Water Fasting

[RunningDeer]

Brainstorming/out of the box thought ...

The new material/growth/cell replacement is stressed because it wasn't conditioned from prior hikes; there's temporary water retention from small micro tears/micro trauma and inflammation.

I Just Started Exercising — Why Am I Gaining Weight?

Why the initial weight gain?

When you start an exercise program, your body naturally goes through several changes in the first couple months.

A new exercise regimen puts stress on your muscle fibers. This causes small micro tears, also known as micro trauma, and some inflammation. Those two conditions in your muscle fibers are the reason you may gain some weight.

Your body responds to the micro tears and inflammation in two ways that cause temporary water weight gain.

The first is a healing response.

“That stress and micro-tearing damage to the muscle fibers induces water retention in the body,” Dr. Calabrese explains. “There may be a small amount of inflammation around the micro tear, and your body retains fluid there to try to heal it.”

These are short lived changes in the muscle.

snippet from article

[thepainterdoug]

dear running dear/ as long as my weight gain is in my case, in my chest! and not around my gut, Ill take it! lol Thanks all, Im inching up on this. Its not a New Years resolution or any of that stuff, I had read something by Tim Ferris regarding and then it popped up here.

[Valerie Villars]

Posted by RunningDeer (here)
Brainstorming/out of the box thought ...

The new material/growth/cell replacement is stressed because it wasn't conditioned from prior hikes; there's temporary water retention from small micro tears/micro trauma and inflammation.

I Just Started Exercising — Why Am I Gaining Weight?

Why the initial weight gain?

When you start an exercise program, your body naturally goes through several changes in the first couple months.

A new exercise regimen puts stress on your muscle fibers. This causes small micro tears, also known as micro trauma, and some inflammation. Those two conditions in your muscle fibers are the reason you may gain some weight.

Your body responds to the micro tears and inflammation in two ways that cause temporary water weight gain.

The first is a healing response.

“That stress and micro-tearing damage to the muscle fibers induces water retention in the body,” Dr. Calabrese explains. “There may be a small amount of inflammation around the micro tear, and your body retains fluid there to try to heal it.”

These are short lived changes in the muscle.

snippet from article

That's what I was trying to say. I've been athletic since I was a little girl.

[jc71]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Hello, Folks: I wanted to just share a bit of data from my fast (broken today ), and ask for opinions or hypotheses. There were some obvious anomalies that raised my eyebrows and which I'm still not convinced I understand.

Here's the weight-loss graph, in lbs and kg.





Everything was normal and as expected until it started to level out. And then (see my post #293 above) on Day 8 I did a mountain hike (which surprised me! I really was doubtful I'd be able to do it) — and which must have been a 5000 calorie day. (I know calories have little to do with weight control, but I wanted to convey an idea of the workout. I was burning something.)

I was bewildered when my weight went UP after the strenuous hike. I figured it must be water retention... but why? And the water retention must have started to kick in the previous day, too. And then, on or after the hike, that accentuated it. I've done a number of week-or-more fasts (maximum 14 days), and this has never happened before. It's always been pretty much a fairly straight trendline.

I searched on the net, and thee are various health/ fasting/ bodybuilding forums out there. Now and then fasters have reported this, and always ask 'how come?' The response has always been reassuring: "It's just water retention, it'll sort itself out, and who knows what the body's doing or why."

That wasn't enough for me. I couldn't find any research articles about this, and so I started to talk to my body. I figured my body might know. This was all last night, just before I broke the fast.

I did a visualization: I imagined (in all its delicious glory!) a huge buffet spread of everything one might imagine, the kind you'd see for lunch at a 5 star hotel. It had salads, potatoes, rice, vegetables of all kinds, breads, fish, meats, eggs, cheeses, fruit, yogurts and sugary desserts. And to drink there were all kinds of juices, tea, coffee, milk, and all sorts.

I asked my body what it wanted. MEAT AND FISH, it said. (Loudly! ) I asked it: Fruit? Juice? Veg? And it said: NO. MEAT AND FISH. AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, PLEASE.

That was really interesting. The response seemed vivid. This is hardly science! But I figured it must mean something. Of course, this is problematic, because to break a fast with a bunch of high protein is asking for trouble. One has to break it gently with easy-to-digest stuff like soft fruits and juices.

But my body clearly needed protein. My GUESS — and it's only a guess — is that I was starting to break down muscle (having run out of easily accessible fat — especially during the hike), and that somehow metabolically triggered the water retention.

But I can't find any data to substantiate that. It's just a personal guess.

If this is correct, then it's important, because it means that if one's weight loss when fasting starts to plateau, or even increase — then STOP.

Many posting here know a lot about fasting (likely more than I do!) and so I sincerely welcome feedback, information and ideas. Thanks!

Hi Bill,

I had a similar plateau on my chart from February last year and I couldn't understand it at the time either as I had consistently been losing 1-2 lbs per day up until then.

Here was my chart at the time:



I hadn't done any big aerobic activity as far as I remember, but it was around day 7 of my fast too.

Very strange. I am going to look closely at day 7 of my upcoming fast

JC

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by RunningDeer (here)
Brainstorming/out of the box thought ...

The new material/growth/cell replacement is stressed because it wasn't conditioned from prior hikes; there's temporary water retention from small micro tears/micro trauma and inflammation.

I Just Started Exercising — Why Am I Gaining Weight?

Why the initial weight gain?

When you start an exercise program, your body naturally goes through several changes in the first couple months.

A new exercise regimen puts stress on your muscle fibers. This causes small micro tears, also known as micro trauma, and some inflammation. Those two conditions in your muscle fibers are the reason you may gain some weight.

Your body responds to the micro tears and inflammation in two ways that cause temporary water weight gain.

The first is a healing response.

“That stress and micro-tearing damage to the muscle fibers induces water retention in the body,” Dr. Calabrese explains. “There may be a small amount of inflammation around the micro tear, and your body retains fluid there to try to heal it.”

These are short lived changes in the muscle.

snippet from article

Paula, many thanks, and fascinating — just goes to remind us there's such a lot happening behind the scenes (inside our own bodies!) that most of us know so very little about.

I knew it was something to do with muscles! And that mechanism ^^ may very well be what was happening.

[onawah]

The Complete Guide to Fasting: A Special Interview With Dr. Jason Fung
Written by Dr. Joseph Mercola
December 30, 2018
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/a..._rid=506985282

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=G7oLbFPo6jY

"STORY AT-A-GLANCE
Fasting is the oldest dietary intervention in the world. Modern science confirms it can have a profoundly beneficial influence on your health, including efficient weight loss, reversal of type 2 diabetes and more
Fasting and starvation are not the same. Fasting is voluntary and you can start or stop at any time while starvation is forced with no alternatives
Contrary to popular belief, water fasting is safe for most people. Groups that should NOT fast include those who are underweight or malnourished, children and pregnant or breastfeeding women
Fasting is one of the oldest dietary interventions in the world, and modern science confirms it can have a profoundly beneficial influence on your health. Dr. Jason Fung, a nephrologist (kidney specialist) with a practice in Canada, has written an important landmark book on this topic.

"The Complete Guide to Fasting: Heal Your Body Through Intermittent, Alternate-Day, and Extended Fasting," co-authored with Jimmy Moore, details how to implement fasting and overcome some of the most common challenges that might arise, including persistent fears and myths associated with extended water fasting.

For the first decade of his practice, Fung was — like most doctors — conventionally oriented. As a kidney specialist, many of his patients had type 2 diabetes as the primary cause of their kidney failure.

Fasting Helps Reverse Diabetes — And Related Health Conditions
It became clear to him that the conventional treatment of type 2 diabetes was seriously flawed. Despite patients' best efforts to manage their diabetes, taking their insulin and following the recommended diet and so on, they would still end up with complications such as kidney disease, requiring dialysis, or they'd need amputations, or they'd go blind.

"As a doctor, we got trained to give medications, but obviously it wasn't working," he says. "The answer is actually pretty obvious. Because if diabetes, type 2 predominantly, is what's causing the kidney disease, you're not going to be able to do anything about the kidney disease until you get rid of the diabetes.

That was kind of where I started. Then I thought, 'Everybody says type 2 diabetes is this chronic kind of progressive disease … It only goes forward, one way.' But actually when you think about it, type 2 diabetes isn't like that at all …

[I]f you want to get rid of the type 2 diabetes, you have to get rid of the obesity … That's how you're going to help people get better. I started thinking about what causes weight gain … It's certainly not calories.

That's our big mistake. That's why we've been unsuccessful at creating weight loss, because we've got the wrong kind of target …

It's really about the hormonal balance and predominantly about insulin. We have to reduce insulin. Low-carbohydrate diets are a way to lower insulin … In some people, that'll reverse their diabetes …

I started using low-carbohydrate diets and it didn't really work. The problem was that it was a little complicated for people …

I had to make it simpler … I thought, 'Why not fasting?' … It's been used for thousands of years … I started looking at some of the science … There are actually huge benefits that we weren't recognizing.

Part of it was also we've always been trained, 'You have to eat. You have to eat.' But in fact, that's not true. If you think about it, in the old days … there would be lots of days where people didn't eat …

That's really what [body] fat is [for]. It's really simply stored fuel; stored food energy. We're using it [when we fast]. That's it. That's all that happens. There's no serious side effects or consequences to fasting.

If there was, we would have known about it several thousand years ago. But there wasn't. That's where I started from."

The Clinical Use of Fasting
Fung went on to implement fasting in his practice, and the results, he says, have been "unbelievable." He's been able to take many patients off all medications; they're losing weight, report increased energy, and their diabetes is reversed.

"This is why we go into medicine: To make people better. For the first time, this was what was happening. Before, for 10 years, all I did was watch people get worse until I put them on dialysis. That was really not the way to go," he says.

When he first sought to implement this program clinically, there was no formal guide to follow, which is what inspired him to write "The Complete Guide to Fasting." Using his own clinical experience, he created a guide that anyone can use to their benefit.

"When people start, they're super skeptical. They think it's [a] terrible [idea]. But then they come back and they're total converts. They're like, 'This is the best thing.'

Because they're losing weight, they're seeing that their medications are going down, their sugars are going down. It's obvious to them that they're actually getting much, much healthier," he says.

"This is all without medications. We're trying to take away medications. It's an all-natural solution. You're really letting your body just clean itself out from all of that excess sugar and fat.

There's nothing wrong with that. It's free. It's available. All we have to do is give people the knowledge and they can make themselves better, which is incredible."

If you're obese, nutritional ketosis is another excellent dietary protocol. I recently interviewed Dr. Jeanne Drisko, head of the University of Kansas Integrative Medical Center, who has used a ketogenic protocol in a clinical setting for many years now.

The challenge is implementation and compliance. Nutritional ketosis is more complicated than fasting. Fasting can also be a more rapid process. Rather than waiting weeks or months for your body to upregulate and be able to effectively metabolize fat again, fasting really jumpstarts this process.

Breaking Down Myths About Fasting
Fung's book is so helpful because it provides easy-to-follow basic guidelines for fasting, and reviews some of the most common myths and fears that keep many from implementing a fasting regimen.

One common myth is that fasting will lead to loss of muscle mass. The book clearly describes the process of protein catabolism, explaining how your body actually downregulates protein catabolism and upregulates growth hormones in response to fasting.

"If you follow the biochemistry, your body stores energy as glycogen in the liver, which is links or chains of sugar, and then it stores [it as] body fat.

During fasting, you start by burning off all the glycogen in the liver, which is all the sugar. There's a point there where some of the excess amino acids in your body need to get burnt as well.

That's where people say, 'That's where you're burning muscle.' That's not actually what happens. The body never upregulates its protein catabolism. Never is it burning muscle; there's a normal turnover that goes on.

There is a certain amount of protein that you need for a regular turnover. When you start fasting, that starts to go down and then fat oxidation goes way up. In essence, what you've done is you switched over from burning sugar to burning fat. Once you start burning fat, there's almost an unlimited amount of calories there. You could go for days and days.

What's interesting is that if you take a pound of fat, that's roughly 3,500 calories. If you eat somewhere around 1,800 to 2,000 calories a day, it takes two full days of fasting to burn a single pound of fat, which is very surprising to people.

If you're trying to lose 100 pounds, you could theoretically go 200 days of fasting just to burn all that fat … People worry about fasting for 24 hours. I'm like, 'You could go 200 days.' Then it's like, 'OK. Maybe it's OK to go 24 hours without eating.'"

The 'Starvation Mode' Myth
Another common fear is that fasting equals starvation, which is not true. First of all, starvation is a forced situation that you have no control over whereas fasting is optional. You have complete control. Many also believe they cannot or should not fast because it will send their body into "starvation mode" — a situation where the body starts holding on to fat rather than burning it off.

"What they're talking about is where the body's metabolism starts to slow down so significantly that instead of burning 2,000 calories a day, your body might burn 1,000 calories a day.

In that case, even if you're eating only 1,500 calories a day, for example, you're going to gain your weight back. That's actually what happens when you reduce your calories. We know that … as you cut your calorie intake, your calorie expenditure goes down as well.

Starvation mode actually is guaranteed if you just try and cut your calories. But what's interesting is that fasting doesn't do that. What happens during fasting is that … after four days of fasting, the basal metabolic rate is actually 10 percent higher than when you started.

The body has not shut down at all. In fact, what it's done is it switched fuel sources. It switched from burning food to burning [body] fat. Once it's burning [body] fat, it's like, 'Hey, there's plenty of this stuff. Let's burn our 2,000 calories'…"

This is also why fasting tends to increase energy opposed to leaving you feeling drained. If you're overweight and lethargic, fasting helps unlock all that energy already lodged in your body that you previously had no access to. Fasting forces your body to start accessing those stores of energy, and once that happens, your body suddenly has a near unlimited supply of energy!

Fasting also helps improve other biochemical systems in your body. There's interplay of hormonal systems like the mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR), AMPK, leptin and IGF-1 — all of which are optimized in the right direction when fasting. It also improves your mitochondrial function, allowing your mitochondria to regenerate. So it's not just simply turning on an enzyme switch to burn fat; it's a very complex process that upregulates in the direction of health.

Understanding the Role of Insulin
Insulin is the primary hormone that tells your body whether to store energy or burn it. When you eat, you're taking calories in and insulin goes up. Higher levels of insulin signal your body to store energy. When insulin falls, it tells your body to release energy. When you develop insulin resistance, your insulin levels remain chronically elevated, hence your body is in constant fat-storing mode.

Without the signal to burn energy, you end up feeling tired and sluggish. You have plenty of fuel available, but it's all "locked away" in your fat cells, and it will remain unavailable until your body receives the appropriate signal — a drop in insulin. This is also why it's so difficult to lose weight when you are insulin resistant.

The key to breaking this cycle is to have sustained low insulin for periods of time, and this is why fasting can be so tremendously beneficial. Fasting lowers insulin more powerfully than any other strategy, which then allows the stored energy (body fat) to be used again.

"That's why you start to use up some of your fat stores and you're not hungry, because you're, in essence, eating your own fat. That's the other thing that people are always surprised about. When they come back, they say, 'Hey, I'm not actually that hungry.' I'm like, 'That's no surprise, because your body is burning fat. If it's burning [body] fat, it doesn't need to eat," Fung explains.

"We talk a lot about what you should eat and what you shouldn't eat. But people never talk about meal timing — making sure you have long periods where you're not eating. Look at the word "breakfast" in English. That's break fast. That's the meal that breaks your fast. That implies two things: One, fasting is a part of everyday life. We've forgotten that. We think it's some sort of Herculean effort, but it's not. We should be fasting every day.

If you balance your periods of feeding and fasting, you will stay in balance. If you are always in feeding phase, then you're not going to be in balance and you're going to gain weight. The second thing it means is that you can break your fast at any time. It doesn't have to be 8:00 in the morning. You can break your fast at any time of the day or you can eat two days later.

It's not that important … People, even when they're not hungry, are forcing themselves to eat something … Forcing yourself to eat when you're not hungry is not a winning strategy for weight loss. Logically, it doesn't make sense. But these sort of illogical thoughts get propagated and then it becomes conventional dietary advice."

Variations of Fasting
There are many ways to do an extended fast. Following are some of the most common variations:

• Water fasting — This is exactly what it sounds like: You don't eat; you only drink water, for several days in a row (typically no less than 24 hours).

• Water plus non-caloric beverages — A slight variation on the water fast is to include other non-caloric beverages, such as herbal tea and coffee (without milk, sugar or other sweetener, including artificial non-caloric sweeteners).

• Bone broth variation — Another variation Fung often recommends for longer fasts is to allow the use of bone broth. In addition to healthy fats, bone broth also contains lots of protein, so it's not really a true fast.

Still, in his clinical experience, many who take bone broth in addition to water, tea and coffee experience good results. "If you're getting the results you want and it's making it easier for you to stick to the program, then you should do it," he says. "If you start getting bad results with fat fasting or bone broth fasting, you can go to classic water-only fast."

• Fat fasting — Here, you allow healthy fats during the fast in addition to water and/or non-caloric beverages. While you probably would not eat a stick of butter, you could have bulletproof coffee (black coffee with butter, coconut oil or MCT oil), for example. Alternatively, you could add the fat to your tea.

Dietary fat produces a very minor insulin response, and since you're keeping your insulin levels low, you're still getting most of the benefits of fasting even though you're consuming plenty of calories. Adding healthy fats such as butter, coconut oil, MCT oil and avocado can make the fasting experience a lot easier. "Lots of people have done very well with this sort of fat fast," Fung notes, adding "Anything that increases your probability of success I'm all for."

I'm personally quite intrigued with the fat fast. I recommended water fasting to my landscaper, but after three days she felt really fatigued. While this is a normal response in the initial stages, I made her a "fat-bomb drink," which perked her right back up. I use Pau d'arco tea as the base.

It contains beta-lapachone, which upregulates NAD+, an important electron transfer mechanism and mitochondrial signaling molecule. To that, I add some coconut oil, MCT C8 oil, butter and a little stevia. It contains about 400 or 500 calories per cup.

Part of the key is to avoid protein to inhibit mTOR. While the level of protein at which you'll counteract the benefits of fasting is individual, Fung believes you'll likely see results as long as you stay below 10 or 20 grams of protein per day. As a reminder, protein raises your insulin, although not to the same degree as net carbs do. Excess protein is likely more damaging metabolically than excess carbs.

"I was looking at some data recently where they graphed where your blood sugars are in relation to where your ketones are. Ketones start to go up as your blood glucose falls [but] that slope changes in different people," Fung says. "If you look at, for instance, type 2 diabetics, they have a very steep slope. That is their blood glucose — even as it falls — ketones don't go up.

That's probably why they feel like crap, because they're not getting the ketones. The blood glucose is going down, which it should, but the body should be producing ketones for their fuel for the brain, but it's not.

In those cases, some of the fat bombs, some of the exogenous ketones, may actually make it a lot easier for people to get through that. As your body becomes [fat] adapted, which can take two weeks to a month, that shouldn't happen anymore …

If you have never fasted and you do a three-day fast, you may feel pretty lousy. We tell people to expect that. You can either continue or you can take a break and let your body become more adapted to it."

The same applies to hunger pangs, which tend to kick in the hardest on the second day of a fast. By the fifth or sixth day, however, hunger practically disappears.

Important Contraindications
While 80 percent of the population would likely benefit from water fasting, there are several absolute contraindications. If any of the following apply to you, you should NOT do extended types of fasting:

Underweight, defined as having a body mass index (BMI) of 18.5 or less.
Malnourished (in which case you need to eat healthier, more nutritious food).
Children should not fast for longer than 24 hours, as they need nutrients for continued growth. If your child needs to lose weight, a far safer and more appropriate approach is to cut out refined sugars and grains. Fasting is risky for children as it cuts out ALL nutrients, including those they need a steady supply of.
Pregnant and/or breastfeeding women. The mother needs a steady supply of nutrients in order to assure the baby's healthy growth and development, so fasting during pregnancy or while breastfeeding is simply too risky for the child.
Use Caution If You're on Medication
If you're on medication, you need to use caution when fasting, as some may need to be taken with food. This includes metformin, aspirin and any other drugs that might cause stomach upset or stomach ulcers. Risks are especially high if you're on diabetic medication. If you take the same dose of medication but don't eat, you run the risk of having very low blood sugars (hypoglycemia), which can be very dangerous.

So, if you're on diabetic drugs, you must adjust your medication before you fast. If your doctor is adverse toward or unfamiliar with fasting, you'd be wise to find one that has some experience in this area so that they can guide you on how to do this safely.

Keep in mind that hypoglycemia is best diagnosed by symptoms alone, opposed to any specific blood glucose number. I wear a 24-hour continuous glucose monitor. Sometimes when I'm really pushing my carbs low, I'll go down to 35 milligrams per deciliter (mg/dl) at night, yet I'm not symptomatic at all. For someone who's hypoglycemic or used to having blood sugar levels of 180, dropping to 35 could put them in serious trouble.

Also be aware that if you have high uric acid, fasting can precipitate gout. Fasting tends to increase your uric acid level because your kidneys increase their reabsorption of uric acid when you don't eat. Most people will not experience a problem, but if you have gout you may need to consult with your physician about this.

Interesting Facts About Fasting and Meal Timing
Your body is a marvel of ingenuity, and the more you can work WITH it rather than against it, the healthier you're likely to be. Consider the following: Intermittent fasting involves scheduling your meals in such a way that you get a period of fasting each day. Typically, you'll eat all of your meals within a six- or seven-hour window. When I first started intermittent fasting, I decided to skip breakfast.

However, in studying mitochondrial function, I realized it's not a good idea to eat late at night, because that's when your body is readying for rest, regeneration and repair. Eating in the evening creates surplus ATP, which will simply generate excessive amounts of damaging reactive oxygen species (ROS). At that point, I began avoiding food for a minimum of three hours (and typically it's closer to five or even six hours) before bedtime.

"There's some interesting data on that," Fung says. "If you look at insulin response, insulin drives a lot of weight gain. But if you take the same meal close to bedtime versus in the middle of the day, you actually get a higher insulin response at the end of the day, which is interesting and which is not good.

I actually think it's best to take your biggest meal sometime [around] lunch to early afternoon, and then go easy at [your] night time meal and into the next day. I think there's something in that … There's not a lot of science out there, but I think it really makes a lot of sense. In terms of the advantages of fasting, the key thing to understand is that fasting is almost the opposite of every diet that's out there. That's why it's so successful.

There are so many advantages to it: It's not complicating your life. It's actually simplifying your life. It doesn't cost any money. In fact, this saves you money. It doesn't take any time. In fact, it saves you time because you don't have to cook, you don't have to eat, you don't have to do anything. You don't have to plan for it.

There are so many different ways that it's beneficial. You can add it to any diet. If you're vegetarian, you can still fast. If you don't eat nuts, if you have an allergy to meat, if you can't cook, you can still fast. Any diet can be improved by fasting. It's so powerful. You can continue fasting as long as you want until you get the benefits that you want. The world record is 382 days. You can go a long time powered on your own body fat."

Yes, Fasting Is Safe and, Yes, You Can Do It
Barring you fall into any of the contraindicated groups, fasting is safe. Even very sick patients have done it and improved their health in the process. Fung has been using water fasting and variations thereof in his clinical practice for the past five years.

In that time, he's placed well over 1,000 patients on various fasting regimens. Some do tremendously well. One man in his mid-50s had struggled with diabetes for two decades. Within two weeks, he was able to quit taking all of his diabetes medications. His blood sugar was back to normal without them.

"Then his sister saw he was doing really well. She comes in. She's on three pills for diabetes. Within a month, we took her off all three. She takes herself off the other two blood pressure medications and cholesterol pills. We took her off six medications in a month and a half. That's amazing. Obviously, they did very well. But that just goes to show you what can happen when you try some of these things," Fung says.

"Initially, there was a huge amount of skepticism. Everybody thought I was crazy. But now I have so much support from my own local area because everybody has seen the results. I have lots of doctors at my hospital who are doing it. Once they see it themselves, they're like … 'This is amazing.' They start referring me patients and say, 'I want these benefits for my patients.'

Because they know they can't provide that kind of supportive environment that we can provide; that we set up in our clinic, where we kind of anticipate their problems, give them the support, the online resources, the books … to be able to do it successfully.

That's the key: To have the acceptance. There are so many naysayers out there who say, 'You shouldn't do this. You can't do this.' But within my own local area now, we're really seeing a lot of strong support for this, because it's undeniable."

More Information
I believe Fung has written an excellent, if not the best, book on how to implement extended fasting. If you're overweight or struggle with chronic illness, I highly recommend getting "The Complete Guide to Fasting," as it will really guide you through the process. Most likely — unless you're taking medications — you will not require a professional healthcare consultant help you. It's nice to have, but you can likely manage on your own.

You can also learn more by visiting Fung's website, IntensiveDietaryManagement.com. It has a weekly blog and provides a lot of information about fasting and related topics.

"The most important message, I suppose, is that health is really yours to take back, to take back from all the drug pushers and the people who just want you to take medications and who tell you that you can't do it and you'll always have type 2 diabetes," Fung says.

"The solutions are all there. It's all within your grasp. It just requires the right knowledge … As physicians, the 19th to 20th century is all about drugs because we had a lot of infections. That was a great model. You take those antibiotics, you get better.

But now as we go onto the 21st century, it's all metabolic diseases. They're all dietary diseases. The problem is we're trying to use drugs for dietary diseases. Then we wonder why our drugs are no good. It's because the premise is entirely wrong. It's like bringing a snorkel to a bicycle race. It's just the wrong thing. We've got to move on." "

[Bill Ryan]

Folks, a friend has asked if I might post something here on their behalf. They're an Avalon member, but they're reluctant to share all their [fascinating!] experiences here, for reasons that I understand. Anything about the body can spill over into issues of the bodymind, and then that spills over into spiritual issues, and then that spills over into fairly deep personal matters. So there are sensitivities here.

But this person's story is interesting. I'll summarize it very briefly:

• They were a vegan for many years, but that wasn't really working out for them. They had a 'laundry list' (their own words) of health issues.
• Rather than give up on being a vegan, they went the OTHER way, and became a 100% fruitarian (plus herbs). Their energy skyrocketed. And they report stably being in the greatest health of their life, despite not being in their 20s any more, as the euphemism goes. They don't even take any supplements. They feel no need to. All their health issues have disappeared.
• And as if to put the icing on this cake (bad joke), they even did a 90 (ninety!) day orange juice fast. Nothing else. Just OJ for 3 months. Go figure.

Then they told me this story. I'll copy the report, with the names changed: that of their friend and her husband. It was about the efficacy of dry fasting (no water).

So I listened with some interest. I'd always assumed that dry fasting (a) was unnatural — animals don't do that, though they instinctively stop eating when sick, and (b) wouldn't eliminate toxins, as there was no water-flushing mechanism (via lymph and kidneys) operating or available.

My friend DID tell me, though, that dry fasts are best done in 36 hour installments, no longer — but maybe farily regularly. So (as best I know!) we're NOT talking about 5, 10, 15 day dry fasts. That might not work out so well.

Here's the interesting tale.

~~~

I noticed that a dry fast actually speeds the healing process up. The kidneys open up and the body (because it's not ingesting anything) heals more rapidly). I hear this a lot from people who I know who dry fast for short periods of time and who get very quick results (with healing from symptoms).

My friend Jane had an incredible experience with dry fasting. She burst her appendix around 5 years ago now. She almost died from the complications around the bacteria that flooded all of her bodily organs. It was a really hard time for her because she also had to deal with the after affects of the anesthetics.

And to make matters worse, the doctors initially thought they were dealing with endometriosis, so they opened her up, only to discover nothing amiss. The problem was that when she was initially examined, appendicitis was ruled out. Nothing in her blood tests showed up and no one picked up that her appendix had burst. She was atypical for the symptoms that they usually look for when examining someone.

It wasn't until she was out of post-op, was hungry and had started drinking smoothies that I'd made for her that I realized that something was terribly wrong. She just couldn't hold down the smoothies at all, she was throwing it all up again. I intuited that she had a bowel obstruction (I had seen these symptoms before but because Jane was in a gynecological ward, none of the nursing staff was picking up on it, and she was in a public hospital to boot).

Her husband Alan eventually arrived, and I then talked him into badgering the doctors doing the rounds to get her transferred out of that ward.

Alan had to insist that she be transferred to another medical ward specializing in gastrointestinal issues. A medical team then opened her up again and found that not only did she have a bowel obstruction, but that her body was flooded with the contents of her burst appendix. (Which had become gangrenous before it had eventually burst.) God only knows how she survived that pain because it is supposed to be horrendous.

She was in a terrible state of health and tried everything to get better; water fasting, detoxing through the use of herbs/supplements/charcoal, enemas, acupuncture, juice fasting, sound therapy, light therapy, but nothing was shifting. She was so desperate that she tried anything and everything.

She found a Chinese herbal practitioner who recommended dry fasting, and this was where she learned about dry fasting's healing benefits. She dry fasted every three weeks for 6 months for a period of 36 hours and within six months (without doing anything else), she was actually able to recover completely.

[RunningDeer]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Folks, a friend has asked if I might post something here on their behalf. They're an Avalon member, but they're reluctant to share all their [fascinating!] experiences here, for reasons that I understand.

Thank you, Avalon Member.

This is a good place to re-add my posts on dry fasting that was in response to TargeT's post:

May 20, 2018

1st post:

I tried out the dry fast on April 29th. I went 44 hours. I didn’t follow it 100% because within that time I washed my face, brushed my teeth and had two cups of coffee. If I were to experiment with it again, I’d still do it the same way.

Mentioned in the video was Sergei Ivanovich Filonov. Here's a pdf “Dry medical Fasting - Myths and Reality”. I researched the pros and cons elsewhere as well.

2nd post:

I preferred dry fast to drinking a lot of water. I stumbled across the dry fast info that day and decided to try it without preparation. One major plus was I didn’t experience the body pains like I did with the 8 day water fast. That could be because of several reasons: 1) I didn't go as long as the water fast 2) I've been eating relativity clean for the last couple of years 3) I had gone through a period of turpentine detoxes.

I stopped it at 44 hours because as mentioned I wasn’t prepared emotionally but I was curious to try it. My beliefs about no water got the better of me. If nothing else, I learned that if I did a water fast, I do not need the amount of water I once thought was required.

UPDATE: Many sites report that 1 day of dry fasting is the equivalent of 3 days of water fasting.

[RunningDeer]

Dry Fasting: The Truth About This New Health Industry Trend
{snippets}

The Two Types of Dry Fasting - Just like regular fasting, dry fasting can be intermittent or prolonged.

Intermittent Dry Fasting

You can do an intermittent dry fast by eating and drinking only for a small window of time each day and fasting the remaining hours. The distribution can be:

1. 16/8 intermittent fasting: You’d eat in a window of 8 hours and fast for 16 hours. This is the most common type of intermittent fasting.
2. 20/4 intermittent fasting: You’d eat in a window of 4 hours and fast for 20 hours. This is less common.

The Top 8 Health Benefits of Dry Fasting

Dry fasting can protect your brain, metabolism, and prevent disease through impressive anti-inflammatory effects. Here are the top benefits of fasting without water: (detailed description of each here)

#1: Enhanced Cognitive Function And Protection
#2: High Anti-inflammatory Activity
#3: Balanced Lipids
#4: Glycemic Control
#5: Diabetes Prevention
#6: Lower Blood Pressure
#7: Prevention of Coronary Heart Disease
#8: Bone Health

UPDATE: Many sites report that 1 day of dry fasting is the equivalent of 3 days of water fasting.

[jc71]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Folks, a friend has asked if I might post something here on their behalf. They're an Avalon member, but they're reluctant to share all their [fascinating!] experiences here, for reasons that I understand. Anything about the body can spill over into issues of the bodymind, and then that spills over into spiritual issues, and then that spills over into fairly deep personal matters. So there are sensitivities here.

But this person's story is interesting. I'll summarize it very briefly:

• They were a vegan for many years, but that wasn't really working out for them. They had a 'laundry list' (their own words) of health issues.
• Rather than give up on being a vegan, they went the OTHER way, and became a 100% fruitarian (plus herbs). Their energy skyrocketed. And they report stably being in the greatest health of their life, despite not being in their 20s any more, as the euphemism goes. They don't even take any supplements. They feel no need to. All their health issues have disappeared.
• And as if to put the icing on this cake (bad joke), they even did a 90 (ninety!) day orange juice fast. Nothing else. Just OJ for 3 months. Go figure.

Then they told me this story. I'll copy the report, with the names changed: that of their friend and her husband. It was about the efficacy of dry fasting (no water).

So I listened with some interest. I'd always assumed that dry fasting (a) was unnatural — animals don't do that, though they instinctively stop eating when sick, and (b) wouldn't eliminate toxins, as there was no water-flushing mechanism (via lymph and kidneys) operating or available.

My friend DID tell me, though, that dry fasts are best done in 36 hour installments, no longer — but maybe farily regularly. So (as best I know!) we're NOT talking about 5, 10, 15 day dry fasts. That might not work out so well.

Here's the interesting tale.

~~~

I noticed that a dry fast actually speeds the healing process up. The kidneys open up and the body (because it's not ingesting anything) heals more rapidly). I hear this a lot from people who I know who dry fast for short periods of time and who get very quick results (with healing from symptoms).

My friend Jane had an incredible experience with dry fasting. She burst her appendix around 5 years ago now. She almost died from the complications around the bacteria that flooded all of her bodily organs. It was a really hard time for her because she also had to deal with the after affects of the anesthetics.

And to make matters worse, the doctors initially thought they were dealing with endometriosis, so they opened her up, only to discover nothing amiss. The problem was that when she was initially examined, appendicitis was ruled out. Nothing in her blood tests showed up and no one picked up that her appendix had burst. She was atypical for the symptoms that they usually look for when examining someone.

It wasn't until she was out of post-op, was hungry and had started drinking smoothies that I'd made for her that I realized that something was terribly wrong. She just couldn't hold down the smoothies at all, she was throwing it all up again. I intuited that she had a bowel obstruction (I had seen these symptoms before but because Jane was in a gynecological ward, none of the nursing staff was picking up on it, and she was in a public hospital to boot).

Her husband Alan eventually arrived, and I then talked him into badgering the doctors doing the rounds to get her transferred out of that ward.

Alan had to insist that she be transferred to another medical ward specializing in gastrointestinal issues. A medical team then opened her up again and found that not only did she have a bowel obstruction, but that her body was flooded with the contents of her burst appendix. (Which had become gangrenous before it had eventually burst.) God only knows how she survived that pain because it is supposed to be horrendous.

She was in a terrible state of health and tried everything to get better; water fasting, detoxing through the use of herbs/supplements/charcoal, enemas, acupuncture, juice fasting, sound therapy, light therapy, but nothing was shifting. She was so desperate that she tried anything and everything.

She found a Chinese herbal practitioner who recommended dry fasting, and this was where she learned about dry fasting's healing benefits. She dry fasted every three weeks for 6 months for a period of 36 hours and within six months (without doing anything else), she was actually able to recover completely.

Intriguing...

Do you think you could combine a dry fast with a water fast? For example 1.5 days dry fast, then water fast for 5.5 days, then repeat?

Maybe that will be my next experiment - planning on starting on the 1st with a water fast - but might try a 36 hour dry fast, leading to a water fast....

Anyone want to join me? Doug?

JC

[RunningDeer]

Posted by jc71 (here)
Do you think you could combine a dry fast with a water fast? For example 1.5 days dry fast, then water fast for 5.5 days, then repeat?

Maybe that will be my next experiment - planning on starting on the 1st with a water fast - but might try a 36 hour dry fast, leading to a water fast....

Anyone want to join me? Doug?

JC

My answer would be that you know your life habits better than anyone. Things to consider: whole foods vs. processed foods vs. daily fast food drive-ins. In short, how much cleansing does your body need?

Long term goals?

1. healthy life choices: fasting and/or detox maintenance
2. intermittent damage control from food and drink that tax the body

Some reasons why I fast and detox are:

• create and nourish an environment so that it is self-healing
• cleans the body of environmental toxins
• rid the old cells that are a drain on and age the body
• live a quality life without pain and inflammation
• vanity - still working on reverse aging

Small changes over time net lasting results:

I gave up Ben & Jerry’s one year ago tomorrow. I lost 4.2 lbs. of fat (1.9 kilos), i.e., fat pounds not total weight.

A year ago, according to measurements and a digital body fat weigh scale, I needed to loose 4.7 lbs. (2.1 kilos) and had a BMI of 24.3 (still in the healthy range); as of today, I’m 1 lb. (.4 kilos) away from my goal weight with a BMI of 22.5.

♡

[thepainterdoug]

Hi Running Dear / let me look into it. and let me get into the New Year. maybe I will

[RunningDeer]

If you’re short on time, the first video is 7:29 minutes long. It’s a snippet from the documentary, “Obesity Leads to Death - The Post Mortem”. (also added below) It's tastefully and respectfully produced.

Autopsy On An Obese Woman: Obesity Post-Mortem (7:29 minutes)

Documentary revealing just how dangerous too much fat is to our most vital internal organs. The programme follows a specialist pathology team as they conduct a post-mortem on the body of a 17-stone woman whose body was donated to medical science. Their findings, as they dissect the body and its organs, are startling, exposing the devastating impact of obesity with stunning visuals and fascinating medical facts.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZagG-rXrgPA

Where does abdominal fat accumulate? (Dissection) - 13:30 minutes)

In this dissection of a fat donor, you will take a look at three main places where abdominal fat accumulates: fatty layer of the superficial fascia of the abdominal wall, extraperitoneal layer, and between folds of peritoneum.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Bav_IBsuXEM

Obesity Leads to Death The Post Mortem Full Length 2016 (54 minutes)

A post mortem of an obese individual who donated her body to science for study. The first televised post mortem of an obese person.

Share it for educational and awareness of obesity and the health risks that is associated with this disease. You may not save their lives but you may change their outlook hopefully leading to a changed lifestyle.

This is a unique opportunity to see the effects of obesity to our body under the knife.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=3D6X-EisiQw

[thepainterdoug]

yikes! I'm sure I'm carrying about 3 - 5 lbs of that!! well , I'm going to let the holidays pass, friends visiting etc so as not to set myself up for failure, and then proceed with a fast / will report back , thanks all!!

[TomKat]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Hello, Folks: I wanted to just share a bit of data from my fast (broken today ), and ask for opinions or hypotheses. There were some obvious anomalies that raised my eyebrows and which I'm still not convinced I understand.

Here's the weight-loss graph, in lbs and kg.





Everything was normal and as expected until it started to level out. And then (see my post #293 above) on Day 8 I did a mountain hike (which surprised me! I really was doubtful I'd be able to do it) — and which must have been a 5000 calorie day. (I know calories have little to do with weight control, but I wanted to convey an idea of the workout. I was burning something.)

I was bewildered when my weight went UP after the strenuous hike. I figured it must be water retention... but why? And the water retention must have started to kick in the previous day, too. And then, on or after the hike, that accentuated it. I've done a number of week-or-more fasts (maximum 14 days), and this has never happened before. It's always been pretty much a fairly straight trendline.

I searched on the net, and thee are various health/ fasting/ bodybuilding forums out there. Now and then fasters have reported this, and always ask 'how come?' The response has always been reassuring: "It's just water retention, it'll sort itself out, and who knows what the body's doing or why."

That wasn't enough for me. I couldn't find any research articles about this, and so I started to talk to my body. I figured my body might know. This was all last night, just before I broke the fast.

I did a visualization: I imagined (in all its delicious glory!) a huge buffet spread of everything one might imagine, the kind you'd see for lunch at a 5 star hotel. It had salads, potatoes, rice, vegetables of all kinds, breads, fish, meats, eggs, cheeses, fruit, yogurts and sugary desserts. And to drink there were all kinds of juices, tea, coffee, milk, and all sorts.

I asked my body what it wanted. MEAT AND FISH, it said. (Loudly! ) I asked it: Fruit? Juice? Veg? And it said: NO. MEAT AND FISH. AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, PLEASE.

That was really interesting. The response seemed vivid. This is hardly science! But I figured it must mean something. Of course, this is problematic, because to break a fast with a bunch of high protein is asking for trouble. One has to break it gently with easy-to-digest stuff like soft fruits and juices.

But my body clearly needed protein. My GUESS — and it's only a guess — is that I was starting to break down muscle (having run out of easily accessible fat — especially during the hike), and that somehow metabolically triggered the water retention.

But I can't find any data to substantiate that. It's just a personal guess.

If this is correct, then it's important, because it means that if one's weight loss when fasting starts to plateau, or even increase — then STOP.

Many posting here know a lot about fasting (likely more than I do!) and so I sincerely welcome feedback, information and ideas. Thanks!

Don't argue with your body, it always wins.
Science says that to get rid of a candida infection, you're supposed starve it of sugar and carbs. But there was a guy on youtube who says he did that and everything else, and the thing that got rid of it was starving the body of fat and eating exclusively sugar and carbs.

[5th]

I haven't read through the other 15 pages of this post but dry fasting and the weight gain caught my eye here.

I've done 3 days on just water and then a 4 day fry fast when I was becoming breatharian. At the end of the 3rd day dry fast something changed in my body and I suddenly had a lot of energy and felt much better - in fact I went on a very fast non-stop 10k walk. Breatharians would say this is when the Prana Engine in our bodies is turned on and we no longer need to eat.

OK, many of you won't believe it's possible to live healthily for years without food and I certainly didn't. I find it funny that even some friends don't believe me when I obviously have personal proof for myself. Dry fasting is interesting because eventually (after about 3 days) the body starts to use the 'deep water' in the organs, bones and tissues and there is some evidence that this is where repressed traumas are stored. I have heard stories of people going through breatharian training releasing serious traumas and their lives being transformed as a result.

It's certainly possible to go a week without water in a bone dry climate and some breatharians who live in humid climates can go a great deal longer, maybe indefinitely. I think the fact that we can become breatharian is possibly the ultimate proof that we create our own reality and even the 'need to eat' is just programming (there's no point in any scientists out there giving a logical proof that it's impossible).

So weight gain without food or water is possible and I know of body builders who are breatharian and not just a well-known fake one on Youtube!

In practice almost all we breatharians eat fairly regularly because we still enjoy food and it's such a big social thing but it loses its importance and you realise that food is genuinely an addiction - practically everyone eats far more than necessary. I say 'necessary' because obviously the average person does need to eat and their belief system is that they will die without eating but you can adopt (with proof) another belief system. I can happily go a day without food which is something extraordinary for most people but obviously it should be no big deal. Again, this reflects attitude rather than bodily need.

Possibly the most convincing proof of breatharianism is the Israeli documentary done on Ray Maor who in a controlled environment went seven days without food or water and a daily blood test showed no changed. This had the doctor baffled...

Anyone interested can find this and other Ray Maor videos on Youtube.

Of course, this spills over into health and diet and I can't help but be amused by people obsessing over healthy food, vitamins and minerals and what diet to cure which disease. Yes, at one level it is important but ultimately it really is 'all in the mind'. All illness is caused by energy loss due to leaking emotional energy and a person will find themselves lacking in some vitamin or mineral because of this (complex system of energy exchange in the body robbing the immune system, effecting digestion, etc). So, while doctors prescribe a pill, the next level is to supplement the diet. After that, the next level is to find and cure the emotional cause and ultimately we don't need a 'good diet' at all...

I may be breatharian but I am well known for saying (with some truth) that the purpose of life is coffee and cake!

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by 5th (here)
I may be breatharian but I am well known for saying (with some truth) that the purpose of life is coffee and cake!

THANKS, and that's more than fascinating. Do please copy this to the existing breatharian thread here, which you may not be aware of:

• Breatharianism, and living on Prana: a how-to guide

[James Newell]

I have done many fasts over the years. I started in the 1980's with the lemonade diet. Where you live on lemon juice, water, and maple syrup and cayenne pepper. I usually do it for 10 days. The first day is the worse as far as aches and headaches.You add a salt water drink in the morning to eliminate the toxins faster.

Once or twice a year I have been doing these. I'm 69 now and health seems good and not on one drug. And I think it has helped to do this over a lifetime.

Last year I did my first water fasts. I think the first one was for 3 days. And the 2nd time was over a week.

I think in many respects I like the water fasts better than the lemonade diet. Although on the lemonade diet I have done much work and exercise with no loss of energy. In fact your energy level is quite high on that diet. I get tired of no chewing and life seems much better with a few sweeties and some good coffee.

I think the worse for me is on the 6th or 8th day I get achy teeth. So I have decided to supplement my diets/fasts with liquid mineral solutions and sometimes calcium and that seems to handle the teeth thing.

All this talk about fasting has made me think it is time to do another one. And I may try the dry fasting technique, probably after I have stabilized on the water fast. I have read how some monks live on sunlight and air for many months sitting on the mountain tops in the snow.

I probably won't be doing that for a while.

[jc71]

Hi all,

I started a fast yesterday, so about 30 hours in now. I thought I would try the "Dry Fast" idea for the first day, and that has been fine so far. I am just about to have a first drink of water or black coffee, but the dry fasting part has actually been a breeze and I think probably a better way to start a water fast. Let's see what happens after I start taking in liquids.

Will keep you posted of any interesting developments

JC

[jc71]

Hi All,

Just to encourage anyone else who has started a fast, or is contemplating it, I am now 3 days (about 78 hours) in to the fast, having done 30+ hours as a dry fast, then the rest as water and black coffee.

A quick tip for anyone who hasn't read the whole of the thread is that I find it is good to take 10 turns of rocksalt from a dispenser and just put that in a glass with cold water, and quickly wash it all down (takes 10 seconds and you don't taste it too much). This helps to ward off any headaches.

So far I have had no headaches, feel great, have lost 11 lbs! (I know that is hard to believe, but the scales don't lie - we have commented on this before that my body tends to retain water, so there is quite a lot of water weight lost at the beginning for me).

I have been recording the weight steps on a chart, and I will post that at some point, maybe in a few day's time.

That's it - all good so far!

JC