What's happening in China?

[cayman]

Posted by write4change (here)

...... The ten minute video you put up of China today was very beautiful. And unlike any China I saw in my six week visit in 1985. ......

Thanks. Hope you will have another trip to China someday.

Posted by write4change (here)
.........

...... She was chosen because no one was being sent who did not have substantial reasons for them to return and be nice during this stay. I think she lived with us just a couple of weeks when a Chinese girl who was expected to be a miraculous tennis player defected and Ling was appalled. She felt it would damage the program and she felt the girl had so little respect for her country.

That's the case. Back in 1980s, many Chinese talents chose that way to have a better life. the government need leverage to hold them especially most of them were funded and approved by government.

Posted by write4change (here)
......... Apparently, there was no sleeping together allowed if you were not married. ......

Today, all you need is your VISA,

Posted by write4change (here)
.......

If you are interested in comparing and contrasting what I learned then to what I see now and you would try to answer some of my questions, I would love to do this. You are already forewarned that I write long and detailed but will not expect that of you. And I will keep my questions simple and straight forward also.

In 1985,I was playing toys in kindergarten. I would love to learn more from you.
long and detailed, that's prefer.

[write4change]

Cayman,

I wrote about two hours but lost it all. I will try again tomorrow.

[hao]

Though i was still young, I was on the streets of Beijing shouting "down with communism" during the 1989 unrest, but when i saw the way the soldiers were killed, with mutilated bodies hanging over the bridges my instinct tells me something was not right.

Years have passed, i have changed my view regarding incident like the "Tian an men square massacre".

William Engdahl wrote an article in response to Liu Xiao Bo's receiving of the Nobel Peace Prize last year. The man was an important figure during the 1989 unrest, but the man is not the “hero” that the Chinese dissidents claim him to be.

"The Geopolitical Agenda behind the 2010 Nobel Peace Prize"

http://oilgeopolitics.net/Geopolitic...opolitics.html

Noam Chomsky has a different approach to “the shame of Communism”

“But there are plenty of atrocities in the world, and a lot of them trace right back to us. And a lot of them aren’t even counted. Let me give you an example that isn’t counted. You’ll remember, I’m sure, a book that came out and was a big best-seller about a year ago called The Black Book of Communism. There were prominent reviews in the New York Times, all over the place. It was a translation of a French book, which estimated the number of people killed by the Communists at one hundred million. Well, without quibbling about the numbers, let’s say that’s right.

The biggest component of that was a famine in China from 1958 to 1960, which is estimated to have killed about twenty-five million people. The reason why that’s called a political crime – an ideological crime – which is a good reason in my opinion, was discussed in most detail by Amartya Sen; it’s part of the work for which he won the Noble Prize. Sen is an economist who treated this as an ideological crime for good reasons. He said it wasn’t a matter of intent; they didn’t intend to kill anybody. It’s just that the ideological institutions were such that it happened. It was a totalitarian state where no information about what was happening ever got back to the centre. They couldn’t take any action because that’s what happens in a totalitarian state. So it was a reflection of the totalitarian institution, a huge massacre that wasn’t intended. They didn’t intend to kill twenty-five million people, but it was still a major massacre, and it’s correct to call it one of the major atrocities of the twentieth century, and the worst single component of the crimes of Communism. That’s accurate.

That bears on your question of intent. But that’s only half the story. If you look at Amartya Sen’s work, for which he won the Nobel Prize and for which he’s famous academically, he studied famines and the conditions that lead to them. And as a major part of this, he compared India and China. Of course, India, while it was under British rule, had huge famines all the time, with tens of millions of people dying, but nobody counts that among the crimes of British imperialism because. Again, when we do it, it’s not a crime.

But starting from independence, as Sen points out, India had plenty of starvation, but it didn’t have major famines of that kind. From 1947 until the time when he did the work for which he won the Nobel Prize, around 1980, there were no major famines. He compares that with China, which did have this one major famine, and he points to a difference in institutions between the two countries. In India, which was democratic, if information appeared about hunger somewhere, the central authorities could do something about it, so there weren’t major famines.

That’s part of what he wrote. That part is known all over the place. But then he continued. Here’s the rest, from the same articles and the same books, but not known. He then said, Well, let’s compare the death rates in China and India from 1947 until the time he wrote. They were approximately the same around 1947, similar countries, and so on. The mortality rate started to decline in China pretty sharply; it stayed very high in India. And he regards that as an ideological crime, too.

He says the difference is that China instituted rural health clinics, preventive medicine for the poor, and so on, and this led to a significant improvement in health standards, so you get a decline in mortality rates. India didn’t. It was a democratic capitalist country, in which you don’t do anything for poor people. And he then points out that if you take a look at the difference between those curves, let me just quote him, he says, “India seems to manage to fill its cupboard with more skeletons every eight years than China put there in its years of shame [1958-61].”

That comes to about one hundred million people in India alone from 1947 to 1980. But we don’t call that a crime of democratic capitalism. If we were to carry out that calculation throughout the world… I won’t even talk about it. But Sen is correct; they’re not intended, just like the Chinese famine wasn’t intended. But they are ideological and institutional crimes, and capitalist democracy and its advocates are responsible for them, in whatever sense supporters of so-called Communism are responsible for the Chinese famine. We don’t have the entire responsibility, but certainly a large part of it.

So, yes, if you count crimes, it’s an ugly record, but it’s only the enemy’s crimes that count. They’re the ones that we deplore and agonize about, and so on. Our own, which may be monstrously worse, they just don’t enter into our field of vision. You don’t study them, you don’t read about them, you don’t think about them, nobody writes about them. We’re just not allowed to think about them, and if we agree to that, that’s our choice.”

Page 77-80, quote from Noam Chomsky’s “Power and Terror – post 9/11 talks and interviews”

P.S. Just to comment about the Australian movie "Tomorrow, When the War Began"
I see Australia has its own version of the "Red Dawn", and the Aussies are alarmed when they were shocked by the scene of an Australian citizen shot by the Chinese officer.

How about the Chinese family who were brutally murdered in Australia in 2009, 2 youngsters and 2 women, having their heads smashed to pieces, how about the Indian students who were attacked in the same year? It's amazing and ironic when racism and xenophobia is rising in Australia, the Aussies should worry about some phantom Chinese army invading Australia. It's no wonder then One Nation members can march on the streets accusing China's human rights in Tibet in 2008 when they themselves are racist towards the first Australians. For them, raising the "anti-China" flag is really all about anti-immigrants, of which the Chinese are the largest non-white group.

Australia is worried about China's growing military ties with the pacific nations, but it’s not China's fault that Australia treated East Timor as its de facto possession and exploited the resources in East Timorese territories for Australia's own benefit which gradually pushed East Timor away from the arms of their "liberator".

Instead of worrying about the Chinese, Australia should change its attitude and fix the relations with the south pacific nations. And "Tomorrow, When the War Began" is not helping in that regard.

[hao]

https://www.freeconferencing.com/pla...-17-65-670.mp3

a very interesting and important audio

http://kauilapele.wordpress.com/2011...-to-this-call/

[bluestflame]

Hao: ...In Australia , we,( generally speaking) are not immune to media manipulation, manipulation of public perception.

Although many are aware of this game and seek alternative sources of information

just like this one, Avalon

[the_flyingboy]

Hello friend i've seen a video from Bill called "the anglo-saxon mission" it says something about china that china will catch a cold meaning that they (a controling group) will send a virus of some sort.

[cayman]

Posted by hao (here)
Though i was still young, I was on the streets of Beijing shouting "down with communism" during the 1989 unrest, but when i saw the way the soldiers were killed, with mutilated bodies hanging over the bridges my instinct tells me something was not right.

Years have passed, i have changed my view regarding incident like the "Tian an men square massacre".

William Engdahl wrote an article in response to Liu Xiao Bo's receiving of the Nobel Peace Prize last year. The man was an important figure during the 1989 unrest, but the man is not the “hero” that the Chinese dissidents claim him to be.

"The Geopolitical Agenda behind the 2010 Nobel Peace Prize"

http://oilgeopolitics.net/Geopolitic...opolitics.html

........

I was very young in 1989, but I do remember scenes from TV "soldiers were killed, with mutilated bodies hanging over the bridges ". other than that, I have no first hand experience what so ever. soldiers follow their order, students believe their idea,conspirators with their ambitions, dignitaries with different agendas-----It is such a complicate matters, let the History be the judge.

About Liu Xiao Bo, I have some second hand info about his arrest and the forces behind the "Nobel Peace Prize" nomination. Let me put it this way: other than "The Geopolitical Agenda", there is a "Domestic Agenda" behind that, he is being used as an icon or banner by some clerisy proportion within the government. basically, now, Liu is a bait for both Geopolitical Agenda and Domestic Agenda.

[Enquiring1]

For what its worth I think you have hit the nail on the head.

Chinese people are the missing key to the puzzle (and a extremely large key at that) and the most qualified.

Keep your self safe brother. BTW i think yours is the most interesting thread on the site right now...................

[cayman]

Posted by the_flyingboy (here)
Hello friend i've seen a video from Bill called "the anglo-saxon mission" it says something about china that china will catch a cold meaning that they (a controling group) will send a virus of some sort.

I think that story is still a possible scenario, Especially after I learn some more about the bacterin system in China, which is a deep hole I don't even want to know more. only experts can unveil some level of that rabbit hole......

The current Director-General of WHO is a very intriguing aspect of this story, http://www.who.int/dg/en/index.html
Highlight of her resume :
“Prior to joining WHO, she was Director of Health in Hong Kong. During her nine-year tenure as director, Dr Chan confronted the first human outbreak of H5N1 avian influenza in 1997. She successfully defeated the spate of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in Hong Kong in 2003. ”
one might wondering.....

[hao]

I understand, I have met some family members of the ruling CCP high official, from the conversations, i sense intense rivalries among the top leaders, the corruption is rampant, and there is also the effort to combat corruption.

It will be very interesting when the next government replaces the current one.

[hao]

Posted by cayman (here)
I think that story is still a possible scenario, Especially after I learn some more about the bacterin system in China, which is a deep hole I don't even want to know more. only experts can unveil some level of that rabbit hole......

The current Director-General of WHO is a very intriguing aspect of this story, http://www.who.int/dg/en/index.html
Highlight of her resume :
“Prior to joining WHO, she was Director of Health in Hong Kong. During her nine-year tenure as director, Dr Chan confronted the first human outbreak of H5N1 avian influenza in 1997. She successfully defeated the spate of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in Hong Kong in 2003. ”
one might wondering.....

Its an international "deep hole" i may add

WHO ‘Swine Flu Pope’ under investigation for gross conflict of interest

http://www.oilgeopolitics.net/Swine_.../flu_pope.html

Magret chan is really a "pawn".

[Tom Sawyer]

Posted by the_flyingboy (here)
Hello friend i've seen a video from Bill called "the anglo-saxon mission" it says something about china that china will catch a cold meaning that they (a controling group) will send a virus of some sort.

I've seen it too. I can say that nothing is strictly scheduled or even has only a probability to be put on plan.
And this is Why (I think):
First - as we know now from Charles (the elite' way of thinking) time is nothing for them. Something can happen right NOW, tomorrow or in the next several years OR don't happen at all because the DISINFORMATION as such is the Elite' favorite Game. Such kind of information has strong influence on people's mind and helps Them to control masses in a particular situation.
Second - Those controllers have a very flexible mind which makes them constantly change their plans to gain as much power and money in a particular situation that is possible.
I've heard a very wise conclusion - "The problem now IS to find and offer THEM a way to make big money from doing good things".

[cayman]

Posted by hao (here)
......
It will be very interesting when the next government replaces the current one.

After 60 years, things just circle back. funny like that

[Rupertmoon]

I love my Chinese brothers and sisters. I want to play the part to help collectively raise the consciousness, this is going to be very important how this plays out in the coming years. Cayman and Hao... it's great to see you on this site. My girlfriend and I want to start a retreat in Yunnan in a few years to talk about these topics and get this information to the general public.

Strong spirit, no shame.
Thank you for this thread and this moment in time.

Richard

[hao]

Posted by cayman (here)
I was very young in 1989, but I do remember scenes from TV "soldiers were killed, with mutilated bodies hanging over the bridges ". other than that, I have no first hand experience what so ever. soldiers follow their order, students believe their idea,conspirators with their ambitions, dignitaries with different agendas-----It is such a complicate matters, let the History be the judge.

About Liu Xiao Bo, I have some second hand info about his arrest and the forces behind the "Nobel Peace Prize" nomination. Let me put it this way: other than "The Geopolitical Agenda", there is a "Domestic Agenda" behind that, he is being used as an icon or banner by some clerisy proportion within the government. basically, now, Liu is a bait for both Geopolitical Agenda and Domestic Agenda.

I know for sure CIA was involved in the 1989 unrest, because someone very close to me was a prominent student leader in a western country, i know first hand how he was targeted by the CIA as a potential candidate for their own interest, and fortunately that's when he decided to leave the movement because he suddenly realized that this "democratic movement" has the hands of foreign Intelligence behind it.

If you ask me, the violence against the soldiers was a mean to stimulate more violence,of which it was partially successful, but China didn't disintegrate unlike the USSR. It was different scene when the troops first arrived, people tried to reason with soldiers, people greeted them with foods and drinks, but it changed when the soldiers allegedly started beating the protesters with their helmets (the troops didn't carry weapons so it was the helmet that started the crackdown).That's when everything changed.
But one has to ask this question, if the CIA was involved in that movement, then can one be certain of what appears as black is really black or what appears as white is really white?

It's also interesting to note what former Singaporean prime minister Lee Kuan Yew says about Tiananmen incident in his Memoirs, "if similar incident happened in Singapore i would have acted rather quickly to quiet it down; the Chinese didnt have rubber bullets".

The importance of Lee's opinion is the remind of who was on the "offensive" and who was on the "defensive", which will be helpful in understanding the event.

[hao]

Posted by Rupertmoon (here)
I love my Chinese brothers and sisters. I want to play the part to help collectively raise the consciousness, this is going to be very important how this plays out in the coming years. Cayman and Hao... it's great to see you on this site. My girlfriend and I want to start a retreat in Yunnan in a few years to talk about these topics and get this information to the general public.

Strong spirit, no shame.
Thank you for this thread and this moment in time.

Richard

I came across this site because of Klaus Dona's "the hidden history of the human race". "Ancient aliens of China" is my strongest interest atm, im planning a South American trip early this year, because i have discovered a strong cultural connection between ancient pre-Incan Andean cultures and ancient cultures in China. What interest me most is i believe the common bond of the two continents can be traced back to ancient extraterrestrial contacts.

I guess it has to do with my personal experiences too, since i have witnessed UFOs here in China, and very possibly i was abducted by Aliens many years ago.

[Myatding]

If y'all missed this in another thread I'm reposting this mp3 here, as it is very relevant to events involving China at the moment (in a major way).

This was shared, but then the link expired. FORTUNATELY I downloaded it before it expired! I have uploaded it to my website so that it will remain available. Does anyone know who this guy being interviewed is? I'd love to see Bill do an interview with him!


I don't know if that is working right, as someone else said that it would only play 3 mintutes, so here is the link:

http://files.hoza.me/Information-on-...c-2Feb2011.mp3

Cheers,
Mark

[sjkted]

Hao and Cayman:

Have you been watching the thread Are sociopaths human? (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ciopaths-human).

Do you think that China's current leaders are sociopaths?

--sjkted

[Abhaya]

Posted by Myatding (here)
If y'all missed this in another thread I'm reposting this mp3 here, as it is very relevant to events involving China at the moment (in a major way).

This was shared, but then the link expired. FORTUNATELY I downloaded it before it expired! I have uploaded it to my website so that it will remain available. Does anyone know who this guy being interviewed is? I'd love to see Bill do an interview with him!


I don't know if that is working right, as someone else said that it would only play 3 mintutes, so here is the link:

http://files.hoza.me/Information-on-...c-2Feb2011.mp3

Cheers,
Mark

I thought this interview was hugely important also!! What do you guys think of this!?!?!

[Rufs]

Amazing - thank you for that, a real "must see".