Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

[AutumnW]

Posted by Sam Hunter (here)

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Marique,

Turiya has provided a link to a site called Mad World. It appears to be a pretty shoddy propaganda rag. He has linked to a story on that site about a nine year old girl being raped and her mother being forced to watch.

I want to make a couple of statements here. I think you should heed what I am saying very carefully. This rape story represents a war atrocity. These kinds of acts are NOT part of the Islamic day to day reality.

Muslim women, as Flash has taken pains to point out, are not treated as equals. This is part of a medieval world view that will change over time. It sucks for now, but then we have Miley Cyrus and porn, as Flash also points out. Our society could and should be held up for scorn, on these 'merits'.

You have come to this thread, and in my opinion, come with a story you took directly from a scandal sheet style website and made it your own.

You have helped whip up an unnecessary sh** storm here among members who really are struggling to understand.

You have everybody (almost) apologizing to you now and to my mind YOU are the one who should be just as apologetic. Your statements should be carefully vetted for authenticity.

and also -

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Well done, Marique! Now explain why you personalized a story that appeared online? That is flat out dishonesty and you are dancing all around it while appealing to 'higher values' and the sympathy of onlookers.

For one, I was under the impression (and I hold the belief) that Marique had formed a relationship with this individual) - there is nothing that Marique misrepresented.

I sense some naivity here. If the act occurred in the heat of war, it is still no less horrific. If the act is deemed justified by the perpetrator based on their ethnic identification that includes their religious identification where they conclude that their "God" or "religion" or "law" not only gives them the right to perform this sort of act but actually encourages it (and NO.... I am not saying that is the case with Islam as I do not know that BUT what I am saying is that this is what has been reported and thus needs further investigation...certainly a deeper look like we strive to do here on this forum)...

...and so, if there is any truth to this then what is quite commonly known is that there are indeed examples of extremist sects that arise within various cultures, which may coincidentally be represented by a majority ethnicity and/or a majority religious affiliation and where what is also very widely known (see a post I did recently covering recent terrorist attacks) where the spin masters try and point the finger at the ethnicity or religion (or any other groupification factor) in two different ways - one is to create angers at a group so that anyone in that group is automatically vilified (and which too many folks fall for) and two, where the PC police types then go after "those folks" who have done this which by default makes just another group where it is my most firm opinion all these folks have fallen into the trap where my only question is... is this just humans being human, is this humans because of their human vulnerabilities being exploited for these vulnerabilities by witting, motivated third parties or both.

No matter what "side" we might "feel" we should be on... when are we going to see that by allowing the emotions that arise from falling into this trap to prevent us from discussing these things so we can identify what's behind it all instead of simply deciding our position (where when we step back and see that either one is simply playing "their game") is right and thus the alternative position is wrong and that we are therefore "good" and the opposition is only "bad."


No one commented on my post where I identified that 85 ish percent of worldwide terrorist attacks over a short period of time were related to Jihad. And why? I bet I can guess why... is because perhaps everyone who read that either felt their finger pointing at "Islam" was justified or that the suggestion I might be making was that "here's another finger pointer that tries to make "Islam" the bad guy" and neither are why I posted that.

Why I posted that is because we need to see how things happen over long stretches of time where, in our own short lives, appear to be the cause when actually... they are only the latest tool, the latest opportunity, the latest pathway to doing what has been done as far back as our known (at the general public level) written history and that is... we, humans, have allowed exploitation of a stage of our human growth where our control of our emotions is unable to keep pace with the information processing and we all suffer from failure to recognize this. Ewan's post here touched on this but my concern was that the post suggested elimination of emotion from the human life stream as the solution... and my concern is that this is an extreme measure. Why not get on top of our emotions yet refrain from eliminating what may actually be the key component in manifestation of our reality experience?

(my response to Ewan's post here)

That is what's going on here... it isn't Islam, and/or Jihad (as interpreted by some extremists), it isn't "Mexicans" who are so morally bankrupt they flood the land of illusion known as America, the land of Opportunity while having relatives and friends who have fallen into the cartel world which reaches quite far and wide and on and on I could go with current examples which are blindfolds to the actual truth.

I had hoped that this thread could get to the heart of one particular matter which is a wonderful microcosmic example of the grand macrocosmic problem where... there is a solution to this one microcosmic example, the current US Immigration problem... and no one has the guts to come out with it... and sadly, I cannot seem to find anyone here who has the wherewithal to actually explore it.

We cannot use the excuse that "the subject is too emotional" because we created it... we all have played a role in creating it or supporting it and this applies most certainly and most specifically to the folks here in the US and then surrounding countries, but also... to all folks worldwide. When are we going to deal with it?

Hi Sam, I am not ignoring you, just having trouble reading your post because it isn't broken up into smaller paragraphs. I don't know why this is, but I find it almost impossible!

[Billy]

Before I retire for tonight. This thread has been brought to the attention of the mods. Emotions are heightened, I think this topic is an important debate, but finding a solution is difficult.

Can I make a suggestion ?
If we give to much attention to what separates us, we forget to recognise the beauty within us all.

Night night, Sleep tight

[turiya]

Oh, but wait... First, a bedtime story, Billy...

Top Ten Quran Verses for
Understanding ISIS (the Islamic State)
(Published on Sep 7, 2014)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=LXBgqa-xQwY

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Posted by AutumnW (here)

Muslim women, as Flash has taken pains to point out, are not treated as equals. This is part of a medieval world view that will change over time.

I wish to point out for context that Islamic civilization is not alone in this. Catholicism, Judaism, and Buddhism have only made progress on this recently. And they have more progress yet to make. Yes, there are degrees of inequality, but on a civilization-level analysis, we might be more productive if we avoid judgmentalism while we work towards solutions.

[turiya]

Quran Verses that Every Woman should know....

Three Quran Verses Every Woman Should Know
(David Wood)
(Published on May 4, 2016)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=5NXtIUv5i2w

[Chester]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Hi Sam, I am not ignoring you, just having trouble reading your post because it isn't broken up into smaller paragraphs. I don't know why this is, but I find it almost impossible!

My problem is that sometimes my sentences, alone, are monsters in and of themselves.

Anyways... the last thing I hoped would occur is what seems to have happened more than once in this thread. I am just too... too "idealistic" to think... I guess to think that we could explore solutions which would perhaps also include identifying attitudes within ourselves which, if we can see we are expressing those attitudes in ways that only throw gas on the fire, we might instead see that each of us might look deeper not just within but with regards to the games we allow ourselves to play/get sucked into... Maybe the thread should just get closed. I won't mind what call is made but I will be sad and thus regret we couldn't do better.

[Tangri]

Posted by Billy (here)
Before I retire for tonight. This thread has been brought to the attention of the mods. Emotions are heightened, I think this topic is an important debate, but finding a solution is difficult.

Can I make a suggestion ?
If we give to much attention to what separates us, we forget to recognise the beauty within us all.

Night night, Sleep tight

"but finding a solution is difficult."

Actually it is not that difficult.
First
Fact -check; the title of the thread Trump - Illegal immigration.

Facts;
There were 11 million unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. in 2015, a small but statistically significant decline from the Center’s estimate of 11.3 million for 2009.

The Center’s preliminary estimate of the unauthorized immigrant population in 2016 is 11.3 million, which is statistically no different from the 2009 or 2015 estimates because it is based on a data source with a smaller sample size and larger margin of error. Unauthorized immigrants represented 3.4% of the total U.S. population in 2015. The number of unauthorized immigrants peaked in 2007 at 12.2 million, when this group was 4% of the U.S. population.

Mexicans made up half of all unauthorized immigrants in 2016, according to the Center’s preliminary estimate, marking the first time in at least a decade that they did not account for a clear majority of this population. Their numbers (and share of the total) have been declining in recent years: There were 5.6 million Mexican unauthorized immigrants living in the U.S. in 2015 and 2016, down from 6.4 million in 2009.

Trump's concern is Hispanic migration to the American soil ( Six states account for 59% of unauthorized immigrants: California, Texas, Florida, New York, New Jersey and Illinois) They come and make 10-11 children which those automatically become 1st generation Americans.

Some people are trying hard to pull this fact to the religious war. I can understand Hispanic people's pain which comes with their parent's sufferings but they pursued maintaining stay away from the fact and targeting legal immigrants of different religious. Am I the only one, seeing this discrepancy? Insisting on this, goes to diagnosed deliberate ignorance

Seeing this, can help to find a solution.

I don't want to show links to prove Hispanic people's suffering from drug- gun lords or economical needs which force them into migrate to another country and building new crime gangs at the new placement. Every body suffers when they moved to live in another country. I do not hate all Americans soldiers whom some of them killed 1 million afghans, several millions at Iraq , Libya, Syria and force them to be relocated at different countries. I do not want to talk about my evil Hispanic business partner's evil doings.
Because my pain (my personal bad experiences- memories)is not related to the illegal immigration, generalization does not relief my pain and I do not perform it.

[marique3652]

Posted by Sierra (here)
Marique,

I admire you, truly. You listened, you heard, you understood, you apologized for coming off racist, and explained why you did so.

Kudos.

Thank you.

Thank you Sierra for your kindness.

[Ewan]

Posted by Sam Hunter (here)

Why I posted that is because we need to see how things happen over long stretches of time where, in our own short lives, appear to be the cause when actually... they are only the latest tool, the latest opportunity, the latest pathway to doing what has been done as far back as our known (at the general public level) written history and that is... we, humans, have allowed exploitation of a stage of our human growth where our control of our emotions is unable to keep pace with the information processing and we all suffer from failure to recognize this. Ewan's post here touched on this but my concern was that the post suggested elimination of emotion from the human life stream as the solution... and my concern is that this is an extreme measure. Why not get on top of our emotions yet refrain from eliminating what may actually be the key component in manifestation of our reality experience?

(my response to Ewan's post here)

That is what's going on here... it isn't Islam, and/or Jihad (as interpreted by some extremists), it isn't "Mexicans" who are so morally bankrupt they flood the land of illusion known as America, the land of Opportunity while having relatives and friends who have fallen into the cartel world which reaches quite far and wide and on and on I could go with current examples which are blindfolds to the actual truth.

I had hoped that this thread could get to the heart of one particular matter which is a wonderful microcosmic example of the grand macrocosmic problem where... there is a solution to this one microcosmic example, the current US Immigration problem... and no one has the guts to come out with it... and sadly, I cannot seem to find anyone here who has the wherewithal to actually explore it.

We cannot use the excuse that "the subject is too emotional" because we created it... we all have played a role in creating it or supporting it and this applies most certainly and most specifically to the folks here in the US and then surrounding countries, but also... to all folks worldwide. When are we going to deal with it?

Definitely not Sam, my intention had been to show that the Vulcans went too far and destroyed what could have proved a valuable ally. On the other hand Humans had no ally either because as often as not the 'horses' broke free and did as they pleased - leaving the human with a bit of a mess to sort out.

[Flash]

Listen to this Christian witness

She is 100% right, not exagerating at all, none - she is truthful and explains very well what Islam aims are and how they proceed. THIS IS WHAT IT IS, NO EXAGERATION.

she gives you the history of Islam and Mohammed, which is what is written and what is followed by ISIS and others.

She is right, lots of countries in the Middle East where Christian 60 years ago and are now Muslim, namely Lebanon, Syria (was half Christian, they are all being killed and raped right now), Egypt much more (now 10 millions christians, they were half the population previously), etc.

I am white, blond and a target - I have been told by Arabs here in Canada, that they would marry us, rape us, to make sure we do not have white christian babies but Muslim ones, and they would marry their 4 wifes to make sure they make children and overwhelm us given time. Some are open about it and spit it in our face openly (like the man in the food store who told everyone is was allowed 4 women and would just do it, despite our laws).

This is literally happening in France Marseille, a large city in southern France is now Muslim, Paris is going towards it within 20 years,

WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND, CHRISTIANS AND JEWS

My problem is not the religion itself, they could be Buddhist or whatever, the problem is the belief system and the crusade (jihad) and violence that comes with it. This is a very regressive and restrictive religion.

They were chased away from Austria a century ago and had conquest all of Eastern Europe, and were pushed back. The lesson, we invade from the inside by migrating and making children and imposing our beliefs.

Europ

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=-EbC4fowprY

Whatever they say has a double meaning - always, they are allowed to lie for jihad and it is part of the religious culture.

Some good Muslim explained it all to me (in My city, there is many Muslims), they told me never to trust.

[Chester]

Posted by Ewan (here)

Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
Ewan's post here touched on this but my concern was that the post suggested elimination of emotion from the human life stream as the solution... and my concern is that this is an extreme measure. Why not get on top of our emotions yet refrain from eliminating what may actually be the key component in manifestation of our reality experience?

(my response to Ewan's post here)

Definitely not Sam, my intention had been to show that the Vulcans went too far and destroyed what could have proved a valuable ally. On the other hand Humans had no ally either because as often as not the 'horses' broke free and did as they pleased - leaving the human with a bit of a mess to sort out.

Hi Ewan, true apologies for my misinterpretation of the intent of that post of yours.

I went back and read it a few times. I have become keenly aware that just as much as folks might say something they mean and then later may back off, that a reader can just as easily read something with a preconditioned bias where they interpret a communication to mean something significantly differently than what was meant by the communicator.

Again, if this is the case here and you are saying it is, I truly apologize.

Also, note that I responded to that post in depth just a few posts later which revealed my interpretation, but I have to assume that you missed this or that you maybe had no response or desire to respond. So this was perhaps another error of mine to interpret that to support my original interpretation further.

This is another example of how writing, especially on a forum, as a sole means for communication, can often fail in its goal to communicate.


Soooo... if what you were saying and/or suggesting is that, in general, humans need to get far, far better at managing their emotions... yet that emotions should not be atrophied, then we are in complete agreement. Last and third time - apologies.

[turiya]

Posted by Flash (here)
Listen to this Christian witness

She is 100% right, not exagerating at all, none - she is truthful and explains very well what Islam aims are and how they proceed. THIS IS WHAT IT IS, NO EXAGERATION.

she gives you the history of Islam and Mohammed, which is what is written and what is followed by ISIS and others.

She is right, lots of countries in the Middle East where Christian 60 years ago and are now Muslim, namely Lebanon, Syria (was half Christian, they are all being killed and raped right now), Egypt much more (now 10 millions christians, they were half the population previously), etc.

I am white, blond and a target - I have been told by Arabs here in Canada, that they would marry us, rape us, to make sure we do not have white christian babies but Muslim ones, and they would marry their 4 wifes to make sure they make children and overwhelm us given time. Some are open about it and spit it in our face openly (like the man in the food store who told everyone is was allowed 4 women and would just do it, despite our laws).

This is literally happening in France Marseille, a large city in southern France is now Muslim, Paris is going towards it within 20 years,

WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND, CHRISTIANS AND JEWS

My problem is not the religion itself, they could be Buddhist or whatever, the problem is the belief system and the crusade (jihad) and violence that comes with it. This is a very regressive and restrictive religion.

They were chased away from Austria a century ago and had conquest all of Eastern Europe, and were pushed back. The lesson, we invade from the inside by migrating and making children and imposing our beliefs.

Europ

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=-EbC4fowprY

Whatever they say has a double meaning - always, they are allowed to lie for jihad and it is part of the religious culture.

Some good Muslim explained it all to me (in My city, there is many Muslims), they told me never to trust.

Thanks Flash, for posting this. I see you picked this up from my "off topic" thread "The Turiya File". . I uploaded it to youtube late yesterday. I was planning on posting it here on this thread, but thought it would be better to wait a bit, until the heat of the thread cooled down some. It's also probably better that someone else posted this video, as some may not think it appropriate for me to keep on posting so much of what Islam is truly all about.

Again, thanks for taking the lead on this one...

Scholar David Wood also has many videos whereupon he brings out much of what the so-called Islamic faith holds to be true. Here's one where he explains about the practice of circumcision - cutting of the genitalia both for men & women... not a pleasant topic, but still better to come to grips with the reality of it, than not...

Linda Sarsour Caught Lying about
Female Genital Mutilation in Islam
(Published on Apr 25, 2017)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=qle_4qiH4tU

[Hervé]

Here is a Saker's introduction to an article he published a while back and I recommend reading as it is very comprehensive and accurate:

After the Prophet


Foreword by the Saker: It is a real pleasure for me to submit to you a most interesting article about the history of Islam in general, and about a form of Sunni Islam in Saudi Arabia which is rarely discussed or even mentioned. Being a Christian myself, I take no position on any of the view presented in this article other than welcoming an informed discussion. What I am absolutely sure of, however, is that the AngloZionists are deliberately trying to create a “clash of civilizations” and that they are trying to present Islam as a monolithic threat to “the western world”, the “Christian West”, “freedom and democracy”, etc. etc. etc. Oh sure, there is a very real threat out there: the type of Wahabi Takfirism which Daesh embodies nowadays. But Daesh is, first and foremost, a mortal threat to all other forms of Islam and this is why treating all of Islam as a monolithic threat is just about the dumbest thing we – westerners or Christians – could do. Intelligent choices can only come from a good understanding of the nature of the reality surrounding us. This is why understanding Islam as much as we can ought to be a goal for each one of us. I am deeply grateful to Hamza Haidar for allowing us a glimpsed into a world that most of us know little about.
The Saker

Full article here: http://thesaker.is/after-the-prophet/

============================================

I also posted another article (here) which documents that the most widely published and available version of the Quran is the one financed by Saudi Arabia's Wahhabis.

Another brew which came out of that general geographic area concerns that "'Old' Testament" which is now being demonstrated as having been concocted out of a plan designed by Plato... so much for the "'Word' of God"... which "Plan" Constantine followed the blue print of, to a T.

[Ewan]

Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
Soooo... if what you were saying and/or suggesting is that, in general, humans need to get far, far better at managing their emotions... yet that emotions should not be atrophied, then we are in complete agreement. Last and third time - apologies.

We are in complete agreement Sam.

I suspect that without emotion you would be unable to experience empathy, so it is a very important human attribute. Conversely if emotion overpowers us as individuals then reason and logic are abandoned, frequently bringing out the worst of us.

[turiya]

From the article, After the Prophet by Hamza Haidar:

Hamza Haidar wrote:

...I started researching what happened after the Prophet departed from this world. I came to the conclusion, which to me seemed as clear as the sun, that the Muslim world and the organized Religion must have been hijacked after the Prophet.

The title of the article, After the Prophet, is the lead into the problem... Because this happens with all the so-called "established" religions.

All these so-called 'religions' have been hijacked - All of them! It always happens after the 'enlightened' individual has departed from the scene of this world. Then come in all the opportunists - the priests, imams, popes, the scholars, the intellectuals, the controllers - those that want to control other people, etc., etc., - and they hijack what the enlightened ones have left behind. And, all that is left behind are the words that have been recorded by the unenlightened followers who then confiscate whatever they possibly can.

The religion is alive when the enlightened individual is alive, speaking - drawing & attracting others that desire to be around this individual. The religion dies when the enlightened individual dies. Then it is picked up by the vulture opportunists and turn it into a so-called "established" religion... To which then it becomes a "for profit" business (pun not intended), and a useful tool used for political means.

Posted by Hervé (here)
Here is a Saker's introduction to an article he published a while back and I recommend reading as it is very comprehensive and accurate:

After the Prophet


Foreword by the Saker: It is a real pleasure for me to submit to you a most interesting article about the history of Islam in general, and about a form of Sunni Islam in Saudi Arabia which is rarely discussed or even mentioned. Being a Christian myself, I take no position on any of the view presented in this article other than welcoming an informed discussion. What I am absolutely sure of, however, is that the AngloZionists are deliberately trying to create a “clash of civilizations” and that they are trying to present Islam as a monolithic threat to “the western world”, the “Christian West”, “freedom and democracy”, etc. etc. etc. Oh sure, there is a very real threat out there: the type of Wahabi Takfirism which Daesh embodies nowadays. But Daesh is, first and foremost, a mortal threat to all other forms of Islam and this is why treating all of Islam as a monolithic threat is just about the dumbest thing we – westerners or Christians – could do. Intelligent choices can only come from a good understanding of the nature of the reality surrounding us. This is why understanding Islam as much as we can ought to be a goal for each one of us. I am deeply grateful to Hamza Haidar for allowing us a glimpsed into a world that most of us know little about.
The Saker

Full article here: http://thesaker.is/after-the-prophet/

============================================

I also posted another article (here) which documents that the most widely published and available version of the Quran is the one financed by Saudi Arabia's Wahhabis.

Another brew which came out of that general geographic area concerns that "'Old' Testament" which is now being demonstrated as having been concocted out of a plan designed by Plato... so much for the "'Word' of God"... which "Plan" Constantine followed the blue print of, to a T.

[Helene West]

Though I do see Islam as a very real threat to western life I agree with Saker that to see it as one large monolithic bogeyman is ridiculous as those who want us terrified of islam go out of their way to people western countries with muslims at the very same time they are frightening us. Here in the U.S. we have the Gulen school movement controversy and obama administration's quiet attempts to encourage supposed commonalities between muslims and american indians particularly for muslims to study american indian tribal governments so they also can formulate autonomy from american law. I won't even touch poor Europe, that deserves it's own thread.

But the continuing saga - create a conflict with two sides, fund both sides, create rubble from the conflict and fashion what you want from the rubble. That is the old, tired meme of our western ruling class. And that's only the main meme, they have their 'tributary' memes. Each time we think we get hip to their game we find another sophisticated twist like a hero is really a proponent or legislation we wanted passed has embedded in it hurtful legislation unbeknownst to us at the time and on and on.

[Foxie Loxie]

My question? How does one wake up an entire world that the Jesus Movement was ALSO hijacked & made into another "controlling" institution?

[AutumnW]

Posted by Helene West (here)
Though I do see Islam as a very real threat to western life I agree with Saker that to see it as one large monolithic bogeyman is ridiculous as those who want us terrified of islam go out of their way to people western countries with muslims at the very same time they are frightening us. Here in the U.S. we have the Gulen school movement controversy and obama administration's quiet attempts to encourage supposed commonalities between muslims and american indians particularly for muslims to study american indian tribal governments so they also can formulate autonomy from american law. I won't even touch poor Europe, that deserves it's own thread.

But the continuing saga - create a conflict with two sides, fund both sides, create rubble from the conflict and fashion what you want from the rubble. That is the old, tired meme of our western ruling class. And that's only the main meme, they have their 'tributary' memes. Each time we think we get hip to their game we find another sophisticated twist like a hero is really a proponent or legislation we wanted passed has embedded in it hurtful legislation unbeknownst to us at the time and on and on.

Helene, I would like to see reliable supporting links to the supposed effort of the government to encourage Muslims to form autonomous legal entities. This strikes me as a misinterpretation, or bogus info.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by Foxie Loxie (here)
My question? How does one wake up an entire world that the Jesus Movement was ALSO hijacked & made into another "controlling" institution?

No kidding!

[Helene West]

Posted by AutumnW (here)

Posted by Helene West (here)
Though I do see Islam as a very real threat to western life I agree with Saker that to see it as one large monolithic bogeyman is ridiculous as those who want us terrified of islam go out of their way to people western countries with muslims at the very same time they are frightening us. Here in the U.S. we have the Gulen school movement controversy and obama administration's quiet attempts to encourage supposed commonalities between muslims and american indians particularly for muslims to study american indian tribal governments so they also can formulate autonomy from american law. I won't even touch poor Europe, that deserves it's own thread.

But the continuing saga - create a conflict with two sides, fund both sides, create rubble from the conflict and fashion what you want from the rubble. That is the old, tired meme of our western ruling class. And that's only the main meme, they have their 'tributary' memes. Each time we think we get hip to their game we find another sophisticated twist like a hero is really a proponent or legislation we wanted passed has embedded in it hurtful legislation unbeknownst to us at the time and on and on.

Helene, I would like to see reliable supporting links to the supposed effort of the government to encourage Muslims to form autonomous legal entities. This strikes me as a misinterpretation, or bogus info.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by Foxie Loxie (here)
My question? How does one wake up an entire world that the Jesus Movement was ALSO hijacked & made into another "controlling" institution?

No kidding!

I'm sure you would.
As I'm not a computer and can't bookmark everything to memory of what I read I don't always have a dissertation ready for the judges of the forum every time I write a point. you also have the option of researching something yourself that piques your interest or annoys you.
I'm reading now two books by an american indian activist that I hope to post on. She is the one who turned me on to this aspect, not a dream I had. As I work over 50 hrs it will take me awhile but it is definitely on my list because it is an aspect of the destruction of my country which saddens me.

[AutumnW]

Helene, it is really important to back up extraordinary claims with something. Your last post leaves the impression that the U.S. will eventually have a separate Sharia law state within a state that the government has encouraged. You may have read this somewhere and don't have the time or energy to support it, but the onus really is on you to provide something more than, "a friend told me," or "I read it somewhere."

If it is your opinion that this will happen, state it clearly as such, not as a matter of fact.