe I hope I am.

Anyway, lets get it closer to topic eh?

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
The issues are often cultural. Not always 'racial'. I'm certain of that.

I would phrase that differently.

Issues are (even racism) cultural; our environment is extremely influential (both mental and physical)... Racism is a thought construct, it is something that has to be fed mental energy to exist and it's based on our base human programming in a twisted way but is not a natural phenomenon.

Understanding this is important because it starts us on the path to correcting the issue, not just writing people off as "racist".

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
the locals are gradually, slowly, becoming fearful of the future, and resentful of the invaders which they, personally, never invited. They feel they have no control.

This is the case where I live as well, tourists are targeted for crime because the local culture sees them as invaders and it's more acceptable to "steal" or "take advantage" of them because of it....

A lot of the (white) locals have fallen into the "everything's racist trap"... I hear stories about DWW (driving while white), and a lot of other descriptions I've heard before (but not with "white" mixed in). And with those comments lead to "anger" based responses, not understanding of the actual situation. I imagine this influences the social interactions with the native population, which gives both parties a bad interaction which can feed right back into the "racist" meme.

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
It's all about cultural heritage, sovereignty, territory, respect — or the lack of it. And integration, or the lack of that.

This is the crux of it in my mind, what it all comes down to, and the burden is on the outsider (in my mind).

Posted by Ewan (here)
I believe Bill is 100% correct that these issues are cultural and not about race.

And in saying that, we are still acknowledging there is an issue there.. but clarity is very important "racist" is a crappy, lazy-thinking, shortcut label that lends nothing to assist the issues at hand. That label does not lead to useful thought patterns.

Posted by Ewan (here)
I can think of no better way to ensure permanent strife and chaos than to force different cultures into close proximity and then constantly report every negative world event emphasising race, religion of culture at every opportunity.

pushing the divide further and further, exactly.

[Innocent Warrior]

Deep breaths! You have the option of private message if you wish to continue personal discussions.

[abmqa]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Well done, Marique! Now explain why you personalized a story that appeared online? That is flat out dishonesty and you are dancing all around it while appealing to 'higher values' and the sympathy of onlookers.

Hi Autumn,

I've seen Marique apologize several times for her remarks. Whatever the reasons for them IMO is now moot. IMO, she has demonstrated strong morals and courage to have apologized in the manner that she has. Now is the time for all of us to support her as she continues to deal with the tragedies in her life.

Best regards

[Chester]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Marique,

Turiya has provided a link to a site called Mad World. It appears to be a pretty shoddy propaganda rag. He has linked to a story on that site about a nine year old girl being raped and her mother being forced to watch.

I want to make a couple of statements here. I think you should heed what I am saying very carefully. This rape story represents a war atrocity. These kinds of acts are NOT part of the Islamic day to day reality.

Muslim women, as Flash has taken pains to point out, are not treated as equals. This is part of a medieval world view that will change over time. It sucks for now, but then we have Miley Cyrus and porn, as Flash also points out. Our society could and should be held up for scorn, on these 'merits'.

You have come to this thread, and in my opinion, come with a story you took directly from a scandal sheet style website and made it your own.

You have helped whip up an unnecessary sh** storm here among members who really are struggling to understand.

You have everybody (almost) apologizing to you now and to my mind YOU are the one who should be just as apologetic. Your statements should be carefully vetted for authenticity.

and also -

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Well done, Marique! Now explain why you personalized a story that appeared online? That is flat out dishonesty and you are dancing all around it while appealing to 'higher values' and the sympathy of onlookers.

For one, I was under the impression (and I hold the belief) that Marique had formed a relationship with this individual) - there is nothing that Marique misrepresented.

I sense some naivity here. If the act occurred in the heat of war, it is still no less horrific. If the act is deemed justified by the perpetrator based on their ethnic identification that includes their religious identification where they conclude that their "God" or "religion" or "law" not only gives them the right to perform this sort of act but actually encourages it (and NO.... I am not saying that is the case with Islam as I do not know that BUT what I am saying is that this is what has been reported and thus needs further investigation...certainly a deeper look like we strive to do here on this forum)...

...and so, if there is any truth to this then what is quite commonly known is that there are indeed examples of extremist sects that arise within various cultures, which may coincidentally be represented by a majority ethnicity and/or a majority religious affiliation and where what is also very widely known (see a post I did recently covering recent terrorist attacks) where the spin masters try and point the finger at the ethnicity or religion (or any other groupification factor) in two different ways - one is to create angers at a group so that anyone in that group is automatically vilified (and which too many folks fall for) and two, where the PC police types then go after "those folks" who have done this which by default makes just another group where it is my most firm opinion all these folks have fallen into the trap where my only question is... is this just humans being human, is this humans because of their human vulnerabilities being exploited for these vulnerabilities by witting, motivated third parties or both.

No matter what "side" we might "feel" we should be on... when are we going to see that by allowing the emotions that arise from falling into this trap to prevent us from discussing these things so we can identify what's behind it all instead of simply deciding our position (where when we step back and see that either one is simply playing "their game") is right and thus the alternative position is wrong and that we are therefore "good" and the opposition is only "bad."


No one commented on my post where I identified that 85 ish percent of worldwide terrorist attacks over a short period of time were related to Jihad. And why? I bet I can guess why... is because perhaps everyone who read that either felt their finger pointing at "Islam" was justified or that the suggestion I might be making was that "here's another finger pointer that tries to make "Islam" the bad guy" and neither are why I posted that.

Why I posted that is because we need to see how things happen over long stretches of time where, in our own short lives, appear to be the cause when actually... they are only the latest tool, the latest opportunity, the latest pathway to doing what has been done as far back as our known (at the general public level) written history and that is... we, humans, have allowed exploitation of a stage of our human growth where our control of our emotions is unable to keep pace with the information processing and we all suffer from failure to recognize this. Ewan's post here touched on this but my concern was that the post suggested elimination of emotion from the human life stream as the solution... and my concern is that this is an extreme measure. Why not get on top of our emotions yet refrain from eliminating what may actually be the key component in manifestation of our reality experience?

(my response to Ewan's post here)

That is what's going on here... it isn't Islam, and/or Jihad (as interpreted by some extremists), it isn't "Mexicans" who are so morally bankrupt they flood the land of illusion known as America, the land of Opportunity while having relatives and friends who have fallen into the cartel world which reaches quite far and wide and on and on I could go with current examples which are blindfolds to the actual truth.

I had hoped that this thread could get to the heart of one particular matter which is a wonderful microcosmic example of the grand macrocosmic problem where... there is a solution to this one microcosmic example, the current US Immigration problem... and no one has the guts to come out with it... and sadly, I cannot seem to find anyone here who has the wherewithal to actually explore it.

We cannot use the excuse that "the subject is too emotional" because we created it... we all have played a role in creating it or supporting it and this applies most certainly and most specifically to the folks here in the US and then surrounding countries, but also... to all folks worldwide. When are we going to deal with it?

[AutumnW]

Rachel, I will continue this offline. Thank you. I stand by my comments.

[TargeT]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Rachel, I will continue this offline. Thank you. I stand by my comments.

your need to continue to make this public should be giving you a hint as to the source of this feeling....

[AutumnW]

Target, I will respond offline in a private post.

[Sierra]

Marique,

I admire you, truly. You listened, you heard, you understood, you apologized for coming off racist, and explained why you did so.

Kudos.

Thank you.

[AutumnW]

I guess, bottom line, I feel that we are far more of a threat to Islamic people, both here and abroad than vice versa. I am very sensitive to dishonesty used to support a point of view, in an emotionally volatile atmosphere. Witch hunt dynamics, fuelled by ratcheting, sensational stories worry me. People who are super scared worry me. They remind me of ldogs who are fear biters.

If I jumped the gun with you, Marique, I apologize. Perhaps your story mirroring something in tabloid media is pure coincidence.