Modern Vehicles and the EMP.

[TWINNICK]

With all the computer chips (ECU's) in all modern vehicles these days, are they at risk of failing if an EMP strikes.

I think this is a definite possibility, I have read things over the years and heard radio interviews about it.

We may take it for granted that we just jump in our car's and tootle off to were ever with out a though of this particular real threat.

If the sun does spit a big enough CME at the precise direction of Earth and our cars and all other associated equipment goes down,it will be mayhem.

Unless you have a large shed which might act as a shield, some say even a carport might do the job we will all be walking, or you could have a pre 1980's vehicle which does not have ECU's and high tech equiped sensors.

What do you think people, have you put much thought into it ?

..Nick..

[Ron Mauer Sr]

If an EMP event does occur and disables vehicles, having a pre-80s vehicle may not do much good.

For example:

• Where would you go?
• What kind of attention would you attract with the only vehicle on the road?
• Could you purchase fuel? A wood-gas generator may help here.
• Food would not be delivered to the grocery stores if the delivery trucks were not working.

Any semiconductor device would be non-working if the EMP were strong. That includes power inverters used in solar electric systems.
We would be needing local food sources within walking distance, wood stoves, root cellars and well buckets to survive.
Bicycles would be in high demand until the system could be rebuilt.

Reconstruction would need to start from some place on the planet that did not take a direct hit from an EMP.

[jorr lundstrom]

Sh.t happens

[Ides315]

Hmmm,

From what I have read you would need to go to a pre-computer diesel (mechanical or no fuel injection). They actually require NO electricty to run. Seems depending on strength there is a lot of little stuff to fry in the ignition/charging system of a gasoline vehicle, even before they became computer controlled. The plus side is they are fairly well shielded (later vehicles), so it would take a larger event to take down your vehicle. At which point "where would you go?" becomes very pertinent.

From a full on survivlist side, the diesel is the way to go as you can "grow" your fuel (vege oil of different types) if you have the right setup. Alchohol is an option (and fairly easy conversion to a gasoline motor), better choice of what to make it from, but more complicated to "extract" from the raw materials.

A friend who was involved with the Military supply vehicles said those motors could run just about anything (gasoline, kerosine, diesel, etc.) with some fairly easy changes. Not sure if they are ending up in "Army Surplus" or not though. Would be a BIG truck.......

[Lord Sidious]

From what I recall, EMP will attack anything that has the ability to conduct current.
That is a lot of things in a vehicle.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
From what I recall, EMP will attack anything that has the ability to conduct current.
That is a lot of things in a vehicle.

I would at a minimum modify that to state: EMP will attack anything that has the ability to conduct current, and that would be harmed by an excess of current.

The metal frame and engine block on a 1930's tractor can sure enough conduct current, but could likely survive a direct hit of lightning without failure.

===

However I'm figuring that the damage caused by EMP will be even more restrictive than this. I'm figuring that it will take a decent antenna to pull in enough current to cause much harm, except perhaps fairly close to "ground zero". Possible antennas include network and power cables, as well as radio and cell phone receivers.

I keep one or two older computers disconnected from power and other cables. I fully expect they will work after an EMP, though I might not be able to test that theory, if my electricity is out and the Internet is down in general.

I rather expect most cars not near ground zero will work, except perhaps for their radios. They tend to have fairly robust electronics, be metal shrouded and not be connected to any long wires.

===

My biggest concern regarding an EMP attack would be the prolonged and systemic failure of our electrical grid. There are a lot of long wires in that system, and we depend greatly on it more or less functioning.

[sjkted]

If an EMP event does occur and disables vehicles, having a pre-80s vehicle may not do much good.

For example:

* Where would you go?
* What kind of attention would you attract with the only vehicle on the road?
* Could you purchase fuel? A wood-gas generator may help here.
* Food would not be delivered to the grocery stores if the delivery trucks were not working.

As someone who drives a early '80s vehicle daily, I'll answer:

- pretty much anywhere I want. With both my onboard fuel tanks, I can drive about 1000 miles (35 gallon tanks @ 30 miles per gallon). If I choose to carry extra fuel in the trunk, I could go even further.
- Don't know. Don't care.
- Maybe, maybe not. But, my vehicle runs on waste vegetable oil and I'm sure someone will have it as it is a waste product. In a pinch, I can also run the vehicle on used oil, transmission fluid, kerosene, and a bunch of other fuel sources.
- True, but not sure it's relevant.

I'm not sure where you are going with this. I'll still be able to get from point A to point B, even if point B is quite a long distance away. This is the point of transportation.

--sjkted

[TWINNICK]

G'day, very valid points by all and I thank you for your replies.
Being the only working vehicle WILL attract attention and most likely the WRONG kind.
Bio fuel vehicle is great do you have a Pantone reactor ? (Geet reactor)
I am not sure but a vehicle with points and mechanical dizzy may still work (we will see)
My father told me they used gas producers (home made) on there cars during ww2 run on cow poop!

The military has done extensive testing on there equipment, some of, if not all important vehicles would be EMP shielded.
An old shipping container could be better insulated and used as a faraday cage.
But I will be keeping my push bike close (LOL)

I have a diesel 4wd but it was made in 2006 and is chockers with electronic sensors.

Sorry to bunch all this up into one reply but I am falling asleep as I type this. time to go catch some zzzzzzz.

see you good people on the morrow !

..Nick..

[wolf_rt]

I have no direct evidance, but i would suspect the Coil and Condenser(capacator attached to the side of the distributor) may be affected even in a pre efi car.. these are definatly the only components that may have to be replaced. also check that the car has points, not electronicaly switched ignition. I imaging that if you wrapped a spare coil/condenser in copper/lead and buried it there is a good chance it would survive.
when repairing burnt out electrics remember that most coils(usually stamped with a 'R' somewhere) only run on 7 Volts if connected directly to the battery they will burn out (and you wasted your time burying it and whatnot) often there is a white ceramic resistor near the coil that performs the reduction, other times it is handled in the dash (if your car doesnt have one near the coil, get one with your spare parts, or use a 12V coil.)

EDIT: i just realised.. if the coil goes the alternator will also.. if the battery doesnt charge, it will only provide spark for 8 hours or so provided the EMP doesnt damage the battery.... so bury an alternator too???(check the voltage regulator is on the back of your alternator, not seperate on the guard or something)
If a EMP event took place on a wide scale that could fry an alternator??? That would be really S#*T
perhaps some varnish suitable for re-winding motors/generators would be handy to have in the kit...
Im not sure how Magneto type systems would fair, will have to look it up.

As stated mechanical injection desels are fine, perhaps keep a can of ether handy to aid starting with no starter motor or glowplugs. (will need to be manual) diesels with inline mehanical pumps (rather than rotary) are better for running on bio/poor fuel
Indeed there are old 45 series landcruisers here in QLD running on (light)crude oil direct from the ground.

It is fairly easy to convert a carburettor car to run on alcohol, you will need to remove the main jets fron the carburettor(a fixed metering Holley style carb is easiest) and ream them out to near double the size. (trial and um..more trial req here) the ignition timing will also have to be adjusted to make the vehicle driveable.

modern vehicles are unable to be diagnosed and repaired even by qualified ppl with the corect computer equiptment. Do not trust your life to a modern computerised vehicle. (even new diesel landcruisers are now chipped and it will not be possible to jury rig them to run)

it is quite possible to convert internal combustion engines to steam from a variety of fuels (wood, alcohol,anything that will burn) to great effect.. Average welding/fabrication skills are required. modern cars with a standard manual gearbox could be used, once all the plastic is taken off..lol

Edit: Something i just thaught of most if not all small engines these days use transisterised ignition modules..generators,small pump motors ect.. WILL NOT RUN afaik. the ignition modules seem quite delicate.

[TWINNICK]

Posted by wolf_rt (here)
I have no direct evidance, but i would suspect the Coil and Condenser(capacator attached to the side of the distributor) may be affected even in a pre efi car.. these are definatly the only components that may have to be replaced. also check that the car has points, not electronicaly switched ignition. I imaging that if you wrapped a spare coil/condenser in copper/lead and buried it there is a good chance it would survive.
when repairing burnt out electrics remember that most coils(usually stamped with a 'R' somewhere) only run on 7 Volts if connected directly to the battery they will burn out (and you wasted your time burying it and whatnot) often there is a white ceramic resistor near the coil that performs the reduction, other times it is handled in the dash (if your car doesnt have one near the coil, get one with your spare parts, or use a 12V coil.)

EDIT: i just realised.. if the coil goes the alternator will also.. if the battery doesnt charge, it will only provide spark for 8 hours or so provided the EMP doesnt damage the battery.... so bury an alternator too???(check the voltage regulator is on the back of your alternator, not seperate on the guard or something)
If a EMP event took place on a wide scale that could fry an alternator??? That would be really S#*T
perhaps some varnish suitable for re-winding motors/generators would be handy to have in the kit...
Im not sure how Magneto type systems would fair, will have to look it up.

As stated mechanical injection desels are fine, perhaps keep a can of ether handy to aid starting with no starter motor or glowplugs. (will need to be manual) diesels with inline mehanical pumps (rather than rotary) are better for running on bio/poor fuel
Indeed there are old 45 series landcruisers here in QLD running on (light)crude oil direct from the ground.

It is fairly easy to convert a carburettor car to run on alcohol, you will need to remove the main jets fron the carburettor(a fixed metering Holley style carb is easiest) and ream them out to near double the size. (trial and um..more trial req here) the ignition timing will also have to be adjusted to make the vehicle driveable.

modern vehicles are unable to be diagnosed and repaired even by qualified ppl with the corect computer equiptment. Do not trust your life to a modern computerised vehicle. (even new diesel landcruisers are now chipped and it will not be possible to jury rig them to run)

it is quite possible to convert internal combustion engines to steam from a variety of fuels (wood, alcohol,anything that will burn) to great effect.. Average welding/fabrication skills are required. modern cars with a standard manual gearbox could be used, once all the plastic is taken off..lol

Edit: Something i just thaught of most if not all small engines these days use transisterised ignition modules..generators,small pump motors ect.. WILL NOT RUN afaik. the ignition modules seem quite delicate.

G'day, yes this is true, I agree with you I think the ptw have seen to all of this transisterized everything over the years to stuff us up, they knew what they were planning.

You could try and keep some spares insulated inside a large tool box or esky, (metal) wrapped in cloth or something.

No I won't be relying on my modern 4wd unfortunately and yes I have heard of the old 45's running on bio , I think John Ruth and his beloved MILO from 4+4 Australia had done a story on it ages ago.

We might all be walking or running to the nearest safe place when the sun does its thing, although I plan to get out of the city long before this if I can.

Thats why I'm trying to find out as much as I can about world events and this Charles stuff (maybe true, maybe not ?) or incoming war ( false flag) so I can make an informed decision,.
Maybe I should trade in my bus for an old 45 landy and check over it, tidy it up and see how I go.

..Nick..

[sjkted]

If you have an older diesel, it can run without an alternator. Of course, there will be no electronics in the car and the battery won't charge. But, the battery could be charged with another method such as solar or a battery charger running from a generator. One could take a battery out of the one of many cars that will probably never start up again...

From all of the research I've done on EMPs, it indicates that only ICs (Integrated Circuits) would be affected. What makes you think a coil would be damaged?

--sjkted

[Koyaanisqatsi]

My research has led me to believe that we will be shielded (at least partially) over the next few years from solar flares (make no mistake, they are coming) that could essentially cause massive emps. Not globally, however.I do believe most 1st world nations may maintain electricity due to the earth's sun screen provided by 30+ years of UV reflective and atmospherically buoyant metals currently floating under our ionosphere (maybe the CTs weren't meant strictly for weather manipulation). It's on your skin right now in the form of titanium dioxide (check the ingredients on your bar of soap, go ahead) and may prevent harmful, cancer causing radiation from our violent sun...... I don't know all this to be true, but it's currently my working hypothesis. Buy a bike and get in shape- you'll be ok

[wolf_rt]

Posted by sjkted (here)
If you have an older diesel, it can run without an alternator. Of course, there will be no electronics in the car and the battery won't charge. But, the battery could be charged with another method such as solar or a battery charger running from a generator. One could take a battery out of the one of many cars that will probably never start up again...

From all of the research I've done on EMPs, it indicates that only ICs (Integrated Circuits) would be affected. What makes you think a coil would be damaged?

--sjkted

Im no EM expert but a coil works on EM fields, and can burn out under regular use..seems like a big EMP could burn the windings....
ive done exactly NO research on this... i sure hope your right.

hmm, just thaught... i believe that the voltage rectifier/regulator on the back of an alternator WOULD be susceptable to EMP.

Had a quick google.. seems that ANYTHING made of metal would be affected.. If the EMP was strong enough your entire car could MELT!!! lol..
Seems like the order of things affected would be something like:
HDD's and magnetic tape.
IC's
Anything connected to a wall socket and hence the power lines.
Diodes. Transistors ect.
Valves.
(Could be wrong here but it seems that any 'coil' designed to induce a EM field would be vunrable) so:
Car coils, speakers, generators, alternators, inductors, motors, solenoids, ect....

[panopticon]

G'day,

So this means that an off the grid solar system running into a battery bank would be susceptible to an EMP not only through the panels acting as collectors but also as the regulator and inverter etc would no longer be viable. Not only that but the battery bank would no longer be viable.
Any knowledge here as to whether the batteries would explode in an EMP event?

Regards,
Panopticon

[TWINNICK]

G'day.
From my research although a while back class x solar flare, C.M.E would travel through any piping. This means metal gas lines, water pipes, ground earths (House), vehicles, and anything metal, underground or on top of it.

I listened to a Dr Bill Deagle radio interview last year, I'm sure if you went to his site you would be able to find it, ( clay and iron) search emp interview.


It was pretty damn full on about what we will have to deal with, there is no escaping any of it unless you are prepared to go 8-12 feet underground in dirt or concrete topped structure. A cave in the hills would be a good starting place or even a road water culvert made of concrete, all our cars will be out of action as will all electronics, its back to basics I'm afraid.

I think brushing up on hunting skills and food collection is a good idea, don't rely on having any help from the govn't they will be all tucked away in there cosy D.U.M.B's.

I know this sounds extreme but if you do your research and prepare for the worst and it does happen ( and I do believe it will) you will have a better chance at surviving it.

Even if it is a small EMP it may disrupt a lot of earths systems that we take for granted, people will be walking around in circles not knowing what to do ( not Avalonians, because we are preped).

The cities are not a good place to be as far as I'm concerned, there could be all systems down, a whole city without power or lights will be a dangerous place to be.

I'm afraid a lot of people have forgoten how to live without there microwaves, computers, phones, cars, electric cooking, shops, fridges, electricity and much more.

..Nick..

[panopticon]

G'day Nick,

You make excellent points and I agree that many will not prepare.
There is an excellent series called 'Bushcraft' by Ron Edwards that discusses many of the ways Aussie bushmen survived and thrived in our harsh interior.
People can read to their hearts content however it is hands on experience that makes the difference.
I was only concerned about battery explosion as I will have to fix the battery shed to cope with acid from the buggars connected at the time...

Kind Regards,
Panopticon

[TWINNICK]

G'day.
I would think if any battery terminals had anything connected to them (wires) they will be at risk.

Maybe even the battery terminals themselves (bare) because they are connected to the plates, I'm not sure but it is possible.

If we get any prior warning at all it maybe prudent to disconnect all of your equipment, but I think the panels themselves may be at risk anyway.

Any piping, wires, metal of any kind as far as I'm aware will be at risk of running a surge down it.

Can you get some old pallets from chep, you know the ones they transport goods on flat top trucks, put all of your batteries up off the floor on the pallets to insulate them, disconnect the wiring from the panels and batteries when said EMP is going to hit ( if we get warning).

I have heard a shipping container makes a good faraday cage as long as nothing in side is touching the container itself (insulate) the floors of the containers are wood but they are screwed in so you have to have another level of insulation like old rubber floor mats or something.

Even the humble Aussie shed could be insulated quite cheaply, don't let anything touch the shed metal itself and keep things off the floor.

OH and I like the Bush Tucker Man, he's great, I've met him once years ago. Look up Bush Foods on the net there is a wealth of stuff there with pictures as well so you can identify more easily.

..Nick..

[panopticon]

G'day Nick,

Excellent points.
I've got an AirX and a spare inverter in wire cover for Faraday cage, all in a sea container.
Spare inverter set aside.
Not anticipating being able to use the solar panels if an EMP arrives.
Chose the AirX 12V 400W as it has an inbuilt rectifier/analyser so no need for extras.
Oxy weld for piping etc.
Wiring put to one side so no problems if needed.

Regards,
Panopticon

[TWINNICK]

Posted by panopticon (here)
G'day Nick,

Excellent points.
I've got an AirX and a spare inverter in wire cover for Faraday cage, all in a sea container.
Spare inverter set aside.
Not anticipating being able to use the solar panels if an EMP arrives.
Chose the AirX 12V 400W as it has an inbuilt rectifier/analyser so no need for extras.
Oxy weld for piping etc.
Wiring put to one side so no problems if needed.

Regards,
Panopticon

G'day,

Insulate the contents of the faraday cage by wrapping them in plastic or cloth and maybe even lifted slightly on little blocks of wood.

If we get warning you maybe able to get the solar panels off the roof and into the container and insulated by timber to try and save them as well.

I'm not sure a wire/basket type container is good enough, I think it needs to be solid metal box, it will disipate the field more evenly to the ground.

..Nick..

[panopticon]

G'day Nick,

Sorry. You are completely correct.
I have the box the AirX came in and the inverter wrapped in a tarp, in the wire, on a wooden shelf, in a sea container. (Sounds like a nursery rhyme )
Next to it is the wiring.
I can access the pole the panels are on easily enough just not really sure that it is a priority here (high wind zone) as I would then need to muck about with rectifiers etc...
Thanks for the excellent advice though. I hadn't thought of using pallets as insulators before. I've got a specifically built rack (hence the curiosity as to what an EMP would do to batteries).
BTW do you think an isolation switch is enough to isolate a secondary battery bank (given all above hold true of course) in this instance?

Kind Regards,
Panopticon